![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Anybody interested in merging Template:lang-de-AT into Template:lang-de? Please join discussion by clicking the above heading. -- George Ho ( talk) 20:33, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
First of all, there's the article on the Proto-Philippine language, which is a strange jumble of Old Tagalog (in Baybayin script!) and bits and pieces of information about the real Proto-Philippine language. The Old Tagalog article has some of the same issues perpetrated by the same contributor.
And then there's Kolarian, whose only references are an 1878 work on languages of India and an encyclopedia of religion written by an author who died in 1922. Someone who knows something about the history of Austroasiatic-language studies needs to tie it in to all the developments that have happened since the days they were inventing things like the telephone and the automobile. Someone also needs to fix the article on Jharkhand, which links to it. Chuck Entz ( talk) 06:19, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
Not sure exactly where I can make requests like this, but I'll take a shot here.
At Old Town Chinatown, Portland, Oregon § Translation of street names, I added Yale romanizations of the Cantonese street names. I used this tool to get them. But I don't know Cantonese, and I'm not sure my results are all that great. Some characters listed a couple different romanizations, and I don't know which ones are correct in the context. Don't know the locally preferred pronunciation either, if that's a factor. I'm not even sure Yale is the best choice in the first place. Help? — Athelwulf [T]/ [C] 03:12, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Hi everyone. I'm new here, but I want to raise a question about Bahasa Indonesia & Malay language. Despite this language is combine into one for their similarity, I'm shocked to find out the numbers is far from reality. For example, Bahasa Indonesia is a compulsory to be learned by all citizen of Indonesia from the very young age of 7 years old (when you enter primary school at 1st grade) or younger, if you started with Pre-school or Kindergarden. This is a compulsory language that every citizen must able to speak and use officially to communicate with anyone else within the country. Knowing this, I wondered how come the population of nearly 250million as per Wikipedia estimation ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Indonesia#Population)with a note of literacy level of 92.81% ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Indonesia#Literacy) of the population, which means those are individuals age over 15 and can read and write. What language are they reading and write, other than Bahasa Indonesia? This is the only and main language being taught in all the school all over Indonesia, with additional English, Mandarin or Arabic being taught individually as per school preference. It is a compulsory for all Indonesian citizen to go through the basic 12 years education, and even if they are unable to finish their basic education, they at least able to learn and converse fluently in Bahasa Indonesia as this is a common language use among all Indonesian, besides their own race language (e.g Javanese, Bataknese, Manadonese, etc). Based on this information itself, the number is already exceeding the 250million marks, and it is not yet includes Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei and part of Thailand where this language is also used by the locals there. Therefore, I would like to question this information, as it is totally an error that needs to be replaced immediately, considering that Bahasa Indonesia & Malay language by native speaker is already more than the 6th language position in this list. And we are just base on the number of Bahasa Indonesia native speaker only. Thank you all for the assistance and I look forward to hear from you. Cheers. David.sinsuw ( talk) 15:05, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes indeed, Indonesia have many different local language. Some of them is big enough to be mentioned in wikipedia, such as javanese or sundanese. However, Bahasa Indonesia is widely used by every citizen of Indonesia to communicate between the tribes and race in Indonesia. That is why we called it the uniting language, as everyone is speaking and understanding this main language as a common ways of communication above our own local dialects and tribe/race languages. You will be surprised that some part of Indonesia also speaks chinese, dutch, portuguese very well, but they also a native speaker of Bahasa Indonesia which is the national language. That is why I raised the question in the 1st place as I'm new in here and noticed that this information is not being updated for years, despite the other part of wikipedia are providing the facts that supporting my statement and questions on Bahasa Indonesia being spoken by more people than what is originally written in this wiki. David.sinsuw ( talk) 15:21, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Could we decide to make Leipzig glossing rules the standard for glosses in linguistic examples in articles about languages? That would be a good step towards standardizing our coverage and making it coherent with the standard in linguistic description. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 15:17, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej ( talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
Hi. I'm asking for the community's assistance on Ryulong ( talk · contribs)'s mass deletion of language articles:
where I contributed substantially, mostly on classification and phonology, using a dozen of published sources (some of which are available online). This is the most violent series of actions I have ever seen since I joined Wikipedia in 2003.
Ryulong sees Wikipedia quite differently from us. He believes that just labeling some edits as a "fringe theory" justifies mass deletion. There are so many factors behind his misconduct that there appears no hope that he would amend his behavior.
This only happens in Wikipedia. In academics, he would never get his paper accepted in a peer-reviewed journal. In an OSS community, those who cannot write code are naturally excluded from decision-making processes. Wikipedia is the exception. However stupid things he does, no compiler or runtime automatically raises errors or exceptions. The only thing we can rely on is eyeballs. That's why I need the community's help.
The motivation behind his misconduct is unclear, but it is certainly related to his weird obsession with promoting his own amateurish romanization scheme in Wikipedia and applying it to spoken languages he does not know at all. He is doing this without even knowing how many vowels they have. He attempts to limit the development of related articles to the level that he can understand. By doing so, he tries to prevent readers from realizing that his romanization scheme is useless and rather harmful. Of course, he has no right to own articles. Besides, it poses practical problems as his level of understanding is miserably poor.
I feel sorry for embroiling experts into the trouble as things involving Ryulong are destined to be unproductive. Life is short. We would like to use our limited free time better. But it's time to end the disaster. -- Nanshu ( talk) 12:04, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
Key points first:
Back to the discussion. Since we discuss mass removal of language articles by Ryulong, the correct way to read Ryulong's comments is to repeat the following question for each statement: does this justify mass removal? Mass removal of content with reliable sources is a serious action. He must demonstrate a lot to fill the huge logical gaps. For example:
Unfortunately he didn't.
You may also notice that he cites no reliable sources to support his bold claim (except the stupid Google test for minority languages with virtually no English sources). He believes that his personal, unsourced opinion overrides reliable sources. This clearly violated Wikipedia's key policy. For the sake of convenience, I list the sources I cited below. To demonstrate that I misrepresent a fringe theory as being mainstream, Ryulong must proves that each of them or my citation represents a fringe theory. Also, following Wikipedia's normal process, he is obliged to show the community why each of them must be removed completely. He has a lot to do to defend his violent action.
{{
cite journal}}
: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |journal=
(
help){{
cite book}}
: Explicit use of et al. in: |editor=
(
help)-- Nanshu ( talk) 11:33, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
Ryulong made an astonishing assertion in the ANI: "There is also a growing consensus at WT:LANG that supports my actions" [14]. So let me check whether his assertion is true.
Question 1: Do you support Ryulong's opinion that we shouldn't have articles of their own for Tokunoshima, Okinoerabu, etc?
Question 2: Do you support Ryulong's opinion that materials added by Nanshu should be removed?
WP:NOTDEM. Straw polls should not stand in for proper discussion. This is ridiculous. Nanshu, just accept that your articles weren't up to par and your bold edit got reverted. Stop making this all about yourself and your "feud" with me. There are little to no sources supporting the existence or separate coverage of Tokunoshima from Amami, Okinoerabu and Yoron from Kunigami, or renaming Kunigami to "Northern Okinawan". You took 7 written pages per subject each and spun that out into lengthy articles that feature IPA tables that I cannot for the life of me figure out are even supported by some of the cited sources. Stop forum sohpping. Stop canvassing people to support you.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 17:20, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Well, thank you for your participation. It's now clear that no one supports his mass removal of content with reliables sources is not supported. The remaining question is how to organize the content. Now I restored content removed by Ryulong. You may
propose deletion per an ANI suggestion,
request moves if you disagree with page titles I chose,
question reliability of sources I cited, and of course, you can edit them. All these things can be done without mass-removing content with reliable sources. Follow Wikipedia's standardized procedures. --
Nanshu (
talk)
01:10, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
There seem implicit merge proposals in this discussion. For a constructive discussion, I request for a concrete alternative.
The following is my understanding of the current situation, which I outlined in Amami–Okinawan languages. There are two consensus trees (supported by multiple sources, I mean). I assign a unique number to each entity because terminology is far from standardized. [CONFLICT] indicates that the entity is not supported by the other hypothesis. Underlined are the languages with articles of their own in Nanshu's proposal.
1. Two-subdivision hypothesis (relatively old but recently reevaluated by Pellard (2010))
2. Three-subdivision hypothesis (relatively new but now challenged by Pellard (2010))
Note the positions of Okinoerabu and Yoron. Their lowest common ancestor among the two hypotheses is 00 Amami–Okinawan / Northern Ryukyuan. I think having separate articles for them is a much easier way to organize information than placing everything into the higher entity.
BTW, I'm a bit surprised by the fact that Pellard (2010) is supported by others. Is it only because he is one of two editors of the new book? I thought computational phylogenetics was extremely unpopular among linguists. -- Nanshu ( talk) 01:10, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
Nanshu, there is no consensus for your vast changes to these pages. Stop taking what has happened here (your carefully worded questions to get people to only have one answer) as an example as a consensus in your favor. Stop heavily rewriting Amami language, Kunigami language, and Okinawan languages to suit your agenda.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 13:28, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
Please take a look at the maps File:Europe germanic-languages 2.PNG and File:Lenguas germánicas.PNG. They are made by a spanish contributor, and has recently been discussed at Commons ( here, here and here), even as a deletion proposal.
Fobos92's maps have no given sources, and seem to build on "The general strategy of the map seems to be that a majority language is not shown in an area as soon as there is also some kind of other minority language there. In so far, the map might even be saved by giving the right kind of explanations, but the whole strategy doesn't make sense IMHO, and any explanations are going to look confusing." (as one user said in the deletion discussion) As far as i know, that is not a common method when mapping languages.
The remaining questions (after solving problems concerning Scandinavia) are: don't they speak english in Wales? Don't they speak scots/english in Western Scotland? My opinion is that these maps should show all of Scotland and Wales as scots/english speaking territory.
I invite other users to help me supply better maps, to add better sources to the discussion, or to help me to convince Fobos92 to make better maps. Bw -- Orland ( talk) 18:05, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
Here you are. No one gave any comments last time, so I'm taking another crack at it. If there's anything that would make you object to this being a featured article, please, say it now! Tezero ( talk) 00:45, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
Some Help:IPA for x pages have been nominated for deletion. I was not the nominator, but noticed the nomination and thought a link should be provided here. Visit the nomination page for more information. — Eru· tuon 00:17, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Greetings. There is an ongoing content dispute at Spanish profanity regarding the removal of unsourced entries. At the moment, there are very few editors involved, so assessing consensus is difficult. Your thoughts on the matter would be much appreciated. 0x0077BE ( talk · contrib) 13:53, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
There's a scanned copy of a Latin grammar book at Wikisource: s:en:Index:The New Latin Primer (Postgate).djvu It needs to be proofread and formatted. Proofreading at Wikisource isn't very difficult, especially if you're working on the yellow "proofread" pages, which just need a double-check. It's possible that someone who reads Latin would find that easy to do. I posted this at WikiProject Latin, but they're not very active, so I thought I'd look here for other people who might enjoy this and/or want to brush up on their Latin grammar. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 21:05, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
A while ago, we had a discussion about adding the category of importance to WPLANG templates. Later, this category was removed from the WPLANG project page overview. Given that such a category is indeed difficult to justify from a typological perspective and is presumably more often used to express general conceit / deference than anything else, I propose that the template be reformatted in a way that "importance" is no longer shown on individual article talk pages. Moreover, I propose that a bot should remove the relevant text passage from every web page within the scope of our project, so that nobody can take offense from it (or resurrect it without some effort). I would like to know the opinion of the other editors involved. If there is agreement on this point, I'd also wonder who could take charge of the bot. G Purevdorj ( talk) 09:16, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
Personally, I'd rather keep it but simply provide very clear and consistent instructions about what kinds of subjects get what rating, like the Video games WikiProject, where most of my editing takes place, does. We could, for example, mandate that all national or de facto national languages of states recognized by the UN (not a perfect standard, but would help with disputes over, say, Montenegrin, Scottish Gaelic, and any number of Native American languages with their own tribal jurisdictions) be Top-importance. Tezero ( talk) 03:21, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
afternoon wikipediA, l am kawaya Anthony petulu one of those tribe called Ngangela or nyemba. first of all are found wrong information to explain to the world about our tribe, has lm speaking to you now lets me highlight some point. Who is Vanyemba or Nyemba. The Name Nyemba come from to our Dialect tribe called Vanyemba vamaxuaka,Then some Ethnic group like Kwangali people they fail to pronounce the word Vanyemba Vamaxuaka, Then what They did is they cut the name in half Vanyemba, then they leave maxuaka Out,Those days all of us we fall under one name Vambunda tribe but we have various cluster in Vambunda,Thats how our for father live up to were Portuguese colonial come in to Give us that Name Ngangela which it confuse every thing,Simple Question l have who is the king or the Queen of the Ngangela people, The answer will be zero,Then to comeback to the Name Vanyemba, Vanyemba is The name called the mbunda people who migrate from Angola in the time of Portuguese colonial rigime and the civil war of Angola which lead to independence of Angola, wereby a huge number of Mbunda or known by Nyemba cross to Namibia some to Zambia,Then come to Namibia this people of Namibia they cant call all Mbunda people or Vanyemba vamaxuaka to them is dificult wereby the choose to call us Nyembas,in didItalic text-- Kawaya kawaya ( talk) 15:38, 3 December 2014 (UTC) our parent they expt the name even us the youth we expt it,one Question you ask how many tribe is there in Vanyemba. in Vanyemba you found,Vambwela,Vambunda Nkangala,Vangojelo,Vasheya,Valuchazi,Vanyemba vamaxuaka, which mean this tribe just one they can understand each other without any translation when we talk to each other, Then Chokwe and Luvale when they Talk we can understand each other but l cant answer him in his language but l can respond him/her in any nyemba language he/she can here without translate, that's how we related, some Example among our self language in Mbwela we said; Ndjove,Nkangala said Ove means You, Then we go in Luchazi; mavu, in ngojelo Mavu too means soil, then in mbwela Livu, but we can understand each other without any doubt, therefore l hope those people who write those book which you hold in your office they conduct wrong people to give the the correct information. We are Namibia Nyemba no more Angolan people.
I would like to propose that we stop implying on language pages that grammar includes morphology and syntax, and does not include phonology. I realise this was briefly discussed eight years ago, but I don't think it was exactly satisfactorily resolved. In linguistics, which is surely the relevant discipline, it is standard to regard phonology as part of grammar. And I disagree with the apparent assertion that the average reader has a strong sense that grammar includes morphology and syntax, but not phonology, and will be confused by seeing phonology included under it, or by seeing "morphology and syntax" instead of "grammar". If we were basing our policy on what the average reader understands by "grammar", then we should probably include all sorts of prescriptive beliefs, plus orthographical conventions. Thankfully we don't do that. Garik ( talk) 13:41, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I share the goal of making articles accessible to a wide audience. I wasn't aware of the tradition of descriptive linguistics (aside from what I gather reading grammars of ancient languages, which might count as coming from the very beginning of descriptive linguistics). I was responding not to you, but to Garik's statement that grammar is phonology, morphology, and syntax — this sounds reminiscent of Chomskyan theories that I learned about in my syntax courses, which are based on the "theory specific" definition of grammar that I mentioned, although I could be wrong.
My point is to agree with including phonology in "grammar", along with several other elements of language description. To me it makes sense to group the sections describing the internal workings of a language together. That in my mind would include the writing system and lexical characteristics as well as phonology, morphology, and syntax, and some phonetics and semantics as they relate to the other parts of the system. Perhaps the sections could be grouped together under a different title than "grammar". My point of view is probably a bit atypical, though, coming more from familiarity with the grammars of ancient languages than modern descriptive linguistics. — Eru· tuon 02:31, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi! I started a topic in WikiProject Latin on whether small caps should be used for Classical Latin text in Latin spelling and pronunciation. Members of WikiProject Languages, especially (but not exclusively) those with interest in Latin, are welcome to head over there and comment if they have an opinion. The question needs resolving, and may warrant a poll, although I don't know how to start one myself. — Eru· tuon 23:58, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Hello linguists. A new editor today added a "phonological description" for the French pronunciation at the start of the Citroën DS article. I've tried to apply the IPAc-en template to this new addition, but only get "unsupported input" expressed; is someone here able to take a look? I'm not sure if I'm making a formatting error or if the new editor has made mistakes with the IPA symbols. Thanks. PaleCloudedWhite ( talk) 23:40, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
Hello everyone!
You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!
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Harej ( talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
Ongoing edit-war over gutting the contents, bad phrasing, and unref'd claims (I'm not sure speaking Spanish is part of speaking "Congo"). It could be better sourced anyway. — kwami ( talk) 20:39, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Anybody interested in merging Template:lang-de-AT into Template:lang-de? Please join discussion by clicking the above heading. -- George Ho ( talk) 20:33, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
First of all, there's the article on the Proto-Philippine language, which is a strange jumble of Old Tagalog (in Baybayin script!) and bits and pieces of information about the real Proto-Philippine language. The Old Tagalog article has some of the same issues perpetrated by the same contributor.
And then there's Kolarian, whose only references are an 1878 work on languages of India and an encyclopedia of religion written by an author who died in 1922. Someone who knows something about the history of Austroasiatic-language studies needs to tie it in to all the developments that have happened since the days they were inventing things like the telephone and the automobile. Someone also needs to fix the article on Jharkhand, which links to it. Chuck Entz ( talk) 06:19, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
Not sure exactly where I can make requests like this, but I'll take a shot here.
At Old Town Chinatown, Portland, Oregon § Translation of street names, I added Yale romanizations of the Cantonese street names. I used this tool to get them. But I don't know Cantonese, and I'm not sure my results are all that great. Some characters listed a couple different romanizations, and I don't know which ones are correct in the context. Don't know the locally preferred pronunciation either, if that's a factor. I'm not even sure Yale is the best choice in the first place. Help? — Athelwulf [T]/ [C] 03:12, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Hi everyone. I'm new here, but I want to raise a question about Bahasa Indonesia & Malay language. Despite this language is combine into one for their similarity, I'm shocked to find out the numbers is far from reality. For example, Bahasa Indonesia is a compulsory to be learned by all citizen of Indonesia from the very young age of 7 years old (when you enter primary school at 1st grade) or younger, if you started with Pre-school or Kindergarden. This is a compulsory language that every citizen must able to speak and use officially to communicate with anyone else within the country. Knowing this, I wondered how come the population of nearly 250million as per Wikipedia estimation ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Indonesia#Population)with a note of literacy level of 92.81% ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Indonesia#Literacy) of the population, which means those are individuals age over 15 and can read and write. What language are they reading and write, other than Bahasa Indonesia? This is the only and main language being taught in all the school all over Indonesia, with additional English, Mandarin or Arabic being taught individually as per school preference. It is a compulsory for all Indonesian citizen to go through the basic 12 years education, and even if they are unable to finish their basic education, they at least able to learn and converse fluently in Bahasa Indonesia as this is a common language use among all Indonesian, besides their own race language (e.g Javanese, Bataknese, Manadonese, etc). Based on this information itself, the number is already exceeding the 250million marks, and it is not yet includes Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei and part of Thailand where this language is also used by the locals there. Therefore, I would like to question this information, as it is totally an error that needs to be replaced immediately, considering that Bahasa Indonesia & Malay language by native speaker is already more than the 6th language position in this list. And we are just base on the number of Bahasa Indonesia native speaker only. Thank you all for the assistance and I look forward to hear from you. Cheers. David.sinsuw ( talk) 15:05, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes indeed, Indonesia have many different local language. Some of them is big enough to be mentioned in wikipedia, such as javanese or sundanese. However, Bahasa Indonesia is widely used by every citizen of Indonesia to communicate between the tribes and race in Indonesia. That is why we called it the uniting language, as everyone is speaking and understanding this main language as a common ways of communication above our own local dialects and tribe/race languages. You will be surprised that some part of Indonesia also speaks chinese, dutch, portuguese very well, but they also a native speaker of Bahasa Indonesia which is the national language. That is why I raised the question in the 1st place as I'm new in here and noticed that this information is not being updated for years, despite the other part of wikipedia are providing the facts that supporting my statement and questions on Bahasa Indonesia being spoken by more people than what is originally written in this wiki. David.sinsuw ( talk) 15:21, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Could we decide to make Leipzig glossing rules the standard for glosses in linguistic examples in articles about languages? That would be a good step towards standardizing our coverage and making it coherent with the standard in linguistic description. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 15:17, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej ( talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
Hi. I'm asking for the community's assistance on Ryulong ( talk · contribs)'s mass deletion of language articles:
where I contributed substantially, mostly on classification and phonology, using a dozen of published sources (some of which are available online). This is the most violent series of actions I have ever seen since I joined Wikipedia in 2003.
Ryulong sees Wikipedia quite differently from us. He believes that just labeling some edits as a "fringe theory" justifies mass deletion. There are so many factors behind his misconduct that there appears no hope that he would amend his behavior.
This only happens in Wikipedia. In academics, he would never get his paper accepted in a peer-reviewed journal. In an OSS community, those who cannot write code are naturally excluded from decision-making processes. Wikipedia is the exception. However stupid things he does, no compiler or runtime automatically raises errors or exceptions. The only thing we can rely on is eyeballs. That's why I need the community's help.
The motivation behind his misconduct is unclear, but it is certainly related to his weird obsession with promoting his own amateurish romanization scheme in Wikipedia and applying it to spoken languages he does not know at all. He is doing this without even knowing how many vowels they have. He attempts to limit the development of related articles to the level that he can understand. By doing so, he tries to prevent readers from realizing that his romanization scheme is useless and rather harmful. Of course, he has no right to own articles. Besides, it poses practical problems as his level of understanding is miserably poor.
I feel sorry for embroiling experts into the trouble as things involving Ryulong are destined to be unproductive. Life is short. We would like to use our limited free time better. But it's time to end the disaster. -- Nanshu ( talk) 12:04, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
Key points first:
Back to the discussion. Since we discuss mass removal of language articles by Ryulong, the correct way to read Ryulong's comments is to repeat the following question for each statement: does this justify mass removal? Mass removal of content with reliable sources is a serious action. He must demonstrate a lot to fill the huge logical gaps. For example:
Unfortunately he didn't.
You may also notice that he cites no reliable sources to support his bold claim (except the stupid Google test for minority languages with virtually no English sources). He believes that his personal, unsourced opinion overrides reliable sources. This clearly violated Wikipedia's key policy. For the sake of convenience, I list the sources I cited below. To demonstrate that I misrepresent a fringe theory as being mainstream, Ryulong must proves that each of them or my citation represents a fringe theory. Also, following Wikipedia's normal process, he is obliged to show the community why each of them must be removed completely. He has a lot to do to defend his violent action.
{{
cite journal}}
: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |journal=
(
help){{
cite book}}
: Explicit use of et al. in: |editor=
(
help)-- Nanshu ( talk) 11:33, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
Ryulong made an astonishing assertion in the ANI: "There is also a growing consensus at WT:LANG that supports my actions" [14]. So let me check whether his assertion is true.
Question 1: Do you support Ryulong's opinion that we shouldn't have articles of their own for Tokunoshima, Okinoerabu, etc?
Question 2: Do you support Ryulong's opinion that materials added by Nanshu should be removed?
WP:NOTDEM. Straw polls should not stand in for proper discussion. This is ridiculous. Nanshu, just accept that your articles weren't up to par and your bold edit got reverted. Stop making this all about yourself and your "feud" with me. There are little to no sources supporting the existence or separate coverage of Tokunoshima from Amami, Okinoerabu and Yoron from Kunigami, or renaming Kunigami to "Northern Okinawan". You took 7 written pages per subject each and spun that out into lengthy articles that feature IPA tables that I cannot for the life of me figure out are even supported by some of the cited sources. Stop forum sohpping. Stop canvassing people to support you.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 17:20, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Well, thank you for your participation. It's now clear that no one supports his mass removal of content with reliables sources is not supported. The remaining question is how to organize the content. Now I restored content removed by Ryulong. You may
propose deletion per an ANI suggestion,
request moves if you disagree with page titles I chose,
question reliability of sources I cited, and of course, you can edit them. All these things can be done without mass-removing content with reliable sources. Follow Wikipedia's standardized procedures. --
Nanshu (
talk)
01:10, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
There seem implicit merge proposals in this discussion. For a constructive discussion, I request for a concrete alternative.
The following is my understanding of the current situation, which I outlined in Amami–Okinawan languages. There are two consensus trees (supported by multiple sources, I mean). I assign a unique number to each entity because terminology is far from standardized. [CONFLICT] indicates that the entity is not supported by the other hypothesis. Underlined are the languages with articles of their own in Nanshu's proposal.
1. Two-subdivision hypothesis (relatively old but recently reevaluated by Pellard (2010))
2. Three-subdivision hypothesis (relatively new but now challenged by Pellard (2010))
Note the positions of Okinoerabu and Yoron. Their lowest common ancestor among the two hypotheses is 00 Amami–Okinawan / Northern Ryukyuan. I think having separate articles for them is a much easier way to organize information than placing everything into the higher entity.
BTW, I'm a bit surprised by the fact that Pellard (2010) is supported by others. Is it only because he is one of two editors of the new book? I thought computational phylogenetics was extremely unpopular among linguists. -- Nanshu ( talk) 01:10, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
Nanshu, there is no consensus for your vast changes to these pages. Stop taking what has happened here (your carefully worded questions to get people to only have one answer) as an example as a consensus in your favor. Stop heavily rewriting Amami language, Kunigami language, and Okinawan languages to suit your agenda.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 13:28, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
Please take a look at the maps File:Europe germanic-languages 2.PNG and File:Lenguas germánicas.PNG. They are made by a spanish contributor, and has recently been discussed at Commons ( here, here and here), even as a deletion proposal.
Fobos92's maps have no given sources, and seem to build on "The general strategy of the map seems to be that a majority language is not shown in an area as soon as there is also some kind of other minority language there. In so far, the map might even be saved by giving the right kind of explanations, but the whole strategy doesn't make sense IMHO, and any explanations are going to look confusing." (as one user said in the deletion discussion) As far as i know, that is not a common method when mapping languages.
The remaining questions (after solving problems concerning Scandinavia) are: don't they speak english in Wales? Don't they speak scots/english in Western Scotland? My opinion is that these maps should show all of Scotland and Wales as scots/english speaking territory.
I invite other users to help me supply better maps, to add better sources to the discussion, or to help me to convince Fobos92 to make better maps. Bw -- Orland ( talk) 18:05, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
Here you are. No one gave any comments last time, so I'm taking another crack at it. If there's anything that would make you object to this being a featured article, please, say it now! Tezero ( talk) 00:45, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
Some Help:IPA for x pages have been nominated for deletion. I was not the nominator, but noticed the nomination and thought a link should be provided here. Visit the nomination page for more information. — Eru· tuon 00:17, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Greetings. There is an ongoing content dispute at Spanish profanity regarding the removal of unsourced entries. At the moment, there are very few editors involved, so assessing consensus is difficult. Your thoughts on the matter would be much appreciated. 0x0077BE ( talk · contrib) 13:53, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
There's a scanned copy of a Latin grammar book at Wikisource: s:en:Index:The New Latin Primer (Postgate).djvu It needs to be proofread and formatted. Proofreading at Wikisource isn't very difficult, especially if you're working on the yellow "proofread" pages, which just need a double-check. It's possible that someone who reads Latin would find that easy to do. I posted this at WikiProject Latin, but they're not very active, so I thought I'd look here for other people who might enjoy this and/or want to brush up on their Latin grammar. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 21:05, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
A while ago, we had a discussion about adding the category of importance to WPLANG templates. Later, this category was removed from the WPLANG project page overview. Given that such a category is indeed difficult to justify from a typological perspective and is presumably more often used to express general conceit / deference than anything else, I propose that the template be reformatted in a way that "importance" is no longer shown on individual article talk pages. Moreover, I propose that a bot should remove the relevant text passage from every web page within the scope of our project, so that nobody can take offense from it (or resurrect it without some effort). I would like to know the opinion of the other editors involved. If there is agreement on this point, I'd also wonder who could take charge of the bot. G Purevdorj ( talk) 09:16, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
Personally, I'd rather keep it but simply provide very clear and consistent instructions about what kinds of subjects get what rating, like the Video games WikiProject, where most of my editing takes place, does. We could, for example, mandate that all national or de facto national languages of states recognized by the UN (not a perfect standard, but would help with disputes over, say, Montenegrin, Scottish Gaelic, and any number of Native American languages with their own tribal jurisdictions) be Top-importance. Tezero ( talk) 03:21, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
afternoon wikipediA, l am kawaya Anthony petulu one of those tribe called Ngangela or nyemba. first of all are found wrong information to explain to the world about our tribe, has lm speaking to you now lets me highlight some point. Who is Vanyemba or Nyemba. The Name Nyemba come from to our Dialect tribe called Vanyemba vamaxuaka,Then some Ethnic group like Kwangali people they fail to pronounce the word Vanyemba Vamaxuaka, Then what They did is they cut the name in half Vanyemba, then they leave maxuaka Out,Those days all of us we fall under one name Vambunda tribe but we have various cluster in Vambunda,Thats how our for father live up to were Portuguese colonial come in to Give us that Name Ngangela which it confuse every thing,Simple Question l have who is the king or the Queen of the Ngangela people, The answer will be zero,Then to comeback to the Name Vanyemba, Vanyemba is The name called the mbunda people who migrate from Angola in the time of Portuguese colonial rigime and the civil war of Angola which lead to independence of Angola, wereby a huge number of Mbunda or known by Nyemba cross to Namibia some to Zambia,Then come to Namibia this people of Namibia they cant call all Mbunda people or Vanyemba vamaxuaka to them is dificult wereby the choose to call us Nyembas,in didItalic text-- Kawaya kawaya ( talk) 15:38, 3 December 2014 (UTC) our parent they expt the name even us the youth we expt it,one Question you ask how many tribe is there in Vanyemba. in Vanyemba you found,Vambwela,Vambunda Nkangala,Vangojelo,Vasheya,Valuchazi,Vanyemba vamaxuaka, which mean this tribe just one they can understand each other without any translation when we talk to each other, Then Chokwe and Luvale when they Talk we can understand each other but l cant answer him in his language but l can respond him/her in any nyemba language he/she can here without translate, that's how we related, some Example among our self language in Mbwela we said; Ndjove,Nkangala said Ove means You, Then we go in Luchazi; mavu, in ngojelo Mavu too means soil, then in mbwela Livu, but we can understand each other without any doubt, therefore l hope those people who write those book which you hold in your office they conduct wrong people to give the the correct information. We are Namibia Nyemba no more Angolan people.
I would like to propose that we stop implying on language pages that grammar includes morphology and syntax, and does not include phonology. I realise this was briefly discussed eight years ago, but I don't think it was exactly satisfactorily resolved. In linguistics, which is surely the relevant discipline, it is standard to regard phonology as part of grammar. And I disagree with the apparent assertion that the average reader has a strong sense that grammar includes morphology and syntax, but not phonology, and will be confused by seeing phonology included under it, or by seeing "morphology and syntax" instead of "grammar". If we were basing our policy on what the average reader understands by "grammar", then we should probably include all sorts of prescriptive beliefs, plus orthographical conventions. Thankfully we don't do that. Garik ( talk) 13:41, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I share the goal of making articles accessible to a wide audience. I wasn't aware of the tradition of descriptive linguistics (aside from what I gather reading grammars of ancient languages, which might count as coming from the very beginning of descriptive linguistics). I was responding not to you, but to Garik's statement that grammar is phonology, morphology, and syntax — this sounds reminiscent of Chomskyan theories that I learned about in my syntax courses, which are based on the "theory specific" definition of grammar that I mentioned, although I could be wrong.
My point is to agree with including phonology in "grammar", along with several other elements of language description. To me it makes sense to group the sections describing the internal workings of a language together. That in my mind would include the writing system and lexical characteristics as well as phonology, morphology, and syntax, and some phonetics and semantics as they relate to the other parts of the system. Perhaps the sections could be grouped together under a different title than "grammar". My point of view is probably a bit atypical, though, coming more from familiarity with the grammars of ancient languages than modern descriptive linguistics. — Eru· tuon 02:31, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi! I started a topic in WikiProject Latin on whether small caps should be used for Classical Latin text in Latin spelling and pronunciation. Members of WikiProject Languages, especially (but not exclusively) those with interest in Latin, are welcome to head over there and comment if they have an opinion. The question needs resolving, and may warrant a poll, although I don't know how to start one myself. — Eru· tuon 23:58, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Hello linguists. A new editor today added a "phonological description" for the French pronunciation at the start of the Citroën DS article. I've tried to apply the IPAc-en template to this new addition, but only get "unsupported input" expressed; is someone here able to take a look? I'm not sure if I'm making a formatting error or if the new editor has made mistakes with the IPA symbols. Thanks. PaleCloudedWhite ( talk) 23:40, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
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Harej ( talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
Ongoing edit-war over gutting the contents, bad phrasing, and unref'd claims (I'm not sure speaking Spanish is part of speaking "Congo"). It could be better sourced anyway. — kwami ( talk) 20:39, 16 January 2015 (UTC)