This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Apologies if this is an FAQ. After I have transcluded a GA review page on an article's talk page, I notice that further edits to the GA review are not reflected on the talk page. Presumably this is some sort of caching issue -- the question is, what do I have to do to cause the cache to be updated? Thanks for any info, Looie496 ( talk) 17:54, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
The nominations listed at WP:GAN include links to various aspects of each article, e.g. the article itself, talk, edit, history etc. but not a link to the actual GA review as far as I can see. I think it would be good if you could jump straight to the GA review, particularly if the article has a busy talk page and the review is transcluded right at the bottom. Would this be possible? -- Jameboy ( talk) 12:36, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Dear All, as you may have seen from your watch page a straw poll on a trial implementation of FlaggedRevisions is now open.So please look at the proposal and then vote here. if you feel so inclined. I bring it to notice because my paranoria says it might make add other difficulties to GAs; but that's me! Edmund Patrick – confer 19:58, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Would anyone be interested in another GA backlog elimination drive if I were to set one up? - Drilnoth ( talk) 04:04, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
This question relates to a GAR I'm currently involved in, but I'd like a general answer to the question rather than an opinion on the GAR.
My question is, if an article clearly violates a WP Guideline, such as WP:BLP can that be a criteria for removing it from the list of Good Articles? It seems to me that by definition, an article that violates guidelines cannot be classed as an official 'Good Article', but another has argued that unless it specifically contradicts Good Article Criteria (where it is not explicitly stated that Good Articles should follow basic WP guidelines), violating BLP is not an adequate reason to remove it from the list of Good Articles. Some clarification please! River sider ( talk) 20:17, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm not a member of this WikiProject, but I've created a userbox that you may be interested in. It's intended to let other users know when you're currently reviewing an article. Vantine84 ( talk) 08:08, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
This user is currently reviewing the article article title for good article status. |
I'm letting you guys know about it because a lot of what is said there is also relevant for you guys. Plus your feedback would definitely be both relevant and appreciated. Headbomb { ταλκ κοντριβς – WP Physics} 04:07, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
is it inactive? Res Mar 20:20, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.
All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. - Drilnoth ( talk) 00:29, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
are featured articles also good articles? -- 98.162.148.46 ( talk) 00:40, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
What would this article have to cover, as far as broadness is concerned, to be GA worthy? The article clearly needs expansion, but besides the sections it has now, what other sections would it need for a GA pass? -- Al Ameer son ( talk) 22:01, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Could use some help establishing consensus for the GA reassessment of BBC. — Levi van Tine ( t – c) 10:32, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
This might feel like deja vu for some of you, but anyway, I just found {{ Good Article}}, which mimics {{ featured article}} (puts a GA icon in the corner of a mainspace article). As far as I can tell, this is against all of the current consensus on what to do with GAs, and I have removed it from the few articles where it was transcluded. I am also considering taking it to TfD (actually, I briefly considered tagging it for speedy deletion as "recreation of deleted content", but since I can't see the deleted {{ Good article}} I'm not sure if it's exactly the same). rʨanaɢ talk/ contribs 23:50, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
FYI There is currently a discussion ongoing at WP:ANI#User:Gimmebot removing transclusions of GA reviews regarding whether a bot should be removing the transclusion of GA reviews pages while it tweaks the top business (article history, etc.). – xeno talk 23:54, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I need a second opinion of whether to pass or fail. Thanks. Viriditas ( talk) 10:02, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
I would like to update everyone on the GA sweeps process. Last month, only two articles were reviewed. This is definitely a low point after our peak at the beginning of the process with 163 articles reviewed in September 2007. After nearly two years, the running total has just passed the 50% mark. In order to expediate the reviewing, several changes have been made to the process. A new worklist has been created, detailing which articles are left to review. All exempt and previously reviewed articles have already been removed from the list. Instead of reviewing by topic, you can consider picking and choosing whichever articles interest you.
We are always looking for new members to assist with the remaining articles, so if you are interested or know of anybody that can assist, please visit the GA sweeps page. In addition, for every member that reviews 100 articles or has a significant impact on the process, s/he will get an award when they reach that threshold. If only 14 editors achieve this feat starting now, we would be done with Sweeps! Of course, having more people reviewing less articles would be better for all involved, so please consider asking others to help out. Let's work to complete Sweeps so that efforts can be fully focused on the backlog at GAN. If you have any questions about the process, reviewing, or need help with a particular article, please contact me or OhanaUnited and we'll be happy to help. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 03:57, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I want to suggest that we notify, appropriate wikiprojects on their talk pages when a related article get nominated, I can design a special template for that, and this will make more editors participate in reviewing the article, any thoughts?? thank you all :-) please if some one leaves a comment here notify me on my talk page -- MaenK.A. Talk 22:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
I am not the most experienced GA Reviewer (nor that active lately, but that's besides the point) and I work mainly with the professional wrestling articles. I see that a lot of pro wrestling articles are at the top of the "Needs to be reviewed" pile and since Project:Pro Wrestling don't seem to be concerned with flooding the GA there are like 15 or 16 GAs pending on that subject alone. I understand why some people would pass these up, I get it even if I'm a fan I know most people aren't. I've intentionally not reviwed pro wrestling related articles for a long time, I did not want anyone to think it was inappropriate or a conflict of interest even if I myself think I can be fair.
Would it be a bad idea if I reviewed Pro Wrestling related articles provided I have never worked on them before? Hell 99% of the articles here are about promotions I don't work on in general. If it's a conflict of interest and you advis against it, maybe I can make a deal with someone, a review for a review - every pro wrestling related GA review done I'll match it with a GA review of an article of the reviwers choice? MPJ-DK ( talk) 14:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Hello. What's the reason that GA articles don't get an icon in their top right corner in the same way that FA articles do? Thanks. Socrates2008 ( Talk) 12:42, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
The GA Sweeps process is continuing to move at a good pace, as June's total of swept articles reached 290! We are currently over 70% done with Sweeps, with just under 800 articles left to review. With nearly 50 members, that averages out to about 15 articles per person. If each member reviews an article every other day this month (or several!), we'll be completely finished. If everyone completes their reviews, Sweeps would be completed in less than two years when it was first started (with only four members!). With the conclusion of Sweeps, each editor could spend more time writing GAs, reviewing at the backlogged GAN, or focusing on other GARs. I am again inviting any experienced GAN/GAR reviewers to consider reviewing some articles. If you're interested please read the instructions here. The more editors, the less the workload, and hopefully the faster this will be completed. If you have any questions about reviews or the process let me know and I'll be happy to get back to you. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 20:22, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Just a note to let you know that a discussion about the relevance of GA status and the GA process to Wikipedia mathematics articles is underway at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mathematics#Mathematics_GA_status. The discussion was triggered by the recent delisting of the main mathematics article by Gary King as part of the current GA Sweep - a decision which has now been taken to GAR. However, the scope of the discussion is wider than the status of this single article. Gandalf61 ( talk) 09:27, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
GA Sweeps has over 400 articles left to review. If you have not contributed to Sweeps yet, now is your chance to help review the remaining articles so that existing Sweeps reviewers can return to fully focus on GAN (instead of splitting between the two as some reviewers have done). Choose whichever articles you are interested in as there are articles available on a variety of topics and of varying lengths. Awards are available at the conclusion of the drive for excellent reviews. If you have any questions, let me know. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 23:27, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Friends of Good articles, please help me out!
I have made a proposal to showcase good articles here. Please comment! GeometryGirl ( talk) 16:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Hi,
I have a question regarding the template {{ GAR/link}}. When this template is put onto a page, it categorizes the article into Category:Good article reassessment nominees. However, this happens only if the "status" parameter is not set. If the status is, for example, set to "on hold", the article disappears from the category. Is this intended?
My problem with this behaviour is that ArticleAlertbot scans this category for the purpose of notifying WikiProjects. If a GA is set to "on hold" very soon, the bot will currently not find it. (See bug report.) -- B. Wolterding ( talk) 00:03, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
See here. If this would be a better place to discuss, feel free to move. Thanks. Wknight94 talk 22:01, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Dear colleagues
This is a reminder that voting is open until 23:59 UTC next Monday 14 December to elect new members of the Arbitration Committee. It is an opportunity for all editors with at least 150 mainspace edits on or before 1 November 2009 to shape the composition of the peak judicial body on the English Wikipedia.
On behalf of the election coordinators. Tony (talk) 09:37, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Hi, this is just a note that if you want to sign up for the 2010 WikiCup, then you have until 23:59 UTC on December 31 to do so. This can be done here. The WikiCup is a fun competition aiming at improving Wikipedia's content, with points awarded for featured articles, good articles, featured lists, featured pictures, featured sounds, featured portals, featured topics, good topics, did you know?, in the news and valued pictures. Over 170 people are already involved, but there's still time to sign up. If you have any questions, you are welcome to contact myself or one of the other judges on our talk pages or on IRC, or ask on one of the WikiCup talk pages. Hope to see some of you there. Thanks! J Milburn ( talk) 17:58, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks to everyone's efforts to the GA Sweeps process, we are currently over 90% done with only 226 articles remain to be swept! With over 50 members participating in Sweeps, that averages out to about 4 articles per person! We are open to any new members who would like to help us complete the remaining articles, so if you're interested in helping, please see the main page. If each member reviews an article once a week this month (or several!), we'll be completely finished. At that point, awards will be handed out to reviewers. As an added incentive, if we complete over 100 articles reviewed this month, I will donate $100 to Wikipedia Forever on behalf of all GA Sweeps participants. I hope that this incentive will help to increase our motivation for completing Sweeps while supporting Wikipedia in the process. When Sweeps is completed, more reviewers will be able to spend time in reviewing GANs to assist with the backlog. If you have any questions about reviews or Sweeps let me know and I'll be happy to get back to you. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 00:23, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Reviewing this for the sweeps, it occurs to me that this would be better classed as a list rather than a GA as it is predominately a series of one sentence paragraphs. I would appreciate guidance from others at Talk:Traditions and anecdotes associated with the Stanley Cup/GA1. Jezhotwells ( talk) 17:37, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Anybody up for one next month if I help organize it? – MuZemike 20:11, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Sure, I don't have a problem for, say, pushing it back to April, assuming the Sweeps get completed sometime next month. – MuZemike 18:16, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
Is there any reason good articles don't have a little green good icon logo at the top right corner of the page, like the star on a featured article? Has a possible template for this kind of thing been discussed and/or rejected before? — Hun ter Ka hn 16:31, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
I think it might be a good idea to subscribe to User:WolterBot/Cleanup listing subscription. The cleanup page at WP:Good articles/Cleanup listing hasn't been updated since November 2009 and many things have changed as a result of the sweeps and individual actions by reviewers. Any comments? –– Jezhotwells ( talk) 13:34, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I am trying to start a debate about defining what news organisations, as a reliable source, are good for and/or not good for. It is not as clearly defined as other similar reliable sources policies and it should be. Please see Wikipedia_talk:Identifying_reliable_sources#News_Organisations_section ~ R. T. G 19:03, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
Hi there,
Can someone tell me why there is a Link FA template on en:, but no corresponding Link GA ? (I am from fr:, where both are used). I understand you have a problem with your GAs, but Link GA is about foreign GAs. Sorry if it has already been discussed, I looked but couldn't find any reference. Oyp ( talk) 16:28, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Hi. I've been doing a lot of Wikipedia work at AfD and elsewhere but I'm completely new to the Good Article/Featured Article process. I've got a couple of articles that I've ended up creating or expanding that are now sitting at C-class - so, a long way from Good Article. I understand the GA criteria and I've looked at plenty of examples of Good Articles but I'm still a little stumped as to how to best direct my efforts to move my articles towards GA status. I'd appreciate some very brief notes from someone with some experience. The best example of an article I've worked on that might eventually reach GA is Paul Randall Harrington. Just a sentence or two on the talk page there about where my efforts could be best spent would be of help. Thanks. - DustFormsWords ( talk) 06:32, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
See my comment today at WT:GAN. - Dank ( push to talk) 18:01, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
There is a proposal to amend the GA criteria active at: Wikipedia_talk:Good_article_criteria#Not_Notable_GA.3F_Proposal_to_Amend_GA_Criteria Thank you. ɳorɑfʈ Talk! 04:32, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Since you are at it, if you adopt the GA star for English language articles, could you consider indicating foreign GAs ? Currently, foreign FAs are indicated using the template Link FA, but no template Link GA is in use. In all wikis I know, either none (on small wikis) or both (on large wikis) are in use, the case of en: is a bit weird in that regard. Oyp ( talk) 08:05, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
I have made a proposal at WT:ASSESS that is somewhat related to the issue of the FA star (and the desire for a GA icon). It looks at a broader issue by focusing more on helping readers understand our assessment system, rather than just focusing on recognizing quality content. Feedback, positive or negative, is strongly encouraged. – VisionHolder « talk » 01:27, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
I've made no comment on my enjoyment of wikipedia, but it certainly doesn't rest on changing anyone's mind about anything, as I've come to learn that's next to impossible. I'm simply saying that if my crystal ball had shown me that even though the quality of GAs is now far more consistent than it is for FAs, there would still be entrenched idealogical resistance to the idea of a green dot on the article page, then I wouldn't have taken part in the sweeps. Malleus Fatuorum 16:36, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Where has the idea come from that every sentence in an article must have a reference? I have seen this said in several reviews ( example). This is instruction creep of the worst kind. I am not for one moment advocating allowing unattributable material, but Wikipedia articles are already overcluttered with inline cites. WP:V makes a clear distinction between atributable, which is always required, and attributed, which is required for "anything challenged or likely to be challenged". SpinningSpark 17:46, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
What I try and do these days when editing is if I have a ref which supports several sentences in a row, leave a commented out comment on how many sentences or (or para) it supports. At which point it can be split later if things have to be rejigged. One day I hope there will be a show/hide option for the general reader, but I don't notice inlines myself at all these days. Casliber ( talk · contribs) 21:56, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
There is no real substitute for actually reading the refs and using your judgement. Littering the article with more than necessary cite tags and hidden comments is a pretty poor way of guarding against bad faith or OR editing. A fairly frequent vandal tactic is to just cut and paste an exisiting ref. Checking the edit history and then seeing if the refs actually support the diffs is the only sure way. Looking for gaps in a chain of tags tells you nothing. SpinningSpark 14:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
While there's been bickering above about whether to use the GA logo on pages, or what to do with assessments and the like, the backlog has quietly jumped back up again, only three weeks after our elimination drive. We kinda need some people to do reviews to at least break even; we don't have the energy to do another elimination drive in August, which may happen at this rate. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 20:02, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Once upon a time (i don't know for how long or how systematically) GAs had the GA symbol on the article page in much the same way as FAs have their little stars. When i raised this issue some time back, i recall it being said that we didn't add the GA symbol any more because of concerns about consistency of GA quality. It was suggested that we wait until after the sweeps before once again discussing whether adding the symbol would be a good idea. The sweeps are now finished, so I'm raising it. A related question raised by another editor is: should the same approach be taken to A-quality articles (a category used in some but not all Wikiprojects).
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Consensus has been reached in favour for GA symbol on mainspace. OhanaUnited Talk page 02:52, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
What do other GA regulars think? hamiltonstone ( talk) 03:12, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
decltype
(
talk)
02:52, 26 May 2010 (UTC)The reason I'm bringing this up is to illustrate that unless the project can demonstrate that things are somehow different since the last time having a GA symbol was discussed, I don't believe the outcome will be any different. There have certainly been improvements in transparency - for example, the introduction of dedicated sub-pages for reviewing and reassessing - but these were quite a while back and I fear the major stumbling block, as ever, is going to be the perceived unaccountability of GA's single reviewer system. EyeSerene talk 08:48, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
Other objections (Will readers know what the GA symbol means? Do most Wikipedians even know about GA? Would a symbol be for for the benefit of editors or readers? Should assessments be displayed in article space at all?) will be harder to address, but I think there are certainly things that GA could do to maximise its chances of eventually getting this through. EyeSerene talk 10:02, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
I have to say quite a number of those concerns are being raised in the abstract - without evidence - or based on people's past memories. And the test isn't whether the process is perfect but whether it is robust enough to give some reliable guidance to the reader. I recently saw an FA get up that contained clear original research - it doesn't mean i'm worried about the FAC process as a whole, and i was happy that there were easy steps to take to address it. I'm not sure there's much systemic evaluation being made here. I am however interested in the point about the recognisability of the GA symbol and how well understood it would be by the public readership. That's a good point. hamiltonstone ( talk) 03:31, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
This discussion makes me wonder: what proportion of the GAs reviewed in the sweeps were found to be wanting? Are there other data points which make the case either way that GA is or is not a reliable standard? -- Nasty Housecat ( talk) 16:25, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Some more comments:
– MuZemike 00:57, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Having thought hard, I have a slightly more pressing concern. Do we want to be announcing something as "good" to the world (ie a form of endorsement or recommendation), that is in principle open to manipulation by someone with a biased view and a reviewer of the same biased viewpoint? I'm concerned that this proposal has good value in that it promotes article quality and encourages attention to GA's... but might promote a kind of "politicization" of GAs for POV purposes. On the flip side most GAs do get multiple eyeballs and can be revoked or questioned if there were a doubt. If GAs get more formal recognition will there be a way to encourage wider eyeballs to counter anything like this? For example, a list of GA nominees, similar to RFC? I'd like to hear more thoughts on this before casting a view either way. I like the idea of promoting GAs, but not if it is likely to increase POV. FT2 ( Talk | email) 20:33, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks in advance for everyone's input. hamiltonstone ( talk) 22:20, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Wide publicity will be good. I don't want people surprised later. That seems like it keeps happening (with other things, not related to this). Maurreen ( talk) 07:52, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
Please see WP:PEREN. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 13:25, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
This has been listed at WP:CENT, and a note posted at WP:VPR, but I would suggest that some additional efforts (RfC, Signpost, posting to Wikiprojects ... anything else that might help) be taken to add visibility. I can't think of many changes one could make to Wikipedia that would be as visible to editors as the addition of a new symbol to mainspace articles; I think every effort should be taken to ensure that the many editors who would be startled by seeing the GA symbol in mainspace would be reassured on reading the discussion that led to that outcome. There is certainly plenty of support being expressed; let's be sure that it's as broad a consensus as possible before making the change. A separate point: if an RfC is undertaken I would like to suggest that it include, as an option, the choice of eliminating the FA star from mainspace articles. Mike Christie (talk) 00:26, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Consensus was reached in the above discussion. Now how does one go about adding that symbol to the top of the article? I was hoping the project page would've been updated with the info. Thanks! – Kerαunoςcopia◁ galaxies 19:35, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Now that this was done Template:Link GA needs to be resurrected and the bot (!?) adding symbols can mark foreign GAs with symbols in the "languages" as well. The German and Persian Wikis have bots that do that together with adding foreign FA stars. Hekerui ( talk) 20:03, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
I put at request at WP:BOTREQ#GA symbol. Ucucha 12:39, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be an RFC or project notification or something for this? I had no idea this discussion was going on. It sounds like something that should be addressed site-wide, not just at this project. — Gendralman ( talk) 22:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
(undent) From my reading there appears to be only support for GA and FA. No support is present for either A or any other classification level. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 23:21, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
An admin needs to do the work to get {{ Link GA}} to work and show the GA icon next to interwiki language links. The following pages need to be edited to make it work:
And you're done. Gary King ( talk) 18:45, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
I use User:OhanaUnited/assessment.js (which is the script that User:Outriggrcreated before he deleted it himself). The problem is that for any page with {{ Good article}}, the assessment will say that it is an FA..... Is there any way to quickly fix the script without completely rewriting it? OhanaUnited Talk page 03:59, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Just a word of thanks to those that successfully got this policy changed and to those that are implementing it through the templates and bots. As someone who's gotten over 25 articles to GA and done at least that many reviews, it's good to see visible acknowledgment popping up on articles of the work that's gone into articles with GA status. Wasted Time R ( talk) 15:37, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Please see proposal here. Crum375 ( talk) 11:46, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
I think the green plus sign works quite well as a symbol that clearly represents (I suspect even to readers who don't know the ins and outs of Wikipedia) that the article is quality-marked, but not as high quality as a shiny star - so kudos to its creator for that. Other suggestions, like a silver star, would have been far worse at communicating this idea. But when it appears in small scale the symbol is not so graphically clear, particularly compared to the FA star. There are two particular aspects to this:
For what it's worth I do like the current, tilted design for use on pages like WP:GA - when in its larger incarnation, the tilt makes what is otherwise quite a basic symbol stand out far more.
Does what I wrote seem reasonable? I'm not capable of producing new graphics myself, but I do think the white background of the link GA template, and the fact that the top right article icon is oriented differently to the FA star equivalent, seem out of place. TheGrappler ( talk) 22:25, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
The discussion above did not discuss foreign/interwiki good articles, and yet it is being used to justify the position that all articles deemed "good" by the sister Wikipedias in other languages should be so marked in the interwiki sidebar of English Wikipedia articles. I come to this via a clear instance of where this was a bad idea, where Spanish Wikipedia has deemed "good" a translation from an English Wikipedia article version riddled with WP:OR, which was problematic enough to require extensive cleanup labors here on English Wikipedia. In a nutshell, would the community here, which relied on arguments like "GAN is now pretty rigorous," have endorsed "GAN is now pretty rigorous on all other Wikipedias, too"?
While I don't have a problem with the interwiki stars for foreign FA's (often these are great articles, though there too there are sometimes cases where the star marks an article decidedly inferior to the non-FA here), it doesn't appear to me that GA standards ("now pretty rigorous" here but still developing elsewhere) are ready for prime time in this way. Beside an interwiki link, an icon probably means to most readers who notice it, "Even though you're looking on the English Wikipedia, if you care to look in another language there's an impressive treatment of this subject available elsewhere." I can buy that for an interwiki FA in a way I can't for a GA approved by other local standards and processes.
I'm not sure how enforceable the consensuses reached here are supposed to be, but it appears that in any case none was reached on the interwiki case, and I suggest that there are good reasons to consider against extending the use of the GA icon to the interwiki sidebar. Wareh ( talk) 19:43, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
I think the FA vs. GA difference is very real, but to see it we have to forget theoretical consistency (pointing out that local standards are different for FA's too) and use practical judgment and common sense. Other Wikipedias' FA's might be completely unworthy of that designation on Wikipedia-en, but are generally excellent articles worth checking out for anyone interested. Other Wikipedias' GA's are far more likely to be completely inadequate articles, so that putting green stars with them, as Pyrotec says, threatens to "bring the GA system [here] into disrepute." There are only so many times I will click over to an interlanguage "good" article and see shoddy work (quite likely translated from an English version that won no accolades) before I will just roll my eyes at the green pluses under interwiki. Practically speaking, this is not such a danger with FA's. Wareh ( talk) 13:16, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
Many others wikis have been marking English GAs as such for ages, even though their overall quality was dubious. The right way to address the situation was to improve these English GAs, not unmark them in other wikis, and I am really glad this was done. That said, everyone above is assuming that foreign GAs are often less good than English GAs, or, at the very best, as good as them. For the record, here is the situation on the French wiki: when an FA is translated from en: and improved, it is generally proposed for the GA label. When a GA is translated, it is rarely proposed for any label. Specific cases may be different, of course. Despite this, I found no record of anybody suggesting not to mark foreign GAs or FAs on fr:. Oyp ( talk) 07:28, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
If I were to make a proposal, it would be: interwiki GA marking via Template:Link GA is fine if done by a human editor in the belief that attracting the user's notice to the article in another language is useful. Knowledgeable editors competent to review the foreign articles should feel free to remove the GA link if they judge it is to an inferior article (as I have done at Pederasty in ancient Greece). The basic idea here is that the raw informational value of having every foreign GA marked (when done without thought or subject-area knowledge) is outweighed by the fact that so many of those markings would be of articles that no reasonable and competent judge would consider useful as supplementary reading or as material from which to improve the English article. Wareh ( talk) 15:01, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
It seems the main concern with GAs becoming hook is that the people over at DYK feel that it would increase their work load. Wondering if we would be interested in generating DYK hooks here at GA? This section of the main page would than be a combined effort of these two groups. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 19:48, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
I have never understood why the current GA symbol is used. Personally, I don't like it and never have because it doesn't seem to represent anything. I have not taken issue with it since it was hidden away on talk pages. However, now that it is being displayed in articles, perhaps we could create a more professional and recognizable symbol. I propose the creation of a green star using the FA star as the model. I believe this would be better representation of quality work, but noting a difference from "gold star" quality work.-- William S. Saturn ( talk) 22:51, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
See the thread here for the proposal.-- William S. Saturn ( talk) 18:22, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
I have filed a request for a bot that would check usage of the {{ Good article}} template, and add it to eligible pages that don't transclude it. See Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Good Article Patrol Bot. Robert Skyhawk ( T C B) 03:36, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Can somebody please write a more explicit set of directions for listing an article for GA review please? -- Iankap99 ( talk) 22:53, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
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Thanks. — Headbomb { ταλκ κοντριβς – WP Physics} 09:12, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)
Previous discussion in some of the above sections seemed to demonstrate a range of opinions about which icon to use, and perhaps it'd be a good idea to bring them together. At the very least, even if we keep the current tilted plus sign symbol for our "article corner" icon, we need to replace it as our "interlanguage link" icon by something that has the correct background color! (And probably should be simplified like the interwiki FA star, since at small size its key features are not easily visible). Rather than jump straight into an unstructured discussion or vote about whose idea is best, I think it would be worthwhile to collect two kinds of ideas together: what criteria we want to judge an icon by, and what alternative proposals exist (for both the article corner and the interlanguage link icon, which, as for FA, need not be exactly the same and may have different requirements). Feel free to add ideas and suggestions the list below! I've picked out those that I've seen in the discussions above (somewhat paraphrased - if you feel misrepresented, please change!), in the order they appear to occur. TheGrappler ( talk) 12:13, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
How about ({{check mark}}
)? It fulfills all of those criteria easily. It's green, scalable, 2D, simple (less attention-grabbing than the gold star), instantly recognizable (simple silhouette), somewhat subtle, and meaningful. Plus, no one could confuse it for a higher designation than FA—the difference in quality between a check mark and a gold star is obvious. —
Designate (
talk)
21:24, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
is what they use on the Spanish Wikipedia. Locos suggested it above as something that compromises between the benefits of "checklist" - as Designate points out, it would be "green, scalable, 2D, simple (less attention-grabbing than the gold star), instantly recognizable (simple silhouette), somewhat subtle, and meaningful. Plus, no one could confuse it for a higher designation than FA" - but also recognizable similar to the current symbol. And it's also used in a major Wikipedia in a different language. I'm feeling very persuaded by this one. TheGrappler ( talk) 16:47, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure that we can assume that among all the international readers of Wikipedia that the relative positions of a star and either a plus sicn or a tick will be obvious. The colour schemes would again not be obvious to everyone. On the other hand, I can't imagine people being confused that a half-star is good but not as good as a full star.-- Peter cohen ( talk) 18:01, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
The article William O'Connell Bradley was first listed as GA in May 2007. It also passed a reassessment in June 2009. However, I gained access to several more sources between May 2007 and now, and undertook a substantial expansion of the article in my user space. Having finished the expansion, I transferred the expanded article to the main space. I'd like to have the article reassessed to make sure I haven't introduced any problems that would cause it to forfeit its GA status. I'm also looking forward to a FA run in the near future, and any comments from a GA reassessment will just make that go more smoothly. I started to list it at WP:GAR, but that seems to be for articles where someone is claiming the article no longer meets the GA requirements or where there is a dispute as to whether or not it does. Neither of those is the case. I've just made a substantial expansion of the article and want some assurance that I haven't introduced any problems before moving forward. What is the correct procedure for this? Acdixon ( talk • contribs • count) 16:47, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
The discussion above continues to address, as a technical and graphical issue, how best to indicate that an interlanguage link will take a reader to an article deemed "good" by a sister Wikipedia, even if that article may be (as in the case that brought the issue to my attention) merely a translation of an English article with profound problems that would never have a chance at passing GAR. (I summarized before: "The basic idea here is that the raw informational value of having every foreign GA marked (when done without thought or subject-area knowledge) is outweighed by the fact that so many of those markings would be of articles that no reasonable and competent judge would consider useful as supplementary reading or as material from which to improve the English article.") In the previous discussion (see now the archive), there was no consensus about the propriety of indicating GA status of interlanguage articles.
I do not want to adopt an extreme position that would not win consensus (for example, that Template:Link GA should never be used), but I am concerned that while User:AstaBOTh15 did cease automatic and mindless use of the template on June 7 (in response to our discussion here, I assume), its additions of GA interlanguage links have not all been reverted or reviewed, and no policy has been formulated about the issue here.
Therefore I would like to submit a proposal to a vote and discussion.
Proposed: Interwiki GA articles should only be marked as such (with Template:Link GA) by a human editor, and in the belief that attracting the user's notice to the article in another language is useful. Knowledgeable editors competent to review the foreign articles should feel free to remove the GA link if they judge it is to an inferior article. Past automatic and unconsidered use of Template:Link GA should be reverted in favor its considered and informed use in the future. Wareh ( talk) 18:19, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
decltype
(
talk)
18:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)This proposal in a nutshell: The instructions at Wikipedia:Good article nominations will be expanded to promote checking of newly nominated pages against the quick fail criteria. |
WP:GAN#How to review an article will have a second set of steps included, recommending that newly listed GA nominees be checked against the quickfail criteria and concisely explaining how to do so. A {{ QFCheck}} template in the vein of {{ GAReview}} will be created to tag listings that have been checked so that time will not be wasted by multiple reviewers scanning the same article. Articles which do not pass the quickfail criteria will be removed from the list with a brief justification posted to the article talk page, as happens at present.
Through implementing this system we can reduce the average wait time to nomination assessment by removing obviously unfit nominations rapidly, thereby raising efficiency for both writers and reviewers. This proposal may also help increase reviewer recruitment, by lowering the bar of entry to new reviewers who wish to help but are intimidated by the prospect of doing a full GA review. It will also increase transparency in the review process, reduce duplication of effort by reviewers looking for easy articles to clear off the page, lower the noise level at WP:GAN by ensuring that all pages waiting to be reviewed are actually review-worthy, and may even serve to reduce the number of woefully inadequate GA nominations by publicizing what the minimum criteria for consideration are. -- erachima talk 22:46, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone have any objection to or input on implementing the proposal I made here to reorganise the space and astronomy categories. I would like to sort the issue out before that talk page gets archived, however the talk page has not been active enough to generate sufficient discussion. Please direct replies there. Thanks -- G W … 20:38, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
FYI. Airplaneman ✈ 06:02, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
I mentioned at Wikipedia_talk:Good_article_nominations#Elimination_Backlog_coordinated_with_WP:CUP that it is worth thinking about coordinating a backlog elimination drive to be timed to offset the surge in creations for the WP:CUP finals in October. I am beginning to ramp up my production and imagine the other finalist are probably going to be doing so as well.-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 06:14, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps this might be a time to consider the discrepancy in reward between the nominators and the reviewers? It's easy to see why an editor might nominate, but why review? Malleus Fatuorum 23:58, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
A bit late now, but perhaps the problem with the WikiCup "glut" producing a blockage could actually solve itself, by including good article reviews in future WikiCup scoring systems? TheGrappler ( talk) 23:34, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
I think that awarding Cup points for GAN reviews is a bad idea because it creates the possibility of gaming the system: Cup participants give shoddy reviews to each other's articles. And while I'd like to assume that wouldn't happen, it's always best to avoid setting up a coi. (Side note: when you guys say you've done dozens of GAN reviews, it's a little off-putting to someone who might be enticed to doing one or two. Like me. Or someone following the "request one, do one" rule HJ Mitchell brought up.) HereToHelp ( talk to me) 02:39, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't think that there's liable to be a problem with crappy reviews if the judges can validate each review and throw out the bad ones. Contestants will be more careful if they know that somebody's going to review their reviews; that's just human nature.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 04:53, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
No disrespect to CUP contestants intended, but I would rather it took slightly longer to get a review than encourage by-the-numbers reviews. The former ensures a steady stream of quality content, whereas the latter threatens the integrity of the entire system. Of course the WikiCup editors are free to run their project in any way they wish, but we ought to carefully consider the incentives here. Skomorokh 08:58, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Is there any interest in holding the proposed Backlog Elimination Drive in October? I ask because October is eight days away and nothing has happened as far as page creation or organization. I'm willing to help out with the organization of this drive if there's sufficient interest. – Grondemar 04:41, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
(Don't know if this is the best place, but... ) I was looking at the Dean Witter Reynolds article, and I was surprising to see that the GA review had been deleted as the creation of a banned user. As far as I can tell, it was never officially passed / passed at all. Am I missing something? - Jarry1250 Humorous? Discuss. 18:41, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Can I please get a second opinion here? Should only take a minute- basically, are the current reviews enough, or are more needed? Sorry if I'm doing this wrong, I'm in a bit of a rush... J Milburn ( talk) 11:02, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
I don't think LivingBot ( talk · contribs) and GA bot ( talk · contribs) are doing such a good job of keeping Wikipedia:Good articles/recent up to date.-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 19:36, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Please discuss, at Wikipedia_talk:Good_article_nominations#Proposed_change_to_GAN_instructions_.3D_all_nominators_must_review. -- Cirt ( talk) 13:38, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
I just wanted to get some feedback on a new template I've created that might help article reviewers and/or promoters keep better track of the discussions associated with an article.
Template:Rating icon takes in two parameters, the first being a page name, and the second being a type. It then generates a 16x16 icon of the user's choosing that links to the chosen page. I did this so I could have a list on my user page of links to both an article and its promotion discussion, without taking up more space.
--
Gyrobo (
talk)
21:05, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
Hello! As you may be aware, the Wikimedia Foundation is gearing up for our annual fundraiser. We want to hit our goal, and hit it as soon as possible, so that we can focus on Wikipedia's tenth anniversary (January 15) and on our new project, the Contribution Team.
I'm posting across WikiProjects to engage you, the community, in working to build Wikipedia not only through financial donations, but also through collaboration in building content. You can find more information in Philippe Beaudette's memo to the communities here.
Please visit the Contribution Team page and the Fundraising page to find out how you can help us support and spread free knowledge. ⇒ DanRosenthal Wikipedia Contribution Team 18:57, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps we should have a rule that a reviewer cannot review more than 5 articles from any given nominator. There are a few cases where pairings are developing and editors A and B are reviewing too many of each other's articles. This results in a less rigorous review, and the potential for a drifting away from community-wide standards. Ideally, a nominator would receive input from a different reviewer on each GA nomination. Racepacket ( talk) 17:12, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
I have learned something from every GA review that I received and from every GA review that I have written. Hence, there is a concern about becoming "inbred" because the process will not be as beneficial if the same people work with each other all the time. If we can't have a hard rule, could we start soft measures that would discourage it. For example, we could add a statement on the GAN page instructions encouraging people to spread around the reviews. As another example, what would happen if the robot that creates the review page, automatically includes a statement that the nominator and reviewer have been paired X times in the past. That type of disclosure would cause a cringe factor as X starts to grow. Racepacket ( talk) 17:32, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Bad idea. We have a shortfall on # of reviewers. This only worsens the situation. OhanaUnited Talk page 22:01, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm not convinced that these proposals have any bearing on the "problem" that is claimed to exist. The stated target was "the same people work with each other all the time" and it hints about wrong doing, but it makes absolutely no effort to consider or deal with this problem, if it exists since no evidence has been provided that standards have been lowered. To reiterate, I've reviewed more than five articles from the same editor in the last two years, and for more than one nominator; and in the case of one editor (I could name, but have not done so) these were mostly upgraded in a very short time to FAs. This belies the claim that I and unnamed others are lowering standards. I would strongly suggest that we are raising standards, not lowering them. The second proposal is that I and others should be "embarrassed" by a message such as this is the "ninth review that Pyrotec has done for editor A (hopefully a made up name, I've not reviewed any articles by editor A)". So what. It is a matter of fact that no such editor A has reviewed my nominations on a one-for-one or even on a one-for-one-hundred basis. If the intention is to discourage "you pass my nomination and I'll pass yours" reviews then assuming bad faith and seeking to embarrass/attack reviewers who have reviewed more that some arbitrary number of nominations proposed by Racepacket from the same nominator is a strange of addressing a problem that may not exist. Let's be clear, the stated aim seems to be to discourage "editors A and B are reviewing too many of each other's articles", yet all the proposals seem to be discouraging editor A from carrying out more than one (well, 5 or more) of editor B's WP:GANs, which is hardly the same thing. Pyrotec ( talk) 10:17, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Pretty clear consensus against. Binksternet ( talk) 10:53, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Why did the bot make this edit which changed the date of a GA promotion from today to November 14?-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 20:22, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Ordinarily, I wouldn't attempt to "cut in line", but I was wondering if anyone could review my nomination of John Y. Brown, Jr. If passed, it would complete my 61-article Kentucky Governors good-topic-in-waiting. It took over 2 months to get it reviewed last time, but the review hit the day after my first child was born, so I didn't have sufficient time to address the concerns at that time. I've tried to address most of the concerns now, and I'm off work through the end of the year, so the next couple of weeks would be a great time for me to address concerns and get this good topic nominated. Thanks in advance. Acdixon ( talk • contribs • count) 16:21, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
I couldn't find this written down anywhere, so I'd thought I'd ask: when a page moves from one title to another, should the GA subpages move to the new title as well? I would think that you would want them to move, to prevent them from possibly becoming associated with a new article at the old title. Thoughts? – Grondemar 00:31, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
I've probably missed something obvious, and this is irking me more than it should, but why have neither Somerhill House nor Robert and Thomas Wintour been listed as on hold? The bot doesn't even recognise that I'm the reviewer? J Milburn ( talk) 00:03, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
Extra clarification could help get additional good reviewers. Just went through my first submission, and also just started my first review, so I'm at a point where I notice this stuff where an expert wouldn't. The details on the nuts and bolts regarding administration (templates, tagging, updating status, review pages etc.) are just a few notes scattered here and there.
Which leads me to my suggested clarification/ question of the moment. For a passed article, is the a recommended way to handle the review page? I'm assuming that this would include un-transcluding it. But the, does the page stay as a GA1 page, or get moved into the article archives or .....??? Thanks North8000 ( talk) 13:22, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
As I mentioned, I'm still at the newbie/dummy level regarding the GA process, and so I can still see some not-very-explained things that the experts can't see. After reading the above, my suggestions are:
Sincerely, North8000 ( talk) 12:26, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
For example, I'm almost finished reviewing an article. Now, if and when it passes, where is the part that says: Here's what you do when article passes:
So, I'm hunting around and will take some guesses. Is it just putting the template on the main article page? Or modifying other templates? I'm guessing that I don't have to mark the list because it says that the robot does at least some parts of it (who knows which parts it does and doesn't do?) And what do I do that triggers the robot to do that. ? North8000 ( talk) 03:18, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
In my opinion, it helps to leave the review transcluded even after the review closes and to keep it in that chronological place on the talk page until the page rolls off into a page-wide archive process. If the article fails, the review will allow editors browsing the talk page to see the unaddressed deficiency in the article. If the article passes, the review may contain suggestions for future improvement. How does transclusion hurt? Removing the transclusion is imposing just one more task on the GA reviewer. As to the argument that FACs are not transcluded, a FA is much further along in the process, so it may provide as much benefit toward future action as does a GA review. Racepacket ( talk) 06:10, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi,
Theses days, I’m translating Hôtel de Blossac from the french GA article. I assume that be a GA on fr.WP doesn’t means it will be automatically a GA on en.WP but I wonder : is there somewhere a multilingual comparison or an history of the GAs ? (or FAs, or others languages). Basically, the criteria seems pretty equal (see WP:GA? and fr:WP:GA). In facts, is it me or the french-speaking GA criteria seems a little more harder to get ? A galon, VIGNERON * discut. 17:22, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
I recently saw a GAC closure with which I completely disagree- is there a procedure for this? I had a look around, and I couldn't find one... J Milburn ( talk) 18:31, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
Hello, could I please have a third opinion on the style of attribution used in this article? You'll see what I mean when you look at the review. The article's author feels it is appropriate for this type of article, while I feel it is a poor academic style. J Milburn ( talk) 12:22, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Please comment at Wikipedia_talk:Good_article_nominations#New_function_for_GA_bot.-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 16:55, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
There's an ongoing discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (embedded lists) in which Kudpung and other editors assert that GA reviewers are inappropriately insisting on the conversion of embedded lists into prose. They propose that the MoS guideline be changed to explicitly exempt their preferred types of lists.
I think it would be useful to have some experienced GA reviewers involved in this discussion. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 02:26, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
I know this is about 3 months away, but as they say, it's never too early to plan early! Anyways, I think another GAN backlog elimination drive for this coming April would be a good idea. Some stuff we can probably discuss right now:
If anyone has any other ideas, go ahead and shoot away. – MuZemike 21:48, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
Looks like we have at least a rough consensus to have the next GAN backlog elimination drive next month, so one should come up with a Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/GAN backlog elimination drives/March 2011 in the works within the next two weeks or so. The only other questions that I mentioned above remain, if anyone wishes to comment. – MuZemike 19:49, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
British Pakistanis has been promoted to GA status without a review page being created. According to the editor who promoted the article, the review is implicit in the decision (see here). I've raised this issue at Wikipedia talk:Good articles. Comments there would be appreciated. Cordless Larry ( talk) 09:44, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Please consider this sentence:
Following the announcement by Strauss, in 12 May, the manufacturer sent sale proposals to five prospective airlines, which included Lufthansa and Swissair.
in light of the WP:GACR #2b:
(b) reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
With these criteria, I don't think we could legitimately require an inline citation for this statement, which are required only for five types of statements:
It's not a direct quotation. It contains a date and a number, but it's not a statistic. It's not an opinion. It's not counter-intuitive or controversial. It's not been challenged, and it's not WP:LIKELY to be challenged. It's not about a living person.
And yet, I want an inline citation for it. I think it's the date that bothers me: Specific dates are easily vandalized and too often included when they are of no importance (especially for events that happened while the article was being written).
What do you think? Would you fail an article over the lack of an inline citation for this sentence? Should all dates be supported by inline citations? WhatamIdoing ( talk) 21:20, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
I just had a similar experience. The article said, "As it passes amidst heavily wooded terrain with some houses alongside the roadway, SR 372 travels past an intersection with North Ridge Road, then abruptly comes to an end as it crosses the western boundary of Scioto Trail State Forest. The roadway continues eastward from this point as CR 199.[4]" However, reference #4 was a map which showed the road continue past the forest boundary as SR 372. I challenged the statement, and the nominator said the map was wrong. I argued that a different source was needed because both claiming the map was wrong was counter-intuitive and the route number was like a statistic. Both the nominator and User:Imzadi1979 argued that criteria 2b does not require an inline citation ("a name, not a statistic.") Ultimately, the nominator rewrote the sentence to supply a better source for the highway designation ending at the boundary and removing the reference to CR 199. However, it is troubling that a nominator would put a specific fact into an article and source it with something that said the exact opposite. Racepacket ( talk) 11:14, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
I'm about to send a bot notice to the current WP:WPGA members about the upcoming GAN backlog elimination drive. What I was also thinking of doing was sending out a "WikiProject membership update" notice on top of that. Here's how it would work: for instance, at WikiProject Video games and the Nintendo task force, we keep our "active membership" up-to-date by temporarily moving everyone to an "Inactive members" list and then send a notice to all members to update their status by moving their username from the "Inactive list" to the "Active list". After a period of time passes (at WP:VG and WP:NIN, that has been a month), we remove the "Inactive list", which leaves us with an up-to-date list of project members. Thoughts about that? – MuZemike 19:07, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
I know the historical context involved. Yes, GAN reviews used to be conducted directly on article talk pages, but we went to subpage reviewing years ago. No other process places its reviews on the talk pages. XfDs don't. FACs/FARCs aren't transcluded. PRs don't. I don't know of any dedicated ACR process that does. I think it's time that the bot stops automatically transluding the reviews to the talk page. Once the review is started, either the bot or the reviewer will change the status of the template at the top of the talk page to "onreview" or "onhold". Either way will signal a nominator that there has been changes to their nomination's status. The template has a link to the review page, and the {{ ArticleHistory}} will have a record of the review and a link to the page once that bot updates the talk page (if the reviewer doesn't do so himself when closing the review.) Imzadi 1979 → 18:42, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
I think that it is beneficial to have the review left as transcluded. If at some point, the article editors want to establish an archive procedure for the talk page, the transclusion can migrate off the page with other material of that vintage. With many highway articles, the review is the only substantive debate regarding the content of the article, and it is helpful for readers who do not understand how to access reviews through the article milestone banner to see it. Racepacket ( talk) 11:18, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
In cases where one GA review was failed and the nominator immediately re-nominates, it might be helpful to keep the first review transcluded until the later review is completed, just so that analysis will not be overlooked. Racepacket ( talk) 08:33, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
I left a message at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:GAN#Talk:Netball_in_the_Cook_Islands.2FGA3 , but did not receive any advice, so I am raising it here. If two editors are working together (almost as co-nominators) at a GA review for a main article, and one of the editors creates a country-specific spin off article from it, with the other editor making substantive changes to the spin off article in the last few weeks ( diff and diff), if the first editor nominates the spin off article for GA, can the second editor be the reviewer? In other words, what does "made significant contributions to it prior to the review" really mean? Racepacket ( talk) 08:35, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow reviewers, Just a heads up for those that need it. Credo Reference has donated 400 free user accounts to Wikipedia. They are now taking applications. GA reviewers qualify (provided you meet the other requirements). Click on the link to find out more. Just thought I'd let you know. Cheers. – SMasters ( talk) 03:40, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
One of our Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation contributors has provided this report this list of 4,000 "Good articles" containing errant links to disambiguation pages. Because of our current (and ever-growing) backlog of about 780,000 ambiguous links, I have proposed to have a bot place a "disambiguation needed" tag on these links. Obviously, good articles should not contain bad links, and these tags will alert the editors most familiar with the subject matter of these articles to the links requiring repair, hopefully enabling such repairs to be carried out quickly. Please let me know if anyone has any other ideas for resolving this issue. Cheers! bd2412 T 13:26, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
Keeping on the netball theme, we have an odd situation on Talk:Netball/GA1. User:LauraHale nominated the article and approached User:Bill_william_compton to do the review on March 5. The review quickly ran into problem because when Bill noted areas requiring work, LauraHale would ask for specific instructions on how to fix them and instead of treating those as merely examples, she thought that they were the exhaustive list of all such occurances of the problem. In addition, Bill took a wikibreak for a couple of days and there was miscommunications. Based on that, LauraHale asked for a replacement reviewer and Bill advertised for the post and I volunteered. Just as I was getting started, User:KnowIG also began to provide a detailed review.
I tried to consolidate a list of issues and my own suggested edits and found LauraHale difficult because when I asked her a question or raised a concern, she tried to change the subject to the fact that I was not using British spelling in communicating with her on the talk or review page. (Both LauraHale and I grew up in Illinois.)
Finally, she proposed that we end the review, give the active editors a week to fix the article and then have a new nominator and new reviewer do a separate GA review. I responded that I was willing to continue and to keep the review on hold during that week. Rather than reply to my suggestion, she edited the talk page with the "failed" template. Based on our prior discussions over Talk:U.S. Route 223/GA2 I have restored the "onhold" template and am willing to work with the other editors to complete the review.
I welcome the guidance of other project members on how to handle such situations. Thanks, Racepacket ( talk) 15:56, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
I agree with much of what has been said and understand the "collective responsibility" aspect. There are two concerns: 1) If there are five or six active editors on the article, and the nominator unilaterally asks to withdraw, wouldn't it make more sense to canvass the other editors to see if the consensus is to finish the review? 2) If the reviewer has invested hours in reading the sources, checking for close paraphrasing, checking for accuracy, shifting reviewers seems like a terrible waste of volunteer resources. It seems to me that we should stick with the formality of the reviewer being the one to close the review. The nominator can post on the review page, "I wish to withdraw." If the reviewer believes that there may be a misundertanding to clear up, they can discuss it before closing down the review page. I don't think that the nominator should just unilaterally edit the GAfail template without discussing it with the reviewer. In many cases, the problem could be solved with a second opinion on a narrow issue, rather than start the process over again from the beginning. Our guidance should also include some of what was discussed above so that reviewers will know what is or is not acceptable behavior: 1) can the reviewer repost unaddressed concerns on the talk page? 2) can the reviewer make comments on the next review page as a non-reviewer? 3) Can the first reviewer start a GAR if he honestly believes that the second review mis-applied the criteria? 4) Can the first reviewer leave a note on the FAC discussion? Some nominators' egos are fragile and take constructive criticism as "harrassment," so guidance is needed. Racepacket ( talk) 20:05, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
Related to a comment above: I'm curious how many hours you commonly spend on a single GA review?
I realize that it will vary dramatically by length of article, what condition it's in, how much you know about the subject, how easily you can get at the sources, etc. But I'm curious what a typical review looks like, so if you wouldn't mind, please think about the last review or two you finished, and post a note below.
Please keep in mind that there is no 'right answer': a short time does not mean that the reviewer was lax or lazy, and a long time could mean that the reviewer wasted hours arguing with editors over trivialities.
I'll start: I believe that I spent at least four and probably closer to five hours all together on my last GA review, most of it obtaining or double-checking sources. This is a bit on the long side for me, but it was a technical subject that I didn't know much about. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 23:33, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
I have spent 5 hours on many reviews and in some cases considerably more time. If I am picking up a review that was started by someone else and know where he/she left off in the process it can take less time (e.g, Talk:Don't Forget the Bacon!/GA1). Similarly, if the article is very short, it can take less time. There are three variables: 1) the number of references, 2) the quality of the article and 3) the degree of interaction with the article's editors. In one case, Talk:Margaret Thatcher/GA3 the article was being revised so rapidly and massively that it was a challenge to keep up and scrutinize the edits contemporaneously. Racepacket ( talk) 05:07, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
My GA reviews tend to go pretty rapidly, because I'm familiar with the subject, and I know common mistakes that road editors tend to make in their articles (I've been editing road articles for over 6 years now). Also, road articles tend to be shorter compared to the bulk of GANs. -- Rs chen 7754 05:12, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
I noticed that good articles and featured articles have a small mark at the top corner close to the search bar (depending on what WikiTheme you use), but articles with GA or FA nominations do not. I believe that a mark that identifies that said article is nominated for GA or FA status, and links to the discussion as well can save a few seconds of people's time instead of having to go to the article and hit talk page to reach or start the discussion. Now I understand that this can be a lot of labor to apply to the articles currently in these processes, but I believe that Wikipedia needs a tiny bit more efficency, and this is a step to acheving it.
So my good sirs, shall we discuss or dismiss this as absolute twaddle? Takeo™ 15:05, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
I removed the RfC because it is a snowball fail OhanaUnited Talk page 06:25, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
Editors interested in GA work might want to look over Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Racepacket 2, which is largely about a series of disputes at GAs reviewed by Racepacket. In particular, there are questions about whether Wikipedia would be best served by having Racepacket stop reviewing GANs about Netball and US roads. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 18:10, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Someone (unrelated to the RFC disputants, AFAICT) has now proposed a community ban (entire English Wikipedia) for Racepacket at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Site_ban_proposed_for_User:Racepacket. As editors here probably have more experience with Racepacket than average, some of you may be able to contribute helpfully to that discussion. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 19:50, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
Since WP:USRD/STDS is merely an essay within a WikiProject, any criteria listed under WP:WIAGA can override USRD/STDS because WIAGA represents a much broader consensus among the entire community (where as USRD/STDS only, at best, represent the consensus from WikiProject U.S. Roads). Don't forget that USRD/STDS is an essay and not a guideline/policy, it does not have any teeth to force others (articles and/or users) to comply and conform to it. OhanaUnited Talk page 05:15, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
The RFC/U is also now closed, and I hope we can have an RFC on the question of the relationship between the GA criteria and various WikiProject standards. Again, I will follow whatever policy is in place, but I hope we can keep the GA review process one where non-experts can review articles from other subject areas. Reviewing outside one own subject area keeps the GA criteria consistent throughout Wikipedia and results in articles that can be easily understood by a reader who lacks background in a subject. Racepacket ( talk) 11:52, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
Is anyone else here interested in reviving the GA collaboration? There are many great articles on the GA list which are almost of featured-quality. This seems to be a great way to give some of those articles the final push that they need. Tarret talk 16:43, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
Should we start up the newsletter again? I've created a draft here. Feel free to post comments/queries. Doh5678 Talk 01:16, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
Last year there was some fear that the WikiCup competition would overwhelm the GA process. To address this, the 2011 rules were changed to give 2 points for reviewing a GA nomination. You might want to visit WP:CUP and grab some statistics on the total number of reviews in Round 1 and Round 2 that were preformed by cup contestants. I read it as 182 GA reviews performed in Round 1 (Jan/Feb 2011). The totals are much higher for Round 2 with Wizardman doing 42 and my doing 37. Thanks for doing the newsletter. Racepacket ( talk) 11:45, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
I don't think that we're doing a good job of advertising second opinions as a lightweight means of dispute resolution on specific points. We use this process, but there's no handy "post at ____ to get a second opinion" set of instructions. It's quicker and simpler than an individual GAR, because it is usually used for a single, specific question, like "Should this image be included?" or "Does this paragraph make sense?", rather than for broader questions ("Should this article be listed as GA?").
I believe that increased use of this process might both reduce bad experiences and also introduce a bit more consistency into reviews.
I have two ideas for doing this:
What do you think? WhatamIdoing ( talk) 20:09, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Hello, I just wanted to inform you that now also it.wiki has activated the "Good Article" category. The articles having this status will be put under subcategories of it:Categoria:Voci di qualità per argomento. I don't know if this will be interesting for you, but maybe you'll want to update some bots... -- Gengis Gat ( talk) 17:16, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Would anyone here be interested in creating a "B-class task force" for this Wikiproject? It would help to accomplish the following.
While points 1 and 2 would find GA-class articles which may have been missed by the Wikiproject I feel that points 3 and 4 for this taskforce would help make the WP:GAN process faster. This is because quality articles are easier to review, having "Wikiprojects" involved helps reviewers who may not be familiar with the topic being reviewed, and this would likely help to reduce the number of holds/second opinion requests on the GAN page. Any other thoughts on how this idea may work/be improved? Tarret talk 17:41, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
(note: I am moving this section to WT:GAN, where discussion of issues such as this normally takes place. Please continue there. Looie496 ( talk) 23:08, 7 July 2011 (UTC))
Hi. I really faced a dilemna with the Bernard Levin article as whether or not to list it under Language and literature or Media and journalism. The thing is he was very much a critic and writer, which is under Language and literature but is chiefly a journalist. I'd imagine this is not the first time an overlap has occurred. Maybe this category ought to be merged to include writers , journalists and critics in one and journalists and critics in particular often go hand in hand?♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:55, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi all, see Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know#Good_articles_redux. I've opened debate on a possible trial of 1-2 hooks of recently-listed GAs in each set of DYK hooks (3-4/day). Discuss there. Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 07:11, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
There's a proposal at Wikipedia talk:Good article criteria#WP:COPYVIO_not_mentioned_in_WIAGA to mention copyright violations (for text, not just for images) in the GACR. Please comment there. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 23:21, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi can someone else look at the GA nomination for Battle record of Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington. I left a note on article talk that being a list it was not eligible by the GA criteria. This resulted in abuse on my talk and as I have commented at Wikipedia:Wikiquette assistance that I am more than happy never to review or have any other interaction with MarcusBritish in the future. Could another reviewer decide it its eligible. Jim Sweeney ( talk) 18:49, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Alright, uninvolved admin here. As far as I can tell, Marcus nominated an article for GA, and Jim left a comment on the talk page that he didn't think it was eligible. He didn't fail the article. He didn't even start a GAN review. He just made a comment. Marcus told him to "mind his own biz" and called him a prig in the edit comment. Jim responded by asking him to apologize (a bit sanctimoniously, to be honest), and Marcus responded by flipping out, i.e. "arrogant, self-centred, obnoxious, Maccams who STALK my contribs, make malicious objections, and abuse their rights" etc. for another paragraph. Jim complained at etiquette central and here, and Marcus has continued to rant. Am I missing anything?
Because if not, Jim- in the future, "I will allow you to apologise for this edit summery [...] if not I will have to report it as unacceptable" comes off as condescending. Marcus was rude, true, but that's a bit passive-aggressive. Marcus- you need to chill the fuck out. Jim made a comment. You didn't need to be rude back, but whatever. But there was no need to flip out on his talk page, or start yelling about how everyone is conspiring against your article. Step back, calm down, come back later. The article will get reviewed regardless of whether Jim's a jerk, or you're a jerk, or I'm a jerk. -- Pres N 21:31, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Folks,
In the past few weeks I've seen a number of usernames come up over and over again in GA nominations and reviews in the music category. Upon further investigation of twelve editors, I found some reciprocity in their GA review practices. I have compiled data of their GA nominations and reviews, and have presented them in the here. Obviously, I do not believe all twelve are acting in concert, nor do I believe any of the editors is intentionally circumventing GAN policies. Nevertheless, I invite your participation in the discussion at that page's corresponding talk page, as there is some disagreement about acceptable practices. Thanks. Two Hearted River ( paddle / fish) 13:05, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
Does the community need to change its advice about the relationship between the six Good article criteria and essays and guidelines not specifically mentioned by the criteria? 00:48, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Good articles are assessed by a volunteer editor against the six Good article criteria. Articles that match the criteria are listed as Good articles. The GA criteria are not particularly stringent, as the goal is is to identify "good" or "decent" articles rather than Wikipedia's best articles. In particular, compliance with the vast majority of guidelines, such as WP:External links and about 90% of the WP:Manual of Style pages, is not required.
However, these non-required guidelines, essays, and advice pages written by WikiProjects often provide valuable advice, and in some cases they may inform an editor's view about whether an article meets the actual criteria.
For example, a person wishing to determine whether an article about a disease meets criteria 3(a) "addresses the main aspects of the topic" might look at WP:MEDMOS#Sections for a list of things that are typically included in disease-related articles, such as "Signs and symptoms", "Treatment", or "History". Existing advice encourages this: "For particular types of article, WikiProjects often provide helpful advice on what the main aspects are likely to be". It also cautions against overzealous application of such advice: "However, the decision to list or not list an article should be based on the GA criteria alone", not on whether these optional recommendations are followed precisely.
Earlier this year, some editors were in a dispute over the role of a WikiProject's advice page in reviewing articles nominated for GA status. One reviewer was concerned that project members wanted him to improperly exceed the GA criteria by requiring compliance with their guideline; members of the project were concerned that by ignoring their advice, he inadvertently might list articles that did not actually meet the GA criteria because the articles were confusing (criteria 1) or incomplete (criteria 3).
This RFC is intended as an opportunity to discuss whether the community needs to change its existing advice on this subject. Is the existing advice adequately clear to you? That is, do you believe that the existing advice helps you and other editors know how to benefit from such pages without exceeding the GA criteria? Or do you believe that additional explanations (please feel free to provide examples!) would be helpful to clear up confusion or otherwise help editors find the right balance?
(As I am interested more in "listening" than "talking" on this point, I'm going to withhold my opinion for now.) WhatamIdoing ( talk) 00:48, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Just wanted to know, which "class" of articles is better, GA or just plain A? CrashGordon94 ( talk) 08:23, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Apologies if this is an FAQ. After I have transcluded a GA review page on an article's talk page, I notice that further edits to the GA review are not reflected on the talk page. Presumably this is some sort of caching issue -- the question is, what do I have to do to cause the cache to be updated? Thanks for any info, Looie496 ( talk) 17:54, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
The nominations listed at WP:GAN include links to various aspects of each article, e.g. the article itself, talk, edit, history etc. but not a link to the actual GA review as far as I can see. I think it would be good if you could jump straight to the GA review, particularly if the article has a busy talk page and the review is transcluded right at the bottom. Would this be possible? -- Jameboy ( talk) 12:36, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Dear All, as you may have seen from your watch page a straw poll on a trial implementation of FlaggedRevisions is now open.So please look at the proposal and then vote here. if you feel so inclined. I bring it to notice because my paranoria says it might make add other difficulties to GAs; but that's me! Edmund Patrick – confer 19:58, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Would anyone be interested in another GA backlog elimination drive if I were to set one up? - Drilnoth ( talk) 04:04, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
This question relates to a GAR I'm currently involved in, but I'd like a general answer to the question rather than an opinion on the GAR.
My question is, if an article clearly violates a WP Guideline, such as WP:BLP can that be a criteria for removing it from the list of Good Articles? It seems to me that by definition, an article that violates guidelines cannot be classed as an official 'Good Article', but another has argued that unless it specifically contradicts Good Article Criteria (where it is not explicitly stated that Good Articles should follow basic WP guidelines), violating BLP is not an adequate reason to remove it from the list of Good Articles. Some clarification please! River sider ( talk) 20:17, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm not a member of this WikiProject, but I've created a userbox that you may be interested in. It's intended to let other users know when you're currently reviewing an article. Vantine84 ( talk) 08:08, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
This user is currently reviewing the article article title for good article status. |
I'm letting you guys know about it because a lot of what is said there is also relevant for you guys. Plus your feedback would definitely be both relevant and appreciated. Headbomb { ταλκ κοντριβς – WP Physics} 04:07, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
is it inactive? Res Mar 20:20, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.
All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. - Drilnoth ( talk) 00:29, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
are featured articles also good articles? -- 98.162.148.46 ( talk) 00:40, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
What would this article have to cover, as far as broadness is concerned, to be GA worthy? The article clearly needs expansion, but besides the sections it has now, what other sections would it need for a GA pass? -- Al Ameer son ( talk) 22:01, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Could use some help establishing consensus for the GA reassessment of BBC. — Levi van Tine ( t – c) 10:32, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
This might feel like deja vu for some of you, but anyway, I just found {{ Good Article}}, which mimics {{ featured article}} (puts a GA icon in the corner of a mainspace article). As far as I can tell, this is against all of the current consensus on what to do with GAs, and I have removed it from the few articles where it was transcluded. I am also considering taking it to TfD (actually, I briefly considered tagging it for speedy deletion as "recreation of deleted content", but since I can't see the deleted {{ Good article}} I'm not sure if it's exactly the same). rʨanaɢ talk/ contribs 23:50, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
FYI There is currently a discussion ongoing at WP:ANI#User:Gimmebot removing transclusions of GA reviews regarding whether a bot should be removing the transclusion of GA reviews pages while it tweaks the top business (article history, etc.). – xeno talk 23:54, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I need a second opinion of whether to pass or fail. Thanks. Viriditas ( talk) 10:02, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
I would like to update everyone on the GA sweeps process. Last month, only two articles were reviewed. This is definitely a low point after our peak at the beginning of the process with 163 articles reviewed in September 2007. After nearly two years, the running total has just passed the 50% mark. In order to expediate the reviewing, several changes have been made to the process. A new worklist has been created, detailing which articles are left to review. All exempt and previously reviewed articles have already been removed from the list. Instead of reviewing by topic, you can consider picking and choosing whichever articles interest you.
We are always looking for new members to assist with the remaining articles, so if you are interested or know of anybody that can assist, please visit the GA sweeps page. In addition, for every member that reviews 100 articles or has a significant impact on the process, s/he will get an award when they reach that threshold. If only 14 editors achieve this feat starting now, we would be done with Sweeps! Of course, having more people reviewing less articles would be better for all involved, so please consider asking others to help out. Let's work to complete Sweeps so that efforts can be fully focused on the backlog at GAN. If you have any questions about the process, reviewing, or need help with a particular article, please contact me or OhanaUnited and we'll be happy to help. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 03:57, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I want to suggest that we notify, appropriate wikiprojects on their talk pages when a related article get nominated, I can design a special template for that, and this will make more editors participate in reviewing the article, any thoughts?? thank you all :-) please if some one leaves a comment here notify me on my talk page -- MaenK.A. Talk 22:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
I am not the most experienced GA Reviewer (nor that active lately, but that's besides the point) and I work mainly with the professional wrestling articles. I see that a lot of pro wrestling articles are at the top of the "Needs to be reviewed" pile and since Project:Pro Wrestling don't seem to be concerned with flooding the GA there are like 15 or 16 GAs pending on that subject alone. I understand why some people would pass these up, I get it even if I'm a fan I know most people aren't. I've intentionally not reviwed pro wrestling related articles for a long time, I did not want anyone to think it was inappropriate or a conflict of interest even if I myself think I can be fair.
Would it be a bad idea if I reviewed Pro Wrestling related articles provided I have never worked on them before? Hell 99% of the articles here are about promotions I don't work on in general. If it's a conflict of interest and you advis against it, maybe I can make a deal with someone, a review for a review - every pro wrestling related GA review done I'll match it with a GA review of an article of the reviwers choice? MPJ-DK ( talk) 14:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Hello. What's the reason that GA articles don't get an icon in their top right corner in the same way that FA articles do? Thanks. Socrates2008 ( Talk) 12:42, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
The GA Sweeps process is continuing to move at a good pace, as June's total of swept articles reached 290! We are currently over 70% done with Sweeps, with just under 800 articles left to review. With nearly 50 members, that averages out to about 15 articles per person. If each member reviews an article every other day this month (or several!), we'll be completely finished. If everyone completes their reviews, Sweeps would be completed in less than two years when it was first started (with only four members!). With the conclusion of Sweeps, each editor could spend more time writing GAs, reviewing at the backlogged GAN, or focusing on other GARs. I am again inviting any experienced GAN/GAR reviewers to consider reviewing some articles. If you're interested please read the instructions here. The more editors, the less the workload, and hopefully the faster this will be completed. If you have any questions about reviews or the process let me know and I'll be happy to get back to you. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 20:22, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Just a note to let you know that a discussion about the relevance of GA status and the GA process to Wikipedia mathematics articles is underway at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mathematics#Mathematics_GA_status. The discussion was triggered by the recent delisting of the main mathematics article by Gary King as part of the current GA Sweep - a decision which has now been taken to GAR. However, the scope of the discussion is wider than the status of this single article. Gandalf61 ( talk) 09:27, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
GA Sweeps has over 400 articles left to review. If you have not contributed to Sweeps yet, now is your chance to help review the remaining articles so that existing Sweeps reviewers can return to fully focus on GAN (instead of splitting between the two as some reviewers have done). Choose whichever articles you are interested in as there are articles available on a variety of topics and of varying lengths. Awards are available at the conclusion of the drive for excellent reviews. If you have any questions, let me know. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 23:27, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Friends of Good articles, please help me out!
I have made a proposal to showcase good articles here. Please comment! GeometryGirl ( talk) 16:47, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Hi,
I have a question regarding the template {{ GAR/link}}. When this template is put onto a page, it categorizes the article into Category:Good article reassessment nominees. However, this happens only if the "status" parameter is not set. If the status is, for example, set to "on hold", the article disappears from the category. Is this intended?
My problem with this behaviour is that ArticleAlertbot scans this category for the purpose of notifying WikiProjects. If a GA is set to "on hold" very soon, the bot will currently not find it. (See bug report.) -- B. Wolterding ( talk) 00:03, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
See here. If this would be a better place to discuss, feel free to move. Thanks. Wknight94 talk 22:01, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Dear colleagues
This is a reminder that voting is open until 23:59 UTC next Monday 14 December to elect new members of the Arbitration Committee. It is an opportunity for all editors with at least 150 mainspace edits on or before 1 November 2009 to shape the composition of the peak judicial body on the English Wikipedia.
On behalf of the election coordinators. Tony (talk) 09:37, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
Hi, this is just a note that if you want to sign up for the 2010 WikiCup, then you have until 23:59 UTC on December 31 to do so. This can be done here. The WikiCup is a fun competition aiming at improving Wikipedia's content, with points awarded for featured articles, good articles, featured lists, featured pictures, featured sounds, featured portals, featured topics, good topics, did you know?, in the news and valued pictures. Over 170 people are already involved, but there's still time to sign up. If you have any questions, you are welcome to contact myself or one of the other judges on our talk pages or on IRC, or ask on one of the WikiCup talk pages. Hope to see some of you there. Thanks! J Milburn ( talk) 17:58, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks to everyone's efforts to the GA Sweeps process, we are currently over 90% done with only 226 articles remain to be swept! With over 50 members participating in Sweeps, that averages out to about 4 articles per person! We are open to any new members who would like to help us complete the remaining articles, so if you're interested in helping, please see the main page. If each member reviews an article once a week this month (or several!), we'll be completely finished. At that point, awards will be handed out to reviewers. As an added incentive, if we complete over 100 articles reviewed this month, I will donate $100 to Wikipedia Forever on behalf of all GA Sweeps participants. I hope that this incentive will help to increase our motivation for completing Sweeps while supporting Wikipedia in the process. When Sweeps is completed, more reviewers will be able to spend time in reviewing GANs to assist with the backlog. If you have any questions about reviews or Sweeps let me know and I'll be happy to get back to you. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 00:23, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Reviewing this for the sweeps, it occurs to me that this would be better classed as a list rather than a GA as it is predominately a series of one sentence paragraphs. I would appreciate guidance from others at Talk:Traditions and anecdotes associated with the Stanley Cup/GA1. Jezhotwells ( talk) 17:37, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Anybody up for one next month if I help organize it? – MuZemike 20:11, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Sure, I don't have a problem for, say, pushing it back to April, assuming the Sweeps get completed sometime next month. – MuZemike 18:16, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
Is there any reason good articles don't have a little green good icon logo at the top right corner of the page, like the star on a featured article? Has a possible template for this kind of thing been discussed and/or rejected before? — Hun ter Ka hn 16:31, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
I think it might be a good idea to subscribe to User:WolterBot/Cleanup listing subscription. The cleanup page at WP:Good articles/Cleanup listing hasn't been updated since November 2009 and many things have changed as a result of the sweeps and individual actions by reviewers. Any comments? –– Jezhotwells ( talk) 13:34, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I am trying to start a debate about defining what news organisations, as a reliable source, are good for and/or not good for. It is not as clearly defined as other similar reliable sources policies and it should be. Please see Wikipedia_talk:Identifying_reliable_sources#News_Organisations_section ~ R. T. G 19:03, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
Hi there,
Can someone tell me why there is a Link FA template on en:, but no corresponding Link GA ? (I am from fr:, where both are used). I understand you have a problem with your GAs, but Link GA is about foreign GAs. Sorry if it has already been discussed, I looked but couldn't find any reference. Oyp ( talk) 16:28, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Hi. I've been doing a lot of Wikipedia work at AfD and elsewhere but I'm completely new to the Good Article/Featured Article process. I've got a couple of articles that I've ended up creating or expanding that are now sitting at C-class - so, a long way from Good Article. I understand the GA criteria and I've looked at plenty of examples of Good Articles but I'm still a little stumped as to how to best direct my efforts to move my articles towards GA status. I'd appreciate some very brief notes from someone with some experience. The best example of an article I've worked on that might eventually reach GA is Paul Randall Harrington. Just a sentence or two on the talk page there about where my efforts could be best spent would be of help. Thanks. - DustFormsWords ( talk) 06:32, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
See my comment today at WT:GAN. - Dank ( push to talk) 18:01, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
There is a proposal to amend the GA criteria active at: Wikipedia_talk:Good_article_criteria#Not_Notable_GA.3F_Proposal_to_Amend_GA_Criteria Thank you. ɳorɑfʈ Talk! 04:32, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Since you are at it, if you adopt the GA star for English language articles, could you consider indicating foreign GAs ? Currently, foreign FAs are indicated using the template Link FA, but no template Link GA is in use. In all wikis I know, either none (on small wikis) or both (on large wikis) are in use, the case of en: is a bit weird in that regard. Oyp ( talk) 08:05, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
I have made a proposal at WT:ASSESS that is somewhat related to the issue of the FA star (and the desire for a GA icon). It looks at a broader issue by focusing more on helping readers understand our assessment system, rather than just focusing on recognizing quality content. Feedback, positive or negative, is strongly encouraged. – VisionHolder « talk » 01:27, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
I've made no comment on my enjoyment of wikipedia, but it certainly doesn't rest on changing anyone's mind about anything, as I've come to learn that's next to impossible. I'm simply saying that if my crystal ball had shown me that even though the quality of GAs is now far more consistent than it is for FAs, there would still be entrenched idealogical resistance to the idea of a green dot on the article page, then I wouldn't have taken part in the sweeps. Malleus Fatuorum 16:36, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Where has the idea come from that every sentence in an article must have a reference? I have seen this said in several reviews ( example). This is instruction creep of the worst kind. I am not for one moment advocating allowing unattributable material, but Wikipedia articles are already overcluttered with inline cites. WP:V makes a clear distinction between atributable, which is always required, and attributed, which is required for "anything challenged or likely to be challenged". SpinningSpark 17:46, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
What I try and do these days when editing is if I have a ref which supports several sentences in a row, leave a commented out comment on how many sentences or (or para) it supports. At which point it can be split later if things have to be rejigged. One day I hope there will be a show/hide option for the general reader, but I don't notice inlines myself at all these days. Casliber ( talk · contribs) 21:56, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
There is no real substitute for actually reading the refs and using your judgement. Littering the article with more than necessary cite tags and hidden comments is a pretty poor way of guarding against bad faith or OR editing. A fairly frequent vandal tactic is to just cut and paste an exisiting ref. Checking the edit history and then seeing if the refs actually support the diffs is the only sure way. Looking for gaps in a chain of tags tells you nothing. SpinningSpark 14:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
While there's been bickering above about whether to use the GA logo on pages, or what to do with assessments and the like, the backlog has quietly jumped back up again, only three weeks after our elimination drive. We kinda need some people to do reviews to at least break even; we don't have the energy to do another elimination drive in August, which may happen at this rate. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 20:02, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Once upon a time (i don't know for how long or how systematically) GAs had the GA symbol on the article page in much the same way as FAs have their little stars. When i raised this issue some time back, i recall it being said that we didn't add the GA symbol any more because of concerns about consistency of GA quality. It was suggested that we wait until after the sweeps before once again discussing whether adding the symbol would be a good idea. The sweeps are now finished, so I'm raising it. A related question raised by another editor is: should the same approach be taken to A-quality articles (a category used in some but not all Wikiprojects).
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Consensus has been reached in favour for GA symbol on mainspace. OhanaUnited Talk page 02:52, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
What do other GA regulars think? hamiltonstone ( talk) 03:12, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
decltype
(
talk)
02:52, 26 May 2010 (UTC)The reason I'm bringing this up is to illustrate that unless the project can demonstrate that things are somehow different since the last time having a GA symbol was discussed, I don't believe the outcome will be any different. There have certainly been improvements in transparency - for example, the introduction of dedicated sub-pages for reviewing and reassessing - but these were quite a while back and I fear the major stumbling block, as ever, is going to be the perceived unaccountability of GA's single reviewer system. EyeSerene talk 08:48, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
Other objections (Will readers know what the GA symbol means? Do most Wikipedians even know about GA? Would a symbol be for for the benefit of editors or readers? Should assessments be displayed in article space at all?) will be harder to address, but I think there are certainly things that GA could do to maximise its chances of eventually getting this through. EyeSerene talk 10:02, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
I have to say quite a number of those concerns are being raised in the abstract - without evidence - or based on people's past memories. And the test isn't whether the process is perfect but whether it is robust enough to give some reliable guidance to the reader. I recently saw an FA get up that contained clear original research - it doesn't mean i'm worried about the FAC process as a whole, and i was happy that there were easy steps to take to address it. I'm not sure there's much systemic evaluation being made here. I am however interested in the point about the recognisability of the GA symbol and how well understood it would be by the public readership. That's a good point. hamiltonstone ( talk) 03:31, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
This discussion makes me wonder: what proportion of the GAs reviewed in the sweeps were found to be wanting? Are there other data points which make the case either way that GA is or is not a reliable standard? -- Nasty Housecat ( talk) 16:25, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Some more comments:
– MuZemike 00:57, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Having thought hard, I have a slightly more pressing concern. Do we want to be announcing something as "good" to the world (ie a form of endorsement or recommendation), that is in principle open to manipulation by someone with a biased view and a reviewer of the same biased viewpoint? I'm concerned that this proposal has good value in that it promotes article quality and encourages attention to GA's... but might promote a kind of "politicization" of GAs for POV purposes. On the flip side most GAs do get multiple eyeballs and can be revoked or questioned if there were a doubt. If GAs get more formal recognition will there be a way to encourage wider eyeballs to counter anything like this? For example, a list of GA nominees, similar to RFC? I'd like to hear more thoughts on this before casting a view either way. I like the idea of promoting GAs, but not if it is likely to increase POV. FT2 ( Talk | email) 20:33, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks in advance for everyone's input. hamiltonstone ( talk) 22:20, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Wide publicity will be good. I don't want people surprised later. That seems like it keeps happening (with other things, not related to this). Maurreen ( talk) 07:52, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
Please see WP:PEREN. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 13:25, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
This has been listed at WP:CENT, and a note posted at WP:VPR, but I would suggest that some additional efforts (RfC, Signpost, posting to Wikiprojects ... anything else that might help) be taken to add visibility. I can't think of many changes one could make to Wikipedia that would be as visible to editors as the addition of a new symbol to mainspace articles; I think every effort should be taken to ensure that the many editors who would be startled by seeing the GA symbol in mainspace would be reassured on reading the discussion that led to that outcome. There is certainly plenty of support being expressed; let's be sure that it's as broad a consensus as possible before making the change. A separate point: if an RfC is undertaken I would like to suggest that it include, as an option, the choice of eliminating the FA star from mainspace articles. Mike Christie (talk) 00:26, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Consensus was reached in the above discussion. Now how does one go about adding that symbol to the top of the article? I was hoping the project page would've been updated with the info. Thanks! – Kerαunoςcopia◁ galaxies 19:35, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Now that this was done Template:Link GA needs to be resurrected and the bot (!?) adding symbols can mark foreign GAs with symbols in the "languages" as well. The German and Persian Wikis have bots that do that together with adding foreign FA stars. Hekerui ( talk) 20:03, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
I put at request at WP:BOTREQ#GA symbol. Ucucha 12:39, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be an RFC or project notification or something for this? I had no idea this discussion was going on. It sounds like something that should be addressed site-wide, not just at this project. — Gendralman ( talk) 22:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
(undent) From my reading there appears to be only support for GA and FA. No support is present for either A or any other classification level. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 23:21, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
An admin needs to do the work to get {{ Link GA}} to work and show the GA icon next to interwiki language links. The following pages need to be edited to make it work:
And you're done. Gary King ( talk) 18:45, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
I use User:OhanaUnited/assessment.js (which is the script that User:Outriggrcreated before he deleted it himself). The problem is that for any page with {{ Good article}}, the assessment will say that it is an FA..... Is there any way to quickly fix the script without completely rewriting it? OhanaUnited Talk page 03:59, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Just a word of thanks to those that successfully got this policy changed and to those that are implementing it through the templates and bots. As someone who's gotten over 25 articles to GA and done at least that many reviews, it's good to see visible acknowledgment popping up on articles of the work that's gone into articles with GA status. Wasted Time R ( talk) 15:37, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Please see proposal here. Crum375 ( talk) 11:46, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
I think the green plus sign works quite well as a symbol that clearly represents (I suspect even to readers who don't know the ins and outs of Wikipedia) that the article is quality-marked, but not as high quality as a shiny star - so kudos to its creator for that. Other suggestions, like a silver star, would have been far worse at communicating this idea. But when it appears in small scale the symbol is not so graphically clear, particularly compared to the FA star. There are two particular aspects to this:
For what it's worth I do like the current, tilted design for use on pages like WP:GA - when in its larger incarnation, the tilt makes what is otherwise quite a basic symbol stand out far more.
Does what I wrote seem reasonable? I'm not capable of producing new graphics myself, but I do think the white background of the link GA template, and the fact that the top right article icon is oriented differently to the FA star equivalent, seem out of place. TheGrappler ( talk) 22:25, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
The discussion above did not discuss foreign/interwiki good articles, and yet it is being used to justify the position that all articles deemed "good" by the sister Wikipedias in other languages should be so marked in the interwiki sidebar of English Wikipedia articles. I come to this via a clear instance of where this was a bad idea, where Spanish Wikipedia has deemed "good" a translation from an English Wikipedia article version riddled with WP:OR, which was problematic enough to require extensive cleanup labors here on English Wikipedia. In a nutshell, would the community here, which relied on arguments like "GAN is now pretty rigorous," have endorsed "GAN is now pretty rigorous on all other Wikipedias, too"?
While I don't have a problem with the interwiki stars for foreign FA's (often these are great articles, though there too there are sometimes cases where the star marks an article decidedly inferior to the non-FA here), it doesn't appear to me that GA standards ("now pretty rigorous" here but still developing elsewhere) are ready for prime time in this way. Beside an interwiki link, an icon probably means to most readers who notice it, "Even though you're looking on the English Wikipedia, if you care to look in another language there's an impressive treatment of this subject available elsewhere." I can buy that for an interwiki FA in a way I can't for a GA approved by other local standards and processes.
I'm not sure how enforceable the consensuses reached here are supposed to be, but it appears that in any case none was reached on the interwiki case, and I suggest that there are good reasons to consider against extending the use of the GA icon to the interwiki sidebar. Wareh ( talk) 19:43, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
I think the FA vs. GA difference is very real, but to see it we have to forget theoretical consistency (pointing out that local standards are different for FA's too) and use practical judgment and common sense. Other Wikipedias' FA's might be completely unworthy of that designation on Wikipedia-en, but are generally excellent articles worth checking out for anyone interested. Other Wikipedias' GA's are far more likely to be completely inadequate articles, so that putting green stars with them, as Pyrotec says, threatens to "bring the GA system [here] into disrepute." There are only so many times I will click over to an interlanguage "good" article and see shoddy work (quite likely translated from an English version that won no accolades) before I will just roll my eyes at the green pluses under interwiki. Practically speaking, this is not such a danger with FA's. Wareh ( talk) 13:16, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
Many others wikis have been marking English GAs as such for ages, even though their overall quality was dubious. The right way to address the situation was to improve these English GAs, not unmark them in other wikis, and I am really glad this was done. That said, everyone above is assuming that foreign GAs are often less good than English GAs, or, at the very best, as good as them. For the record, here is the situation on the French wiki: when an FA is translated from en: and improved, it is generally proposed for the GA label. When a GA is translated, it is rarely proposed for any label. Specific cases may be different, of course. Despite this, I found no record of anybody suggesting not to mark foreign GAs or FAs on fr:. Oyp ( talk) 07:28, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
If I were to make a proposal, it would be: interwiki GA marking via Template:Link GA is fine if done by a human editor in the belief that attracting the user's notice to the article in another language is useful. Knowledgeable editors competent to review the foreign articles should feel free to remove the GA link if they judge it is to an inferior article (as I have done at Pederasty in ancient Greece). The basic idea here is that the raw informational value of having every foreign GA marked (when done without thought or subject-area knowledge) is outweighed by the fact that so many of those markings would be of articles that no reasonable and competent judge would consider useful as supplementary reading or as material from which to improve the English article. Wareh ( talk) 15:01, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
It seems the main concern with GAs becoming hook is that the people over at DYK feel that it would increase their work load. Wondering if we would be interested in generating DYK hooks here at GA? This section of the main page would than be a combined effort of these two groups. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 19:48, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
I have never understood why the current GA symbol is used. Personally, I don't like it and never have because it doesn't seem to represent anything. I have not taken issue with it since it was hidden away on talk pages. However, now that it is being displayed in articles, perhaps we could create a more professional and recognizable symbol. I propose the creation of a green star using the FA star as the model. I believe this would be better representation of quality work, but noting a difference from "gold star" quality work.-- William S. Saturn ( talk) 22:51, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
See the thread here for the proposal.-- William S. Saturn ( talk) 18:22, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
I have filed a request for a bot that would check usage of the {{ Good article}} template, and add it to eligible pages that don't transclude it. See Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Good Article Patrol Bot. Robert Skyhawk ( T C B) 03:36, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Can somebody please write a more explicit set of directions for listing an article for GA review please? -- Iankap99 ( talk) 22:53, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
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Thanks. — Headbomb { ταλκ κοντριβς – WP Physics} 09:12, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)
Previous discussion in some of the above sections seemed to demonstrate a range of opinions about which icon to use, and perhaps it'd be a good idea to bring them together. At the very least, even if we keep the current tilted plus sign symbol for our "article corner" icon, we need to replace it as our "interlanguage link" icon by something that has the correct background color! (And probably should be simplified like the interwiki FA star, since at small size its key features are not easily visible). Rather than jump straight into an unstructured discussion or vote about whose idea is best, I think it would be worthwhile to collect two kinds of ideas together: what criteria we want to judge an icon by, and what alternative proposals exist (for both the article corner and the interlanguage link icon, which, as for FA, need not be exactly the same and may have different requirements). Feel free to add ideas and suggestions the list below! I've picked out those that I've seen in the discussions above (somewhat paraphrased - if you feel misrepresented, please change!), in the order they appear to occur. TheGrappler ( talk) 12:13, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
How about ({{check mark}}
)? It fulfills all of those criteria easily. It's green, scalable, 2D, simple (less attention-grabbing than the gold star), instantly recognizable (simple silhouette), somewhat subtle, and meaningful. Plus, no one could confuse it for a higher designation than FA—the difference in quality between a check mark and a gold star is obvious. —
Designate (
talk)
21:24, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
is what they use on the Spanish Wikipedia. Locos suggested it above as something that compromises between the benefits of "checklist" - as Designate points out, it would be "green, scalable, 2D, simple (less attention-grabbing than the gold star), instantly recognizable (simple silhouette), somewhat subtle, and meaningful. Plus, no one could confuse it for a higher designation than FA" - but also recognizable similar to the current symbol. And it's also used in a major Wikipedia in a different language. I'm feeling very persuaded by this one. TheGrappler ( talk) 16:47, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure that we can assume that among all the international readers of Wikipedia that the relative positions of a star and either a plus sicn or a tick will be obvious. The colour schemes would again not be obvious to everyone. On the other hand, I can't imagine people being confused that a half-star is good but not as good as a full star.-- Peter cohen ( talk) 18:01, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
The article William O'Connell Bradley was first listed as GA in May 2007. It also passed a reassessment in June 2009. However, I gained access to several more sources between May 2007 and now, and undertook a substantial expansion of the article in my user space. Having finished the expansion, I transferred the expanded article to the main space. I'd like to have the article reassessed to make sure I haven't introduced any problems that would cause it to forfeit its GA status. I'm also looking forward to a FA run in the near future, and any comments from a GA reassessment will just make that go more smoothly. I started to list it at WP:GAR, but that seems to be for articles where someone is claiming the article no longer meets the GA requirements or where there is a dispute as to whether or not it does. Neither of those is the case. I've just made a substantial expansion of the article and want some assurance that I haven't introduced any problems before moving forward. What is the correct procedure for this? Acdixon ( talk • contribs • count) 16:47, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
The discussion above continues to address, as a technical and graphical issue, how best to indicate that an interlanguage link will take a reader to an article deemed "good" by a sister Wikipedia, even if that article may be (as in the case that brought the issue to my attention) merely a translation of an English article with profound problems that would never have a chance at passing GAR. (I summarized before: "The basic idea here is that the raw informational value of having every foreign GA marked (when done without thought or subject-area knowledge) is outweighed by the fact that so many of those markings would be of articles that no reasonable and competent judge would consider useful as supplementary reading or as material from which to improve the English article.") In the previous discussion (see now the archive), there was no consensus about the propriety of indicating GA status of interlanguage articles.
I do not want to adopt an extreme position that would not win consensus (for example, that Template:Link GA should never be used), but I am concerned that while User:AstaBOTh15 did cease automatic and mindless use of the template on June 7 (in response to our discussion here, I assume), its additions of GA interlanguage links have not all been reverted or reviewed, and no policy has been formulated about the issue here.
Therefore I would like to submit a proposal to a vote and discussion.
Proposed: Interwiki GA articles should only be marked as such (with Template:Link GA) by a human editor, and in the belief that attracting the user's notice to the article in another language is useful. Knowledgeable editors competent to review the foreign articles should feel free to remove the GA link if they judge it is to an inferior article. Past automatic and unconsidered use of Template:Link GA should be reverted in favor its considered and informed use in the future. Wareh ( talk) 18:19, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
decltype
(
talk)
18:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)This proposal in a nutshell: The instructions at Wikipedia:Good article nominations will be expanded to promote checking of newly nominated pages against the quick fail criteria. |
WP:GAN#How to review an article will have a second set of steps included, recommending that newly listed GA nominees be checked against the quickfail criteria and concisely explaining how to do so. A {{ QFCheck}} template in the vein of {{ GAReview}} will be created to tag listings that have been checked so that time will not be wasted by multiple reviewers scanning the same article. Articles which do not pass the quickfail criteria will be removed from the list with a brief justification posted to the article talk page, as happens at present.
Through implementing this system we can reduce the average wait time to nomination assessment by removing obviously unfit nominations rapidly, thereby raising efficiency for both writers and reviewers. This proposal may also help increase reviewer recruitment, by lowering the bar of entry to new reviewers who wish to help but are intimidated by the prospect of doing a full GA review. It will also increase transparency in the review process, reduce duplication of effort by reviewers looking for easy articles to clear off the page, lower the noise level at WP:GAN by ensuring that all pages waiting to be reviewed are actually review-worthy, and may even serve to reduce the number of woefully inadequate GA nominations by publicizing what the minimum criteria for consideration are. -- erachima talk 22:46, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone have any objection to or input on implementing the proposal I made here to reorganise the space and astronomy categories. I would like to sort the issue out before that talk page gets archived, however the talk page has not been active enough to generate sufficient discussion. Please direct replies there. Thanks -- G W … 20:38, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
FYI. Airplaneman ✈ 06:02, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
I mentioned at Wikipedia_talk:Good_article_nominations#Elimination_Backlog_coordinated_with_WP:CUP that it is worth thinking about coordinating a backlog elimination drive to be timed to offset the surge in creations for the WP:CUP finals in October. I am beginning to ramp up my production and imagine the other finalist are probably going to be doing so as well.-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 06:14, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps this might be a time to consider the discrepancy in reward between the nominators and the reviewers? It's easy to see why an editor might nominate, but why review? Malleus Fatuorum 23:58, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
A bit late now, but perhaps the problem with the WikiCup "glut" producing a blockage could actually solve itself, by including good article reviews in future WikiCup scoring systems? TheGrappler ( talk) 23:34, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
I think that awarding Cup points for GAN reviews is a bad idea because it creates the possibility of gaming the system: Cup participants give shoddy reviews to each other's articles. And while I'd like to assume that wouldn't happen, it's always best to avoid setting up a coi. (Side note: when you guys say you've done dozens of GAN reviews, it's a little off-putting to someone who might be enticed to doing one or two. Like me. Or someone following the "request one, do one" rule HJ Mitchell brought up.) HereToHelp ( talk to me) 02:39, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't think that there's liable to be a problem with crappy reviews if the judges can validate each review and throw out the bad ones. Contestants will be more careful if they know that somebody's going to review their reviews; that's just human nature.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 04:53, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
No disrespect to CUP contestants intended, but I would rather it took slightly longer to get a review than encourage by-the-numbers reviews. The former ensures a steady stream of quality content, whereas the latter threatens the integrity of the entire system. Of course the WikiCup editors are free to run their project in any way they wish, but we ought to carefully consider the incentives here. Skomorokh 08:58, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Is there any interest in holding the proposed Backlog Elimination Drive in October? I ask because October is eight days away and nothing has happened as far as page creation or organization. I'm willing to help out with the organization of this drive if there's sufficient interest. – Grondemar 04:41, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
(Don't know if this is the best place, but... ) I was looking at the Dean Witter Reynolds article, and I was surprising to see that the GA review had been deleted as the creation of a banned user. As far as I can tell, it was never officially passed / passed at all. Am I missing something? - Jarry1250 Humorous? Discuss. 18:41, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Can I please get a second opinion here? Should only take a minute- basically, are the current reviews enough, or are more needed? Sorry if I'm doing this wrong, I'm in a bit of a rush... J Milburn ( talk) 11:02, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
I don't think LivingBot ( talk · contribs) and GA bot ( talk · contribs) are doing such a good job of keeping Wikipedia:Good articles/recent up to date.-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 19:36, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Please discuss, at Wikipedia_talk:Good_article_nominations#Proposed_change_to_GAN_instructions_.3D_all_nominators_must_review. -- Cirt ( talk) 13:38, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
I just wanted to get some feedback on a new template I've created that might help article reviewers and/or promoters keep better track of the discussions associated with an article.
Template:Rating icon takes in two parameters, the first being a page name, and the second being a type. It then generates a 16x16 icon of the user's choosing that links to the chosen page. I did this so I could have a list on my user page of links to both an article and its promotion discussion, without taking up more space.
--
Gyrobo (
talk)
21:05, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
Hello! As you may be aware, the Wikimedia Foundation is gearing up for our annual fundraiser. We want to hit our goal, and hit it as soon as possible, so that we can focus on Wikipedia's tenth anniversary (January 15) and on our new project, the Contribution Team.
I'm posting across WikiProjects to engage you, the community, in working to build Wikipedia not only through financial donations, but also through collaboration in building content. You can find more information in Philippe Beaudette's memo to the communities here.
Please visit the Contribution Team page and the Fundraising page to find out how you can help us support and spread free knowledge. ⇒ DanRosenthal Wikipedia Contribution Team 18:57, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps we should have a rule that a reviewer cannot review more than 5 articles from any given nominator. There are a few cases where pairings are developing and editors A and B are reviewing too many of each other's articles. This results in a less rigorous review, and the potential for a drifting away from community-wide standards. Ideally, a nominator would receive input from a different reviewer on each GA nomination. Racepacket ( talk) 17:12, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
I have learned something from every GA review that I received and from every GA review that I have written. Hence, there is a concern about becoming "inbred" because the process will not be as beneficial if the same people work with each other all the time. If we can't have a hard rule, could we start soft measures that would discourage it. For example, we could add a statement on the GAN page instructions encouraging people to spread around the reviews. As another example, what would happen if the robot that creates the review page, automatically includes a statement that the nominator and reviewer have been paired X times in the past. That type of disclosure would cause a cringe factor as X starts to grow. Racepacket ( talk) 17:32, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Bad idea. We have a shortfall on # of reviewers. This only worsens the situation. OhanaUnited Talk page 22:01, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm not convinced that these proposals have any bearing on the "problem" that is claimed to exist. The stated target was "the same people work with each other all the time" and it hints about wrong doing, but it makes absolutely no effort to consider or deal with this problem, if it exists since no evidence has been provided that standards have been lowered. To reiterate, I've reviewed more than five articles from the same editor in the last two years, and for more than one nominator; and in the case of one editor (I could name, but have not done so) these were mostly upgraded in a very short time to FAs. This belies the claim that I and unnamed others are lowering standards. I would strongly suggest that we are raising standards, not lowering them. The second proposal is that I and others should be "embarrassed" by a message such as this is the "ninth review that Pyrotec has done for editor A (hopefully a made up name, I've not reviewed any articles by editor A)". So what. It is a matter of fact that no such editor A has reviewed my nominations on a one-for-one or even on a one-for-one-hundred basis. If the intention is to discourage "you pass my nomination and I'll pass yours" reviews then assuming bad faith and seeking to embarrass/attack reviewers who have reviewed more that some arbitrary number of nominations proposed by Racepacket from the same nominator is a strange of addressing a problem that may not exist. Let's be clear, the stated aim seems to be to discourage "editors A and B are reviewing too many of each other's articles", yet all the proposals seem to be discouraging editor A from carrying out more than one (well, 5 or more) of editor B's WP:GANs, which is hardly the same thing. Pyrotec ( talk) 10:17, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Pretty clear consensus against. Binksternet ( talk) 10:53, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Why did the bot make this edit which changed the date of a GA promotion from today to November 14?-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 20:22, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Ordinarily, I wouldn't attempt to "cut in line", but I was wondering if anyone could review my nomination of John Y. Brown, Jr. If passed, it would complete my 61-article Kentucky Governors good-topic-in-waiting. It took over 2 months to get it reviewed last time, but the review hit the day after my first child was born, so I didn't have sufficient time to address the concerns at that time. I've tried to address most of the concerns now, and I'm off work through the end of the year, so the next couple of weeks would be a great time for me to address concerns and get this good topic nominated. Thanks in advance. Acdixon ( talk • contribs • count) 16:21, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
I couldn't find this written down anywhere, so I'd thought I'd ask: when a page moves from one title to another, should the GA subpages move to the new title as well? I would think that you would want them to move, to prevent them from possibly becoming associated with a new article at the old title. Thoughts? – Grondemar 00:31, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
I've probably missed something obvious, and this is irking me more than it should, but why have neither Somerhill House nor Robert and Thomas Wintour been listed as on hold? The bot doesn't even recognise that I'm the reviewer? J Milburn ( talk) 00:03, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
Extra clarification could help get additional good reviewers. Just went through my first submission, and also just started my first review, so I'm at a point where I notice this stuff where an expert wouldn't. The details on the nuts and bolts regarding administration (templates, tagging, updating status, review pages etc.) are just a few notes scattered here and there.
Which leads me to my suggested clarification/ question of the moment. For a passed article, is the a recommended way to handle the review page? I'm assuming that this would include un-transcluding it. But the, does the page stay as a GA1 page, or get moved into the article archives or .....??? Thanks North8000 ( talk) 13:22, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
As I mentioned, I'm still at the newbie/dummy level regarding the GA process, and so I can still see some not-very-explained things that the experts can't see. After reading the above, my suggestions are:
Sincerely, North8000 ( talk) 12:26, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
For example, I'm almost finished reviewing an article. Now, if and when it passes, where is the part that says: Here's what you do when article passes:
So, I'm hunting around and will take some guesses. Is it just putting the template on the main article page? Or modifying other templates? I'm guessing that I don't have to mark the list because it says that the robot does at least some parts of it (who knows which parts it does and doesn't do?) And what do I do that triggers the robot to do that. ? North8000 ( talk) 03:18, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
In my opinion, it helps to leave the review transcluded even after the review closes and to keep it in that chronological place on the talk page until the page rolls off into a page-wide archive process. If the article fails, the review will allow editors browsing the talk page to see the unaddressed deficiency in the article. If the article passes, the review may contain suggestions for future improvement. How does transclusion hurt? Removing the transclusion is imposing just one more task on the GA reviewer. As to the argument that FACs are not transcluded, a FA is much further along in the process, so it may provide as much benefit toward future action as does a GA review. Racepacket ( talk) 06:10, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi,
Theses days, I’m translating Hôtel de Blossac from the french GA article. I assume that be a GA on fr.WP doesn’t means it will be automatically a GA on en.WP but I wonder : is there somewhere a multilingual comparison or an history of the GAs ? (or FAs, or others languages). Basically, the criteria seems pretty equal (see WP:GA? and fr:WP:GA). In facts, is it me or the french-speaking GA criteria seems a little more harder to get ? A galon, VIGNERON * discut. 17:22, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
I recently saw a GAC closure with which I completely disagree- is there a procedure for this? I had a look around, and I couldn't find one... J Milburn ( talk) 18:31, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
Hello, could I please have a third opinion on the style of attribution used in this article? You'll see what I mean when you look at the review. The article's author feels it is appropriate for this type of article, while I feel it is a poor academic style. J Milburn ( talk) 12:22, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Please comment at Wikipedia_talk:Good_article_nominations#New_function_for_GA_bot.-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 16:55, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
There's an ongoing discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (embedded lists) in which Kudpung and other editors assert that GA reviewers are inappropriately insisting on the conversion of embedded lists into prose. They propose that the MoS guideline be changed to explicitly exempt their preferred types of lists.
I think it would be useful to have some experienced GA reviewers involved in this discussion. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 02:26, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
I know this is about 3 months away, but as they say, it's never too early to plan early! Anyways, I think another GAN backlog elimination drive for this coming April would be a good idea. Some stuff we can probably discuss right now:
If anyone has any other ideas, go ahead and shoot away. – MuZemike 21:48, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
Looks like we have at least a rough consensus to have the next GAN backlog elimination drive next month, so one should come up with a Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/GAN backlog elimination drives/March 2011 in the works within the next two weeks or so. The only other questions that I mentioned above remain, if anyone wishes to comment. – MuZemike 19:49, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
British Pakistanis has been promoted to GA status without a review page being created. According to the editor who promoted the article, the review is implicit in the decision (see here). I've raised this issue at Wikipedia talk:Good articles. Comments there would be appreciated. Cordless Larry ( talk) 09:44, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Please consider this sentence:
Following the announcement by Strauss, in 12 May, the manufacturer sent sale proposals to five prospective airlines, which included Lufthansa and Swissair.
in light of the WP:GACR #2b:
(b) reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
With these criteria, I don't think we could legitimately require an inline citation for this statement, which are required only for five types of statements:
It's not a direct quotation. It contains a date and a number, but it's not a statistic. It's not an opinion. It's not counter-intuitive or controversial. It's not been challenged, and it's not WP:LIKELY to be challenged. It's not about a living person.
And yet, I want an inline citation for it. I think it's the date that bothers me: Specific dates are easily vandalized and too often included when they are of no importance (especially for events that happened while the article was being written).
What do you think? Would you fail an article over the lack of an inline citation for this sentence? Should all dates be supported by inline citations? WhatamIdoing ( talk) 21:20, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
I just had a similar experience. The article said, "As it passes amidst heavily wooded terrain with some houses alongside the roadway, SR 372 travels past an intersection with North Ridge Road, then abruptly comes to an end as it crosses the western boundary of Scioto Trail State Forest. The roadway continues eastward from this point as CR 199.[4]" However, reference #4 was a map which showed the road continue past the forest boundary as SR 372. I challenged the statement, and the nominator said the map was wrong. I argued that a different source was needed because both claiming the map was wrong was counter-intuitive and the route number was like a statistic. Both the nominator and User:Imzadi1979 argued that criteria 2b does not require an inline citation ("a name, not a statistic.") Ultimately, the nominator rewrote the sentence to supply a better source for the highway designation ending at the boundary and removing the reference to CR 199. However, it is troubling that a nominator would put a specific fact into an article and source it with something that said the exact opposite. Racepacket ( talk) 11:14, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
I'm about to send a bot notice to the current WP:WPGA members about the upcoming GAN backlog elimination drive. What I was also thinking of doing was sending out a "WikiProject membership update" notice on top of that. Here's how it would work: for instance, at WikiProject Video games and the Nintendo task force, we keep our "active membership" up-to-date by temporarily moving everyone to an "Inactive members" list and then send a notice to all members to update their status by moving their username from the "Inactive list" to the "Active list". After a period of time passes (at WP:VG and WP:NIN, that has been a month), we remove the "Inactive list", which leaves us with an up-to-date list of project members. Thoughts about that? – MuZemike 19:07, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
I know the historical context involved. Yes, GAN reviews used to be conducted directly on article talk pages, but we went to subpage reviewing years ago. No other process places its reviews on the talk pages. XfDs don't. FACs/FARCs aren't transcluded. PRs don't. I don't know of any dedicated ACR process that does. I think it's time that the bot stops automatically transluding the reviews to the talk page. Once the review is started, either the bot or the reviewer will change the status of the template at the top of the talk page to "onreview" or "onhold". Either way will signal a nominator that there has been changes to their nomination's status. The template has a link to the review page, and the {{ ArticleHistory}} will have a record of the review and a link to the page once that bot updates the talk page (if the reviewer doesn't do so himself when closing the review.) Imzadi 1979 → 18:42, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
I think that it is beneficial to have the review left as transcluded. If at some point, the article editors want to establish an archive procedure for the talk page, the transclusion can migrate off the page with other material of that vintage. With many highway articles, the review is the only substantive debate regarding the content of the article, and it is helpful for readers who do not understand how to access reviews through the article milestone banner to see it. Racepacket ( talk) 11:18, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
In cases where one GA review was failed and the nominator immediately re-nominates, it might be helpful to keep the first review transcluded until the later review is completed, just so that analysis will not be overlooked. Racepacket ( talk) 08:33, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
I left a message at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:GAN#Talk:Netball_in_the_Cook_Islands.2FGA3 , but did not receive any advice, so I am raising it here. If two editors are working together (almost as co-nominators) at a GA review for a main article, and one of the editors creates a country-specific spin off article from it, with the other editor making substantive changes to the spin off article in the last few weeks ( diff and diff), if the first editor nominates the spin off article for GA, can the second editor be the reviewer? In other words, what does "made significant contributions to it prior to the review" really mean? Racepacket ( talk) 08:35, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow reviewers, Just a heads up for those that need it. Credo Reference has donated 400 free user accounts to Wikipedia. They are now taking applications. GA reviewers qualify (provided you meet the other requirements). Click on the link to find out more. Just thought I'd let you know. Cheers. – SMasters ( talk) 03:40, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
One of our Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation contributors has provided this report this list of 4,000 "Good articles" containing errant links to disambiguation pages. Because of our current (and ever-growing) backlog of about 780,000 ambiguous links, I have proposed to have a bot place a "disambiguation needed" tag on these links. Obviously, good articles should not contain bad links, and these tags will alert the editors most familiar with the subject matter of these articles to the links requiring repair, hopefully enabling such repairs to be carried out quickly. Please let me know if anyone has any other ideas for resolving this issue. Cheers! bd2412 T 13:26, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
Keeping on the netball theme, we have an odd situation on Talk:Netball/GA1. User:LauraHale nominated the article and approached User:Bill_william_compton to do the review on March 5. The review quickly ran into problem because when Bill noted areas requiring work, LauraHale would ask for specific instructions on how to fix them and instead of treating those as merely examples, she thought that they were the exhaustive list of all such occurances of the problem. In addition, Bill took a wikibreak for a couple of days and there was miscommunications. Based on that, LauraHale asked for a replacement reviewer and Bill advertised for the post and I volunteered. Just as I was getting started, User:KnowIG also began to provide a detailed review.
I tried to consolidate a list of issues and my own suggested edits and found LauraHale difficult because when I asked her a question or raised a concern, she tried to change the subject to the fact that I was not using British spelling in communicating with her on the talk or review page. (Both LauraHale and I grew up in Illinois.)
Finally, she proposed that we end the review, give the active editors a week to fix the article and then have a new nominator and new reviewer do a separate GA review. I responded that I was willing to continue and to keep the review on hold during that week. Rather than reply to my suggestion, she edited the talk page with the "failed" template. Based on our prior discussions over Talk:U.S. Route 223/GA2 I have restored the "onhold" template and am willing to work with the other editors to complete the review.
I welcome the guidance of other project members on how to handle such situations. Thanks, Racepacket ( talk) 15:56, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
I agree with much of what has been said and understand the "collective responsibility" aspect. There are two concerns: 1) If there are five or six active editors on the article, and the nominator unilaterally asks to withdraw, wouldn't it make more sense to canvass the other editors to see if the consensus is to finish the review? 2) If the reviewer has invested hours in reading the sources, checking for close paraphrasing, checking for accuracy, shifting reviewers seems like a terrible waste of volunteer resources. It seems to me that we should stick with the formality of the reviewer being the one to close the review. The nominator can post on the review page, "I wish to withdraw." If the reviewer believes that there may be a misundertanding to clear up, they can discuss it before closing down the review page. I don't think that the nominator should just unilaterally edit the GAfail template without discussing it with the reviewer. In many cases, the problem could be solved with a second opinion on a narrow issue, rather than start the process over again from the beginning. Our guidance should also include some of what was discussed above so that reviewers will know what is or is not acceptable behavior: 1) can the reviewer repost unaddressed concerns on the talk page? 2) can the reviewer make comments on the next review page as a non-reviewer? 3) Can the first reviewer start a GAR if he honestly believes that the second review mis-applied the criteria? 4) Can the first reviewer leave a note on the FAC discussion? Some nominators' egos are fragile and take constructive criticism as "harrassment," so guidance is needed. Racepacket ( talk) 20:05, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
Related to a comment above: I'm curious how many hours you commonly spend on a single GA review?
I realize that it will vary dramatically by length of article, what condition it's in, how much you know about the subject, how easily you can get at the sources, etc. But I'm curious what a typical review looks like, so if you wouldn't mind, please think about the last review or two you finished, and post a note below.
Please keep in mind that there is no 'right answer': a short time does not mean that the reviewer was lax or lazy, and a long time could mean that the reviewer wasted hours arguing with editors over trivialities.
I'll start: I believe that I spent at least four and probably closer to five hours all together on my last GA review, most of it obtaining or double-checking sources. This is a bit on the long side for me, but it was a technical subject that I didn't know much about. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 23:33, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
I have spent 5 hours on many reviews and in some cases considerably more time. If I am picking up a review that was started by someone else and know where he/she left off in the process it can take less time (e.g, Talk:Don't Forget the Bacon!/GA1). Similarly, if the article is very short, it can take less time. There are three variables: 1) the number of references, 2) the quality of the article and 3) the degree of interaction with the article's editors. In one case, Talk:Margaret Thatcher/GA3 the article was being revised so rapidly and massively that it was a challenge to keep up and scrutinize the edits contemporaneously. Racepacket ( talk) 05:07, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
My GA reviews tend to go pretty rapidly, because I'm familiar with the subject, and I know common mistakes that road editors tend to make in their articles (I've been editing road articles for over 6 years now). Also, road articles tend to be shorter compared to the bulk of GANs. -- Rs chen 7754 05:12, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
I noticed that good articles and featured articles have a small mark at the top corner close to the search bar (depending on what WikiTheme you use), but articles with GA or FA nominations do not. I believe that a mark that identifies that said article is nominated for GA or FA status, and links to the discussion as well can save a few seconds of people's time instead of having to go to the article and hit talk page to reach or start the discussion. Now I understand that this can be a lot of labor to apply to the articles currently in these processes, but I believe that Wikipedia needs a tiny bit more efficency, and this is a step to acheving it.
So my good sirs, shall we discuss or dismiss this as absolute twaddle? Takeo™ 15:05, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
I removed the RfC because it is a snowball fail OhanaUnited Talk page 06:25, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
Editors interested in GA work might want to look over Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Racepacket 2, which is largely about a series of disputes at GAs reviewed by Racepacket. In particular, there are questions about whether Wikipedia would be best served by having Racepacket stop reviewing GANs about Netball and US roads. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 18:10, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Someone (unrelated to the RFC disputants, AFAICT) has now proposed a community ban (entire English Wikipedia) for Racepacket at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Site_ban_proposed_for_User:Racepacket. As editors here probably have more experience with Racepacket than average, some of you may be able to contribute helpfully to that discussion. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 19:50, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
Since WP:USRD/STDS is merely an essay within a WikiProject, any criteria listed under WP:WIAGA can override USRD/STDS because WIAGA represents a much broader consensus among the entire community (where as USRD/STDS only, at best, represent the consensus from WikiProject U.S. Roads). Don't forget that USRD/STDS is an essay and not a guideline/policy, it does not have any teeth to force others (articles and/or users) to comply and conform to it. OhanaUnited Talk page 05:15, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
The RFC/U is also now closed, and I hope we can have an RFC on the question of the relationship between the GA criteria and various WikiProject standards. Again, I will follow whatever policy is in place, but I hope we can keep the GA review process one where non-experts can review articles from other subject areas. Reviewing outside one own subject area keeps the GA criteria consistent throughout Wikipedia and results in articles that can be easily understood by a reader who lacks background in a subject. Racepacket ( talk) 11:52, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
Is anyone else here interested in reviving the GA collaboration? There are many great articles on the GA list which are almost of featured-quality. This seems to be a great way to give some of those articles the final push that they need. Tarret talk 16:43, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
Should we start up the newsletter again? I've created a draft here. Feel free to post comments/queries. Doh5678 Talk 01:16, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
Last year there was some fear that the WikiCup competition would overwhelm the GA process. To address this, the 2011 rules were changed to give 2 points for reviewing a GA nomination. You might want to visit WP:CUP and grab some statistics on the total number of reviews in Round 1 and Round 2 that were preformed by cup contestants. I read it as 182 GA reviews performed in Round 1 (Jan/Feb 2011). The totals are much higher for Round 2 with Wizardman doing 42 and my doing 37. Thanks for doing the newsletter. Racepacket ( talk) 11:45, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
I don't think that we're doing a good job of advertising second opinions as a lightweight means of dispute resolution on specific points. We use this process, but there's no handy "post at ____ to get a second opinion" set of instructions. It's quicker and simpler than an individual GAR, because it is usually used for a single, specific question, like "Should this image be included?" or "Does this paragraph make sense?", rather than for broader questions ("Should this article be listed as GA?").
I believe that increased use of this process might both reduce bad experiences and also introduce a bit more consistency into reviews.
I have two ideas for doing this:
What do you think? WhatamIdoing ( talk) 20:09, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Hello, I just wanted to inform you that now also it.wiki has activated the "Good Article" category. The articles having this status will be put under subcategories of it:Categoria:Voci di qualità per argomento. I don't know if this will be interesting for you, but maybe you'll want to update some bots... -- Gengis Gat ( talk) 17:16, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Would anyone here be interested in creating a "B-class task force" for this Wikiproject? It would help to accomplish the following.
While points 1 and 2 would find GA-class articles which may have been missed by the Wikiproject I feel that points 3 and 4 for this taskforce would help make the WP:GAN process faster. This is because quality articles are easier to review, having "Wikiprojects" involved helps reviewers who may not be familiar with the topic being reviewed, and this would likely help to reduce the number of holds/second opinion requests on the GAN page. Any other thoughts on how this idea may work/be improved? Tarret talk 17:41, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
(note: I am moving this section to WT:GAN, where discussion of issues such as this normally takes place. Please continue there. Looie496 ( talk) 23:08, 7 July 2011 (UTC))
Hi. I really faced a dilemna with the Bernard Levin article as whether or not to list it under Language and literature or Media and journalism. The thing is he was very much a critic and writer, which is under Language and literature but is chiefly a journalist. I'd imagine this is not the first time an overlap has occurred. Maybe this category ought to be merged to include writers , journalists and critics in one and journalists and critics in particular often go hand in hand?♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:55, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi all, see Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know#Good_articles_redux. I've opened debate on a possible trial of 1-2 hooks of recently-listed GAs in each set of DYK hooks (3-4/day). Discuss there. Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 07:11, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
There's a proposal at Wikipedia talk:Good article criteria#WP:COPYVIO_not_mentioned_in_WIAGA to mention copyright violations (for text, not just for images) in the GACR. Please comment there. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 23:21, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi can someone else look at the GA nomination for Battle record of Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington. I left a note on article talk that being a list it was not eligible by the GA criteria. This resulted in abuse on my talk and as I have commented at Wikipedia:Wikiquette assistance that I am more than happy never to review or have any other interaction with MarcusBritish in the future. Could another reviewer decide it its eligible. Jim Sweeney ( talk) 18:49, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Alright, uninvolved admin here. As far as I can tell, Marcus nominated an article for GA, and Jim left a comment on the talk page that he didn't think it was eligible. He didn't fail the article. He didn't even start a GAN review. He just made a comment. Marcus told him to "mind his own biz" and called him a prig in the edit comment. Jim responded by asking him to apologize (a bit sanctimoniously, to be honest), and Marcus responded by flipping out, i.e. "arrogant, self-centred, obnoxious, Maccams who STALK my contribs, make malicious objections, and abuse their rights" etc. for another paragraph. Jim complained at etiquette central and here, and Marcus has continued to rant. Am I missing anything?
Because if not, Jim- in the future, "I will allow you to apologise for this edit summery [...] if not I will have to report it as unacceptable" comes off as condescending. Marcus was rude, true, but that's a bit passive-aggressive. Marcus- you need to chill the fuck out. Jim made a comment. You didn't need to be rude back, but whatever. But there was no need to flip out on his talk page, or start yelling about how everyone is conspiring against your article. Step back, calm down, come back later. The article will get reviewed regardless of whether Jim's a jerk, or you're a jerk, or I'm a jerk. -- Pres N 21:31, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Folks,
In the past few weeks I've seen a number of usernames come up over and over again in GA nominations and reviews in the music category. Upon further investigation of twelve editors, I found some reciprocity in their GA review practices. I have compiled data of their GA nominations and reviews, and have presented them in the here. Obviously, I do not believe all twelve are acting in concert, nor do I believe any of the editors is intentionally circumventing GAN policies. Nevertheless, I invite your participation in the discussion at that page's corresponding talk page, as there is some disagreement about acceptable practices. Thanks. Two Hearted River ( paddle / fish) 13:05, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
Does the community need to change its advice about the relationship between the six Good article criteria and essays and guidelines not specifically mentioned by the criteria? 00:48, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Good articles are assessed by a volunteer editor against the six Good article criteria. Articles that match the criteria are listed as Good articles. The GA criteria are not particularly stringent, as the goal is is to identify "good" or "decent" articles rather than Wikipedia's best articles. In particular, compliance with the vast majority of guidelines, such as WP:External links and about 90% of the WP:Manual of Style pages, is not required.
However, these non-required guidelines, essays, and advice pages written by WikiProjects often provide valuable advice, and in some cases they may inform an editor's view about whether an article meets the actual criteria.
For example, a person wishing to determine whether an article about a disease meets criteria 3(a) "addresses the main aspects of the topic" might look at WP:MEDMOS#Sections for a list of things that are typically included in disease-related articles, such as "Signs and symptoms", "Treatment", or "History". Existing advice encourages this: "For particular types of article, WikiProjects often provide helpful advice on what the main aspects are likely to be". It also cautions against overzealous application of such advice: "However, the decision to list or not list an article should be based on the GA criteria alone", not on whether these optional recommendations are followed precisely.
Earlier this year, some editors were in a dispute over the role of a WikiProject's advice page in reviewing articles nominated for GA status. One reviewer was concerned that project members wanted him to improperly exceed the GA criteria by requiring compliance with their guideline; members of the project were concerned that by ignoring their advice, he inadvertently might list articles that did not actually meet the GA criteria because the articles were confusing (criteria 1) or incomplete (criteria 3).
This RFC is intended as an opportunity to discuss whether the community needs to change its existing advice on this subject. Is the existing advice adequately clear to you? That is, do you believe that the existing advice helps you and other editors know how to benefit from such pages without exceeding the GA criteria? Or do you believe that additional explanations (please feel free to provide examples!) would be helpful to clear up confusion or otherwise help editors find the right balance?
(As I am interested more in "listening" than "talking" on this point, I'm going to withhold my opinion for now.) WhatamIdoing ( talk) 00:48, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Just wanted to know, which "class" of articles is better, GA or just plain A? CrashGordon94 ( talk) 08:23, 7 October 2011 (UTC)