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The article about Argentine manager Oscar Fulloné states that he played for Estudiantes de La Plata, I can find nothing to verify this, (he doesn't seem to have ever played in Argentina) it also states that he played for Aston Villa, which seems unlikely. Can anyone shed any light on his playing career? King of the North East 21:00, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
He didn't play any league matches for Real Oviedo, but an Argentinian player "Fullones" signed a 2 year contract with Oviedo in 1963 according to El Mundo Deportivo Cattivi ( talk) 00:14, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone know of any reliable sources about his playing/managerial career, we hate unreferenced BLPs don't we? King of the North East 12:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone have any sourced stats for Gary Phillips (footballer), who played in the Football League during the 1980s and a bit in the 90s. The only source I could find was neilbrown's but I'm n ot sure if these include cup comps. Cheers, -- Jimbo [online] 22:15, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Could an admin please recreate Hermann Stessl. The page was deleted twice but this guy coached some major clubs through Europe. Thanks.-- Latouffedisco ( talk) 07:01, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
This message is being sent to WikiProjects with GAs under their scope. Since August 2007, WikiProject Good Articles has been participating in GA sweeps. The process helps to ensure that articles that have passed a nomination before that date meet the GA criteria. After nearly two years, the running total has just passed the 50% mark. In order to expediate the reviewing, several changes have been made to the process. A new worklist has been created, detailing which articles are left to review. Instead of reviewing by topic, editors can consider picking and choosing whichever articles they are interested in.
We are always looking for new members to assist with reviewing the remaining articles, and since this project has GAs under its scope, it would be beneficial if any of its members could review a few articles (perhaps your project's articles). Your project's members are likely to be more knowledgeable about your topic GAs then an outside reviewer. As a result, reviewing your project's articles would improve the quality of the review in ensuring that the article meets your project's concerns on sourcing, content, and guidelines. However, members can also review any other article in the worklist to ensure it meets the GA criteria.
If any members are interested, please visit the GA sweeps page for further details and instructions in initiating a review. If you'd like to join the process, please add your name to the running total page. In addition, for every member that reviews 100 articles from the worklist or has a significant impact on the process, s/he will get an award when they reach that threshold. With ~1,300 articles left to review, we would appreciate any editors that could contribute in helping to uphold the quality of GAs. If you have any questions about the process, reviewing, or need help with a particular article, please contact me or OhanaUnited and we'll be happy to help. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 05:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I wanted to draw the group's attention to the large backlog of footballer articles that are included in the Category:Unreferenced BLPs. By by estimation (using Catscan which only shows 1,000 articles at a time), there are 5,000–10,000 footballer articles in this backlog. I think everyone would agree this is a problem (it is a large percentage of the overall unreferenced BLP backlog - maybe as much as 25%).
In order to reduce this backlog and its negative impact on the project, I think we need to make a coordinated effort to attack the problem. I've been going through footballers from specific countries and now the A's and trying to add sources wherever possible (even if they are poor ones) and Prod'ing the ones that are clearly not notable or verifiable. Many of these players are internationals and are easily sourced, but others are obscure (to me at least) and it's a challenge to source them. In particular, I've noticed that many are from Asia or North Africa (Japan, Thailand, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt and Libya have more than I expected). If anyone is familiar with Asian football (or reads Arabic), I expect they could source these articles much easier. There are also a large amount of articles about players who probably fail WP:ATHLETE - Albanians, Bosnians and Montenegrins playing in their domestic leagues.
We also have to find a way to reduce the creation of new unreferenced footballer BLPs. I've noticed most of the editors that created articles in the backlog are no longer active, so they are unlikely to add to the problem. Others are WP:FOOTY project members (I've created quite a few before I knew better). I don't think many project members are still making unreferenced articles, and I've been leaving notes with the few that are so hopefully they will help out. Another thing to consider is these unreferenced articles seem to follow a pattern - new editor signs up and creates dozens (or in some case hundreds) of articles about his or her local team or league over a few week period. Then, the editor loses interest and we have dozens or hundreds of new unreferenced BLPs.
There are certainly other approaches, such as Prod'ing hundreds of the articles at a time and hoping the creators are still active and will source them. I think we should act now as a group to address the problem and hope that others have ideas on how to attack it. Any help would be appreciated. Best regards. Jogurney ( talk) 19:17, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
What if we make a list of all the articles unsourced BLPs and sort them by country. This should be feasible by intersecting All Unreferenced BLPs with the subcats of Category:Football (soccer) players by nationality. I know it is much easier sourcing articles that about footballers from my homecountry. Rettetast ( talk) 21:09, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Great work. May I make one suggestion, that if there is still unsourced personal information left in an article after people add sources for football stuff, please could we replace the {{ BLP unsourced}} tag with {{ BLP sources}} - the equivalent of refimprove - rather than just removing the unsourced tag. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 08:16, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I updated the full list to see if there was any progress. We went from 5203 articles to ...5225. Rettetast ( talk) 00:43, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
If anyone is interested I could make lists based on a club category. It is probably easier to find sources about players that have bin in "your" club. This has to be done on a request basis though. Anyone who wants to give it a try? Rettetast ( talk) 15:16, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I've moved both David Hutton pages because one page just said David Hutton and the other said David Hutton (footballer born 1989). Seriously why the hell would you not change the Scottish Footballer's page when you have an English Footballer with the same name? It just totally fucks everything up and the reason is that was because I typed David Hutton under search and I clicked go and it sent me to the Scottish Footballer's page and I typed it again and pushed the space bar and another said David Hutton (footballer born 1989), so now both pages are David Hutton (Scottish footballer) and David Hutton (English footballer). – Michael ( talk) 00:55, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Can an admin restore him back to David Hutton (footballer born 1989) because in the future if another Irish David Hutton turns up it would be inappropriate to have the name as such right? Govvy ( talk) 20:52, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Quite a few of these national teams are up for AfD. As a single entity they don't seem to meet notability, but collectivly would they? Is it worth creating a new article and umbrella some of them under a name along the lines of Non-affliated national football teams? -- Jimbo [online] 15:51, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Is there any rule (or at least guideline) concerning club notability outside English football league system? Here I mean those small leagues that don't have thousand clubs or so. I've found an article about the Icelandic club called Dalvík/Reynir. It was mainly written (very well, I must say) by User:Gullijons, and that club is probably user's hometown club. Anyway, it's not that I don't appreciate the user's effort, but how notable this club really is? The fact is that it never played in any league higher that fourth and bottom league ( 3. deild karla), which is, you guess, fully amateur. As for cup, on Iceland ALL clubs are eligible to enter the cup from the First Round and it reached Fourth Round (Round of 32) in 2007.
The club itself is just an example through which I want to ask what about the notability of those clubs that belong to smaller associations? SonjiCeli ( talk) 20:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
A rough guidline was set with Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Notability, have a look there. Under those criterias, the club is notable because it played in the national cup competition. EA210269 ( talk) 08:53, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi there teammates, i bring to you another doubt,
I have seen that user Mega60 has been removing the updates on retired players, on exactly those grounds (players no longer play), hence "enters" my question, maybe he could be right, i don't know, wanted to bring this up to the forum before i message him:
What are the patterns here? My approach (which can be VERY MUCH wrong) was/is the following: For Playing Club (PC), i usually inserted the date that closed last season (i.e. 31 July 2002 if player's last season was 2001-02), for National Team (NT), not much gray area, i obviously added the day player last appeared for country. Is this correct or is our man MEGA correct (meaning no updates whatsoever must be applied in retired players)?
Attentively, VASCO AMARAL, PORTUGAL - -- NothingButAGoodNothing ( talk) 22:30, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
-- NothingButAGoodNothing ( talk) 00:09, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone happen to know if the
William Reynolds (footballer) first-named on {{
BSC Young Boys managers}} is a) William Thomas Reynolds born 1870 in Tewkesbury who played for Small Heath in the 1890s; b) William Reynolds born 18789 in Manchester who played for Burton/Clapton/Grimsby/Swindon in the 1900s; c) some other bloke entirely? cheers,
Struway2 (
talk)
12:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I mentioned to User:HonorTheKing that the (C) and (R) marks on league tables such as Premier League 2007–08 are redundant. We have already highlighted the fact that people are champions by (a) league positions by points from top down (b) colours denoting the different achievements and (c) the comments column (where applicable). Isn't it a bit overkill? Surely people will get the point that three clubs are relegated by the fact they are in a big red area labelled as "relegated to championship"? Similarly, who would ever expect the team in any place other than the top to be the champions? The more we simplify these things the better, and the colouring and comments already resolve any accessibility problems. Sillyfolkboy ( talk) ( edits) WIKIPROJECT ATHLETICS NEEDS YOU! 12:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Surely {{ WUclubs}} is a non-notable template? Giant Snowman 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Would the Suruga Bank Championship match qualify as notable to have its own article? Digirami ( talk) 20:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
First, this discussion should perhaps take place on UEFA Cup, if this is the case we can move it there.
Tonight (or tomorrow night for those still on Tuesday) as most are aware, the last UEFA Cup final will be played. Though imo there's no need to have a plan ready for the final whistle, there might at least be nice to come up with a consensus for implementation. My proposal would be to treat it as the European Cup/UEFA Champions League situation, this includes, article moves (some changes in the UEFA Cup article will also be needed), categories, templates etc. Should for example these three articles ( List of UEFA Cup winners, UEFA Cup records and statistics, List of UEFA Cup winning managers) stay until until we actually have any Europa League winners, should the records and stats be changed upon the start of next season? chan dler ··· 03:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I was wondering what people's opinions were on the remaining teams on these two templates: Template:NF-Board_teams and Template:Non-FIFA_teams. I've already nominated what I felt were the least notable (or completely unverifiable) teams, but I can't really decide where to draw a line. Some of the teams have only ever competed in one competition, e.g the ELF Cup or UNPO Cup. Would those teams' pages be better off merged into the tournament article? How about the Spanish regional teams which seem to play one game a year around christmas etc etc etc Stu.W UK ( talk) 12:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I'd say the majority of them past notability with the exception of a few, but no clear criteria has been put forth. I'd say Madeira would pass general notability. The deletion seems to be quite hasty, perhaps instead of trying to delete them all, an effort to add references will be more suited - as that's what seems to be the main point of argument in all these AfDs. I've seen loads of FIFA affliated teams without/few reliable references, does this mean they should be bundled in too? -- Jimbo [online] 08:14, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Just found this article categorised in the main football category. All of the info seems a bit contrived, especially the bit about the stadium being the only one in Ireland with undersoil heating and a cantilever roof, and the bit about the sponsorship by McVitie's. Furthermore, the main editor of the article seems to have the same surname as one of the people who was listed as a famous past player until I deleted it. Hoax, anyone? – Pee Jay 10:25, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Nearby Coolock Town F.C. of the Amateur Football League are a more significant team and they don't meet notability criteria either.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 10:56, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Category:Beechlawn Rovers F.C. players has also been created. Would this go through speedy when the parent article is deleted? -- Jimbo [online] 12:47, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
An IP keeps adding some highly POV commentary on the split between Enfield Town F.C. and Enfield (1893) F.C., despite my constant efforts to rewmove it. Can others keep an eye out, as I'm getting bored of reverting it -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 11:44, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
A new editor keeps adding a list of "Transfers to European clubs" to this article, something which has happened sporadically from IPs and new accounts over the last year or so. Can someone else keep an eye on it or have a word with him, as I'm tired of reverting. Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 15:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Someone has moved the Serbian manager Milovan Rajevać over its redirect to the accentless Milovan Rajevac. As he is Serbian and therfore should have an accent in his name, could a lovely admin please move it back? Cheers, Giant Snowman 00:58, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Blackpool F.C. - what's the "all-time topscorer" field doing in the infobox...........? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 08:55, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Is there any evidence this guy played professionally? The match against Milan referred to (which the article helpfully doesn't date) appears to have happened in 1913, and Reading wouldn't join the Football League until 1920, after Foster apparently died. If he never played in the League for any other club(s), presumably we should treat him like a modern non-league player and delete the article........? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 09:25, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I was wondering if Charlie Bell, the former manager of Bournemouth and Mansfield [3] [4] was the guy as the Marseille and Nice manager in France [5]. He has also coached Padova see here and possibly Sporting Lisbon [6]. Any clues ? Any informations about his playing career ? Now you must understand I'm very interested in English football pioneers in Europe... Cheers.-- Latouffedisco ( talk) 16:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, something's wrong. The last part of his playing career and early part of his coaching career in England is supposed to be: Barrow, QPR, Coaching jobs at Reading and Notts County (ca. 1921-23) Wigan Borough manager next. His first spell as Sporting trainer was January 1920-summer 1922. Cattivi ( talk) 19:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
The 1919-20 Campeonato de Lisboa ran from 4 January- 16 May 1920-21: from 21 November to 22 May 1921-22: from 13 November- 12 February + 3 championship matches in June against Porto (Source Almanaque do Sporting 1906-2005). He could have been in England for long periods. The only problem left is: he can't have been Barrow's top goalscorer as claimed by the Mansfield complete record book in 1920-21 Cattivi ( talk) 10:30, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Maybe the Bell who started the 1920-21 season with Barrow, isn't the same one who played for them in January 1921. Cattivi ( talk) 11:45, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Article created at Charlie Bell (footballer): feel free to improve it.-- Latouffedisco ( talk) 07:20, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Hoax? Hubschrauber729 ( talk) 20:34, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Could someone please also check whether Anthony Rush and Ronnie Walsh are also hoaxes. They were created by the same editor as Ian Ugarde.- gadfium 21:20, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
DavidHurst ( talk · contribs) seems to think that the new season has started today, when infact it starts on 1 July. Just thought I'd bring his edits to attention. Mattythewhite ( talk) 17:43, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
What should be used for the "report" parameter in Template:Footballbox (since only one can be added)? Another editor changed my BBC link to a Soccerbase one, but I'd have thought that a match write-up would be preferred to purely statistical information? This is not a complaint against the other user however, as the template documentation gives no guidance whatsoever. -- Jameboy ( talk) 19:28, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
1. Article from the official footballing body, i.e. FIFA failing that 2. Article from a reputable news source, i.e. BBC failing that 3. Soccerbase link
I know there are plenty of matches where there exists only a Soccerbase page, but I think that should be a last resort rather than the preferred choice.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 19:39, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Has been making a series of ridiculous page moves. [7] Could an admin revert these please? Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 06:32, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
After being on semi-wikiholiday of late I'm back, and I thought I'd created an article on the 1989 English league title decider, as tomorrow is it's 20th anniversary. Edits and perspectives from a Liverpool PoV welcome. Qwghlm ( talk) 15:26, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
In the vain hope that anyone here is going to the Champions League final on Wednesday, is there any chance that they could upload a photograph of their ticket for inclusion in the 2009 UEFA Champions League Final article? Blurring of your name and any other personal details on the ticket would be advised. – Pee Jay 20:01, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Hey folks. Dweller and I are trying to give the mustachioed genius that is Big Johnny Wark a well-deserved makeover and en route I've discovered, according to his autobiography, his brother was a pro at St Mirren. Anyone got anything I can use to corroborate, back up, expand upon here? He doesn't have an article but I guess if we can find something to cite then this link will not be red 'cos eventually it'll turn blue... Cheers in advance. The Rambling Man ( talk) 16:29, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
This template has been the subject of an argument between Fasach Nua and chandler for a while now and before bans get handed out it might be a good idea if we could reach a consensus on what should be done with it. To save a lot of reading I'll try to offer a paraphrasing of the two sides.
Fasach Nua's argument is that there are only 4 teams that have no successor recognised by FIFA, and these are the only ones that can be recognised as defunct because no other criteria for inclusion or exclusion exists.
Chandler thinks that to not call teams like USSR defunct is absurd regardless of whether technically they were succeeded by Russia.
I have tried, fairly cackhandedly, to make some suggestions of ways to resolve this. The problem is that ultimately I don't really care either way. Any suggestions? Stu.W UK ( talk) 22:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
My point is that it is absurd to not include articles about defunct teams on a navigational template about defunct national teams. And as there seem to be a very long standing consensus to have Russia/CIS/Soviet, Serbia/Yugoslavia, Czechia and Slovakia/Czechoslovakia, Northern Ireland/Ireland pre-split and Vietnam/South Vietnam on multiple articles. And when it comes to at least USSR, YUG, TCH they're not only split in football (national teams, youth teams, leagues, cups, awards), but in country articles, sports like ice hockey, tennis, olympics, rugby, handball or basket. This consensus over all aspects of wikipedia does not seem to be challenged (but ofc not merge requests, presumable because he knows it would fail?) or questioned by anyone other than Fasach nua. This template (like all nav. templates) is here to help readers navigate through articles we have, the information should not be hidden. chan dler • 03:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't really know what to think here. Both sides have valid arguments and I cannot make a choice.-- Latouffedisco ( talk) 07:19, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
I think "Teams whose both names and borders differ from the present" is fine. Population change is not a suitable criteria for labelling it a defunct team. How it stands now is good, if Ireland united then it could be replaced with Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. If Berwick-upon-Tweed becomes a Scottish town then it is not appropriate to label the England and Scotland national teams as defunct.
The Soviet Union does not exist any more, it is history. India (pre-1949), ok so it lost vast amounts of territory and citizens in the partition but India is a country of 1 billion people today, it is anything but defunct. A being team labelled under "Teams whose both names and borders differ from the present" does not mean it can't have a successor team.
I think we just have to use common sense here.
What criteria are needed? I suggest the following:
1. There is not currently a state of that name in existence. 2. Whose borders are significantly different to how they are now. 3. There is a non-stub article on the team in question in place. 4. The team was at one time officially recognized by FIFA.
CIS · Czechoslovakia · Ireland · South Vietnam · USSR · SFR Yugoslavia all meet the above criteria.
I would suggest that seen as Serbia and Montenegro played in the 2006 World Cup under that banner then if an article was created it would meet that criteria. There is already a category: 'Category:Serbia and Montenegro international footballers'.
The question of heritage doesn't need to enter into the equation. Two guys from Montenegro were in the squad in 2006, not much of a heritage, the rest were Serbs.
Yugoslavia is defunct, no question. The Serbian national football team article can talk of how it is a successor to the Yugoslav team, but that is irrelevant to this discussion.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 14:08, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Is the final of the one of Mexican league's bi-annual short tournaments notable for its own article? Digirami ( talk) 11:25, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Ok thanks! I take from this that any league match/tie that would determine the season/tournament champion is deemed notable... Correct?
But I have a follow-up. Is the Final Phase, which culminates in the game I mentioned above, notable for it's own article? I know it's commonplace to have an article like that for an international club tournament, but a league seems like a different (obviously). Digirami ( talk) 12:11, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Certainly a clubs youth team doesn't deserve its own squad template. Hubschrauber729 ( talk) 00:36, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I've suggested Manchester United F.C. for promotion to A-class status. Apparently, I need support from "two uninvolved editors, with no significant opposes", which I hope to get from this WikiProject. I'm fairly sure that the article meets the A-class criteria given here, but comments regarding the improvement of the article would be appreciated at Talk:Manchester United F.C. However, please bear in mind that this is an A-class review, not an FAC, so the quality requirements are not quite as high.
My second point is that this project doesn't currently have an A-class review system. This project may or may not be as big as WP:MILHIST, but an A-class review system similar to theirs ( here) wouldn't go amiss. Thanks. – Pee Jay 00:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
As more and more of the football navigational templates are being converted into {{ navbox}}es, it might be time to make a small change to {{ fb start}}, it's not a big change.
The current code is as follows: {| class="navbox" style="margin: 0.5em auto; width:47em; font-size: 95%;"
and because of the highlighted code the subsequent navboxes inside will display text size improper, example below.
|
| ||
A small difference that will happen if you remove the font-size:95% is that the 47em will be a bit narrower than before, which could be fixed with upping it to about 51 (I'm sure it won't be the exact same size in most browsers, but that isn't important is it), example below.
So I would propose changing the current code (above to) {| class="navbox" style="margin: 0.5em auto; width:51em;"
, unless it would perhaps be suitable to even give it a little more width, perhaps 60em which would make much difference, but give the change to not break lines as often, example above.
But giving more width isn't as important as just removing font-size: 95% and make the width similar to how it is with font-size:95% on, for {{ navbox}} templates to display text size as it is suppose to do. chan dler ♠ 08:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
{| class="navbox" style="margin: 0.5em auto; width:60em;"
.
Rettetast (
talk)
11:25, 26 May 2009 (UTC)I did the change. Rettetast ( talk) 12:46, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Are any Dutch speakers able to find a source which confirms my suspicion that former Dutch international Kees "Pier" Tol (born 1958) and current SC Cambuur player Kees Tol (born 1987) are father and son - both have the given name 'Kees'; both play(ed) as strikers; both were born in Volendam; they were born roughly 30 years apart. Thanks in advance, Giant Snowman 18:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Volendam is a very close-knit community. A catholic enclave, with it's own dialect. A lot of people have the same surname (Tol, Veerman, Kwakman, Schilder etc) Because many people have the same name, nicknames are added (like 'Pier'). Kees "Pier" Tol is his uncle. His father Wim "Pier" Tol was also a Volendam footballer (Eerste divisie 1980-81 topgoalscorer probably not fullpro). this and this Cattivi ( talk) 12:01, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
What should we do about "editors" like this? I stumbled upon four hoax footballer articles this user created (all tagged for speedy deletion) and noticed dozens and dozens of sneaky vandalism edits he or she made to minor Asian and American national football team articles. I even found vandalism he or she snuck into articles in July 2008 that had not yet been caught and reverted. I've left the user a second to last vandalism warning (before I realized the extent of the vandalism). How can we find this kinds of users quicker so they don't sneak so much damage into football articles without anyone noticing? I'm quite sure I didn't revert all of the vandalism but I think I got most of it. Jogurney ( talk) 04:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Who decided to change the fonts in the season templates? Juve2000 ( talk) 20:51, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Fulham F.C. has been nominated for a good article reassessment. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to good article quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. Reviewers' concerns are here. Mattythewhite ( talk) 20:57, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
The article on Conor Molan has been brought up at the BLP noticeboard [8]. An editor claiming to be Molan has expressed a wish for the article to be deleted due to previous vandalism and says it is inaccurate anyway.Could someone take a look at this please? thanks, -- Malcolmxl5 ( talk) 21:31, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Well as it stands, it makes no claim to notability anyway, as the FAI First Division is not fully pro. If he has ever played in a fully pro league, it needs to be up there. Kevin McE ( talk) 22:34, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
A new standard in reliable sources! who could possibly argue with a reference from an "offer of the week" advert for the club's fund-raising calendar? --ClubOranje T 08:32, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
PROD disputed on the grounds he won a TV talent contest, but surely he isn't notable? (If kept, the horrible quality of the article needs some serious work - what's a "midlfieder"?) -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 09:01, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Just a thought regarding the comming opening of the summer transfer window and the countless rumours appearing at the same time, such as Cristiano Ronaldo and Kaká to Real Madrid and Frank Ribery to Manchester United, FC Barcelona and Real Madrid, with these rumours a large serie of IP. nr. appears and changes the club the player plays in solely based on what is said in for example The Times, Marca or La Gazzetta dello Sport, regardless if its in good faith or just pure vandelism, my thought is that we should semi-protect these players until a transfer occur or the transfer window closes.
I belive it might, if done, simplify our work correcting players transfers durring the time, it would prevent a large serie of correction of heavily romoured players. --> Halmstad, Charla to moi 15:31, 18 May 2009 ( UTC)
I'm also in favour of article protection. Let newcomers learn the ropes on low visibility articles.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 18:01, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
I agree that preemptive protection is unnecessary and counterproductive. Speaking of which, here's my first RPP of the not-yet-close season: [9] on Chelsea target Yuri Zhirkov ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). -- Mosmof ( talk) 21:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
A new list in development. If you have anything to contrubute to it, please do so. ArtVandelay13 ( talk) 09:52, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Aside from the issue of whether it's notable or not, I know Julian Hails has a Maths degree. I think Jens Lehman was doing an Open University degree a few years back and I think Sean Canham and a couple of other former Team Bath players did as well - as it was a Uni team after all. -- Jimbo [online] 15:52, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Users have already started updating league articles, templates and club articles with details for the 2009-10 season (e.g. Template:Conference_North, but as far as I know these haven't been announced yet (several positions across the pyramid are subject to appeal and the FA Leagues Committee are keeping quiet for now. - fchd ( talk) 16:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
The FA have now announced the provisional lineups. Most notable is Team Bath folding, which means a number of relegated teams in lower divisions have been repreived. Bettia (bring on the trumpets!) 19:14, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Just been round changing a few clubs' infoboxes back to reflect their 2008/09 divisions played in, as AFAIK the new season still hasn't started, and noticed that the navigational templates {{ Premier League}} etc have already been changed to pick up the 2009/10 team lists. So I'm wondering what's the point of some established editors trying to keep to "this" season when other established editors have already gone on to next? cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 07:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Can an admin please re-create the article for this player. He finally made his MLS debut Chicago Fire tonight. Confirmation is here: http://web.mlsnet.com/scoreboard/game.jsp?match=05282009_CHICHV. Thanks! -- JonBroxton ( talk) 07:59, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
This article needs to be recreated - he played for Hearts against Celtic in the SPL last week. [10] There was also an article in the local paper yesterday about him, which I think said that he has been selected for the full Lithuania squad. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 08:10, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Or, so it seems if we are to believe edits made to Gérard Houllier, Paul Le Guen, Frank Rijkaard, Diego Capel and Ruud van Nistelrooy that I've reverted. It's typical silly season stuff, I guess, but I find it weird that I keep noticing unsourced stuff about managers headed to Galatasaray or Fenerberche. I can't tell if it's just one user posting from multiple Turkish IPs or if the Turkish media is especially into speculating. But please keep an eye out for players and managers prematurely headed to an Istanbul club. -- Mosmof ( talk) 18:23, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm making a edit war about the player full name. Although i have a name list of 30,000+ player name list and CBF id in a PDF, but the unique page is dead and i cannot found the link of download page of the PDF back, but the player official site, the club he play, kicker, playerhistory.com, and CBF all refer as Claudemir Jeronimo Barretto only. and his brother called Vlademir Jeronimo Barreto. And sambafoot, worldfootball.net transfermarkt.de (but cite his German passport is Claudemir Barretto) refer him as Jeronimo Maria Barretto Claudemir da Silva. How come a mid-name of even part of a Portuguese surname became first name, and a first name became a mid-name of even part of a Portuguese surname? And difference from his brother? Should both be used or only former survived ? Matthew_hk t c 23:42, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
ok here is the pdf [11] Matthew_hk t c 23:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
This is a request for help. I've stumbled across the above article and, while I've managed hack out a general shape, it needs some attention to finer details. I don't know much about soccer/football, but this club looks like it has some claims to notability. I think it was copy/pasted wholesale from either the Portuguese or Spanish Wikipedia. Thanks in advance! TN X Man 23:29, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I cleaned up the article and added some sources. -- Carioca ( talk) 21:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
This user persists in deleting a perfectly good photo of Alecko Eskandarian from that player's page (and this is ALL he ever does); despite my repeated attempts to get him to explain what his problem is with the photo, he never uses edit summaries and never responds to queries. I warned him twice about deletion of content, but he ignores the warning and persists in deleting anyway. Any idea what my next step can be? -- JonBroxton ( talk) 00:04, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Maybe the anonymous IP is the guy to the left of the photo, perhaps hes on the run from a madman who has an interest in Armenian-American sportspeople and so is worried the madman will spot the photo and track him down.
Who knows? Anonymous IP's are nutjobs mostly. e.g. this guy. Yes, it is more important to know that a guy called Alan Jones and a guy called Charles Machin used to be directors at the club at sometime in the past, FAR more important and MUCH more interesting information then who every single Chairman in the club's history has been.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 09:34, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
This fella, a Scot, managed Egypt at the 1934 World Cup - anyone got any info on his playing/coaching career back in the UK? Google brings up nothing! Cheers, Giant Snowman 01:27, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
link Cattivi ( talk) 12:17, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
He's the brother of David McCrae (Scottish international) Cattivi ( talk) 12:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
There is no 'bordercolor' parameter in the {{ National squad no numbers}} template - could someone add one please? Many thanks, Giant Snowman 16:14, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Looking at the talk pages over the past couple of weeks, the members of WP:FOOTY had quite a few discussions over things related to season articles. So, SonjiCeli and I thought it would make sense to team up and suggest a collective proposal for a guideline on season articles. Our proposal can be found here.
We tried to stay as close to the well-established "best practises" as we could. However, there is still a chance that we might have missed something or included something controversial, so any comments - either here or on the talk page of the proposal - from as much members of this project as possible would be gladly appreciated. -- Soccer-holic I hear voices in my head... 23:22, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
I know I'm the lone voice here, but I have nothing against the templates in standings and results. Not only it looks "neater" and "more appealing", but it is much easier to work with them. The main advantage is seen in league table where you have less things to calculate on your own, and it's easier to change positions, especially when you have 30+ league articles to edit in one day and you need as much spared time as you can get. Plus, when editing, templates use less rows and it's therefore easier to deal with them. I know that some users have trouble in loading the page with a lot of templates, but other than that, I don't see any other disandvantage. Maybe I'm totally wrong, but can someone here explain to me arguments why there is so much opposition regarding templates?
As for the colors, I think they are useful. Yes, now league tables look like the inside of a disco, but this many Europe spots offered and relegation spots being used need to be notified somehow. Especially because the text on the right hand side of the table is barely readable. Also, the tables really look "boring" and "empty" without the colors (just take a look at any English standings table during the punishment in late 80s), while I think that the spots should be more visible as they are very important in overall standings.
Anyway, this is just my honest opinion and I hope I will not be crucified for this. I would just like some more explaining regarding these two subjects discussed here and maybe I will see the other, negative side of that. SonjiCeli ( talk) 11:09, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
@Struway2, Number57 and everybody else that think the same: How are standard wikitables simpler to use than templates? As I stated earlier, the only thing that might be the problem (only to those with weaker Internet connection) is the space being used. With other "arguments" I cannot agree because:
a) templates are extremely simple to use. The biggest difference between the using of templates and wikitables can be seen in league standings. IMHO, wikitables are much harder to use because you need to calculate everything on your own and that takes more time. If you think the other way, please explain why exactly is using the templates "nightmare" for you.
b) once you have created club templates (and the huge number of them has been created so far), your work is done and all you have to do is to update.
c) it seems that font size can be modified after all, while the colors could easily be changed. We just need to reach a consensus which ones to use. SonjiCeli ( talk) 14:09, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
While we're going back to the drawing board for the league/results tables - any opinions on the other sections in general and the goalscorers in particular? --
Soccer-holic
I hear voices in my head...
11:26, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
This is my first foray into this discussion but I am one who is disappointed by the inflexibility of the templates which the so call "consensus" has embarked as the only method of display. Also it is causes wrong displays and conflicts with reality. As in the case with Ukrainian Premier League 2008-09 in the standings display the "Qualification and Relegation" is simply WRONG! - And the editors some of them admins are forcing Futurism ( WP:FUTURE) and biasness into the article and their insistance that the templates are "god". For example - Metalist, Vorskla and Metalurh D. have all qualified the Europa League but because the admins insist and using the template and incorrect designations rather than stating only the known fact as displayed in Correct Ukrainian Premier League Standings (as of May 26, 2009) there is bullyism and threats by the admins. Yet the displayed standings reflect only if Shakhtar Donest'k wins the Ukrainian Cup. Slightly biased which is against the neutrality that site is supposedly thrives on.
I appreciate your insight Soccer-holic, and SonjiCeli into trying to better the current schematic with the color schema which I thought worked well during the Ukrainian season but I contend that the Qualification and Relegation column IMO should only be used when in fact that is known fact with such designators as (Q) in the team column which now duplicate confuse not only those editting the standings but those who are trying understand why the (Q) is in the team column as well. Also if the standings are referenced do the these references sources also have these team designors (C). I don't see anything the Ukrainian PFL web site that, which is the official referenced source that has (C) or (R). Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 11:50, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I altered the color scheme a little bit in order to improve the accessibility issues. The full scheme can be seen here; an example implementation can be found here. Please comment. -- Soccer-holic I hear voices in my head... 00:26, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Is the second and third tier in the Israeli football league system really fully professional leagues? Rettetast ( talk) 22:38, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I have nominated a relevant article for deletion. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Moshe Abutbul. Rettetast ( talk) 01:06, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
While creating stub articles for Scotland internationals, I stumbled across the above category, which appears to be in a bit of a state. Maybe fair enough to have results by decade in that early period, but results by year seems a bit nonsensical when England were only playing one annual match against Scotland. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 08:49, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Right on today AC Milan announced departure of Carlo Ancelotti and his replacement with Leonardo Araujo. There is only one problem: Leonardo has no UEFA Pro coaching badges, so he can't serve as head coach in Italian Serie A (technically he could not do this even in Serie B, because he has no UEFA A badges as well, but only UEFA B). It is still unclear how the club will solve this, probably they will legally appoint either Filippo Galli or Mauro Tassotti as head coach, with Leonardo as assistant. In addition, Ancelotti's replacement will not take over before July 1, and there is still no official statement from the club. Since a lot of unexperienced users who are probably unaware of this are changing the head coach name in the infobox with Leonardo, can you please help me with this? Thank you. -- Angelo ( talk) 16:49, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Apparently he will be exempted from requiring a UEFA Pro license in his first season because he is a former FIFA World Cup Winner, but this will take validity only after he will take the UEFA A license on the 17th of July. This is at least what he said in the press conference. Something weird, actually, but apparently legal. -- Angelo ( talk) 21:00, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
I am currently having problems with Serie A 2008–09, as User:KyleRGiggs is continuously ( WP:POINT) adding flags in violation of MOS:FLAG despite multiple warnings. Can we discuss this here? I also invited him to open a discussion instead, but all I've received is this. Thanks in advance. -- Angelo ( talk) 18:28, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
The violated parts of MOS:FLAG are 'Do not solely decorate' (only two coaches in Italian Serie A were foreigners this year, and one season ago there were no foreigners at all), 'Do not use too many icons' (30 icons for 15 managerial changes, Serie B would be even worse) and 'Accompany flags with country names'. As already stated above, 'Do not emphasize nationality without good reason' might be a debatable one, personally I think emphasizing nationality for managers just makes no sense (all sports have an international nature, but Serie A is just the league of Italy) but it's merely my opinion. I have taken issue with Serie A only because I have Serie A and Serie B articles in my watchlist, whereas Premier League and La Liga (just citing the first two ones in my mind) are not. -- Angelo ( talk) 20:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
A shot in the dark, but I'd be incredibly grateful, not to mention impressed, if someone could find out who scored the other Blackpool goal in this game. Roy Calley's book on the history of the club incorrectly lists the score as 3–1 to Leeds City, with George Beare scoring the visitors' goal. As such, I can only list 49 of the club's 50 league goals in Blackpool F.C. season 1909–10. - Dudesleeper / Talk 21:24, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Gerry Wolstenholme has revised a lot of Blackpool stats after the publication of the Breedon book. Stanley Matthews went from 391 league appearances for Blackpool to 389 (Michael Joyce football players records first edition in 2002) Now there are only 380 matches left. P. E. Miller is now called P. C Miller (only 4 league matches in 1908-09) Cattivi ( talk) 12:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
WWW.allfootballers.com lists 3 Millers who played for Blackpool: P. Miller (a winger) in 1903-04 (3 games, 0 goals), P.C. Miller (full back) in 1908-09 (4 games, 0 goals) and Walter Miller (centre forward) (31 games, 14 goals in 1909-10 and 6 games, 1 goal in 1910-11). Walter also played for Sheffield Wednesday, West Ham United and Lincoln City, as well as for clubs in Scotland and Wales. Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 15:25, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, we need consensus on this matter once and for all. Here's the problem - if a player playing for a professional team in a fully-professional league makes one solitary appearance in a cup competition against semi-pro opposition, is said player then notable? I only ask because a couple of AfDs ( Eddie Ancalet and Dominic Merella spring to mind; the former played 19 mins while the latter played only 14, both in the FA Cup against non-league opposition) have resulted in the articles of two otherwise non-notable players being kept. So, even though voting is evil and wrong and all the rest of it, I thought we could have a wee vote and discussion anyways. Voting for 'players are not notable' means that you think that a player who plays for a pro team against semi-pro opposition is NOT worthy of an article; voting for 'players are notable' means that you think that a player who plays for a pro team against semi-pro opposition IS worthy of an article. Oh, and for anyone a bit slow out there, 'discussion' is where we can all 'discuss' the matter. Cheers! Giant Snowman 23:30, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
I think the answer depends on the context of the competition. If a semi-pro or even amateur club makes it into the finals of a major competition like the UEFA Champions League (didn't BATE Borisov do this recently?) and a pro club plays against them in those rounds, I think players from either team should be able to pass WP:ATHLETE. I'm not so sure that FA Cups (especially in the qualifying rounds) should do the same. Jogurney ( talk) 00:03, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
The answer, as I have said repeatedly, is to ignore things like WP:ATHLETE and whether one club or the other is fully-pro, but to rely on the general notability guidelines and require multiple, non-trivial coverage from independent reliable sources before any subject merits an article. - fchd ( talk) 06:33, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
In principle, I would say appearance against semi-pro opposition does not confer notability, but maybe there should be a threshhold of competition beyond which the semi-pro nature of opposition seeks to be a barrier to inclusion. If any of Nantes' 2000 French cup winning team made their debut in that final, it would be churlish to disqualify their article on the grounds that part time side Calais RUFC had had an extraordinary run to the final. Kevin McE ( talk) 07:08, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Given the luck of the draw of the FA Cup, it seems unfair to me that a player's appearance for a professional team against a semi-pro team would not be counted, when if the balls had been drawn out in a slightly different order, they could have well faced a pro team and be included. At least 48 League clubs & plenty of professional Conference clubs make up the 80 who take part in the First Round of the FA Cup - with by far the majority enjoying pro status, a few so semi-pro clubs in the mix does not in my view make appearances in it from that stage onwards non-notable. Qwghlm ( talk) 08:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
It all depends how literally people take WP:ATHLETE. Since games between pro and semi-pro are not that common, this means we are only dealing with players who have only played a single game or part-game at a pro club, or a couple at most. So the question is more "are players who have played a few minutes for a pro team notable"? Had I participated in the Merella AfD I'd have said delete. The sum total of coverage in the national press about his pro career appears to consist of "Defender Kevin Nicholson came to the home side's rescue when he blocked Dominic Merella's late shot in the last 10 minutes", which to me does not class as "significant coverage". Oldelpaso ( talk) 09:38, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
The slippery slope fallacy is a crap argument. Nevertheless I don't see this move advancing us anywhere.
I don't see how deleting a perfectly decent article on people like Eddie Anaclet makes Wikipedia a better place. FA Trophy winner, played Conference play-off semi-finals and has played enough games at this stage in his career to suggest he'll be playing in the Conference for some time yet, possibly making it to the Football League again if he happens to play for the right team. This shows that he is already considered notable enough by vandals to warrant their attention.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 10:02, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Surely it does matter who the opposition are in a Cup match? If the team had been drawn against better opposition the player probably wouldn't have played. There's usually a reason why the only game they've played is against lesser opponents- they weren't good enough to play against teams from their own league.
Having said that, a player that fails WP:ATHLETE but passes WP:N still should have an article- I'd say Eddie Anaclet is an example of that; there are multiple reliable sources in his article that are about him and not just passing mentions. Stu.W UK ( talk) 11:10, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
I think it dilutes the strength of WP:FOOTYN to say that somebody playing for a pro side against a semi-pro side in a cup competition is notable, but to hold the line that somebody playing for a pro club in a mixed league (eg conference national) isn't. You'd end up with articles for every player that plays for a fully pro club, irrespective of the competition. Then you would get someone else coming along saying what about X, he played in the same competition - surely he is notable? I think we need to hold the line where it is. Quite frequently a young player will be selected for a match against a semi-pro side in the cup precisely because it is weaker opposition that the pro side has been drawn against (ie they wouldn't have played if they had been drawn against a pro team).
Jmorrison230582 (
talk)
16:58, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Can someone of our admins put the hammer (or at least keep an eye) on this newly created user? He has mostly been vandalizing Scottish league and cup articles in order to praise his Rangers. A warning has been issued. Thanks, a tired Soccer-holic I hear voices in my head... 01:11, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi I've noticed that Brechin City's entry is badly vandalised and needs to be sorted out by some one who knows about the club. (3 June 2009) Biofuelsimon ( talk) 11:26, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
I could accept an article on an as-yet-unbuilt stadium being built by a Premier League team, but an as-yet-unbuilt stadium being built by a semi-professional team playing in the seventh tier of English football surely isn't notable? If it matters, note that, although the article claims the stadium will be ready for next season, in fact building work hasn't even started in earnest and the club will be groundsharing with Ashford Town F.C. (Kent) next season -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 20:25, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Is there a comprehensive list of fully-pro leagues? The Hack 02:28, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Although professional football was introduced in the Netherlands in 1954, the first fullpro club was DWS in 1965. In 1964 there were still salary caps. Minimum wage: 1500 gulden a year for 12 players. 1000 gulden for additional players. Maximum wage 10000 gulden a year for 6 players, 5000 gulden for additional players. There was a 20% bonus for players serving a club for more than 5 years. Many Eredivisie players in the 70's were still semipro. Cattivi ( talk) 09:28, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
The problem with a list such as this is that it overlooks the historical aspects. I expect that every (now) professional league, throughout the world, has evolved from being wholly/mainly amateur to fully-professional. There were amateur players in the Football League at least into the 1950s and possibly later. Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 16:05, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
At WP:FPL, a user keeps adding the top three tiers of the Israeli football system to the list citing a foreign source. The Israeli Premier League is fully-pro. However, it's highly unlikely that the second and third divisions are, but I'm at as loss as what to do/how to resolve the issue. -- Jimbo [online] 22:29, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Whilst hunting around for something to swing this argument one way or another, I found this forum post which says that Hapoel Acre (who at the time were in Liga Leumit) "has always been considered a semi-professional team". Not sure whether this is meant literally (i.e. they really are semi-pro) or whether it's just supporters of rival teams who feel this way, but it's a little something to start with. If they really are semi-pro though, the fact they've just been promoted to the top flight is also interesting... Bettia (bring on the trumpets!) 13:34, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't know what constitutes notability for football related articles, but I came across this article in Special:NewPages: Celtic FC Result 10/08/2008. I've left it with a plain notability tag, but maybe it qualifies for speedy delete.
Also, the same user created Celtic F.C. season 2008–09. I would strike me as something that might already exist, or fit in somewhere else, or be called something else ... but like the above, I don't know. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid ( coṁrá) 22:10, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Folks. Quick note, we've got a football-related featured list (a pretty important one!) which has been nominated for demotion from its featured status. For those who are interested in helping out, see the criteria (which have been recently and quite significantly reworked) and then get stuck in. Cheers. The Rambling Man ( talk) 12:42, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
What do people think of my solution of including the Proactive agency/Paul Stretford trial info in the article? There's been a lot of back and forth on this but I still think it doesn't warrant a great deal of attention. I'd appreciate other's thoughts. Sillyfolkboy ( talk) ( edits) WIKIPROJECT ATHLETICS NEEDS YOU! 14:57, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Listed in the Port Vale F.C. players category I went to expand it. Only when I went to write in the details of his career there I discovered hes not in any of my books. Can anyone do some research and see if and when he signed for Vale and what happened? In the area of 1902 apparently.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 19:14, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
According to both Joyce and Matthews, Len Evans, Wales international goalkeeper, went somewhere called Svenborg in 1935 after finishing at Birmingham and before becoming trainer at Blackburn. Can anyone possibly tell me where Svenborg is, assuming that's the right spelling, and whether Mr Evans was playing or coaching or what he was doing there? thanks, Struway2 ( talk) 19:56, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Are Confederation Cup squad templates like this actually useful for Wikipedia? Thoughts? -- Angelo ( talk) 00:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Two of the footballers named Andy Aitken have been moved to (born xxxx) rather than (footballer born xxxx). Could an admin please revert these moves? Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 04:54, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
This needs a bit of sorting in the names, as they are unnecessarily long. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 10:59, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Regarding the use of flags in international match articles (e.g. 2006 FIFA World Cup Final), we have the small flag icons in the infobox and in the match details section, fair enough. But do we really need the large flags above the team line-ups as well? These are disproportionately large, unnecessary and patronise the reader. Does anyone have any objections to me removing these? -- Jameboy ( talk) 12:43, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
'Jeroentje is door hem neer geschopt. hij wou hem toen uitkappen maar jeroentje gaf de bal voor. Rhoon heeft toen met 7-1 gewonnen'
I'm re-writing the Nico Jalink article. Sadly it seems to have been deleted from the Dutch Wikipedia for that reason. Can anyone translate that for me as I am curious to know why?-- EchetusXe ( talk) 15:39, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi all, I've been recently dealing with a disputed inclusion of a Pavarotti and Modena FC section within Modena F.C. by an anonymous user. Since the user seems to be definitely WP:POINTing his arguments against evidence, I would appreciate if you might join Talk:Modena F.C. and discuss the issue there. -- Angelo ( talk) 18:38, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Corry Evans made his full debut for Northern Ireland tonight against Italy, however he is yet to play in a competitive match for Man Utd, so is he now notable or as he plays for Man Utd does he still not qualify? Jimmy Skitz's Answer Machine 19:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Scott P. Brown (English footballer) Scott Brown (English footballer)
Both decided to go and play for Bristol City in 2004 and 2005 and both played for Cheltenham Town between 2007 and 2009.
Now one of them decided to get arrested in October 2005, it would be pretty embarrassing on our part to label the wrong one as the brawler.
However I believe its my guy (no middle name) based on the fact that in 2006 the BBC was still calling the three guys teammates despite P.Brown having moved on to Cheltenham by then. Also here is the face of the convicts, here is P Brown. White guys all look the same to me, but I'm pretty sure that the goalkeeper is not one of those 3 pictured.
I'm confident I have reported the correct Scott Brown as the one arrested, but with the chances of a cock-up so obvious I decided it best if I got confirmation here.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 22:57, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
I would appreciate a third opinion on Talk:CA Marbella#Famous players. Rettetast ( talk) 12:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Based on stats from Jack Rollin's excellent book Soccer at War: 1939 - 45, I've compiled a list of all of Manchester United's guest players from during the Second World War. However, they were all without full names – only initials – and while I was able to match a few articles to some of the names (thanks to anyone who categorised articles into Category:Manchester United F.C. wartime guest players), I was wondering if anyone here would be able to help identify a few more names. If you recognise a name, feel free to fill in the full name, along with any common nickname(s), and preferably link to the player's article if he has one. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. – Pee Jay 22:31, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Over at Talk:Liverpool 0–2 Arsenal (26 May 1989) there is a debate over the form of article titles for matches which are notable, but do not have a formal title such as 2006 FIFA World Cup Final or a well-established nickname such as Agony of Doha. There doesn't seem to be a consistent name form - looking over the category for matches, it varies considerably, e.g.:
Including team names, and years, seem fairly elementary and non-controversial. Some additional thoughts:
So I propose article titles of the format Team A x–y Team B (year), with an optional further disambiguation to Team A x-y Team B (date) if the year and scoreline aren't sufficient on their own. Others' thoughts are welcome... Qwghlm ( talk) 11:27, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
I think it depends on what makes the match notable notable. Germany 1-5 England was notable because of the scoreline. England v Scotland (1872) is notable because of the year in which it was played.
I think it should be team a v team b (year) or team a ?-? team b (year) as the standard.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 17:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
The more I think about this, the more I think standardising a convention is a bad idea. Matches notable for their score need the score in their title. Others do not. Some need disambiguation, using year will be normal, but the Eng / Arg example above is a good case of where that would be insufficient. I think that the standardisation should go as far as to set parameters to be chosen from - dates, if used, go at the end in brackets. Versus, if used, should be a simple "v". Which dash to use in scorelines. Etc. -- Dweller ( talk) 15:40, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, I missed that this debate was going on. As the person who brought up the issue on the Liverpool-Arsenal page, my complaint is simply about using titles that might be used in conversation. I have trouble imagining someone saying "Did you see Liverpool 0–2 Arsenal (26 May 1989) last night?" I do believe someone might sound more natural saying "Did you see the 1989 Liverpool-Arsenal match last night?" That's why I suggested the change. For an across-the-pond example, see 2007 New England Patriots-New York Giants game, which is the game in which the Patriots completed their record-setting 16-0 season. I think you can overindicate the content of an article in the title, when all you need is a pointer to what it's about. See also my comment on Talk:Luton Town 1–0 Millwall (13 March 1985).-- Mike Selinker ( talk) 14:01, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
This may sound strange, but I´m really having a hard time to find the complete squad lists of the Yugoslav First League teams from 1991 until 2000. The Playerhistory website is incomplete. Can anyone help me? FkpCascais ( talk) 19:08, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't get it...... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 08:57, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
This Scottish player has recently died, but as far as I can see, he's only played in the semi-pro Scottish second & third divisions...can anyone prove his notability? Cheers, Giant Snowman 11:44, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
This isn't going anywhere fast. Before I give in and take it to AfD, anyone fancy having a go at turning into a real article? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:55, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Doesn't look like a notable player, and I thought you people might be able to sort it more quickly than I can. Thanks, or get back to me if I need to AfD it myself, or whatever. Itsmejudith ( talk) 20:36, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
I've come across this article about an amateur league in Ireland, which links to pages about all of its Senior teams, and many of its lesser teams. The linked articles say nothing more than that the team is a member of the LSL. Does Wikipedia really need articles on every amateur football league and team? WikiDan61 ChatMe! ReadMe!! 12:19, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
As far as I was aware, Gordon Ramsay was only ever a youth player at Rangers...however, an article written by him in 2002 claims that he made two first-team appearances, saying "I played two first-team games, against St Johnstone and Morton. Both away and both shit in the sense that I played 20 minutes and 10 minutes." Can anyone verify this? Cheers, Giant Snowman 12:31, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
I noticed a box in need of conversion, Template:1986 FIFA World Cup, and I'm having trouble figuring out the markup to prevent nested boxes from being broken. Any assistance would be appreciated, especially because I would then be able to make these edits properly on other templates. Thanks. JohnnyPolo24 ( talk) 14:25, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
A copuple of players – Ferenc Nyers and Nicolae Simatoc are just two that spring to mind – played for a Hungarian club called Hungaria FbC Roma in the early 1950s. Seeing as these players also played at the top-levels of France and Spain respectively, I presume Hungaria FbC Roma was/is a notable club. Does anyone know if Hungaria FbC Roma is the correct naming convention, and if not, what is? And does anyone have any further details on the club? Cheers, Giant Snowman 15:03, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi,
Would it be possible to have the "Senior club appearances and goals counted for the domestic league only" message disabled for a specific player? In Brazil (and I bet in other countries, too) we usually count all goals a player has scored for a given team in every *official* match, regardless of whether it was for the local state league, one of the many national domestic leagues (there's no such thing as "the" domestic league in Brazil), or international leagues (Copa Libertadores, for instance).
What is happening right now is that .br users are simply ignoring that message -- and providing bad information to our readers. I'd say the vast majority of the pages concerning Brazilian football players are wrong in that regard.
Thank you for your attention.
Pedrovsky ( talk) 17:58, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Robin van der Laan. Does anyone know whether I am supposed to write: "Van der Laan..." or "van der Laan..." when starting a sentence with his name? Do I just write "Laan...".
Help pl0x.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 18:08, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
In the middle of a sentence it's not capitalised, except when it's someone from Belgium. Cattivi ( talk) 10:17, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Does article Trimi Makolli meet the requirement for WP:CSD acording to A7?
The player is not part of the senior squad, hes youth squad player, have not played any matches for the club more then a few friendly in the 2009 pre-season. --> Halmstad, Charla to moi 18:39, 11 June 2009 ( UTC)
Could somebody keep an eye on the Michael Husbands article? I don't know anything about him, but there have been a lot of suspicious edits recently, I'm not sure if the edits are correct or not (other than the unsourced speculation), so if my reverts are wrong, then please revert me, otherwise, it needs to be watched. Who then was a gentleman? ( talk) 18:46, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
"(i have erased false information about michael husbands)". I can't understand this, all of the information in the article is fully supported by articles from the BBC. Seems as though this individual wants to believe that Husbands never left Vale Park for some reason.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 13:30, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
As you can see, DragoLink08 has changed a couple of "Football in <country>" templates to a "more colorful" layout, similar to those of the national team templates. Revert or not revert? -- Soccer-holic I hear voices in my head... 10:58, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Why do we use different colours anyway. Wouldn't it be better to use the standard template colour on all footy templates? Are there any gain other than the bleeding eyesore at the bottom on thousands of articles? Rettetast ( talk) 16:15, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
In the Swansea City vs AS Monaco tie in European Cup Winners' Cup 1991–92, Swansea has the Welsh flag whereas Monaco has the French flag (not the Monaco flag). Is this an inconsistency and which should be changed, if either? -- Jameboy ( talk) 22:50, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Is this article worth it? Seeing as it is a list of lower-league players, I reckon the vast majority will fail notability, meaning we have what is basically a list of non-notable footballers... Giant Snowman 00:39, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
There exists Joe Smith (footballer born 1889), England international, maker of 612 Football League appearances and scorer of 380 goals, with a long managerial career, already dabbed by birth year because of Joe Smith (footballer born 1890), England international and maker of 482 Football League appearances, but clearly the primary target for people looking up Joe Smiths born in 1889. Does anyone have any sensible suggestions as to what I should I name an article on a rather less prominent Joe Smith, English footballer born 1889, who played 8 league games before being killed in action in the First World War? cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 09:27, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
A. Falcao ( talk · contribs) insists on removing club categories from the articles of youth players, even though I have directed him to previous consenus that such categories should be kept. I am about to approach my 3RR limit, please could someone else have a polite word with him? Cheers, Giant Snowman 13:46, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
For information, there was a more recent discussion of this matter at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 31#Football player categories, which had input from both sides of the argument, but finished off with a pertinent comment, that "As is common on this discussion page, it's quite possible for us to resolve this simply by looking beyond our own WikiProject guidelines and at the general ones - if a player is tied to a club by multiple reliable secondary sources, he should be in their category. If not, then not." cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 14:15, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Should Baichung Bhutia be moved to Bhaichung Bhutia? I requested a move but so far no one has agreed or disagreed with me. Spiderone ( talk) 15:49, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong with my implementation of Template:Infobox football tournament season in FA Cup 2007–08? I can't get the image to show. Not sure if it's me or a template issue. -- Jameboy ( talk) 20:13, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Can an admin please re-create the above article? The player is making his debut for FC Dallas right now. Source is here: http://web.mlsnet.com/scoreboard/game.jsp?match=06132009_HOUDAL. Thanks! -- JonBroxton ( talk) 00:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone know if it is fully-pro? -- Jimbo [online] 07:47, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I think this requires admin attention. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 10:08, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Could anyone with a copy of Michael Joyce's "Football League Players' Records 1888 - 1939" please provide me with a record of Tom Wilcox's career? The article currently lists him as having played for Huddersfield Town from 1910 to 1911, but my book of Manchester United players lists him as having played for Carlisle from 1909 to 1912! Any help? – Pee Jay 15:05, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
The above article is being re-assessed as part of the GA Sweeps project The re-assessment has been placed on hold. It hasn't failed because it's basically a good article, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass; otherwise it will fail. See 1930 FIFA World Cup for things needing to be addressed. Jezhotwells ( talk) 20:18, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't know if anyone else here has come across the above-mentioned user, but he seems to have taken to adding "diaries" to the Manchester United season articles. Are these encyclopaedic? – Pee Jay 22:50, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Can someone take a look at The_Football_League_2008–09#League_Two_3 and Football_League_Two_2008–09#Top_scorers. Do u really count the goals from regular season + promotion playoffs (+ FA Cup (in one case))? Simeon Jackson scored 17 goals during the season, 3 in playoffs, 1 in FA Cup and 1 for Canada, so perhaps we can increase it to 22? ;-) -- Ureinwohner ( talk) 23:14, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
So yeah, another case of me going off to bring an article up to scratch only for me to find no evidence of the player actually playing for Port Vale. Can someone please do a little check to see if what is there already is accurate (and that he was indeed signed to Vale)?-- EchetusXe ( talk) 00:40, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Requesting comments at Talk:Football#Disambig for a proposed rework of Football. Regards, jnestorius( talk) 12:13, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Would members of your project please weigh in at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Albert Roca Puyol. Who then was a gentleman? ( talk) 17:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
I would like to invite discussion on the talk page of Kit (association football). The talk surrounds Image congestion on the page, input is required for this is a Featured Article.-- Lucy-marie ( talk) 21:26, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
I am not happy with Tommy Fraser having this fact at his article unreferenced: [Fraser is the grandson of "Mad" Frankie Fraser, a former member of the Richardson Gang]
It says as much on Frankie Fraser's article but can anyone find a reference?-- EchetusXe ( talk) 22:01, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
9 Albanian players have been grouped for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Egland Haxho. If you agree with me that some (if not all) should be saved then can you assist in adding information and references to the articles so that hopefully they can be kept. I will try and concentrate on Egland Haxho and Arbër Abilaliaj. Hope you can assist. Eldumpo ( talk) 07:25, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Where are people getting squad info from for squad templates? the Wolves one is somewhat different to the names and numbers on the official website. I realise the old season is finishing and there will be changes for the new season, but surely guessing at names without back-up amounts to WP:OR. --ClubOranje T 11:36, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Those of you who edit non-league football articles will undoubtedly have used Tony Kempster's website (www.tonykempster.co.uk) to look for information, since it is invaluable for making sense of the lower reaches of the pyramid. Sadly, he has lost his battle with liver cancer, and passed away last night. Oldelpaso ( talk) 13:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Can someone watch the Sergio Aguero page because it's being vandalised constantly. Spiderone ( talk) 17:01, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm having trouble with a guy who keeps adding guff about how Ince spent more than any Blackburn manager in the last five seasons. To me, it seems unnecessarily defamatory about Ince and completely POV, but this guy just won't listen. Help pls! – Pee Jay 19:28, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd look at solving it myself, but I'm terrible with template coding. One of the Spanish football templates (I'm not sure which one, but it's one of the two that I just used on Regional Preferente de Ceuta) puts a link to the Hebrew version of the template as an article link. It has happened on more than one article I've recently used it on. Does anyone who is good with templates know how to remove this thing? I think it's trying to wikilink the templates together, but instead it just creates wikilinks from all articles on which the template is used to that template on the Hebrew Wikipiedia. I know these probably aren't exactly high traffic articles that will create widespread problems for a lot of people, but I'm at a loss of how to fix it myself. matt91486 ( talk) 19:44, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Is it just me or is this template a bit unnecessary? The image is a bit unruly, especially when a player has scored more than one goal in a game. I think it would be much more appropriate to just have the goal times with a number in brackets to indicate how many goals the player scored (if more than one). – Pee Jay 22:14, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
{{
goal|22|44|o.g.|90+2|pen.}}
would give
22', 44' (
o.g.), 90+2' (
pen.) - how does that sound?
Chris Cunningham (not at work) -
talk
15:21, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
On what grounds is an icon of a ball representative of a goal? The ball is as relevant to a tackle, throw-in or goal kick as it is to scoring a goal. Kevin McE ( talk) 16:27, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Can't see anything wrong with how things are done at the moment. Is this really the most important thing some people have to worry about? Darryl.matheson ( talk) 23:33, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
ClubOranje 22', 67', 90+2' Yay, I scored a hat-trick --ClubOranje T 06:17, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Expanded to support up to five goals, per the above discussion. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 07:48, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 25 | ← | Archive 30 | Archive 31 | Archive 32 | Archive 33 | Archive 34 | Archive 35 |
The article about Argentine manager Oscar Fulloné states that he played for Estudiantes de La Plata, I can find nothing to verify this, (he doesn't seem to have ever played in Argentina) it also states that he played for Aston Villa, which seems unlikely. Can anyone shed any light on his playing career? King of the North East 21:00, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
He didn't play any league matches for Real Oviedo, but an Argentinian player "Fullones" signed a 2 year contract with Oviedo in 1963 according to El Mundo Deportivo Cattivi ( talk) 00:14, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone know of any reliable sources about his playing/managerial career, we hate unreferenced BLPs don't we? King of the North East 12:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone have any sourced stats for Gary Phillips (footballer), who played in the Football League during the 1980s and a bit in the 90s. The only source I could find was neilbrown's but I'm n ot sure if these include cup comps. Cheers, -- Jimbo [online] 22:15, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Could an admin please recreate Hermann Stessl. The page was deleted twice but this guy coached some major clubs through Europe. Thanks.-- Latouffedisco ( talk) 07:01, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
This message is being sent to WikiProjects with GAs under their scope. Since August 2007, WikiProject Good Articles has been participating in GA sweeps. The process helps to ensure that articles that have passed a nomination before that date meet the GA criteria. After nearly two years, the running total has just passed the 50% mark. In order to expediate the reviewing, several changes have been made to the process. A new worklist has been created, detailing which articles are left to review. Instead of reviewing by topic, editors can consider picking and choosing whichever articles they are interested in.
We are always looking for new members to assist with reviewing the remaining articles, and since this project has GAs under its scope, it would be beneficial if any of its members could review a few articles (perhaps your project's articles). Your project's members are likely to be more knowledgeable about your topic GAs then an outside reviewer. As a result, reviewing your project's articles would improve the quality of the review in ensuring that the article meets your project's concerns on sourcing, content, and guidelines. However, members can also review any other article in the worklist to ensure it meets the GA criteria.
If any members are interested, please visit the GA sweeps page for further details and instructions in initiating a review. If you'd like to join the process, please add your name to the running total page. In addition, for every member that reviews 100 articles from the worklist or has a significant impact on the process, s/he will get an award when they reach that threshold. With ~1,300 articles left to review, we would appreciate any editors that could contribute in helping to uphold the quality of GAs. If you have any questions about the process, reviewing, or need help with a particular article, please contact me or OhanaUnited and we'll be happy to help. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 ( talk • contrib) 05:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I wanted to draw the group's attention to the large backlog of footballer articles that are included in the Category:Unreferenced BLPs. By by estimation (using Catscan which only shows 1,000 articles at a time), there are 5,000–10,000 footballer articles in this backlog. I think everyone would agree this is a problem (it is a large percentage of the overall unreferenced BLP backlog - maybe as much as 25%).
In order to reduce this backlog and its negative impact on the project, I think we need to make a coordinated effort to attack the problem. I've been going through footballers from specific countries and now the A's and trying to add sources wherever possible (even if they are poor ones) and Prod'ing the ones that are clearly not notable or verifiable. Many of these players are internationals and are easily sourced, but others are obscure (to me at least) and it's a challenge to source them. In particular, I've noticed that many are from Asia or North Africa (Japan, Thailand, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt and Libya have more than I expected). If anyone is familiar with Asian football (or reads Arabic), I expect they could source these articles much easier. There are also a large amount of articles about players who probably fail WP:ATHLETE - Albanians, Bosnians and Montenegrins playing in their domestic leagues.
We also have to find a way to reduce the creation of new unreferenced footballer BLPs. I've noticed most of the editors that created articles in the backlog are no longer active, so they are unlikely to add to the problem. Others are WP:FOOTY project members (I've created quite a few before I knew better). I don't think many project members are still making unreferenced articles, and I've been leaving notes with the few that are so hopefully they will help out. Another thing to consider is these unreferenced articles seem to follow a pattern - new editor signs up and creates dozens (or in some case hundreds) of articles about his or her local team or league over a few week period. Then, the editor loses interest and we have dozens or hundreds of new unreferenced BLPs.
There are certainly other approaches, such as Prod'ing hundreds of the articles at a time and hoping the creators are still active and will source them. I think we should act now as a group to address the problem and hope that others have ideas on how to attack it. Any help would be appreciated. Best regards. Jogurney ( talk) 19:17, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
What if we make a list of all the articles unsourced BLPs and sort them by country. This should be feasible by intersecting All Unreferenced BLPs with the subcats of Category:Football (soccer) players by nationality. I know it is much easier sourcing articles that about footballers from my homecountry. Rettetast ( talk) 21:09, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Great work. May I make one suggestion, that if there is still unsourced personal information left in an article after people add sources for football stuff, please could we replace the {{ BLP unsourced}} tag with {{ BLP sources}} - the equivalent of refimprove - rather than just removing the unsourced tag. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 08:16, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I updated the full list to see if there was any progress. We went from 5203 articles to ...5225. Rettetast ( talk) 00:43, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
If anyone is interested I could make lists based on a club category. It is probably easier to find sources about players that have bin in "your" club. This has to be done on a request basis though. Anyone who wants to give it a try? Rettetast ( talk) 15:16, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I've moved both David Hutton pages because one page just said David Hutton and the other said David Hutton (footballer born 1989). Seriously why the hell would you not change the Scottish Footballer's page when you have an English Footballer with the same name? It just totally fucks everything up and the reason is that was because I typed David Hutton under search and I clicked go and it sent me to the Scottish Footballer's page and I typed it again and pushed the space bar and another said David Hutton (footballer born 1989), so now both pages are David Hutton (Scottish footballer) and David Hutton (English footballer). – Michael ( talk) 00:55, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Can an admin restore him back to David Hutton (footballer born 1989) because in the future if another Irish David Hutton turns up it would be inappropriate to have the name as such right? Govvy ( talk) 20:52, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Quite a few of these national teams are up for AfD. As a single entity they don't seem to meet notability, but collectivly would they? Is it worth creating a new article and umbrella some of them under a name along the lines of Non-affliated national football teams? -- Jimbo [online] 15:51, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Is there any rule (or at least guideline) concerning club notability outside English football league system? Here I mean those small leagues that don't have thousand clubs or so. I've found an article about the Icelandic club called Dalvík/Reynir. It was mainly written (very well, I must say) by User:Gullijons, and that club is probably user's hometown club. Anyway, it's not that I don't appreciate the user's effort, but how notable this club really is? The fact is that it never played in any league higher that fourth and bottom league ( 3. deild karla), which is, you guess, fully amateur. As for cup, on Iceland ALL clubs are eligible to enter the cup from the First Round and it reached Fourth Round (Round of 32) in 2007.
The club itself is just an example through which I want to ask what about the notability of those clubs that belong to smaller associations? SonjiCeli ( talk) 20:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
A rough guidline was set with Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Notability, have a look there. Under those criterias, the club is notable because it played in the national cup competition. EA210269 ( talk) 08:53, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi there teammates, i bring to you another doubt,
I have seen that user Mega60 has been removing the updates on retired players, on exactly those grounds (players no longer play), hence "enters" my question, maybe he could be right, i don't know, wanted to bring this up to the forum before i message him:
What are the patterns here? My approach (which can be VERY MUCH wrong) was/is the following: For Playing Club (PC), i usually inserted the date that closed last season (i.e. 31 July 2002 if player's last season was 2001-02), for National Team (NT), not much gray area, i obviously added the day player last appeared for country. Is this correct or is our man MEGA correct (meaning no updates whatsoever must be applied in retired players)?
Attentively, VASCO AMARAL, PORTUGAL - -- NothingButAGoodNothing ( talk) 22:30, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
-- NothingButAGoodNothing ( talk) 00:09, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone happen to know if the
William Reynolds (footballer) first-named on {{
BSC Young Boys managers}} is a) William Thomas Reynolds born 1870 in Tewkesbury who played for Small Heath in the 1890s; b) William Reynolds born 18789 in Manchester who played for Burton/Clapton/Grimsby/Swindon in the 1900s; c) some other bloke entirely? cheers,
Struway2 (
talk)
12:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I mentioned to User:HonorTheKing that the (C) and (R) marks on league tables such as Premier League 2007–08 are redundant. We have already highlighted the fact that people are champions by (a) league positions by points from top down (b) colours denoting the different achievements and (c) the comments column (where applicable). Isn't it a bit overkill? Surely people will get the point that three clubs are relegated by the fact they are in a big red area labelled as "relegated to championship"? Similarly, who would ever expect the team in any place other than the top to be the champions? The more we simplify these things the better, and the colouring and comments already resolve any accessibility problems. Sillyfolkboy ( talk) ( edits) WIKIPROJECT ATHLETICS NEEDS YOU! 12:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Surely {{ WUclubs}} is a non-notable template? Giant Snowman 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Would the Suruga Bank Championship match qualify as notable to have its own article? Digirami ( talk) 20:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
First, this discussion should perhaps take place on UEFA Cup, if this is the case we can move it there.
Tonight (or tomorrow night for those still on Tuesday) as most are aware, the last UEFA Cup final will be played. Though imo there's no need to have a plan ready for the final whistle, there might at least be nice to come up with a consensus for implementation. My proposal would be to treat it as the European Cup/UEFA Champions League situation, this includes, article moves (some changes in the UEFA Cup article will also be needed), categories, templates etc. Should for example these three articles ( List of UEFA Cup winners, UEFA Cup records and statistics, List of UEFA Cup winning managers) stay until until we actually have any Europa League winners, should the records and stats be changed upon the start of next season? chan dler ··· 03:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I was wondering what people's opinions were on the remaining teams on these two templates: Template:NF-Board_teams and Template:Non-FIFA_teams. I've already nominated what I felt were the least notable (or completely unverifiable) teams, but I can't really decide where to draw a line. Some of the teams have only ever competed in one competition, e.g the ELF Cup or UNPO Cup. Would those teams' pages be better off merged into the tournament article? How about the Spanish regional teams which seem to play one game a year around christmas etc etc etc Stu.W UK ( talk) 12:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I'd say the majority of them past notability with the exception of a few, but no clear criteria has been put forth. I'd say Madeira would pass general notability. The deletion seems to be quite hasty, perhaps instead of trying to delete them all, an effort to add references will be more suited - as that's what seems to be the main point of argument in all these AfDs. I've seen loads of FIFA affliated teams without/few reliable references, does this mean they should be bundled in too? -- Jimbo [online] 08:14, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Just found this article categorised in the main football category. All of the info seems a bit contrived, especially the bit about the stadium being the only one in Ireland with undersoil heating and a cantilever roof, and the bit about the sponsorship by McVitie's. Furthermore, the main editor of the article seems to have the same surname as one of the people who was listed as a famous past player until I deleted it. Hoax, anyone? – Pee Jay 10:25, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Nearby Coolock Town F.C. of the Amateur Football League are a more significant team and they don't meet notability criteria either.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 10:56, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Category:Beechlawn Rovers F.C. players has also been created. Would this go through speedy when the parent article is deleted? -- Jimbo [online] 12:47, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
An IP keeps adding some highly POV commentary on the split between Enfield Town F.C. and Enfield (1893) F.C., despite my constant efforts to rewmove it. Can others keep an eye out, as I'm getting bored of reverting it -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 11:44, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
A new editor keeps adding a list of "Transfers to European clubs" to this article, something which has happened sporadically from IPs and new accounts over the last year or so. Can someone else keep an eye on it or have a word with him, as I'm tired of reverting. Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 15:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Someone has moved the Serbian manager Milovan Rajevać over its redirect to the accentless Milovan Rajevac. As he is Serbian and therfore should have an accent in his name, could a lovely admin please move it back? Cheers, Giant Snowman 00:58, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Blackpool F.C. - what's the "all-time topscorer" field doing in the infobox...........? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 08:55, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Is there any evidence this guy played professionally? The match against Milan referred to (which the article helpfully doesn't date) appears to have happened in 1913, and Reading wouldn't join the Football League until 1920, after Foster apparently died. If he never played in the League for any other club(s), presumably we should treat him like a modern non-league player and delete the article........? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 09:25, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I was wondering if Charlie Bell, the former manager of Bournemouth and Mansfield [3] [4] was the guy as the Marseille and Nice manager in France [5]. He has also coached Padova see here and possibly Sporting Lisbon [6]. Any clues ? Any informations about his playing career ? Now you must understand I'm very interested in English football pioneers in Europe... Cheers.-- Latouffedisco ( talk) 16:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, something's wrong. The last part of his playing career and early part of his coaching career in England is supposed to be: Barrow, QPR, Coaching jobs at Reading and Notts County (ca. 1921-23) Wigan Borough manager next. His first spell as Sporting trainer was January 1920-summer 1922. Cattivi ( talk) 19:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
The 1919-20 Campeonato de Lisboa ran from 4 January- 16 May 1920-21: from 21 November to 22 May 1921-22: from 13 November- 12 February + 3 championship matches in June against Porto (Source Almanaque do Sporting 1906-2005). He could have been in England for long periods. The only problem left is: he can't have been Barrow's top goalscorer as claimed by the Mansfield complete record book in 1920-21 Cattivi ( talk) 10:30, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Maybe the Bell who started the 1920-21 season with Barrow, isn't the same one who played for them in January 1921. Cattivi ( talk) 11:45, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Article created at Charlie Bell (footballer): feel free to improve it.-- Latouffedisco ( talk) 07:20, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Hoax? Hubschrauber729 ( talk) 20:34, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Could someone please also check whether Anthony Rush and Ronnie Walsh are also hoaxes. They were created by the same editor as Ian Ugarde.- gadfium 21:20, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
DavidHurst ( talk · contribs) seems to think that the new season has started today, when infact it starts on 1 July. Just thought I'd bring his edits to attention. Mattythewhite ( talk) 17:43, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
What should be used for the "report" parameter in Template:Footballbox (since only one can be added)? Another editor changed my BBC link to a Soccerbase one, but I'd have thought that a match write-up would be preferred to purely statistical information? This is not a complaint against the other user however, as the template documentation gives no guidance whatsoever. -- Jameboy ( talk) 19:28, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
1. Article from the official footballing body, i.e. FIFA failing that 2. Article from a reputable news source, i.e. BBC failing that 3. Soccerbase link
I know there are plenty of matches where there exists only a Soccerbase page, but I think that should be a last resort rather than the preferred choice.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 19:39, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Has been making a series of ridiculous page moves. [7] Could an admin revert these please? Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 06:32, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
After being on semi-wikiholiday of late I'm back, and I thought I'd created an article on the 1989 English league title decider, as tomorrow is it's 20th anniversary. Edits and perspectives from a Liverpool PoV welcome. Qwghlm ( talk) 15:26, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
In the vain hope that anyone here is going to the Champions League final on Wednesday, is there any chance that they could upload a photograph of their ticket for inclusion in the 2009 UEFA Champions League Final article? Blurring of your name and any other personal details on the ticket would be advised. – Pee Jay 20:01, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Hey folks. Dweller and I are trying to give the mustachioed genius that is Big Johnny Wark a well-deserved makeover and en route I've discovered, according to his autobiography, his brother was a pro at St Mirren. Anyone got anything I can use to corroborate, back up, expand upon here? He doesn't have an article but I guess if we can find something to cite then this link will not be red 'cos eventually it'll turn blue... Cheers in advance. The Rambling Man ( talk) 16:29, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
This template has been the subject of an argument between Fasach Nua and chandler for a while now and before bans get handed out it might be a good idea if we could reach a consensus on what should be done with it. To save a lot of reading I'll try to offer a paraphrasing of the two sides.
Fasach Nua's argument is that there are only 4 teams that have no successor recognised by FIFA, and these are the only ones that can be recognised as defunct because no other criteria for inclusion or exclusion exists.
Chandler thinks that to not call teams like USSR defunct is absurd regardless of whether technically they were succeeded by Russia.
I have tried, fairly cackhandedly, to make some suggestions of ways to resolve this. The problem is that ultimately I don't really care either way. Any suggestions? Stu.W UK ( talk) 22:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
My point is that it is absurd to not include articles about defunct teams on a navigational template about defunct national teams. And as there seem to be a very long standing consensus to have Russia/CIS/Soviet, Serbia/Yugoslavia, Czechia and Slovakia/Czechoslovakia, Northern Ireland/Ireland pre-split and Vietnam/South Vietnam on multiple articles. And when it comes to at least USSR, YUG, TCH they're not only split in football (national teams, youth teams, leagues, cups, awards), but in country articles, sports like ice hockey, tennis, olympics, rugby, handball or basket. This consensus over all aspects of wikipedia does not seem to be challenged (but ofc not merge requests, presumable because he knows it would fail?) or questioned by anyone other than Fasach nua. This template (like all nav. templates) is here to help readers navigate through articles we have, the information should not be hidden. chan dler • 03:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't really know what to think here. Both sides have valid arguments and I cannot make a choice.-- Latouffedisco ( talk) 07:19, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
I think "Teams whose both names and borders differ from the present" is fine. Population change is not a suitable criteria for labelling it a defunct team. How it stands now is good, if Ireland united then it could be replaced with Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. If Berwick-upon-Tweed becomes a Scottish town then it is not appropriate to label the England and Scotland national teams as defunct.
The Soviet Union does not exist any more, it is history. India (pre-1949), ok so it lost vast amounts of territory and citizens in the partition but India is a country of 1 billion people today, it is anything but defunct. A being team labelled under "Teams whose both names and borders differ from the present" does not mean it can't have a successor team.
I think we just have to use common sense here.
What criteria are needed? I suggest the following:
1. There is not currently a state of that name in existence. 2. Whose borders are significantly different to how they are now. 3. There is a non-stub article on the team in question in place. 4. The team was at one time officially recognized by FIFA.
CIS · Czechoslovakia · Ireland · South Vietnam · USSR · SFR Yugoslavia all meet the above criteria.
I would suggest that seen as Serbia and Montenegro played in the 2006 World Cup under that banner then if an article was created it would meet that criteria. There is already a category: 'Category:Serbia and Montenegro international footballers'.
The question of heritage doesn't need to enter into the equation. Two guys from Montenegro were in the squad in 2006, not much of a heritage, the rest were Serbs.
Yugoslavia is defunct, no question. The Serbian national football team article can talk of how it is a successor to the Yugoslav team, but that is irrelevant to this discussion.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 14:08, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Is the final of the one of Mexican league's bi-annual short tournaments notable for its own article? Digirami ( talk) 11:25, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Ok thanks! I take from this that any league match/tie that would determine the season/tournament champion is deemed notable... Correct?
But I have a follow-up. Is the Final Phase, which culminates in the game I mentioned above, notable for it's own article? I know it's commonplace to have an article like that for an international club tournament, but a league seems like a different (obviously). Digirami ( talk) 12:11, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Certainly a clubs youth team doesn't deserve its own squad template. Hubschrauber729 ( talk) 00:36, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
I've suggested Manchester United F.C. for promotion to A-class status. Apparently, I need support from "two uninvolved editors, with no significant opposes", which I hope to get from this WikiProject. I'm fairly sure that the article meets the A-class criteria given here, but comments regarding the improvement of the article would be appreciated at Talk:Manchester United F.C. However, please bear in mind that this is an A-class review, not an FAC, so the quality requirements are not quite as high.
My second point is that this project doesn't currently have an A-class review system. This project may or may not be as big as WP:MILHIST, but an A-class review system similar to theirs ( here) wouldn't go amiss. Thanks. – Pee Jay 00:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
As more and more of the football navigational templates are being converted into {{ navbox}}es, it might be time to make a small change to {{ fb start}}, it's not a big change.
The current code is as follows: {| class="navbox" style="margin: 0.5em auto; width:47em; font-size: 95%;"
and because of the highlighted code the subsequent navboxes inside will display text size improper, example below.
|
| ||
A small difference that will happen if you remove the font-size:95% is that the 47em will be a bit narrower than before, which could be fixed with upping it to about 51 (I'm sure it won't be the exact same size in most browsers, but that isn't important is it), example below.
So I would propose changing the current code (above to) {| class="navbox" style="margin: 0.5em auto; width:51em;"
, unless it would perhaps be suitable to even give it a little more width, perhaps 60em which would make much difference, but give the change to not break lines as often, example above.
But giving more width isn't as important as just removing font-size: 95% and make the width similar to how it is with font-size:95% on, for {{ navbox}} templates to display text size as it is suppose to do. chan dler ♠ 08:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
{| class="navbox" style="margin: 0.5em auto; width:60em;"
.
Rettetast (
talk)
11:25, 26 May 2009 (UTC)I did the change. Rettetast ( talk) 12:46, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Are any Dutch speakers able to find a source which confirms my suspicion that former Dutch international Kees "Pier" Tol (born 1958) and current SC Cambuur player Kees Tol (born 1987) are father and son - both have the given name 'Kees'; both play(ed) as strikers; both were born in Volendam; they were born roughly 30 years apart. Thanks in advance, Giant Snowman 18:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Volendam is a very close-knit community. A catholic enclave, with it's own dialect. A lot of people have the same surname (Tol, Veerman, Kwakman, Schilder etc) Because many people have the same name, nicknames are added (like 'Pier'). Kees "Pier" Tol is his uncle. His father Wim "Pier" Tol was also a Volendam footballer (Eerste divisie 1980-81 topgoalscorer probably not fullpro). this and this Cattivi ( talk) 12:01, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
What should we do about "editors" like this? I stumbled upon four hoax footballer articles this user created (all tagged for speedy deletion) and noticed dozens and dozens of sneaky vandalism edits he or she made to minor Asian and American national football team articles. I even found vandalism he or she snuck into articles in July 2008 that had not yet been caught and reverted. I've left the user a second to last vandalism warning (before I realized the extent of the vandalism). How can we find this kinds of users quicker so they don't sneak so much damage into football articles without anyone noticing? I'm quite sure I didn't revert all of the vandalism but I think I got most of it. Jogurney ( talk) 04:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Who decided to change the fonts in the season templates? Juve2000 ( talk) 20:51, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Fulham F.C. has been nominated for a good article reassessment. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to good article quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. Reviewers' concerns are here. Mattythewhite ( talk) 20:57, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
The article on Conor Molan has been brought up at the BLP noticeboard [8]. An editor claiming to be Molan has expressed a wish for the article to be deleted due to previous vandalism and says it is inaccurate anyway.Could someone take a look at this please? thanks, -- Malcolmxl5 ( talk) 21:31, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Well as it stands, it makes no claim to notability anyway, as the FAI First Division is not fully pro. If he has ever played in a fully pro league, it needs to be up there. Kevin McE ( talk) 22:34, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
A new standard in reliable sources! who could possibly argue with a reference from an "offer of the week" advert for the club's fund-raising calendar? --ClubOranje T 08:32, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
PROD disputed on the grounds he won a TV talent contest, but surely he isn't notable? (If kept, the horrible quality of the article needs some serious work - what's a "midlfieder"?) -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 09:01, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Just a thought regarding the comming opening of the summer transfer window and the countless rumours appearing at the same time, such as Cristiano Ronaldo and Kaká to Real Madrid and Frank Ribery to Manchester United, FC Barcelona and Real Madrid, with these rumours a large serie of IP. nr. appears and changes the club the player plays in solely based on what is said in for example The Times, Marca or La Gazzetta dello Sport, regardless if its in good faith or just pure vandelism, my thought is that we should semi-protect these players until a transfer occur or the transfer window closes.
I belive it might, if done, simplify our work correcting players transfers durring the time, it would prevent a large serie of correction of heavily romoured players. --> Halmstad, Charla to moi 15:31, 18 May 2009 ( UTC)
I'm also in favour of article protection. Let newcomers learn the ropes on low visibility articles.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 18:01, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
I agree that preemptive protection is unnecessary and counterproductive. Speaking of which, here's my first RPP of the not-yet-close season: [9] on Chelsea target Yuri Zhirkov ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). -- Mosmof ( talk) 21:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
A new list in development. If you have anything to contrubute to it, please do so. ArtVandelay13 ( talk) 09:52, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Aside from the issue of whether it's notable or not, I know Julian Hails has a Maths degree. I think Jens Lehman was doing an Open University degree a few years back and I think Sean Canham and a couple of other former Team Bath players did as well - as it was a Uni team after all. -- Jimbo [online] 15:52, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Users have already started updating league articles, templates and club articles with details for the 2009-10 season (e.g. Template:Conference_North, but as far as I know these haven't been announced yet (several positions across the pyramid are subject to appeal and the FA Leagues Committee are keeping quiet for now. - fchd ( talk) 16:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
The FA have now announced the provisional lineups. Most notable is Team Bath folding, which means a number of relegated teams in lower divisions have been repreived. Bettia (bring on the trumpets!) 19:14, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Just been round changing a few clubs' infoboxes back to reflect their 2008/09 divisions played in, as AFAIK the new season still hasn't started, and noticed that the navigational templates {{ Premier League}} etc have already been changed to pick up the 2009/10 team lists. So I'm wondering what's the point of some established editors trying to keep to "this" season when other established editors have already gone on to next? cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 07:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Can an admin please re-create the article for this player. He finally made his MLS debut Chicago Fire tonight. Confirmation is here: http://web.mlsnet.com/scoreboard/game.jsp?match=05282009_CHICHV. Thanks! -- JonBroxton ( talk) 07:59, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
This article needs to be recreated - he played for Hearts against Celtic in the SPL last week. [10] There was also an article in the local paper yesterday about him, which I think said that he has been selected for the full Lithuania squad. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 08:10, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Or, so it seems if we are to believe edits made to Gérard Houllier, Paul Le Guen, Frank Rijkaard, Diego Capel and Ruud van Nistelrooy that I've reverted. It's typical silly season stuff, I guess, but I find it weird that I keep noticing unsourced stuff about managers headed to Galatasaray or Fenerberche. I can't tell if it's just one user posting from multiple Turkish IPs or if the Turkish media is especially into speculating. But please keep an eye out for players and managers prematurely headed to an Istanbul club. -- Mosmof ( talk) 18:23, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm making a edit war about the player full name. Although i have a name list of 30,000+ player name list and CBF id in a PDF, but the unique page is dead and i cannot found the link of download page of the PDF back, but the player official site, the club he play, kicker, playerhistory.com, and CBF all refer as Claudemir Jeronimo Barretto only. and his brother called Vlademir Jeronimo Barreto. And sambafoot, worldfootball.net transfermarkt.de (but cite his German passport is Claudemir Barretto) refer him as Jeronimo Maria Barretto Claudemir da Silva. How come a mid-name of even part of a Portuguese surname became first name, and a first name became a mid-name of even part of a Portuguese surname? And difference from his brother? Should both be used or only former survived ? Matthew_hk t c 23:42, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
ok here is the pdf [11] Matthew_hk t c 23:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
This is a request for help. I've stumbled across the above article and, while I've managed hack out a general shape, it needs some attention to finer details. I don't know much about soccer/football, but this club looks like it has some claims to notability. I think it was copy/pasted wholesale from either the Portuguese or Spanish Wikipedia. Thanks in advance! TN X Man 23:29, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I cleaned up the article and added some sources. -- Carioca ( talk) 21:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
This user persists in deleting a perfectly good photo of Alecko Eskandarian from that player's page (and this is ALL he ever does); despite my repeated attempts to get him to explain what his problem is with the photo, he never uses edit summaries and never responds to queries. I warned him twice about deletion of content, but he ignores the warning and persists in deleting anyway. Any idea what my next step can be? -- JonBroxton ( talk) 00:04, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Maybe the anonymous IP is the guy to the left of the photo, perhaps hes on the run from a madman who has an interest in Armenian-American sportspeople and so is worried the madman will spot the photo and track him down.
Who knows? Anonymous IP's are nutjobs mostly. e.g. this guy. Yes, it is more important to know that a guy called Alan Jones and a guy called Charles Machin used to be directors at the club at sometime in the past, FAR more important and MUCH more interesting information then who every single Chairman in the club's history has been.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 09:34, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
This fella, a Scot, managed Egypt at the 1934 World Cup - anyone got any info on his playing/coaching career back in the UK? Google brings up nothing! Cheers, Giant Snowman 01:27, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
link Cattivi ( talk) 12:17, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
He's the brother of David McCrae (Scottish international) Cattivi ( talk) 12:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
There is no 'bordercolor' parameter in the {{ National squad no numbers}} template - could someone add one please? Many thanks, Giant Snowman 16:14, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Looking at the talk pages over the past couple of weeks, the members of WP:FOOTY had quite a few discussions over things related to season articles. So, SonjiCeli and I thought it would make sense to team up and suggest a collective proposal for a guideline on season articles. Our proposal can be found here.
We tried to stay as close to the well-established "best practises" as we could. However, there is still a chance that we might have missed something or included something controversial, so any comments - either here or on the talk page of the proposal - from as much members of this project as possible would be gladly appreciated. -- Soccer-holic I hear voices in my head... 23:22, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
I know I'm the lone voice here, but I have nothing against the templates in standings and results. Not only it looks "neater" and "more appealing", but it is much easier to work with them. The main advantage is seen in league table where you have less things to calculate on your own, and it's easier to change positions, especially when you have 30+ league articles to edit in one day and you need as much spared time as you can get. Plus, when editing, templates use less rows and it's therefore easier to deal with them. I know that some users have trouble in loading the page with a lot of templates, but other than that, I don't see any other disandvantage. Maybe I'm totally wrong, but can someone here explain to me arguments why there is so much opposition regarding templates?
As for the colors, I think they are useful. Yes, now league tables look like the inside of a disco, but this many Europe spots offered and relegation spots being used need to be notified somehow. Especially because the text on the right hand side of the table is barely readable. Also, the tables really look "boring" and "empty" without the colors (just take a look at any English standings table during the punishment in late 80s), while I think that the spots should be more visible as they are very important in overall standings.
Anyway, this is just my honest opinion and I hope I will not be crucified for this. I would just like some more explaining regarding these two subjects discussed here and maybe I will see the other, negative side of that. SonjiCeli ( talk) 11:09, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
@Struway2, Number57 and everybody else that think the same: How are standard wikitables simpler to use than templates? As I stated earlier, the only thing that might be the problem (only to those with weaker Internet connection) is the space being used. With other "arguments" I cannot agree because:
a) templates are extremely simple to use. The biggest difference between the using of templates and wikitables can be seen in league standings. IMHO, wikitables are much harder to use because you need to calculate everything on your own and that takes more time. If you think the other way, please explain why exactly is using the templates "nightmare" for you.
b) once you have created club templates (and the huge number of them has been created so far), your work is done and all you have to do is to update.
c) it seems that font size can be modified after all, while the colors could easily be changed. We just need to reach a consensus which ones to use. SonjiCeli ( talk) 14:09, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
While we're going back to the drawing board for the league/results tables - any opinions on the other sections in general and the goalscorers in particular? --
Soccer-holic
I hear voices in my head...
11:26, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
This is my first foray into this discussion but I am one who is disappointed by the inflexibility of the templates which the so call "consensus" has embarked as the only method of display. Also it is causes wrong displays and conflicts with reality. As in the case with Ukrainian Premier League 2008-09 in the standings display the "Qualification and Relegation" is simply WRONG! - And the editors some of them admins are forcing Futurism ( WP:FUTURE) and biasness into the article and their insistance that the templates are "god". For example - Metalist, Vorskla and Metalurh D. have all qualified the Europa League but because the admins insist and using the template and incorrect designations rather than stating only the known fact as displayed in Correct Ukrainian Premier League Standings (as of May 26, 2009) there is bullyism and threats by the admins. Yet the displayed standings reflect only if Shakhtar Donest'k wins the Ukrainian Cup. Slightly biased which is against the neutrality that site is supposedly thrives on.
I appreciate your insight Soccer-holic, and SonjiCeli into trying to better the current schematic with the color schema which I thought worked well during the Ukrainian season but I contend that the Qualification and Relegation column IMO should only be used when in fact that is known fact with such designators as (Q) in the team column which now duplicate confuse not only those editting the standings but those who are trying understand why the (Q) is in the team column as well. Also if the standings are referenced do the these references sources also have these team designors (C). I don't see anything the Ukrainian PFL web site that, which is the official referenced source that has (C) or (R). Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 11:50, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I altered the color scheme a little bit in order to improve the accessibility issues. The full scheme can be seen here; an example implementation can be found here. Please comment. -- Soccer-holic I hear voices in my head... 00:26, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Is the second and third tier in the Israeli football league system really fully professional leagues? Rettetast ( talk) 22:38, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I have nominated a relevant article for deletion. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Moshe Abutbul. Rettetast ( talk) 01:06, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
While creating stub articles for Scotland internationals, I stumbled across the above category, which appears to be in a bit of a state. Maybe fair enough to have results by decade in that early period, but results by year seems a bit nonsensical when England were only playing one annual match against Scotland. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 08:49, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Right on today AC Milan announced departure of Carlo Ancelotti and his replacement with Leonardo Araujo. There is only one problem: Leonardo has no UEFA Pro coaching badges, so he can't serve as head coach in Italian Serie A (technically he could not do this even in Serie B, because he has no UEFA A badges as well, but only UEFA B). It is still unclear how the club will solve this, probably they will legally appoint either Filippo Galli or Mauro Tassotti as head coach, with Leonardo as assistant. In addition, Ancelotti's replacement will not take over before July 1, and there is still no official statement from the club. Since a lot of unexperienced users who are probably unaware of this are changing the head coach name in the infobox with Leonardo, can you please help me with this? Thank you. -- Angelo ( talk) 16:49, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Apparently he will be exempted from requiring a UEFA Pro license in his first season because he is a former FIFA World Cup Winner, but this will take validity only after he will take the UEFA A license on the 17th of July. This is at least what he said in the press conference. Something weird, actually, but apparently legal. -- Angelo ( talk) 21:00, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
I am currently having problems with Serie A 2008–09, as User:KyleRGiggs is continuously ( WP:POINT) adding flags in violation of MOS:FLAG despite multiple warnings. Can we discuss this here? I also invited him to open a discussion instead, but all I've received is this. Thanks in advance. -- Angelo ( talk) 18:28, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
The violated parts of MOS:FLAG are 'Do not solely decorate' (only two coaches in Italian Serie A were foreigners this year, and one season ago there were no foreigners at all), 'Do not use too many icons' (30 icons for 15 managerial changes, Serie B would be even worse) and 'Accompany flags with country names'. As already stated above, 'Do not emphasize nationality without good reason' might be a debatable one, personally I think emphasizing nationality for managers just makes no sense (all sports have an international nature, but Serie A is just the league of Italy) but it's merely my opinion. I have taken issue with Serie A only because I have Serie A and Serie B articles in my watchlist, whereas Premier League and La Liga (just citing the first two ones in my mind) are not. -- Angelo ( talk) 20:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
A shot in the dark, but I'd be incredibly grateful, not to mention impressed, if someone could find out who scored the other Blackpool goal in this game. Roy Calley's book on the history of the club incorrectly lists the score as 3–1 to Leeds City, with George Beare scoring the visitors' goal. As such, I can only list 49 of the club's 50 league goals in Blackpool F.C. season 1909–10. - Dudesleeper / Talk 21:24, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Gerry Wolstenholme has revised a lot of Blackpool stats after the publication of the Breedon book. Stanley Matthews went from 391 league appearances for Blackpool to 389 (Michael Joyce football players records first edition in 2002) Now there are only 380 matches left. P. E. Miller is now called P. C Miller (only 4 league matches in 1908-09) Cattivi ( talk) 12:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
WWW.allfootballers.com lists 3 Millers who played for Blackpool: P. Miller (a winger) in 1903-04 (3 games, 0 goals), P.C. Miller (full back) in 1908-09 (4 games, 0 goals) and Walter Miller (centre forward) (31 games, 14 goals in 1909-10 and 6 games, 1 goal in 1910-11). Walter also played for Sheffield Wednesday, West Ham United and Lincoln City, as well as for clubs in Scotland and Wales. Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 15:25, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, we need consensus on this matter once and for all. Here's the problem - if a player playing for a professional team in a fully-professional league makes one solitary appearance in a cup competition against semi-pro opposition, is said player then notable? I only ask because a couple of AfDs ( Eddie Ancalet and Dominic Merella spring to mind; the former played 19 mins while the latter played only 14, both in the FA Cup against non-league opposition) have resulted in the articles of two otherwise non-notable players being kept. So, even though voting is evil and wrong and all the rest of it, I thought we could have a wee vote and discussion anyways. Voting for 'players are not notable' means that you think that a player who plays for a pro team against semi-pro opposition is NOT worthy of an article; voting for 'players are notable' means that you think that a player who plays for a pro team against semi-pro opposition IS worthy of an article. Oh, and for anyone a bit slow out there, 'discussion' is where we can all 'discuss' the matter. Cheers! Giant Snowman 23:30, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
I think the answer depends on the context of the competition. If a semi-pro or even amateur club makes it into the finals of a major competition like the UEFA Champions League (didn't BATE Borisov do this recently?) and a pro club plays against them in those rounds, I think players from either team should be able to pass WP:ATHLETE. I'm not so sure that FA Cups (especially in the qualifying rounds) should do the same. Jogurney ( talk) 00:03, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
The answer, as I have said repeatedly, is to ignore things like WP:ATHLETE and whether one club or the other is fully-pro, but to rely on the general notability guidelines and require multiple, non-trivial coverage from independent reliable sources before any subject merits an article. - fchd ( talk) 06:33, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
In principle, I would say appearance against semi-pro opposition does not confer notability, but maybe there should be a threshhold of competition beyond which the semi-pro nature of opposition seeks to be a barrier to inclusion. If any of Nantes' 2000 French cup winning team made their debut in that final, it would be churlish to disqualify their article on the grounds that part time side Calais RUFC had had an extraordinary run to the final. Kevin McE ( talk) 07:08, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Given the luck of the draw of the FA Cup, it seems unfair to me that a player's appearance for a professional team against a semi-pro team would not be counted, when if the balls had been drawn out in a slightly different order, they could have well faced a pro team and be included. At least 48 League clubs & plenty of professional Conference clubs make up the 80 who take part in the First Round of the FA Cup - with by far the majority enjoying pro status, a few so semi-pro clubs in the mix does not in my view make appearances in it from that stage onwards non-notable. Qwghlm ( talk) 08:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
It all depends how literally people take WP:ATHLETE. Since games between pro and semi-pro are not that common, this means we are only dealing with players who have only played a single game or part-game at a pro club, or a couple at most. So the question is more "are players who have played a few minutes for a pro team notable"? Had I participated in the Merella AfD I'd have said delete. The sum total of coverage in the national press about his pro career appears to consist of "Defender Kevin Nicholson came to the home side's rescue when he blocked Dominic Merella's late shot in the last 10 minutes", which to me does not class as "significant coverage". Oldelpaso ( talk) 09:38, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
The slippery slope fallacy is a crap argument. Nevertheless I don't see this move advancing us anywhere.
I don't see how deleting a perfectly decent article on people like Eddie Anaclet makes Wikipedia a better place. FA Trophy winner, played Conference play-off semi-finals and has played enough games at this stage in his career to suggest he'll be playing in the Conference for some time yet, possibly making it to the Football League again if he happens to play for the right team. This shows that he is already considered notable enough by vandals to warrant their attention.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 10:02, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Surely it does matter who the opposition are in a Cup match? If the team had been drawn against better opposition the player probably wouldn't have played. There's usually a reason why the only game they've played is against lesser opponents- they weren't good enough to play against teams from their own league.
Having said that, a player that fails WP:ATHLETE but passes WP:N still should have an article- I'd say Eddie Anaclet is an example of that; there are multiple reliable sources in his article that are about him and not just passing mentions. Stu.W UK ( talk) 11:10, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
I think it dilutes the strength of WP:FOOTYN to say that somebody playing for a pro side against a semi-pro side in a cup competition is notable, but to hold the line that somebody playing for a pro club in a mixed league (eg conference national) isn't. You'd end up with articles for every player that plays for a fully pro club, irrespective of the competition. Then you would get someone else coming along saying what about X, he played in the same competition - surely he is notable? I think we need to hold the line where it is. Quite frequently a young player will be selected for a match against a semi-pro side in the cup precisely because it is weaker opposition that the pro side has been drawn against (ie they wouldn't have played if they had been drawn against a pro team).
Jmorrison230582 (
talk)
16:58, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Can someone of our admins put the hammer (or at least keep an eye) on this newly created user? He has mostly been vandalizing Scottish league and cup articles in order to praise his Rangers. A warning has been issued. Thanks, a tired Soccer-holic I hear voices in my head... 01:11, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi I've noticed that Brechin City's entry is badly vandalised and needs to be sorted out by some one who knows about the club. (3 June 2009) Biofuelsimon ( talk) 11:26, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
I could accept an article on an as-yet-unbuilt stadium being built by a Premier League team, but an as-yet-unbuilt stadium being built by a semi-professional team playing in the seventh tier of English football surely isn't notable? If it matters, note that, although the article claims the stadium will be ready for next season, in fact building work hasn't even started in earnest and the club will be groundsharing with Ashford Town F.C. (Kent) next season -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 20:25, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Is there a comprehensive list of fully-pro leagues? The Hack 02:28, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Although professional football was introduced in the Netherlands in 1954, the first fullpro club was DWS in 1965. In 1964 there were still salary caps. Minimum wage: 1500 gulden a year for 12 players. 1000 gulden for additional players. Maximum wage 10000 gulden a year for 6 players, 5000 gulden for additional players. There was a 20% bonus for players serving a club for more than 5 years. Many Eredivisie players in the 70's were still semipro. Cattivi ( talk) 09:28, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
The problem with a list such as this is that it overlooks the historical aspects. I expect that every (now) professional league, throughout the world, has evolved from being wholly/mainly amateur to fully-professional. There were amateur players in the Football League at least into the 1950s and possibly later. Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 16:05, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
At WP:FPL, a user keeps adding the top three tiers of the Israeli football system to the list citing a foreign source. The Israeli Premier League is fully-pro. However, it's highly unlikely that the second and third divisions are, but I'm at as loss as what to do/how to resolve the issue. -- Jimbo [online] 22:29, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Whilst hunting around for something to swing this argument one way or another, I found this forum post which says that Hapoel Acre (who at the time were in Liga Leumit) "has always been considered a semi-professional team". Not sure whether this is meant literally (i.e. they really are semi-pro) or whether it's just supporters of rival teams who feel this way, but it's a little something to start with. If they really are semi-pro though, the fact they've just been promoted to the top flight is also interesting... Bettia (bring on the trumpets!) 13:34, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't know what constitutes notability for football related articles, but I came across this article in Special:NewPages: Celtic FC Result 10/08/2008. I've left it with a plain notability tag, but maybe it qualifies for speedy delete.
Also, the same user created Celtic F.C. season 2008–09. I would strike me as something that might already exist, or fit in somewhere else, or be called something else ... but like the above, I don't know. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid ( coṁrá) 22:10, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Folks. Quick note, we've got a football-related featured list (a pretty important one!) which has been nominated for demotion from its featured status. For those who are interested in helping out, see the criteria (which have been recently and quite significantly reworked) and then get stuck in. Cheers. The Rambling Man ( talk) 12:42, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
What do people think of my solution of including the Proactive agency/Paul Stretford trial info in the article? There's been a lot of back and forth on this but I still think it doesn't warrant a great deal of attention. I'd appreciate other's thoughts. Sillyfolkboy ( talk) ( edits) WIKIPROJECT ATHLETICS NEEDS YOU! 14:57, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Listed in the Port Vale F.C. players category I went to expand it. Only when I went to write in the details of his career there I discovered hes not in any of my books. Can anyone do some research and see if and when he signed for Vale and what happened? In the area of 1902 apparently.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 19:14, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
According to both Joyce and Matthews, Len Evans, Wales international goalkeeper, went somewhere called Svenborg in 1935 after finishing at Birmingham and before becoming trainer at Blackburn. Can anyone possibly tell me where Svenborg is, assuming that's the right spelling, and whether Mr Evans was playing or coaching or what he was doing there? thanks, Struway2 ( talk) 19:56, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Are Confederation Cup squad templates like this actually useful for Wikipedia? Thoughts? -- Angelo ( talk) 00:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Two of the footballers named Andy Aitken have been moved to (born xxxx) rather than (footballer born xxxx). Could an admin please revert these moves? Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 04:54, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
This needs a bit of sorting in the names, as they are unnecessarily long. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 10:59, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Regarding the use of flags in international match articles (e.g. 2006 FIFA World Cup Final), we have the small flag icons in the infobox and in the match details section, fair enough. But do we really need the large flags above the team line-ups as well? These are disproportionately large, unnecessary and patronise the reader. Does anyone have any objections to me removing these? -- Jameboy ( talk) 12:43, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
'Jeroentje is door hem neer geschopt. hij wou hem toen uitkappen maar jeroentje gaf de bal voor. Rhoon heeft toen met 7-1 gewonnen'
I'm re-writing the Nico Jalink article. Sadly it seems to have been deleted from the Dutch Wikipedia for that reason. Can anyone translate that for me as I am curious to know why?-- EchetusXe ( talk) 15:39, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi all, I've been recently dealing with a disputed inclusion of a Pavarotti and Modena FC section within Modena F.C. by an anonymous user. Since the user seems to be definitely WP:POINTing his arguments against evidence, I would appreciate if you might join Talk:Modena F.C. and discuss the issue there. -- Angelo ( talk) 18:38, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Corry Evans made his full debut for Northern Ireland tonight against Italy, however he is yet to play in a competitive match for Man Utd, so is he now notable or as he plays for Man Utd does he still not qualify? Jimmy Skitz's Answer Machine 19:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Scott P. Brown (English footballer) Scott Brown (English footballer)
Both decided to go and play for Bristol City in 2004 and 2005 and both played for Cheltenham Town between 2007 and 2009.
Now one of them decided to get arrested in October 2005, it would be pretty embarrassing on our part to label the wrong one as the brawler.
However I believe its my guy (no middle name) based on the fact that in 2006 the BBC was still calling the three guys teammates despite P.Brown having moved on to Cheltenham by then. Also here is the face of the convicts, here is P Brown. White guys all look the same to me, but I'm pretty sure that the goalkeeper is not one of those 3 pictured.
I'm confident I have reported the correct Scott Brown as the one arrested, but with the chances of a cock-up so obvious I decided it best if I got confirmation here.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 22:57, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
I would appreciate a third opinion on Talk:CA Marbella#Famous players. Rettetast ( talk) 12:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Based on stats from Jack Rollin's excellent book Soccer at War: 1939 - 45, I've compiled a list of all of Manchester United's guest players from during the Second World War. However, they were all without full names – only initials – and while I was able to match a few articles to some of the names (thanks to anyone who categorised articles into Category:Manchester United F.C. wartime guest players), I was wondering if anyone here would be able to help identify a few more names. If you recognise a name, feel free to fill in the full name, along with any common nickname(s), and preferably link to the player's article if he has one. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. – Pee Jay 22:31, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Over at Talk:Liverpool 0–2 Arsenal (26 May 1989) there is a debate over the form of article titles for matches which are notable, but do not have a formal title such as 2006 FIFA World Cup Final or a well-established nickname such as Agony of Doha. There doesn't seem to be a consistent name form - looking over the category for matches, it varies considerably, e.g.:
Including team names, and years, seem fairly elementary and non-controversial. Some additional thoughts:
So I propose article titles of the format Team A x–y Team B (year), with an optional further disambiguation to Team A x-y Team B (date) if the year and scoreline aren't sufficient on their own. Others' thoughts are welcome... Qwghlm ( talk) 11:27, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
I think it depends on what makes the match notable notable. Germany 1-5 England was notable because of the scoreline. England v Scotland (1872) is notable because of the year in which it was played.
I think it should be team a v team b (year) or team a ?-? team b (year) as the standard.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 17:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
The more I think about this, the more I think standardising a convention is a bad idea. Matches notable for their score need the score in their title. Others do not. Some need disambiguation, using year will be normal, but the Eng / Arg example above is a good case of where that would be insufficient. I think that the standardisation should go as far as to set parameters to be chosen from - dates, if used, go at the end in brackets. Versus, if used, should be a simple "v". Which dash to use in scorelines. Etc. -- Dweller ( talk) 15:40, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, I missed that this debate was going on. As the person who brought up the issue on the Liverpool-Arsenal page, my complaint is simply about using titles that might be used in conversation. I have trouble imagining someone saying "Did you see Liverpool 0–2 Arsenal (26 May 1989) last night?" I do believe someone might sound more natural saying "Did you see the 1989 Liverpool-Arsenal match last night?" That's why I suggested the change. For an across-the-pond example, see 2007 New England Patriots-New York Giants game, which is the game in which the Patriots completed their record-setting 16-0 season. I think you can overindicate the content of an article in the title, when all you need is a pointer to what it's about. See also my comment on Talk:Luton Town 1–0 Millwall (13 March 1985).-- Mike Selinker ( talk) 14:01, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
This may sound strange, but I´m really having a hard time to find the complete squad lists of the Yugoslav First League teams from 1991 until 2000. The Playerhistory website is incomplete. Can anyone help me? FkpCascais ( talk) 19:08, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't get it...... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 08:57, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
This Scottish player has recently died, but as far as I can see, he's only played in the semi-pro Scottish second & third divisions...can anyone prove his notability? Cheers, Giant Snowman 11:44, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
This isn't going anywhere fast. Before I give in and take it to AfD, anyone fancy having a go at turning into a real article? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:55, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Doesn't look like a notable player, and I thought you people might be able to sort it more quickly than I can. Thanks, or get back to me if I need to AfD it myself, or whatever. Itsmejudith ( talk) 20:36, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
I've come across this article about an amateur league in Ireland, which links to pages about all of its Senior teams, and many of its lesser teams. The linked articles say nothing more than that the team is a member of the LSL. Does Wikipedia really need articles on every amateur football league and team? WikiDan61 ChatMe! ReadMe!! 12:19, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
As far as I was aware, Gordon Ramsay was only ever a youth player at Rangers...however, an article written by him in 2002 claims that he made two first-team appearances, saying "I played two first-team games, against St Johnstone and Morton. Both away and both shit in the sense that I played 20 minutes and 10 minutes." Can anyone verify this? Cheers, Giant Snowman 12:31, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
I noticed a box in need of conversion, Template:1986 FIFA World Cup, and I'm having trouble figuring out the markup to prevent nested boxes from being broken. Any assistance would be appreciated, especially because I would then be able to make these edits properly on other templates. Thanks. JohnnyPolo24 ( talk) 14:25, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
A copuple of players – Ferenc Nyers and Nicolae Simatoc are just two that spring to mind – played for a Hungarian club called Hungaria FbC Roma in the early 1950s. Seeing as these players also played at the top-levels of France and Spain respectively, I presume Hungaria FbC Roma was/is a notable club. Does anyone know if Hungaria FbC Roma is the correct naming convention, and if not, what is? And does anyone have any further details on the club? Cheers, Giant Snowman 15:03, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi,
Would it be possible to have the "Senior club appearances and goals counted for the domestic league only" message disabled for a specific player? In Brazil (and I bet in other countries, too) we usually count all goals a player has scored for a given team in every *official* match, regardless of whether it was for the local state league, one of the many national domestic leagues (there's no such thing as "the" domestic league in Brazil), or international leagues (Copa Libertadores, for instance).
What is happening right now is that .br users are simply ignoring that message -- and providing bad information to our readers. I'd say the vast majority of the pages concerning Brazilian football players are wrong in that regard.
Thank you for your attention.
Pedrovsky ( talk) 17:58, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Robin van der Laan. Does anyone know whether I am supposed to write: "Van der Laan..." or "van der Laan..." when starting a sentence with his name? Do I just write "Laan...".
Help pl0x.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 18:08, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
In the middle of a sentence it's not capitalised, except when it's someone from Belgium. Cattivi ( talk) 10:17, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Does article Trimi Makolli meet the requirement for WP:CSD acording to A7?
The player is not part of the senior squad, hes youth squad player, have not played any matches for the club more then a few friendly in the 2009 pre-season. --> Halmstad, Charla to moi 18:39, 11 June 2009 ( UTC)
Could somebody keep an eye on the Michael Husbands article? I don't know anything about him, but there have been a lot of suspicious edits recently, I'm not sure if the edits are correct or not (other than the unsourced speculation), so if my reverts are wrong, then please revert me, otherwise, it needs to be watched. Who then was a gentleman? ( talk) 18:46, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
"(i have erased false information about michael husbands)". I can't understand this, all of the information in the article is fully supported by articles from the BBC. Seems as though this individual wants to believe that Husbands never left Vale Park for some reason.-- EchetusXe ( talk) 13:30, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
As you can see, DragoLink08 has changed a couple of "Football in <country>" templates to a "more colorful" layout, similar to those of the national team templates. Revert or not revert? -- Soccer-holic I hear voices in my head... 10:58, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Why do we use different colours anyway. Wouldn't it be better to use the standard template colour on all footy templates? Are there any gain other than the bleeding eyesore at the bottom on thousands of articles? Rettetast ( talk) 16:15, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
In the Swansea City vs AS Monaco tie in European Cup Winners' Cup 1991–92, Swansea has the Welsh flag whereas Monaco has the French flag (not the Monaco flag). Is this an inconsistency and which should be changed, if either? -- Jameboy ( talk) 22:50, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Is this article worth it? Seeing as it is a list of lower-league players, I reckon the vast majority will fail notability, meaning we have what is basically a list of non-notable footballers... Giant Snowman 00:39, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
There exists Joe Smith (footballer born 1889), England international, maker of 612 Football League appearances and scorer of 380 goals, with a long managerial career, already dabbed by birth year because of Joe Smith (footballer born 1890), England international and maker of 482 Football League appearances, but clearly the primary target for people looking up Joe Smiths born in 1889. Does anyone have any sensible suggestions as to what I should I name an article on a rather less prominent Joe Smith, English footballer born 1889, who played 8 league games before being killed in action in the First World War? cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 09:27, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
A. Falcao ( talk · contribs) insists on removing club categories from the articles of youth players, even though I have directed him to previous consenus that such categories should be kept. I am about to approach my 3RR limit, please could someone else have a polite word with him? Cheers, Giant Snowman 13:46, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
For information, there was a more recent discussion of this matter at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 31#Football player categories, which had input from both sides of the argument, but finished off with a pertinent comment, that "As is common on this discussion page, it's quite possible for us to resolve this simply by looking beyond our own WikiProject guidelines and at the general ones - if a player is tied to a club by multiple reliable secondary sources, he should be in their category. If not, then not." cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 14:15, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Should Baichung Bhutia be moved to Bhaichung Bhutia? I requested a move but so far no one has agreed or disagreed with me. Spiderone ( talk) 15:49, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong with my implementation of Template:Infobox football tournament season in FA Cup 2007–08? I can't get the image to show. Not sure if it's me or a template issue. -- Jameboy ( talk) 20:13, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Can an admin please re-create the above article? The player is making his debut for FC Dallas right now. Source is here: http://web.mlsnet.com/scoreboard/game.jsp?match=06132009_HOUDAL. Thanks! -- JonBroxton ( talk) 00:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone know if it is fully-pro? -- Jimbo [online] 07:47, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I think this requires admin attention. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 10:08, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Could anyone with a copy of Michael Joyce's "Football League Players' Records 1888 - 1939" please provide me with a record of Tom Wilcox's career? The article currently lists him as having played for Huddersfield Town from 1910 to 1911, but my book of Manchester United players lists him as having played for Carlisle from 1909 to 1912! Any help? – Pee Jay 15:05, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
The above article is being re-assessed as part of the GA Sweeps project The re-assessment has been placed on hold. It hasn't failed because it's basically a good article, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass; otherwise it will fail. See 1930 FIFA World Cup for things needing to be addressed. Jezhotwells ( talk) 20:18, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't know if anyone else here has come across the above-mentioned user, but he seems to have taken to adding "diaries" to the Manchester United season articles. Are these encyclopaedic? – Pee Jay 22:50, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Can someone take a look at The_Football_League_2008–09#League_Two_3 and Football_League_Two_2008–09#Top_scorers. Do u really count the goals from regular season + promotion playoffs (+ FA Cup (in one case))? Simeon Jackson scored 17 goals during the season, 3 in playoffs, 1 in FA Cup and 1 for Canada, so perhaps we can increase it to 22? ;-) -- Ureinwohner ( talk) 23:14, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
So yeah, another case of me going off to bring an article up to scratch only for me to find no evidence of the player actually playing for Port Vale. Can someone please do a little check to see if what is there already is accurate (and that he was indeed signed to Vale)?-- EchetusXe ( talk) 00:40, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Requesting comments at Talk:Football#Disambig for a proposed rework of Football. Regards, jnestorius( talk) 12:13, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Would members of your project please weigh in at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Albert Roca Puyol. Who then was a gentleman? ( talk) 17:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
I would like to invite discussion on the talk page of Kit (association football). The talk surrounds Image congestion on the page, input is required for this is a Featured Article.-- Lucy-marie ( talk) 21:26, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
I am not happy with Tommy Fraser having this fact at his article unreferenced: [Fraser is the grandson of "Mad" Frankie Fraser, a former member of the Richardson Gang]
It says as much on Frankie Fraser's article but can anyone find a reference?-- EchetusXe ( talk) 22:01, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
9 Albanian players have been grouped for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Egland Haxho. If you agree with me that some (if not all) should be saved then can you assist in adding information and references to the articles so that hopefully they can be kept. I will try and concentrate on Egland Haxho and Arbër Abilaliaj. Hope you can assist. Eldumpo ( talk) 07:25, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Where are people getting squad info from for squad templates? the Wolves one is somewhat different to the names and numbers on the official website. I realise the old season is finishing and there will be changes for the new season, but surely guessing at names without back-up amounts to WP:OR. --ClubOranje T 11:36, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Those of you who edit non-league football articles will undoubtedly have used Tony Kempster's website (www.tonykempster.co.uk) to look for information, since it is invaluable for making sense of the lower reaches of the pyramid. Sadly, he has lost his battle with liver cancer, and passed away last night. Oldelpaso ( talk) 13:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Can someone watch the Sergio Aguero page because it's being vandalised constantly. Spiderone ( talk) 17:01, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm having trouble with a guy who keeps adding guff about how Ince spent more than any Blackburn manager in the last five seasons. To me, it seems unnecessarily defamatory about Ince and completely POV, but this guy just won't listen. Help pls! – Pee Jay 19:28, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd look at solving it myself, but I'm terrible with template coding. One of the Spanish football templates (I'm not sure which one, but it's one of the two that I just used on Regional Preferente de Ceuta) puts a link to the Hebrew version of the template as an article link. It has happened on more than one article I've recently used it on. Does anyone who is good with templates know how to remove this thing? I think it's trying to wikilink the templates together, but instead it just creates wikilinks from all articles on which the template is used to that template on the Hebrew Wikipiedia. I know these probably aren't exactly high traffic articles that will create widespread problems for a lot of people, but I'm at a loss of how to fix it myself. matt91486 ( talk) 19:44, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Is it just me or is this template a bit unnecessary? The image is a bit unruly, especially when a player has scored more than one goal in a game. I think it would be much more appropriate to just have the goal times with a number in brackets to indicate how many goals the player scored (if more than one). – Pee Jay 22:14, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
{{
goal|22|44|o.g.|90+2|pen.}}
would give
22', 44' (
o.g.), 90+2' (
pen.) - how does that sound?
Chris Cunningham (not at work) -
talk
15:21, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
On what grounds is an icon of a ball representative of a goal? The ball is as relevant to a tackle, throw-in or goal kick as it is to scoring a goal. Kevin McE ( talk) 16:27, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Can't see anything wrong with how things are done at the moment. Is this really the most important thing some people have to worry about? Darryl.matheson ( talk) 23:33, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
ClubOranje 22', 67', 90+2' Yay, I scored a hat-trick --ClubOranje T 06:17, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Expanded to support up to five goals, per the above discussion. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 07:48, 18 June 2009 (UTC)