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Hello, I was wondering how British referees should be formatted at the Olympic Games. Typically, referees are listed in tournament articles with their name and national association, for example " Néstor Pitana ( Argentina)" at the 2018 World Cup. However, at the Olympics the United Kingdom as a whole are represented as Great Britain. Should referees from England/Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland be listed with "Great Britain" or their respective national association? To add to this, the English Football Association is regarded as the national governing body of football within the British Olympic Association. Here are some possible options, using Scottish referee Hugh Dallas from 1996 as an example:
[[Hugh Dallas]] ([[Scottish Football Association|Great Britain]])
→
Hugh Dallas (
Great Britain)[[Hugh Dallas]] ([[The Football Association|Great Britain]])
→
Hugh Dallas (
Great Britain)[[Hugh Dallas]] ([[Scottish Football Association|Scotland]])
→
Hugh Dallas (
Scotland)Which of these methods should be used? S.A. Julio ( talk) 08:53, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
[[Hugh Dallas]] ([[Scottish Football Association|Great Britain]])
falls foul of
WP:SURPRISE in my opinion, as a British football team isn't mentioned there. Link to British Olympic team would be better- although they work for the FA/SFA, they're presumably employed as British referees for the Olympics.
Joseph
2302 (
talk) 09:42, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
If anyone sees more similar edit warring from two IP addresses again, use a tougher protection duration than the 7 days which was the previous duration. Recent edits to the page are nothing but adding/taking away 11 bytes off the page. Iggy ( Swan) ( Contribs) 21:34, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
https://instagram.com/churchillbrothersfcgoa?igshid=18aiagmc6lp0z
Needs updatescto latest version also — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.142.139.21 ( talk) 22:56, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
https://www.instagram.com/p/CL_eC6HjI1f/?igshid=s5zvt4zbtbm9 Urgent edits needed 🙏 even users reverting occured — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.142.139.21 ( talk) 22:38, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi, There was a discussion earlier regarding the deletion of a player wiki profile named Asrar Rehbar who plays in the I-League 2nd Division for Bangalore United. The reason given was that I-League 2nd Division isn't included in the list of Professional Leagues. I would like to argue here that the I-League 2nd Division fulfils all the criteria of a professional league and the winner qualifies for the I-League. Players are on a long term contract earning basic income required in India. On the wiki page of I-League 2nd Division as well it's mentioned that it is a Professional League. It has been confirmed by the All India Football Federation as well. Could verify the same and add the league to the list so that the article doesn’t need to be deleted. Also not forgetting that Sevilla FC from La Liga have an exclusive partnership Tie-Up with Bangalore United who play in the I-League 2nd Division. Attaching the press release from Sevilla FC : [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballbrain01 ( talk • contribs) 17:15, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Virtually all articles written by User:Almgerdeu do not appear to be notable (and the writing quality does not typically live up to Wikipedia standards). Many articles appear to be about obscure referees ( Example 1 Example 2 Example 3). Several of the user's created articles have already been removed. I have limited knowledge on the topic of association football so I would appreciate if someone could review and take appropriate action if necessary. Kstern ( talk) 13:56, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
A large number of this editor's articles have been deleted as non-notable. Giant Snowman 17:24, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
I've come across Thorsten Tönnies. He played 7 minuets for Werder Bremen's reserve team at 3rd tier level in 2010 and has spent the rest of his career playing in the 4th and 5th tiers of German football so far. Does 7 minuets for a reserve club 10 years ago really make him pass WP:FOOTY? REDMAN 2019 ( talk) 18:30, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
There's a situation at Pelé (discussion here) but I can't make sense of what the other user is trying to say. Any ideas? – Pee Jay 12:42, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello. When updating a player timestamp for an appearance that was a couple of days prior, do we put the day of the last match played or simply five tildes? Thanks. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 14:17, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
use five tildes (~~~~~) to generate the current date/time in dmy format, or {{subst:mdytime}} for mdy format.. Cheers, Gricehead ( talk) 14:23, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
In {{ Infobox football league season}} there're 4 parameters:
|longest wins=
|longest unbeaten=
|longest winless=
|longest losses=
Are these values calculated based on by date or by round? If a game is postponed, it can lead to a different result depending on whether we count by date (actual date) or by round round (original date). -- Sb008 ( talk) 23:46, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
We also have {{ #invoke:Sports rbr table|function}} which is called rbr (by round) and not rbd (by date). So, the parameters in the infobox and table produced by the module could conflict, if we use by date for the infobox parameters. -- Sb008 ( talk) 01:18, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Agreed. 100% it's by date order. RedPatchBoy ( talk) 12:33, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Are there independent reliable sources providing this information? Eldumpo ( talk) 20:55, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Can you please advise on this issue? -- Tanonero (msg) 23:36, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Overcategorization#Sportspeople by event to increase the wording of WP:PERFCAT to include sportspeople by event (examples include Category:FIFA World Cup-winning players and Category:Summer Olympics medalists by year). If anyone has an interest in the discussion it can be found at the link above. Rikster2 ( talk) 20:41, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
Protection requested please, it should probably be obvious why, but please check the history if in any doubt. There are other pages in the same boat but this seems to be the worst AFAIK. Suggest keeping it beyond the next Old Firm game on 21/03, there's always drunken 'banter' spikes at that point. Thanks. Crowsus ( talk) 00:16, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi. I would like that this article be a FL. It would be possible if this article have the data about the attendance are present. Unfortunately it is not possible. What can I do? Dr Salvus ( talk) 13:52, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
I've been going through some of the 6,000+ unassessed football articles to help clear some of the backlog and I'm not sure if Cyril Dunning is really notable. I've PROD-ed a couple of other articles already but because of this guy's brief amateur international career there might be something there. I wonder though if he falls foul of WP:BLP1E as the most notable thing about him is that he scored a hattrick in Germany's biggest ever defeat. I can't find any evidence that he ever played for Norwich City either but I'd be grateful to anyone with any offline sources that could verify that. Stevie fae Scotland ( talk) 12:12, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Dunning played 43 times for the club in the Southern League, scoring 25 goals. He also played 5 times for them in the "United League", which I've never heard of(!), once without scoring in the "N & S League" (ditto) and once, again without scoring, in the FA Cup. These stats in my 1986 edition of Canary Citizens, page 315. I tracked down that FA Cup match, in case it helped you. It's on page 248 of the same book. It was a 1st round tie on 1/5/1909 v Reading, which was played at Stamford Bridge, in front of a crowd of 15,732. Norwich eventually won that tie in a second replay at Villa Park, beat Liverpool in the next round, before being knocked out by Bristol City in the third. The match he played in is actually already mentioned in Wikipedia, though not referenced. It's in our article on The Nest: "An FA Cup tie against Reading later in the year had to be switched to a neutral venue when City's opponents complained that the Nest pitch was not big enough – but the club soon settled into their new home and it was not long before five figure crowds were packing into the compact little ground." I think playing in the first round proper of the FA Cup normally qualifies for our notability criteria, but the citations mentioned above would be far better. -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 23:11, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
<- Robby.is.on I'd rather not do any more if you guys think the article should be deleted. What's the consensus? I can't see the other references SportingFlyer mentioned. -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 11:26, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
He played cricket in the Minor Counties Championship for Norfolk for several years, according to his CricketArchive profile, which also gives a list of other football clubs he played for. It's a paywalled site, but if you hit Escape quickly enough when the page starts to load and before the subscribe banner covers it up again, it will remain visible. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 12:35, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
I've updated his article. Struway, Joseph2302, we have a discrepancy in sources over the exact date of death. -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned!
Nice collaborative work, everyone. -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 13:45, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Does he pass WP:FOOTY? Having had a look at where he's played, I cant see any evidence of him having played in a WP:FPL, but I thought I'd check it here before starting an AfD. Microwave Anarchist ( talk) 22:14, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
In a move discussion,
Evergreen FC has been proposed for
merging into
Northern Virginia Royals. If interested, please participate in
the related move discussion. Thank you.
Rotideypoc41352 (
talk ·
contribs) 12:59, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi all, sorry to open another can of worms about seasons. Are articles like 2020 Chicago State Cougars men's soccer team within the seasons criteria? I'm aware that WP:NSEASONS says A national championship season at the top collegiate level is generally notable. but my concern is that these seasons don't get enough independent and significant coverage to meet WP:GNG. What's people's opinions on this? Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 14:09, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
@ Smartyllama:, @ Quidster4040:, @ Ajax.amsterdam.fan: do you have access to any independent, reliable sources providing in-depth coverage of 2020 Chicago State Cougars men's soccer team of the standard that would pass WP:GNG? Thanks. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:11, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Consensus in the past on these types of team season articles is that they are given a presumption of notability if they qualify for the NCAA Division I Men's Soccer Tournament, because those teams tend to gain a higher level of coverage for qualifying for the national tournament, especially if they reach the College Cup. Sometimes articles get created prematurely. I think Chicago State is probably one of those articles. Jay eyem ( talk) 16:48, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi all,
I think we need to have some discussion around NSEASONS, given the current differences of opinion at AfDs like Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008–09 Cambridge United F.C. season. As far as I can see it, the situation is that some editors' view is broadly that seasons in fully pro leagues are notable and seasons in non-fully pro leagues are not "per NSEASONS". Note that NSEASONS just says "Articles can be created on individual seasons of teams in top professional leagues, as these articles almost always meet the notability requirements", which could be taken to imply that seasons in non-fully pro leagues can also be created if they meet "the notability requirements" (unspecified, but would presumably be GNG). So the question is - what type of coverage is needed for a season to get over that line? Some of the articles currently up for debate have dozens of refs to BBC Sport, etc, but they tend to be dismissed as routine news. So are we looking for in-depth coverage of the season in its entirety? How many seasons even at the pro level would pass that bar? Has (picking a completely random example) 2003–04 Stockport County F.C. season been the subject of in-depth coverage as a whole? Yet that would probably get a "per NSEASONS" free pass. Also, would that requirement not suggest that almost no articles could be created on seasons still in progress?
Apologies if the above is a bit "stream of consciousness" but I think it's definitely a subject that needs some discussion, as there are clearly definite differences of opinion....... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 11:45, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
For football, WP:NSEASONS is met when a team's season has been consistently covered by reliable secondary sources per WP:GNG. This includes reporting on match reports, routine transactions, and any events that occurred over the course of the season.is that most non-league teams, certainly down to level 8 or 9, would have this level of coverage in their local media. We therefore need to have a realistic cutoff, and matching the FPL cutoff seems the most sensible place to draw the line IMO. Number 5 7 23:01, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
NSEASONS is just a guidance and shouldn't be used as an argument to ever supersede GNG, that's just wrong voting that way in my opinion. As for the National League, surprisingly enough, even know it's semi-professional, it near operates fully professional, as anyone of those clubs, even the smallest of chances get promoted to League Two have to put all players on club contracts. I don't know about others, but I feel that NSEASONS should extend into the National League and that's the cut off, period. Govvy ( talk) 10:51, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
NSEASONS is a waste of time and appears to just create ambiguity and inconsistency with site-wide policy like WP:GNG. Chris was generous selecting a Stockport season, I offered 1958–59 Liverpool F.C. season as a non-notable season (per NSEASONS) which seems frankly bonkers. But I also find it strange that we're expecting news outside "transfers and matches" because that would mean most seasons for most teams would be non-notable. I also find it strange that some people think that you can't write an NSEASONS-compliant article using prose about matches and transfers, that's altogether possible. In summary, NSEASONS really provides nothing helpful at all, especially not in the context of the various deletion discussions I've seen it used in as it does not preclude the creation pretty much any season article. The Rambling Man ( Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:19, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
Some clubs, such as Juventus F.C. and FC Bayern Munich, don't have the star(s) on their logo, whereas others, like FC Dynamo Kyiv and Galatasaray S.K., do. Should we remove the stars from the latter, or add them to the former? Nehme 1499 18:59, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
I would just remove stars from logos if the stars indicate titles won, and can potentially change the next year(s) with a title win. Nehme 1499 16:27, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
What are the thoughts on the reliability of https://thepeoplesperson.com/ and https://www.thesportsman.com/? SK2242 ( talk) 10:30, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
Any admin around who would like to take a look at the contributions of User:Carlão Junigan Magalhães? Spotted on my watchlist changing the infobox of Jairinho to include spells at Flamengo and Real Madrid, despite the sourced career history in the prose. Further investigation found all his contributions from 5 March to today have done similar things on 13 player articles. An earlier editing spree between 19 January and 8 February did the same to 8 other player articles, but may well have been completely reverted by now as none of these edits are still current. User has been welcomed but not warned, prior to my uw-2 for Jairinho. Thanks in advance, Gricehead ( talk) 09:28, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
After further research to check sources, I have reverted all edits in the period 5 March to 15 March, but would still invite an admin to consider whether further action is required. Gricehead ( talk) 10:32, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
The bracket has been added into the page during this phase of the competition (round of 16, 2legs). In recent years, I don't remember adding it during this phase. It should be added only once, only after the quarter final draw, in which all pairings are established 100%. Island92 ( talk) 12:17, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
If no one comes up with a valid argument, I will re-add the bracket and report who ever removes it, for removing valid and accurate information without a good reason (aka vandalism). -- Sb008 ( talk) 22:37, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
@ Sb008: As far as I understand, the problem that users have with adding the bracket currently is that it does not reflect the future necessarily correctly, and only after the quarter-final draw do we know the full pathway. Currently (before the draw), you don't know which winners will face-off and therefore listing it now as a bracket can lead readers to think that it is the set path. For example, in this version, a reader might think that PSG will play Liverpool in the quarter-final and Porto will play Dortmund. -- SuperJew ( talk) 14:07, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
Please help me to improve this page. I would like that this page is a FL DrSalvus ( talk) 22:47, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
A new schedule was released today. All the scheduled matches must be revised.-- Island92 ( talk) 22:59, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi, i found this graph on the Real Sociedad article. If we have a season to season section on spanish clubs, I think it is unnecessary information, do you?. Thanks. Pincheira22 ( talk) 13:18, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
Protecting Ché Adams till the novelty of his Scottish call-up wears off would be much appreciated. thanks, Struway2 ( talk) 14:07, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi all, there's a bit of a discrepancy in the article names. Which do we think is correct? For example, for Liverpool, we have Liverpool 4–0 Barcelona, Liverpool 0–2 Arsenal (26 May 1989), Liverpool 9–0 Crystal Palace (1989) and Liverpool 11–0 Strømsgodset where the full name of the club is not in the title (i.e. the 'F.C.' is omitted) but then we have AFC Ajax 5–1 Liverpool F.C. (1966), Liverpool F.C. 1–2 Grimsby Town F.C. (2001) and Liverpool F.C. 4–3 Newcastle United F.C. (1996) with the full club names in the article title. Which is correct? Are they both correct potentially? Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 12:00, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
I agree with the need for consistency. To unpack what the right approach is, I'd quite like to understand why we wouldn't go with the simplest option, without FC (etc). Is the concern that some team names are also those of cities/regions?
Another question: how do other sports handle this? Cheers, -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 12:51, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
I think the title of the club as per what we use on Wikipedia should be used in these titles. It is crazy to use different ways of referring to the same entity in our article titles across the encyclopedia. As for disambiguation, it should be minimised. I can't see a good reason for the full date of the Liverpool/Arsenal match unless there was another LFC 0-2 AFC match in May 1989. The "year" can be helpful in most cases for some immediate context, but isn't essential in almost every single case as the scoreline itself is a disambiguator for most such articles. The Rambling Man ( Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:14, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
I am under the process of reviewing Draft:List of top international women's football goal scorers by country which has been submitted at AFC. The article seems fine, although some minor issues are there. The list is incomplete and needs a few more citations. I would like to accept this. If accepted, this will become an important football article like the List of top international men's football goal scorers by country. With these minor issues, I'm little bit confused here. Im also a new AFC reviewer. So I'm asking for expertise suggestions? Please dont forget to ping me while replying. Kichu🐘 Need any help? 11:25, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello. Abdou Diallo just got his first call-up for Senegal. He was born in France, has lived in France his whole pre-professional life, and has only played for France youth teams until now. Should we wait until he makes an official appearance for Senegal to change anything? And if we do change anything, what nationality should he be in the opening paragraph? French-Senegalese, Senegalese, or French? I would lean on French-Senegalese. I believe there was a similar discussion for John Brooks of Germany/USA? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 15:18, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
While not passing NFOOTY, she does seem to be notable enough to have a Wikipedia page. However, the current state of the article reads like a fan page, or a CV, rather than an encyclopedic page. I've already cleaned it up a bit, can someone else help out? Thanks, Nehme 1499 17:18, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Which are the Notability criterias of players in Italy? DrSalvus ( talk) 20:05, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Please help me to improve the page DrSalvus ( talk) 19:00, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
...what do the gathered luminaries make of List of women's Olympic football tournament own goals, which seems to be a part of an obscure series of lists of own goals in major tournaments? This particular one is sourced entirely to FIFA, which suggests it lacks general notability.
Others are:
Cheers, Gricehead ( talk) 21:06, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Is it really that notable and deserving of it's own article? Govvy ( talk) 14:09, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Can someone help me out by taking a look at Francisco Wagsley please, and seeing if you can reproduce a bug?
For me, in my default configuration (Legacy Vector), I can't click on the links for Al-Wehdat or Al-Jahra SC, but I think that's just a symptom. Also, select and copy of the infobox flips to include the entire article when I go past these same rows (sorry, this action is hard to describe).
Interestingly, if I switch skin, the issue (mostly) persists, but sometimes on different rows of the infobox. Similarly, if I go through old revisions, it's sometimes different rows of the infobox affected.
Problem seems to have been introduced in [12] with the introduction of the Romanian language reference as, for me, at that point the São Luiz row of the infobox becomes unclickable.
I initially thought it was due to the right-to-left arabic script in the second reference introduced in that diff, but it seems not.
Edit to add - I can't reproduce this by pulling the infobox and reflist out to a separate sandbox page, either.
Thanks in advance, Gricehead ( talk) 12:05, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi project, Amakuru and I are currently pushing ahead with trying to get Sutton United 2–1 Coventry City (1989) to featured status, and there's a very decent comment that says the current kit displayed there isn't correct. Indeed, it needs to be the half-and-half blue shirt as shown in this grainy video. Can anyone here help create this please? The Rambling Man ( Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 20:30, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Is this page notable? DrSalvus ( talk) 21:32, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
I raised this in January. Basically his games as a manager were omitted from his managerial statistic for games he was in hospital with Covid. This was at odds with Soccerbase who included these games in his figures. The limited consensus at the time was to include them. I changed Cotterill’s figures to reflect this. Eduditio1990 has reverted this on the basis that if sources confirm a manager was elsewhere then those games should be omitted from their tally. Personally I’d go with Soccerbase but any comments on this welcomed.-- Egghead06 ( talk) 16:05, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Just to note the editor's username is Eruditio1990 with an "r", so they won't have got pinged by the misspelt mentions above. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 17:47, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Steve Cotterill was the Shrewsbury Town manager at the time of the matches. His location at the time of those matches is not relevant. The statistics of those matches go in his statistics column, which is why they are included on his Soccerbase page and likely every other manager statistics site.-- Echetus Xe 11:52, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
I think there are two issues we need to address here. The first: Is Soccerbase seen as the standard? There are other sources that show historical inconsistencies; not just for Cotterill, but other players, managers, and seasons. So in the case of dissenting "reliable sources", which do we refer to? If we can use a "failed verification" flag on a number that doesn't match what Soccerbase says, can we use a "failed verification" flag on any number that doesn't match any other reliable source (such as the English National Football Association, Manager Stats, the BBC, or the Shropshire Star)? (I don't believe this is the right answer, but this is the implication.) The point I'm trying to make is that, as an encyclopaedia, fusion of sources is par for the course. If you want to make Soccerbase the standard for football stats, then are you/we prepared to audit all relevant football stats to make sure they match Soccerbase? (Again, I don't believe this is the right answer - not least because I don't think Soccerbase should be THE standard if this is the route taken - but this in the implication.) Or should case-by-case consensus be reached?-- eamont ( talk) 12:42, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
The second: Should manager statistics on these pages be recording 1) the CLUB record while the manager is in tenure or 2) the MANAGER'S personal record? In my opinion the latter is more appropriate if stats are included on a manager's page and not a club's page. A follow-up to this: are there extenuating circumstances where games should be omitted from a manager's personal record? There seems to be a spectrum of opinion above where there is acknowledgement this has been done on occasion. So where is the line? Is it when a manager is physically and/or logistically incapable of influencing a game in real time? This would allow us to continue to record games where there's a touchline ban but would also allow for exclusion when people are undergoing surgery or laying in an ICU.-- eamont ( talk) 12:42, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
As a further consideration (not yet discussed): We should be aware that in many cases (and specifically in the case of Cotterill) we're talking about a BOLP. These stats have implications for career prospects and many people trust Wikipedia and its editors to present something close to accurate. Should we err on the side of caution - as is the recommendation for BOLP - and exclude games managers had no sway over?-- eamont ( talk) 12:42, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
Interesting debate above. There is a similar situation at Inverness CT just now, with manager John Robertson placed on compassionate leave and they have appointed Neil McCann as an interim replacement. Soccerbase have been including results during McCann's interim tenure under Robertson's record (and not in McCann's). I know this is what the "reliable" source is saying, but it is clearly wrong. e.g. a win for Inverness this week was described by the local paper as " McCann's first win". Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 14:50, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
To avoid confusion with other clubs like Red Star Belgrade, what should we refer Red Star F.C. as in the infobox? For most articles, I have seen "Red Star", but personally I think "Red Star FC" would be more appropriate. Thoughts? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 22:28, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
look here, please.. -- 2.226.12.134 ( talk) 06:58, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Which is better beetween create a page for each regional qualifying group and create a page for each round? Dr Salvus 14:30, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Why is this mass of results of lower round games between minor teams notable? Giant Snowman 19:11, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Legendary as it is, this single verse of a song surely doesn't need its own article, separate to the article on the song itself....? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 21:54, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi all, I'm looking for a second opinion please. What do people think about the likes of 2019–20 Premier Arena Soccer League season and 2019–20 Western Indoor Soccer League season? Both are only cited to primary sources and this seems to be an ongoing pattern for all of the previous seasons as well. In fact, WISL largely relies on its own Wordpress site! American users in particular, are these leagues, which define themselves as semi-pro with some amateur teams, notable enough? For example, I tried to see if there were independent news sources covering Bellingham United's win over Tacoma Stars Reserves in the final of the WISL last year but nothing came up apart from Wordpress, Facebook etc. Does WP:GNG coverage exist? Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 12:12, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
I've proposed the deletion of 2012 Summer of Champions' Cup (opposed by Emir of Wikipedia, without explanation) and Summer of Champions' Cup, so just asking here if I could get some assistance on having these proposed for deletion, my understanding of proposing an article for deletion is limited outside of what I've already tried I'm afraid, so any help would be greatly appreciated. My reasoning is that coverage of this event, for which there are inexplicably two Wikipedia pages, fails to pass WP:GNG and WP:ROUTINE. ItsKesha ( talk) 21:09, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
It has a couple of decent sources but I can understand the deletion arguments. I started an AfD here. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 00:25, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
There seems to be a problem with a parameter in the infoboxes of country seasons articles. The parameter is the "wdivision1", and the "wchampions1" that goes with it. It does not appear in articles. Look at 2020 in Norwegian football or 2019–20 in English football for example. Sørhaug ( talk) 16:18, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
Noticed a couple of IPs have vandalised Brora Rangers F.C. and Heart of Midlothian F.C. tonight after the former beat the latter in the Scottish Cup and I wondered if it might be worth temporarily protecting the pages to prevent any more. Stevie fae Scotland ( talk) 22:28, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
In my opinion we should have a page called " List of Supercoppa Italiana matches". What do you think about creating this page? Dr Salvus 22:44, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
Reposted and updated version of original now archived.
As main contributor to this article, I would like to flag up for attention of others on the project a number of candidates for the list that are already wiki-articled and known or believed to have been killed in or died as a result of circumstances brought on by the war (eg execution, in enemy captivity, effects of wounds etc) but which so far lack a reliable citation regarding their death which is preconditional to inclusion in the list. A few have no death circumstances described in the text of their article but I note have been put on category lists that suggest someone knew/believed they died in wartime circumstances. I also include those whose death circumstances are disputed - see their talk pages for further detail - and are in need of a conclusive ruling in or out.
There may be additions coming onto the list so I encourage watch this space! Others are welcome to add. Please let us know if sources are found and added into pages. Cloptonson ( talk) 19:20, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
Could you help me to add the informations about the spectators in the earliest finals? Dr Salvus 14:36, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Can somebody please protect this page from vandalism? Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.203.198.249 ( talk) 23:55, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I want to know about the summary format. An user added videos of various matches to the Korea Cup summary, so I moved them to corresponding matches in each year. I want to erase the video links of the summary like the format of other competition articles, but the user who added them wants to leave them.-- Pinineeon ( talk) 16:22, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
I think that FIFA World Cup or other famous sports tournament summary tables don't need video information. Because There are so many match information including text information and video information
But Korea Cup's video information is very rare and precious and usefulBecause Korea Cup is old tournament and there isn't enough match information including official match report. For example, We can find player information through video
In conclusion, Korea Cup article need video information.
In addition, We are living in the age of videos and images. But Wikipedia only stick to text information.
I hope that wikipedia keep up with our fast moving world. Footwiks ( talk) 15:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
I've edited this template a few times to remove the large section on the 2022 World Cup qualifying campaign and create a cohesive Team Image section as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/National teams however it continues to get reverted by a user without a login. Rather than 3RR I wanted to flag it here.
My amended version can be found here: Special:Permalink/1014124281
If however I'm in the wrong and should just leave it, please let me know! Felixsv7 ( talk) 16:29, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
You people come in and completely change a template for editors that have been working on the page for years. Your template has NOT been agreed upon but by a few wikipedia users, I will continue to revert it because I have been editing that page for years and will continue to edit it for years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:3001:276F:0:90EC:4495:CE29:DA38 ( talk) 19:20, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
And I have made an account now so that your bias towards unregistered users won't continue. Like I said, I have been editing this page for years and will continue to do so. Bihnt123 ( talk) 19:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi all. Just over from Wikiproject Cricket. We're trying to find out some more information on an obscure Hampshire cricketer from 1900. Our G. Bull is called George and came from Andover. In 1905, a George Bull played for Andover F.C.. Would anyone know of any website similar to Cricket Archive, where there might be a profile lurking for Bull? StickyWicket ( talk) 19:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Help me to improve this page please Dr Salvus 14:40, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Please help me to improve the page Dr Salvus 16:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
Does this article need writing the list of 1930–1974 Golden, Silver, and Bronze Ball, and the list of 1930–1990 All Star Team? They do not have reliable sources. The Golden Ball was officially presented since 1982, and only Kempes was unofficially selected in 1978. The All-Star Team was also selected since 1994.-- Pinineeon ( talk) 02:25, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Please can somebody have a word with @ Timmy96: - an editor who only edits once in a blue moon, and in doing so adds tens and tens of thousands of bites to articles, the majority of which appears to be routine/mundane match and goal commentary (which is therefore inappropriate). My attempt to clean up the Mohammed Abu article (including correcting spelling and grammar) has simply been reverted. Giant Snowman 14:42, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
This is @
Timmy96: responding. I rarely respond to this page but I am responding that I am very unhappy with the
Giant
Snowman's changes. I worked really hard to find sources from Norwegian, American and English websites. At least, re-check the sources that I added before removing it. They could be very useful to back up the information.
User:Timmy96 14:56, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
I don't find it too bad to be honest. The bytes count is huge but that's due to lots of properly formatted refs. As for content, it's about one small paragraph for each season which reads OK to me - it could definitely do with some tidying up and maybe some of the descriptions could include less detail, but I wouldn't describe it as ridiculously excessive, OK the player is not particularly famous but it didn't make me cringe to read it due to the level of padding-out, which I have come across in the past. Crowsus ( talk) 16:27, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
I haven't read the article contents before, currently, or after the reverting, but there was this discussion earlier this month about what should be included. Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football/Archive_139#Is_this_too_much_detail? RedPatchBoy ( talk) 16:45, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
I note that @ Struway2: has just taken the chop (removing nearly 17k) to Timmy96's past expansion of the Sam Cosgrove article (after I took about 25k out back in January). Giant Snowman 12:39, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
That means a lot of me what you said. I know I am not a perfect editor or in fact, person, but I do feel what's best to improve the article. I edited Wikipedia because I can't stand there and do nothing if nothing has been changed. If nobody going to edit the Wikipedia, then I am going to do it myself... depending on my schedule. I do admit I don't pay attention to the bytes count. When I edit a Wikipedia article, it would be all at once, from the beginning to the end. For me, it takes days for me to edit a Wikipedia article and save my work on the Word Document once the day comes to an end and then resume the next day until I finish adding the information that I can find. Whenever I look for the website, I make sure save the website by using the Internet Machine Archive for future viewing should the web page disappear. User:Timmy96 21:34, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
This user has created 7 pages: 4 have been deleted and 2 are currently in AfD. It seems they don't understand that their articles are being deleted because the subjects aren't notable, and continue to create non-notable people (as well as having been warned on six separate occasions on their tak page for various other disruptive editing). They have never engaged in any discussion as well. Nehme 1499 22:30, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Dr Salvus, GiantSnowman, Nehme1499 - seems like they're continuing to repost the same barely sourced NFOOTBALL-failing BLPs. I'm presuming they won't stop until they're all salted. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 13:33, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello all. I'm just in the process of writing up 1991 Football League Third Division play-off Final and a reviewer at GAN has asked the very reasonable question about what determined that Grimsby finished above Bolton, goals scored or goal difference? Now, before someone says "it doesn't matter" because Grimsby were superior in both, there does seem to be a distinct lack of WP:RS across the project relating to what determines the positions in the league for a given season. Can anyone help? Cheers. The Rambling Man ( Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 07:25, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Seasons were it had an impact, for those interested (definite football quiz knowledge):
Worth 10 minutes of my time to remember that and the ITV Digital debacle. Koncorde ( talk) 19:51, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
What are the rules on articles for reserve teams of professional clubs? Especially in those countries where they are in the league pyramid system but are barred from national cup competitions and national divisions? Abcmaxx ( talk) 14:57, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Do we need Category:Republic of Ireland international footballers from Northern Ireland? Notwithstanding the complex political history in Ireland, how is this really any different to e.g. Category:Scotland international footballers from England or similar? Giant Snowman 20:56, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi. Help me to switch all collapsible tables in normal tables in the pages about Coupe de France preliminary rounds Dr Salvus 21:51, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Tie no | Home team (Tier) | Score | Away team (Tier) |
---|---|---|---|
1. |
![]() |
2–2 (4–3 p) | FC Sud (R3)
![]() |
Adopted by Gricehead
Tie no | Home team (Tier) | Score | Away team (Tier) |
---|---|---|---|
1. |
![]() |
2–2 (4–3 p) | FC Sud (R3)
![]() |
Adopted by Stevie fae Scotland
It is necessary to clarify what and which format to adopt. I also invite other users to choose which format to use between the two. I would prefer the one adopted by Gricehead. Dr Salvus 21:37, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
No flags and SFS's format. Nehme 1499 22:51, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
If this page were created, it would be a violation of WP: NFOOTY. I'm not sure though if he would also violate WP: GNG, as he won the 2020 FIFA Fair Play Award and became famous as a result. Could this page be created? Dr Salvus 12:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
@ Bogic: has created a lot of pages about non-notable friendly matches. Can you help me locate them and nominate them for deletion? Dr Salvus 18:03, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
I've been editing the Battle of Bramall Lane article, and in my research I've found a couple of other matches abandoned due to a shortage of players. Two I've mentioned in the article. But it seems out of place, and it got me thinking, would an article titled something like " List of abandoned association football matches" be acceptable? It's not common for games to be abandoned, but it's happened often enough that I think this article maybe has merit? Would appreciate any advice or input. ItsKesha ( talk) 15:19, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
Didn't we come to a conclusion not so long ago that flags in match articles are absolutely fine? With that in mind, can anyone offer a decent defence for User:The Rambling Man's removal of the flags from the 2019 FA Cup Final article? – Pee Jay 19:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
However, some editors feel that some tables such as those containing sports statistics (example) are easier to read ifand[[|]] is used throughout.
If a sportsperson has not competed at the international level, then the eligibility rules of the international sport governing body (such as IRB, FIFA, IAAF, etc.) should be used. If these rules allow a player to represent two or more nations, then a reliable source should be used to show who the sportsperson has chosen to represent.These concerns are all in MOS:FLAG. I'm still not seeing how it "fails." SportingFlyer T· C 21:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
However, some editors feel that some tables such as those containing sports statistics (example) are easier to read ifNehme 1499 21:43, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[[|]] is used throughout.
It's probably worth noting that articles which have no quality standards applied to them, i.e. below GA-class, have no requirement to comply with WP:MOS and as such poor practice like the use of standalone flags in inappropriate circumstances is all too commonplace. But articles which are going through WP:FAC need to demonstrably meet all facets of MOS, and MOS:FLAG is part of that. Finally, just because it might not have happened in the past, it doesn't mean it should happen now or in the future. The Rambling Man ( Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 20:59, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
Are the unofficial training matches between the senior and the under-21 team listed at "Results and fixtures" section in the national team articles, even though none of the sources (soccerway, soccerbase, ESPN, Sky Sports, national-football-teams, FIFA, worldfootball.net, RSSSF etc.) list those fixtures? Because some people are keep adding those matches back to the articles with apparent rational "the game was played, so it must be listed", which makes no sense. Snowflake91 ( talk) 13:27, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Editor @ Walter Görlitz: reverted this edit stating in the edit summary: "Kits without logos are prefered for reasons of copyright". My question is, how much can be considered "copyrighted" a so small depiction of a logo? (in the specific case of the England jersey, the FA and Umbro logos are so small that blaming "copyright" here does not make sense. Moreover, files like this are included into the de minimis criteria and hosted on commons because of that.
I'd like to read more opinions from other editors so they may clarify the issue and I'll know how to proceed in similar cases. Fma12 ( talk) 18:30, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
On a related note, the graphics should have a high degree of transparency as well so they can be greatly utilised, as stated in template:Football kit/pattern list#No transparency. For example, there's no point for half of those in commons:Category:Football kit templates/Liechtenstein national football team, just change the background colour in the kitbox. VEO one five 15:10, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Two things to ask, have they played in the Polish cup to qualify for an article, as I couldn't find that, and if so, should the article be moved to TKS Skawinka Skawina? Govvy ( talk) 09:08, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Is this page necessary? And if so, it should be moved to 2021 international association football friendlies (or something similar). Nehme 1499 18:19, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
There seems to be a lot going to AfD, I am a bit concerned we maybe wiping out that information when it can easily be transcribed to a clubs season article, a sentence in club history page. I feel it's good to show what a club did that summer, winter and to ask those that nominate an article to make sure the same information is associated on another page. Cheers. Govvy ( talk) 09:40, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Strange one here - every few weeks a new account will pop up (nearly all with the format of a few letters followed by a few numbers), change the stats incorrectly, and then disappear again. What is going on - socking? Giant Snowman 09:22, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
The disambiguation page keeps getting changed to a redirect and messed around with. Anyone else able to help out? Govvy ( talk) 12:13, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Surely this is a continuation of Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 139#The Home of Football. JorgeLaArdilla ( talk) 12:52, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi. The FC Andorra, football club from Andorra. They play in Segunda División B on Spain. My question is about the categories for the players, they count as "expatriate sportspeople in Andorra" or "expatriate sportspeople in Spain", and "Expatriate footballers in Andorra" or "Expatriate footballers in Spain", or just maybe both. Grettings. Pincheira22 ( talk) 17:03, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Not the right place for them to request it, but does this represent a change in notability for Mukhtar_Abayomi_Sanusi? Eddie891 Talk Work 21:42, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
This query comes about from Viljami Sinisalo, an Aston Villa youth player on loan at Ayr United currently. He made one emergency league (3rd tier) appearance for his Finnish club FC Espoo at age 15 in 2017, this is classed as a 'pro debut'. Around a year later, he signed a youth contract (not professional) at Aston Villa and then spent 2 years and three months there as a U18 and U23 player before joining Ayr on loan this season on a full season loan. He is still not on professional terms as per this recent article [23].
My query is that this is a player without a professional contract who has played youth football for Aston Villa for 2.5 seasons, he has never been in a match-day senior squad for them, however his infobox shows that his youth career ended on that day in 2017 as a 15-year old when he played 90 minutes for FC Espoo's seniors and his 'senior career' at Aston Villa started in 2018 when he signed for them. My gut instinct is that this is not a true reporting of the facts and that you should be able list Aston Villa in this player's youth career section as that is factually what happened. The purpose of the infobox should be to present the information clearly and in this case it's not. Can we form a consensus for the niche case of when a player 'returns to youth football' that that second spell of youth football is included in their youth career infobox section? Does anyone have a strong argument the other way? I have looked up the past history of discussion on this topic and it seems like there is not a strong consensus or guidance either way, just a currently agreed status quo. Mountaincirque talk 10:47, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks all for the responses. Can I first off thanks to @ RedPatchBoy for the RfC details, @ GiantSnowman, your opinion would be valued on that too. I agree that the quite brief discussions shared by @ Nehme1499 above don't really provide consensus either way for me, seeming to be split 50/50. Based on this discussion today I can see six editors, including myself, for being open to exceptions to allowing overlap of senior/youth career when a player returns to youth football after their pro debut, such as Viljami Sinisalo, with one editor preferring the previously used approach of always keeping clubs in the 'Senior Career' section after the pro debut, regardless of any extenuating circumstances or lack of a pro contract.
How to proceed from here? I agree with RedPatchBoy that an RfC with limited options would be the way to go but frankly I don't have the time to manage that myself. Based on the previous RfC it seems to me that there is already enough leeway here to allow cases such as Viljami Sinisalo to be amended, especially as 'allowing overlap of senior/youth' was the most popular option in the most recent RfC on this (despite not getting an overall majority). Mountaincirque talk 15:42, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
I've had my edits changed a few times by an editor who feels like a club's name can only appear once in an article. So instead they will write and "he left the XYZ Stadium that year" using obscure stadiums. If it was saying the Camp Nou/Old Trafford/etc, I'd say okay, but an obscure stadium for a mid-table non-top league, who would know those stadiums. For example, I got my edit changed here (accusing me of stuff I never even did - I never touched spacings, categories, etc) from "In May 2019, Braga announced Ferreira would be leaving the club when his contract expired the following month" to "In May 2019, Braga announced Ferreira would be leaving the Estádio Municipal de Braga when his contract expired the following month" because writing the stadium name was important because the word club apparently "appears 500 times" (it actually appears twice in the whole article). At least that stadium had the city name in it, I've had this user revert to even more obscure names in the past because they felt a team name couldn't be used more than once in a multi-paragraph section. Feels more like "Trivia" that actually improving the article. Thoughts? I also got passive aggressive and over-the-top edit summary responses such as this because I wrote a player's first name in a an image caption - I haven't even been engaging with this editor. I'm just editing articles for players from Canadian teams or Canadian themselves, which is where I'm from, that I normally do RedPatchBoy ( talk) 23:02, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Braga announced Ferreira would be leaving the Estádio Municipal de Braga when his contract expired the following month.is poor, but "the club" is also redundant as
Braga announced Ferreira would leave when his contract expired the following month.says the same thing, or even better
Braga announced Ferreira's contract would not be renewed at the end of the 2019 season making him a free agent. Ferreira was without a club until January 2020 when he signed a short term deal with Belenenses SADwhich conveys even more context. So the user isn't actually improving the structure of the article in making it more complex, nor are they conveying the information more clearly. Koncorde ( talk) 08:02, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello all, just a reminder that a number of featured article candidates are currently running which are member articles of the football wikiproject and could use some reviews! Those in need:
Have a good Easter weekend all. The Rambling Man ( Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 07:55, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
How are we treating football related articles for Abkhazia region? I've just prodded two club pages for deletion, ( Football Club Abazg Sukhum and Football Club Kiaraz Pitsunda). I am not sure if Abkhazian Premier League is running independently away from the main country of Georgia or not. It feels somewhat a little more complicated, with a few issues when I look into it. Govvy ( talk) 11:24, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
Where a club has both a "managers" category and "non-playing staff" category, I believe it makes sense for the former to be a subcategory of the latter, since managers are a subset of non-playing staff. However in England at least, only three clubs (Middlesbrough, Sunderland and Sheffield United) currently follow this structure (those with the blue triangles under Category:Football non-playing staff in England by club). Let me know what you think of this structure; if it seems sensible then I will start to apply the same to other teams. -- Jameboy ( talk) 16:44, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
Hello. As more articles of players that have played or play for the PSG reserve side since 2019 emerge, the question of what to call the team becomes bigger. Basically, in 2019, PSG got rid of its "B team". The amateur "C team" got promoted to the fifth tier the same year the B team was deleted. So, since 2019, the PSG reserve team has been playing in the fifth tier, but is composed solely of amateur footballers, and is not linked to the first team the same way the former B team was. The final step before becoming pro is now the U19 team. My question is what to call this "new" reserve team. Should it be called Paris Saint-Germain C, Paris Saint-Germain Reserves, Paris Saint-Germain Amateurs, or Paris Saint-Germain B? I personally prefer Paris Saint-Germain C. The only players I know of that have played for this team that are on Wikipedia are Lucas Bernadou, Cédric N'Koum, and Gaël N'Lundulu. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 21:27, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello. Which image would you recommend for the Jean-Pierre Adams article? This one or this one? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 18:16, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
There's a dispute going on here as to whether a table of "Winners by city/town" is a valid inclusion. Bringing it here to get a wider consenseus. Pinging PeeJay and Cheesy McGee -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 08:38, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
I know the above link refers to an established consensus at the Snooker WikiProject, but I've also seen this applied to footy articles with match results as well. I'm curious about whether this WikiProject already has an established consensus for this as well, and if not, whether we should try to establish one, as I do agree that live score updates do fall under WP:NOTNEWS. Jalen Folf (talk) 21:08, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 135 | ← | Archive 138 | Archive 139 | Archive 140 | Archive 141 | Archive 142 | → | Archive 145 |
Hello, I was wondering how British referees should be formatted at the Olympic Games. Typically, referees are listed in tournament articles with their name and national association, for example " Néstor Pitana ( Argentina)" at the 2018 World Cup. However, at the Olympics the United Kingdom as a whole are represented as Great Britain. Should referees from England/Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland be listed with "Great Britain" or their respective national association? To add to this, the English Football Association is regarded as the national governing body of football within the British Olympic Association. Here are some possible options, using Scottish referee Hugh Dallas from 1996 as an example:
[[Hugh Dallas]] ([[Scottish Football Association|Great Britain]])
→
Hugh Dallas (
Great Britain)[[Hugh Dallas]] ([[The Football Association|Great Britain]])
→
Hugh Dallas (
Great Britain)[[Hugh Dallas]] ([[Scottish Football Association|Scotland]])
→
Hugh Dallas (
Scotland)Which of these methods should be used? S.A. Julio ( talk) 08:53, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
[[Hugh Dallas]] ([[Scottish Football Association|Great Britain]])
falls foul of
WP:SURPRISE in my opinion, as a British football team isn't mentioned there. Link to British Olympic team would be better- although they work for the FA/SFA, they're presumably employed as British referees for the Olympics.
Joseph
2302 (
talk) 09:42, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
If anyone sees more similar edit warring from two IP addresses again, use a tougher protection duration than the 7 days which was the previous duration. Recent edits to the page are nothing but adding/taking away 11 bytes off the page. Iggy ( Swan) ( Contribs) 21:34, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
https://instagram.com/churchillbrothersfcgoa?igshid=18aiagmc6lp0z
Needs updatescto latest version also — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.142.139.21 ( talk) 22:56, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
https://www.instagram.com/p/CL_eC6HjI1f/?igshid=s5zvt4zbtbm9 Urgent edits needed 🙏 even users reverting occured — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.142.139.21 ( talk) 22:38, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi, There was a discussion earlier regarding the deletion of a player wiki profile named Asrar Rehbar who plays in the I-League 2nd Division for Bangalore United. The reason given was that I-League 2nd Division isn't included in the list of Professional Leagues. I would like to argue here that the I-League 2nd Division fulfils all the criteria of a professional league and the winner qualifies for the I-League. Players are on a long term contract earning basic income required in India. On the wiki page of I-League 2nd Division as well it's mentioned that it is a Professional League. It has been confirmed by the All India Football Federation as well. Could verify the same and add the league to the list so that the article doesn’t need to be deleted. Also not forgetting that Sevilla FC from La Liga have an exclusive partnership Tie-Up with Bangalore United who play in the I-League 2nd Division. Attaching the press release from Sevilla FC : [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballbrain01 ( talk • contribs) 17:15, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Virtually all articles written by User:Almgerdeu do not appear to be notable (and the writing quality does not typically live up to Wikipedia standards). Many articles appear to be about obscure referees ( Example 1 Example 2 Example 3). Several of the user's created articles have already been removed. I have limited knowledge on the topic of association football so I would appreciate if someone could review and take appropriate action if necessary. Kstern ( talk) 13:56, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
A large number of this editor's articles have been deleted as non-notable. Giant Snowman 17:24, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
I've come across Thorsten Tönnies. He played 7 minuets for Werder Bremen's reserve team at 3rd tier level in 2010 and has spent the rest of his career playing in the 4th and 5th tiers of German football so far. Does 7 minuets for a reserve club 10 years ago really make him pass WP:FOOTY? REDMAN 2019 ( talk) 18:30, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
There's a situation at Pelé (discussion here) but I can't make sense of what the other user is trying to say. Any ideas? – Pee Jay 12:42, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello. When updating a player timestamp for an appearance that was a couple of days prior, do we put the day of the last match played or simply five tildes? Thanks. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 14:17, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
use five tildes (~~~~~) to generate the current date/time in dmy format, or {{subst:mdytime}} for mdy format.. Cheers, Gricehead ( talk) 14:23, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
In {{ Infobox football league season}} there're 4 parameters:
|longest wins=
|longest unbeaten=
|longest winless=
|longest losses=
Are these values calculated based on by date or by round? If a game is postponed, it can lead to a different result depending on whether we count by date (actual date) or by round round (original date). -- Sb008 ( talk) 23:46, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
We also have {{ #invoke:Sports rbr table|function}} which is called rbr (by round) and not rbd (by date). So, the parameters in the infobox and table produced by the module could conflict, if we use by date for the infobox parameters. -- Sb008 ( talk) 01:18, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Agreed. 100% it's by date order. RedPatchBoy ( talk) 12:33, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Are there independent reliable sources providing this information? Eldumpo ( talk) 20:55, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Can you please advise on this issue? -- Tanonero (msg) 23:36, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Overcategorization#Sportspeople by event to increase the wording of WP:PERFCAT to include sportspeople by event (examples include Category:FIFA World Cup-winning players and Category:Summer Olympics medalists by year). If anyone has an interest in the discussion it can be found at the link above. Rikster2 ( talk) 20:41, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
Protection requested please, it should probably be obvious why, but please check the history if in any doubt. There are other pages in the same boat but this seems to be the worst AFAIK. Suggest keeping it beyond the next Old Firm game on 21/03, there's always drunken 'banter' spikes at that point. Thanks. Crowsus ( talk) 00:16, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi. I would like that this article be a FL. It would be possible if this article have the data about the attendance are present. Unfortunately it is not possible. What can I do? Dr Salvus ( talk) 13:52, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
I've been going through some of the 6,000+ unassessed football articles to help clear some of the backlog and I'm not sure if Cyril Dunning is really notable. I've PROD-ed a couple of other articles already but because of this guy's brief amateur international career there might be something there. I wonder though if he falls foul of WP:BLP1E as the most notable thing about him is that he scored a hattrick in Germany's biggest ever defeat. I can't find any evidence that he ever played for Norwich City either but I'd be grateful to anyone with any offline sources that could verify that. Stevie fae Scotland ( talk) 12:12, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Dunning played 43 times for the club in the Southern League, scoring 25 goals. He also played 5 times for them in the "United League", which I've never heard of(!), once without scoring in the "N & S League" (ditto) and once, again without scoring, in the FA Cup. These stats in my 1986 edition of Canary Citizens, page 315. I tracked down that FA Cup match, in case it helped you. It's on page 248 of the same book. It was a 1st round tie on 1/5/1909 v Reading, which was played at Stamford Bridge, in front of a crowd of 15,732. Norwich eventually won that tie in a second replay at Villa Park, beat Liverpool in the next round, before being knocked out by Bristol City in the third. The match he played in is actually already mentioned in Wikipedia, though not referenced. It's in our article on The Nest: "An FA Cup tie against Reading later in the year had to be switched to a neutral venue when City's opponents complained that the Nest pitch was not big enough – but the club soon settled into their new home and it was not long before five figure crowds were packing into the compact little ground." I think playing in the first round proper of the FA Cup normally qualifies for our notability criteria, but the citations mentioned above would be far better. -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 23:11, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
<- Robby.is.on I'd rather not do any more if you guys think the article should be deleted. What's the consensus? I can't see the other references SportingFlyer mentioned. -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 11:26, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
He played cricket in the Minor Counties Championship for Norfolk for several years, according to his CricketArchive profile, which also gives a list of other football clubs he played for. It's a paywalled site, but if you hit Escape quickly enough when the page starts to load and before the subscribe banner covers it up again, it will remain visible. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 12:35, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
I've updated his article. Struway, Joseph2302, we have a discrepancy in sources over the exact date of death. -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned!
Nice collaborative work, everyone. -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 13:45, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Does he pass WP:FOOTY? Having had a look at where he's played, I cant see any evidence of him having played in a WP:FPL, but I thought I'd check it here before starting an AfD. Microwave Anarchist ( talk) 22:14, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
In a move discussion,
Evergreen FC has been proposed for
merging into
Northern Virginia Royals. If interested, please participate in
the related move discussion. Thank you.
Rotideypoc41352 (
talk ·
contribs) 12:59, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi all, sorry to open another can of worms about seasons. Are articles like 2020 Chicago State Cougars men's soccer team within the seasons criteria? I'm aware that WP:NSEASONS says A national championship season at the top collegiate level is generally notable. but my concern is that these seasons don't get enough independent and significant coverage to meet WP:GNG. What's people's opinions on this? Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 14:09, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
@ Smartyllama:, @ Quidster4040:, @ Ajax.amsterdam.fan: do you have access to any independent, reliable sources providing in-depth coverage of 2020 Chicago State Cougars men's soccer team of the standard that would pass WP:GNG? Thanks. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:11, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Consensus in the past on these types of team season articles is that they are given a presumption of notability if they qualify for the NCAA Division I Men's Soccer Tournament, because those teams tend to gain a higher level of coverage for qualifying for the national tournament, especially if they reach the College Cup. Sometimes articles get created prematurely. I think Chicago State is probably one of those articles. Jay eyem ( talk) 16:48, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi all,
I think we need to have some discussion around NSEASONS, given the current differences of opinion at AfDs like Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008–09 Cambridge United F.C. season. As far as I can see it, the situation is that some editors' view is broadly that seasons in fully pro leagues are notable and seasons in non-fully pro leagues are not "per NSEASONS". Note that NSEASONS just says "Articles can be created on individual seasons of teams in top professional leagues, as these articles almost always meet the notability requirements", which could be taken to imply that seasons in non-fully pro leagues can also be created if they meet "the notability requirements" (unspecified, but would presumably be GNG). So the question is - what type of coverage is needed for a season to get over that line? Some of the articles currently up for debate have dozens of refs to BBC Sport, etc, but they tend to be dismissed as routine news. So are we looking for in-depth coverage of the season in its entirety? How many seasons even at the pro level would pass that bar? Has (picking a completely random example) 2003–04 Stockport County F.C. season been the subject of in-depth coverage as a whole? Yet that would probably get a "per NSEASONS" free pass. Also, would that requirement not suggest that almost no articles could be created on seasons still in progress?
Apologies if the above is a bit "stream of consciousness" but I think it's definitely a subject that needs some discussion, as there are clearly definite differences of opinion....... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 11:45, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
For football, WP:NSEASONS is met when a team's season has been consistently covered by reliable secondary sources per WP:GNG. This includes reporting on match reports, routine transactions, and any events that occurred over the course of the season.is that most non-league teams, certainly down to level 8 or 9, would have this level of coverage in their local media. We therefore need to have a realistic cutoff, and matching the FPL cutoff seems the most sensible place to draw the line IMO. Number 5 7 23:01, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
NSEASONS is just a guidance and shouldn't be used as an argument to ever supersede GNG, that's just wrong voting that way in my opinion. As for the National League, surprisingly enough, even know it's semi-professional, it near operates fully professional, as anyone of those clubs, even the smallest of chances get promoted to League Two have to put all players on club contracts. I don't know about others, but I feel that NSEASONS should extend into the National League and that's the cut off, period. Govvy ( talk) 10:51, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
NSEASONS is a waste of time and appears to just create ambiguity and inconsistency with site-wide policy like WP:GNG. Chris was generous selecting a Stockport season, I offered 1958–59 Liverpool F.C. season as a non-notable season (per NSEASONS) which seems frankly bonkers. But I also find it strange that we're expecting news outside "transfers and matches" because that would mean most seasons for most teams would be non-notable. I also find it strange that some people think that you can't write an NSEASONS-compliant article using prose about matches and transfers, that's altogether possible. In summary, NSEASONS really provides nothing helpful at all, especially not in the context of the various deletion discussions I've seen it used in as it does not preclude the creation pretty much any season article. The Rambling Man ( Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:19, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
Some clubs, such as Juventus F.C. and FC Bayern Munich, don't have the star(s) on their logo, whereas others, like FC Dynamo Kyiv and Galatasaray S.K., do. Should we remove the stars from the latter, or add them to the former? Nehme 1499 18:59, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
I would just remove stars from logos if the stars indicate titles won, and can potentially change the next year(s) with a title win. Nehme 1499 16:27, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
What are the thoughts on the reliability of https://thepeoplesperson.com/ and https://www.thesportsman.com/? SK2242 ( talk) 10:30, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
Any admin around who would like to take a look at the contributions of User:Carlão Junigan Magalhães? Spotted on my watchlist changing the infobox of Jairinho to include spells at Flamengo and Real Madrid, despite the sourced career history in the prose. Further investigation found all his contributions from 5 March to today have done similar things on 13 player articles. An earlier editing spree between 19 January and 8 February did the same to 8 other player articles, but may well have been completely reverted by now as none of these edits are still current. User has been welcomed but not warned, prior to my uw-2 for Jairinho. Thanks in advance, Gricehead ( talk) 09:28, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
After further research to check sources, I have reverted all edits in the period 5 March to 15 March, but would still invite an admin to consider whether further action is required. Gricehead ( talk) 10:32, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
The bracket has been added into the page during this phase of the competition (round of 16, 2legs). In recent years, I don't remember adding it during this phase. It should be added only once, only after the quarter final draw, in which all pairings are established 100%. Island92 ( talk) 12:17, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
If no one comes up with a valid argument, I will re-add the bracket and report who ever removes it, for removing valid and accurate information without a good reason (aka vandalism). -- Sb008 ( talk) 22:37, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
@ Sb008: As far as I understand, the problem that users have with adding the bracket currently is that it does not reflect the future necessarily correctly, and only after the quarter-final draw do we know the full pathway. Currently (before the draw), you don't know which winners will face-off and therefore listing it now as a bracket can lead readers to think that it is the set path. For example, in this version, a reader might think that PSG will play Liverpool in the quarter-final and Porto will play Dortmund. -- SuperJew ( talk) 14:07, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
Please help me to improve this page. I would like that this page is a FL DrSalvus ( talk) 22:47, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
A new schedule was released today. All the scheduled matches must be revised.-- Island92 ( talk) 22:59, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi, i found this graph on the Real Sociedad article. If we have a season to season section on spanish clubs, I think it is unnecessary information, do you?. Thanks. Pincheira22 ( talk) 13:18, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
Protecting Ché Adams till the novelty of his Scottish call-up wears off would be much appreciated. thanks, Struway2 ( talk) 14:07, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi all, there's a bit of a discrepancy in the article names. Which do we think is correct? For example, for Liverpool, we have Liverpool 4–0 Barcelona, Liverpool 0–2 Arsenal (26 May 1989), Liverpool 9–0 Crystal Palace (1989) and Liverpool 11–0 Strømsgodset where the full name of the club is not in the title (i.e. the 'F.C.' is omitted) but then we have AFC Ajax 5–1 Liverpool F.C. (1966), Liverpool F.C. 1–2 Grimsby Town F.C. (2001) and Liverpool F.C. 4–3 Newcastle United F.C. (1996) with the full club names in the article title. Which is correct? Are they both correct potentially? Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 12:00, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
I agree with the need for consistency. To unpack what the right approach is, I'd quite like to understand why we wouldn't go with the simplest option, without FC (etc). Is the concern that some team names are also those of cities/regions?
Another question: how do other sports handle this? Cheers, -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 12:51, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
I think the title of the club as per what we use on Wikipedia should be used in these titles. It is crazy to use different ways of referring to the same entity in our article titles across the encyclopedia. As for disambiguation, it should be minimised. I can't see a good reason for the full date of the Liverpool/Arsenal match unless there was another LFC 0-2 AFC match in May 1989. The "year" can be helpful in most cases for some immediate context, but isn't essential in almost every single case as the scoreline itself is a disambiguator for most such articles. The Rambling Man ( Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:14, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
I am under the process of reviewing Draft:List of top international women's football goal scorers by country which has been submitted at AFC. The article seems fine, although some minor issues are there. The list is incomplete and needs a few more citations. I would like to accept this. If accepted, this will become an important football article like the List of top international men's football goal scorers by country. With these minor issues, I'm little bit confused here. Im also a new AFC reviewer. So I'm asking for expertise suggestions? Please dont forget to ping me while replying. Kichu🐘 Need any help? 11:25, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello. Abdou Diallo just got his first call-up for Senegal. He was born in France, has lived in France his whole pre-professional life, and has only played for France youth teams until now. Should we wait until he makes an official appearance for Senegal to change anything? And if we do change anything, what nationality should he be in the opening paragraph? French-Senegalese, Senegalese, or French? I would lean on French-Senegalese. I believe there was a similar discussion for John Brooks of Germany/USA? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 15:18, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
While not passing NFOOTY, she does seem to be notable enough to have a Wikipedia page. However, the current state of the article reads like a fan page, or a CV, rather than an encyclopedic page. I've already cleaned it up a bit, can someone else help out? Thanks, Nehme 1499 17:18, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Which are the Notability criterias of players in Italy? DrSalvus ( talk) 20:05, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Please help me to improve the page DrSalvus ( talk) 19:00, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
...what do the gathered luminaries make of List of women's Olympic football tournament own goals, which seems to be a part of an obscure series of lists of own goals in major tournaments? This particular one is sourced entirely to FIFA, which suggests it lacks general notability.
Others are:
Cheers, Gricehead ( talk) 21:06, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Is it really that notable and deserving of it's own article? Govvy ( talk) 14:09, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Can someone help me out by taking a look at Francisco Wagsley please, and seeing if you can reproduce a bug?
For me, in my default configuration (Legacy Vector), I can't click on the links for Al-Wehdat or Al-Jahra SC, but I think that's just a symptom. Also, select and copy of the infobox flips to include the entire article when I go past these same rows (sorry, this action is hard to describe).
Interestingly, if I switch skin, the issue (mostly) persists, but sometimes on different rows of the infobox. Similarly, if I go through old revisions, it's sometimes different rows of the infobox affected.
Problem seems to have been introduced in [12] with the introduction of the Romanian language reference as, for me, at that point the São Luiz row of the infobox becomes unclickable.
I initially thought it was due to the right-to-left arabic script in the second reference introduced in that diff, but it seems not.
Edit to add - I can't reproduce this by pulling the infobox and reflist out to a separate sandbox page, either.
Thanks in advance, Gricehead ( talk) 12:05, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi project, Amakuru and I are currently pushing ahead with trying to get Sutton United 2–1 Coventry City (1989) to featured status, and there's a very decent comment that says the current kit displayed there isn't correct. Indeed, it needs to be the half-and-half blue shirt as shown in this grainy video. Can anyone here help create this please? The Rambling Man ( Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 20:30, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Is this page notable? DrSalvus ( talk) 21:32, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
I raised this in January. Basically his games as a manager were omitted from his managerial statistic for games he was in hospital with Covid. This was at odds with Soccerbase who included these games in his figures. The limited consensus at the time was to include them. I changed Cotterill’s figures to reflect this. Eduditio1990 has reverted this on the basis that if sources confirm a manager was elsewhere then those games should be omitted from their tally. Personally I’d go with Soccerbase but any comments on this welcomed.-- Egghead06 ( talk) 16:05, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Just to note the editor's username is Eruditio1990 with an "r", so they won't have got pinged by the misspelt mentions above. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 17:47, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Steve Cotterill was the Shrewsbury Town manager at the time of the matches. His location at the time of those matches is not relevant. The statistics of those matches go in his statistics column, which is why they are included on his Soccerbase page and likely every other manager statistics site.-- Echetus Xe 11:52, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
I think there are two issues we need to address here. The first: Is Soccerbase seen as the standard? There are other sources that show historical inconsistencies; not just for Cotterill, but other players, managers, and seasons. So in the case of dissenting "reliable sources", which do we refer to? If we can use a "failed verification" flag on a number that doesn't match what Soccerbase says, can we use a "failed verification" flag on any number that doesn't match any other reliable source (such as the English National Football Association, Manager Stats, the BBC, or the Shropshire Star)? (I don't believe this is the right answer, but this is the implication.) The point I'm trying to make is that, as an encyclopaedia, fusion of sources is par for the course. If you want to make Soccerbase the standard for football stats, then are you/we prepared to audit all relevant football stats to make sure they match Soccerbase? (Again, I don't believe this is the right answer - not least because I don't think Soccerbase should be THE standard if this is the route taken - but this in the implication.) Or should case-by-case consensus be reached?-- eamont ( talk) 12:42, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
The second: Should manager statistics on these pages be recording 1) the CLUB record while the manager is in tenure or 2) the MANAGER'S personal record? In my opinion the latter is more appropriate if stats are included on a manager's page and not a club's page. A follow-up to this: are there extenuating circumstances where games should be omitted from a manager's personal record? There seems to be a spectrum of opinion above where there is acknowledgement this has been done on occasion. So where is the line? Is it when a manager is physically and/or logistically incapable of influencing a game in real time? This would allow us to continue to record games where there's a touchline ban but would also allow for exclusion when people are undergoing surgery or laying in an ICU.-- eamont ( talk) 12:42, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
As a further consideration (not yet discussed): We should be aware that in many cases (and specifically in the case of Cotterill) we're talking about a BOLP. These stats have implications for career prospects and many people trust Wikipedia and its editors to present something close to accurate. Should we err on the side of caution - as is the recommendation for BOLP - and exclude games managers had no sway over?-- eamont ( talk) 12:42, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
Interesting debate above. There is a similar situation at Inverness CT just now, with manager John Robertson placed on compassionate leave and they have appointed Neil McCann as an interim replacement. Soccerbase have been including results during McCann's interim tenure under Robertson's record (and not in McCann's). I know this is what the "reliable" source is saying, but it is clearly wrong. e.g. a win for Inverness this week was described by the local paper as " McCann's first win". Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 14:50, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
To avoid confusion with other clubs like Red Star Belgrade, what should we refer Red Star F.C. as in the infobox? For most articles, I have seen "Red Star", but personally I think "Red Star FC" would be more appropriate. Thoughts? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 22:28, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
look here, please.. -- 2.226.12.134 ( talk) 06:58, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Which is better beetween create a page for each regional qualifying group and create a page for each round? Dr Salvus 14:30, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Why is this mass of results of lower round games between minor teams notable? Giant Snowman 19:11, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Legendary as it is, this single verse of a song surely doesn't need its own article, separate to the article on the song itself....? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 21:54, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi all, I'm looking for a second opinion please. What do people think about the likes of 2019–20 Premier Arena Soccer League season and 2019–20 Western Indoor Soccer League season? Both are only cited to primary sources and this seems to be an ongoing pattern for all of the previous seasons as well. In fact, WISL largely relies on its own Wordpress site! American users in particular, are these leagues, which define themselves as semi-pro with some amateur teams, notable enough? For example, I tried to see if there were independent news sources covering Bellingham United's win over Tacoma Stars Reserves in the final of the WISL last year but nothing came up apart from Wordpress, Facebook etc. Does WP:GNG coverage exist? Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 12:12, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
I've proposed the deletion of 2012 Summer of Champions' Cup (opposed by Emir of Wikipedia, without explanation) and Summer of Champions' Cup, so just asking here if I could get some assistance on having these proposed for deletion, my understanding of proposing an article for deletion is limited outside of what I've already tried I'm afraid, so any help would be greatly appreciated. My reasoning is that coverage of this event, for which there are inexplicably two Wikipedia pages, fails to pass WP:GNG and WP:ROUTINE. ItsKesha ( talk) 21:09, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
It has a couple of decent sources but I can understand the deletion arguments. I started an AfD here. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 00:25, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
There seems to be a problem with a parameter in the infoboxes of country seasons articles. The parameter is the "wdivision1", and the "wchampions1" that goes with it. It does not appear in articles. Look at 2020 in Norwegian football or 2019–20 in English football for example. Sørhaug ( talk) 16:18, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
Noticed a couple of IPs have vandalised Brora Rangers F.C. and Heart of Midlothian F.C. tonight after the former beat the latter in the Scottish Cup and I wondered if it might be worth temporarily protecting the pages to prevent any more. Stevie fae Scotland ( talk) 22:28, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
In my opinion we should have a page called " List of Supercoppa Italiana matches". What do you think about creating this page? Dr Salvus 22:44, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
Reposted and updated version of original now archived.
As main contributor to this article, I would like to flag up for attention of others on the project a number of candidates for the list that are already wiki-articled and known or believed to have been killed in or died as a result of circumstances brought on by the war (eg execution, in enemy captivity, effects of wounds etc) but which so far lack a reliable citation regarding their death which is preconditional to inclusion in the list. A few have no death circumstances described in the text of their article but I note have been put on category lists that suggest someone knew/believed they died in wartime circumstances. I also include those whose death circumstances are disputed - see their talk pages for further detail - and are in need of a conclusive ruling in or out.
There may be additions coming onto the list so I encourage watch this space! Others are welcome to add. Please let us know if sources are found and added into pages. Cloptonson ( talk) 19:20, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
Could you help me to add the informations about the spectators in the earliest finals? Dr Salvus 14:36, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Can somebody please protect this page from vandalism? Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.203.198.249 ( talk) 23:55, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I want to know about the summary format. An user added videos of various matches to the Korea Cup summary, so I moved them to corresponding matches in each year. I want to erase the video links of the summary like the format of other competition articles, but the user who added them wants to leave them.-- Pinineeon ( talk) 16:22, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
I think that FIFA World Cup or other famous sports tournament summary tables don't need video information. Because There are so many match information including text information and video information
But Korea Cup's video information is very rare and precious and usefulBecause Korea Cup is old tournament and there isn't enough match information including official match report. For example, We can find player information through video
In conclusion, Korea Cup article need video information.
In addition, We are living in the age of videos and images. But Wikipedia only stick to text information.
I hope that wikipedia keep up with our fast moving world. Footwiks ( talk) 15:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
I've edited this template a few times to remove the large section on the 2022 World Cup qualifying campaign and create a cohesive Team Image section as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/National teams however it continues to get reverted by a user without a login. Rather than 3RR I wanted to flag it here.
My amended version can be found here: Special:Permalink/1014124281
If however I'm in the wrong and should just leave it, please let me know! Felixsv7 ( talk) 16:29, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
You people come in and completely change a template for editors that have been working on the page for years. Your template has NOT been agreed upon but by a few wikipedia users, I will continue to revert it because I have been editing that page for years and will continue to edit it for years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:3001:276F:0:90EC:4495:CE29:DA38 ( talk) 19:20, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
And I have made an account now so that your bias towards unregistered users won't continue. Like I said, I have been editing this page for years and will continue to do so. Bihnt123 ( talk) 19:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi all. Just over from Wikiproject Cricket. We're trying to find out some more information on an obscure Hampshire cricketer from 1900. Our G. Bull is called George and came from Andover. In 1905, a George Bull played for Andover F.C.. Would anyone know of any website similar to Cricket Archive, where there might be a profile lurking for Bull? StickyWicket ( talk) 19:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Help me to improve this page please Dr Salvus 14:40, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Please help me to improve the page Dr Salvus 16:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
Does this article need writing the list of 1930–1974 Golden, Silver, and Bronze Ball, and the list of 1930–1990 All Star Team? They do not have reliable sources. The Golden Ball was officially presented since 1982, and only Kempes was unofficially selected in 1978. The All-Star Team was also selected since 1994.-- Pinineeon ( talk) 02:25, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Please can somebody have a word with @ Timmy96: - an editor who only edits once in a blue moon, and in doing so adds tens and tens of thousands of bites to articles, the majority of which appears to be routine/mundane match and goal commentary (which is therefore inappropriate). My attempt to clean up the Mohammed Abu article (including correcting spelling and grammar) has simply been reverted. Giant Snowman 14:42, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
This is @
Timmy96: responding. I rarely respond to this page but I am responding that I am very unhappy with the
Giant
Snowman's changes. I worked really hard to find sources from Norwegian, American and English websites. At least, re-check the sources that I added before removing it. They could be very useful to back up the information.
User:Timmy96 14:56, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
I don't find it too bad to be honest. The bytes count is huge but that's due to lots of properly formatted refs. As for content, it's about one small paragraph for each season which reads OK to me - it could definitely do with some tidying up and maybe some of the descriptions could include less detail, but I wouldn't describe it as ridiculously excessive, OK the player is not particularly famous but it didn't make me cringe to read it due to the level of padding-out, which I have come across in the past. Crowsus ( talk) 16:27, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
I haven't read the article contents before, currently, or after the reverting, but there was this discussion earlier this month about what should be included. Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football/Archive_139#Is_this_too_much_detail? RedPatchBoy ( talk) 16:45, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
I note that @ Struway2: has just taken the chop (removing nearly 17k) to Timmy96's past expansion of the Sam Cosgrove article (after I took about 25k out back in January). Giant Snowman 12:39, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
That means a lot of me what you said. I know I am not a perfect editor or in fact, person, but I do feel what's best to improve the article. I edited Wikipedia because I can't stand there and do nothing if nothing has been changed. If nobody going to edit the Wikipedia, then I am going to do it myself... depending on my schedule. I do admit I don't pay attention to the bytes count. When I edit a Wikipedia article, it would be all at once, from the beginning to the end. For me, it takes days for me to edit a Wikipedia article and save my work on the Word Document once the day comes to an end and then resume the next day until I finish adding the information that I can find. Whenever I look for the website, I make sure save the website by using the Internet Machine Archive for future viewing should the web page disappear. User:Timmy96 21:34, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
This user has created 7 pages: 4 have been deleted and 2 are currently in AfD. It seems they don't understand that their articles are being deleted because the subjects aren't notable, and continue to create non-notable people (as well as having been warned on six separate occasions on their tak page for various other disruptive editing). They have never engaged in any discussion as well. Nehme 1499 22:30, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Dr Salvus, GiantSnowman, Nehme1499 - seems like they're continuing to repost the same barely sourced NFOOTBALL-failing BLPs. I'm presuming they won't stop until they're all salted. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 13:33, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello all. I'm just in the process of writing up 1991 Football League Third Division play-off Final and a reviewer at GAN has asked the very reasonable question about what determined that Grimsby finished above Bolton, goals scored or goal difference? Now, before someone says "it doesn't matter" because Grimsby were superior in both, there does seem to be a distinct lack of WP:RS across the project relating to what determines the positions in the league for a given season. Can anyone help? Cheers. The Rambling Man ( Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 07:25, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Seasons were it had an impact, for those interested (definite football quiz knowledge):
Worth 10 minutes of my time to remember that and the ITV Digital debacle. Koncorde ( talk) 19:51, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
What are the rules on articles for reserve teams of professional clubs? Especially in those countries where they are in the league pyramid system but are barred from national cup competitions and national divisions? Abcmaxx ( talk) 14:57, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Do we need Category:Republic of Ireland international footballers from Northern Ireland? Notwithstanding the complex political history in Ireland, how is this really any different to e.g. Category:Scotland international footballers from England or similar? Giant Snowman 20:56, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi. Help me to switch all collapsible tables in normal tables in the pages about Coupe de France preliminary rounds Dr Salvus 21:51, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Tie no | Home team (Tier) | Score | Away team (Tier) |
---|---|---|---|
1. |
![]() |
2–2 (4–3 p) | FC Sud (R3)
![]() |
Adopted by Gricehead
Tie no | Home team (Tier) | Score | Away team (Tier) |
---|---|---|---|
1. |
![]() |
2–2 (4–3 p) | FC Sud (R3)
![]() |
Adopted by Stevie fae Scotland
It is necessary to clarify what and which format to adopt. I also invite other users to choose which format to use between the two. I would prefer the one adopted by Gricehead. Dr Salvus 21:37, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
No flags and SFS's format. Nehme 1499 22:51, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
If this page were created, it would be a violation of WP: NFOOTY. I'm not sure though if he would also violate WP: GNG, as he won the 2020 FIFA Fair Play Award and became famous as a result. Could this page be created? Dr Salvus 12:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
@ Bogic: has created a lot of pages about non-notable friendly matches. Can you help me locate them and nominate them for deletion? Dr Salvus 18:03, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
I've been editing the Battle of Bramall Lane article, and in my research I've found a couple of other matches abandoned due to a shortage of players. Two I've mentioned in the article. But it seems out of place, and it got me thinking, would an article titled something like " List of abandoned association football matches" be acceptable? It's not common for games to be abandoned, but it's happened often enough that I think this article maybe has merit? Would appreciate any advice or input. ItsKesha ( talk) 15:19, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
Didn't we come to a conclusion not so long ago that flags in match articles are absolutely fine? With that in mind, can anyone offer a decent defence for User:The Rambling Man's removal of the flags from the 2019 FA Cup Final article? – Pee Jay 19:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
However, some editors feel that some tables such as those containing sports statistics (example) are easier to read ifand[[|]] is used throughout.
If a sportsperson has not competed at the international level, then the eligibility rules of the international sport governing body (such as IRB, FIFA, IAAF, etc.) should be used. If these rules allow a player to represent two or more nations, then a reliable source should be used to show who the sportsperson has chosen to represent.These concerns are all in MOS:FLAG. I'm still not seeing how it "fails." SportingFlyer T· C 21:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
However, some editors feel that some tables such as those containing sports statistics (example) are easier to read ifNehme 1499 21:43, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[[|]] is used throughout.
It's probably worth noting that articles which have no quality standards applied to them, i.e. below GA-class, have no requirement to comply with WP:MOS and as such poor practice like the use of standalone flags in inappropriate circumstances is all too commonplace. But articles which are going through WP:FAC need to demonstrably meet all facets of MOS, and MOS:FLAG is part of that. Finally, just because it might not have happened in the past, it doesn't mean it should happen now or in the future. The Rambling Man ( Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 20:59, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
Are the unofficial training matches between the senior and the under-21 team listed at "Results and fixtures" section in the national team articles, even though none of the sources (soccerway, soccerbase, ESPN, Sky Sports, national-football-teams, FIFA, worldfootball.net, RSSSF etc.) list those fixtures? Because some people are keep adding those matches back to the articles with apparent rational "the game was played, so it must be listed", which makes no sense. Snowflake91 ( talk) 13:27, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Editor @ Walter Görlitz: reverted this edit stating in the edit summary: "Kits without logos are prefered for reasons of copyright". My question is, how much can be considered "copyrighted" a so small depiction of a logo? (in the specific case of the England jersey, the FA and Umbro logos are so small that blaming "copyright" here does not make sense. Moreover, files like this are included into the de minimis criteria and hosted on commons because of that.
I'd like to read more opinions from other editors so they may clarify the issue and I'll know how to proceed in similar cases. Fma12 ( talk) 18:30, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
On a related note, the graphics should have a high degree of transparency as well so they can be greatly utilised, as stated in template:Football kit/pattern list#No transparency. For example, there's no point for half of those in commons:Category:Football kit templates/Liechtenstein national football team, just change the background colour in the kitbox. VEO one five 15:10, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Two things to ask, have they played in the Polish cup to qualify for an article, as I couldn't find that, and if so, should the article be moved to TKS Skawinka Skawina? Govvy ( talk) 09:08, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Is this page necessary? And if so, it should be moved to 2021 international association football friendlies (or something similar). Nehme 1499 18:19, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
There seems to be a lot going to AfD, I am a bit concerned we maybe wiping out that information when it can easily be transcribed to a clubs season article, a sentence in club history page. I feel it's good to show what a club did that summer, winter and to ask those that nominate an article to make sure the same information is associated on another page. Cheers. Govvy ( talk) 09:40, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Strange one here - every few weeks a new account will pop up (nearly all with the format of a few letters followed by a few numbers), change the stats incorrectly, and then disappear again. What is going on - socking? Giant Snowman 09:22, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
The disambiguation page keeps getting changed to a redirect and messed around with. Anyone else able to help out? Govvy ( talk) 12:13, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Surely this is a continuation of Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 139#The Home of Football. JorgeLaArdilla ( talk) 12:52, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi. The FC Andorra, football club from Andorra. They play in Segunda División B on Spain. My question is about the categories for the players, they count as "expatriate sportspeople in Andorra" or "expatriate sportspeople in Spain", and "Expatriate footballers in Andorra" or "Expatriate footballers in Spain", or just maybe both. Grettings. Pincheira22 ( talk) 17:03, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Not the right place for them to request it, but does this represent a change in notability for Mukhtar_Abayomi_Sanusi? Eddie891 Talk Work 21:42, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
This query comes about from Viljami Sinisalo, an Aston Villa youth player on loan at Ayr United currently. He made one emergency league (3rd tier) appearance for his Finnish club FC Espoo at age 15 in 2017, this is classed as a 'pro debut'. Around a year later, he signed a youth contract (not professional) at Aston Villa and then spent 2 years and three months there as a U18 and U23 player before joining Ayr on loan this season on a full season loan. He is still not on professional terms as per this recent article [23].
My query is that this is a player without a professional contract who has played youth football for Aston Villa for 2.5 seasons, he has never been in a match-day senior squad for them, however his infobox shows that his youth career ended on that day in 2017 as a 15-year old when he played 90 minutes for FC Espoo's seniors and his 'senior career' at Aston Villa started in 2018 when he signed for them. My gut instinct is that this is not a true reporting of the facts and that you should be able list Aston Villa in this player's youth career section as that is factually what happened. The purpose of the infobox should be to present the information clearly and in this case it's not. Can we form a consensus for the niche case of when a player 'returns to youth football' that that second spell of youth football is included in their youth career infobox section? Does anyone have a strong argument the other way? I have looked up the past history of discussion on this topic and it seems like there is not a strong consensus or guidance either way, just a currently agreed status quo. Mountaincirque talk 10:47, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks all for the responses. Can I first off thanks to @ RedPatchBoy for the RfC details, @ GiantSnowman, your opinion would be valued on that too. I agree that the quite brief discussions shared by @ Nehme1499 above don't really provide consensus either way for me, seeming to be split 50/50. Based on this discussion today I can see six editors, including myself, for being open to exceptions to allowing overlap of senior/youth career when a player returns to youth football after their pro debut, such as Viljami Sinisalo, with one editor preferring the previously used approach of always keeping clubs in the 'Senior Career' section after the pro debut, regardless of any extenuating circumstances or lack of a pro contract.
How to proceed from here? I agree with RedPatchBoy that an RfC with limited options would be the way to go but frankly I don't have the time to manage that myself. Based on the previous RfC it seems to me that there is already enough leeway here to allow cases such as Viljami Sinisalo to be amended, especially as 'allowing overlap of senior/youth' was the most popular option in the most recent RfC on this (despite not getting an overall majority). Mountaincirque talk 15:42, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
I've had my edits changed a few times by an editor who feels like a club's name can only appear once in an article. So instead they will write and "he left the XYZ Stadium that year" using obscure stadiums. If it was saying the Camp Nou/Old Trafford/etc, I'd say okay, but an obscure stadium for a mid-table non-top league, who would know those stadiums. For example, I got my edit changed here (accusing me of stuff I never even did - I never touched spacings, categories, etc) from "In May 2019, Braga announced Ferreira would be leaving the club when his contract expired the following month" to "In May 2019, Braga announced Ferreira would be leaving the Estádio Municipal de Braga when his contract expired the following month" because writing the stadium name was important because the word club apparently "appears 500 times" (it actually appears twice in the whole article). At least that stadium had the city name in it, I've had this user revert to even more obscure names in the past because they felt a team name couldn't be used more than once in a multi-paragraph section. Feels more like "Trivia" that actually improving the article. Thoughts? I also got passive aggressive and over-the-top edit summary responses such as this because I wrote a player's first name in a an image caption - I haven't even been engaging with this editor. I'm just editing articles for players from Canadian teams or Canadian themselves, which is where I'm from, that I normally do RedPatchBoy ( talk) 23:02, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Braga announced Ferreira would be leaving the Estádio Municipal de Braga when his contract expired the following month.is poor, but "the club" is also redundant as
Braga announced Ferreira would leave when his contract expired the following month.says the same thing, or even better
Braga announced Ferreira's contract would not be renewed at the end of the 2019 season making him a free agent. Ferreira was without a club until January 2020 when he signed a short term deal with Belenenses SADwhich conveys even more context. So the user isn't actually improving the structure of the article in making it more complex, nor are they conveying the information more clearly. Koncorde ( talk) 08:02, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello all, just a reminder that a number of featured article candidates are currently running which are member articles of the football wikiproject and could use some reviews! Those in need:
Have a good Easter weekend all. The Rambling Man ( Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 07:55, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
How are we treating football related articles for Abkhazia region? I've just prodded two club pages for deletion, ( Football Club Abazg Sukhum and Football Club Kiaraz Pitsunda). I am not sure if Abkhazian Premier League is running independently away from the main country of Georgia or not. It feels somewhat a little more complicated, with a few issues when I look into it. Govvy ( talk) 11:24, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
Where a club has both a "managers" category and "non-playing staff" category, I believe it makes sense for the former to be a subcategory of the latter, since managers are a subset of non-playing staff. However in England at least, only three clubs (Middlesbrough, Sunderland and Sheffield United) currently follow this structure (those with the blue triangles under Category:Football non-playing staff in England by club). Let me know what you think of this structure; if it seems sensible then I will start to apply the same to other teams. -- Jameboy ( talk) 16:44, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
Hello. As more articles of players that have played or play for the PSG reserve side since 2019 emerge, the question of what to call the team becomes bigger. Basically, in 2019, PSG got rid of its "B team". The amateur "C team" got promoted to the fifth tier the same year the B team was deleted. So, since 2019, the PSG reserve team has been playing in the fifth tier, but is composed solely of amateur footballers, and is not linked to the first team the same way the former B team was. The final step before becoming pro is now the U19 team. My question is what to call this "new" reserve team. Should it be called Paris Saint-Germain C, Paris Saint-Germain Reserves, Paris Saint-Germain Amateurs, or Paris Saint-Germain B? I personally prefer Paris Saint-Germain C. The only players I know of that have played for this team that are on Wikipedia are Lucas Bernadou, Cédric N'Koum, and Gaël N'Lundulu. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 21:27, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello. Which image would you recommend for the Jean-Pierre Adams article? This one or this one? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 18:16, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
There's a dispute going on here as to whether a table of "Winners by city/town" is a valid inclusion. Bringing it here to get a wider consenseus. Pinging PeeJay and Cheesy McGee -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 08:38, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
I know the above link refers to an established consensus at the Snooker WikiProject, but I've also seen this applied to footy articles with match results as well. I'm curious about whether this WikiProject already has an established consensus for this as well, and if not, whether we should try to establish one, as I do agree that live score updates do fall under WP:NOTNEWS. Jalen Folf (talk) 21:08, 31 March 2021 (UTC)