This page has been created to try to focus the discussion concerning the WikiProject main page layout redesign. It is a very long page with lots of sections. To avoid edit conflicts, you should add your comments by editing a smaller section at a time, and save frequently. Be careful to add your comments in the appropriate area, since it can be a little difficult in some places to see what connects to which image.
To directly view and compare the sandbox pages, see Sandbox 2 and Sandbox 3.
Update: As of mid-September 2013, many of the proposed changes below have been implemented on the project's main page.
I decided to be bold and close the (somewhat contentious) discussions from the main talk page, archive them here, and start a new (hopefully more productive) conversation here. The original discussions leading up to this point is archived below. Please do not make changes to the archived discussions. New discussions go farther down on this page. — Willscrlt ( “Talk” ) 08:23, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
Click show to view the comments within the discussions herein
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Main page & Project pagesSeveral months ago there was a discussion on about the direction of the Project., and I raised some points that I felt needed to be addressed, I copied them here, below:
Since that time Northamerica1000 and I have been working on some of the points and have made some significant progress in updating them. Here are some stuff that has been done:
Now, in regards to the project main page, I raised the following issues:
In regards to this, I have been working for the past few months designing a completely new front page for the project. It takes into account the problems I identified with the project page and updates it to match new formatting of the rest of the pages. I plan to take it live on September 1st so that I can get comments regarding it, and see if the project likes the new design. I am also looking to restructure the various task forces into a more coherent structure and make them more accessible to a wider audience. That will be happening during the autumn and winter months, school permitting. Thanks for the input that many have given over the past few months and I hope you like the changes that have been made. -- Jeremy ( blah blah • I did it!) 08:13, 30 August 2013 (UTC) It's live!Okay, I have put the new main page up. Please take a look at it and give me your opinions! I have seen a couple of areas that need to be added and I'll work on them tout suis! -- Jeremy ( blah blah • I did it!) 08:33, 1 September 2013 (UTC) I apparently wasn't clear when I deployed this, and I sorry if there was confusion as to what I am doing. Here is the reason for why I updated the page the way I did.
The reason I am doing this is because some problems cannot be identified in the sandbox. I need this to in the place it is designed to be to insure that it works the way it is supposed to. If you come across any issues that need to be addressed, please leave a message here and I will try to find a solution ASAP. Please note that I work nights and usually am unavailable between 5:00 pm and 1:00 am Eastern Standard Time in the US. To compare the two pages, I have placed a copy of the main page as it was on August 31 in the main sandbox, here.
Thanks for you time and I appreciate any help and advice you can give! -- Jeremy ( blah blah • I did it!) 07:20, 2 September 2013 (UTC) Issues
SuggestionsComments
Discussion
Here's a review and my comments about content at the project's Sandbox 2:
Dislikes:
Page Layout - alternate proposal 1 at Sandbox 3
Discussion 2
|
I am adding this section to give other contributors an idea of the reasons behind the design of the proposed Mina Page layout.
![]() | Here is what I have been up to:
|
Based upon a discussion from May 2013 about the direction of this Project ( located here), I have been working on complete redo of the whole set of project pages. I have done quite a bit of work, there is still a lot to do. My new design for the main page is under construction and is not ready for the limelight and won't be for a bit of time. Some of the the stuff Will brought up below I had an idea about already. The reason some of the stuff that is in North's design isn't in mine is because I have moved it to its own page, grouping related things together.
When putting this concept together, I tried to establish a set of goals for the design. They are:
Here is how the site has been organized,
Note - The design is partially based on the structure of
WP:Military History:
My main page design will eventually have all of these things included, but is incomplete at this time. I am also contemplating making each of the various boxes used on my design into a template to allow quick reformatting of any page on the fly or allow there usage on multiple pages without duplicating code every where. They would be located on a sub-page of Wikipedia:WikiProject Food and drink/templates. I should also move the other templates I created there is well for consistency sake. -- Jeremy ( blah blah • I did it!) 20:17, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
![]() | Note:
Sandbox 3 has been significantly changed and updated as of this post.
Some new changes include:
|
Update: I've made some significant changes to the Sandbox 3 page, incorporating some of User:Jerem43's ideas in Sandox 2 and User:Willscrlt's and User:Matticusmadness' ideas per commentary below while also utilizing some of mine. The layout has significantly changed, so please check it out and feel free to provide input. Importantly, please note that most of the comments below are in reference to a previous version of the page; here's the approximate diff page upon which they were based.
I like this layout a great deal, and I appreciate the work Jerem43 has done at Sandbox 2; some design elements there have been incorporated into Sandbox 3. Northamerica1000 (talk) 10:08, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
At the time this subpage was created, there were two similar layouts that were being considered for acceptance as the new main page for the WikiProject. I ( User:Willscrlt) believe that they both have good points and flaws. It is very difficult to compare the pages in a productive manner, even with multiple windows open on multiple monitors. Therefore, I took screen captures of the both pages, chopping the pages into comparable chunks. I will refer to these layouts as Sandbox2 (or SB2 for short) and Sandbox3] (SB3), which refer to the name of the pages used to showcase the competing layouts.
For each layout, there will be a place that you can identify what you feel are "strengths" or "pros" (the good things) about the layout, and "weaknesses" or "cons" (the not-so-good stuff). Remember to provide constructive criticism of the layout (not the person who designed it or its supporters/detractors).
Also, if you see a problem, try to recommend one or more possible solutions that would fix the perceived problem. If you like something, then explain what you like about it, not just a vague "I like it" or "it's good".
The introduction page identifies the WikiProject and welcomes visitors. Below is the top of the page in Sandbox 2.
Below is the top of the page in Sandbox 3.
Below is section #2 in Sandbox 2. This section introduces the WikiProject to people who are not very familiar with it. It should inform as well as inspire people to join the team.
Below is Section #2 of Sandbox 3.
Below is the membership section in Sandbox 2. The two layouts diverge at this point. SB2 includes the Membership (or more correctly, the "participants" since there is no "membership" in WikiProjects) of the WikiProject next. SB3 makes this the second to last section.
Below is the membership section in Sandbox 3.
As I said further up, Having a list of people showing may make someone realise a user they value is in it and this join up. Pretty much what Will said (again) MM (Report findings) (Past espionage) 10:42, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Below is the contribution section in Sandbox 2. Both layouts agree that contribution should be next. This is the part of the page that tells the participants how to get involved, and shows them how well we are meeting our goals.
Below is the contribution section in Sandbox 3.
{{
Tasks}}
template has all of the options in place to list everything for articles, and project tasks that don't fit into any categories in the template could be placed in the "other" section of the template. Therefore, I support merging the two tasks lists into one master list.
Northamerica1000
(talk)
07:26, 6 September 2013 (UTC)SB2 barely touches on this section. It gives a general overview with regard to the quality of the articles in Section #4 "Contribution" (see above). SB3 goes into great depth on the topic, providing article alerts and several lists of pages. I had to break the section into two screen captures just to get it all in here.
Below is the Articles section in Sandbox 3.
SB2 has nothing corresponding to this section. SB3 displays an expandable list of related categories. Below is the Categories section in Sandbox 3.
SB3 barely touches on this section. It gives a list of related WikiProjects in Section #4 "Contribution" (see above). SB2 includes the same information and then goes into more depth on the topic. Below is the Related section in Sandbox 2.
Below is the Tools section in Sandbox 3. SB2 has nothing corresponding to this section. SB3 displays links to additional resources that might be of interest to participants. Note that the "Key Wikipedia Policies and Guidelines" navbox is closed by default. I opened it for the screen capture so that we could see what links it contains.
Now that you have looked at these layouts piece-by-piece, please add your overall impressions or general feelings about how you would like the whole of the page to look, work, and function. Also, if you have any suggestions that were not already covered above, please include them here.
Let's give this one month (I know that feels like an eternity in Wiki-time), that is until the end of September 2013, for WikiProject participants to provide feedback. Sometime after September 15th, perhaps interested participants could work together to start Sandbox #4 that begins to implement the suggestions proposed here. Then, after the discussions close at the end of September, we can take 10 days or so to critique SB4 and make any final tweaks in a new Sandbox 5. Assuming that everything goes smoothly and people work nicely together, we can !vote on adoption of SB5 for a week, and then implement it in mid-October. Again, this may seem like a lengthy process, but I think that slowing the pace down and focusing on getting as much feedback as possible will help to remove egos from the equation and turn out something that we all can be proud of. — Willscrlt ( “Talk” ) 05:23, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
Could we please have the article alerts returned to a normal text size? It's less legible and the column breaks are disruptive. (I'm not sure where to put this comment, because this discussion is gargantuan and not something I care to troll through in full, so feel free to move this to wherever you need it to be.) Ibadibam ( talk) 22:41, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
This page has been created to try to focus the discussion concerning the WikiProject main page layout redesign. It is a very long page with lots of sections. To avoid edit conflicts, you should add your comments by editing a smaller section at a time, and save frequently. Be careful to add your comments in the appropriate area, since it can be a little difficult in some places to see what connects to which image.
To directly view and compare the sandbox pages, see Sandbox 2 and Sandbox 3.
Update: As of mid-September 2013, many of the proposed changes below have been implemented on the project's main page.
I decided to be bold and close the (somewhat contentious) discussions from the main talk page, archive them here, and start a new (hopefully more productive) conversation here. The original discussions leading up to this point is archived below. Please do not make changes to the archived discussions. New discussions go farther down on this page. — Willscrlt ( “Talk” ) 08:23, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
Click show to view the comments within the discussions herein
| ||||
---|---|---|---|---|
Main page & Project pagesSeveral months ago there was a discussion on about the direction of the Project., and I raised some points that I felt needed to be addressed, I copied them here, below:
Since that time Northamerica1000 and I have been working on some of the points and have made some significant progress in updating them. Here are some stuff that has been done:
Now, in regards to the project main page, I raised the following issues:
In regards to this, I have been working for the past few months designing a completely new front page for the project. It takes into account the problems I identified with the project page and updates it to match new formatting of the rest of the pages. I plan to take it live on September 1st so that I can get comments regarding it, and see if the project likes the new design. I am also looking to restructure the various task forces into a more coherent structure and make them more accessible to a wider audience. That will be happening during the autumn and winter months, school permitting. Thanks for the input that many have given over the past few months and I hope you like the changes that have been made. -- Jeremy ( blah blah • I did it!) 08:13, 30 August 2013 (UTC) It's live!Okay, I have put the new main page up. Please take a look at it and give me your opinions! I have seen a couple of areas that need to be added and I'll work on them tout suis! -- Jeremy ( blah blah • I did it!) 08:33, 1 September 2013 (UTC) I apparently wasn't clear when I deployed this, and I sorry if there was confusion as to what I am doing. Here is the reason for why I updated the page the way I did.
The reason I am doing this is because some problems cannot be identified in the sandbox. I need this to in the place it is designed to be to insure that it works the way it is supposed to. If you come across any issues that need to be addressed, please leave a message here and I will try to find a solution ASAP. Please note that I work nights and usually am unavailable between 5:00 pm and 1:00 am Eastern Standard Time in the US. To compare the two pages, I have placed a copy of the main page as it was on August 31 in the main sandbox, here.
Thanks for you time and I appreciate any help and advice you can give! -- Jeremy ( blah blah • I did it!) 07:20, 2 September 2013 (UTC) Issues
SuggestionsComments
Discussion
Here's a review and my comments about content at the project's Sandbox 2:
Dislikes:
Page Layout - alternate proposal 1 at Sandbox 3
Discussion 2
|
I am adding this section to give other contributors an idea of the reasons behind the design of the proposed Mina Page layout.
![]() | Here is what I have been up to:
|
Based upon a discussion from May 2013 about the direction of this Project ( located here), I have been working on complete redo of the whole set of project pages. I have done quite a bit of work, there is still a lot to do. My new design for the main page is under construction and is not ready for the limelight and won't be for a bit of time. Some of the the stuff Will brought up below I had an idea about already. The reason some of the stuff that is in North's design isn't in mine is because I have moved it to its own page, grouping related things together.
When putting this concept together, I tried to establish a set of goals for the design. They are:
Here is how the site has been organized,
Note - The design is partially based on the structure of
WP:Military History:
My main page design will eventually have all of these things included, but is incomplete at this time. I am also contemplating making each of the various boxes used on my design into a template to allow quick reformatting of any page on the fly or allow there usage on multiple pages without duplicating code every where. They would be located on a sub-page of Wikipedia:WikiProject Food and drink/templates. I should also move the other templates I created there is well for consistency sake. -- Jeremy ( blah blah • I did it!) 20:17, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
![]() | Note:
Sandbox 3 has been significantly changed and updated as of this post.
Some new changes include:
|
Update: I've made some significant changes to the Sandbox 3 page, incorporating some of User:Jerem43's ideas in Sandox 2 and User:Willscrlt's and User:Matticusmadness' ideas per commentary below while also utilizing some of mine. The layout has significantly changed, so please check it out and feel free to provide input. Importantly, please note that most of the comments below are in reference to a previous version of the page; here's the approximate diff page upon which they were based.
I like this layout a great deal, and I appreciate the work Jerem43 has done at Sandbox 2; some design elements there have been incorporated into Sandbox 3. Northamerica1000 (talk) 10:08, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
At the time this subpage was created, there were two similar layouts that were being considered for acceptance as the new main page for the WikiProject. I ( User:Willscrlt) believe that they both have good points and flaws. It is very difficult to compare the pages in a productive manner, even with multiple windows open on multiple monitors. Therefore, I took screen captures of the both pages, chopping the pages into comparable chunks. I will refer to these layouts as Sandbox2 (or SB2 for short) and Sandbox3] (SB3), which refer to the name of the pages used to showcase the competing layouts.
For each layout, there will be a place that you can identify what you feel are "strengths" or "pros" (the good things) about the layout, and "weaknesses" or "cons" (the not-so-good stuff). Remember to provide constructive criticism of the layout (not the person who designed it or its supporters/detractors).
Also, if you see a problem, try to recommend one or more possible solutions that would fix the perceived problem. If you like something, then explain what you like about it, not just a vague "I like it" or "it's good".
The introduction page identifies the WikiProject and welcomes visitors. Below is the top of the page in Sandbox 2.
Below is the top of the page in Sandbox 3.
Below is section #2 in Sandbox 2. This section introduces the WikiProject to people who are not very familiar with it. It should inform as well as inspire people to join the team.
Below is Section #2 of Sandbox 3.
Below is the membership section in Sandbox 2. The two layouts diverge at this point. SB2 includes the Membership (or more correctly, the "participants" since there is no "membership" in WikiProjects) of the WikiProject next. SB3 makes this the second to last section.
Below is the membership section in Sandbox 3.
As I said further up, Having a list of people showing may make someone realise a user they value is in it and this join up. Pretty much what Will said (again) MM (Report findings) (Past espionage) 10:42, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Below is the contribution section in Sandbox 2. Both layouts agree that contribution should be next. This is the part of the page that tells the participants how to get involved, and shows them how well we are meeting our goals.
Below is the contribution section in Sandbox 3.
{{
Tasks}}
template has all of the options in place to list everything for articles, and project tasks that don't fit into any categories in the template could be placed in the "other" section of the template. Therefore, I support merging the two tasks lists into one master list.
Northamerica1000
(talk)
07:26, 6 September 2013 (UTC)SB2 barely touches on this section. It gives a general overview with regard to the quality of the articles in Section #4 "Contribution" (see above). SB3 goes into great depth on the topic, providing article alerts and several lists of pages. I had to break the section into two screen captures just to get it all in here.
Below is the Articles section in Sandbox 3.
SB2 has nothing corresponding to this section. SB3 displays an expandable list of related categories. Below is the Categories section in Sandbox 3.
SB3 barely touches on this section. It gives a list of related WikiProjects in Section #4 "Contribution" (see above). SB2 includes the same information and then goes into more depth on the topic. Below is the Related section in Sandbox 2.
Below is the Tools section in Sandbox 3. SB2 has nothing corresponding to this section. SB3 displays links to additional resources that might be of interest to participants. Note that the "Key Wikipedia Policies and Guidelines" navbox is closed by default. I opened it for the screen capture so that we could see what links it contains.
Now that you have looked at these layouts piece-by-piece, please add your overall impressions or general feelings about how you would like the whole of the page to look, work, and function. Also, if you have any suggestions that were not already covered above, please include them here.
Let's give this one month (I know that feels like an eternity in Wiki-time), that is until the end of September 2013, for WikiProject participants to provide feedback. Sometime after September 15th, perhaps interested participants could work together to start Sandbox #4 that begins to implement the suggestions proposed here. Then, after the discussions close at the end of September, we can take 10 days or so to critique SB4 and make any final tweaks in a new Sandbox 5. Assuming that everything goes smoothly and people work nicely together, we can !vote on adoption of SB5 for a week, and then implement it in mid-October. Again, this may seem like a lengthy process, but I think that slowing the pace down and focusing on getting as much feedback as possible will help to remove egos from the equation and turn out something that we all can be proud of. — Willscrlt ( “Talk” ) 05:23, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
Could we please have the article alerts returned to a normal text size? It's less legible and the column breaks are disruptive. (I'm not sure where to put this comment, because this discussion is gargantuan and not something I care to troll through in full, so feel free to move this to wherever you need it to be.) Ibadibam ( talk) 22:41, 18 September 2013 (UTC)