This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | → | Archive 20 |
Why was the page moved to "Titans (comics)", since in almost all of their incarnations (including their current one) they're known as the Teen Titans? -- DrBat 23:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Someone has been adding this bit of made-up minutiae from the Marvel Handbook all over the superhero character descriptions. This seems way overboard in terms of fancruft and of no real encyclopedic value to anyone outside comics. It's not particularly factual -- comics writers don't ask themselves, "How much does this weigh, how much does that weight?" Adding these figures also begs the question of, how much is too much, in terms of stats? Are we going to list every made-up height, weight, eye color, etc., like some encyclopedia DMV?
For consistency, if nothing else, we need to get a guideline consensus. If we're going to include how much made-up weight a character can lift, then we should also include their level of durability, speed, intelligence, etc. I don't believe we should. But if the conensus is to include all this minutiae, let's not draw an arbitrary line: Why is strength more notable than durability or speed? -- Tenebrae 15:17, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
The copyright question is paramount regardless of any other debate. Since there is some question at all, we can't continue this conversation without an admin weighing in. I've asked this on the Wikipedia talk:Copyrights/Can I use... page for input. Let's pause on the debate until this is resolved. - Markeer 16:43, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
We had a similar discussion here and have a page here, and have a previous consensus that we avoid all OHOTMU/WWITDCU stats/pictures completely. -- Jamdav86 17:40, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
As an admin and lawyer, I believe the above statements that "facts" within fiction are actually copyrightable expression is correct. I posted a case on the WP:COPY talk page a while ago, one in which the Seinfeld Aptitute Test, a book of trivia questions about the show, was found to be a copyright infringement because by copying "facts" from the show (really just describing incidents and dialogue) it substantially copied creative expression and did not sufficiently transform it to constitute fair use.
Though our intention is to provide information rather than entertainment (as in the case), by making an encyclopedia article about a fictitious subject and using fiction that only exists in another encyclopedia article (such as OHOTMU, Who's Who, etc.), we haven't transformed the expression in the slightest, and so can't justify fair use of it. Postdlf 16:27, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
So, to sum up, we can't say "Mister X can lift 25 tons" b/c that's copying from (for example) the OHOTMU (a competing product) and has never actually been said in the comics themselves, but we can say "Mister X possesses superhuman strength, as shown when he effortlessly juggled three elephants in Amazing Mister X #42"...?
Could we say "Mister X appears to have a maximum weight limit of 100 tons, as he was shown to be straining a great deal while dragging a tractor trailer loaded with 100 tons of Unbelievium in Amazing Mr. X #43"? Or would that be considered Original Research? -- Dr Archeville 20:58, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I've been working on several story arcs of popular comics, and using the comic series templates, but is there ore should there be one for important story arcs? Bradtcordeiro 21:07, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I recently recreated Phyla-Vell's page (which was deleted before for having a copyvio biography). Would anyone mind filling it up? -- DrBat 17:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I was just reading the Superman article today and it struck me that his comic book history is given far too much space and prominence. Certainly the emphasis on comic book history is appropriate and necessary in most comic book characters pages, but characters like Supes, Batman, Spider-Man and an arguable number of others, have long outgrown their comic book origins to become multi-media phenomenons. At the moment the articles are very bitty - each character's history is broken up into separate media sections which fail to adequately depict how the different interpretations may have influenced the concept's development. Shouldnt a general history section be the most prominent history section for each of these characters? one which would summarise all the major events in the characters multimedia history in the proper context with one another. For instance, Superman's history would mention Action Comics #1 and subsequent comics which introduced key Superman concepts, then mention how his first media adaptation was the radio serial which also introduced important concepts, then mention the first physical depiction of the character at the 1940 Worlds Fair and then on to a mention of the movie serials etc. Though I understand and share an attachment to the trivia of these character's comic book histories I think that we should acknowledge that comics are no longer the only influence on their development (if they ever were). Their comic book history could then be briefly summarised on the main page and expanded on in a spin-off page as is usually the practice with the details of other media adaptations. Hueysheridan 18:14, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Is there really any point bothering with this? The articles don't seem to change much in their nomination time, and the clock runs over for a fortnight before anyone bothers to change it, if at all.
Can we have a straw poll of who is willing to change the nominated articles? If there is less than 15, then, unless the small group were really avid in changing the article, I'd have to declare it dead. Thoughts? -- Jamdav86 20:06, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
It is collab of the month. The main problem is that no-one seems to be bothered to change it. Therefore, I will state this now: there is no one person that changes it every month, so if it runs out and you notice, I urge you to change the collab notices. Do not stand around and ask "Why isn't anyone doing it?", DO IT YOURSELF PLEASE. -- Jamdav86 10:42, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Alright, we have another go at this. I put up a new collab. Could I please urge the community to nominate, vote, and edit the collabs please? I added the deadline to the template as it may enhance the sense of urgency. -- Jamdav86 13:15, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Here are the past collaborations. Can the project please put them up for featured article nomination, then cross the off and sign them. Thanks. -- Jamdav86 14:10, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Well then obviously the collaboration hasn't worked. The point of the collaboration is to get the nominated articles up to Featured Article status. Therefore these are featured article standard, and all that needs to happen is for the articles to go through the proper channels to recognise them. However, apparently they aren't featured article status even after all the Wikiproject's members have looked, edited and improved them, so it's a waste of time bothering to continue the collab. -- Jamdav86 20:32, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Why was this changed? I fail to see the benefit from removing the notable relatives part of the box. D1Puck1T 20:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that after Ultimate Nightcrawler was merged with consensus, it re-emerged and is back as its own page again. I fear this is going to be a trend with all the other Ultimate versions of characters that were voted to be merged and that people put time and effort into merging them and making the main pages better. I think if we are gonna put the effort into setting up guidelines and voting for consensus we should probably back up what we say should happen. Any ideas of what we could do to prevent them all from re-proliferating wikipedia? Or should we just let them all come back? -- Silver lode 21:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
This article says that the Night Nurse appearing now is a new character. I thought she was the same character from the older comics? Has it ever been stated that these are two separate people? -- DrBat 00:10, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
I have just created an article for Quicken Forbidden, a series published by Cryptic Press and AiT/PlanetLar. In order to flesh it out and make it not a stub, I am tempted to supply issue summaries (there are only 13 issues) and/or a list of minor characters. But I do not want there to be too much fancruft or fluff. I'd like some advice as to what to do with this article, please, and if anyone has anything to add to the main content, please do. Thank you. LordAmeth 12:24, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi to you all, I recently joined the Portal: comics, and I did a major edit to the Eshu (comics). I would like for someone here to have a look at the article, tell me what's missing and how to improve that, so I can complete it and devote my self to other comic book articles.-- Captain ginyu 17:57, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Does someone have a copy of Dark Knight Returns they can dig out and scan? We need an image of the shrine with Jason Todd's uniform in the Batcave for the Jason Todd article, and the most logical place to get it would be its first appearance.
As for the image we have now, it's really low-quality and unsourced. - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire | past ops) 08:32, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | → | Archive 20 |
Why was the page moved to "Titans (comics)", since in almost all of their incarnations (including their current one) they're known as the Teen Titans? -- DrBat 23:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Someone has been adding this bit of made-up minutiae from the Marvel Handbook all over the superhero character descriptions. This seems way overboard in terms of fancruft and of no real encyclopedic value to anyone outside comics. It's not particularly factual -- comics writers don't ask themselves, "How much does this weigh, how much does that weight?" Adding these figures also begs the question of, how much is too much, in terms of stats? Are we going to list every made-up height, weight, eye color, etc., like some encyclopedia DMV?
For consistency, if nothing else, we need to get a guideline consensus. If we're going to include how much made-up weight a character can lift, then we should also include their level of durability, speed, intelligence, etc. I don't believe we should. But if the conensus is to include all this minutiae, let's not draw an arbitrary line: Why is strength more notable than durability or speed? -- Tenebrae 15:17, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
The copyright question is paramount regardless of any other debate. Since there is some question at all, we can't continue this conversation without an admin weighing in. I've asked this on the Wikipedia talk:Copyrights/Can I use... page for input. Let's pause on the debate until this is resolved. - Markeer 16:43, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
We had a similar discussion here and have a page here, and have a previous consensus that we avoid all OHOTMU/WWITDCU stats/pictures completely. -- Jamdav86 17:40, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
As an admin and lawyer, I believe the above statements that "facts" within fiction are actually copyrightable expression is correct. I posted a case on the WP:COPY talk page a while ago, one in which the Seinfeld Aptitute Test, a book of trivia questions about the show, was found to be a copyright infringement because by copying "facts" from the show (really just describing incidents and dialogue) it substantially copied creative expression and did not sufficiently transform it to constitute fair use.
Though our intention is to provide information rather than entertainment (as in the case), by making an encyclopedia article about a fictitious subject and using fiction that only exists in another encyclopedia article (such as OHOTMU, Who's Who, etc.), we haven't transformed the expression in the slightest, and so can't justify fair use of it. Postdlf 16:27, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
So, to sum up, we can't say "Mister X can lift 25 tons" b/c that's copying from (for example) the OHOTMU (a competing product) and has never actually been said in the comics themselves, but we can say "Mister X possesses superhuman strength, as shown when he effortlessly juggled three elephants in Amazing Mister X #42"...?
Could we say "Mister X appears to have a maximum weight limit of 100 tons, as he was shown to be straining a great deal while dragging a tractor trailer loaded with 100 tons of Unbelievium in Amazing Mr. X #43"? Or would that be considered Original Research? -- Dr Archeville 20:58, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I've been working on several story arcs of popular comics, and using the comic series templates, but is there ore should there be one for important story arcs? Bradtcordeiro 21:07, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I recently recreated Phyla-Vell's page (which was deleted before for having a copyvio biography). Would anyone mind filling it up? -- DrBat 17:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I was just reading the Superman article today and it struck me that his comic book history is given far too much space and prominence. Certainly the emphasis on comic book history is appropriate and necessary in most comic book characters pages, but characters like Supes, Batman, Spider-Man and an arguable number of others, have long outgrown their comic book origins to become multi-media phenomenons. At the moment the articles are very bitty - each character's history is broken up into separate media sections which fail to adequately depict how the different interpretations may have influenced the concept's development. Shouldnt a general history section be the most prominent history section for each of these characters? one which would summarise all the major events in the characters multimedia history in the proper context with one another. For instance, Superman's history would mention Action Comics #1 and subsequent comics which introduced key Superman concepts, then mention how his first media adaptation was the radio serial which also introduced important concepts, then mention the first physical depiction of the character at the 1940 Worlds Fair and then on to a mention of the movie serials etc. Though I understand and share an attachment to the trivia of these character's comic book histories I think that we should acknowledge that comics are no longer the only influence on their development (if they ever were). Their comic book history could then be briefly summarised on the main page and expanded on in a spin-off page as is usually the practice with the details of other media adaptations. Hueysheridan 18:14, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Is there really any point bothering with this? The articles don't seem to change much in their nomination time, and the clock runs over for a fortnight before anyone bothers to change it, if at all.
Can we have a straw poll of who is willing to change the nominated articles? If there is less than 15, then, unless the small group were really avid in changing the article, I'd have to declare it dead. Thoughts? -- Jamdav86 20:06, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
It is collab of the month. The main problem is that no-one seems to be bothered to change it. Therefore, I will state this now: there is no one person that changes it every month, so if it runs out and you notice, I urge you to change the collab notices. Do not stand around and ask "Why isn't anyone doing it?", DO IT YOURSELF PLEASE. -- Jamdav86 10:42, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Alright, we have another go at this. I put up a new collab. Could I please urge the community to nominate, vote, and edit the collabs please? I added the deadline to the template as it may enhance the sense of urgency. -- Jamdav86 13:15, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Here are the past collaborations. Can the project please put them up for featured article nomination, then cross the off and sign them. Thanks. -- Jamdav86 14:10, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Well then obviously the collaboration hasn't worked. The point of the collaboration is to get the nominated articles up to Featured Article status. Therefore these are featured article standard, and all that needs to happen is for the articles to go through the proper channels to recognise them. However, apparently they aren't featured article status even after all the Wikiproject's members have looked, edited and improved them, so it's a waste of time bothering to continue the collab. -- Jamdav86 20:32, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Why was this changed? I fail to see the benefit from removing the notable relatives part of the box. D1Puck1T 20:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that after Ultimate Nightcrawler was merged with consensus, it re-emerged and is back as its own page again. I fear this is going to be a trend with all the other Ultimate versions of characters that were voted to be merged and that people put time and effort into merging them and making the main pages better. I think if we are gonna put the effort into setting up guidelines and voting for consensus we should probably back up what we say should happen. Any ideas of what we could do to prevent them all from re-proliferating wikipedia? Or should we just let them all come back? -- Silver lode 21:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
This article says that the Night Nurse appearing now is a new character. I thought she was the same character from the older comics? Has it ever been stated that these are two separate people? -- DrBat 00:10, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
I have just created an article for Quicken Forbidden, a series published by Cryptic Press and AiT/PlanetLar. In order to flesh it out and make it not a stub, I am tempted to supply issue summaries (there are only 13 issues) and/or a list of minor characters. But I do not want there to be too much fancruft or fluff. I'd like some advice as to what to do with this article, please, and if anyone has anything to add to the main content, please do. Thank you. LordAmeth 12:24, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi to you all, I recently joined the Portal: comics, and I did a major edit to the Eshu (comics). I would like for someone here to have a look at the article, tell me what's missing and how to improve that, so I can complete it and devote my self to other comic book articles.-- Captain ginyu 17:57, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Does someone have a copy of Dark Knight Returns they can dig out and scan? We need an image of the shrine with Jason Todd's uniform in the Batcave for the Jason Todd article, and the most logical place to get it would be its first appearance.
As for the image we have now, it's really low-quality and unsourced. - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire | past ops) 08:32, 31 July 2006 (UTC)