![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 40 | ← | Archive 43 | Archive 44 | Archive 45 | Archive 46 | Archive 47 | → | Archive 50 |
Hey there, i noticed this list awhile ago and was pleased, as a side hobby i do research into top people who are top influences in fields ranging from the high profile to the extremely obscure. I realize this list is based upon the 2000 most important people that would be in a print encyclopedia... I also acknowledge recentism is a factor but i can't help but wonder if we could represent a small couple of fields that are notable and just have one person to represent them to provide a fuller overview of human cultural existence, even if it is negative. The fact that we have people like Coco Chanel Al Capone Shigeru Miyamoto and Tupac Shakur for instance, as they are one person each representing a small cultural domain. Here's some ideas. (each link goes toward a person who dominates that field).
Heck even something like porn is a field that could be represented Linda Lovelace
Or even people who are widely known and are unique like Ayn Rand Giacomo Casanova Grigori Rasputin
P.S i know they don't really qualify under normal circumstances and i am not saying "ADD THEM ALL" i am just saying maybe we can represent some fields like chefs/criminals/Atheism or something with one person even if they might not pass the test like someone would have to in another field like politicians or acting. Mainly proposing this as a brainstorm, i know these are silly but it wouldn't hurt to think about what fields it might be good to think about adding (if any). I'd love to discuss as this is a passion of mine.
P.PS The strongest one i think merits inclusion is L. Ron Hubbard, i am not a fan at all but i really think New Religious Movements are a legitimate target for one biography.
The road block with these type of under-representations or expanding hip-hop for existence (which i do support) is that they nearly all fall under recentism or are western so people are understandably a little iffy in adding them. I think one of the missing fields is criminals (i know it was removed, i've read most of the archives) yeah it's not a positive field but there's been criminals since there's been humans, recorded criminal history starts here, ha! so i think Blackbeard best represents that as he is historical and piracy played a big part in merchant trade.
I seen Arnold removed and i honestly did not agree really while he may be more of a pop-ish actor he's also a two term governor and played a big role in the foundation and dominance of bodybuilding and he was one of the figures who arguably brought fitness to the mainstream, that's more then a lot of the actors listed here have done, but now i seem like a rabid fan (not really one).
Yeah, Gizza, i seen you mention Atheism and i do agree with you, that's why i added it as a show of support, ha! Regarding the sports you mentioned, yeah they are relatively small, i mainly added League as a nod to the other game which is commonly not as heard of as Union. I do support unique sports when there is such domination like Jahangir and Kelly Slater for instance, i had heard of the others (Thanks for introducing me to Retigi). I would have added Phil and Lin in my original proposal but the sports are too small and people don't really like athletes being on here (Although American Football has three and that is regarded in one country, although a big one i understand).
Regarding Sexology, yes Sigmund is the most important to the layman i was just offering a specific person that specifically is prominent in the field, as Sigmund was mainly Psychoanalysis. Don't have a strong opinion on Hugh being here although he could represent adult entertainment as a whole. Yes, forgot Houdini but he is the only magician (if it was 40 years in the future, David Copperfield would probably qualify), Marcel is the only mime too. A. C. i must of missed him as i did not see him on the list, my mistake. We do need to have a conversation on underrepresented sports and arts, this was supposed to be a mega-post on that but separate discussions might suffice. I'd support Helena and i do agree.
Regarding on how to handle sports i think we should cut back on some like Auto Racing to 5, Cricket to 5, Baseball to 5, Basketball to 5, Gymnastics to 5 and Tennis to 10, then we can add really dominant people in small-ish sports or something, even sports which are restricted to Eastern audiences like Lin Dan or Tanikaze Kajinosuke, that's why i included Table-tennis, also mainly Olympic ones. I know i added some fields regarded as juvenile or regarded for youths but juvenile history is still history, which is why i added Tony Hawk who has influenced a whole scene of youth extreme sports (even had a impact on video games with his own self-titled series). I noticed Professional Wrestling itself is not on the list by-itself so we can ignore that although i do think it should be as it is big in multiple continents (although only the U.S, Japan and Mexico) mainly.
My main point is to maybe add some fields which might not be historically important (as they are within the new century) but it would be good in my mind to diversify the topics as if this list is used as a point of improvement it could help our encyclopedia to improve upon people in different topics. I forgot some potential fields. con-langs sports inventors, one of the only main sports that has a definitive creator Stunt men or even small-ish fields like talk-radio, Media criticism and i think i we missing Shah Rukh Khan.
My main ones that i think should be added are NRM's, a criminal, some unique sports dominators (like Karelin), graffiti (another centuries old thing), Modeling and Martial Arts (beyond Bruce Lee).
P.S i think if more hip-hop is to be added we should include atleast one group (like Run–D.M.C.) for example. Disclaimer - I am not a big fan of any of these people or fields i just think some diversification of topics and the potential of adding some fun, non-academic type fields might be good for this list. GuzzyG ( talk) 02:04, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Mumtaz Jehan (February 14, 1933 – February 23, 1969), more popularly known as Madhubala (literally "honey belle"), was an Indian Bollywood actress who appeared in classic films of Hindi Cinema.[2][3] She was active between 1942 and 1960. Along with her contemporaries Nargis and Meena Kumari, she is regarded as one of the most influential personalities of Hindi movies.[4] She is also considered to be one of the most beautiful actresses to have worked in the industry.-- Skr15081997 ( talk) 12:34, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Continuing from what I said above, Nargis often costarred with Raj Kapoor who is listed, creating overlap which on such a selective list makes it hard to add her. Another thought I've had is should another Indian film be added to complement the Apu Trilogy? If so, it could only be Sholay which is so far ahead of every other candidate. Gizza ( t)( c) 13:32, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
I think we already have enough actors/actresses. So to support this nomination, I would need someone to remove to make space for this one. Please add information on why this actress is vital for international Wikipedians, ie beyond the Indian context Arnoutf ( talk) 12:57, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A prominent pop artist.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:08, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Her body painting, especially of the Trompe-l'œil variety, has become quite prominent as the primary artist for the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue and her prior work as a make-up artist for Madonna and others is highly regarded.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:53, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A social scientist and critic who greatly influenced socialist thinkers and engineers who sought a non-Marxist critique of capitalism.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
He was a key figure in the history of child-study, and contributed a lot to psychology, hence he is vital.
He was the first to have an American negro as his student, and was the first president of the American Psychological Association, which is currently the largest psychological association on earth. Don't these statements prove that this article is vital?-- RekishiEJ ( talk) 14:57, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A psychologist who made significant contribution to educational, developmental and cognitive psychology.
A great Prussian educator who influenced the formulation of Prussia's first general school law, which in turn influenced compulsory education on earth.
He helped to established public schools in Massachusetts, which in turn caused many other states to do the same, thus he influenced the U.S.A. a lot.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
An Austrian-American whose writings contributed to the philosophical and practical foundations of the modern business corporation. He was also a leader in the development of management education.
Not the next business theorist to be included. Gizza ( t)( c) 06:12, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
We generally guard against recentism though we do list people that only became prominent since the mid-2000s like Lionel Messi, Rafael Nadal, Manmohan Singh, Usain Bolt and Barack Obama (while Kofi Annan, the Williams sisters and Vladimir Putin became notable only a little bit earlier).
I think you can put forward a very strong case for adding Angela Merkel. Chancellor of Germany since 2005 and regarded as de facto leader of the European Union for most of this time. Credited as being a stabilizing force for the continent during a tumultuous economic period. Merkel has been ranked as the most powerful woman for nine of the past ten years by Forbes. And the only people consistently above her in the Forbes list of The World's Most Powerful People over the past five years are Obama and Putin who are listed.
Note that Obama was added to the list when he president for less than three years and he didn't do much back then. The only reason for adding him so early was because it was an historic moment when someone from a racial minority became President of the United States. You can say likewise for Angela who will always be known as the first woman to become Chancellor of Germany (though her actions and long tenure make her vital too). Gizza ( t)( c) 00:42, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
One of the best-known monarchs of 17th-century Europe. Her abdication of the Swedish throne stunned Europe and her masculine behaviour and unconventional lifestyle scandalized it. Few have equalled her legacy as a patron of the arts – she founded the Arcadian Academy and sponsored some of the greatest composers ( Alessandro Scarlatti, Arcangelo Corelli) and artists ( Gian Lorenzo Bernini) of the Baroque period.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Pioneer in the study of infectious disease and a founder of modern bacteriology.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Apart from biology and medicine we're also short on people who made contributions to geology. Wegener conceived of the idea of continental drift; like Mendel, his theory was ahead of its time but has since been shown to be one of the most profound ideas in modern science.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Second-rate 19th-century mathematicians. Richard Dedekind, a contemporary number theorist, was far more important than either of them; and Apollonius of Perga is another mathematician that I'd consider more obviously vital but isn't listed.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This otherwise totally obscure scientist ( 812 views in the last 30 days) was probably not even the first person to invent the capacitor: Ewald Georg von Kleist is also claimed to have done the same.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I don't think inventing the vacuum flask is enough to make Dewar vital. For example we don't list Robert Bunsen who invented the Bunsen burner. Heike Kamerlingh Onnes, discoverer of superconductivity and winner of the 1913 Nobel Prize for Physics, is a more important condensed-matter physicist who isn't listed.
Hopefully the above proposals make it obvious just how much more detailed our coverage of mathematicians and physicists is compared to our coverage of other natural sciences, where people who opened up entire disciplines of study have so far been overlooked. Cobblet ( talk) 23:14, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
I think I removed the Dewar flask itself from the list years ago, and replaced it with something like water well, or plumbing. Dewar flask now redirects to vacuum flask, neither of them nor it's inventor seem vital. Vacuum flask seems the most important, but still probably not quite vital. Carl wev 17:13, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The current list of Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Annika Sörenstam and Tiger Woods smacks of recentism.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:48, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Snead and Hogan were both removed last year. Cobblet ( talk) 16:00, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The first Olympian to win gold in the same individual event in four consecutive olympics.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:58, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Secretariat was removed some time ago here. The main reasons provided were that there are more important horse topics missing and there are racing horses of equal significance in other countries such as Phar Lap. Gizza ( t)( c) 10:17, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Probably the most well-known group of early native North Americans, even more so than the Mississippian culture which we already list. I'll note that we also list Mesa Verde National Park, the most famous of Puebloan sites, but the Puebloans' architectural legacy is much more extensive than that one site and is also just one part of their legacy as a whole.
I was thinking about proposing to add an indigenous group from South America to the ethnic groups section. It's the only inhabited continent with no representation. Quechua people and Aymara people are among the leading candidates. Also thinking of swapping Sami people for Sápmi (the latter is not a politically autonomous region and only notable because of the Sami people). Maybe do the same with Kurds and Kurdistan but at least some of Kurdistan is autonomous. Gizza ( t)( c) 01:37, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article is no less vital than Financial crisis of 2007–08, since it documents the global economic downturn during the early 21st century, rather than the detailed background on financial market events dating from 2007, which is covered by Financial crisis of 2007–08.
The Great Recession is not the same thing as the Great Depression. If the Financial crisis of 2007–08 was included but not the Great Depression, then that would be a clear case of recentism. The Great Recession refers to the largest economic downturn since WWII which happened in the first decade of the 21st century (i.e. quite recent). It is still a decent article to have. Gizza ( t)( c) 13:50, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
These two articles are no less vital than history of psychology and history of sociology, however they are not included in the list.
I had made this proposal before, however these two article were not added to the list due to having no more vota for 30 days (cf. Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Expanded/Archive 42#Add history of anthropology and history of political science)-- RekishiEJ ( talk) 14:39, 4 September 2015 (UTC) 04:15, 6 September 2015 (UTC) added a parenthesis
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I was about to nominate " Victory March (fight song)" and " The Victors" because when I was younger I did not associate them with a school. I just felt that they were songs played at college sporting events. They are universally recognized. However, I realize that fight song is not even recognized. Let's add this.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:30, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Rumours is a very good album but pop music is already amply represented. We don't have a single jazz album ( Rhapsody in Blue isn't really jazz) and Kind of Blue is an obvious choice to represent the genre. It can legitimately be said to have made a major impact on 20th-century music.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Arguably Roy Lichtenstein's most notable work and one of the most important pop art works.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:10, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
I'd probably support removing Campbell's soup cans too Carl wev 18:18, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I think an important photograph should be on the list since currently 31 of the 32 specific works are paintings and sculptures.
History of photography might be worth considering....maybe? Carl wev 07:17, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Since paintings and sculptures represent 31 of the 32 specific works at VA, I think we should broaden our perspective. This is another attempt to do that.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:31, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
This is definitely an interesting choice. Adding a magazine would indeed broaden our perspective. I could support this. For magazines covers, there's also Afghan Girl. Gizza ( t)( c) 09:43, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
This is the most famous work of textile art that I know and since textile art is under consideration above, I thought about this one.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:33, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
Based on the categories the article is in, the Shroud of Turin is not treated as a work of art, it is treated as a religious relic. It's not in any art categories in itself or through other subcategories. Would this be better under religion somewhere, if it gets in? No one knows how it was made, it's not famous for artistic reasons, even if one believes it was deliberately drawn on, which is only one theory of many, it still isn't really an art piece. Also this does seem quite notable, much much more than magazine covers, I'm thinking about whether this deserves a place above other relics. Not sure, maybe....There is also the article Relic itself, not sure if that's vital, I'll look through the article. Carl wev 17:00, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Cobblet also mentions this work as one of the pieces that is near the front of the line for consideration. Let's have the discussion.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:20, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
If we're not even sure American Gothic is vital, I don't see how the "18th best American film of all time" is vital. We already list eight other silent films spanning the years 1915-1929.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Currently there are six articles on tax: tax itself, corporate tax, income tax, property tax, sales tax and tariff. Corporate tax for all intents and purposes is just an income tax applied to companies. There are 96 articles in the business and economics section and even if there are 100, to be frank there isn't space for six articles on tax.
As previously mentioned, there are many gaping holes in business and economics. Things like productivity, subsidy/ protectionism (welfare covers different territory), something on economic growth/ business cycle/ recession (this is about to be rectified), franchising, bankruptcy, government budget or fiscal policy, interest rate or monetary policy, actuarial science, human resource management, privatization, mortgage, double-entry bookkeeping system, valuation (finance) or mergers and acquisitions or investment banking, etc. You get the idea.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The fact that its online edition was the second most widely read in the world as of October 2014 guarantees its vitality, however The Times is currently on the list, but the Guardian is not, which is quite weird.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Since this paper is the USA's first national, general-interest daily middle-market newspaper virtually everywhere except New York and Washington and the word "McPaper" was coined to refer to this newspaper, and it is quite influential there, it is as crucial as WSJ.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Look at the article and you'll see that it is almost a disambiguation page. More of a dictionary term than a topic in an encyclopedia. Authority has different meanings in politics, sociology, religion and philosophy. Something like sovereignty and power (social and political) would be better choices for the list. Also it doesn't make any sense to have this in psychology.
I'm uncomfortable with a straight-up removal. While different disciplines take different approaches toward studying where power derives from and how it controls people, the questions they are asking are all naturally related. Britannica has a decent overview of this very subject, and the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy has an extensive article on political authority. The Milgram experiment is a classic psychological experiment investigating the nature of authority. Perhaps the article belongs better under sociology and maybe power (social and political) is the better article to include (it does get more hits), but something on this topic ought to remain on the list. Cobblet ( talk) 21:33, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I think the concept of self-worth is more vital than the emotions related to it, and that listing the more general article is a better way of covering these and other unlisted but related concepts like assertiveness or narcissism. Self-esteem gets about as many page views as pride and shame combined.
Some of the concepts that are antonyms of other concepts on the list don't look so vital to me. I feel empathy ought to cover egocentricism and trust ought to cover betrayal, just like how altruism covers selfishness or aggression covers deference. Cobblet ( talk) 15:10, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
I definitely support the addition, there is some overlap, but they aren't the same thing, I consider emotions important and vital and believe a little overlap is acceptable. Need to think a bit more if I support removals, not sure if I do? Pride and shame do seem to get a lot of attention among literature, psychology and philosophy. Carl wev 17:07, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Breach of trust ought to be covered by trust.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
We list pipe. In general usage pipe and tube are interchangeable. If you search online you can find pages explaining the perceived difference, at least among experts, but in my opinion it's too similar, or not significant enough to include in out list. Tube itself is a disambiguation page, appearing in 10 languages, this article itself in only 5; pipe however is in about 42 languages and is a much better article. I am wondering how many other languages have 2 words like English does. Also we include pipeline transport under transport, plumbing in industry, water stuff. Also we don't have Cylinder (geometry) or Cylinder (engine) or Pneumatics which are other pipe/tube kind of articles that would cover more ground. Carl wev 20:56, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The ancient toponym Xia (夏) consisted of present-day Shanxi, Shaanxi and Henan, and Henan is included in the list, hence they are all crucial.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This province is in fact no less vital than jiangsu, however it is not included in the article.
I think it's possible to argue Jiangsu's more important than Zhejiang, and I think adding Ningbo is a better idea. Cobblet ( talk) 19:23, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Although not a huge city or a sovereign state, it is basically a self governing over seas territory of the UK. Although not a sovereign state, it has a higher population than some sovereign states we list, such as Niue, Nauru, Cook Islands and more. Compared to the Niue article, the Gibraltar article appears in more languages and gets about triple page views, and in general just receives more attention in encyclopedias, literature and the in media than the smaller sovereign states. We also list some islands with less history, culture and population that are not sovereign states. Gibraltar's history also goes back over 1000 years. Also we list the Straight of Gibraltar but not the territory itself, which seems a little odd. (Although I understand it's an important narrow passageway from the Atlantic to the whole Mediterranean, well, the only one in fact, and is only named after it, of course not actually part of it.)
Gibraltar does seem to be in similar territory to the Falkland Islands. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:44, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Both are definitely vital, especially the former, since many people are familiar with suburbanization, just like urbanization.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The concept of the end time/end times/end of days has been consistently raising its head every few years for two millennia. p b p
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Both fork and spoon are on the list, why isn't the table knife? Daylen ( talk) 00:39, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
oppose per Cobblet. Pathetic stub too Johnbod ( talk) 16:34, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Is of interest to biology, psychology and philosophy. We have all 5 traditional senses, this is an overview article that covers them. But it also covers other non traditional senses of humans that we don't cover individually and probably shouldn't such as sense of time, balance, pain, temperature, hunger, and more. It also covers other animals and other life form senses which aren't otherwise covered like echolocation as in bats and marine mammals and others, and perception of electricity, magnetism in bird migration and others and more. The topic about how life forms sense and perceive their environment/surroundings in general is an important topic that could be covered well this overview article but may not be covered in as much depth the same way within articles about individual senses.
Although this cover stuff we already have, it covers new ground too, I still think the concept is vital, and it also may be worth at least considering at the 1000 level considering nearly all life has some form of a sense, and eye and ear are there already, as are things we can sense heat/temperature, light, color, sound. The section about senses already has overlap in that it has olfaction and olfactory system, and auditory system and ear and hearing and more for the other senses. I am aware one is about the primary organ, another the whole system, and another the minds perception of the information, so I'll leave them alone. Biology is under quota too, plus more groups of species are up for removal soon also.
I've also noticed that there is also an article
sensory system which we don't list, that is also a very decent overview article. It would obviously overlap with sense, but the overlap would be the same kind as the other individual senses I've pointed out above (eg nose olfaction and olfactory system are listed for smell, and other senses have at least 3 articles each too).
Carl
wev
10:48, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Waheeda Rehman (born 3 February 1938) is an Indian actress who has appeared in mainly Hindi films, as well as Tamil andTelugu films. She is noted for her contributions to different genres of films from the 1950s, 1960s and early 1970s. She has received a Centenary Award for Indian Film Personality, a Filmfare Lifetime Achievement Award, a National Film Award for Best Actress and two Filmfare Awards for Best Actress, throughout her career. She has been cited as the Bollywood's "most beautiful" actress by various media outlets, a title for which she has received substantial publicity.-- Skr15081997 ( talk) 12:34, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
I think we already have enough actors/actresses. So to support this nomination, I would need someone to remove to make space for this one. Also I am not sure that any national award justifies inclusion into this list of globally vital articles, so please add information on why this actress is vital for international Wikipedians Arnoutf ( talk) 12:57, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nirmala Dutt (1 June 1929 – 3 May 1981), born Fatima Rashid but known by her screen name, Nargis, was an Indian filmactress working in the Hindi cinema. She made her screen debut as a child artist in Talash-E-Haq in 1935, but her acting career began in 1942 with Tamanna (1942). During a career from the 1940s to the 1960s, Nargis appeared in numerous commercially successful as well as critically appreciated films, many of which featured her alongside actor and filmmaker Raj Kapoor.
One of the best-known roles of Nargis was that of Radha in the Academy Award-nominated film Mother India (1957), a performance that won her Best Actress trophy at the Filmfare Awards. In 1958, she married her Mother India co-actor Sunil Dutt, and left the film industry. She would appear infrequently in films during the 1960s. Some of her films of this period include the drama Raat Aur Din (1967), for which she was given the inaugural National Film Award for Best Actress.-- Skr15081997 ( talk) 12:34, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
I think we already have enough actors/actresses. So to support this nomination, I would need someone to remove to make space for this one. Also I am not sure that any national award justifies inclusion into this list of globally vital articles, so please add information on why this actress is vital for international Wikipedians Arnoutf ( talk) 12:57, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Meena Kumari (1 August 1932 – 31 March 1972), born Mahjabeen Bano, was an Indian film actress and poet. She is regarded as one of the most prominent actresses to have appeared on the screens of Hindi Cinema. During a career spanning 30 years from her childhood to her death, she starred in more than ninety films, many of which have achieved classic and cult status today. She is regarded as one of the geatest Hindi movie actresses of all time.-- Skr15081997 ( talk) 12:34, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
I think we already have enough actors/actresses. So to support this nomination, I would need someone to remove to make space for this one. Please add information on why this actress is vital for international Wikipedians, ie beyond the Indian context Arnoutf ( talk) 12:57, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
If we have to include a pop culture writer, the creator of Harry Potter is surely a much better choice than the creator of Watchmen. I'd also prefer including people like George Herriman, Charles M. Schulz or Art Spiegelman before Moore.
I am aware of the effort to include more women, Rowling is definitely a contender but I can't help wonder if in this instance, the article on Harry Potter itself would be better or worse. Harry Potter is by far the main if not only reason for the author's importance, Harry Potter itself is very well known, and I haven't checked but I would expect it to appear in more languages and have more page views than the author. For example by comparison we list Superman but not he's creators Jerry Siegel or Joe Shuster, we list Spider-Man but not Stan Lee, Batman but not Bob Kane or Bill Finger, Peanuts but not Charles M. Schulz, Tarzan but not Edgar Rice Burroughs, James Bond but not Ian Fleming, Frankenstein but not Mary Shelley (although Shelley is a decent idea for another notable woman to include though), Count Dracula but not Bram Stoker (or Dracula, the novel), Asterix but not René Goscinny or Albert Uderzo, Conan the Barbarian but not Robert E. Howard. Simply put authors with one main series/work/book/character are often overshadowed by their character which often gets listed more than themself including here. I would consider Potter v Rowling the same, although Rowling is still quite a decent proposal. There are also some that have author and main character/work listed too like Sherlock Holmes and Arthur Conan Doyle, and The Adventures of Tintin and Hergé. Carl wev 17:04, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There are several American journalists more influential than Pyle not listed, from Ambrose Bierce and Ida B. Wells to Tom Wolfe and Truman Capote. But perhaps even more influential than all of them is Anna Wintour, who's become a legendary figure in the fashion industry, which also happens to be poorly represented on our list.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
An American psychologist best known for his theory of stages of moral development.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Both influenced the U.S.A. a lot, however unlike Martin Luther King Jr. and Malcolm X, neither of them are included in the list.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
We don't have any archaeologists on the list. Schliemann discovered Troy and Mycenae. His methods may have been brutal by modern standards (we can add Flinders Petrie if there's a need to have someone who represents more modern archaeological techniques) but there's no denying the significance of his accomplishments.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This one hasn't really made a lot of sense to me. Seems the sainted pontiff who started Vatican 2 is more important than the non-sainted pontiff who finished it. p b p 14:01, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
If we are adding Angela Merkel, then we should certainly add Xi Jinping. Xi Jinping is presiding over the second-largest economy in the world, and is one of the most powerful Chinese presidents in a long time. He is also a controversial leader with his island-building in the East China Sea and allegations of cybertheft by his government.. Xi Jinping is at least of equal importance to Angela Merkel, and is arguably even more important. He is arguably the second most powerful world leader if not the most powerful after Barrack Obama, who is on the list. Not to mention adding another Chinese leader can reduce Western bias on the list.
I get the recentism objection. But his status as the current leader of China should alone guarantee a spot on the list. If he turns out not to be important, he can be replaced by the next Chinese president. While I normally would agree with your objection, current politicians of major countries should be exceptions to the list. PointsofNoReturn ( talk) 03:26, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
It's absolutely recentism, but I'd like to see a set of current world leaders listed. But I'm not sure what that set should be. Pope and UN secretary general included? Leaders of the 5 permanent UN security council countries? Or G8 leaders? With ~2000 people on the vital list, surely there's room for more than a couple current leaders. Yes, there will be some churn as politicians leave and enter office, but I don't understand why 10 of the last 13 US presidents are on the vital list if not for a tendency to recentism and US bias (the US presidents being all those from FDR-Obama, except Ford, Bush senior and Clinton not listed). It's out of the ordinary for how VA/E usually runs, but I think we could possibly come up with a dozen or so political and religious leadership positions where the incumbent person is the vital topic rather than the position itself ( pope is on the vital list, but President of the United States is not, and I don't think it should be, but I learn towards defaulting to include the incumbent US president before debating which of their last 12 predecessors to include). Plantdrew ( talk) 06:19, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I don't see why we need to list the president of Kazakhstan.
@ DaGizza: Kazakhstan is only 26 years old, though. p b p 15:49, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Niyazov was notorious for his eccentricities but his actual influence on history is negligible. Compare Francisco Macías Nguema and François Duvalier who were just as crazy and aren't listed. I'd say someone like Grigori Rasputin, who was once on the list but later removed, would be a vastly better choice.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominated once for removal before, and got much support, 7 in fact but just fell short. (see here). In fact vote was 6-3 for about 2 weeks in early November, which could have been closed as a pass by today's rules, but not then. That general area of history is covered by many biographies and other articles, and there are other more important articles missing. See is known primarily for one speech, which is fairly well known but not vital, and her other work and her influence are not the same importance as other people listed. Also article woman's rights failed (see here) which is one idea she supported. Articles like racial segregation are missing too, and I think may be worth considering. Carl wev 18:00, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Currently all the suffragettes on the list are Americans, which does not reflect the worldwide nature of the movement. Emmeline Pankhurst became world-famous for her advocacy of militant tactics in the fight for women's suffrage in Britain. Malcolm X is listed; she should be as well.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Since core region of the ancient state Chu (楚) consisted of what is now Hubei and Hunan, Hubei is the province in which the vital city Wuchang belongs to, and some vital figures, e.g. Mao Zedong and Peng Dehuai were born there, hence both Hubei and Hunan are crucial.
FWIW, I believe Madhya Pradesh and Karnataka are the only other country subdivisions worth adding on the basis of a similar comparison in cultural/demographic terms with other Indian states. I also think Goa and Penang should be added but that's by analogy with Macau and other historical trading ports on the list. I could accept adding some country subdivisions mainly on the basis of physical size. Cobblet ( talk) 04:33, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
This province should be added to the list, since many Overseas Chinese persons come from there.
The geography section needs some serious rethinking, and I'd like to see some subnational entities (re)-added to the list, e.g. all of the Chinese provinces Rekishi mentions are more vital than Hainan (although that doesn't necessarily mean they should be added – some of the major cities in these provinces like Ningbo or Xiamen might be better choices); I'd argue Tasmania is the least vital of Australian states; that we consider Sierra Nevada (U.S.) vital but New York not doesn't make much sense. But after seeing some of my previous proposals fail due to a lack of !votes I'm not sure enough of us have an interest in world geography to get a solid consensus on what should and shouldn't be considered a vital geography article. Cobblet ( talk) 19:44, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This U.S. state is vital, since it is the heart of Dixie.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The fact that this city is abundant in oil makes it crucial.
Aberdeen isn't the next UK city to add to the list IMO. As far as Scottish geography goes, I think it's better to consider Shetland or Scottish Highlands first (swap with Loch Ness Monster?) because these parts are historically and culturally distinct from mainstream Scotland. Gizza ( t)( c) 10:05, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
I've been thinking about cities. UK cities that have crossed my mind are Bristol, Belfast, Newcastle upon Tyne, Sheffield; Bristol I think is the better choice. I look at the Global city article for some ideas there are more UK cities there like the ones I just mentioned plus Nottingham, Southampton and Aberdeen too, I think they seem lower priority. (It is only a rough guide though, it appears to favour industry and business over history and culture Tel Aviv is higher than Jerusalem, and it seems capital cities are favoured too like Luxembourg City and Port Louis are listed there) Other cities mentioned there I like the sound of are ones like: Gothenberg, Antwerp, Calgary, Liepzig, Porto, Malmo, Adelaide
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The paradigm by which East Asian society handles the concept of self-esteem. Similar to honour in that the motivating emotion is shame, but whereas in honour cultures shame falls on the person who's lost their honour, shame in face cultures falls on the person who causes another to lose face.
I think dignity, face and honour should be placed in the same section, probably sociology. Cobblet ( talk) 20:48, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
In a modern context "temperament" is basically a component of personality and is studied as part of personality psychology. With both of those articles on the list I think we can afford to do without this one. The historical concept of four temperaments is less vital than the four classical elements which itself is not a topic we list.
Attention refers to one's ability to focus or concentrate on something and has been studied by psychologists since the 19th century. It has huge implications on the study of mental health – you can't have a discussion on attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (which we also list) if you don't talk about the neurological basis of attention first. Issues related to multitasking are also part of the study of attention.
I support adding attention, IMO it's better than temperament, but I'm still thinking about whether we need temperament or not, it's true it does overlap personality, but I'm not sure if it's completely redundant, until I read through them a little more. Carl wev 09:31, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A concept pretty much universal to majority of, if not, all cultures. It is important to and has had much representation in literature, religion, law, philosophy, and social sciences historically and up to modern day. Not sure if this belongs in the social/psychology section or the philosophy section, as it relevant to both. I would support putting it in either section. Carl wev 14:07, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Lack of empathy ought to be covered by empathy and psychopathy.
The two unlisted members of the dark triad, narcissism and Machiavellianism, might be more vital. Cobblet ( talk) 01:36, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Both are no doubt vital, though somewhat less important than cigarette since they are not consumed that widely.
At least cigar has history. Electronic cigarette is very non-vital. Gizza ( t)( c) 01:10, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
There have been a lot of MLB players chewing tobacco.
The fact that there have been lots of MLB players chewing tobacco guarantees its vitality.-- RekishiEJ ( talk) 14:24, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Cobblet keeps mentioning this as a marginal piece that should be considered before other pieces that I have nominated. The fact that this discussion has not been held should not be a reason to oppose other works. Let's have the discussion.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:20, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
We already have
Nighthawks. Is it really more important to add a second third American painting than something like
The School of Athens?
Cobblet (
talk)
23:31, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 40 | ← | Archive 43 | Archive 44 | Archive 45 | Archive 46 | Archive 47 | → | Archive 50 |
Hey there, i noticed this list awhile ago and was pleased, as a side hobby i do research into top people who are top influences in fields ranging from the high profile to the extremely obscure. I realize this list is based upon the 2000 most important people that would be in a print encyclopedia... I also acknowledge recentism is a factor but i can't help but wonder if we could represent a small couple of fields that are notable and just have one person to represent them to provide a fuller overview of human cultural existence, even if it is negative. The fact that we have people like Coco Chanel Al Capone Shigeru Miyamoto and Tupac Shakur for instance, as they are one person each representing a small cultural domain. Here's some ideas. (each link goes toward a person who dominates that field).
Heck even something like porn is a field that could be represented Linda Lovelace
Or even people who are widely known and are unique like Ayn Rand Giacomo Casanova Grigori Rasputin
P.S i know they don't really qualify under normal circumstances and i am not saying "ADD THEM ALL" i am just saying maybe we can represent some fields like chefs/criminals/Atheism or something with one person even if they might not pass the test like someone would have to in another field like politicians or acting. Mainly proposing this as a brainstorm, i know these are silly but it wouldn't hurt to think about what fields it might be good to think about adding (if any). I'd love to discuss as this is a passion of mine.
P.PS The strongest one i think merits inclusion is L. Ron Hubbard, i am not a fan at all but i really think New Religious Movements are a legitimate target for one biography.
The road block with these type of under-representations or expanding hip-hop for existence (which i do support) is that they nearly all fall under recentism or are western so people are understandably a little iffy in adding them. I think one of the missing fields is criminals (i know it was removed, i've read most of the archives) yeah it's not a positive field but there's been criminals since there's been humans, recorded criminal history starts here, ha! so i think Blackbeard best represents that as he is historical and piracy played a big part in merchant trade.
I seen Arnold removed and i honestly did not agree really while he may be more of a pop-ish actor he's also a two term governor and played a big role in the foundation and dominance of bodybuilding and he was one of the figures who arguably brought fitness to the mainstream, that's more then a lot of the actors listed here have done, but now i seem like a rabid fan (not really one).
Yeah, Gizza, i seen you mention Atheism and i do agree with you, that's why i added it as a show of support, ha! Regarding the sports you mentioned, yeah they are relatively small, i mainly added League as a nod to the other game which is commonly not as heard of as Union. I do support unique sports when there is such domination like Jahangir and Kelly Slater for instance, i had heard of the others (Thanks for introducing me to Retigi). I would have added Phil and Lin in my original proposal but the sports are too small and people don't really like athletes being on here (Although American Football has three and that is regarded in one country, although a big one i understand).
Regarding Sexology, yes Sigmund is the most important to the layman i was just offering a specific person that specifically is prominent in the field, as Sigmund was mainly Psychoanalysis. Don't have a strong opinion on Hugh being here although he could represent adult entertainment as a whole. Yes, forgot Houdini but he is the only magician (if it was 40 years in the future, David Copperfield would probably qualify), Marcel is the only mime too. A. C. i must of missed him as i did not see him on the list, my mistake. We do need to have a conversation on underrepresented sports and arts, this was supposed to be a mega-post on that but separate discussions might suffice. I'd support Helena and i do agree.
Regarding on how to handle sports i think we should cut back on some like Auto Racing to 5, Cricket to 5, Baseball to 5, Basketball to 5, Gymnastics to 5 and Tennis to 10, then we can add really dominant people in small-ish sports or something, even sports which are restricted to Eastern audiences like Lin Dan or Tanikaze Kajinosuke, that's why i included Table-tennis, also mainly Olympic ones. I know i added some fields regarded as juvenile or regarded for youths but juvenile history is still history, which is why i added Tony Hawk who has influenced a whole scene of youth extreme sports (even had a impact on video games with his own self-titled series). I noticed Professional Wrestling itself is not on the list by-itself so we can ignore that although i do think it should be as it is big in multiple continents (although only the U.S, Japan and Mexico) mainly.
My main point is to maybe add some fields which might not be historically important (as they are within the new century) but it would be good in my mind to diversify the topics as if this list is used as a point of improvement it could help our encyclopedia to improve upon people in different topics. I forgot some potential fields. con-langs sports inventors, one of the only main sports that has a definitive creator Stunt men or even small-ish fields like talk-radio, Media criticism and i think i we missing Shah Rukh Khan.
My main ones that i think should be added are NRM's, a criminal, some unique sports dominators (like Karelin), graffiti (another centuries old thing), Modeling and Martial Arts (beyond Bruce Lee).
P.S i think if more hip-hop is to be added we should include atleast one group (like Run–D.M.C.) for example. Disclaimer - I am not a big fan of any of these people or fields i just think some diversification of topics and the potential of adding some fun, non-academic type fields might be good for this list. GuzzyG ( talk) 02:04, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Mumtaz Jehan (February 14, 1933 – February 23, 1969), more popularly known as Madhubala (literally "honey belle"), was an Indian Bollywood actress who appeared in classic films of Hindi Cinema.[2][3] She was active between 1942 and 1960. Along with her contemporaries Nargis and Meena Kumari, she is regarded as one of the most influential personalities of Hindi movies.[4] She is also considered to be one of the most beautiful actresses to have worked in the industry.-- Skr15081997 ( talk) 12:34, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Continuing from what I said above, Nargis often costarred with Raj Kapoor who is listed, creating overlap which on such a selective list makes it hard to add her. Another thought I've had is should another Indian film be added to complement the Apu Trilogy? If so, it could only be Sholay which is so far ahead of every other candidate. Gizza ( t)( c) 13:32, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
I think we already have enough actors/actresses. So to support this nomination, I would need someone to remove to make space for this one. Please add information on why this actress is vital for international Wikipedians, ie beyond the Indian context Arnoutf ( talk) 12:57, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A prominent pop artist.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:08, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Her body painting, especially of the Trompe-l'œil variety, has become quite prominent as the primary artist for the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue and her prior work as a make-up artist for Madonna and others is highly regarded.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:53, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A social scientist and critic who greatly influenced socialist thinkers and engineers who sought a non-Marxist critique of capitalism.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
He was a key figure in the history of child-study, and contributed a lot to psychology, hence he is vital.
He was the first to have an American negro as his student, and was the first president of the American Psychological Association, which is currently the largest psychological association on earth. Don't these statements prove that this article is vital?-- RekishiEJ ( talk) 14:57, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A psychologist who made significant contribution to educational, developmental and cognitive psychology.
A great Prussian educator who influenced the formulation of Prussia's first general school law, which in turn influenced compulsory education on earth.
He helped to established public schools in Massachusetts, which in turn caused many other states to do the same, thus he influenced the U.S.A. a lot.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
An Austrian-American whose writings contributed to the philosophical and practical foundations of the modern business corporation. He was also a leader in the development of management education.
Not the next business theorist to be included. Gizza ( t)( c) 06:12, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
We generally guard against recentism though we do list people that only became prominent since the mid-2000s like Lionel Messi, Rafael Nadal, Manmohan Singh, Usain Bolt and Barack Obama (while Kofi Annan, the Williams sisters and Vladimir Putin became notable only a little bit earlier).
I think you can put forward a very strong case for adding Angela Merkel. Chancellor of Germany since 2005 and regarded as de facto leader of the European Union for most of this time. Credited as being a stabilizing force for the continent during a tumultuous economic period. Merkel has been ranked as the most powerful woman for nine of the past ten years by Forbes. And the only people consistently above her in the Forbes list of The World's Most Powerful People over the past five years are Obama and Putin who are listed.
Note that Obama was added to the list when he president for less than three years and he didn't do much back then. The only reason for adding him so early was because it was an historic moment when someone from a racial minority became President of the United States. You can say likewise for Angela who will always be known as the first woman to become Chancellor of Germany (though her actions and long tenure make her vital too). Gizza ( t)( c) 00:42, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
One of the best-known monarchs of 17th-century Europe. Her abdication of the Swedish throne stunned Europe and her masculine behaviour and unconventional lifestyle scandalized it. Few have equalled her legacy as a patron of the arts – she founded the Arcadian Academy and sponsored some of the greatest composers ( Alessandro Scarlatti, Arcangelo Corelli) and artists ( Gian Lorenzo Bernini) of the Baroque period.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Pioneer in the study of infectious disease and a founder of modern bacteriology.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Apart from biology and medicine we're also short on people who made contributions to geology. Wegener conceived of the idea of continental drift; like Mendel, his theory was ahead of its time but has since been shown to be one of the most profound ideas in modern science.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Second-rate 19th-century mathematicians. Richard Dedekind, a contemporary number theorist, was far more important than either of them; and Apollonius of Perga is another mathematician that I'd consider more obviously vital but isn't listed.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This otherwise totally obscure scientist ( 812 views in the last 30 days) was probably not even the first person to invent the capacitor: Ewald Georg von Kleist is also claimed to have done the same.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I don't think inventing the vacuum flask is enough to make Dewar vital. For example we don't list Robert Bunsen who invented the Bunsen burner. Heike Kamerlingh Onnes, discoverer of superconductivity and winner of the 1913 Nobel Prize for Physics, is a more important condensed-matter physicist who isn't listed.
Hopefully the above proposals make it obvious just how much more detailed our coverage of mathematicians and physicists is compared to our coverage of other natural sciences, where people who opened up entire disciplines of study have so far been overlooked. Cobblet ( talk) 23:14, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
I think I removed the Dewar flask itself from the list years ago, and replaced it with something like water well, or plumbing. Dewar flask now redirects to vacuum flask, neither of them nor it's inventor seem vital. Vacuum flask seems the most important, but still probably not quite vital. Carl wev 17:13, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The current list of Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Annika Sörenstam and Tiger Woods smacks of recentism.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:48, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Snead and Hogan were both removed last year. Cobblet ( talk) 16:00, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The first Olympian to win gold in the same individual event in four consecutive olympics.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:58, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Secretariat was removed some time ago here. The main reasons provided were that there are more important horse topics missing and there are racing horses of equal significance in other countries such as Phar Lap. Gizza ( t)( c) 10:17, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Probably the most well-known group of early native North Americans, even more so than the Mississippian culture which we already list. I'll note that we also list Mesa Verde National Park, the most famous of Puebloan sites, but the Puebloans' architectural legacy is much more extensive than that one site and is also just one part of their legacy as a whole.
I was thinking about proposing to add an indigenous group from South America to the ethnic groups section. It's the only inhabited continent with no representation. Quechua people and Aymara people are among the leading candidates. Also thinking of swapping Sami people for Sápmi (the latter is not a politically autonomous region and only notable because of the Sami people). Maybe do the same with Kurds and Kurdistan but at least some of Kurdistan is autonomous. Gizza ( t)( c) 01:37, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article is no less vital than Financial crisis of 2007–08, since it documents the global economic downturn during the early 21st century, rather than the detailed background on financial market events dating from 2007, which is covered by Financial crisis of 2007–08.
The Great Recession is not the same thing as the Great Depression. If the Financial crisis of 2007–08 was included but not the Great Depression, then that would be a clear case of recentism. The Great Recession refers to the largest economic downturn since WWII which happened in the first decade of the 21st century (i.e. quite recent). It is still a decent article to have. Gizza ( t)( c) 13:50, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
These two articles are no less vital than history of psychology and history of sociology, however they are not included in the list.
I had made this proposal before, however these two article were not added to the list due to having no more vota for 30 days (cf. Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Expanded/Archive 42#Add history of anthropology and history of political science)-- RekishiEJ ( talk) 14:39, 4 September 2015 (UTC) 04:15, 6 September 2015 (UTC) added a parenthesis
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I was about to nominate " Victory March (fight song)" and " The Victors" because when I was younger I did not associate them with a school. I just felt that they were songs played at college sporting events. They are universally recognized. However, I realize that fight song is not even recognized. Let's add this.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:30, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Rumours is a very good album but pop music is already amply represented. We don't have a single jazz album ( Rhapsody in Blue isn't really jazz) and Kind of Blue is an obvious choice to represent the genre. It can legitimately be said to have made a major impact on 20th-century music.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Arguably Roy Lichtenstein's most notable work and one of the most important pop art works.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:10, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
I'd probably support removing Campbell's soup cans too Carl wev 18:18, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I think an important photograph should be on the list since currently 31 of the 32 specific works are paintings and sculptures.
History of photography might be worth considering....maybe? Carl wev 07:17, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Since paintings and sculptures represent 31 of the 32 specific works at VA, I think we should broaden our perspective. This is another attempt to do that.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:31, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
This is definitely an interesting choice. Adding a magazine would indeed broaden our perspective. I could support this. For magazines covers, there's also Afghan Girl. Gizza ( t)( c) 09:43, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
This is the most famous work of textile art that I know and since textile art is under consideration above, I thought about this one.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:33, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
Based on the categories the article is in, the Shroud of Turin is not treated as a work of art, it is treated as a religious relic. It's not in any art categories in itself or through other subcategories. Would this be better under religion somewhere, if it gets in? No one knows how it was made, it's not famous for artistic reasons, even if one believes it was deliberately drawn on, which is only one theory of many, it still isn't really an art piece. Also this does seem quite notable, much much more than magazine covers, I'm thinking about whether this deserves a place above other relics. Not sure, maybe....There is also the article Relic itself, not sure if that's vital, I'll look through the article. Carl wev 17:00, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Cobblet also mentions this work as one of the pieces that is near the front of the line for consideration. Let's have the discussion.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:20, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
If we're not even sure American Gothic is vital, I don't see how the "18th best American film of all time" is vital. We already list eight other silent films spanning the years 1915-1929.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Currently there are six articles on tax: tax itself, corporate tax, income tax, property tax, sales tax and tariff. Corporate tax for all intents and purposes is just an income tax applied to companies. There are 96 articles in the business and economics section and even if there are 100, to be frank there isn't space for six articles on tax.
As previously mentioned, there are many gaping holes in business and economics. Things like productivity, subsidy/ protectionism (welfare covers different territory), something on economic growth/ business cycle/ recession (this is about to be rectified), franchising, bankruptcy, government budget or fiscal policy, interest rate or monetary policy, actuarial science, human resource management, privatization, mortgage, double-entry bookkeeping system, valuation (finance) or mergers and acquisitions or investment banking, etc. You get the idea.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The fact that its online edition was the second most widely read in the world as of October 2014 guarantees its vitality, however The Times is currently on the list, but the Guardian is not, which is quite weird.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Since this paper is the USA's first national, general-interest daily middle-market newspaper virtually everywhere except New York and Washington and the word "McPaper" was coined to refer to this newspaper, and it is quite influential there, it is as crucial as WSJ.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Look at the article and you'll see that it is almost a disambiguation page. More of a dictionary term than a topic in an encyclopedia. Authority has different meanings in politics, sociology, religion and philosophy. Something like sovereignty and power (social and political) would be better choices for the list. Also it doesn't make any sense to have this in psychology.
I'm uncomfortable with a straight-up removal. While different disciplines take different approaches toward studying where power derives from and how it controls people, the questions they are asking are all naturally related. Britannica has a decent overview of this very subject, and the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy has an extensive article on political authority. The Milgram experiment is a classic psychological experiment investigating the nature of authority. Perhaps the article belongs better under sociology and maybe power (social and political) is the better article to include (it does get more hits), but something on this topic ought to remain on the list. Cobblet ( talk) 21:33, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I think the concept of self-worth is more vital than the emotions related to it, and that listing the more general article is a better way of covering these and other unlisted but related concepts like assertiveness or narcissism. Self-esteem gets about as many page views as pride and shame combined.
Some of the concepts that are antonyms of other concepts on the list don't look so vital to me. I feel empathy ought to cover egocentricism and trust ought to cover betrayal, just like how altruism covers selfishness or aggression covers deference. Cobblet ( talk) 15:10, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
I definitely support the addition, there is some overlap, but they aren't the same thing, I consider emotions important and vital and believe a little overlap is acceptable. Need to think a bit more if I support removals, not sure if I do? Pride and shame do seem to get a lot of attention among literature, psychology and philosophy. Carl wev 17:07, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Breach of trust ought to be covered by trust.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
We list pipe. In general usage pipe and tube are interchangeable. If you search online you can find pages explaining the perceived difference, at least among experts, but in my opinion it's too similar, or not significant enough to include in out list. Tube itself is a disambiguation page, appearing in 10 languages, this article itself in only 5; pipe however is in about 42 languages and is a much better article. I am wondering how many other languages have 2 words like English does. Also we include pipeline transport under transport, plumbing in industry, water stuff. Also we don't have Cylinder (geometry) or Cylinder (engine) or Pneumatics which are other pipe/tube kind of articles that would cover more ground. Carl wev 20:56, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The ancient toponym Xia (夏) consisted of present-day Shanxi, Shaanxi and Henan, and Henan is included in the list, hence they are all crucial.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This province is in fact no less vital than jiangsu, however it is not included in the article.
I think it's possible to argue Jiangsu's more important than Zhejiang, and I think adding Ningbo is a better idea. Cobblet ( talk) 19:23, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Although not a huge city or a sovereign state, it is basically a self governing over seas territory of the UK. Although not a sovereign state, it has a higher population than some sovereign states we list, such as Niue, Nauru, Cook Islands and more. Compared to the Niue article, the Gibraltar article appears in more languages and gets about triple page views, and in general just receives more attention in encyclopedias, literature and the in media than the smaller sovereign states. We also list some islands with less history, culture and population that are not sovereign states. Gibraltar's history also goes back over 1000 years. Also we list the Straight of Gibraltar but not the territory itself, which seems a little odd. (Although I understand it's an important narrow passageway from the Atlantic to the whole Mediterranean, well, the only one in fact, and is only named after it, of course not actually part of it.)
Gibraltar does seem to be in similar territory to the Falkland Islands. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:44, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Both are definitely vital, especially the former, since many people are familiar with suburbanization, just like urbanization.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The concept of the end time/end times/end of days has been consistently raising its head every few years for two millennia. p b p
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Both fork and spoon are on the list, why isn't the table knife? Daylen ( talk) 00:39, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
oppose per Cobblet. Pathetic stub too Johnbod ( talk) 16:34, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Is of interest to biology, psychology and philosophy. We have all 5 traditional senses, this is an overview article that covers them. But it also covers other non traditional senses of humans that we don't cover individually and probably shouldn't such as sense of time, balance, pain, temperature, hunger, and more. It also covers other animals and other life form senses which aren't otherwise covered like echolocation as in bats and marine mammals and others, and perception of electricity, magnetism in bird migration and others and more. The topic about how life forms sense and perceive their environment/surroundings in general is an important topic that could be covered well this overview article but may not be covered in as much depth the same way within articles about individual senses.
Although this cover stuff we already have, it covers new ground too, I still think the concept is vital, and it also may be worth at least considering at the 1000 level considering nearly all life has some form of a sense, and eye and ear are there already, as are things we can sense heat/temperature, light, color, sound. The section about senses already has overlap in that it has olfaction and olfactory system, and auditory system and ear and hearing and more for the other senses. I am aware one is about the primary organ, another the whole system, and another the minds perception of the information, so I'll leave them alone. Biology is under quota too, plus more groups of species are up for removal soon also.
I've also noticed that there is also an article
sensory system which we don't list, that is also a very decent overview article. It would obviously overlap with sense, but the overlap would be the same kind as the other individual senses I've pointed out above (eg nose olfaction and olfactory system are listed for smell, and other senses have at least 3 articles each too).
Carl
wev
10:48, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Waheeda Rehman (born 3 February 1938) is an Indian actress who has appeared in mainly Hindi films, as well as Tamil andTelugu films. She is noted for her contributions to different genres of films from the 1950s, 1960s and early 1970s. She has received a Centenary Award for Indian Film Personality, a Filmfare Lifetime Achievement Award, a National Film Award for Best Actress and two Filmfare Awards for Best Actress, throughout her career. She has been cited as the Bollywood's "most beautiful" actress by various media outlets, a title for which she has received substantial publicity.-- Skr15081997 ( talk) 12:34, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
I think we already have enough actors/actresses. So to support this nomination, I would need someone to remove to make space for this one. Also I am not sure that any national award justifies inclusion into this list of globally vital articles, so please add information on why this actress is vital for international Wikipedians Arnoutf ( talk) 12:57, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nirmala Dutt (1 June 1929 – 3 May 1981), born Fatima Rashid but known by her screen name, Nargis, was an Indian filmactress working in the Hindi cinema. She made her screen debut as a child artist in Talash-E-Haq in 1935, but her acting career began in 1942 with Tamanna (1942). During a career from the 1940s to the 1960s, Nargis appeared in numerous commercially successful as well as critically appreciated films, many of which featured her alongside actor and filmmaker Raj Kapoor.
One of the best-known roles of Nargis was that of Radha in the Academy Award-nominated film Mother India (1957), a performance that won her Best Actress trophy at the Filmfare Awards. In 1958, she married her Mother India co-actor Sunil Dutt, and left the film industry. She would appear infrequently in films during the 1960s. Some of her films of this period include the drama Raat Aur Din (1967), for which she was given the inaugural National Film Award for Best Actress.-- Skr15081997 ( talk) 12:34, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
I think we already have enough actors/actresses. So to support this nomination, I would need someone to remove to make space for this one. Also I am not sure that any national award justifies inclusion into this list of globally vital articles, so please add information on why this actress is vital for international Wikipedians Arnoutf ( talk) 12:57, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Meena Kumari (1 August 1932 – 31 March 1972), born Mahjabeen Bano, was an Indian film actress and poet. She is regarded as one of the most prominent actresses to have appeared on the screens of Hindi Cinema. During a career spanning 30 years from her childhood to her death, she starred in more than ninety films, many of which have achieved classic and cult status today. She is regarded as one of the geatest Hindi movie actresses of all time.-- Skr15081997 ( talk) 12:34, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
I think we already have enough actors/actresses. So to support this nomination, I would need someone to remove to make space for this one. Please add information on why this actress is vital for international Wikipedians, ie beyond the Indian context Arnoutf ( talk) 12:57, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
If we have to include a pop culture writer, the creator of Harry Potter is surely a much better choice than the creator of Watchmen. I'd also prefer including people like George Herriman, Charles M. Schulz or Art Spiegelman before Moore.
I am aware of the effort to include more women, Rowling is definitely a contender but I can't help wonder if in this instance, the article on Harry Potter itself would be better or worse. Harry Potter is by far the main if not only reason for the author's importance, Harry Potter itself is very well known, and I haven't checked but I would expect it to appear in more languages and have more page views than the author. For example by comparison we list Superman but not he's creators Jerry Siegel or Joe Shuster, we list Spider-Man but not Stan Lee, Batman but not Bob Kane or Bill Finger, Peanuts but not Charles M. Schulz, Tarzan but not Edgar Rice Burroughs, James Bond but not Ian Fleming, Frankenstein but not Mary Shelley (although Shelley is a decent idea for another notable woman to include though), Count Dracula but not Bram Stoker (or Dracula, the novel), Asterix but not René Goscinny or Albert Uderzo, Conan the Barbarian but not Robert E. Howard. Simply put authors with one main series/work/book/character are often overshadowed by their character which often gets listed more than themself including here. I would consider Potter v Rowling the same, although Rowling is still quite a decent proposal. There are also some that have author and main character/work listed too like Sherlock Holmes and Arthur Conan Doyle, and The Adventures of Tintin and Hergé. Carl wev 17:04, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There are several American journalists more influential than Pyle not listed, from Ambrose Bierce and Ida B. Wells to Tom Wolfe and Truman Capote. But perhaps even more influential than all of them is Anna Wintour, who's become a legendary figure in the fashion industry, which also happens to be poorly represented on our list.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
An American psychologist best known for his theory of stages of moral development.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Both influenced the U.S.A. a lot, however unlike Martin Luther King Jr. and Malcolm X, neither of them are included in the list.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
We don't have any archaeologists on the list. Schliemann discovered Troy and Mycenae. His methods may have been brutal by modern standards (we can add Flinders Petrie if there's a need to have someone who represents more modern archaeological techniques) but there's no denying the significance of his accomplishments.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This one hasn't really made a lot of sense to me. Seems the sainted pontiff who started Vatican 2 is more important than the non-sainted pontiff who finished it. p b p 14:01, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
If we are adding Angela Merkel, then we should certainly add Xi Jinping. Xi Jinping is presiding over the second-largest economy in the world, and is one of the most powerful Chinese presidents in a long time. He is also a controversial leader with his island-building in the East China Sea and allegations of cybertheft by his government.. Xi Jinping is at least of equal importance to Angela Merkel, and is arguably even more important. He is arguably the second most powerful world leader if not the most powerful after Barrack Obama, who is on the list. Not to mention adding another Chinese leader can reduce Western bias on the list.
I get the recentism objection. But his status as the current leader of China should alone guarantee a spot on the list. If he turns out not to be important, he can be replaced by the next Chinese president. While I normally would agree with your objection, current politicians of major countries should be exceptions to the list. PointsofNoReturn ( talk) 03:26, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
It's absolutely recentism, but I'd like to see a set of current world leaders listed. But I'm not sure what that set should be. Pope and UN secretary general included? Leaders of the 5 permanent UN security council countries? Or G8 leaders? With ~2000 people on the vital list, surely there's room for more than a couple current leaders. Yes, there will be some churn as politicians leave and enter office, but I don't understand why 10 of the last 13 US presidents are on the vital list if not for a tendency to recentism and US bias (the US presidents being all those from FDR-Obama, except Ford, Bush senior and Clinton not listed). It's out of the ordinary for how VA/E usually runs, but I think we could possibly come up with a dozen or so political and religious leadership positions where the incumbent person is the vital topic rather than the position itself ( pope is on the vital list, but President of the United States is not, and I don't think it should be, but I learn towards defaulting to include the incumbent US president before debating which of their last 12 predecessors to include). Plantdrew ( talk) 06:19, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I don't see why we need to list the president of Kazakhstan.
@ DaGizza: Kazakhstan is only 26 years old, though. p b p 15:49, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Niyazov was notorious for his eccentricities but his actual influence on history is negligible. Compare Francisco Macías Nguema and François Duvalier who were just as crazy and aren't listed. I'd say someone like Grigori Rasputin, who was once on the list but later removed, would be a vastly better choice.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominated once for removal before, and got much support, 7 in fact but just fell short. (see here). In fact vote was 6-3 for about 2 weeks in early November, which could have been closed as a pass by today's rules, but not then. That general area of history is covered by many biographies and other articles, and there are other more important articles missing. See is known primarily for one speech, which is fairly well known but not vital, and her other work and her influence are not the same importance as other people listed. Also article woman's rights failed (see here) which is one idea she supported. Articles like racial segregation are missing too, and I think may be worth considering. Carl wev 18:00, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Currently all the suffragettes on the list are Americans, which does not reflect the worldwide nature of the movement. Emmeline Pankhurst became world-famous for her advocacy of militant tactics in the fight for women's suffrage in Britain. Malcolm X is listed; she should be as well.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Since core region of the ancient state Chu (楚) consisted of what is now Hubei and Hunan, Hubei is the province in which the vital city Wuchang belongs to, and some vital figures, e.g. Mao Zedong and Peng Dehuai were born there, hence both Hubei and Hunan are crucial.
FWIW, I believe Madhya Pradesh and Karnataka are the only other country subdivisions worth adding on the basis of a similar comparison in cultural/demographic terms with other Indian states. I also think Goa and Penang should be added but that's by analogy with Macau and other historical trading ports on the list. I could accept adding some country subdivisions mainly on the basis of physical size. Cobblet ( talk) 04:33, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
This province should be added to the list, since many Overseas Chinese persons come from there.
The geography section needs some serious rethinking, and I'd like to see some subnational entities (re)-added to the list, e.g. all of the Chinese provinces Rekishi mentions are more vital than Hainan (although that doesn't necessarily mean they should be added – some of the major cities in these provinces like Ningbo or Xiamen might be better choices); I'd argue Tasmania is the least vital of Australian states; that we consider Sierra Nevada (U.S.) vital but New York not doesn't make much sense. But after seeing some of my previous proposals fail due to a lack of !votes I'm not sure enough of us have an interest in world geography to get a solid consensus on what should and shouldn't be considered a vital geography article. Cobblet ( talk) 19:44, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This U.S. state is vital, since it is the heart of Dixie.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The fact that this city is abundant in oil makes it crucial.
Aberdeen isn't the next UK city to add to the list IMO. As far as Scottish geography goes, I think it's better to consider Shetland or Scottish Highlands first (swap with Loch Ness Monster?) because these parts are historically and culturally distinct from mainstream Scotland. Gizza ( t)( c) 10:05, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
I've been thinking about cities. UK cities that have crossed my mind are Bristol, Belfast, Newcastle upon Tyne, Sheffield; Bristol I think is the better choice. I look at the Global city article for some ideas there are more UK cities there like the ones I just mentioned plus Nottingham, Southampton and Aberdeen too, I think they seem lower priority. (It is only a rough guide though, it appears to favour industry and business over history and culture Tel Aviv is higher than Jerusalem, and it seems capital cities are favoured too like Luxembourg City and Port Louis are listed there) Other cities mentioned there I like the sound of are ones like: Gothenberg, Antwerp, Calgary, Liepzig, Porto, Malmo, Adelaide
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The paradigm by which East Asian society handles the concept of self-esteem. Similar to honour in that the motivating emotion is shame, but whereas in honour cultures shame falls on the person who's lost their honour, shame in face cultures falls on the person who causes another to lose face.
I think dignity, face and honour should be placed in the same section, probably sociology. Cobblet ( talk) 20:48, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
In a modern context "temperament" is basically a component of personality and is studied as part of personality psychology. With both of those articles on the list I think we can afford to do without this one. The historical concept of four temperaments is less vital than the four classical elements which itself is not a topic we list.
Attention refers to one's ability to focus or concentrate on something and has been studied by psychologists since the 19th century. It has huge implications on the study of mental health – you can't have a discussion on attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (which we also list) if you don't talk about the neurological basis of attention first. Issues related to multitasking are also part of the study of attention.
I support adding attention, IMO it's better than temperament, but I'm still thinking about whether we need temperament or not, it's true it does overlap personality, but I'm not sure if it's completely redundant, until I read through them a little more. Carl wev 09:31, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A concept pretty much universal to majority of, if not, all cultures. It is important to and has had much representation in literature, religion, law, philosophy, and social sciences historically and up to modern day. Not sure if this belongs in the social/psychology section or the philosophy section, as it relevant to both. I would support putting it in either section. Carl wev 14:07, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Lack of empathy ought to be covered by empathy and psychopathy.
The two unlisted members of the dark triad, narcissism and Machiavellianism, might be more vital. Cobblet ( talk) 01:36, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Both are no doubt vital, though somewhat less important than cigarette since they are not consumed that widely.
At least cigar has history. Electronic cigarette is very non-vital. Gizza ( t)( c) 01:10, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
There have been a lot of MLB players chewing tobacco.
The fact that there have been lots of MLB players chewing tobacco guarantees its vitality.-- RekishiEJ ( talk) 14:24, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Cobblet keeps mentioning this as a marginal piece that should be considered before other pieces that I have nominated. The fact that this discussion has not been held should not be a reason to oppose other works. Let's have the discussion.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:20, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
We already have
Nighthawks. Is it really more important to add a second third American painting than something like
The School of Athens?
Cobblet (
talk)
23:31, 3 October 2015 (UTC)