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When I saw the list of scientists, I saw that one of the major name whose major contribution was in astrophysics, was missing from the list. Chandrasekhar worked in various areas, including stellar structure, theory of white dwarfs, stellar dynamics, theory of radiative transfer, quantum theory of the Hydrogen anion, hydrodynamic and hydromagnetic stability, equilibrium and the stability of ellipsoidal figures of equilibrium, general relativity, mathematical theory of black holes and theory of colliding gravitational waves. He was awarded the 1983 Nobel Prize for Physics for his mathematical theory of black holes, which was a key discovery that led to the currently accepted theory on the later evolutionary stages of massive stars. So, I propose his name to be included in the list.
@ Logical1004:, would you consider Chandrasekhar more vital than C. V. Raman? Gizza ( t)( c) 02:19, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
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South Asia's history in the post-classical era is bizarrely underrepresented – West, Central and Southeast Asia each get 7-8 articles but South Asia gets only 3. I suggest adding the overview article for this period of India's history as a first step toward fixing this imbalance. I'd like to pick some specific states or events to add, but frankly this period of Indian history is too complicated for me to understand well enough to make reasonable suggestions.
I understand your concerns but the Middle Kingdoms articles is probably too listy to be vital. Gurjara-Pratihara and Hoysala Empire are options for the North and South respectively. Other choices include Chera kingdom and Pala Empire. Although a bit before this time period, Sramana would be a good choice for non-political or military history. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:34, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
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It's the most heavily traveled bridge in the world with almost 300,000 vehicles traveling across it daily. It is also the primary bridge between New Jersey and New York, and as part of Interstate 95, is part of the Atlantic superhighway. The bridge is also a double-decked bridge, a style of bridge rarely seen in the world except in populated metro area like New York. The bridge is also a National Historic Civil Engineering Landmark as an 83 year-old bridge. The bridge is also almost a mile long in length.
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None of Borneo's cities, be they Samarinda, Pontianak, Banjarmasin, Kuching or Kota Kinabalu, are all that important; if we had to add something back on the subject of Borneo's human geography I'd suggest Sabah and Sarawak. But I think the most important cultural centre of Indonesia needs to be added first. It is famous for the goods it produces ( batik and silverwork), its temples ( Borobudur and Prambanan) and its history (location of the Medang Kingdom, one of Indonesia's earliest; and played an essential role in Indonesia's fight for independence). Frankly, it is more vital than half the Indonesian cities we list.
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We need to represent most of the individual mythologies with the appropriate amount of articles in each mythology, and for all the possible new articles we should take a total of about 20 slots from other sections and transfer it to the philosophy and religion section. Any ideas on which sections should be deprived of quota size? Gonzales John ( talk) 12:32, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
I Oppose to this, as I don't think as many deities should be added as you suggested. With two/three more Greek deities being removed soon, I think we have plenty of room to add more deities - around six of them. Unless, of course, if we are planning to add more religious topics, I don't think we need to increase our quota, and definitely not extensively ~ Mable ( chat) 13:50, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
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As to increase the variety of articles we list, listing the Berber mythology would be a good addition. Currently, there are around 30 millions Berber people, an ethnicity indigenous to North Africa. Influenced by various African mythologies as well as Islam and Arab mythology, the Berber mythology is an interesting mix of various historical beliefs. Mainly, listing the entirety of the Berber mythology gives a much wider image of mythology as a whole then any specific deity can.
We may not need Korean mythology on the list too. How distinct is it from Chinese mythology, Japanese mythology and Shamanism? Gizza ( t)( c) 03:25, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
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Necessary to represent Slavic mythology. Gonzales John ( talk) 12:28, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
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Necessary to represent Korean mythology. Gonzales John ( talk) 12:12, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
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Seemingly the most significant figures in Celtic Polytheism. Gonzales John ( talk) 11:51, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
We can't possibly add all of these - Celtic mythology on its own is simply not vital enough to include so many articles. I'd suggest cutting at least half of the out and see what we can do with what's left. Then again, my knowledge of Celtic Polytheism is quite limited. ~ Mable ( chat) 13:40, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
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There are only two greek tragedies in the literature section, Aeschylus' Oresteia and Sophocles' Oedipus Rex, Euripides is not represented inspite of the fact that his Medea is the most performed tragedy over the past two centuries, and in spite of being considered "the most tragic of the tragedians". Jason is a minor figure in Greek mythology, and today is mostly known exactly for his role in Euripides' Medea.
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Vital in the advancement of all scientific disciplines and therefore vital for the knowledge of mankind.-- Melody Lavender 11:00, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
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Basic ability that should be taught during education. Not sure if this is the right category. Problem solving is a very basic human ability that has an effect on human life in many area. Might fit better in psychology. -- Melody Lavender 11:04, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
This is slightly covered under cognition. And there are related topics at a similar level of vitality like decision making. Not quite as well-defined as memory or knowledge. Hard to say. Gizza ( t)( c) 05:27, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
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We don't have many logistics topics and military logistics is really the least vital of them all. The Military section is well covered, there is more on the topic in the technology sector, and this is one of the weakest articles. MilHist Project hasn't given it much attention and it hasn't rated its importance. Gets a sensational 1 (in words: one) page hits per day. -- Melody Lavender 21:39, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
This is weird, somewhere in the back of my mind, I keep hearing that it is the most important aspect of grand strategic warfare, but the article indeed does not reflect that... Perhaps it's simply not vital because of strategy or something along those lines? I'm simply perplexed to see it here...~ Mable ( chat) 19:57, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
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A vital part of the nervous system that is way too significant and important not to be listed here. Gonzales John ( talk) 11:02, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
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The body part where embryos grow and develop into babies. Surely this is a topic too significant and vital not to be included. Gonzales John ( talk) 10:53, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
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Extremely important to modern agriculture, includes everything from Roundup Ready varieties, Bt varieties (which have reduced insecticide spray use), virus resistant papaya (almost all papayas grown in Hawaii are GMO virus resistant), and even golden rice.
Please nominator - sign and support your proposal. -- Melody Lavender 18:14, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
I tried typing just genetically modified, it redirects to genetically modified organism. Would this be better? at first glance it looks like it maybe? We also have Genetic engineering at lev 3 and 4. But it's an important topic so could have more than 1 article. Maybe we could have the crop and organism articles? Carl wev 19:32, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
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This form of communication is older than email ( telex) and is just as common nowadays. A number of people have suggested removing Twitter: perhaps replacing the company with its raison d'être is the way to go.
"I'm not sure if we need text messaging along with short message service (SMS)" ....Just so you know we don't have short message service (SMS), I don't think we ever have, and I believe it's never been proposed either, although it may have been mentioned in discussions. Carl wev 17:52, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
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Atropatene is just one of the many satrapies that were formed after the collapse of Alexander the Great's empire. I propose replacing it with the article on the wars that led to its creation, which occurred over a 47-year period and radically transformed the geopolitics of the Middle East.
I definitely agree that the Wars of the Diadochi are more vital than Atropatene, but shouldn't the wars that initiated the spread of Hellenistic culture be even more vital? Sure, it's a bit redundant to Alexander the Great himself, but we do list Napoleon along with the Napoleonic Wars and Hernán Cortés along with the Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire. Malerisch ( talk) 06:30, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
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If time travel is included, then the book that created and popularized the concept of travelling through time using a time machine should be included. Also, aside from being one of the first science fiction novels in general, it has also been regarded as a political book, used by Wells to protest against the status of society back then (there was no middle class; only significantly different upper and lower classes)(from the supplementary material in a "illuminated by practical scholarship" edition of The time Machine by Benjamin Beard and Cynthia Brantley Johnson). Gonzales John ( talk) 07:41, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
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Necessary to represent Persian mythology. Gonzales John ( talk) 12:23, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Maybe it fits better under the religion of Zoroastrianism rather than Persian mythology but I would have Ahura Mazda listed before all of these articles. Gizza ( t)( c) 12:36, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
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Essential article about Hindu mythology. Gonzales John ( talk) 12:00, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Dashavatara could well be redundant to avatar. The biggest hole in Hinduism/Hindu mythology currently is the lack of goddesses. Goddess worship is very prominent in the religion. The next to be added would be Durga or Lakshmi. To be honest, both of them should be listed before Brahma who can be removed in case space needs to be made. Gizza ( t)( c) 13:10, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
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Definitely more significant than Ares and Hermes, both of whom are included. Even though Greek-Roman mythology is very over-represented, Medea is likely to be removed, so I think it is just fine to add Demeter. Also, Demeter seems more significant than most of the heroes listed. User:Gonzales John 23 December 2014
@ Gonzales John: as you say Greek mythology in general is over-represented. I prefer removing a few more Greek deities and heroes before adding some. There are living mythologies with virtually no representation and should be of a higher priority. Alternatively, we can raise the philosophy and religion quota from 425 to 450. Then there might be space for a tiny increase to Greek mythology but most of the increase should go to other sections of the list. That would mean reducing the quota from somewhere else though. Gizza ( t)( c) 01:56, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
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No doubt they are crucial.
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It is indeed a crucial psychological article.
Human nature is much more a phylosophical concept than a psychological one. Regardless, I have to think about it. ~ Mable ( chat) 09:19, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
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Is it really possible to have a concept of a society without a concept of variation in values among its members? Twin study after twin study after twin study has demonstrated that variation in values is somewhat heritable. Evaluative diversity is even seen in non-human species, and among computer algorithms. Societies include people of diverse evaluative types (whether you call them political orientations, or moral personalities, or vocational inclinations), and societies segregate and discriminate based on such diversity, as with racial diversity. Crucially, sexism and racism must be distinguished from evaluativism, lest we create sexist and racist stereotypes. Academia is nebulous, so it can include this vital concept without settling on any single name for it, but the list of vital articles will be incomplete if it does not pick a name. Langchri ( talk) 02:49, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
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Wood is usually used to refer to the dead material harvested from tree trunks, and thus, it would be better to move it to technology, since wood is an extremely important tool. Besides, it is listed under technology in the level 3 list, so to avoid confusion, we should move it there.
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Biological systematics fully includes Taxonomy.
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It seems odd that Dimetrodon is listed, but the group it falls under is not, and if Pelycosaur if added , then Therapsid, which includes the group of synapsids between Pelycosaurs and mammals, should also be included. Gonzales John 23 December 2014
Sometimes the genus is much more notable than the taxonomic groups it belongs to. I'd rather see taxa of dinosaurs or other Mesozoic-Era reptiles added rather than these. Cobblet ( talk) 23:05, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
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Endive is not a particularly significant plant anywhere in the world. It is related to the more well known chicory which is already listed. Like ninja, vanilla is a word that is frequently mentioned but not many have a good understanding of the plant and flavour extracted from it, which is the job of an encyclopedia. Gizza ( t)( c) 02:31, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I don't think chicory is vital either. Cobblet ( talk) 10:27, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
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Fire is already covered under chemistry through Combustion. Both fire and electricity should be listed under technology since that is where they are listed at in the level 2 and level 3 lists.
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Non-notable variety of quartz. Low-importance to WikiProject Geology. The only vital varieties are opal and quartz itself. In fact, amethyst and jasper are better known quartz varieties because of their use in jewellery though still not vital.
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Subsumed by screw (simple machine). We don't list wrench in addition to nut (hardware) either.
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We list no containers of any kind. Pouches made of natural skins or fibres have existed since the beginning of civilization; paper bags date to the Tang Dynasty; plastic bags are currently the scum of the Earth (literally).
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Basketry is one of the oldest technologies and is attested in many civilizations. Bags are a kind of non-rigid container; let's add a rigid container as well.
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Less notable than the other space exploration agencies.
Looking at these space agencies from another perspective, they're the only subtopics we have on the governments of specific nations. We list no other types of government agencies and no political parties, and IMO this could be considered a technological bias. Why is the China National Space Administration more vital than the Communist Party of China, for example? Malerisch ( talk) 06:07, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
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Proposal: Allow proposals that have no reasonable chance of passing (something like 1-4+ or 2-5+, the details can be chosen later) and do not have any current discussion to be closed after 15 days.
Rationale: We have a lot of discussions open right now, and this is making it hard for users to find the discussions that are most in need of input. Many discussions end in no consensus from not having any discussion at all or not getting that fifth support even though there are no opposes. One way to alleviate this is to reduce the number of open discussions by failing proposals that clearly don't have any chance of passing. Once a proposal has 4 opposes after 15 days, it needs to gather 7 additional supports in 15 days to pass, which is just not realistic. Of course, if there is any helpful discussion going on, it should be exempt from being closed early. This new condition for closing discussions will allow for us to clean up and shorten the page and will break the current trend that seems to be "immediately get a proposal to 1-3+ and then proceed to leave it there untouched for a month." Jucchan ( talk) 19:43, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I think if anything's 0-5, it should be closed immediately. For something like that to pass, it'd need to go 10-0 to pass. p b p 21:18, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I think it should be something of an inverse to the current passing rule:if there are already at least three opposes and the number of supporting votes does not exceed one-third of the current vote tally(such as 1-3, 2-7,1-4) after 15 days, then it should be closed as failed, unless a discussion is going on. Gonzales John ( talk) 11:25, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
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Given the nature of wikipedia and how wikipedian vitality differs from traditional encyclopedic vitality. I suggest that we make a separate section for pop culture references and allocate 250 slots to it. This section would contain topics that have high views, or high degrees of vitality within contemporary popculture, but which fall outside of traditional ideas of core coverage - topics from Picachu, Godzilla, Startrek, Cosplay to anime, popmusicians, actors, Harry Potter films etc. We can move some of the current popculture topics to it and then start a process of adding. This gives us a way of satisfying both the need to include classical topics with the fact that wikipedia and its readership is in many ways different. Given that we are currently 200 topics below the 10,000 limit I think this is a reasonable way to spend the quota. Such a section could include certain brands and franchises as well.
Fascinating idea, and somewhat brilliant! Actually, I think it might be the best idea to make this an entirely separate list. A "250 most vital pop-culture-related articles" or something along those lines is definitely a project I would help with. However, on this list, I have to wonder whether it would be a good idea. pop culture is vital for Wikipedia, but it is not particularly vital for encyclopedias in general. It again depends on what this list is based on... ~ Mable ( chat) 09:39, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
I was thinking about some loose guidelines, and this might seem extreme, but on the other hand, I think it makes sense. First, everything that happened or came into existence in the past 100 years is automatically considered recentism (thus qualifies for the section). Then, we exempt everything that can reasonably be considered to stay vital for another 150 years. This way, all popular music and film automatically fall under this category. However, important leaders, wars and vital events will stay in. Perhaps
the Beatles would end up in the pop culture section, but get moved to the normal music section in fifty years. "pop music" and its genres, "film" and things about the development of film and "video games" would remain in their normal sections. Also, this way, the pop culture section won't be filled with short-lived fads, as they still have to fight against
Star Wars and
Pokémon. Bit extreme perhaps, but thoughts? ~
Mable (
chat)
11:12, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
I still can't think of any topics that would be an issue when you use my idea of categorization right now other than most very old films. Do any of you have any ideas for what articles could fall into a grey area when using my guidelines? Either way, it could be useful for going through a mass move right away without having to get consensus for all the obvious stuff. ~ Mable ( chat) 07:53, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
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We removed monarch recently which makes me question whether any type of monarch is vital. Ancient Egypt's well represented on the list – we've got the major historical periods, some of the notable archaeological sites, and we list many individual pharaohs as well. Our coverage of the history of sub-Saharan Africa is much poorer; I suggest adding the most well-known of its early civilizations.
"King" and "Pharaoh" are actually quite comparable - this was the kind of situation I was afraid of back when we removed monarch... ~ Mable ( chat) 17:15, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
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Surprised to hear that this was on the list. I'm unable to find out when it was added by looking through the archives. Sure, it's something we'll still remember 20 years from now and it was horrible for the people living there, but it really isn't as notable as media is making it out to be (as often is the case). Also, any opinions on these: 1976 Tangshan earthquake, 1970 Bhola cyclone, and 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami? I don't know too much of these natural disasters, but I can't help but wonder how important they are. ~ Mable ( chat) 09:26, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
This article was added all the way back in June 2010 see here. Just a few months after the disaster. Gizza ( t)( c) 12:11, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
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No doubt they are as vital as history of psychology, history of sociology and history of economic thought.
History of political science is definitely more vital than history of computing hardware and history of aviation, which are the only specific technology articles with their histories listed. Gizza ( t)( c) 23:48, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
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Greater Antilles is another geographical term with little cultural significance on its own: Cuba, Hispaniola, Jamaica and Puerto Rico are all individually included on the list. In its place I suggest adding two of the most populous and historically important islands in the Lesser Antilles – such was their significance to the French economy that France traded all of New France to Britain in the Treaty of Paris (1763) just to retain control over them. They are as important as any of the independent Caribbean islands.
Most offshore financial centres aren't listed. If you feel the Cayman Islands are vital, how do you feel about Bermuda, the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands or the Virgin Islands, none of which are listed either? Cobblet ( talk) 08:39, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
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The two lakes in northeastern Europe (we already have Lake Ladoga, Lake Onega and Vänern, Europe's three largest lakes which are all in the same general region) are much less vital than the largest reservoirs in the world by area and volume, whose hydroelectricity and fisheries are the lifeblood of the African countries that surround them.
I should add that both reservoirs are much larger than the lakes in Europe in terms of both surface area and volume – they are simply much more notable geographical features. Within African lakes, they are also definitely more vital than Lake Mweru which is currently listed. Cobblet ( talk) 13:03, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
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The mountain range in northern Bulgaria is less vital than the collection of volcanoes that surrounds (and threatens) Mexico's population core, including Mexico City. Famous mountains in the range are Pico de Orizaba, North America's third tallest mountain; Popocatépetl and Iztaccihuatl, well-known subjects of Aztec myth, and Parícutin, the little volcano that could. None of those mountains are currently listed.
We have nothing on Mexico's physical geography besides the Chihuahuan Desert and the Yucatan and Baja Californian peninsulas; a bit strange given the size of the country and how much more can be said about its terrain. We list none of the major uplands in Mexico ( Sierra Madre Occidental, Sierra Madre Oriental, Sierra Madre del Sur, Mexican Plateau), yet we list Sierra Nevada in California, which is smaller than all the Mexican regions I just mentioned. Mexico is the 14th largest country in the world; for the 13th largest country (Saudi Arabia) we list not only the Arabian Desert but also the cultural areas of Najd, Hejaz and Eastern Arabia; and for the 15th largest country (Indonesia) we list eight major islands/island groups and two notable regions ( Aceh and Papua). Cobblet ( talk) 12:50, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
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Composed around 711-712CE, the Kojiki is the oldest extant Japanese chronicle, providing much of the inspiration for Shinto practices and myths. Top importance in WikiProject Japan. Jucchan ( talk) 19:49, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
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The comic strip and the comic book are the two basic divisions of comics and I think they should be included. I also think they are more relevant than the included Manga(which is just basically comics in the Japanese language). User:Gonzales John 18:30, 01 December 2014
You don't have to support your own suggestion, but it is definitely common practice :) You're also completely allowed to simply start a topic for discussion as you did, but I felt that support-oppose-discuss-thingy(TM) was appropriate. ~ Maplestrip ( chat) 12:16, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
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As vital as Utopia. Gonzales John ( talk) 13:09, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
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No less crucial than herbivore or carnivore, however it is currently not on the list.
You have an interesting quirk of stating the opposite of what you mean; "it is currently on the list" should be "it is currently not on the list," for example. I'm curious why that is? ~ Maplestrip ( chat) 14:39, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
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The first Latin American (and Brazilian) to be nominated for Best Actress in a Leading Role, as well as the first to be nominated for a Portuguese-speaking role during the Academy Awards. Gabriel Yuji ( talk) 22:37, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
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Probably the most influential and notable bands from the punk scene, their importance can be compared to that of Nirvana, except that the Ramones did alternative music about 15 years earlier, influencing many who came after them. Someone mentioned that we are lacking punk rock topics, so this and Never Mind the Bollocks might be excellent additions, and won't put too much weight on the genre either.
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He was an Austrian-American pioneer in the field of public relations and propaganda, referred to in his obituary as "the father of public relations". He combined the ideas of Gustave Le Bon and Wilfred Trotter on crowd psychology with the psychoanalytical ideas of his uncle, Sigmund Freud.
He felt this manipulation was necessary in society, which he regarded as irrational and dangerous as a result of the "herd instinct" that Trotter had described. Adam Curtis's award-winning 2002 documentary for the BBC, The Century of the Self, pinpoints Bernays as the originator of modern public relations, and Bernays was named one of the 100 most influential Americans of the 20th century by Life magazine.
Yeah, interesting proposal. Sure I'm tempted to support but it's insane to include him before public relations, a field which he has literally invented. Bernays most certainly would have wanted PR on the list. Public relations (PR) is currently listed for addition here: Wikipedia_talk:Vital_articles/Expanded#Add_public_relations and not even receiving enough support to make it on the list - so how can Bernays be vital, if PR isn't?-- Melody Lavender 06:31, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
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Eduard Bernstein (6 January 1850 – 18 December 1932) was a German social democratic political theorist and politician, a member of the Social Democratic Party (SPD), and the founder of evolutionary socialism, social democracy and revisionism. Bernstein had held close association to Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, but he saw flaws in Marxist thinking and began to criticize views held by Marxism when he investigated and challenged the Marxist materialist theory of history. He rejected significant parts of Marxist theory that were based upon Hegelian metaphysics; he rejected the Hegelian dialectical perspective.
Bernstein distinguished between early Marxism as being its immature form: as exemplified by The Communist Manifesto written by Marx and Engels in their youth, that he opposed for what he regarded as its violent Blanquist tendencies; and later Marxism as being its mature form that he supported. This mature form of Marxism refers to Marx in his later life acknowledging that socialism could be achieved through peaceful means through legislative reform in democratic societies. Without the need for a revolution, Bernstein stated that ethics could be restored to socialism in a capitalist system, with the state as a pivotal asset to the workers.
@ Maunus: It seems a little silly to oppose a nomination because of a copypaste job. Certainly annoying of course. If you want a rationale, would being the founder of Social Democracy work for you? PointsofNoReturn ( talk) 23:44, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
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IMO the life, deeds and character of a person must be notable in order for their biography to be vital. Looking at it that way, there's no question in my mind that Marie Antoinette is much more vital than Franz Ferdinand, even though both died under famous circumstances. Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria would be a better choice for the list than the Archduke's biography (it gets about the same number of hits, in case you're wondering).
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We have the major generals of most of the other principal belligerents in World War II: Monty, Ike, Tojo, Zhukov, MacArthur… We even Helmuth von Moltke the Elder; how could we not have these two? (Note 1: I am not a Fascist, just a guy who’s noticed that Germany’s pretty poorly covered)(Note 2: I would be open to removing Moltke for these two) p b p 00:01, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Rommel is already listed in this section. Cobblet ( talk) 00:09, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
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We already list the empire founded by the Khitans (the Liao dynasty) and there's no need to double-list the people – we don't list Jurchen people alongside Jin dynasty (1115–1234) for example. The An Lushan rebellion was by far the most destructive conflict in the history of the world up until that point: conservative estimates place the death toll at 13 million, roughly 6% of the world's entire population at the time. The event ultimately led to the collapse of the Tang dynasty and marked the beginning of a long gradual decline in Chinese civilization. It is the most dramatic turning point in China's history between the establishment of the Qin Dynasty and the 20th-century revolutions.
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I don't think we need both the Treaty of Paris and the Congress of Vienna and the latter is clearly much more notable. Similarly, I don't think it's absolutely necessary to list the Treaty of Zaragoza when Treaty of Tordesillas is listed and covers the Zaragoza treaty as well. If we don't have room for Treaty of Verdun and Peace of Westphalia, I don't see the need for such redundancies in coverage.
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The French Role in colonizing the Americas is also important. The French colonized New France, which extended from Quebec all the way to New Orleans. French influence can still be seen in cities like Montreal and New Orleans. If anything, the French role in colonization is equally important to the role of other colonizers in the region.
I'd love to support this and the next nomination, as I think Points is absolutely right that the French and Portuguese played just as vital a role as the British and Spanish in colonizing the New World. Also I'd like the list to have better coverage of the history of the Western Hemisphere. But I find it hard to reconcile my desire to support these proposals with the fact that in no other region of the world that experienced European colonialism do we have articles detailing the influence of each European nation on that region. Perhaps my suggestion of adding colonial nations isn't the best way of doing this either (for one thing, I neglected to suggest Colonial Brazil), but at least there's a parallel with some articles already on the list like Congo Free State or Dutch East Indies and French Indochina, even if our coverage of the colonial history of other parts of the world is also incomplete. Cobblet ( talk) 22:43, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
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Per Malerisch comment above, which I will just go ahead and copy:
[T]he Nanking Massacre holds far more cultural and political impact than the 1976 Tangshan earthquake ever will, and surely it's a less important topic of modern China than the Great Chinese Famine? The 1970 Bhola cyclone isn't as vital as the genocide that occurred a year later, and both are subsumed to a certain extent by the Bangladesh Liberation War. The two countries that were affected the most by the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami, Indonesia and Sri Lanka, each have more vital topics like the Indonesian killings of 1965–66 and Sri Lankan Civil War missing. I'd also swap the 1931 China floods, which are also listed, with the Republic of China (1912–49). Malerisch ( talk) 09:38, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
I'll keep these suggestions separate from the Haiti earthquake for no real reason, though hopefully it make discussion somewhat clearer :p
On a related point, our coverage of general natural disasters is inadequate. Why are earthquake, volcano, tornado and tropical cyclone listed as vital at Level 3 when landslide, heat wave and wildfire are not even listed at Level 4? In many parts of the world, these are the most dangerous and notable of natural disasters. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:58, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
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The "unrecognized or largely unrecognized states" section includes one entity that isn't recognized by any other country at all ( Somaliland), two that are only recognized by other largely unrecognized countries ( Nagorno-Karabakh and Transnistria recognize each other, and Abkhazia and South Ossetia recognize them as well), and one that is recognized by only one other country (Turkey recognizes Northern Cyprus). None of these states are affiliated with the UN in any way. By contrast, the Cook Islands and Niue are formally recognized as independent by seven and four countries respectively, and both are members of several UN agencies – see List of sovereign states for a fuller description and comparison with other states. I think we should add these entities on the list even though New Zealand doesn't recognize them as being fully independent.
Somaliland fits better with the likes of Tibet and Chechnya as an autonomous region. Gizza ( t)( c) 00:51, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
@Maplestrip: I think if there's one area of the list where we should list every single member of a large group, it's probably countries. Most of the unrecognized states are the result of frozen conflicts and are noteworthy for that reason anyway. These two aren't, but I'm not really interested in getting into debates about whether Niue and the Cook Islands are more or less vital than, say, Nauru or Palau. As List of sovereign states#Criteria for inclusion explains, these entities can be considered to be sovereign states by one common theory in international law, and that's good enough for me. Cobblet ( talk) 08:57, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
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Hugh omission. This article is crucial since Persian architecture had been of high level before the birth of Islam.
The article should probably be split. It's mostly about ancient Persian architecture and about 10 sentences Iranian. -- Melody Lavender 15:16, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
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We have paint and carpet, but not wallpaper on the list, which sounds quite strange, as many people use wallpapers to decorate their homes.
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These three should be added not only because they are important body parts, but also because the excretion of urine and feces in vertebrates evolved over time. Gonzales John ( talk) 11:12, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
If anus is going to be added, then cloaca should be added since non-mammalian vertebrates excrete feces and urine through the cloaca and not through a separated anus; in turn, if we are going to add cloaca, then urethra should be added since mammals don't have cloacas. Gonzales John ( talk) 05:49, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
More a question than a suggestion for now. We currently list The Times, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post and Le Monde (forgive my lack of italics). As a Dutch person, I have hard of most, if not all of these, but I find it hard to imagine that they are in any way vital to explain in an encyclopedia. It might be a cultural thing, but to me, newspapers definitely aren't important; the news they deliver is. Also, these papers are completely unimportant if you don't live within the region in which it is spread. Again, as a Dutch person, I wouldn't come into contact with these newspapers much in my life.
Do note that I don't feel the same way about magazines. Magazines are made to give opinions and define culture. Many of the magazines listed are also spread internationally, such as Playboy and National Geographic, much like television programs. Please give your opinion on the matter. ~ Mable ( chat) 09:14, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
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Per conversation above, his life is not vital, but his death certainly is. Causes of World War I and Causes of World War II are still other interesting possibilities, so feel free to discuss those as well.
I think the causes articles are better choices. The assassination of the Archduke was of course the trigger for the war, but its causes went much deeper. There is a danger of focusing of the immediate casus belli at the expense of the more complex causes of the war. Equally I would think the causes of WWII article a better choice than the German invasion of Poland. I also note that the causes of both world wars have been major subjects of historiographical debate, as is evident from the articles. Neljack ( talk) 21:26, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
I have to say that I was thinking the same thing... So I'll probably suggest those two tomorrow *sigh* You know, other people could make suggestions as well sometime :p We'll see whether these things are redundant or not tomorrow ~ Mable ( chat) 21:58, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
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We list almost all the states established by the Bulgars – the First and Second Bulgarian Empires and Volga Bulgaria. The only thing we don't list is Old Great Bulgaria which lasted less than 40 years. In general I think we should avoid double-listing a people and the political entities associated with them unless there's a very good reason to do so.
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The Portuguese had a significant role in colonizing the Americas. They were granted the rights to colonize the area that is now Brazil, effectively colonizing one of the biggest nations in the world. Adding Portuguese colonization to the list accomodates the existence of the Spanish being on the list.
I don't think there is a clear rule on whether the colony or colonization process is more vital. In this case, Colonial Brazil may be better since it was the only Portuguese colony of note in the Americas. The British and Spanish OTOH had many important colonies. Also keep in mind that Portuguese Empire is already listed and Brazil was bigger than all of the other Portuguese colonies combined. Gizza ( t)( c) 00:51, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
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Elegy failed, so I'm proposing this per User:Maunus and User:Maplestrip. Gonzales John ( talk) 04:45, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
There must be many poetic genres more vital than Lament. Ballad springs to mind. Gizza ( t)( c) 02:09, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
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The very center of the philosophies and ideologies of Egyptian Mythology (See Egyptian mythology). Gonzales John ( talk) 11:55, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Major deified mythological figure of Aboriginal mythology. Gonzales John ( talk) 11:22, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
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As stated above in the Kindergarten proposal, these stages of education are the vital topics. Tertiary education and/or higher education may be redundant to university and college.
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A hormone that is centrally implied in producing stress responses, the fight or flight reflex and in the workings of the immune system. Is at least as vital as epinephrine and plant hormone.
Steroid needs to be added first. Cobblet ( talk) 09:28, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
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A caricature is a representation of a person or a type of person made unliteral by the exaggeration of some features as well as the oversimplification of others. The concept is commonly used, especially in editorial cartoons. It has some history to speak about as well. It's definitely an encyclopedic topic, probably vital enough to deserve being listed here. Gonzales John ( talk) 03:56, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
I think you might log out automatically after one month, but I'm not sure how that works. Either way, I'm not sure about this. People do love their caricatures... ~ Mable ( chat) 06:24, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
I have nominated Enzyme for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here.-- Jarodalien ( talk) 07:00, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
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Was prematurely added with the expectation that it will become that next Revolutions of 1989. Recentism. I would consider the Soviet war in Afghanistan and War in Afghanistan (2001 to present) on their own to be more vital than this. Within Africa, the Second Sudanese Civil War trumps this. Gizza ( t)( c) 00:41, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
We do have coverage of those wars in War in Afghanistan (1978–present), though, which we list. Within modern history, I'd rather remove the natural disasters first ( 2010 Haiti earthquake, 1976 Tangshan earthquake, 1970 Bhola cyclone, and 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami). Even within the 20th and 21st centuries alone, they aren't the deadliest natural disasters: at least 1 million people died in the Asian flu of 1957 ( Britannica), another 1 million in the Hong Kong flu of 1968 ( Britannica), 800,000 in the sixth cholera pandemic (1899–1923), 570,000 in the seventh cholera pandemic (1961–75), an estimated 284,500 in the 2009 flu pandemic, and 273,400 in the 1920 Haiyuan earthquake. And it's hard to justify the inclusion of these natural disasters when we're still missing the Plague of Justinian, which killed an estimated 25 to 100 million people (half the population of Europe at the time). Malerisch ( talk) 01:05, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
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Since we are removing Tower Bridge, we could add this one. This bridge is the first arch bridge in the world to be made out of cast iron. It was built from 1777 to 1781 and is celebrated as the first bridge of its kind. Adding this bridge would also add another non-suspension bridge to the list.
This is a disambiguation page. Gizza ( t)( c) 07:41, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
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The modern music section needs more punk and hip hop. Punk and hip hop were the most influential music genres of the last 40 years. Rolling Stone magazine a while back rated this Sex Pistols albums as the 2nd most important rock album after the Beatles' Sgt. Pepper's. Smiloid ( talk) 06:14, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
The modern music section needs more punk and hip hop. Punk and hip hop were the most influential music genres of the last 40 years. Rapper's Delight by the Sugarhill Gang is the single which introduced most of the world to hip hop Smiloid ( talk) 06:48, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
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When I saw the list of scientists, I saw that one of the major name whose major contribution was in astrophysics, was missing from the list. Chandrasekhar worked in various areas, including stellar structure, theory of white dwarfs, stellar dynamics, theory of radiative transfer, quantum theory of the Hydrogen anion, hydrodynamic and hydromagnetic stability, equilibrium and the stability of ellipsoidal figures of equilibrium, general relativity, mathematical theory of black holes and theory of colliding gravitational waves. He was awarded the 1983 Nobel Prize for Physics for his mathematical theory of black holes, which was a key discovery that led to the currently accepted theory on the later evolutionary stages of massive stars. So, I propose his name to be included in the list.
@ Logical1004:, would you consider Chandrasekhar more vital than C. V. Raman? Gizza ( t)( c) 02:19, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
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South Asia's history in the post-classical era is bizarrely underrepresented – West, Central and Southeast Asia each get 7-8 articles but South Asia gets only 3. I suggest adding the overview article for this period of India's history as a first step toward fixing this imbalance. I'd like to pick some specific states or events to add, but frankly this period of Indian history is too complicated for me to understand well enough to make reasonable suggestions.
I understand your concerns but the Middle Kingdoms articles is probably too listy to be vital. Gurjara-Pratihara and Hoysala Empire are options for the North and South respectively. Other choices include Chera kingdom and Pala Empire. Although a bit before this time period, Sramana would be a good choice for non-political or military history. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:34, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
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It's the most heavily traveled bridge in the world with almost 300,000 vehicles traveling across it daily. It is also the primary bridge between New Jersey and New York, and as part of Interstate 95, is part of the Atlantic superhighway. The bridge is also a double-decked bridge, a style of bridge rarely seen in the world except in populated metro area like New York. The bridge is also a National Historic Civil Engineering Landmark as an 83 year-old bridge. The bridge is also almost a mile long in length.
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None of Borneo's cities, be they Samarinda, Pontianak, Banjarmasin, Kuching or Kota Kinabalu, are all that important; if we had to add something back on the subject of Borneo's human geography I'd suggest Sabah and Sarawak. But I think the most important cultural centre of Indonesia needs to be added first. It is famous for the goods it produces ( batik and silverwork), its temples ( Borobudur and Prambanan) and its history (location of the Medang Kingdom, one of Indonesia's earliest; and played an essential role in Indonesia's fight for independence). Frankly, it is more vital than half the Indonesian cities we list.
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We need to represent most of the individual mythologies with the appropriate amount of articles in each mythology, and for all the possible new articles we should take a total of about 20 slots from other sections and transfer it to the philosophy and religion section. Any ideas on which sections should be deprived of quota size? Gonzales John ( talk) 12:32, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
I Oppose to this, as I don't think as many deities should be added as you suggested. With two/three more Greek deities being removed soon, I think we have plenty of room to add more deities - around six of them. Unless, of course, if we are planning to add more religious topics, I don't think we need to increase our quota, and definitely not extensively ~ Mable ( chat) 13:50, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
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As to increase the variety of articles we list, listing the Berber mythology would be a good addition. Currently, there are around 30 millions Berber people, an ethnicity indigenous to North Africa. Influenced by various African mythologies as well as Islam and Arab mythology, the Berber mythology is an interesting mix of various historical beliefs. Mainly, listing the entirety of the Berber mythology gives a much wider image of mythology as a whole then any specific deity can.
We may not need Korean mythology on the list too. How distinct is it from Chinese mythology, Japanese mythology and Shamanism? Gizza ( t)( c) 03:25, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
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Necessary to represent Slavic mythology. Gonzales John ( talk) 12:28, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
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Necessary to represent Korean mythology. Gonzales John ( talk) 12:12, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
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Seemingly the most significant figures in Celtic Polytheism. Gonzales John ( talk) 11:51, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
We can't possibly add all of these - Celtic mythology on its own is simply not vital enough to include so many articles. I'd suggest cutting at least half of the out and see what we can do with what's left. Then again, my knowledge of Celtic Polytheism is quite limited. ~ Mable ( chat) 13:40, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
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There are only two greek tragedies in the literature section, Aeschylus' Oresteia and Sophocles' Oedipus Rex, Euripides is not represented inspite of the fact that his Medea is the most performed tragedy over the past two centuries, and in spite of being considered "the most tragic of the tragedians". Jason is a minor figure in Greek mythology, and today is mostly known exactly for his role in Euripides' Medea.
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Vital in the advancement of all scientific disciplines and therefore vital for the knowledge of mankind.-- Melody Lavender 11:00, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
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Basic ability that should be taught during education. Not sure if this is the right category. Problem solving is a very basic human ability that has an effect on human life in many area. Might fit better in psychology. -- Melody Lavender 11:04, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
This is slightly covered under cognition. And there are related topics at a similar level of vitality like decision making. Not quite as well-defined as memory or knowledge. Hard to say. Gizza ( t)( c) 05:27, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
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We don't have many logistics topics and military logistics is really the least vital of them all. The Military section is well covered, there is more on the topic in the technology sector, and this is one of the weakest articles. MilHist Project hasn't given it much attention and it hasn't rated its importance. Gets a sensational 1 (in words: one) page hits per day. -- Melody Lavender 21:39, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
This is weird, somewhere in the back of my mind, I keep hearing that it is the most important aspect of grand strategic warfare, but the article indeed does not reflect that... Perhaps it's simply not vital because of strategy or something along those lines? I'm simply perplexed to see it here...~ Mable ( chat) 19:57, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
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A vital part of the nervous system that is way too significant and important not to be listed here. Gonzales John ( talk) 11:02, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
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The body part where embryos grow and develop into babies. Surely this is a topic too significant and vital not to be included. Gonzales John ( talk) 10:53, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
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Extremely important to modern agriculture, includes everything from Roundup Ready varieties, Bt varieties (which have reduced insecticide spray use), virus resistant papaya (almost all papayas grown in Hawaii are GMO virus resistant), and even golden rice.
Please nominator - sign and support your proposal. -- Melody Lavender 18:14, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
I tried typing just genetically modified, it redirects to genetically modified organism. Would this be better? at first glance it looks like it maybe? We also have Genetic engineering at lev 3 and 4. But it's an important topic so could have more than 1 article. Maybe we could have the crop and organism articles? Carl wev 19:32, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
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This form of communication is older than email ( telex) and is just as common nowadays. A number of people have suggested removing Twitter: perhaps replacing the company with its raison d'être is the way to go.
"I'm not sure if we need text messaging along with short message service (SMS)" ....Just so you know we don't have short message service (SMS), I don't think we ever have, and I believe it's never been proposed either, although it may have been mentioned in discussions. Carl wev 17:52, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
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Atropatene is just one of the many satrapies that were formed after the collapse of Alexander the Great's empire. I propose replacing it with the article on the wars that led to its creation, which occurred over a 47-year period and radically transformed the geopolitics of the Middle East.
I definitely agree that the Wars of the Diadochi are more vital than Atropatene, but shouldn't the wars that initiated the spread of Hellenistic culture be even more vital? Sure, it's a bit redundant to Alexander the Great himself, but we do list Napoleon along with the Napoleonic Wars and Hernán Cortés along with the Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire. Malerisch ( talk) 06:30, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
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If time travel is included, then the book that created and popularized the concept of travelling through time using a time machine should be included. Also, aside from being one of the first science fiction novels in general, it has also been regarded as a political book, used by Wells to protest against the status of society back then (there was no middle class; only significantly different upper and lower classes)(from the supplementary material in a "illuminated by practical scholarship" edition of The time Machine by Benjamin Beard and Cynthia Brantley Johnson). Gonzales John ( talk) 07:41, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
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Necessary to represent Persian mythology. Gonzales John ( talk) 12:23, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Maybe it fits better under the religion of Zoroastrianism rather than Persian mythology but I would have Ahura Mazda listed before all of these articles. Gizza ( t)( c) 12:36, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
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Essential article about Hindu mythology. Gonzales John ( talk) 12:00, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Dashavatara could well be redundant to avatar. The biggest hole in Hinduism/Hindu mythology currently is the lack of goddesses. Goddess worship is very prominent in the religion. The next to be added would be Durga or Lakshmi. To be honest, both of them should be listed before Brahma who can be removed in case space needs to be made. Gizza ( t)( c) 13:10, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
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Definitely more significant than Ares and Hermes, both of whom are included. Even though Greek-Roman mythology is very over-represented, Medea is likely to be removed, so I think it is just fine to add Demeter. Also, Demeter seems more significant than most of the heroes listed. User:Gonzales John 23 December 2014
@ Gonzales John: as you say Greek mythology in general is over-represented. I prefer removing a few more Greek deities and heroes before adding some. There are living mythologies with virtually no representation and should be of a higher priority. Alternatively, we can raise the philosophy and religion quota from 425 to 450. Then there might be space for a tiny increase to Greek mythology but most of the increase should go to other sections of the list. That would mean reducing the quota from somewhere else though. Gizza ( t)( c) 01:56, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
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No doubt they are crucial.
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It is indeed a crucial psychological article.
Human nature is much more a phylosophical concept than a psychological one. Regardless, I have to think about it. ~ Mable ( chat) 09:19, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
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Is it really possible to have a concept of a society without a concept of variation in values among its members? Twin study after twin study after twin study has demonstrated that variation in values is somewhat heritable. Evaluative diversity is even seen in non-human species, and among computer algorithms. Societies include people of diverse evaluative types (whether you call them political orientations, or moral personalities, or vocational inclinations), and societies segregate and discriminate based on such diversity, as with racial diversity. Crucially, sexism and racism must be distinguished from evaluativism, lest we create sexist and racist stereotypes. Academia is nebulous, so it can include this vital concept without settling on any single name for it, but the list of vital articles will be incomplete if it does not pick a name. Langchri ( talk) 02:49, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
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Wood is usually used to refer to the dead material harvested from tree trunks, and thus, it would be better to move it to technology, since wood is an extremely important tool. Besides, it is listed under technology in the level 3 list, so to avoid confusion, we should move it there.
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Biological systematics fully includes Taxonomy.
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It seems odd that Dimetrodon is listed, but the group it falls under is not, and if Pelycosaur if added , then Therapsid, which includes the group of synapsids between Pelycosaurs and mammals, should also be included. Gonzales John 23 December 2014
Sometimes the genus is much more notable than the taxonomic groups it belongs to. I'd rather see taxa of dinosaurs or other Mesozoic-Era reptiles added rather than these. Cobblet ( talk) 23:05, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
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Endive is not a particularly significant plant anywhere in the world. It is related to the more well known chicory which is already listed. Like ninja, vanilla is a word that is frequently mentioned but not many have a good understanding of the plant and flavour extracted from it, which is the job of an encyclopedia. Gizza ( t)( c) 02:31, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I don't think chicory is vital either. Cobblet ( talk) 10:27, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
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Fire is already covered under chemistry through Combustion. Both fire and electricity should be listed under technology since that is where they are listed at in the level 2 and level 3 lists.
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Non-notable variety of quartz. Low-importance to WikiProject Geology. The only vital varieties are opal and quartz itself. In fact, amethyst and jasper are better known quartz varieties because of their use in jewellery though still not vital.
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Subsumed by screw (simple machine). We don't list wrench in addition to nut (hardware) either.
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We list no containers of any kind. Pouches made of natural skins or fibres have existed since the beginning of civilization; paper bags date to the Tang Dynasty; plastic bags are currently the scum of the Earth (literally).
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Basketry is one of the oldest technologies and is attested in many civilizations. Bags are a kind of non-rigid container; let's add a rigid container as well.
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Less notable than the other space exploration agencies.
Looking at these space agencies from another perspective, they're the only subtopics we have on the governments of specific nations. We list no other types of government agencies and no political parties, and IMO this could be considered a technological bias. Why is the China National Space Administration more vital than the Communist Party of China, for example? Malerisch ( talk) 06:07, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
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Proposal: Allow proposals that have no reasonable chance of passing (something like 1-4+ or 2-5+, the details can be chosen later) and do not have any current discussion to be closed after 15 days.
Rationale: We have a lot of discussions open right now, and this is making it hard for users to find the discussions that are most in need of input. Many discussions end in no consensus from not having any discussion at all or not getting that fifth support even though there are no opposes. One way to alleviate this is to reduce the number of open discussions by failing proposals that clearly don't have any chance of passing. Once a proposal has 4 opposes after 15 days, it needs to gather 7 additional supports in 15 days to pass, which is just not realistic. Of course, if there is any helpful discussion going on, it should be exempt from being closed early. This new condition for closing discussions will allow for us to clean up and shorten the page and will break the current trend that seems to be "immediately get a proposal to 1-3+ and then proceed to leave it there untouched for a month." Jucchan ( talk) 19:43, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I think if anything's 0-5, it should be closed immediately. For something like that to pass, it'd need to go 10-0 to pass. p b p 21:18, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I think it should be something of an inverse to the current passing rule:if there are already at least three opposes and the number of supporting votes does not exceed one-third of the current vote tally(such as 1-3, 2-7,1-4) after 15 days, then it should be closed as failed, unless a discussion is going on. Gonzales John ( talk) 11:25, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
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Given the nature of wikipedia and how wikipedian vitality differs from traditional encyclopedic vitality. I suggest that we make a separate section for pop culture references and allocate 250 slots to it. This section would contain topics that have high views, or high degrees of vitality within contemporary popculture, but which fall outside of traditional ideas of core coverage - topics from Picachu, Godzilla, Startrek, Cosplay to anime, popmusicians, actors, Harry Potter films etc. We can move some of the current popculture topics to it and then start a process of adding. This gives us a way of satisfying both the need to include classical topics with the fact that wikipedia and its readership is in many ways different. Given that we are currently 200 topics below the 10,000 limit I think this is a reasonable way to spend the quota. Such a section could include certain brands and franchises as well.
Fascinating idea, and somewhat brilliant! Actually, I think it might be the best idea to make this an entirely separate list. A "250 most vital pop-culture-related articles" or something along those lines is definitely a project I would help with. However, on this list, I have to wonder whether it would be a good idea. pop culture is vital for Wikipedia, but it is not particularly vital for encyclopedias in general. It again depends on what this list is based on... ~ Mable ( chat) 09:39, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
I was thinking about some loose guidelines, and this might seem extreme, but on the other hand, I think it makes sense. First, everything that happened or came into existence in the past 100 years is automatically considered recentism (thus qualifies for the section). Then, we exempt everything that can reasonably be considered to stay vital for another 150 years. This way, all popular music and film automatically fall under this category. However, important leaders, wars and vital events will stay in. Perhaps
the Beatles would end up in the pop culture section, but get moved to the normal music section in fifty years. "pop music" and its genres, "film" and things about the development of film and "video games" would remain in their normal sections. Also, this way, the pop culture section won't be filled with short-lived fads, as they still have to fight against
Star Wars and
Pokémon. Bit extreme perhaps, but thoughts? ~
Mable (
chat)
11:12, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
I still can't think of any topics that would be an issue when you use my idea of categorization right now other than most very old films. Do any of you have any ideas for what articles could fall into a grey area when using my guidelines? Either way, it could be useful for going through a mass move right away without having to get consensus for all the obvious stuff. ~ Mable ( chat) 07:53, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
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We removed monarch recently which makes me question whether any type of monarch is vital. Ancient Egypt's well represented on the list – we've got the major historical periods, some of the notable archaeological sites, and we list many individual pharaohs as well. Our coverage of the history of sub-Saharan Africa is much poorer; I suggest adding the most well-known of its early civilizations.
"King" and "Pharaoh" are actually quite comparable - this was the kind of situation I was afraid of back when we removed monarch... ~ Mable ( chat) 17:15, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
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Surprised to hear that this was on the list. I'm unable to find out when it was added by looking through the archives. Sure, it's something we'll still remember 20 years from now and it was horrible for the people living there, but it really isn't as notable as media is making it out to be (as often is the case). Also, any opinions on these: 1976 Tangshan earthquake, 1970 Bhola cyclone, and 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami? I don't know too much of these natural disasters, but I can't help but wonder how important they are. ~ Mable ( chat) 09:26, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
This article was added all the way back in June 2010 see here. Just a few months after the disaster. Gizza ( t)( c) 12:11, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
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No doubt they are as vital as history of psychology, history of sociology and history of economic thought.
History of political science is definitely more vital than history of computing hardware and history of aviation, which are the only specific technology articles with their histories listed. Gizza ( t)( c) 23:48, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
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Greater Antilles is another geographical term with little cultural significance on its own: Cuba, Hispaniola, Jamaica and Puerto Rico are all individually included on the list. In its place I suggest adding two of the most populous and historically important islands in the Lesser Antilles – such was their significance to the French economy that France traded all of New France to Britain in the Treaty of Paris (1763) just to retain control over them. They are as important as any of the independent Caribbean islands.
Most offshore financial centres aren't listed. If you feel the Cayman Islands are vital, how do you feel about Bermuda, the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands or the Virgin Islands, none of which are listed either? Cobblet ( talk) 08:39, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
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The two lakes in northeastern Europe (we already have Lake Ladoga, Lake Onega and Vänern, Europe's three largest lakes which are all in the same general region) are much less vital than the largest reservoirs in the world by area and volume, whose hydroelectricity and fisheries are the lifeblood of the African countries that surround them.
I should add that both reservoirs are much larger than the lakes in Europe in terms of both surface area and volume – they are simply much more notable geographical features. Within African lakes, they are also definitely more vital than Lake Mweru which is currently listed. Cobblet ( talk) 13:03, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
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The mountain range in northern Bulgaria is less vital than the collection of volcanoes that surrounds (and threatens) Mexico's population core, including Mexico City. Famous mountains in the range are Pico de Orizaba, North America's third tallest mountain; Popocatépetl and Iztaccihuatl, well-known subjects of Aztec myth, and Parícutin, the little volcano that could. None of those mountains are currently listed.
We have nothing on Mexico's physical geography besides the Chihuahuan Desert and the Yucatan and Baja Californian peninsulas; a bit strange given the size of the country and how much more can be said about its terrain. We list none of the major uplands in Mexico ( Sierra Madre Occidental, Sierra Madre Oriental, Sierra Madre del Sur, Mexican Plateau), yet we list Sierra Nevada in California, which is smaller than all the Mexican regions I just mentioned. Mexico is the 14th largest country in the world; for the 13th largest country (Saudi Arabia) we list not only the Arabian Desert but also the cultural areas of Najd, Hejaz and Eastern Arabia; and for the 15th largest country (Indonesia) we list eight major islands/island groups and two notable regions ( Aceh and Papua). Cobblet ( talk) 12:50, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
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Composed around 711-712CE, the Kojiki is the oldest extant Japanese chronicle, providing much of the inspiration for Shinto practices and myths. Top importance in WikiProject Japan. Jucchan ( talk) 19:49, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
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The comic strip and the comic book are the two basic divisions of comics and I think they should be included. I also think they are more relevant than the included Manga(which is just basically comics in the Japanese language). User:Gonzales John 18:30, 01 December 2014
You don't have to support your own suggestion, but it is definitely common practice :) You're also completely allowed to simply start a topic for discussion as you did, but I felt that support-oppose-discuss-thingy(TM) was appropriate. ~ Maplestrip ( chat) 12:16, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
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As vital as Utopia. Gonzales John ( talk) 13:09, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
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No less crucial than herbivore or carnivore, however it is currently not on the list.
You have an interesting quirk of stating the opposite of what you mean; "it is currently on the list" should be "it is currently not on the list," for example. I'm curious why that is? ~ Maplestrip ( chat) 14:39, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
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The first Latin American (and Brazilian) to be nominated for Best Actress in a Leading Role, as well as the first to be nominated for a Portuguese-speaking role during the Academy Awards. Gabriel Yuji ( talk) 22:37, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
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Probably the most influential and notable bands from the punk scene, their importance can be compared to that of Nirvana, except that the Ramones did alternative music about 15 years earlier, influencing many who came after them. Someone mentioned that we are lacking punk rock topics, so this and Never Mind the Bollocks might be excellent additions, and won't put too much weight on the genre either.
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He was an Austrian-American pioneer in the field of public relations and propaganda, referred to in his obituary as "the father of public relations". He combined the ideas of Gustave Le Bon and Wilfred Trotter on crowd psychology with the psychoanalytical ideas of his uncle, Sigmund Freud.
He felt this manipulation was necessary in society, which he regarded as irrational and dangerous as a result of the "herd instinct" that Trotter had described. Adam Curtis's award-winning 2002 documentary for the BBC, The Century of the Self, pinpoints Bernays as the originator of modern public relations, and Bernays was named one of the 100 most influential Americans of the 20th century by Life magazine.
Yeah, interesting proposal. Sure I'm tempted to support but it's insane to include him before public relations, a field which he has literally invented. Bernays most certainly would have wanted PR on the list. Public relations (PR) is currently listed for addition here: Wikipedia_talk:Vital_articles/Expanded#Add_public_relations and not even receiving enough support to make it on the list - so how can Bernays be vital, if PR isn't?-- Melody Lavender 06:31, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
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Eduard Bernstein (6 January 1850 – 18 December 1932) was a German social democratic political theorist and politician, a member of the Social Democratic Party (SPD), and the founder of evolutionary socialism, social democracy and revisionism. Bernstein had held close association to Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, but he saw flaws in Marxist thinking and began to criticize views held by Marxism when he investigated and challenged the Marxist materialist theory of history. He rejected significant parts of Marxist theory that were based upon Hegelian metaphysics; he rejected the Hegelian dialectical perspective.
Bernstein distinguished between early Marxism as being its immature form: as exemplified by The Communist Manifesto written by Marx and Engels in their youth, that he opposed for what he regarded as its violent Blanquist tendencies; and later Marxism as being its mature form that he supported. This mature form of Marxism refers to Marx in his later life acknowledging that socialism could be achieved through peaceful means through legislative reform in democratic societies. Without the need for a revolution, Bernstein stated that ethics could be restored to socialism in a capitalist system, with the state as a pivotal asset to the workers.
@ Maunus: It seems a little silly to oppose a nomination because of a copypaste job. Certainly annoying of course. If you want a rationale, would being the founder of Social Democracy work for you? PointsofNoReturn ( talk) 23:44, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
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IMO the life, deeds and character of a person must be notable in order for their biography to be vital. Looking at it that way, there's no question in my mind that Marie Antoinette is much more vital than Franz Ferdinand, even though both died under famous circumstances. Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria would be a better choice for the list than the Archduke's biography (it gets about the same number of hits, in case you're wondering).
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We have the major generals of most of the other principal belligerents in World War II: Monty, Ike, Tojo, Zhukov, MacArthur… We even Helmuth von Moltke the Elder; how could we not have these two? (Note 1: I am not a Fascist, just a guy who’s noticed that Germany’s pretty poorly covered)(Note 2: I would be open to removing Moltke for these two) p b p 00:01, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Rommel is already listed in this section. Cobblet ( talk) 00:09, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
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We already list the empire founded by the Khitans (the Liao dynasty) and there's no need to double-list the people – we don't list Jurchen people alongside Jin dynasty (1115–1234) for example. The An Lushan rebellion was by far the most destructive conflict in the history of the world up until that point: conservative estimates place the death toll at 13 million, roughly 6% of the world's entire population at the time. The event ultimately led to the collapse of the Tang dynasty and marked the beginning of a long gradual decline in Chinese civilization. It is the most dramatic turning point in China's history between the establishment of the Qin Dynasty and the 20th-century revolutions.
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I don't think we need both the Treaty of Paris and the Congress of Vienna and the latter is clearly much more notable. Similarly, I don't think it's absolutely necessary to list the Treaty of Zaragoza when Treaty of Tordesillas is listed and covers the Zaragoza treaty as well. If we don't have room for Treaty of Verdun and Peace of Westphalia, I don't see the need for such redundancies in coverage.
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The French Role in colonizing the Americas is also important. The French colonized New France, which extended from Quebec all the way to New Orleans. French influence can still be seen in cities like Montreal and New Orleans. If anything, the French role in colonization is equally important to the role of other colonizers in the region.
I'd love to support this and the next nomination, as I think Points is absolutely right that the French and Portuguese played just as vital a role as the British and Spanish in colonizing the New World. Also I'd like the list to have better coverage of the history of the Western Hemisphere. But I find it hard to reconcile my desire to support these proposals with the fact that in no other region of the world that experienced European colonialism do we have articles detailing the influence of each European nation on that region. Perhaps my suggestion of adding colonial nations isn't the best way of doing this either (for one thing, I neglected to suggest Colonial Brazil), but at least there's a parallel with some articles already on the list like Congo Free State or Dutch East Indies and French Indochina, even if our coverage of the colonial history of other parts of the world is also incomplete. Cobblet ( talk) 22:43, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
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Per Malerisch comment above, which I will just go ahead and copy:
[T]he Nanking Massacre holds far more cultural and political impact than the 1976 Tangshan earthquake ever will, and surely it's a less important topic of modern China than the Great Chinese Famine? The 1970 Bhola cyclone isn't as vital as the genocide that occurred a year later, and both are subsumed to a certain extent by the Bangladesh Liberation War. The two countries that were affected the most by the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami, Indonesia and Sri Lanka, each have more vital topics like the Indonesian killings of 1965–66 and Sri Lankan Civil War missing. I'd also swap the 1931 China floods, which are also listed, with the Republic of China (1912–49). Malerisch ( talk) 09:38, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
I'll keep these suggestions separate from the Haiti earthquake for no real reason, though hopefully it make discussion somewhat clearer :p
On a related point, our coverage of general natural disasters is inadequate. Why are earthquake, volcano, tornado and tropical cyclone listed as vital at Level 3 when landslide, heat wave and wildfire are not even listed at Level 4? In many parts of the world, these are the most dangerous and notable of natural disasters. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:58, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
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The "unrecognized or largely unrecognized states" section includes one entity that isn't recognized by any other country at all ( Somaliland), two that are only recognized by other largely unrecognized countries ( Nagorno-Karabakh and Transnistria recognize each other, and Abkhazia and South Ossetia recognize them as well), and one that is recognized by only one other country (Turkey recognizes Northern Cyprus). None of these states are affiliated with the UN in any way. By contrast, the Cook Islands and Niue are formally recognized as independent by seven and four countries respectively, and both are members of several UN agencies – see List of sovereign states for a fuller description and comparison with other states. I think we should add these entities on the list even though New Zealand doesn't recognize them as being fully independent.
Somaliland fits better with the likes of Tibet and Chechnya as an autonomous region. Gizza ( t)( c) 00:51, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
@Maplestrip: I think if there's one area of the list where we should list every single member of a large group, it's probably countries. Most of the unrecognized states are the result of frozen conflicts and are noteworthy for that reason anyway. These two aren't, but I'm not really interested in getting into debates about whether Niue and the Cook Islands are more or less vital than, say, Nauru or Palau. As List of sovereign states#Criteria for inclusion explains, these entities can be considered to be sovereign states by one common theory in international law, and that's good enough for me. Cobblet ( talk) 08:57, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
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Hugh omission. This article is crucial since Persian architecture had been of high level before the birth of Islam.
The article should probably be split. It's mostly about ancient Persian architecture and about 10 sentences Iranian. -- Melody Lavender 15:16, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
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We have paint and carpet, but not wallpaper on the list, which sounds quite strange, as many people use wallpapers to decorate their homes.
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These three should be added not only because they are important body parts, but also because the excretion of urine and feces in vertebrates evolved over time. Gonzales John ( talk) 11:12, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
If anus is going to be added, then cloaca should be added since non-mammalian vertebrates excrete feces and urine through the cloaca and not through a separated anus; in turn, if we are going to add cloaca, then urethra should be added since mammals don't have cloacas. Gonzales John ( talk) 05:49, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
More a question than a suggestion for now. We currently list The Times, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post and Le Monde (forgive my lack of italics). As a Dutch person, I have hard of most, if not all of these, but I find it hard to imagine that they are in any way vital to explain in an encyclopedia. It might be a cultural thing, but to me, newspapers definitely aren't important; the news they deliver is. Also, these papers are completely unimportant if you don't live within the region in which it is spread. Again, as a Dutch person, I wouldn't come into contact with these newspapers much in my life.
Do note that I don't feel the same way about magazines. Magazines are made to give opinions and define culture. Many of the magazines listed are also spread internationally, such as Playboy and National Geographic, much like television programs. Please give your opinion on the matter. ~ Mable ( chat) 09:14, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
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Per conversation above, his life is not vital, but his death certainly is. Causes of World War I and Causes of World War II are still other interesting possibilities, so feel free to discuss those as well.
I think the causes articles are better choices. The assassination of the Archduke was of course the trigger for the war, but its causes went much deeper. There is a danger of focusing of the immediate casus belli at the expense of the more complex causes of the war. Equally I would think the causes of WWII article a better choice than the German invasion of Poland. I also note that the causes of both world wars have been major subjects of historiographical debate, as is evident from the articles. Neljack ( talk) 21:26, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
I have to say that I was thinking the same thing... So I'll probably suggest those two tomorrow *sigh* You know, other people could make suggestions as well sometime :p We'll see whether these things are redundant or not tomorrow ~ Mable ( chat) 21:58, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
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We list almost all the states established by the Bulgars – the First and Second Bulgarian Empires and Volga Bulgaria. The only thing we don't list is Old Great Bulgaria which lasted less than 40 years. In general I think we should avoid double-listing a people and the political entities associated with them unless there's a very good reason to do so.
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The Portuguese had a significant role in colonizing the Americas. They were granted the rights to colonize the area that is now Brazil, effectively colonizing one of the biggest nations in the world. Adding Portuguese colonization to the list accomodates the existence of the Spanish being on the list.
I don't think there is a clear rule on whether the colony or colonization process is more vital. In this case, Colonial Brazil may be better since it was the only Portuguese colony of note in the Americas. The British and Spanish OTOH had many important colonies. Also keep in mind that Portuguese Empire is already listed and Brazil was bigger than all of the other Portuguese colonies combined. Gizza ( t)( c) 00:51, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
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Elegy failed, so I'm proposing this per User:Maunus and User:Maplestrip. Gonzales John ( talk) 04:45, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
There must be many poetic genres more vital than Lament. Ballad springs to mind. Gizza ( t)( c) 02:09, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
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The very center of the philosophies and ideologies of Egyptian Mythology (See Egyptian mythology). Gonzales John ( talk) 11:55, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Major deified mythological figure of Aboriginal mythology. Gonzales John ( talk) 11:22, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
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As stated above in the Kindergarten proposal, these stages of education are the vital topics. Tertiary education and/or higher education may be redundant to university and college.
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A hormone that is centrally implied in producing stress responses, the fight or flight reflex and in the workings of the immune system. Is at least as vital as epinephrine and plant hormone.
Steroid needs to be added first. Cobblet ( talk) 09:28, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
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A caricature is a representation of a person or a type of person made unliteral by the exaggeration of some features as well as the oversimplification of others. The concept is commonly used, especially in editorial cartoons. It has some history to speak about as well. It's definitely an encyclopedic topic, probably vital enough to deserve being listed here. Gonzales John ( talk) 03:56, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
I think you might log out automatically after one month, but I'm not sure how that works. Either way, I'm not sure about this. People do love their caricatures... ~ Mable ( chat) 06:24, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
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Was prematurely added with the expectation that it will become that next Revolutions of 1989. Recentism. I would consider the Soviet war in Afghanistan and War in Afghanistan (2001 to present) on their own to be more vital than this. Within Africa, the Second Sudanese Civil War trumps this. Gizza ( t)( c) 00:41, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
We do have coverage of those wars in War in Afghanistan (1978–present), though, which we list. Within modern history, I'd rather remove the natural disasters first ( 2010 Haiti earthquake, 1976 Tangshan earthquake, 1970 Bhola cyclone, and 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami). Even within the 20th and 21st centuries alone, they aren't the deadliest natural disasters: at least 1 million people died in the Asian flu of 1957 ( Britannica), another 1 million in the Hong Kong flu of 1968 ( Britannica), 800,000 in the sixth cholera pandemic (1899–1923), 570,000 in the seventh cholera pandemic (1961–75), an estimated 284,500 in the 2009 flu pandemic, and 273,400 in the 1920 Haiyuan earthquake. And it's hard to justify the inclusion of these natural disasters when we're still missing the Plague of Justinian, which killed an estimated 25 to 100 million people (half the population of Europe at the time). Malerisch ( talk) 01:05, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
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Since we are removing Tower Bridge, we could add this one. This bridge is the first arch bridge in the world to be made out of cast iron. It was built from 1777 to 1781 and is celebrated as the first bridge of its kind. Adding this bridge would also add another non-suspension bridge to the list.
This is a disambiguation page. Gizza ( t)( c) 07:41, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
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The modern music section needs more punk and hip hop. Punk and hip hop were the most influential music genres of the last 40 years. Rolling Stone magazine a while back rated this Sex Pistols albums as the 2nd most important rock album after the Beatles' Sgt. Pepper's. Smiloid ( talk) 06:14, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
The modern music section needs more punk and hip hop. Punk and hip hop were the most influential music genres of the last 40 years. Rapper's Delight by the Sugarhill Gang is the single which introduced most of the world to hip hop Smiloid ( talk) 06:48, 9 January 2015 (UTC)