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I'm skipping Buster Keaton since he's more renowned as a director than an actor (he ranks #7 on the Entertainment Weekly list of greatest directors) and the Marx Brothers since they're notable as comedians. Next on the chopping block would be Douglas, who ranks #17 on the AFI list. We still have too many American actors, and I don't see a better place to start than Douglas. If he might be vital for contributing to the end of the Hollywood blacklist, shouldn't Joseph McCarthy be listed first, who was much more central to the "anti-Communist crusade"? Malerisch ( talk) 03:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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Caine doesn't seem that vital to me. He's certainly a prolific and recognizable actor, but he isn't known as one of the best actors of all time. He won two Academy Awards, which doesn't put him leagues above many other actors. Malerisch ( talk) 03:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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I'm not sure why she has to be listed. We don't list all of the EGOT winners, and she technically didn't win all four. Other than that, she doesn't seem vital. (She also won a few Razzies—those aren't exactly something that one of the greatest actresses of all time would have!) Malerisch ( talk) 03:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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Newhart ranks #14 on the (US-biased, which should boost his ranking) Comedy Central list. The Button-Down Mind of Bob Newhart may have been the best-selling comedy album of 20th century, but I'm not convinced that comedy albums need representation anyway. And if sales make you vital, shouldn't J. K. Rowling and R. L. Stine be listed? Malerisch ( talk) 03:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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Murphy ranks #10 on the CC list, and being a high-grossing actor doesn't make you vital: we don't list Samuel L. Jackson and Harrison Ford, who have grossed more than Murphy. Malerisch ( talk) 03:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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If people don't want to remove Ed Sullivan, what about Steve Allen? I don't think this list needs both him and Johnny Carson, as well as The Tonight Show. Malerisch ( talk) 03:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Hosts seem to have less notability and fame internationally than movie and music stars. Then from a US point of view many presidents were booted, I don't think he's more vital even if it is apples and oranges comparison. Carl wev 07:06, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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Yeah, he was great in A Man for All Seasons, but he doesn't seem like a necessary person to be on this list
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He doesn't seem to be on par with the type of people we are currently retaining on the list. Take a glance at the Great Britons omitted above and you'll see what I mean. p b p 23:36, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
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Al Capone is hardly the only example of a culturally significant gangster. The King of Cocaine played a central role in the narcotics trade that has profoundly affected Central American society for half a century. At the height of his power Forbes estimated he was the seventh-richest man in the world.
Escobar was no doubt an influential drug lord, but I don't know if he's more vital than Joaquín Guzmán Loera, who was called the "biggest drug lord of all time" by Forbes and "the godfather of the drug world" by the DEA. Malerisch ( talk) 09:25, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
If we have more in the area of organised crime, why not Yakuza, Mafia/ Sicilian Mafia, and similar? or things like Ku Klux Klan, estimated up to 6 million members in 1920s, also we have The Birth of a Nation a film in part about the KKK. Carl wev 11:14, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps we should add Manuel Noriega. He was both a military dictator and a drug dealer. PointsofNoReturn ( talk) 21:28, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
We have Frank Sinatra. He was both a singer and a mafioso. -- Melody Lavender ( talk) 12:32, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
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As title, since it is a highly significant nuclear incident in history of the world.
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If any shipwreck deserves to be on the history list, then this is the one that should be on it. 1500 people died from the wreck and is perhaps the most notable shipwreck of all time. Multiple movies have been made on the event, and the action of the captain to sail into the iceberg is high satirized to this date, with the phrase "Titanic Ego" being coined from this event.
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These seem poor inclusions. Only thing going for it is seems to represent, in a way, music from the non-western parts of the world, although I still think it's weak, and I would prefer another non-western genre of music with some substance, although not from the same region we are missing Samba which I may nominate. We don't have a huge amount of generic drum types. We don't even have Base drum, which could feasibly replace these, or not. Carl wev 09:25, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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Music as a whole, I'd prefer wider articles like genres, it is not among the oldest genres, but it originates from the turn of the 20th century, which is older than many genres we have, and is the main genre of South America particularly Brazil 5th most populous nation. It's also generally seen good to get representation for an area other than US and Europe. Considering we still have an odd mix of individual songs and albums like 4 Beatles/Lennon works, a Marvin Gaye album in addition to himself, a Fleetwood Mac album and Happy Birthday To You, and the song by the Righteous Brothers, etc etc I think Samba should be higher priority.
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This article was removed without consulting anyone who actually is part of WikiProject Equine. This is not merely an Olympic level discipline, but it is the classical foundation of all modern riding. It is highly significant and should not have been removed, particularly for the ill-informed reasons given below. Montanabw (talk) 05:47, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
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There are significant numbers of competitors at the Olympic level; but noting concerns about too many articles on Olympic sports, I recommend this one be added as the overview. Montanabw (talk) 05:47, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
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Seven articles on equestrianism is excessive. The subdisciplines of equestrianism on their own are not vital. If their inclusion in the Olympics is what kept them on the list, more popular disciplines like artistic gymnastics, track cycling and synchronized swimming and Olympics sports on their own including shooting sport and triathlon will have to be added using such logic.
This will still leave us with five equestrian articles: equestrianism itself, horse racing, saddle, stirrup and Secretariat. Of these, the first two are clearly vital.
The exhibitionary nature of equestrian sports made me think of beauty pageant as a possible addition. The number of countries participating in major beauty pageants exceed many of the sports listed. The winners of the big pageants such as Miss Universe and Miss World often become household names in their respective nations and forge successful post-pageant careers. It also complements bodybuilding to an extent. I don't think one article on it would be overkill. Gizza ( t)( c) 11:48, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
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They had previously been in transport before, but seemed to have been moved to sports without any discussion. Since horses are saddled for many other reasons than sport, I believe saddle and stirrup shouldn't be in sports, but in transport. p b p 05:06, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
I was probably the culprit. If you're going to move saddle and stirrup you might as well move equestrianism over there as well – the argument is the same in both cases (they're about more than just sport). They ought to go together. Cobblet ( talk) 13:08, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
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Not sure if it would belong in "recreation" or "medicine" area of the list, I lean toward recreation. Massage is pretty significant, known world wide and around for a very long time. I would list topics like this before getting to 12 tennis players and including a race horse etc. Carl wev 20:03, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
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Controversial, I know. But virtual currency, such as Bitcoin, are a new way of doing business. Virtual currency is used to sell both legal and illegal goods on the internet without much of a trace. Virtual currency represents a movement towards one worldwide currency, although it has been less successful of late.
"Virtual currency is used to sell both legal and illegal goods on the internet" (emphasis added). Black market would be a better article to add to this section. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:29, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
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An important classification of languages and process more vital than many of the listed languages. Some creoles on their own, such as Haitian Creole, are more widely spoken than these listed languages.
This is a better article than Creole people, since the people do not have any underlying ethnic unity. The type of language is what unites them. If people are hesitant to add this straight, we could swap it out for the Creole people article. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:29, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
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In answer to PointsofNoReturn's question, I see no reason to add articles on country-specific social security programmes. In case it is not clear, the article under consideration here is on the general concept of social security, not the particular US programme of retirement benefits. Neljack ( talk) 00:14, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
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These three articles are crucial since they all refer to key social science theories. All beginners' pedagogy textbooks mention these theories.
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Mimicry covers species that mimic something else, not only in appearance but also, sound, scent, location or behavior. The article appears to be exclusive to biology, eg not covering military or other human things that camouflage may include. I found it in Wikipedia:List of 2007 Macropædia articles a list of 699 articles that that encyclopedia thought was most vital for inclusion, and I noticed this was missing from our list; if they place in within a 699 list surely we should have it in a 10'000 list? There may be more articles it has that we don't that may be worth considering. Mimicry appears in almost 50 languages and has over 80 references in English, looks like a vital biology to me.
We do have Camouflage. Although I added it myself years ago, and I think we should definitely have camouflage, I'm not sure where, maybe somewhere else not biology maybe with optics or light or colour? ideas? Camouflage topic includes natural camouflage of animals and plants, military, and civilian/industrial camouflage (eg camouflaging masts in woodland etc). Not 'only' biological, but it does look OK where it is, as mimicry may not include animals not technically mimicking another but camouflaged to blend into sea bed, or tree bark for example. Carl wev 13:36, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
According to the article leads despite the similarities, both covers something the other does not, and if anything camouflage is a type of mimicry not the other way round, as mimicry includes similarities including visual appearance, sound, scent, location and behavior. Camouflage is pretty much visual similarity alone, including blending into a background as well as visually looking like another species, the mimicry article I don't think mentions blending into background, unless I missed it as a reader, or editors missed it when writing. I understand that the overlap and similarity may be an issue, but so many species do things like this, I think we need both.Counter-shading etc are just types of camouflage, and cover less than mimicry and camouflage, and could be, and are, covered in camouflage. I do take your points on board. I think correctly informed opposition is better than opposition from slightly incorrect or misleading reasons. I'm not an expert though, I only read the leads and skip read the rest of the articles, if I am the misinformed one, I know look silly. Carl wev 19:17, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
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The majority of beetles were removed in bulk in one go, I think the Ladybird should stay. Beetles are the most numerous insect, with the most species, and one of the most numerous animals altogether. At the moment beetles are outnumbered in our list by the Flies and also Butterflies/Moths which I will shortly nominate some for removal too. The ladybug has over 5000 species described, they are significant to pest control and one of few insects that sometimes appears in popular culture being books, movies and other imagery etc. I think if the number of insects were to be reduced further, coccinelidae would still fit in. Carl wev 16:05, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
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I'm no expert but butterflies/moths have 9 articles outnumbering others such as beetles, and the skipper butterfly seems like one of the least vital insects, or organisms in general we have. Carl wev 16:09, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
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This article was redirected to heart a month after it was added to VA/E (see here for the merger discussion). Should it be removed? Malerisch ( talk) 03:02, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
I believe redirects, once discovered, should be automatically removed. I can't think of a single reason why a redirect to an already vital article should be kept on the list. The person removing the redirect can post a message about it on this talk page so the participants of VA are notified. I don't think doing anything beyond that is necessary. Gizza ( t)( c) 00:24, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
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Ophthalmology is the branch of medicine that deals with the anatomy, physiology and diseases of the eye, the area of medicine that also includes opticians. We have Eye test listed. I can't help but think this is a little weak, and we should have an overview article. I thought of optician it's better than eye test but it didn't look quite good enough to me, Ophthalmology seems better than optician and much better than eye test. I probably wouldn't oppose removing eye test as a kind of swap, but there are several tests, including blood test and pap test we should be consistent, as they are maybe similar importance, I am unsure of them. We also previously had urine test but I got it removed and urinary system added. Would anyone prefer Optician? Carl wev 20:03, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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Same rationale as removing Saffir–Simpson hurricane wind scale. There is simply not enough space to list all major hazard scales as vital. Not all major hazards are even listed yet.
Other hazard scales can be seen in Category:Hazard scales, there are a fair number. Probably shouldn't have one or many of them. Carl wev 07:14, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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We have the subdivisions of the Mesozoic era (Triassic, Jurassic and Cretaceous). We also have the Permian–Triassic extinction event, even though we don’t have the Permian period, or for that matter any of the periods of the Paleozoic Era. I’d be open to the removal of the extinction event to make room for these. If we can have 170 articles devoted to the last 200 years of world history, we can have six more articles on 250 million years of Earth’s history
I think these are important encyclopedic material, I would personally keep the PT extinction event, the event that ended the dinosaurs reign among other species, changed the world, seems more significant than listing 10 dinosaurs separately and individually. I also think Cambrian explosion to be very significant, and worthy of the list, I would support that too, in addition to Cambrian itself. May open that one myself if no one else does. Carl wev 12:18, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
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Are you supporting this yourself? Carl wev 12:18, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
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A vital concept mentioned by many junior high school science and physics textbooks, however the list lacks this vital article.-- RekishiEJ ( talk) 05:58, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
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A concept more commonly heard than centripetal force, however the list does not contain this article.-- RekishiEJ ( talk) 05:58, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
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tetration is interesting and not unimportant, and imaginary unit is as important as -1. Imaginary number is the opposite of real number. Therefore they all should belong to the list.-- RekishiEJ ( talk) 12:25, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
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This topic is crucial, however this list does not have resultant.-- RekishiEJ ( talk) 16:54, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
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This article has been a redirect to field (mathematics) for over a month now, which is already on the list. Malerisch ( talk) 03:05, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
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Rayon is a widely used fiber and has been used as replacements for both silk and and cotton. It's also unique in that it's a semi-synthetic fiber.
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Chilean folkmusician who was tortured and executed by Pinochet's forces during the 1973 coup against Allende. More than anyone he became the symbol of the injustice of the Chilean revolution in the West and is among the best known Latin American trova artists outside of the continent.
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Wundt was the first person to use the term psychologist and is (with William James - already listed) a central figure in the early development of psychology as a science of its own (late 19th century). He established the first experimental psychology laboratory in the world and was one of the first who argued for objective measurements in the newly founded science of psychology. Many of his students became influential scientists. Arnoutf ( talk) 13:26, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
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Although I don't think topics involving Indigenous peoples of the Americas are over-represented I don't think an article like this is the best to represent their history. This battle saw about 331 deaths, including 200 woman and children (300 on one side 31 on the other). I can't help think there must be a huge number of similar battles and/or wars with higher numbers and importance that are missing, from American history and other areas. We don't have Sioux Wars, Great Sioux War of 1876, Battle of the Little Bighorn, look also at categories Category:Wars between the United States and Native Americans and Category:Battles involving Native Americans, There are over 60 wars and over 60 battles in those, plus more within sub categories of those. Although not the least significant, The wounded knee Massacre doesn't stand out to me as the most vital of those either. Also perhaps articles on the "peoples" themselves who are/were around for 100s or 1000s of years may be better to have than one battle where they happened to fight the US in their later history. There are Native American Peoples and other native peoples missing that seem higher importance than battles/massacres like this. If I have missed a reason why this article is more important compared to those in the categories above then I'm sorry and please share. Carl wev 18:48, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
We list an extremely limited number of specific battles (where's Battle of Marathon, Battle of Yarmouk or Battles of Tarain?) and as important as Wounded Knee may be, it's difficult to argue that it belongs in such select company. I'd support a swap for Trail of Tears – it certainly isn't inferior to Wounded Knee in terms symbolizing the US's treatment of its natives and I prefer listing the topic that had a deeper impact on the lives of native Americans. I think a more general topic like Demographic history of the indigenous peoples of the Americas would also be a better choice. Cobblet ( talk) 20:10, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
I agree with Montanabw. The articles should be moved/nominated in a different section. Maybe politics, or better ethnology. Does anybody even know that we have an ethnology section? It has 29 articles. What makes ethnology any less important than other disciplines? The articles that are mentioned here might find a better home there. -- Melody Lavender ( talk) 17:14, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
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Baroque architecture is very popular in the world, including Taiwan, where many buildings erected during Japanese rule use this style.
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I do not see how the play about Julius Caesar is any less vital than Hamlet or Macbeth. Julius Caesar is one of Shakespeare's masterpieces. A list of literature is not complete without the play Julius Caesar.
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A crucial book written by Karl Marx whose corresponding article is not included in the list.
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A book of history written by the English historian Edward Gibbon, which traces the trajectory of Western civilization (as well as the Islamic and Mongolian conquests) from the height of the Roman Empire to the fall of Byzantium. It was published in six volumes. Volume I was published in 1776 and went through six printings. Volumes II and III were published in 1781; volumes IV, V, and VI in 1788–89. The original volumes were published in quarto sections, a common publishing practice of the time. The work covers the history of the Roman Empire, Europe, and the Catholic Church from 98 to 1590 and discusses the decline of the Roman Empire in the East and West. Because of its relative objectivity and heavy use of primary sources, unusual at the time, its methodology became a model for later historians. This led to Gibbon being called the first "modern historian of ancient Rome".
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Basic concept that strikes me as an obvious omission. -- Melody Lavender ( talk) 17:10, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
An even more basic concept is note, which I think should be added first. Malerisch ( talk) 19:10, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
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Just seems disingenuous that we have one but not the other p b p 20:15, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
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We have talked before about cutting modern music works. Here's a start. This is more notable for sales than critical acclaim. I think having the Bee Gees on the people list is enough to cover this.
We do have Bee Gees and also Disco. We also removed the star of the movie John Travolta, who seems more important than the sound track. Carl wev 14:27, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
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With the Beatles, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, I Want to Hold Your Hand and Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band on the list, the Beatles are fairly well covered even if this is removed. It seems a bit of a funny choice to me anyway, as there are several more critically acclaimed or popular songs like Strawberry Fields Forever, Let It Be, Eleanor Rigby or Hey Jude.
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Widespread and ancient idea, appearing throughout most of history up to modern day, in some form, mentioned in the teachings of most religions in many cultures of the world. Some promoting it and also some opposing it. Could go in sexuality or religion, but appears primarily a religious topic it seems. Fasting is under religion, not with dieting under food, for example. Carl wev 09:42, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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A crucial article (anyone who is not good at econometrics can not excel in microeconomics and macroeconomics).
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Sugarcane is the most produced crop and 9th most valuable agricultural commodity in the world Source - FAOSTAT. Similar to cotton, the sugarcane plantations set up during the colonial period led to the migrations of various people from Africa and Asia to the tropical islands of the Atlantic, Indian and Pacific Oceans and thus played a major role in shaping the ethnic makeup of many modern day nations.
Apart from being the main source for sugar and rum production (both of which are listed), it is a major source of the world's biofuels, which itself provides a greater supply of energy than solar energy and wind power and isn't listed. If there are 80 or so other edible plants on the list, sugarcane should clearly be included as well.
Sugarcane would fit in even on the L3 list as it stands IMO. I would consider it slightly more vital than soybean and potato for instance (although the alternative would be to remove those articles). Gizza ( t)( c) 02:51, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
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Some of the most basic ways to describe lines. Jucchan ( talk) 03:27, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
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Possibly the most commonly used shape. Jucchan ( talk) 03:27, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
If we're planning to add all of these 4-sided shapes, I think quadrilateral should be included. Malerisch ( talk) 03:40, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
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Common basic shape whose properties are applicable to fields outside of math. Jucchan ( talk) 03:27, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
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Common basic shape, can also be used to approximate definite integrals. Jucchan ( talk) 03:27, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
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Common basic shape. Jucchan ( talk) 03:27, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Cylinder is a disambiguation page I'm guessing Cylinder (geometry) must be the article intended. I have changed the thread to that, if I was wrong please alter. Carl wev 05:49, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
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Common basic shape, one of the shapes that is widely naturally occurring. Jucchan ( talk) 03:27, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
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Archive 30 | ← | Archive 33 | Archive 34 | Archive 35 | Archive 36 | Archive 37 | → | Archive 40 |
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I'm skipping Buster Keaton since he's more renowned as a director than an actor (he ranks #7 on the Entertainment Weekly list of greatest directors) and the Marx Brothers since they're notable as comedians. Next on the chopping block would be Douglas, who ranks #17 on the AFI list. We still have too many American actors, and I don't see a better place to start than Douglas. If he might be vital for contributing to the end of the Hollywood blacklist, shouldn't Joseph McCarthy be listed first, who was much more central to the "anti-Communist crusade"? Malerisch ( talk) 03:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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Caine doesn't seem that vital to me. He's certainly a prolific and recognizable actor, but he isn't known as one of the best actors of all time. He won two Academy Awards, which doesn't put him leagues above many other actors. Malerisch ( talk) 03:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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I'm not sure why she has to be listed. We don't list all of the EGOT winners, and she technically didn't win all four. Other than that, she doesn't seem vital. (She also won a few Razzies—those aren't exactly something that one of the greatest actresses of all time would have!) Malerisch ( talk) 03:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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Newhart ranks #14 on the (US-biased, which should boost his ranking) Comedy Central list. The Button-Down Mind of Bob Newhart may have been the best-selling comedy album of 20th century, but I'm not convinced that comedy albums need representation anyway. And if sales make you vital, shouldn't J. K. Rowling and R. L. Stine be listed? Malerisch ( talk) 03:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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Murphy ranks #10 on the CC list, and being a high-grossing actor doesn't make you vital: we don't list Samuel L. Jackson and Harrison Ford, who have grossed more than Murphy. Malerisch ( talk) 03:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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If people don't want to remove Ed Sullivan, what about Steve Allen? I don't think this list needs both him and Johnny Carson, as well as The Tonight Show. Malerisch ( talk) 03:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Hosts seem to have less notability and fame internationally than movie and music stars. Then from a US point of view many presidents were booted, I don't think he's more vital even if it is apples and oranges comparison. Carl wev 07:06, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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Yeah, he was great in A Man for All Seasons, but he doesn't seem like a necessary person to be on this list
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He doesn't seem to be on par with the type of people we are currently retaining on the list. Take a glance at the Great Britons omitted above and you'll see what I mean. p b p 23:36, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
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Al Capone is hardly the only example of a culturally significant gangster. The King of Cocaine played a central role in the narcotics trade that has profoundly affected Central American society for half a century. At the height of his power Forbes estimated he was the seventh-richest man in the world.
Escobar was no doubt an influential drug lord, but I don't know if he's more vital than Joaquín Guzmán Loera, who was called the "biggest drug lord of all time" by Forbes and "the godfather of the drug world" by the DEA. Malerisch ( talk) 09:25, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
If we have more in the area of organised crime, why not Yakuza, Mafia/ Sicilian Mafia, and similar? or things like Ku Klux Klan, estimated up to 6 million members in 1920s, also we have The Birth of a Nation a film in part about the KKK. Carl wev 11:14, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps we should add Manuel Noriega. He was both a military dictator and a drug dealer. PointsofNoReturn ( talk) 21:28, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
We have Frank Sinatra. He was both a singer and a mafioso. -- Melody Lavender ( talk) 12:32, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
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As title, since it is a highly significant nuclear incident in history of the world.
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If any shipwreck deserves to be on the history list, then this is the one that should be on it. 1500 people died from the wreck and is perhaps the most notable shipwreck of all time. Multiple movies have been made on the event, and the action of the captain to sail into the iceberg is high satirized to this date, with the phrase "Titanic Ego" being coined from this event.
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These seem poor inclusions. Only thing going for it is seems to represent, in a way, music from the non-western parts of the world, although I still think it's weak, and I would prefer another non-western genre of music with some substance, although not from the same region we are missing Samba which I may nominate. We don't have a huge amount of generic drum types. We don't even have Base drum, which could feasibly replace these, or not. Carl wev 09:25, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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Music as a whole, I'd prefer wider articles like genres, it is not among the oldest genres, but it originates from the turn of the 20th century, which is older than many genres we have, and is the main genre of South America particularly Brazil 5th most populous nation. It's also generally seen good to get representation for an area other than US and Europe. Considering we still have an odd mix of individual songs and albums like 4 Beatles/Lennon works, a Marvin Gaye album in addition to himself, a Fleetwood Mac album and Happy Birthday To You, and the song by the Righteous Brothers, etc etc I think Samba should be higher priority.
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This article was removed without consulting anyone who actually is part of WikiProject Equine. This is not merely an Olympic level discipline, but it is the classical foundation of all modern riding. It is highly significant and should not have been removed, particularly for the ill-informed reasons given below. Montanabw (talk) 05:47, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
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There are significant numbers of competitors at the Olympic level; but noting concerns about too many articles on Olympic sports, I recommend this one be added as the overview. Montanabw (talk) 05:47, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
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Seven articles on equestrianism is excessive. The subdisciplines of equestrianism on their own are not vital. If their inclusion in the Olympics is what kept them on the list, more popular disciplines like artistic gymnastics, track cycling and synchronized swimming and Olympics sports on their own including shooting sport and triathlon will have to be added using such logic.
This will still leave us with five equestrian articles: equestrianism itself, horse racing, saddle, stirrup and Secretariat. Of these, the first two are clearly vital.
The exhibitionary nature of equestrian sports made me think of beauty pageant as a possible addition. The number of countries participating in major beauty pageants exceed many of the sports listed. The winners of the big pageants such as Miss Universe and Miss World often become household names in their respective nations and forge successful post-pageant careers. It also complements bodybuilding to an extent. I don't think one article on it would be overkill. Gizza ( t)( c) 11:48, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
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They had previously been in transport before, but seemed to have been moved to sports without any discussion. Since horses are saddled for many other reasons than sport, I believe saddle and stirrup shouldn't be in sports, but in transport. p b p 05:06, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
I was probably the culprit. If you're going to move saddle and stirrup you might as well move equestrianism over there as well – the argument is the same in both cases (they're about more than just sport). They ought to go together. Cobblet ( talk) 13:08, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
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Not sure if it would belong in "recreation" or "medicine" area of the list, I lean toward recreation. Massage is pretty significant, known world wide and around for a very long time. I would list topics like this before getting to 12 tennis players and including a race horse etc. Carl wev 20:03, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
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Controversial, I know. But virtual currency, such as Bitcoin, are a new way of doing business. Virtual currency is used to sell both legal and illegal goods on the internet without much of a trace. Virtual currency represents a movement towards one worldwide currency, although it has been less successful of late.
"Virtual currency is used to sell both legal and illegal goods on the internet" (emphasis added). Black market would be a better article to add to this section. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:29, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
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An important classification of languages and process more vital than many of the listed languages. Some creoles on their own, such as Haitian Creole, are more widely spoken than these listed languages.
This is a better article than Creole people, since the people do not have any underlying ethnic unity. The type of language is what unites them. If people are hesitant to add this straight, we could swap it out for the Creole people article. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:29, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
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In answer to PointsofNoReturn's question, I see no reason to add articles on country-specific social security programmes. In case it is not clear, the article under consideration here is on the general concept of social security, not the particular US programme of retirement benefits. Neljack ( talk) 00:14, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
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These three articles are crucial since they all refer to key social science theories. All beginners' pedagogy textbooks mention these theories.
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Mimicry covers species that mimic something else, not only in appearance but also, sound, scent, location or behavior. The article appears to be exclusive to biology, eg not covering military or other human things that camouflage may include. I found it in Wikipedia:List of 2007 Macropædia articles a list of 699 articles that that encyclopedia thought was most vital for inclusion, and I noticed this was missing from our list; if they place in within a 699 list surely we should have it in a 10'000 list? There may be more articles it has that we don't that may be worth considering. Mimicry appears in almost 50 languages and has over 80 references in English, looks like a vital biology to me.
We do have Camouflage. Although I added it myself years ago, and I think we should definitely have camouflage, I'm not sure where, maybe somewhere else not biology maybe with optics or light or colour? ideas? Camouflage topic includes natural camouflage of animals and plants, military, and civilian/industrial camouflage (eg camouflaging masts in woodland etc). Not 'only' biological, but it does look OK where it is, as mimicry may not include animals not technically mimicking another but camouflaged to blend into sea bed, or tree bark for example. Carl wev 13:36, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
According to the article leads despite the similarities, both covers something the other does not, and if anything camouflage is a type of mimicry not the other way round, as mimicry includes similarities including visual appearance, sound, scent, location and behavior. Camouflage is pretty much visual similarity alone, including blending into a background as well as visually looking like another species, the mimicry article I don't think mentions blending into background, unless I missed it as a reader, or editors missed it when writing. I understand that the overlap and similarity may be an issue, but so many species do things like this, I think we need both.Counter-shading etc are just types of camouflage, and cover less than mimicry and camouflage, and could be, and are, covered in camouflage. I do take your points on board. I think correctly informed opposition is better than opposition from slightly incorrect or misleading reasons. I'm not an expert though, I only read the leads and skip read the rest of the articles, if I am the misinformed one, I know look silly. Carl wev 19:17, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
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The majority of beetles were removed in bulk in one go, I think the Ladybird should stay. Beetles are the most numerous insect, with the most species, and one of the most numerous animals altogether. At the moment beetles are outnumbered in our list by the Flies and also Butterflies/Moths which I will shortly nominate some for removal too. The ladybug has over 5000 species described, they are significant to pest control and one of few insects that sometimes appears in popular culture being books, movies and other imagery etc. I think if the number of insects were to be reduced further, coccinelidae would still fit in. Carl wev 16:05, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
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I'm no expert but butterflies/moths have 9 articles outnumbering others such as beetles, and the skipper butterfly seems like one of the least vital insects, or organisms in general we have. Carl wev 16:09, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
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This article was redirected to heart a month after it was added to VA/E (see here for the merger discussion). Should it be removed? Malerisch ( talk) 03:02, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
I believe redirects, once discovered, should be automatically removed. I can't think of a single reason why a redirect to an already vital article should be kept on the list. The person removing the redirect can post a message about it on this talk page so the participants of VA are notified. I don't think doing anything beyond that is necessary. Gizza ( t)( c) 00:24, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
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Ophthalmology is the branch of medicine that deals with the anatomy, physiology and diseases of the eye, the area of medicine that also includes opticians. We have Eye test listed. I can't help but think this is a little weak, and we should have an overview article. I thought of optician it's better than eye test but it didn't look quite good enough to me, Ophthalmology seems better than optician and much better than eye test. I probably wouldn't oppose removing eye test as a kind of swap, but there are several tests, including blood test and pap test we should be consistent, as they are maybe similar importance, I am unsure of them. We also previously had urine test but I got it removed and urinary system added. Would anyone prefer Optician? Carl wev 20:03, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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Same rationale as removing Saffir–Simpson hurricane wind scale. There is simply not enough space to list all major hazard scales as vital. Not all major hazards are even listed yet.
Other hazard scales can be seen in Category:Hazard scales, there are a fair number. Probably shouldn't have one or many of them. Carl wev 07:14, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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We have the subdivisions of the Mesozoic era (Triassic, Jurassic and Cretaceous). We also have the Permian–Triassic extinction event, even though we don’t have the Permian period, or for that matter any of the periods of the Paleozoic Era. I’d be open to the removal of the extinction event to make room for these. If we can have 170 articles devoted to the last 200 years of world history, we can have six more articles on 250 million years of Earth’s history
I think these are important encyclopedic material, I would personally keep the PT extinction event, the event that ended the dinosaurs reign among other species, changed the world, seems more significant than listing 10 dinosaurs separately and individually. I also think Cambrian explosion to be very significant, and worthy of the list, I would support that too, in addition to Cambrian itself. May open that one myself if no one else does. Carl wev 12:18, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
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Are you supporting this yourself? Carl wev 12:18, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
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A vital concept mentioned by many junior high school science and physics textbooks, however the list lacks this vital article.-- RekishiEJ ( talk) 05:58, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
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A concept more commonly heard than centripetal force, however the list does not contain this article.-- RekishiEJ ( talk) 05:58, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
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tetration is interesting and not unimportant, and imaginary unit is as important as -1. Imaginary number is the opposite of real number. Therefore they all should belong to the list.-- RekishiEJ ( talk) 12:25, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
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This topic is crucial, however this list does not have resultant.-- RekishiEJ ( talk) 16:54, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
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This article has been a redirect to field (mathematics) for over a month now, which is already on the list. Malerisch ( talk) 03:05, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
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Rayon is a widely used fiber and has been used as replacements for both silk and and cotton. It's also unique in that it's a semi-synthetic fiber.
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Chilean folkmusician who was tortured and executed by Pinochet's forces during the 1973 coup against Allende. More than anyone he became the symbol of the injustice of the Chilean revolution in the West and is among the best known Latin American trova artists outside of the continent.
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Wundt was the first person to use the term psychologist and is (with William James - already listed) a central figure in the early development of psychology as a science of its own (late 19th century). He established the first experimental psychology laboratory in the world and was one of the first who argued for objective measurements in the newly founded science of psychology. Many of his students became influential scientists. Arnoutf ( talk) 13:26, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
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Although I don't think topics involving Indigenous peoples of the Americas are over-represented I don't think an article like this is the best to represent their history. This battle saw about 331 deaths, including 200 woman and children (300 on one side 31 on the other). I can't help think there must be a huge number of similar battles and/or wars with higher numbers and importance that are missing, from American history and other areas. We don't have Sioux Wars, Great Sioux War of 1876, Battle of the Little Bighorn, look also at categories Category:Wars between the United States and Native Americans and Category:Battles involving Native Americans, There are over 60 wars and over 60 battles in those, plus more within sub categories of those. Although not the least significant, The wounded knee Massacre doesn't stand out to me as the most vital of those either. Also perhaps articles on the "peoples" themselves who are/were around for 100s or 1000s of years may be better to have than one battle where they happened to fight the US in their later history. There are Native American Peoples and other native peoples missing that seem higher importance than battles/massacres like this. If I have missed a reason why this article is more important compared to those in the categories above then I'm sorry and please share. Carl wev 18:48, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
We list an extremely limited number of specific battles (where's Battle of Marathon, Battle of Yarmouk or Battles of Tarain?) and as important as Wounded Knee may be, it's difficult to argue that it belongs in such select company. I'd support a swap for Trail of Tears – it certainly isn't inferior to Wounded Knee in terms symbolizing the US's treatment of its natives and I prefer listing the topic that had a deeper impact on the lives of native Americans. I think a more general topic like Demographic history of the indigenous peoples of the Americas would also be a better choice. Cobblet ( talk) 20:10, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
I agree with Montanabw. The articles should be moved/nominated in a different section. Maybe politics, or better ethnology. Does anybody even know that we have an ethnology section? It has 29 articles. What makes ethnology any less important than other disciplines? The articles that are mentioned here might find a better home there. -- Melody Lavender ( talk) 17:14, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
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Baroque architecture is very popular in the world, including Taiwan, where many buildings erected during Japanese rule use this style.
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I do not see how the play about Julius Caesar is any less vital than Hamlet or Macbeth. Julius Caesar is one of Shakespeare's masterpieces. A list of literature is not complete without the play Julius Caesar.
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A crucial book written by Karl Marx whose corresponding article is not included in the list.
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A book of history written by the English historian Edward Gibbon, which traces the trajectory of Western civilization (as well as the Islamic and Mongolian conquests) from the height of the Roman Empire to the fall of Byzantium. It was published in six volumes. Volume I was published in 1776 and went through six printings. Volumes II and III were published in 1781; volumes IV, V, and VI in 1788–89. The original volumes were published in quarto sections, a common publishing practice of the time. The work covers the history of the Roman Empire, Europe, and the Catholic Church from 98 to 1590 and discusses the decline of the Roman Empire in the East and West. Because of its relative objectivity and heavy use of primary sources, unusual at the time, its methodology became a model for later historians. This led to Gibbon being called the first "modern historian of ancient Rome".
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Basic concept that strikes me as an obvious omission. -- Melody Lavender ( talk) 17:10, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
An even more basic concept is note, which I think should be added first. Malerisch ( talk) 19:10, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
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Just seems disingenuous that we have one but not the other p b p 20:15, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
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We have talked before about cutting modern music works. Here's a start. This is more notable for sales than critical acclaim. I think having the Bee Gees on the people list is enough to cover this.
We do have Bee Gees and also Disco. We also removed the star of the movie John Travolta, who seems more important than the sound track. Carl wev 14:27, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
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With the Beatles, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, I Want to Hold Your Hand and Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band on the list, the Beatles are fairly well covered even if this is removed. It seems a bit of a funny choice to me anyway, as there are several more critically acclaimed or popular songs like Strawberry Fields Forever, Let It Be, Eleanor Rigby or Hey Jude.
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Widespread and ancient idea, appearing throughout most of history up to modern day, in some form, mentioned in the teachings of most religions in many cultures of the world. Some promoting it and also some opposing it. Could go in sexuality or religion, but appears primarily a religious topic it seems. Fasting is under religion, not with dieting under food, for example. Carl wev 09:42, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
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A crucial article (anyone who is not good at econometrics can not excel in microeconomics and macroeconomics).
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Sugarcane is the most produced crop and 9th most valuable agricultural commodity in the world Source - FAOSTAT. Similar to cotton, the sugarcane plantations set up during the colonial period led to the migrations of various people from Africa and Asia to the tropical islands of the Atlantic, Indian and Pacific Oceans and thus played a major role in shaping the ethnic makeup of many modern day nations.
Apart from being the main source for sugar and rum production (both of which are listed), it is a major source of the world's biofuels, which itself provides a greater supply of energy than solar energy and wind power and isn't listed. If there are 80 or so other edible plants on the list, sugarcane should clearly be included as well.
Sugarcane would fit in even on the L3 list as it stands IMO. I would consider it slightly more vital than soybean and potato for instance (although the alternative would be to remove those articles). Gizza ( t)( c) 02:51, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
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Some of the most basic ways to describe lines. Jucchan ( talk) 03:27, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
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Possibly the most commonly used shape. Jucchan ( talk) 03:27, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
If we're planning to add all of these 4-sided shapes, I think quadrilateral should be included. Malerisch ( talk) 03:40, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
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Common basic shape whose properties are applicable to fields outside of math. Jucchan ( talk) 03:27, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
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Common basic shape, can also be used to approximate definite integrals. Jucchan ( talk) 03:27, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
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Common basic shape. Jucchan ( talk) 03:27, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Cylinder is a disambiguation page I'm guessing Cylinder (geometry) must be the article intended. I have changed the thread to that, if I was wrong please alter. Carl wev 05:49, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
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Common basic shape, one of the shapes that is widely naturally occurring. Jucchan ( talk) 03:27, 25 September 2014 (UTC)