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The most famous teacher of Jainism.-- Redtigerxyz Talk 11:00, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
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Why isn't George Washington a level-4 vital article? He is the founder of the United States of America. I was surprised to find George Washington as a level 3 vital article. If other presidents are on the level-4 vital article list, shouldn't George Washington be on it too? PointsofNoReturn ( talk) 20:15, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
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Western medicine begins with him and Hippocrates. His writings account for nearly half of all extant literature from ancient Greece.
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We now have 16 articles under History of science and technology, and 14 under History of other topics. However, many other history articles are scattered throughout the other pages. For example, History of aviation is under Technology, and History of radio is under Society. I propose moving all such articles to the History subpage for consistency.
Which topics exactly do you propose moving? Just any topic that has the word "history" in the title, or any topics of primarily historical interest as well? Would you move alchemy for example? Cobblet ( talk) 05:25, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
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I've previously mentioned that the geography section is distorted in particular areas. This distortion seems to have happened when there was an urgent need to reduce the size of the section. But some vital articles were hastily removed while non-vital articles managed to survive.
Bihar is the third most populous state in India and was the place of origin of Buddhism, the Maurya Empire and Gupta Empire. In modern times it is unfortunately notable for being the poorest major state in India, always hovering around the bottom in GDP per capita and HDI rankings.
Jabalpur and Aurangabad are the third and fifth most populous cities in the states of Madhya Pradesh and Maharashtra respectively. There is nothing that makes Jabalpur significant or vital enough to be on a list when you compare it with the other Indian cities. Aurangabad's main point of significance is as a transit point for the Ajanta Caves and Ellora Caves. These World Heritage archeological sites are more vital than the city you need to reach to see them as a tourist. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:03, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
I framed this as a "Remove 2, Add 1" swap so nobody can argue bloat and excess as a reason to oppose. IMO, considering that India is a predominantly rural country, 38 cities/metro areas is too much while 8 regions is too little. Cutting down the list of cities to 30 and increasing the regions to at 12 or 13 will capture more of what is vital in the country. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:03, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
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Performing arts contains 46 articles, we have circus already, plus clown, I can't imagine why an individual circus company would make the say top 50 most vital performing arts articles, over another performing art, circus type or other, we don't have other circus things like juggling, trapeze, tightrope, fire eating, sword swallowing, freak show, lion taming, most or all of these probably don't deserve to be in, but are probably higher importance than this circus company. We don't have any other circus company, if we list one why only one is it head and shoulders above all others? if several, it will be too many. More important topics might be older ones like Circus Maximus or gladiator. There must also be more performing arts things missing not related to circuses too. I've been thinking about Bull fighting for a while, a performing art/blood sport, historical and traditional but still around and controversial too, Carl wev 16:33, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
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We have 100's of actors, more directors and about 40 movies, some film awards. Movies are on shown on TV which we have, not sure if we have anything of home entertainment like VHS and DVD? Film's primary venue is movie theaters, and has been for over 100 years. We list other venues like swimming pool in addition to swimming sport, stadium for sport, gambling and casino. I think movie theater belongs in the top 100 articles for film, and we have well over 100 articles in the film area. The only thing that covers the movie theater at all really is "film" itself, but that is a very wide topic and appears in the vital 100 list, we can't miss off all things covered slightly by a vital 100 article. Carl wev 13:19, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
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I think we only need one article on Arthurian legend. Since that redirects to King Arthur, we'll keep that. Even Le Morte d'Arthur, which we also have, doesn't seem so vital to me (it seems less vital than Panchatantra, Grimms' Fairy Tales or Aesop's Fables, anyway).
To continue the discussion from above, I agree the Panchatantra is an excellent addition, and that it obviously belongs under Literature, not here. I'm having a hard time thinking of Asian characters that are non-historical, non-mythological, and not already covered by a work of literature on the list. From China I can't think of a better example than Mulan that fits that narrow category, but there are several mythological and semi-historical figures that would be more noteworthy. Cobblet ( talk) 07:11, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
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Another example of the Western bias I'm referring to. We already list three of the most notable examples of Western esotericism: Freemasonry, Gnosticism and Rosicrucianism.
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I mentioned in another thread how arbitrary our selection of new religious movements seems to be. The collective phenomenon might be vital, but individually the movements don't look so vital to me. Even a non-organized movement like New Age would appear to be more important.
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The movement is a new religion movement founded in 2010 [1], before that they were a sect within Sikhism and Hinduism. The religious movement has not had coverage in encyclopedias. Britannica does not even have an entry for it. Redtigerxyz Talk 13:56, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Our selection of new religious movements seems pretty arbitrary – Ravidassia, Hare Krishna, Falun Gong and Scientology, but not Cao Đài, Yiguandao, Tenrikyo or Rastafarianism. Such movements have a tendency to come and go (see Christian Science and Spiritualism) and maybe it's better to have the parent article than specific examples. Cobblet ( talk) 21:13, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Am the only one who thinks this is a little excessive? If they were in the "Fictional characters" list, they'd be 40-50% of the list. There are more people from Greek and Roman mythology on the list than there are from the Bible, a lot more. Any thoughts? p b p 20:47, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
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Of the 13 Greek deities, she seems of to be the least importance p b p 00:16, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
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We don't even have Helen of Troy, and we have Cassandra. We have plenty of other Iliad figures on the list already p b p 00:16, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
pbp, any thoughts on adding Hector? Cobblet ( talk) 17:22, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
Each of the Roman gods on this list is a knock-off (and, yes, I mean knock-off) of a Greek god on the list. Aside of having stuff named after them, what's their significance? Particularly when Minerva was never on the list to begin with? p b p 00:16, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
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As stated above, I don't think there's a pressing need for a lot of Roman gods, but I was surprised Minerva (who appears on a lot of iconography) didn't make the cut. This would leave us with Minerva, Jupiter (dah boss), Mars and Venus (personifications of masculinity and femininity) p b p 15:58, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
I thought Saturn might be worth listing too, since he's both well known and seems to be less Hellenized than most of the other Roman gods. Cobblet ( talk) 19:24, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
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Woden is the Continental/Anglo-Saxon equivalent of the Norse Odin and doesn't seem to have much independent significance. We could do better by listing another notable Norse god. Odin and Thor are both from the Æsir, while Freya is the most notable deity from the Vanir. In Norse mythology, half of the dead go to Odin's Valhalla, while the other half goes to Freya's Fólkvangr.
Fionn mac Cumhaill might be a good add to Celtic mythology (to represent other non-Greco-Roman traditions). -- Rsm77 ( talk) 01:04, 12 April 2014 (UTC) Oh, and how about Anansi for African traditions? -- Rsm77 ( talk) 01:09, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
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One sun deity for another. Aten's significance is entirely tied up with Akhenaten's legacy. Amaterasu is the most notable Shinto deity.
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There's no way Cerberus is more vital than Persephone, Theseus, the Titans, Dionysus/ Bacchus, Pan, Asclepius and Eros/ Cupid, none of whom are on the list. Surely the figure that all Han Chinese claim as their ancestor is more significant.
But according to that logic, User:Redtigerxyz, we could remove all the Greek gods if we just list Twelve Olympians, and all the Hindu gods if we list Hindu deities. Clearly that's not reasonable. The Yellow Emperor is the most significant of the Three Sovereigns and Five Emperors; I'd argue Shennong is vital as well. Cobblet ( talk) 17:05, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
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I like this suggestion of User:Rsm77's. We could use more representation of sub-Saharan African culture: all we've got right now is Traditional African religion and Yoruba religion.
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There isn't anything meaningful to say about these concepts that couldn't also be covered by courtship, romance and dating, all of which are on the list.
Romance is a pretty important topic, and think about how few articles there are about it on this list. Same with familial relationships. BTW, 'cuse me while I make a half-serious comment here: my next girlfriend is going to have a helluvalot more influence on me than even Barack Obama ;-) p b p 15:50, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
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A glaring omission.
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Gender is in the 1000 list but not the 10,000. Biology has sex, male, female. Sexuality has in the 1000 list Gender, Man, Woman. In the 10,000 list under sexuality, whoever compiled it added man and woman but forgot to add gender. It is a different article to sex as it covers the social and psychological aspects as well as biological, and as it's in the 1000 although not set in stone, it's logical it should really be here too. Carl wev 19:27, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
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Similar rationale to mustache above p b p 18:56, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
User:Maunus, what's your rationale for this and other quotidian items not being on this list? p b p 20:20, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
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Too specific – we don't even have suit (clothing). Also it's essentially just a type of scarf, which we do have on the list.
Once considered an essential piece of menswear in Europe & the Americas, now struggling for recognition on Wikipedia. :-) -- llywrch ( talk) 23:17, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
At present, the list of vital articles on sports leagues and championships consists of:
There seems to be a distinct American bias to this list of leagues and championships. What, if anything, should be done about this? Should we drop some of the American leagues and championships? Add a non-American soccer league like the UEFA Champions League? p b p 16:37, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
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By far the least-watched of the "big four" pro sports leagues p b p 22:34, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
The NBA may be slightly lower than the NHL in terms of butts in seats, but it's way ahead of the NHL in terms of average television audience. Per Major professional sports leagues in the United States and Canada#Television exposure, the 15 network-televised (ABC) NBA games have a share of 3.3, the 12 NHL games on NBC only average 1.0. Or, to put it another way, the second- and third-tier games of the NBA are watched by almost half a million more households than the top-tier games of the NHL. BTW, the same Wikipedia page lists the CFL and MLS as having higher average attendance than the NHL, but they are not on this list (and probably would never be added) p b p 23:32, 15 February 2014 (UTC)]]
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Important physical activity-related topic. Exists in most culturals, though with different names p b p 18:13, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
We don't have camping either. Cobblet ( talk) 19:25, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
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Yes, walking is a form of transportation, but it's also a form of physical activity. Should be in the section with Running rather than the section with vehicular transport p b p 18:13, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
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When you compare it to the other industries on the list, the fur trade is a very specific industry and a declining one at that. The textile industry is a much larger and broader industry.
Sorry, I didn't notice that textile manufacturing is already listed. I will withdraw this nomination. Still not sure if fur trade is vital. Ivory trade, another trade with animal welfare concerns isn't listed. If fur trade stays then other important historical trades such as spice trade have a strong case in being added. Right now we have none of international trade, import and export. Gizza ( t)( c) 03:46, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
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E-commerce is a growing form of trade and a growing part of the global economy. We currently have eBay and Amazon.com on the vital list but not the general phenomenon. I think even online shopping is more important than the most dominant websites. Not to mention the WP:POV, WP:COI and WP:SPAM issues involved with having all of these companies on the vital list. I was hesitant to propose this as a swap since I'm not sure what consensus will be.
The websites currently on VA/E are as follows: Facebook, Twitter, Google, YouTube, Wikipedia, eBay and Amazon.com. Then there are the seven companies: Apple, AT&T, IBM, General Electric, Microsoft, Standard Oil and Walmart. And finally to my knowledge there's Coca Cola and the car manufacturers: Toyota, GM, Ford, Nissan, Volkswagen and Honda. These seem to be all of the commercial entities on VA/E (excluding historical ones like British East India Company and Hanseatic League which are clearly vital and don't suffer from recentism).
How many of these should be kept? I think nearly all of the websites are too recentist and vulnerable to the next big thing. Six years ago we would have listed Myspace but now Myspace wouldn't even be in the vital 100,000. The automotive manufacturing companies seem balanced but do we really need that many from one industry? And the list of other companies as I said is 100% American which is obviously not balanced enough. I saw a "Remove Coca Cola" proposal in the archives fail and I agree that it should probably stay. It is one of the few brands and companies listed that has existed for more than 100 years.
Interestingly we don't have McDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut or Burger King. They would fit seamlessly well with the other companies on VA/E as it currently stands. Gizza ( t)( c) 13:38, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
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Since User:Maunus likes this more, I'll propose this too.
Incest wasn't always a taboo, some cultures encouraged cousin, or even sibling coupling, like Ancient Egypt for example. Incest article is longer, contains information on different definitions of the term, animal inbreeding and on where human incest is/was encouraged, permitted, disallowed, and tabood by law religion and cultural norms, it's a wider article that covers the topic from neutral POV, not just the taboo POV. the incest article is in 64 languages, but incest taboo is in only 7. I think information on where it was encouraged is just as interesting as the taboo aspect, we already have "taboo" anyway, and the incest article covers all aspects of incest, taboo and allowed. Cobblet you, yourself only just said you thought the incest taboo article was redundant, while I don't think it's redundant as an article, I think it's subsumed big time by incest in a 10'000 list.
I understand why you shifted but I'd prefer to keep the incest thread open, it's only been 2 days. I don't mind if a thread stays open for 15-60 days then closed, and I learn my POV is against consensus by a long shot shown by votes opposite to mine, but I'd prefer this not closed, as it's been 2 days and only one person, has opposed. I don't want my single opinion to be the decider, I think we should ask others opinions on which is better and go with consensus, and leave it for minimum 15 days not 2. Maybe we should have a thread for adding the topic, yes or no, then another for which should we have A or B or both, then if we decide the topic should be included, we pick the highest vote out of A or B. I don't know just an idea. This isn't meant as bickering or anything, I just prefer the previous thread not closed. Carl wev 17:06, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
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Fingerspelling is a way of representing alphabetic writing with handshapes. As with punctuation it is a simple set of conventions that are epiphenomenal to the orthography. As Cobblet mentions above orthography is not currently on the list.
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Suicide is a crime in some countries but in many countries it isn't. Even if suicide is illegal it is not necessarily a crime. Putting suicide in the list of crimes is like putting prostitution in the list of crimes. No matter where you are suicide is always a social issue. It fits in nicely with euthanasia, abortion etc.
I thought it looked miss placed a while back. Funny you mention prostitution, I added that myself a long time ago, the crime/non-crime thought was in my head then, in some places and at certain times in history it is a crime, and others it is not, I placed it in sexuality, as it's always in that area, it could've been an industry too perhaps. Suicide too, not always a crime but always an "issue" and it does fit with euthanasia and abortion, deliberate causes of death, that are sometimes illegal sometimes not. Carl wev 18:52, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
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This topic I think should defiantly be in, and two others have shown interest too, I actually thought we already had it but we don't. Can't really do it justice in one paragraph, but there are loads of phobias, and the topic is well known and studied, and of interest to experts and general readers, I believe it's generally regarded as an important topic, and quite wide spread. According to the article different studies suggest any where between 4% and 26.5% of people have or did have at least one phobia. Could just as easily go in medicine, mental illness, as psychology, but article appears to use words and phrases fitting psychology more, but only slightly so I suggest putting in psychology, I wouldn't oppose it going in medicine though if everyone else preferred that. There are probably more reasons to include it that I've forgotten to mention too. Carl wev 14:51, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
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Wheat covers the whole genus Triticum (and hybrids between Triticum species and species in other genera). I don't think we need particular hybrids/species of wheat. Even if subtypes of wheat are included, spelt and triticale are poor choices. The most widely grown wheats in recent times are common wheat (by far) and durum. For historic importance, I'd go with emmer over spelt, but there are others ( einkorn wheat, Khorasan wheat, etc). I suspect spelt and triticale were listed because they are often minor ingredients in multi-grain breads and baked products (that are predominantly common wheat). They're not really very important, but a little bit of spelt and triticale lets bakers advertise an 11-grain bread. Plantdrew ( talk) 01:57, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
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Classify Ayurveda as "Fields of medicine" under alternative medicine. It is currently listed in Religion under Hinduism.
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Sure, they're dwarf planets, but there are many more vital and interesting astronomical objects than them that are not listed currently (e.g. Whirlpool Galaxy, Barnard's Star, SN 1987A, 3C 273, Crab Nebula) that are of more fundamental importance.
User:StringTheory11, what do you think of adding minor planet or even subtypes of minor planets? Cobblet ( talk) 18:53, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
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We currently have no quasars on the list. 3C 273 is the brightest known quasar and one of the most studied of all astronomical objects.
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Remove a specific variable star, add an overarching type of variable star.
User:StringTheory11, the two adds you suggested both redirect to sections of variable star. Are there stand-alone articles we should add instead? Also I excluded RR Lyrae from your proposal since Carlwev already proposed its removal. Cobblet ( talk) 18:58, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
Remove a specific variable star, add the type it represents.
Eclipsing binary redirects to a section of binary star which is already on the list. Cobblet ( talk) 19:00, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
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A stage of evolution in the most massive stars; these stars have incredibly unique properties and are of fundamental importance in understanding stellar evolution.
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We already have black hole; I don't see a reason to include this subtopic
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The birthplaces of stars; certainly vital, especially when we include topics such as circumstellar disk
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We already have orbit; I don't see a reason to include these as well.
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Should units of measurement used in astronomy, and similar articles, be in astronomy or measurement, or somewhere else? and others look slightly displaced. Bare in mind, light year and parsec are in measurement. Ones I've noticed Astronomy that I'm unsure of are, Magnitude (astronomy), which is a unit of measurement. Schwarzschild radius, not sure on that one. Parallax, not only used in astronomy, can be used by humans and animals to judge nearby objects distance. Cosmic distance ladder, is to do with measurement. Angular resolution can be to do with several optics areas including microscopes, satellite images of Earth, resolution of any photography/optics not just astronomy. Photometry (astronomy) and Astrometry both to do with measurement.
Some are only to do with measurement, some several areas not only astronomy, I point out everything to do with measurement seems to be in measurement not in what it's measuring. Eg, units measuring temperature and mass are in measurement not with mass, heat and temperature in physics; angle, length, distance, volume is in maths but degrees, litre, metre etc is in measurement. Wouldn't it make sense therefore to have astronomy measurement in measurement too, to follow suit? Carl wev 11:34, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
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We've already got the general cooking appliances: oven, microwave oven, stove and electric stove. Coffeemaker is no more important than other specific cooking appliances like toaster, kettle, rice cooker, waffle iron, etc. Barbeque is more significant than coffeemaker but I'm not sure if it is vital.
Does anyone think that we should still keep electric stove? I think we could replace it with fundamental cooking methods such as frying and roasting since we already have baking and boiling. Gizza ( t)( c) 14:25, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
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State of the art warships for less than 20 years in the early 20th century, and of minor strategic importance in the major conflict of that time.
you're probably right, do you think it would be good to replace with destroyer? ships classified as destroyer have been in use from the late 19th century to present day, and probably continue for longer into future. Carl wev 18:41, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
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Fibonacci numbers are one of the most well known sequences in mathematics. It is the 8th most viewed mathematics article. Also note that many of the entries above it are either biographies or have an inflated view count due to pop cultural events such as Pi Day.
Fibonacci has applications beyond mathematics in nature/biology, computing/information technology as well as finance (see for example, phyllotaxis, Fibonacci coding and Fibonacci retracement respectively).
We're currently 40 articles under the target number of 300 which is why I proposed this as a straight add. I went through the list quickly and there aren't any topics that clearly stand out as non-vital anyway. I believe 300 (3% of total) is a reasonable number to aspire to as mathematics is slightly more important than say chemistry or physics individually. And unlike many articles in History, Arts, Society, Philosophy and Religion, Geography and Organisms which only have regional or local significance, nearly every article in Mathematics is universal in importance and application. 300 is if anything quite low when you consider the amount of time all educated people have spent studying mathematics compared to other areas of knowledge during their time in school. Gizza ( t)( c) 03:57, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
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Median is the The 67th most viewed mathematics article. The distinction between median and mean is crucial in understanding various probability distributions, skewness and data analysis. The median is often is better tool than mean/average to represent the middle point or average of a data set when the data set contains outliers.
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Computer science intersects many fields besides chemistry – let's not list all the permutations. Adding topics on how computer science is applied to other fields might be the better way to go.
Computer science is often considered a branch of applied mathematics, and indeed we've got theoretical computer science and some subtopics listed under Mathematics. But we've also got a bunch of computer science articles under Technology/Computing and Information Technology. I suggest we move all the computer science articles into a new Computer science section under Mathematics – any objections? Cobblet ( talk) 02:14, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
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Out of 31 music genres and forms, there is one Eastern genre Gamelan. There are some genres with influences from African traditional music (Reggae, Soul, Jazz). But by and large nearly every genre listed is a Western genre. Interestingly we have the most famous export of one type of Indian classical music (Hindustani) to the West in Ravi Shankar on the 1000 but not don't have the style of music on the expanded list.
To be honest, I think the two distinct traditions of ICM ( Hindustani classical music and Carnatic music) along with Filmi will adequately cover the area but I doubt there will be support for 3 additions. Other Eastern forms we can add include Guoyue and Chinese opera (which would be added in the performing arts section, not here obviously). Also we have Bossa nova, a fusion of Jazz and Samba, but don't have Samba which has a much longer history. Gizza ( t)( c) 03:32, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
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Three Sovereigns and Five Emperors are legendary or semi-historic figures. Redtigerxyz Talk 09:55, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
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Hot sauce isn't that great an article (basically a list), but the condiment is used in cuisines almost globally.
Would fish sauce be worth adding? The core of the condiment list ( mustard, ketchup, mayonnaise) seem pretty US-centric. Not that these 3 condiments aren't popular in other western countries, but they are the anchors of a US supermarket's condiment aisle. Are they globally vital? Plantdrew ( talk) 03:42, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
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I don't think any game meat should be vital, but surely poultry ought to be.
PointsofNoReturn, you voted twice here, once as "support" under the Support section, and once as "support" under the Oppose section. Do you mean to support the swap or not? Plantdrew ( talk) 04:11, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
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This one specific type of soft drink would not be any more vital than others like cream soda or root beer if it weren't for Coca-Cola and its competitors. Since that's already listed, I don't think we need this.
I might support this although I'm pretty neutral here but we have many alcoholic drinks, while soft drinks are maybe drank more, but yes we do have Coca-Cola the top player of cola. We have Lemonade too, about the same importance as cola? and the only fruit specific soft drink. Also we don't have orange juice or squash (drink) which are roughly equal to cola. Carl wev 13:26, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
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We list several examples of fast food on the list but not the general concept, which forms the basis of a highly prominent, successful and controversial modern industry.
PointsofNoReturn, you've got a "support" under the Oppose section. Do you want to see fast food added, or do you oppose adding it? Plantdrew ( talk) 04:11, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
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If by "relish" we mean fruit preserves, that's already on the list; if we mean chopped pickles that some people put on hamburgers and hot dogs, I don't see how that's vital. Since we're listing things like ketchup and mayonnaise, surely the sauce that's essential to the cuisines of East and Southeast Asia is vital as well. I would argue soy sauce is more vital than other soy products like soy milk and tofu which are already listed.
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By some (potentially outdated) statistics, the 11th largest family of plants, and the only one in the biggest 14 not on the vital list. Worldwide distribution and species in this family are often ecologically dominant plants in wetland habitats. I've proposed above removing from the vital list two of the species that are most important to humans ( Cyperus esculentus and Cyperus papyrus), as their human importance is still relatively minor. Ecological importance of the species in the family collectively outweighs some minor human uses.
I'm not highly invested in getting this added, but I do think it's a better candidate for the vital list than the (currently listed) Juncus. There are 3 plant families with similar appearance that are the subject of Wikipedia's grass article (which isn't a very good article, but might be a potential add as a vital concept). Individually, the 3 families are the "true grasses", sedges, and rushes. True grasses are the Poaceae (vital listed), and rushes are Juncaceae (represented on the vital list by the largest genus, Juncus). Sedges are Cyperaceae, the third "grass" family, but include many more species than the rushes, and are more common/ecologically important than the rushes. I'd like to see all 3 (grasses/sedges/rushes) represented on the vital list, but if there are only two, it should be grasses and sedges. If it'll help move this add proposal through, I could sweeten the pot by proposing removal of Juncus. Let me know. Plantdrew ( talk) 03:54, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
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I'll admit I'm no expert in this field -- my specialties are computers & the liberal arts -- but I was under the impression that Ohm's law is one of the foundations of Electronic engineering. This section does show a bias towards things, rather than concepts, so that might be why this was overlooked. In any case, there has been no discussion about whether this belongs in the Vital 10K, so I'm starting one here.
If you haven't already, you may want to check the Physical sciences/Physics section, which has the concepts you're looking for. We don't list this but we do have Electrical resistance and conductance which covers the topic more generally (not all materials are ohmic, of course). But in general our coverage of EM is pretty sparse – I'm alarmed we don't have Kirchhoff's circuit laws, for instance. Cobblet ( talk) 17:44, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
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We have wind power, windmill, and wind turbine, solar power plus solar cell. We don't have watermill. I was also thinking of Water wheel also/instead what do people think of that, there is overlap but no more than having windmill, wind power and wind turbine, I don't think any of them should get booted though, not really. Carl wev 15:42, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
We have hydropower, but that includes modern methods as well as medieval and ancient. We should probably have hydroelectricity before listing 3 examples of dams that we have. There is some overlap, but these are important topics and the wind and solar power articles overlap too. Hydroelectricity was also once included in the smaller vital 1000 but was swapped out for hydropower, in the 10'000 list I believe both should be in. Carl wev 15:42, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
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Essential cleaning chemicals, like soap.
Feel free to split this thread if you like one more than the other. Cobblet ( talk) 00:33, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
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Sandpaper seems a little too specific to me, but the concept of an abrasive is probably vital, especially when we don't have polishing.
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At least as important as fireplace; more so, I'd argue, since there's the industrial application as well. And apart from fireplace, we have nothing on how buildings are heated. We have many household appliances of lesser importance.
I think we should consider adding central heating and ventilation (architecture) as well. Cobblet ( talk) 10:31, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
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Important and relevant large effect on modern warfare and how it plays out. We have several firearms and several swords, which although I don't want to remove any, naval mine is more relevant than several types of sword. We also have land mine. In English and most other languages I've checked land and naval mines are always 2 separate articles, mine in English is a disambiguation page; there is no single article that covers them both we could have instead. I attempted a swap last July with Molotov cocktail but that article was more popular than I thought with 2 people said they like the add but not the remove. see here Carl wev 15:16, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
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The most famous teacher of Jainism.-- Redtigerxyz Talk 11:00, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
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Why isn't George Washington a level-4 vital article? He is the founder of the United States of America. I was surprised to find George Washington as a level 3 vital article. If other presidents are on the level-4 vital article list, shouldn't George Washington be on it too? PointsofNoReturn ( talk) 20:15, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
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Western medicine begins with him and Hippocrates. His writings account for nearly half of all extant literature from ancient Greece.
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We now have 16 articles under History of science and technology, and 14 under History of other topics. However, many other history articles are scattered throughout the other pages. For example, History of aviation is under Technology, and History of radio is under Society. I propose moving all such articles to the History subpage for consistency.
Which topics exactly do you propose moving? Just any topic that has the word "history" in the title, or any topics of primarily historical interest as well? Would you move alchemy for example? Cobblet ( talk) 05:25, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
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I've previously mentioned that the geography section is distorted in particular areas. This distortion seems to have happened when there was an urgent need to reduce the size of the section. But some vital articles were hastily removed while non-vital articles managed to survive.
Bihar is the third most populous state in India and was the place of origin of Buddhism, the Maurya Empire and Gupta Empire. In modern times it is unfortunately notable for being the poorest major state in India, always hovering around the bottom in GDP per capita and HDI rankings.
Jabalpur and Aurangabad are the third and fifth most populous cities in the states of Madhya Pradesh and Maharashtra respectively. There is nothing that makes Jabalpur significant or vital enough to be on a list when you compare it with the other Indian cities. Aurangabad's main point of significance is as a transit point for the Ajanta Caves and Ellora Caves. These World Heritage archeological sites are more vital than the city you need to reach to see them as a tourist. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:03, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
I framed this as a "Remove 2, Add 1" swap so nobody can argue bloat and excess as a reason to oppose. IMO, considering that India is a predominantly rural country, 38 cities/metro areas is too much while 8 regions is too little. Cutting down the list of cities to 30 and increasing the regions to at 12 or 13 will capture more of what is vital in the country. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:03, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
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Performing arts contains 46 articles, we have circus already, plus clown, I can't imagine why an individual circus company would make the say top 50 most vital performing arts articles, over another performing art, circus type or other, we don't have other circus things like juggling, trapeze, tightrope, fire eating, sword swallowing, freak show, lion taming, most or all of these probably don't deserve to be in, but are probably higher importance than this circus company. We don't have any other circus company, if we list one why only one is it head and shoulders above all others? if several, it will be too many. More important topics might be older ones like Circus Maximus or gladiator. There must also be more performing arts things missing not related to circuses too. I've been thinking about Bull fighting for a while, a performing art/blood sport, historical and traditional but still around and controversial too, Carl wev 16:33, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
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We have 100's of actors, more directors and about 40 movies, some film awards. Movies are on shown on TV which we have, not sure if we have anything of home entertainment like VHS and DVD? Film's primary venue is movie theaters, and has been for over 100 years. We list other venues like swimming pool in addition to swimming sport, stadium for sport, gambling and casino. I think movie theater belongs in the top 100 articles for film, and we have well over 100 articles in the film area. The only thing that covers the movie theater at all really is "film" itself, but that is a very wide topic and appears in the vital 100 list, we can't miss off all things covered slightly by a vital 100 article. Carl wev 13:19, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
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I think we only need one article on Arthurian legend. Since that redirects to King Arthur, we'll keep that. Even Le Morte d'Arthur, which we also have, doesn't seem so vital to me (it seems less vital than Panchatantra, Grimms' Fairy Tales or Aesop's Fables, anyway).
To continue the discussion from above, I agree the Panchatantra is an excellent addition, and that it obviously belongs under Literature, not here. I'm having a hard time thinking of Asian characters that are non-historical, non-mythological, and not already covered by a work of literature on the list. From China I can't think of a better example than Mulan that fits that narrow category, but there are several mythological and semi-historical figures that would be more noteworthy. Cobblet ( talk) 07:11, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
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Another example of the Western bias I'm referring to. We already list three of the most notable examples of Western esotericism: Freemasonry, Gnosticism and Rosicrucianism.
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I mentioned in another thread how arbitrary our selection of new religious movements seems to be. The collective phenomenon might be vital, but individually the movements don't look so vital to me. Even a non-organized movement like New Age would appear to be more important.
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The movement is a new religion movement founded in 2010 [1], before that they were a sect within Sikhism and Hinduism. The religious movement has not had coverage in encyclopedias. Britannica does not even have an entry for it. Redtigerxyz Talk 13:56, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Our selection of new religious movements seems pretty arbitrary – Ravidassia, Hare Krishna, Falun Gong and Scientology, but not Cao Đài, Yiguandao, Tenrikyo or Rastafarianism. Such movements have a tendency to come and go (see Christian Science and Spiritualism) and maybe it's better to have the parent article than specific examples. Cobblet ( talk) 21:13, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Am the only one who thinks this is a little excessive? If they were in the "Fictional characters" list, they'd be 40-50% of the list. There are more people from Greek and Roman mythology on the list than there are from the Bible, a lot more. Any thoughts? p b p 20:47, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
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Of the 13 Greek deities, she seems of to be the least importance p b p 00:16, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
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We don't even have Helen of Troy, and we have Cassandra. We have plenty of other Iliad figures on the list already p b p 00:16, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
pbp, any thoughts on adding Hector? Cobblet ( talk) 17:22, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
Each of the Roman gods on this list is a knock-off (and, yes, I mean knock-off) of a Greek god on the list. Aside of having stuff named after them, what's their significance? Particularly when Minerva was never on the list to begin with? p b p 00:16, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
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As stated above, I don't think there's a pressing need for a lot of Roman gods, but I was surprised Minerva (who appears on a lot of iconography) didn't make the cut. This would leave us with Minerva, Jupiter (dah boss), Mars and Venus (personifications of masculinity and femininity) p b p 15:58, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
I thought Saturn might be worth listing too, since he's both well known and seems to be less Hellenized than most of the other Roman gods. Cobblet ( talk) 19:24, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
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Woden is the Continental/Anglo-Saxon equivalent of the Norse Odin and doesn't seem to have much independent significance. We could do better by listing another notable Norse god. Odin and Thor are both from the Æsir, while Freya is the most notable deity from the Vanir. In Norse mythology, half of the dead go to Odin's Valhalla, while the other half goes to Freya's Fólkvangr.
Fionn mac Cumhaill might be a good add to Celtic mythology (to represent other non-Greco-Roman traditions). -- Rsm77 ( talk) 01:04, 12 April 2014 (UTC) Oh, and how about Anansi for African traditions? -- Rsm77 ( talk) 01:09, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
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One sun deity for another. Aten's significance is entirely tied up with Akhenaten's legacy. Amaterasu is the most notable Shinto deity.
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There's no way Cerberus is more vital than Persephone, Theseus, the Titans, Dionysus/ Bacchus, Pan, Asclepius and Eros/ Cupid, none of whom are on the list. Surely the figure that all Han Chinese claim as their ancestor is more significant.
But according to that logic, User:Redtigerxyz, we could remove all the Greek gods if we just list Twelve Olympians, and all the Hindu gods if we list Hindu deities. Clearly that's not reasonable. The Yellow Emperor is the most significant of the Three Sovereigns and Five Emperors; I'd argue Shennong is vital as well. Cobblet ( talk) 17:05, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
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I like this suggestion of User:Rsm77's. We could use more representation of sub-Saharan African culture: all we've got right now is Traditional African religion and Yoruba religion.
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There isn't anything meaningful to say about these concepts that couldn't also be covered by courtship, romance and dating, all of which are on the list.
Romance is a pretty important topic, and think about how few articles there are about it on this list. Same with familial relationships. BTW, 'cuse me while I make a half-serious comment here: my next girlfriend is going to have a helluvalot more influence on me than even Barack Obama ;-) p b p 15:50, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
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A glaring omission.
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Gender is in the 1000 list but not the 10,000. Biology has sex, male, female. Sexuality has in the 1000 list Gender, Man, Woman. In the 10,000 list under sexuality, whoever compiled it added man and woman but forgot to add gender. It is a different article to sex as it covers the social and psychological aspects as well as biological, and as it's in the 1000 although not set in stone, it's logical it should really be here too. Carl wev 19:27, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
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Similar rationale to mustache above p b p 18:56, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
User:Maunus, what's your rationale for this and other quotidian items not being on this list? p b p 20:20, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
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Too specific – we don't even have suit (clothing). Also it's essentially just a type of scarf, which we do have on the list.
Once considered an essential piece of menswear in Europe & the Americas, now struggling for recognition on Wikipedia. :-) -- llywrch ( talk) 23:17, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
At present, the list of vital articles on sports leagues and championships consists of:
There seems to be a distinct American bias to this list of leagues and championships. What, if anything, should be done about this? Should we drop some of the American leagues and championships? Add a non-American soccer league like the UEFA Champions League? p b p 16:37, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
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By far the least-watched of the "big four" pro sports leagues p b p 22:34, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
The NBA may be slightly lower than the NHL in terms of butts in seats, but it's way ahead of the NHL in terms of average television audience. Per Major professional sports leagues in the United States and Canada#Television exposure, the 15 network-televised (ABC) NBA games have a share of 3.3, the 12 NHL games on NBC only average 1.0. Or, to put it another way, the second- and third-tier games of the NBA are watched by almost half a million more households than the top-tier games of the NHL. BTW, the same Wikipedia page lists the CFL and MLS as having higher average attendance than the NHL, but they are not on this list (and probably would never be added) p b p 23:32, 15 February 2014 (UTC)]]
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Important physical activity-related topic. Exists in most culturals, though with different names p b p 18:13, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
We don't have camping either. Cobblet ( talk) 19:25, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
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Yes, walking is a form of transportation, but it's also a form of physical activity. Should be in the section with Running rather than the section with vehicular transport p b p 18:13, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
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When you compare it to the other industries on the list, the fur trade is a very specific industry and a declining one at that. The textile industry is a much larger and broader industry.
Sorry, I didn't notice that textile manufacturing is already listed. I will withdraw this nomination. Still not sure if fur trade is vital. Ivory trade, another trade with animal welfare concerns isn't listed. If fur trade stays then other important historical trades such as spice trade have a strong case in being added. Right now we have none of international trade, import and export. Gizza ( t)( c) 03:46, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
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E-commerce is a growing form of trade and a growing part of the global economy. We currently have eBay and Amazon.com on the vital list but not the general phenomenon. I think even online shopping is more important than the most dominant websites. Not to mention the WP:POV, WP:COI and WP:SPAM issues involved with having all of these companies on the vital list. I was hesitant to propose this as a swap since I'm not sure what consensus will be.
The websites currently on VA/E are as follows: Facebook, Twitter, Google, YouTube, Wikipedia, eBay and Amazon.com. Then there are the seven companies: Apple, AT&T, IBM, General Electric, Microsoft, Standard Oil and Walmart. And finally to my knowledge there's Coca Cola and the car manufacturers: Toyota, GM, Ford, Nissan, Volkswagen and Honda. These seem to be all of the commercial entities on VA/E (excluding historical ones like British East India Company and Hanseatic League which are clearly vital and don't suffer from recentism).
How many of these should be kept? I think nearly all of the websites are too recentist and vulnerable to the next big thing. Six years ago we would have listed Myspace but now Myspace wouldn't even be in the vital 100,000. The automotive manufacturing companies seem balanced but do we really need that many from one industry? And the list of other companies as I said is 100% American which is obviously not balanced enough. I saw a "Remove Coca Cola" proposal in the archives fail and I agree that it should probably stay. It is one of the few brands and companies listed that has existed for more than 100 years.
Interestingly we don't have McDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut or Burger King. They would fit seamlessly well with the other companies on VA/E as it currently stands. Gizza ( t)( c) 13:38, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
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Since User:Maunus likes this more, I'll propose this too.
Incest wasn't always a taboo, some cultures encouraged cousin, or even sibling coupling, like Ancient Egypt for example. Incest article is longer, contains information on different definitions of the term, animal inbreeding and on where human incest is/was encouraged, permitted, disallowed, and tabood by law religion and cultural norms, it's a wider article that covers the topic from neutral POV, not just the taboo POV. the incest article is in 64 languages, but incest taboo is in only 7. I think information on where it was encouraged is just as interesting as the taboo aspect, we already have "taboo" anyway, and the incest article covers all aspects of incest, taboo and allowed. Cobblet you, yourself only just said you thought the incest taboo article was redundant, while I don't think it's redundant as an article, I think it's subsumed big time by incest in a 10'000 list.
I understand why you shifted but I'd prefer to keep the incest thread open, it's only been 2 days. I don't mind if a thread stays open for 15-60 days then closed, and I learn my POV is against consensus by a long shot shown by votes opposite to mine, but I'd prefer this not closed, as it's been 2 days and only one person, has opposed. I don't want my single opinion to be the decider, I think we should ask others opinions on which is better and go with consensus, and leave it for minimum 15 days not 2. Maybe we should have a thread for adding the topic, yes or no, then another for which should we have A or B or both, then if we decide the topic should be included, we pick the highest vote out of A or B. I don't know just an idea. This isn't meant as bickering or anything, I just prefer the previous thread not closed. Carl wev 17:06, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
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Fingerspelling is a way of representing alphabetic writing with handshapes. As with punctuation it is a simple set of conventions that are epiphenomenal to the orthography. As Cobblet mentions above orthography is not currently on the list.
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Suicide is a crime in some countries but in many countries it isn't. Even if suicide is illegal it is not necessarily a crime. Putting suicide in the list of crimes is like putting prostitution in the list of crimes. No matter where you are suicide is always a social issue. It fits in nicely with euthanasia, abortion etc.
I thought it looked miss placed a while back. Funny you mention prostitution, I added that myself a long time ago, the crime/non-crime thought was in my head then, in some places and at certain times in history it is a crime, and others it is not, I placed it in sexuality, as it's always in that area, it could've been an industry too perhaps. Suicide too, not always a crime but always an "issue" and it does fit with euthanasia and abortion, deliberate causes of death, that are sometimes illegal sometimes not. Carl wev 18:52, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
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This topic I think should defiantly be in, and two others have shown interest too, I actually thought we already had it but we don't. Can't really do it justice in one paragraph, but there are loads of phobias, and the topic is well known and studied, and of interest to experts and general readers, I believe it's generally regarded as an important topic, and quite wide spread. According to the article different studies suggest any where between 4% and 26.5% of people have or did have at least one phobia. Could just as easily go in medicine, mental illness, as psychology, but article appears to use words and phrases fitting psychology more, but only slightly so I suggest putting in psychology, I wouldn't oppose it going in medicine though if everyone else preferred that. There are probably more reasons to include it that I've forgotten to mention too. Carl wev 14:51, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
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Wheat covers the whole genus Triticum (and hybrids between Triticum species and species in other genera). I don't think we need particular hybrids/species of wheat. Even if subtypes of wheat are included, spelt and triticale are poor choices. The most widely grown wheats in recent times are common wheat (by far) and durum. For historic importance, I'd go with emmer over spelt, but there are others ( einkorn wheat, Khorasan wheat, etc). I suspect spelt and triticale were listed because they are often minor ingredients in multi-grain breads and baked products (that are predominantly common wheat). They're not really very important, but a little bit of spelt and triticale lets bakers advertise an 11-grain bread. Plantdrew ( talk) 01:57, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
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Classify Ayurveda as "Fields of medicine" under alternative medicine. It is currently listed in Religion under Hinduism.
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Sure, they're dwarf planets, but there are many more vital and interesting astronomical objects than them that are not listed currently (e.g. Whirlpool Galaxy, Barnard's Star, SN 1987A, 3C 273, Crab Nebula) that are of more fundamental importance.
User:StringTheory11, what do you think of adding minor planet or even subtypes of minor planets? Cobblet ( talk) 18:53, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
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We currently have no quasars on the list. 3C 273 is the brightest known quasar and one of the most studied of all astronomical objects.
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Remove a specific variable star, add an overarching type of variable star.
User:StringTheory11, the two adds you suggested both redirect to sections of variable star. Are there stand-alone articles we should add instead? Also I excluded RR Lyrae from your proposal since Carlwev already proposed its removal. Cobblet ( talk) 18:58, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
Remove a specific variable star, add the type it represents.
Eclipsing binary redirects to a section of binary star which is already on the list. Cobblet ( talk) 19:00, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
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A stage of evolution in the most massive stars; these stars have incredibly unique properties and are of fundamental importance in understanding stellar evolution.
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We already have black hole; I don't see a reason to include this subtopic
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The birthplaces of stars; certainly vital, especially when we include topics such as circumstellar disk
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We already have orbit; I don't see a reason to include these as well.
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Should units of measurement used in astronomy, and similar articles, be in astronomy or measurement, or somewhere else? and others look slightly displaced. Bare in mind, light year and parsec are in measurement. Ones I've noticed Astronomy that I'm unsure of are, Magnitude (astronomy), which is a unit of measurement. Schwarzschild radius, not sure on that one. Parallax, not only used in astronomy, can be used by humans and animals to judge nearby objects distance. Cosmic distance ladder, is to do with measurement. Angular resolution can be to do with several optics areas including microscopes, satellite images of Earth, resolution of any photography/optics not just astronomy. Photometry (astronomy) and Astrometry both to do with measurement.
Some are only to do with measurement, some several areas not only astronomy, I point out everything to do with measurement seems to be in measurement not in what it's measuring. Eg, units measuring temperature and mass are in measurement not with mass, heat and temperature in physics; angle, length, distance, volume is in maths but degrees, litre, metre etc is in measurement. Wouldn't it make sense therefore to have astronomy measurement in measurement too, to follow suit? Carl wev 11:34, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
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We've already got the general cooking appliances: oven, microwave oven, stove and electric stove. Coffeemaker is no more important than other specific cooking appliances like toaster, kettle, rice cooker, waffle iron, etc. Barbeque is more significant than coffeemaker but I'm not sure if it is vital.
Does anyone think that we should still keep electric stove? I think we could replace it with fundamental cooking methods such as frying and roasting since we already have baking and boiling. Gizza ( t)( c) 14:25, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
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State of the art warships for less than 20 years in the early 20th century, and of minor strategic importance in the major conflict of that time.
you're probably right, do you think it would be good to replace with destroyer? ships classified as destroyer have been in use from the late 19th century to present day, and probably continue for longer into future. Carl wev 18:41, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
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Fibonacci numbers are one of the most well known sequences in mathematics. It is the 8th most viewed mathematics article. Also note that many of the entries above it are either biographies or have an inflated view count due to pop cultural events such as Pi Day.
Fibonacci has applications beyond mathematics in nature/biology, computing/information technology as well as finance (see for example, phyllotaxis, Fibonacci coding and Fibonacci retracement respectively).
We're currently 40 articles under the target number of 300 which is why I proposed this as a straight add. I went through the list quickly and there aren't any topics that clearly stand out as non-vital anyway. I believe 300 (3% of total) is a reasonable number to aspire to as mathematics is slightly more important than say chemistry or physics individually. And unlike many articles in History, Arts, Society, Philosophy and Religion, Geography and Organisms which only have regional or local significance, nearly every article in Mathematics is universal in importance and application. 300 is if anything quite low when you consider the amount of time all educated people have spent studying mathematics compared to other areas of knowledge during their time in school. Gizza ( t)( c) 03:57, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
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Median is the The 67th most viewed mathematics article. The distinction between median and mean is crucial in understanding various probability distributions, skewness and data analysis. The median is often is better tool than mean/average to represent the middle point or average of a data set when the data set contains outliers.
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Computer science intersects many fields besides chemistry – let's not list all the permutations. Adding topics on how computer science is applied to other fields might be the better way to go.
Computer science is often considered a branch of applied mathematics, and indeed we've got theoretical computer science and some subtopics listed under Mathematics. But we've also got a bunch of computer science articles under Technology/Computing and Information Technology. I suggest we move all the computer science articles into a new Computer science section under Mathematics – any objections? Cobblet ( talk) 02:14, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
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Out of 31 music genres and forms, there is one Eastern genre Gamelan. There are some genres with influences from African traditional music (Reggae, Soul, Jazz). But by and large nearly every genre listed is a Western genre. Interestingly we have the most famous export of one type of Indian classical music (Hindustani) to the West in Ravi Shankar on the 1000 but not don't have the style of music on the expanded list.
To be honest, I think the two distinct traditions of ICM ( Hindustani classical music and Carnatic music) along with Filmi will adequately cover the area but I doubt there will be support for 3 additions. Other Eastern forms we can add include Guoyue and Chinese opera (which would be added in the performing arts section, not here obviously). Also we have Bossa nova, a fusion of Jazz and Samba, but don't have Samba which has a much longer history. Gizza ( t)( c) 03:32, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
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Three Sovereigns and Five Emperors are legendary or semi-historic figures. Redtigerxyz Talk 09:55, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
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Hot sauce isn't that great an article (basically a list), but the condiment is used in cuisines almost globally.
Would fish sauce be worth adding? The core of the condiment list ( mustard, ketchup, mayonnaise) seem pretty US-centric. Not that these 3 condiments aren't popular in other western countries, but they are the anchors of a US supermarket's condiment aisle. Are they globally vital? Plantdrew ( talk) 03:42, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
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I don't think any game meat should be vital, but surely poultry ought to be.
PointsofNoReturn, you voted twice here, once as "support" under the Support section, and once as "support" under the Oppose section. Do you mean to support the swap or not? Plantdrew ( talk) 04:11, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
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This one specific type of soft drink would not be any more vital than others like cream soda or root beer if it weren't for Coca-Cola and its competitors. Since that's already listed, I don't think we need this.
I might support this although I'm pretty neutral here but we have many alcoholic drinks, while soft drinks are maybe drank more, but yes we do have Coca-Cola the top player of cola. We have Lemonade too, about the same importance as cola? and the only fruit specific soft drink. Also we don't have orange juice or squash (drink) which are roughly equal to cola. Carl wev 13:26, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
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We list several examples of fast food on the list but not the general concept, which forms the basis of a highly prominent, successful and controversial modern industry.
PointsofNoReturn, you've got a "support" under the Oppose section. Do you want to see fast food added, or do you oppose adding it? Plantdrew ( talk) 04:11, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
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If by "relish" we mean fruit preserves, that's already on the list; if we mean chopped pickles that some people put on hamburgers and hot dogs, I don't see how that's vital. Since we're listing things like ketchup and mayonnaise, surely the sauce that's essential to the cuisines of East and Southeast Asia is vital as well. I would argue soy sauce is more vital than other soy products like soy milk and tofu which are already listed.
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By some (potentially outdated) statistics, the 11th largest family of plants, and the only one in the biggest 14 not on the vital list. Worldwide distribution and species in this family are often ecologically dominant plants in wetland habitats. I've proposed above removing from the vital list two of the species that are most important to humans ( Cyperus esculentus and Cyperus papyrus), as their human importance is still relatively minor. Ecological importance of the species in the family collectively outweighs some minor human uses.
I'm not highly invested in getting this added, but I do think it's a better candidate for the vital list than the (currently listed) Juncus. There are 3 plant families with similar appearance that are the subject of Wikipedia's grass article (which isn't a very good article, but might be a potential add as a vital concept). Individually, the 3 families are the "true grasses", sedges, and rushes. True grasses are the Poaceae (vital listed), and rushes are Juncaceae (represented on the vital list by the largest genus, Juncus). Sedges are Cyperaceae, the third "grass" family, but include many more species than the rushes, and are more common/ecologically important than the rushes. I'd like to see all 3 (grasses/sedges/rushes) represented on the vital list, but if there are only two, it should be grasses and sedges. If it'll help move this add proposal through, I could sweeten the pot by proposing removal of Juncus. Let me know. Plantdrew ( talk) 03:54, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
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I'll admit I'm no expert in this field -- my specialties are computers & the liberal arts -- but I was under the impression that Ohm's law is one of the foundations of Electronic engineering. This section does show a bias towards things, rather than concepts, so that might be why this was overlooked. In any case, there has been no discussion about whether this belongs in the Vital 10K, so I'm starting one here.
If you haven't already, you may want to check the Physical sciences/Physics section, which has the concepts you're looking for. We don't list this but we do have Electrical resistance and conductance which covers the topic more generally (not all materials are ohmic, of course). But in general our coverage of EM is pretty sparse – I'm alarmed we don't have Kirchhoff's circuit laws, for instance. Cobblet ( talk) 17:44, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
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We have wind power, windmill, and wind turbine, solar power plus solar cell. We don't have watermill. I was also thinking of Water wheel also/instead what do people think of that, there is overlap but no more than having windmill, wind power and wind turbine, I don't think any of them should get booted though, not really. Carl wev 15:42, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
We have hydropower, but that includes modern methods as well as medieval and ancient. We should probably have hydroelectricity before listing 3 examples of dams that we have. There is some overlap, but these are important topics and the wind and solar power articles overlap too. Hydroelectricity was also once included in the smaller vital 1000 but was swapped out for hydropower, in the 10'000 list I believe both should be in. Carl wev 15:42, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
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Essential cleaning chemicals, like soap.
Feel free to split this thread if you like one more than the other. Cobblet ( talk) 00:33, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
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Sandpaper seems a little too specific to me, but the concept of an abrasive is probably vital, especially when we don't have polishing.
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At least as important as fireplace; more so, I'd argue, since there's the industrial application as well. And apart from fireplace, we have nothing on how buildings are heated. We have many household appliances of lesser importance.
I think we should consider adding central heating and ventilation (architecture) as well. Cobblet ( talk) 10:31, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
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Important and relevant large effect on modern warfare and how it plays out. We have several firearms and several swords, which although I don't want to remove any, naval mine is more relevant than several types of sword. We also have land mine. In English and most other languages I've checked land and naval mines are always 2 separate articles, mine in English is a disambiguation page; there is no single article that covers them both we could have instead. I attempted a swap last July with Molotov cocktail but that article was more popular than I thought with 2 people said they like the add but not the remove. see here Carl wev 15:16, 8 March 2014 (UTC)