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The first Nobel Laureate in Literature of Chinese citizenship, he is one of the most famous Chinese writers. Jucchan ( talk) 23:21, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
There are several titans of classical Chinese literature who are not listed; Mo Yan doesn't hold a candle to Su Shi or Wang Wei or Han Yu. Is there interest in adding such figures? Cobblet ( talk) 02:13, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
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Article about one of the most significant regions history for a half a millennium time period in the Iron Age, many Greek Myths are based in this real time period but we seem more focused in included many Greek myth characters and Gods, in addition to many real Greek people like writers philosophers and some leaders and artists too but have left off an article about the whole regions historical period lasting for 500 years. It's a very decent article and much written about and studied among people and books that cover ancient European history. We have too much Greek myth possibly but have left off some of it's most significant real history of the same era. Carl wev 20:21, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
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I think the cultural concept of the Australian interior is more significant than any specific physiographic province located within it.
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Surely the world's largest aquifer is a more notable feature of Australia's physical geography than one of its remote and sparsely populated peninsulas.
Speaking of Northeast Australia, Torres Strait could be swapped with Torres Strait Islands. The Strait is somewhat notable for its marine ecosystem and as a route for illegal immigration but not much. The Torres Strait Islands are home to Australia's second indigenous group, the Torres Strait Islanders who are distinct from Aboriginal Australians. Their culture and lifestyle is a fusion of Papuan, Aboriginal and Austronesian elements. Torres Strait Islanders developed agriculture unlike Aboriginal Australians who were purely hunter-gatherers. It is the TSI's who actually achieved indigenous land rights reform in Australia via Eddie Mabo who used the sedentary culture of the islands in his argument to overturn terra nullius. Gizza ( t)( c) 03:29, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
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Each of the Greater Sundas (Sumatra, Borneo, Java, Sulawesi) is already listed. I suggest adding the largest political entity in Oceania, which contains world-famous islands like Tahiti and Bora Bora.
The Lesser Sunda Islands, which are also listed, seem to be of around equal importance to the Greater Sunda Islands. Shouldn't they both be listed or both be removed? Sunda Islands is also an option, and it's the term that Britannica uses for this group of islands. Malerisch ( talk) 02:31, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
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Uninhabited islands in the Canadian Arctic. I think listing the world's two largest uninhabited islands ( Devon Island and Alexander Island) is reasonable but sufficient.
It does seem odd we have discussed to include or not, cities, regions, islands etc with population, history, culture and some significance while articles such as these remain. I guess our geography purge kind of skipped over islands and a lot of physical geography in general. Carl wev 13:33, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
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I think this is a vital encyclopedic topic. It may not have opted for independence like British and Dutch Guiana did, but I don't think its status as a French possession makes it less vital. If Corsica is vital, how is French Guiana, with a similar population and an even more distinct culture, not vital?
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Réunion and Mauritius are the two notable parts of this group of islands in the Indian Ocean. Réunion is the most populous entity on the list of countries by population that we do not include as vital. Again, if Corsica is vital, how is Réunion not?
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It is the archipelago (which forms a political and physiographic unit) that is vital as a whole, not its largest island.
#Oppose it's the only inhabited island in the archipelago and is historically important. --
Melody
Lavender 10:40, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
How does one check which of the two has more pageviews? The two articles seem almost equally important and somewhat similar in content. Svalbard is more popular with the WikiProjects, though. Maplestrip ( talk) 10:52, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
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I'm aware that this isn't the same thing as Scandinavia but they're so close that essentially a discussion of the Scandinavian Peninsula would be largely identical to one on the geography of Scandinavia. Surely this is a topic that can be covered by the latter article.
Don't The Americas have a similar problem? -Maplestrip (forgot signing, sorry)
I think, it was me who added Scandinavia over a year ago, not sure why the peninsula article was added first/instead. It took me ages to get Korea added then the Korean peninsula article removed, which people agreed with eventually for very similar rational as this thread. Carl wev 12:25, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
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Not all art is done by hauty-taughty professional artists. This article could potentially note working-class art from around the world. p b p 21:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Folk dance is another option. Folk music is already listed. Gizza ( t)( c) 00:06, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
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Of the 31 literary characters, the "easternmost" figure is Aladdin, demonstrating how skewed the list is. Hua Mulan's story stretches back 1500 years and is the best literary character to add from China. Her story is one of the best known in the world that explores gender roles in society. Way more vital than Wonder Woman. This will improve coverage of female characters as well, which are as expected a tiny minority currently (3.5 of the 31).
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The coverage of superheroes is outsized in comparison to other categories of fictional characters. We've removed far more significant and longer-lasting fictional characters from the list. I would say that Hulk is considerably less significant than Wonder Woman, and Wonder Woman's on the block right now. Marvel is not as long-lasting as its parent Disney or its competitor DC, so I'm not seeing a pervasive need for multiple Marvel heroes on this list. p b p 15:58, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
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Same rational as I explained above. We have Homer, Iliad, Achilles, Agamemnon, Odyssey, and Odysseus, (plus Troy and Trojan War in History too). Achilles is quite iconic but I have long thought Agamemnon is unnecessary. Greek mythology is quite well represented and some have said maybe too well, even so he's not really that important really is he? Even within Greek mythology characters/creatures like Medusa and Minotaur would be more vital I would have thought. There are real leaders we are leaving off to include this mythical one. We have removed Greek Gods that seem more vital. The Iliad has many characters some that also appear in other stories, there is Priam, Hector, Paris (mythology), Menelaus. Achilles has an argument for inclusion but I don't see why Agamemnon is that much more important than those other characters. Carl wev 18:34, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
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Arjuna and Rama are the protagonists of the two major cycles of hindu mythology. If we remove Hindu mythology from the mythology section then I think it would make sense to remove the entire section and instead add the two texts to the Religion section in order to consolidate. We already have Ramayana but not Mahabharata.
The Marabharata is already listed under Literature; in fact it's also on level 3. Cobblet ( talk) 06:34, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
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This is redundant with marriage which should clearly describe both religious and civil marriage. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:12, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
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Why do we have iced tea when we don't have iced coffee and chocolate milk? It's not even the second tea-related article to have after tea itself. Black tea or green tea would be. Not vital.
I also noticed that fermentation in food processing is included while fermentation (with a focus on biochemistry) is not. I wonder if they should be swapped. Gizza ( t)( c) 12:29, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
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Dish seems redundant with Meal, both are on level 4 and we have individual meals like lunch, breakfast, dinner, and individual dishes like entrée, main course, and dessert. Dish is more like a wiktionary definition. -- Melody Lavender 07:33, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
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Never done one of these before, so please be forgiving if I've formatted this wrong. With that out of the way, this is a game I've never heard of, that doesn't appear to have stood the test of time (unlike, say, Chess or Mancala) but instead has to cite a few examples of appearances in modern media to show notability. Tezero ( talk) 21:17, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Senet may have been the predecessor to backgammon. Other historical board games like Chaturanga, the predecessor to chess, are listed but chess as a whole is more significant than backgammon. I support adding Mesoamerican ballgame, Ancient Olympics and mob football and possibly some of gladiator, sepak takraw, kabaddi and calcio fiorentino. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:36, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
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We are lacking animated series, and besides The Simpsons, what is the most well-known and influential cartoon? That might just be Tom and Jerry.
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Basic human right that we take for granted but has been fought for throughout history. Important for democracy, voting, and other processes in politics. -- Melody Lavender 09:33, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
Just to let you know, freedom of speech and freedom of religion were proposed a year ago and failed here. Consensus may be different now but I'm still concerned that adding one freedom can result in adding a couple dozen more. Gizza ( t)( c) 01:30, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
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Since Massage recently failed here, I'm proposing the overaching article now. It includes massage and therapeutic gymnastics and similar and is popular with patients because it is a non-invasive treatment, no pills or surgery involved. The therapist just tells them how to move to increase or maintain mobility, for instance. -- Melody Lavender 05:59, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Massage didn't technically fail. There was no consensus to add it. After all, nobody opposed it. Gizza ( t)( c) 23:33, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
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A frequently heard disease, however the list does not contain this article.
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The force exerted on an object by a surface that prevents the object from going through the surface. Makes sense to add since we list most other forces that would fall in the same category in terms of how fundamental they are such as Tension (physics) and Drag (physics). Jucchan ( talk) 23:44, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
I question whether we really need to separately list any non-fundamental forces to begin with. Can't force cover them all? Cobblet ( talk) 23:05, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
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Pretty vital and universal tool, we include the other tools like saw hammer screw driver, etc. We also include lists of other related objects like musical instruments, some of which may be slightly less vital. Files have been used throughout history apparently since bronze age times, and continue to be used up into modern times today, and all over the world in woodworking and metalworking and other industries. They are more used more and seem more vital than some other tools we include like worm drive and machete and at least as important as others like pitchfork and hoe (tool) etc. Carl wev 18:18, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
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One of the most iconic parts of armor in general, a piece of equipment with a long history in military, but also vital for construction, mining, law enforcement and sports. Definitely a crucial article and I was surprised to see it was not yet on the list~
Are you aware we have combat helmet already in technology along with some other personal types of armour. Perhaps helmet itself would be better, we should discus? at first glance it would seem to be better. Helmet seems wider as it would obviously cover military helmets along with several sports types, work/industry related safety helmets, police/security etc and more, whereas combat helmet only the military kind. The regular helmet article is in 56 languages which is more than triple the 17 languages the combat helmet article appears in; it appears people around the world write the regular helmet article before the specific combat one. Carl wev 19:04, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
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I think Helmet proposed above is better. Although combat helmet is probably the most important type of helmet, I think the Helmet article is broader and covers the combat type anyway and is probably more common search term, even for those looking for specifically combat helmets. See above for more discussion also. Carl wev 14:39, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
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A crucial term in statistics, yet the list still does not contain this article.
I feel that this is redundant to statistical hypothesis testing. Edging towards oppose. Gizza ( t)( c) 02:16, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
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Father of the Japanese short story, he is regarded as one of the greatest and most influential modern Japanese writers. He also names Japan's greatest literary prize. Jucchan ( talk) 23:21, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
Support
Oppose
Discussion
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It's a travesty that Tang dynasty literature is represented only by Li Bai and Du Fu: that's like saying Shakespeare and Cervantes are the only vital Renaissance writers. Han Yu was one of the greatest masters of Chinese prose (he heads the Eight great prose masters of the Tang and Song, and the other three people I'm nominating are also part of that group – yes, the Chinese love making lists too) and a notable poet as well. He was responsible for liberating Chinese prose from the mannerisms in vogue at the time, and for restoring Confucianism to the forefront of Chinese intellectual thought. Wang Wei's pastoral, Chan-inspired poetry is one of China's greatest literary achievements; he's also credited with founding the Southern School of Chinese painting, though none of his work survives except in copies made by his contemporaries.
@ Maunus:: To support the additions of Teresa Teng and Hua Mulan but not figures like these is the equivalent of saying we should list Elvis and Paul Bunyan (and we don't actually list the latter) but not Walt Whitman or Thoreau. Our coverage of Chinese culture is grossly distorted by the omission of such influential people. I'm not asking that we list the Chinese equivalent of every single Western author on the list; only that we fill such basic gaps that anyone with even the slightest interest in Chinese literature would immediately notice. Han Yu's impact on Chinese literature has been compared to Shakespeare, Dante or Goethe's role in Western literature, as the article points out. And the translations of Ezra Pound and Das Lied von der Erde should put to rest the notion that Wang Wei's poetry isn't significant outside China. I can point to most parts of the list, e.g. the mathematicians or athletes, and say that these people aren't significant outside the realm of mathematics or sports; the fact is we continue to list many of them, because within those realms those people are extraordinarily significant. Cobblet ( talk) 20:55, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
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Equally astounding is the almost complete absence of cultural figures from the Song dynasty, another golden age in Chinese history. Su Shi and Ouyang Xiu would be called Renaissance men if such a term existed in the Chinese language, and I won't exhaust you by describing the multifaceted accomplishments of each; suffice it to say that they are considered the most outstanding personalities of their time.
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The one who brought literary realism to Brazil, Machado de Assis is the first president of Brazilian Academy of Letters, and is considered by the critic the most important author of Brazilian's history. Gabriel Yuji ( talk) 23:09, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
Literary realism might be vital instead. -- Melody Lavender 07:54, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
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Fetisov was an ice hockey defenceman most notable for captaining the spectacularly dominant Soviet teams of the 1980s. The players on those teams certainly possessed great individual skill but were most noted for their play as a team, so it's hard to say whether he's the greatest defenceman ever – Bobby Orr also has a strong claim on that title. With the list of athletes much reduced, I see little reason to keep four hockey players, and Fetisov has the weakest case. Vladislav Tretiak remains on the list so that Russian hockey from that era is still represented.
User:Maunus has often complained about the lack of non-American folk musicians. Britannica summarizes Vysotsky's importance better than I can: "Russian actor, poet, songwriter, and performer who was considered 'the voice of the heart of a nation.' His wide-ranging and forthright poems were considered subversive by the Soviet authorities and were barred from publication, but they were the cultural lifeblood for many Russians. Vysotsky was an immensely popular figure who continued to be revered, read, and listened to long after his death." In a TV show seeking the most notable personalities in Russian history, only two musicians appeared on a shortlist of 50: Tchaikovsky and Vysotsky. (In case you're wondering, the only athlete on the same shortlist was Lev Yashin – we've got him on our list as well.) There's another Russian singer on our list ( Alla Pugacheva) but I'm pretty sure Vysotsky is at least as vital.
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We removed Mariah Carey recently, and don't list people like Whitney Houston and Celine Dion, which made me wonder whether we really need anybody other than Elton John to represent the pop ballad genre.
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If we had room for twenty conductors, maybe Solti would make it. As it stands the list is simply too short for him. There are people like Jean-Baptiste Lully and Carl Maria von Weber who made pioneering contributions to the Western musical performance tradition and were also influential composers, who aren't listed.
@ Melody Lavender:: I'm sorry, where exactly on that page does it state that the BBC considers him the fifth greatest conductor? I see no ranked list anywhere on that page, only an unranked list of names arbitrarily chosen for the purposes of an informal online poll – I say arbitrarily, for there is no explanation of how the names were picked. As you may gather from the comments on that page, the public was not entirely satisfied with their choices.
The only list I know of that isn't entirely based on the opinion of one person and is the closest thing to an RS on this subject is the list compiled by BBC Music Magazine in 2010, which "asked 100 leading conductors to name the maestros they admire above all others." In the resulting ranked list of twenty names, Solti is... not there. Of course, they didn't say who exactly these leading conductors were, and you may believe that you and the rest of the people reading this talk page are better arbiters of taste in classical music than any of them. Which is why I said Solti might make it if we listed twenty conductors. Cobblet ( talk) 07:07, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
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We don't need seven people to represent Broadway theatre and I think he's the weakest of the bunch.
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He is considered by some to be the founder of modern public relations. The term Public Relations is to be found for the first time in the preface of the 1897 Yearbook of Railway Literature.
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He was a British historian, writer, socialist and peace campaigner. He is probably best known today for his historical work on the British radical movements in the late 18th and early 19th centuries, in particular The Making of the English Working Class (1963). He also published influential biographies of William Morris(1955) and (posthumously) William Blake (1993) and was a prolific journalist and essayist. He also published the novel The Sykaos Papers and a collection of poetry.
Thompson was one of the principal intellectuals of the Communist Party in Great Britain. Although he left the party in 1956 over the Soviet invasion of Hungary, he nevertheless remained a "historian in the Marxist tradition", calling for a rebellion against Stalinism as a prerequisite for the restoration of communists' "confidence in our own revolutionary perspectives". Thompson played a key role in the first New Left in Britain in the late 1950s. He was a vociferous left-wing socialist critic of the Labour governments of 1964–70 and 1974–79, and an early and constant supporter of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, becoming during the 1980s the leading intellectual light of the movement against nuclear weapons in Europe.
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Muhammad ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab was an Najdi Islamic scholar who was considered a heretic by the leading Sunni Muslim scholars of his time, as well as his brother; Sulayman ibn `Abd al-Wahhab who issued a Fatwa against him titled: "Fasl al-Khitab min Kitab Allah wa-Hadith al-Rasul wa-Kalam Uli al-Albab fi Madhhab Ibni `Abd al-Wahhab" declaring him as a heretic. Opponents of this movement coined the term "wahabi" or "wahabism", though neither Muhammad ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab nor any of the movement's participants referred to themselves as such.
His pact with Muhammad bin Saud helped to establish the first Saudi state and began a dynastic alliance and power-sharing arrangement between their families which continues to the present day in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The descendants of Ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab, the Al ash-Sheikh, have historically led the ulama in the Saudi state, dominating the state's clerical institutions.
What Gizza meant was that those two people are already in the list, and that al-Wahhab is more vital than those two. Feel free to suggest Baker Eddy for removal if you don't feel he belongs to the list. ~ Maplestrip ( chat) 20:04, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
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There are no indigenous people of the Americas who lived before the 15th century on the list. Lord 8 Deer was one of the great Mesoamerican rulers who united the various Mixtec peoples for the first time. Like Sundiata Keita (see below), his life story has been transformed into an epic and has been accorded legendary status among the Mixtecos.
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It's a bit premature to be considering folks like Richard Doll when the people who made fundamental contributions to the study of medicine aren't even on the list yet.
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I'm not sure on which subtopic of "History" it should be included but isn't it as relevant as samurai (already listed under "Post-classical history")? Gabriel Yuji ( talk) 14:07, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
I believe we have Samurai I would imagine ninja and samurai being close to each other in the list as the practice/discipline of both overlapped in area and time. Carl wev 16:09, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
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I suggest a swap of two uninhabited archipelagos in the Russian Arctic for two island chains in Northeast Asia that are more geographically and culturally significant. The Kuril Islands are significant as an area of seismic and volcanic activity, as part of the Ainu homeland and for being politically disputed between Russia and Japan. I would consider them just as important as the Aleutian Islands which are already listed. The Ryukyu Islands (of which Okinawa is the best known) form a Japanese region with its own notable culture and history.
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It is no less important than Dnipropetrovsk or Donetsk, 8th largest city of Ukraine, 650 000 pop, steel, mining industry, largest economy.
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Ukraine is overrepresented with 6 cities. In comparison we dont even have the capitals of each of the Nordic countries (Missing Reykjavik, Tórshavn and Nuuk). France has 7 cities and Uk and Ireland has only 9. We have a single Greek city, a single Portuguese city. I really see no justification for this kind of overrepresentation of Ukraine. Dnipropetrovsk and Donetsk are clearly the least vital on the list of Ukrainian cities. I think we should cut more than two, but lets start with those. I propose them separately.
On the contrary it is absurd to measure the importance of cities only in their quantitative traits such as population or economy. There is no justification possible for suggetsing that Ukraine deserves 3 times as much representation as Greece and Portugal combined. That my friend is absurd. Vitality comes from cultural, political and social impact more than from its population or industrial impact. And Dnipropetrovsk will never be even half as vital as Porto, Thessaloniki, Piraeus, Reykjavik, or Gothenburg. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 22:03, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
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Ukraine is overrepresented with 6 cities. In comparison we dont even have the capitals of each of the Nordic countries (Missing Reykjavik, Tórshavn and Nuuk). France has 7 cities and Uk and Ireland has only 9. We have a single Greek city, a single Portuguese city. I really see no justification for this kind of overrepresentation of Ukraine. Dnipropetrovsk and Donetsk are clearly the least vital on the list of Ukrainian cities. I think we should cut more than two, but lets start with those. I propose them separately.
Looking at cities there is really a lot of arbitrariness regarding inclusion. Why does the US have 26 cities while Canada, UK and Ireland has 13 (the english speaking wikipedia argument doesnt work here at least). And why does China have 33 and India 36? Why does Iran have 8 and Turkey 9, and Mexico 10, while Greece has 1 and South Africa 5 and Brazil 14? I cant see any good arguments for these random allotments of space. Is it because there is a population cut off? (that would be a bad way to determine vitality). Is it relative to the population of the country/region? (woudl make some sense but doesnt explain why China has less than India) We ned to do some thinking about how to organize this. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 18:19, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
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Another vital literature topic is Monomyth - I wanted to nominate Adventure first, in keeping with this project's established ways to have the articles listed that correspond to WP:COMMONNAME and are more everyday-life-like and easily accessible to the average reader without being too scientific. But the pageview statistics clearly show that I was wrong: Monomyth is viewed twice as often as adventure. -- Melody Lavender ( talk) 08:40, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
I agree universal grammar is at least equally vital, if not more so. The article doesn't really portray what this is about. It's usually called the hero's journey and it is basic pattern that occurs everywhere, when you turn on the TV, in video games, and in any literature from millenia back to this day and age. Even though the non vital person you're mentioning coined the term, the pattern exists for much longer than that. Putting this under the heading "a smaller field of comparative mythology" doesn't quite portray it's meaning in literary theory, it's a basic topic in literature. -- Melody Lavender 17:03, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
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We are over the quota in the music section so we need to make some cuts. This doesnt strike me as a vital percussion instrument.
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We are over the quota in the music section so we need to make some cuts. I consider this redundant with Singing which we have.
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The Beatles and their individual careers are overrepresented with The Beatles, Sgt. Pepper, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Imagine and this all listed. No other modern musician has more than 2 articles.
I said that I'd support the removal of McCartney and Lennon because we already include The Beatles. Though they both have their own career (Lennon's post-Beatles career being covered by Imagine), they are definitely best known for their part in the Beatles. I'm not too fond of getting rid of modern music, though I think artists/bands are probably better to cover than specific works most of the time. (I can't get no) Satisfaction, for example, seems redundant when you have the Stones themselves. On the other hand, Rumours (album) honestly seems more vital than Fleetwood Mac, and Sgt Peppers really isn't redundant with the Beatles themselves. ~ Maplestrip ( chat) 18:58, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
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This would cover all of the constellations that I have proposed to remove here. The article would also cover the signs of the Chinese Zodiac, which is unrepresented ( Astrology doesn't list symbols or meanings). Jucchan ( talk) 00:20, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
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Arjuna and Rama are the protagonists of the two major cycles of Hindu mythology both of which are already listed. I think the protagonists are redundant with the texts. If we remove Hindu mythology from the mythology section then I think it would make sense to remove the entire section and instead add the two texts to the Religion section in order to consolidate.
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These creatures are cryptids, as well as the Yeti and Man-eating plant. Cryptids are also timeless; a new cryptid like Bigfoot might be suggested sometime in the future. As discussed above, really. Cryptozoology is also an option, though this wouldn't include the small cryptobotany.
I undid my support due to Gizza's examples. I don't entirely oppose to the switch, just don't have a solid stance on it anymore. Maplestrip ( talk) 08:46, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
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These topics have very little to talk about and it is questionalbe if they have a place in Wikipedia at all, but could rather use a Wiktionary definition. Regardless, they are topics that are hardly vital for an encyclopedia, as there is little to explain about them. Daughter and son are currently covered under child (as its second definition) and uncle and aunt are a very similar concept with different genders - the difference in gender is hardly vital. I do suggest to keep cousin, as there is more than enough encyclopedic material to explain for that topic.
I was thinking that daughter and son may have been vital. The difference in gender between children does indeed make a difference to their lives. Many if not all cultures treat their songs and daughters differently and each face different issues ( rites of passage, male circumcision vs female circumcision, female infanticide, dowry). But boy and girl are listed so they should cover it.
About 7 months ago, I proposed that uncle and aunt be merged together primarily on the basis that if brother and sister redirect to sibling and grandmother and grandfather redirect to grandparent, then a fortiori uncle and aunt should be merged. It didn't really go anywhere and the alternative of splitting sibling into brother and sister hasn't occurred, so the inconsistency remains. Gizza ( t)( c) 01:59, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
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The kinship section is too focused on the institutions of Western kinship. We need to add more kinship forms from the anthropological literature. A crucial factor in determining kinship in many languages. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:20, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
Lineage (anthropology) is currently a redirect to kinship.-- Melody Lavender 21:45, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
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Per above discussion. Fermentation would likely go in biochemistry and food processing in tech.
I don't think I can support adding food processing – it seems there isn't much to connect the variety of topics this article could potentially encompass. For example, I think I'd rather support adding something like convenience food by itself, while something like food packaging ought to be subsumed by packaging and labelling, which is something else we could add. Cobblet ( talk) 08:20, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
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The difference in age in sexual relationships has always been important to people, particularly when the difference is deemed to great.
Not keen on this but some of the other mentioned articles may have a chance, like anal sex, promiscuity, sexual abuse, asexuality. Some we already have, like pedophilia, (in medicine, mental illness) Contraception (redirects to the included birth control), dating, safe sex, maybe more?. Also maybe we should put family/relationships and sexuality together or at least next to each other, as romance, dating, courtship, and similar articles could be included in either section...and shouldn't childbirth be with pregnancy rather than with relationships, it's clearly more a medical/biology topic. Finally age related articles that have crossed my mind before are Life expectancy and Gerontology. Carl wev 16:41, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
Pedophilia is probably a better addition. PointsofNoReturn ( talk) 02:18, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
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The Rubik's cube is not the most significant invention of the 20th century (though still way more important than the Sudoku), despite its huge popularity. Everyone has seen such a cube once in their life, most usually not having a clue how to solve it. The reason I suggest it is, however, because of its encyclopedic value. It is hard to explain the inner workings of the Rubik's cube, despite its... simplicity? It seems the job of an encyclopedia to explain this odd toy. Besides that, the Rubik's cube has a history to it, it's own move notation, competitions and different variations. It's simply the perfect subject of an encyclopedic article, not just vital for its notability alone. (Also, high importance in WikiProject Toys and Invention)
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A typical beginners' economics textbook first covers microeconomics, then industrial organization, then macroeconomics, and finally international economics, therefore industrial organization and international economics are not less vital than microeconomics and macroeconomics.
The topics taught within industrial economics also comes under microeconomics. Likewise, international economics is a part of macroeconomics. There are international and industrial economic concepts that are definitely vital. Some of them are already listed. Not sure about adding more subbranches though. I think macro, micro and econometrics is sufficient. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:23, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
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Sinterklaas is the biggest holiday in the Netherlands, and is almost unique to the country. The only holiday that seems to come close to its importance in my country is Easter. There's quite a culture build around it, and there's even the controversy that is happening lately around Zwarte Piet. The character of Sinterklaas is even the basis of Santa Claus.
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The two basic parts or sounds of speech, obviously present in every single spoken language that has ever been, so are not not specific to a single language or group of languages. The different vowel and consonant noises that exist within different languages are often studied by those studying a single language or languages in general, I believe it to be of interest to the common reader as well as experts too. The articles cover the range of noises used by different languages throughout the world in many languages. The articles are both present in over 90 languages, so it appears to of interest to people world wide. I have put these in one post, which I don't normally do, as I would have thought, you can't really have one without the other, it's either both of neither. Carl wev 14:18, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
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Another topic pretty universal to all languages. The smallest grammatical unit of a language or the smallest meaningful unit of a language. If we are listing several main, basic or universal language topics this one should probably be one of them, an encyclopedia would benefit by having a well written article on this. Has been mentioned several times, a few people have said they like it but it's not been proposed yet. Article appears in over 70 languages on Wikipedia. Carl wev 14:18, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
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Couldn't decide between this and morpheme itself, we could have one or both; I thought I would open them both, see what happen. Both are significant and well represented, this article appears on even more different language wikipedias at about 85, covers similar ground to morpheme itself. Carl wev 14:49, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
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Would you support adding Japanese writing system instead of the ones discussed above?
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It reflects the problems today's American children face, and it is no less crucial than The Simpsons.
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If we don't consider Walmart vital, Amazon.com shouldn't remain listed—surely Walmart has been more influential in the history of retail! Amazon isn't even the largest e-commerce company in gross merchandise volume (that would be Alibaba Group). Amazon's founder, Jeff Bezos, isn't vital either; within American businessmen, Thomas J. Watson, Alfred P. Sloan, and Henry Luce are more important than him. Malerisch ( talk) 11:37, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
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Perhaps redundant to Monarchy, as it is basically the one who reigns on a monarchy(?). Gabriel Yuji ( talk) 01:24, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
Somewhat neutral on this one, as the redundancy is clear, but "king"/"queen" is particularly interesting for an encyclopedia on its own. I think that's probably the reason it was added to the list in the first place. ~ Maplestrip ( chat) 13:21, 3 December 2014 (UTC) (signed later)
Any argument would be fine, RekishiEJ... Gabriel Yuji ( talk) 05:44, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
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A definitely crucial topic.
I think it's fair to have both race/racism and sex/sexism at this level, but with regards to the other groups and form of discrimination, one article is enough. In this case ageing ought to cover the biological and social aspects of ageing, of which discrimination is one part. Similarly with disability/ableism, various LGBT/heterosexism or homophobia, etc. Gizza ( t)( c) 02:36, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
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A definitely crucial topic.
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A definitely crucial topic. Some countries have banned employment discrimination based on religion.
#Oppose because it affects only a smaller part of society. --
Melody
Lavender 19:36, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
I do think this article has a pretty strong case, but we don't need to to make all major kinds of discrimination vital, as they are all similar to discrimination itself - with the exception of sexism - and racism being too vital on its own to leave out. ~ Maplestrip ( chat) 09:42, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
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A definitely crucial topic. Some countries like the U.S. have banned employment discrimination based on religion.
Freedom of religion is in fact listed under religion. Cobblet ( talk) 22:06, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
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A definitely crucial topic. Many countries have prohibited some or all types of employment discrimination.
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As discussed here, these constellations contain no vital objects, and are therefore redundant with Zodiac. I have proposed adding Astrological sign to cover these constellations, along with Zodiac and Astrology. Jucchan ( talk) 00:19, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
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As superconductivity is a state of matter in which the matter behaves like a conductor with zero resistance. It is currently placed in Electromagnetism section. Though it can be placed there, but more appropriate place for it to be in Condensed matter section under States of matter subsection. Please discuss. Logical1004 ( talk) 19:46, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
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As suggested by Sarr Cat: GMOs are used for many purposes, like in agriculture, medical research, creation of novel pets like the Glofish. Important topic area that goes beyond nutrition. Ethically controversial and has huge potential and impact. The article is at an unbelievable 4042nd position in Wikipedia's article view ranking. -- Melody Lavender 08:18, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
What about cloning? Cobblet ( talk) 09:29, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
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As suggested by Sarr Cat: Multiplication of a DNA sequence, a common and important biotech procedure. Ranks 3643 in Wikipedia article view statistics. This is a must have for the list. -- Melody Lavender 08:18, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
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Was mentioned above in Genetically modified organism. Besides the really interesting scientific advances, this topic also covers a rich history of science-fiction and a complicated topic in ethics.
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How vital is the concept of humans colonizing extraterrestrial environments? It seems a rather important aspect of human interest. It basically lists the reasons of why this subject is important in the article itself. The colonization of Mars, the Moon and the Earth's orbit would obviously fall under this article. Not even mentioning the topic's importance in science-fiction.
Oh, by the way, is Extraterrestrial life on the list yet? I haven't been able to find it.
I think I'd support this, I consider it very important very likely to come in our future history at some point. We include tech articles about the very beginnings that actually exist like space station, ISS, shuttle, rocket, satellite and also space flight and space exploration (both also lev3), Extra terrestrial life is included under astronomy basics, here, it's placement has been discussed before and may come up again.
I imagine the counter argument that could be used may be, space colonization doesn't actually exist yet unless you count our space stations, and we shouldn't include predicted but not actually here yet things, we're not a crystal ball, things that don't exist can't be vital (although? fiction, mythology, religion is OK) etc etc. Wormhole came up in discussion and was thought probably shouldn't have it as it's too much in it's infancy and huge uncertainty as a practical topic. Although space colonization is possible just not done yet, (I wouldn't think anyone thinks it physically impossible like they could with wormhole,) cut short, I think I'd still have space colonization though.
Also we list astrobiology and extra terrestrial life, which have also not been observed, but presumably does/could exist in most peoples minds, so I don't see the problem including space colonization, and don't think the posible counter argument I am imagining would be a substantial reason to leave it off. Also I think this article would be better than many space articles we have like lists of stars, which I don't mind, but I think space colonization may be a bit more important, and I can imagine seeing it in print encyclopedias that cover such topics. Carl wev 17:10, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
Also although we list several cases of colonization we don't actually have colonization itself, should we have that? Carl wev 17:10, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
So then it would be Literature>Basic concepts of literature>Fiction>Science fiction>Time travel? It's an odd placement, but it might be the only place to put it... I mean, if it passes after being suggested, of course. Maplestrip ( talk) 20:49, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
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This article is crucial, however the expanded list does not have it.
I'll wait for some rationale as to why this article should or shouldn't be vital as well. The concept of a graph is definitely important, but I'm simply not entirely sure of it yet. Maplestrip ( talk) 19:52, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
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The first Nobel Laureate in Literature of Chinese citizenship, he is one of the most famous Chinese writers. Jucchan ( talk) 23:21, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
There are several titans of classical Chinese literature who are not listed; Mo Yan doesn't hold a candle to Su Shi or Wang Wei or Han Yu. Is there interest in adding such figures? Cobblet ( talk) 02:13, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
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Article about one of the most significant regions history for a half a millennium time period in the Iron Age, many Greek Myths are based in this real time period but we seem more focused in included many Greek myth characters and Gods, in addition to many real Greek people like writers philosophers and some leaders and artists too but have left off an article about the whole regions historical period lasting for 500 years. It's a very decent article and much written about and studied among people and books that cover ancient European history. We have too much Greek myth possibly but have left off some of it's most significant real history of the same era. Carl wev 20:21, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
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I think the cultural concept of the Australian interior is more significant than any specific physiographic province located within it.
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Surely the world's largest aquifer is a more notable feature of Australia's physical geography than one of its remote and sparsely populated peninsulas.
Speaking of Northeast Australia, Torres Strait could be swapped with Torres Strait Islands. The Strait is somewhat notable for its marine ecosystem and as a route for illegal immigration but not much. The Torres Strait Islands are home to Australia's second indigenous group, the Torres Strait Islanders who are distinct from Aboriginal Australians. Their culture and lifestyle is a fusion of Papuan, Aboriginal and Austronesian elements. Torres Strait Islanders developed agriculture unlike Aboriginal Australians who were purely hunter-gatherers. It is the TSI's who actually achieved indigenous land rights reform in Australia via Eddie Mabo who used the sedentary culture of the islands in his argument to overturn terra nullius. Gizza ( t)( c) 03:29, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
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Each of the Greater Sundas (Sumatra, Borneo, Java, Sulawesi) is already listed. I suggest adding the largest political entity in Oceania, which contains world-famous islands like Tahiti and Bora Bora.
The Lesser Sunda Islands, which are also listed, seem to be of around equal importance to the Greater Sunda Islands. Shouldn't they both be listed or both be removed? Sunda Islands is also an option, and it's the term that Britannica uses for this group of islands. Malerisch ( talk) 02:31, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
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Uninhabited islands in the Canadian Arctic. I think listing the world's two largest uninhabited islands ( Devon Island and Alexander Island) is reasonable but sufficient.
It does seem odd we have discussed to include or not, cities, regions, islands etc with population, history, culture and some significance while articles such as these remain. I guess our geography purge kind of skipped over islands and a lot of physical geography in general. Carl wev 13:33, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
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I think this is a vital encyclopedic topic. It may not have opted for independence like British and Dutch Guiana did, but I don't think its status as a French possession makes it less vital. If Corsica is vital, how is French Guiana, with a similar population and an even more distinct culture, not vital?
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Réunion and Mauritius are the two notable parts of this group of islands in the Indian Ocean. Réunion is the most populous entity on the list of countries by population that we do not include as vital. Again, if Corsica is vital, how is Réunion not?
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It is the archipelago (which forms a political and physiographic unit) that is vital as a whole, not its largest island.
#Oppose it's the only inhabited island in the archipelago and is historically important. --
Melody
Lavender 10:40, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
How does one check which of the two has more pageviews? The two articles seem almost equally important and somewhat similar in content. Svalbard is more popular with the WikiProjects, though. Maplestrip ( talk) 10:52, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
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I'm aware that this isn't the same thing as Scandinavia but they're so close that essentially a discussion of the Scandinavian Peninsula would be largely identical to one on the geography of Scandinavia. Surely this is a topic that can be covered by the latter article.
Don't The Americas have a similar problem? -Maplestrip (forgot signing, sorry)
I think, it was me who added Scandinavia over a year ago, not sure why the peninsula article was added first/instead. It took me ages to get Korea added then the Korean peninsula article removed, which people agreed with eventually for very similar rational as this thread. Carl wev 12:25, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
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Not all art is done by hauty-taughty professional artists. This article could potentially note working-class art from around the world. p b p 21:00, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Folk dance is another option. Folk music is already listed. Gizza ( t)( c) 00:06, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
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Of the 31 literary characters, the "easternmost" figure is Aladdin, demonstrating how skewed the list is. Hua Mulan's story stretches back 1500 years and is the best literary character to add from China. Her story is one of the best known in the world that explores gender roles in society. Way more vital than Wonder Woman. This will improve coverage of female characters as well, which are as expected a tiny minority currently (3.5 of the 31).
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The coverage of superheroes is outsized in comparison to other categories of fictional characters. We've removed far more significant and longer-lasting fictional characters from the list. I would say that Hulk is considerably less significant than Wonder Woman, and Wonder Woman's on the block right now. Marvel is not as long-lasting as its parent Disney or its competitor DC, so I'm not seeing a pervasive need for multiple Marvel heroes on this list. p b p 15:58, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
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Same rational as I explained above. We have Homer, Iliad, Achilles, Agamemnon, Odyssey, and Odysseus, (plus Troy and Trojan War in History too). Achilles is quite iconic but I have long thought Agamemnon is unnecessary. Greek mythology is quite well represented and some have said maybe too well, even so he's not really that important really is he? Even within Greek mythology characters/creatures like Medusa and Minotaur would be more vital I would have thought. There are real leaders we are leaving off to include this mythical one. We have removed Greek Gods that seem more vital. The Iliad has many characters some that also appear in other stories, there is Priam, Hector, Paris (mythology), Menelaus. Achilles has an argument for inclusion but I don't see why Agamemnon is that much more important than those other characters. Carl wev 18:34, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
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Arjuna and Rama are the protagonists of the two major cycles of hindu mythology. If we remove Hindu mythology from the mythology section then I think it would make sense to remove the entire section and instead add the two texts to the Religion section in order to consolidate. We already have Ramayana but not Mahabharata.
The Marabharata is already listed under Literature; in fact it's also on level 3. Cobblet ( talk) 06:34, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
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This is redundant with marriage which should clearly describe both religious and civil marriage. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:12, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
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Why do we have iced tea when we don't have iced coffee and chocolate milk? It's not even the second tea-related article to have after tea itself. Black tea or green tea would be. Not vital.
I also noticed that fermentation in food processing is included while fermentation (with a focus on biochemistry) is not. I wonder if they should be swapped. Gizza ( t)( c) 12:29, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
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Dish seems redundant with Meal, both are on level 4 and we have individual meals like lunch, breakfast, dinner, and individual dishes like entrée, main course, and dessert. Dish is more like a wiktionary definition. -- Melody Lavender 07:33, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
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Never done one of these before, so please be forgiving if I've formatted this wrong. With that out of the way, this is a game I've never heard of, that doesn't appear to have stood the test of time (unlike, say, Chess or Mancala) but instead has to cite a few examples of appearances in modern media to show notability. Tezero ( talk) 21:17, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Senet may have been the predecessor to backgammon. Other historical board games like Chaturanga, the predecessor to chess, are listed but chess as a whole is more significant than backgammon. I support adding Mesoamerican ballgame, Ancient Olympics and mob football and possibly some of gladiator, sepak takraw, kabaddi and calcio fiorentino. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:36, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
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We are lacking animated series, and besides The Simpsons, what is the most well-known and influential cartoon? That might just be Tom and Jerry.
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Basic human right that we take for granted but has been fought for throughout history. Important for democracy, voting, and other processes in politics. -- Melody Lavender 09:33, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
Just to let you know, freedom of speech and freedom of religion were proposed a year ago and failed here. Consensus may be different now but I'm still concerned that adding one freedom can result in adding a couple dozen more. Gizza ( t)( c) 01:30, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
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Since Massage recently failed here, I'm proposing the overaching article now. It includes massage and therapeutic gymnastics and similar and is popular with patients because it is a non-invasive treatment, no pills or surgery involved. The therapist just tells them how to move to increase or maintain mobility, for instance. -- Melody Lavender 05:59, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Massage didn't technically fail. There was no consensus to add it. After all, nobody opposed it. Gizza ( t)( c) 23:33, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
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A frequently heard disease, however the list does not contain this article.
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The force exerted on an object by a surface that prevents the object from going through the surface. Makes sense to add since we list most other forces that would fall in the same category in terms of how fundamental they are such as Tension (physics) and Drag (physics). Jucchan ( talk) 23:44, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
I question whether we really need to separately list any non-fundamental forces to begin with. Can't force cover them all? Cobblet ( talk) 23:05, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
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Pretty vital and universal tool, we include the other tools like saw hammer screw driver, etc. We also include lists of other related objects like musical instruments, some of which may be slightly less vital. Files have been used throughout history apparently since bronze age times, and continue to be used up into modern times today, and all over the world in woodworking and metalworking and other industries. They are more used more and seem more vital than some other tools we include like worm drive and machete and at least as important as others like pitchfork and hoe (tool) etc. Carl wev 18:18, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
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One of the most iconic parts of armor in general, a piece of equipment with a long history in military, but also vital for construction, mining, law enforcement and sports. Definitely a crucial article and I was surprised to see it was not yet on the list~
Are you aware we have combat helmet already in technology along with some other personal types of armour. Perhaps helmet itself would be better, we should discus? at first glance it would seem to be better. Helmet seems wider as it would obviously cover military helmets along with several sports types, work/industry related safety helmets, police/security etc and more, whereas combat helmet only the military kind. The regular helmet article is in 56 languages which is more than triple the 17 languages the combat helmet article appears in; it appears people around the world write the regular helmet article before the specific combat one. Carl wev 19:04, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
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I think Helmet proposed above is better. Although combat helmet is probably the most important type of helmet, I think the Helmet article is broader and covers the combat type anyway and is probably more common search term, even for those looking for specifically combat helmets. See above for more discussion also. Carl wev 14:39, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
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A crucial term in statistics, yet the list still does not contain this article.
I feel that this is redundant to statistical hypothesis testing. Edging towards oppose. Gizza ( t)( c) 02:16, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
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Father of the Japanese short story, he is regarded as one of the greatest and most influential modern Japanese writers. He also names Japan's greatest literary prize. Jucchan ( talk) 23:21, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
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It's a travesty that Tang dynasty literature is represented only by Li Bai and Du Fu: that's like saying Shakespeare and Cervantes are the only vital Renaissance writers. Han Yu was one of the greatest masters of Chinese prose (he heads the Eight great prose masters of the Tang and Song, and the other three people I'm nominating are also part of that group – yes, the Chinese love making lists too) and a notable poet as well. He was responsible for liberating Chinese prose from the mannerisms in vogue at the time, and for restoring Confucianism to the forefront of Chinese intellectual thought. Wang Wei's pastoral, Chan-inspired poetry is one of China's greatest literary achievements; he's also credited with founding the Southern School of Chinese painting, though none of his work survives except in copies made by his contemporaries.
@ Maunus:: To support the additions of Teresa Teng and Hua Mulan but not figures like these is the equivalent of saying we should list Elvis and Paul Bunyan (and we don't actually list the latter) but not Walt Whitman or Thoreau. Our coverage of Chinese culture is grossly distorted by the omission of such influential people. I'm not asking that we list the Chinese equivalent of every single Western author on the list; only that we fill such basic gaps that anyone with even the slightest interest in Chinese literature would immediately notice. Han Yu's impact on Chinese literature has been compared to Shakespeare, Dante or Goethe's role in Western literature, as the article points out. And the translations of Ezra Pound and Das Lied von der Erde should put to rest the notion that Wang Wei's poetry isn't significant outside China. I can point to most parts of the list, e.g. the mathematicians or athletes, and say that these people aren't significant outside the realm of mathematics or sports; the fact is we continue to list many of them, because within those realms those people are extraordinarily significant. Cobblet ( talk) 20:55, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
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Equally astounding is the almost complete absence of cultural figures from the Song dynasty, another golden age in Chinese history. Su Shi and Ouyang Xiu would be called Renaissance men if such a term existed in the Chinese language, and I won't exhaust you by describing the multifaceted accomplishments of each; suffice it to say that they are considered the most outstanding personalities of their time.
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The one who brought literary realism to Brazil, Machado de Assis is the first president of Brazilian Academy of Letters, and is considered by the critic the most important author of Brazilian's history. Gabriel Yuji ( talk) 23:09, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
Literary realism might be vital instead. -- Melody Lavender 07:54, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
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Fetisov was an ice hockey defenceman most notable for captaining the spectacularly dominant Soviet teams of the 1980s. The players on those teams certainly possessed great individual skill but were most noted for their play as a team, so it's hard to say whether he's the greatest defenceman ever – Bobby Orr also has a strong claim on that title. With the list of athletes much reduced, I see little reason to keep four hockey players, and Fetisov has the weakest case. Vladislav Tretiak remains on the list so that Russian hockey from that era is still represented.
User:Maunus has often complained about the lack of non-American folk musicians. Britannica summarizes Vysotsky's importance better than I can: "Russian actor, poet, songwriter, and performer who was considered 'the voice of the heart of a nation.' His wide-ranging and forthright poems were considered subversive by the Soviet authorities and were barred from publication, but they were the cultural lifeblood for many Russians. Vysotsky was an immensely popular figure who continued to be revered, read, and listened to long after his death." In a TV show seeking the most notable personalities in Russian history, only two musicians appeared on a shortlist of 50: Tchaikovsky and Vysotsky. (In case you're wondering, the only athlete on the same shortlist was Lev Yashin – we've got him on our list as well.) There's another Russian singer on our list ( Alla Pugacheva) but I'm pretty sure Vysotsky is at least as vital.
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We removed Mariah Carey recently, and don't list people like Whitney Houston and Celine Dion, which made me wonder whether we really need anybody other than Elton John to represent the pop ballad genre.
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If we had room for twenty conductors, maybe Solti would make it. As it stands the list is simply too short for him. There are people like Jean-Baptiste Lully and Carl Maria von Weber who made pioneering contributions to the Western musical performance tradition and were also influential composers, who aren't listed.
@ Melody Lavender:: I'm sorry, where exactly on that page does it state that the BBC considers him the fifth greatest conductor? I see no ranked list anywhere on that page, only an unranked list of names arbitrarily chosen for the purposes of an informal online poll – I say arbitrarily, for there is no explanation of how the names were picked. As you may gather from the comments on that page, the public was not entirely satisfied with their choices.
The only list I know of that isn't entirely based on the opinion of one person and is the closest thing to an RS on this subject is the list compiled by BBC Music Magazine in 2010, which "asked 100 leading conductors to name the maestros they admire above all others." In the resulting ranked list of twenty names, Solti is... not there. Of course, they didn't say who exactly these leading conductors were, and you may believe that you and the rest of the people reading this talk page are better arbiters of taste in classical music than any of them. Which is why I said Solti might make it if we listed twenty conductors. Cobblet ( talk) 07:07, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
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We don't need seven people to represent Broadway theatre and I think he's the weakest of the bunch.
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He is considered by some to be the founder of modern public relations. The term Public Relations is to be found for the first time in the preface of the 1897 Yearbook of Railway Literature.
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He was a British historian, writer, socialist and peace campaigner. He is probably best known today for his historical work on the British radical movements in the late 18th and early 19th centuries, in particular The Making of the English Working Class (1963). He also published influential biographies of William Morris(1955) and (posthumously) William Blake (1993) and was a prolific journalist and essayist. He also published the novel The Sykaos Papers and a collection of poetry.
Thompson was one of the principal intellectuals of the Communist Party in Great Britain. Although he left the party in 1956 over the Soviet invasion of Hungary, he nevertheless remained a "historian in the Marxist tradition", calling for a rebellion against Stalinism as a prerequisite for the restoration of communists' "confidence in our own revolutionary perspectives". Thompson played a key role in the first New Left in Britain in the late 1950s. He was a vociferous left-wing socialist critic of the Labour governments of 1964–70 and 1974–79, and an early and constant supporter of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, becoming during the 1980s the leading intellectual light of the movement against nuclear weapons in Europe.
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Muhammad ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab was an Najdi Islamic scholar who was considered a heretic by the leading Sunni Muslim scholars of his time, as well as his brother; Sulayman ibn `Abd al-Wahhab who issued a Fatwa against him titled: "Fasl al-Khitab min Kitab Allah wa-Hadith al-Rasul wa-Kalam Uli al-Albab fi Madhhab Ibni `Abd al-Wahhab" declaring him as a heretic. Opponents of this movement coined the term "wahabi" or "wahabism", though neither Muhammad ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab nor any of the movement's participants referred to themselves as such.
His pact with Muhammad bin Saud helped to establish the first Saudi state and began a dynastic alliance and power-sharing arrangement between their families which continues to the present day in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The descendants of Ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab, the Al ash-Sheikh, have historically led the ulama in the Saudi state, dominating the state's clerical institutions.
What Gizza meant was that those two people are already in the list, and that al-Wahhab is more vital than those two. Feel free to suggest Baker Eddy for removal if you don't feel he belongs to the list. ~ Maplestrip ( chat) 20:04, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
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There are no indigenous people of the Americas who lived before the 15th century on the list. Lord 8 Deer was one of the great Mesoamerican rulers who united the various Mixtec peoples for the first time. Like Sundiata Keita (see below), his life story has been transformed into an epic and has been accorded legendary status among the Mixtecos.
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It's a bit premature to be considering folks like Richard Doll when the people who made fundamental contributions to the study of medicine aren't even on the list yet.
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I'm not sure on which subtopic of "History" it should be included but isn't it as relevant as samurai (already listed under "Post-classical history")? Gabriel Yuji ( talk) 14:07, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
I believe we have Samurai I would imagine ninja and samurai being close to each other in the list as the practice/discipline of both overlapped in area and time. Carl wev 16:09, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
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I suggest a swap of two uninhabited archipelagos in the Russian Arctic for two island chains in Northeast Asia that are more geographically and culturally significant. The Kuril Islands are significant as an area of seismic and volcanic activity, as part of the Ainu homeland and for being politically disputed between Russia and Japan. I would consider them just as important as the Aleutian Islands which are already listed. The Ryukyu Islands (of which Okinawa is the best known) form a Japanese region with its own notable culture and history.
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It is no less important than Dnipropetrovsk or Donetsk, 8th largest city of Ukraine, 650 000 pop, steel, mining industry, largest economy.
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Ukraine is overrepresented with 6 cities. In comparison we dont even have the capitals of each of the Nordic countries (Missing Reykjavik, Tórshavn and Nuuk). France has 7 cities and Uk and Ireland has only 9. We have a single Greek city, a single Portuguese city. I really see no justification for this kind of overrepresentation of Ukraine. Dnipropetrovsk and Donetsk are clearly the least vital on the list of Ukrainian cities. I think we should cut more than two, but lets start with those. I propose them separately.
On the contrary it is absurd to measure the importance of cities only in their quantitative traits such as population or economy. There is no justification possible for suggetsing that Ukraine deserves 3 times as much representation as Greece and Portugal combined. That my friend is absurd. Vitality comes from cultural, political and social impact more than from its population or industrial impact. And Dnipropetrovsk will never be even half as vital as Porto, Thessaloniki, Piraeus, Reykjavik, or Gothenburg. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 22:03, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
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Ukraine is overrepresented with 6 cities. In comparison we dont even have the capitals of each of the Nordic countries (Missing Reykjavik, Tórshavn and Nuuk). France has 7 cities and Uk and Ireland has only 9. We have a single Greek city, a single Portuguese city. I really see no justification for this kind of overrepresentation of Ukraine. Dnipropetrovsk and Donetsk are clearly the least vital on the list of Ukrainian cities. I think we should cut more than two, but lets start with those. I propose them separately.
Looking at cities there is really a lot of arbitrariness regarding inclusion. Why does the US have 26 cities while Canada, UK and Ireland has 13 (the english speaking wikipedia argument doesnt work here at least). And why does China have 33 and India 36? Why does Iran have 8 and Turkey 9, and Mexico 10, while Greece has 1 and South Africa 5 and Brazil 14? I cant see any good arguments for these random allotments of space. Is it because there is a population cut off? (that would be a bad way to determine vitality). Is it relative to the population of the country/region? (woudl make some sense but doesnt explain why China has less than India) We ned to do some thinking about how to organize this. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 18:19, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
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Another vital literature topic is Monomyth - I wanted to nominate Adventure first, in keeping with this project's established ways to have the articles listed that correspond to WP:COMMONNAME and are more everyday-life-like and easily accessible to the average reader without being too scientific. But the pageview statistics clearly show that I was wrong: Monomyth is viewed twice as often as adventure. -- Melody Lavender ( talk) 08:40, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
I agree universal grammar is at least equally vital, if not more so. The article doesn't really portray what this is about. It's usually called the hero's journey and it is basic pattern that occurs everywhere, when you turn on the TV, in video games, and in any literature from millenia back to this day and age. Even though the non vital person you're mentioning coined the term, the pattern exists for much longer than that. Putting this under the heading "a smaller field of comparative mythology" doesn't quite portray it's meaning in literary theory, it's a basic topic in literature. -- Melody Lavender 17:03, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
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We are over the quota in the music section so we need to make some cuts. This doesnt strike me as a vital percussion instrument.
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We are over the quota in the music section so we need to make some cuts. I consider this redundant with Singing which we have.
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The Beatles and their individual careers are overrepresented with The Beatles, Sgt. Pepper, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Imagine and this all listed. No other modern musician has more than 2 articles.
I said that I'd support the removal of McCartney and Lennon because we already include The Beatles. Though they both have their own career (Lennon's post-Beatles career being covered by Imagine), they are definitely best known for their part in the Beatles. I'm not too fond of getting rid of modern music, though I think artists/bands are probably better to cover than specific works most of the time. (I can't get no) Satisfaction, for example, seems redundant when you have the Stones themselves. On the other hand, Rumours (album) honestly seems more vital than Fleetwood Mac, and Sgt Peppers really isn't redundant with the Beatles themselves. ~ Maplestrip ( chat) 18:58, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
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This would cover all of the constellations that I have proposed to remove here. The article would also cover the signs of the Chinese Zodiac, which is unrepresented ( Astrology doesn't list symbols or meanings). Jucchan ( talk) 00:20, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
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Arjuna and Rama are the protagonists of the two major cycles of Hindu mythology both of which are already listed. I think the protagonists are redundant with the texts. If we remove Hindu mythology from the mythology section then I think it would make sense to remove the entire section and instead add the two texts to the Religion section in order to consolidate.
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These creatures are cryptids, as well as the Yeti and Man-eating plant. Cryptids are also timeless; a new cryptid like Bigfoot might be suggested sometime in the future. As discussed above, really. Cryptozoology is also an option, though this wouldn't include the small cryptobotany.
I undid my support due to Gizza's examples. I don't entirely oppose to the switch, just don't have a solid stance on it anymore. Maplestrip ( talk) 08:46, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
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These topics have very little to talk about and it is questionalbe if they have a place in Wikipedia at all, but could rather use a Wiktionary definition. Regardless, they are topics that are hardly vital for an encyclopedia, as there is little to explain about them. Daughter and son are currently covered under child (as its second definition) and uncle and aunt are a very similar concept with different genders - the difference in gender is hardly vital. I do suggest to keep cousin, as there is more than enough encyclopedic material to explain for that topic.
I was thinking that daughter and son may have been vital. The difference in gender between children does indeed make a difference to their lives. Many if not all cultures treat their songs and daughters differently and each face different issues ( rites of passage, male circumcision vs female circumcision, female infanticide, dowry). But boy and girl are listed so they should cover it.
About 7 months ago, I proposed that uncle and aunt be merged together primarily on the basis that if brother and sister redirect to sibling and grandmother and grandfather redirect to grandparent, then a fortiori uncle and aunt should be merged. It didn't really go anywhere and the alternative of splitting sibling into brother and sister hasn't occurred, so the inconsistency remains. Gizza ( t)( c) 01:59, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
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The kinship section is too focused on the institutions of Western kinship. We need to add more kinship forms from the anthropological literature. A crucial factor in determining kinship in many languages. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:20, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
Lineage (anthropology) is currently a redirect to kinship.-- Melody Lavender 21:45, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
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Per above discussion. Fermentation would likely go in biochemistry and food processing in tech.
I don't think I can support adding food processing – it seems there isn't much to connect the variety of topics this article could potentially encompass. For example, I think I'd rather support adding something like convenience food by itself, while something like food packaging ought to be subsumed by packaging and labelling, which is something else we could add. Cobblet ( talk) 08:20, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
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The difference in age in sexual relationships has always been important to people, particularly when the difference is deemed to great.
Not keen on this but some of the other mentioned articles may have a chance, like anal sex, promiscuity, sexual abuse, asexuality. Some we already have, like pedophilia, (in medicine, mental illness) Contraception (redirects to the included birth control), dating, safe sex, maybe more?. Also maybe we should put family/relationships and sexuality together or at least next to each other, as romance, dating, courtship, and similar articles could be included in either section...and shouldn't childbirth be with pregnancy rather than with relationships, it's clearly more a medical/biology topic. Finally age related articles that have crossed my mind before are Life expectancy and Gerontology. Carl wev 16:41, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
Pedophilia is probably a better addition. PointsofNoReturn ( talk) 02:18, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
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The Rubik's cube is not the most significant invention of the 20th century (though still way more important than the Sudoku), despite its huge popularity. Everyone has seen such a cube once in their life, most usually not having a clue how to solve it. The reason I suggest it is, however, because of its encyclopedic value. It is hard to explain the inner workings of the Rubik's cube, despite its... simplicity? It seems the job of an encyclopedia to explain this odd toy. Besides that, the Rubik's cube has a history to it, it's own move notation, competitions and different variations. It's simply the perfect subject of an encyclopedic article, not just vital for its notability alone. (Also, high importance in WikiProject Toys and Invention)
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A typical beginners' economics textbook first covers microeconomics, then industrial organization, then macroeconomics, and finally international economics, therefore industrial organization and international economics are not less vital than microeconomics and macroeconomics.
The topics taught within industrial economics also comes under microeconomics. Likewise, international economics is a part of macroeconomics. There are international and industrial economic concepts that are definitely vital. Some of them are already listed. Not sure about adding more subbranches though. I think macro, micro and econometrics is sufficient. Gizza ( t)( c) 04:23, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
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Sinterklaas is the biggest holiday in the Netherlands, and is almost unique to the country. The only holiday that seems to come close to its importance in my country is Easter. There's quite a culture build around it, and there's even the controversy that is happening lately around Zwarte Piet. The character of Sinterklaas is even the basis of Santa Claus.
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The two basic parts or sounds of speech, obviously present in every single spoken language that has ever been, so are not not specific to a single language or group of languages. The different vowel and consonant noises that exist within different languages are often studied by those studying a single language or languages in general, I believe it to be of interest to the common reader as well as experts too. The articles cover the range of noises used by different languages throughout the world in many languages. The articles are both present in over 90 languages, so it appears to of interest to people world wide. I have put these in one post, which I don't normally do, as I would have thought, you can't really have one without the other, it's either both of neither. Carl wev 14:18, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
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Another topic pretty universal to all languages. The smallest grammatical unit of a language or the smallest meaningful unit of a language. If we are listing several main, basic or universal language topics this one should probably be one of them, an encyclopedia would benefit by having a well written article on this. Has been mentioned several times, a few people have said they like it but it's not been proposed yet. Article appears in over 70 languages on Wikipedia. Carl wev 14:18, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
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Couldn't decide between this and morpheme itself, we could have one or both; I thought I would open them both, see what happen. Both are significant and well represented, this article appears on even more different language wikipedias at about 85, covers similar ground to morpheme itself. Carl wev 14:49, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
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Would you support adding Japanese writing system instead of the ones discussed above?
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It reflects the problems today's American children face, and it is no less crucial than The Simpsons.
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If we don't consider Walmart vital, Amazon.com shouldn't remain listed—surely Walmart has been more influential in the history of retail! Amazon isn't even the largest e-commerce company in gross merchandise volume (that would be Alibaba Group). Amazon's founder, Jeff Bezos, isn't vital either; within American businessmen, Thomas J. Watson, Alfred P. Sloan, and Henry Luce are more important than him. Malerisch ( talk) 11:37, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
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Perhaps redundant to Monarchy, as it is basically the one who reigns on a monarchy(?). Gabriel Yuji ( talk) 01:24, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
Somewhat neutral on this one, as the redundancy is clear, but "king"/"queen" is particularly interesting for an encyclopedia on its own. I think that's probably the reason it was added to the list in the first place. ~ Maplestrip ( chat) 13:21, 3 December 2014 (UTC) (signed later)
Any argument would be fine, RekishiEJ... Gabriel Yuji ( talk) 05:44, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
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A definitely crucial topic.
I think it's fair to have both race/racism and sex/sexism at this level, but with regards to the other groups and form of discrimination, one article is enough. In this case ageing ought to cover the biological and social aspects of ageing, of which discrimination is one part. Similarly with disability/ableism, various LGBT/heterosexism or homophobia, etc. Gizza ( t)( c) 02:36, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
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A definitely crucial topic.
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A definitely crucial topic. Some countries have banned employment discrimination based on religion.
#Oppose because it affects only a smaller part of society. --
Melody
Lavender 19:36, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
I do think this article has a pretty strong case, but we don't need to to make all major kinds of discrimination vital, as they are all similar to discrimination itself - with the exception of sexism - and racism being too vital on its own to leave out. ~ Maplestrip ( chat) 09:42, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
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A definitely crucial topic. Some countries like the U.S. have banned employment discrimination based on religion.
Freedom of religion is in fact listed under religion. Cobblet ( talk) 22:06, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
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A definitely crucial topic. Many countries have prohibited some or all types of employment discrimination.
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As discussed here, these constellations contain no vital objects, and are therefore redundant with Zodiac. I have proposed adding Astrological sign to cover these constellations, along with Zodiac and Astrology. Jucchan ( talk) 00:19, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
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As superconductivity is a state of matter in which the matter behaves like a conductor with zero resistance. It is currently placed in Electromagnetism section. Though it can be placed there, but more appropriate place for it to be in Condensed matter section under States of matter subsection. Please discuss. Logical1004 ( talk) 19:46, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
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As suggested by Sarr Cat: GMOs are used for many purposes, like in agriculture, medical research, creation of novel pets like the Glofish. Important topic area that goes beyond nutrition. Ethically controversial and has huge potential and impact. The article is at an unbelievable 4042nd position in Wikipedia's article view ranking. -- Melody Lavender 08:18, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
What about cloning? Cobblet ( talk) 09:29, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
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As suggested by Sarr Cat: Multiplication of a DNA sequence, a common and important biotech procedure. Ranks 3643 in Wikipedia article view statistics. This is a must have for the list. -- Melody Lavender 08:18, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
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Was mentioned above in Genetically modified organism. Besides the really interesting scientific advances, this topic also covers a rich history of science-fiction and a complicated topic in ethics.
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How vital is the concept of humans colonizing extraterrestrial environments? It seems a rather important aspect of human interest. It basically lists the reasons of why this subject is important in the article itself. The colonization of Mars, the Moon and the Earth's orbit would obviously fall under this article. Not even mentioning the topic's importance in science-fiction.
Oh, by the way, is Extraterrestrial life on the list yet? I haven't been able to find it.
I think I'd support this, I consider it very important very likely to come in our future history at some point. We include tech articles about the very beginnings that actually exist like space station, ISS, shuttle, rocket, satellite and also space flight and space exploration (both also lev3), Extra terrestrial life is included under astronomy basics, here, it's placement has been discussed before and may come up again.
I imagine the counter argument that could be used may be, space colonization doesn't actually exist yet unless you count our space stations, and we shouldn't include predicted but not actually here yet things, we're not a crystal ball, things that don't exist can't be vital (although? fiction, mythology, religion is OK) etc etc. Wormhole came up in discussion and was thought probably shouldn't have it as it's too much in it's infancy and huge uncertainty as a practical topic. Although space colonization is possible just not done yet, (I wouldn't think anyone thinks it physically impossible like they could with wormhole,) cut short, I think I'd still have space colonization though.
Also we list astrobiology and extra terrestrial life, which have also not been observed, but presumably does/could exist in most peoples minds, so I don't see the problem including space colonization, and don't think the posible counter argument I am imagining would be a substantial reason to leave it off. Also I think this article would be better than many space articles we have like lists of stars, which I don't mind, but I think space colonization may be a bit more important, and I can imagine seeing it in print encyclopedias that cover such topics. Carl wev 17:10, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
Also although we list several cases of colonization we don't actually have colonization itself, should we have that? Carl wev 17:10, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
So then it would be Literature>Basic concepts of literature>Fiction>Science fiction>Time travel? It's an odd placement, but it might be the only place to put it... I mean, if it passes after being suggested, of course. Maplestrip ( talk) 20:49, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
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This article is crucial, however the expanded list does not have it.
I'll wait for some rationale as to why this article should or shouldn't be vital as well. The concept of a graph is definitely important, but I'm simply not entirely sure of it yet. Maplestrip ( talk) 19:52, 26 November 2014 (UTC)