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I'd like to suggest a modification to WP:U that I hope will raise the bar on username blocks to an appropriate level. While reviewing WP:RFCN and the block logs, I perceive a trend tending towards blocking usernames that the blocker feels 'might be seen as obscene by someone'. Specifically, the blocker isn't blocking a username that he/she finds offensive, instead the admin or concerned user is blocking/advocating the block of a username that they think someone, somewhere might be offended by. I feel this sets the standard for this specific type of username block too low, and that the language should be modified slightly to reflect that someone _does_ find it offensive, not that some unspecified third party _might_ be offended by it. Under the current policy, person X could block, say, User:Piehole, and then argue that someone might find it offensive. Anyone who disagrees can only assert their own non-offendedness but cannot authoritatively say "Nobody will be offended". The burden is inordinately skewed, in terms of backing up the assertion, in favor of the person reporting the theoretical case.
The current language lists, as unacceptable: "Usernames that contain profanity, obscenities, or other potentially offensive language (including non-English profanities)." I propose that it be modified to remove 'potentially', along the lines of "Usernames that contain profanity, obscenities (including non-English profanities), or other reasonably offensive language that a user has specifically objected to." The burden should be placed on the accuser, not the defendant, to shamelessly analogize the essential matter. Better language suggestions for the above are welcome, of course.
The current wishy-washy 'well, someone SOMEWHERE might be offended' text creates a 'follow the letter, not the spirit' environment surrounding WP:U and cheapens its role in the project. - CHAIRBOY ( ☎) 18:05, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I strongly agree with the proposal and have even removed the word "potentially" myself only to be reverted. WP:RFCN has become a joke. More than half the names that are nominated there are so innocuous as to be laughable. We have users who seem to live for nothing else than to find every username in Wikipedia that contains a religious or political term and nominate them for banning (usually without discussing the issue with the "offensive" user beforehand). Ironically many of the users who vote to ban these usernames have "potentially" offensive usernames themselves. Maybe that's how they found out about RFCN, I don't know. The whole process is like watching someone make sausage. I finally had to take it off my watchlist in disgust, as I was afraid if I participated much longer I would lose my ability to remain civil. It's also worth noting that RFCN is hopelessly skewed to a Western/Christian POV. Usernames that would get people beheaded in other countries are ignored, while usernames like SouthernPride or ILikeJesus are crucified. Kaldari 18:35, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I've put together some statistics based on the recent database dump - here. I haven't made any effort to double check these so take them with a pinch of salt (and indeed some are not necessarily in line with my expectations.) The block information is based on the block log and IIRC some entries are missing from that log due to a bug in mediawiki, I haven't looked into that and if it was in effect for the date range covered. -- pgk 22:55, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I would like to raise a few issues with the current trademark policy. First, I'll quote it as it stands:
Problem #1: This policy invites a group composed mostly of non-lawyers to make a subjective determination about whether a name is a "legal concern" for Wikipedia.
Problem #2: This policy doesn't give any clue as to how "unique" or how strong of a reference constitutes a violation. Clearly "New York Yankees", but where does "Yankees fan" stand? How about "Jazz fan", which could refer to the Utah Jazz, or to jazz music? How about a john-at-comcast-dot-com, which while discouraged as an e-mail address, isn't prohibited, and contains a reference to Comcast? How about User:BuickCenturyDriver, which is undoubtedly a reference to a Buick Century, but certainly not a trademark infringement in the legal sense.
Problem #3: The notion that words like "accord" or "goggle" should be blocked is highly misleading and open to misinterpretation. A lawyer can likely tell you that using these as usernames doesn't even come close to violating any trademark law anywhere. With the amount of stretching that this "policy" demonstrates, just about any username could be accused of being "similar" to somebody's trademark.
Problem #4: The policy is awash in legal inexpertise. If the person who wrote the policy doesn't even know that copyright law (as mentioned in the policy) doesn't even deal with trademarks AT ALL, then the rule was clearly written with an insufficient level of legal knowledge to be doing such a thing. (The person who wrote the policy probably doesn't know that using a trademark as a username on an online forum isn't a trademark violation either, even if it's a blatant use of a trademark, save the exception that the person is trying to impersonate a representative of the trademark owner.) Intellectual property law 101: Trademarks exclusively cover use of commercial marks, and copyrights exclusively cover works.
This rule should either be stricken, revised, or evaluated by Jimbo or the Wikimedia Foundation's lawyer, as it clearly wasn't written according to Wikipedia's guidelines for self-imposing rules for legal reasons. "The community [consisting mostly of non-lawyers] should not use its incomplete comprehension of legality to impose restrictions upon itself", and "the Wikimedia Foundation employs a lawyer who will inform [them] if and when restrictive actions are necessary." - See WP:PEREN#Legal issues.
-- Reswobslc 21:34, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Actually the old version is worse. "Miami Heat" is a perfectly reasonable username. It is hot in Miami, and it is not our concern if sports teams choose generic names. For other names, regardless of any legal issues, usernames should not pretend to be those of some company. — Centrx→ talk • 03:12, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Comment to everyone, I've asked
Brad Patrick about this so hopefully he can sort this out. The page has now been fully protected so we need clarification from him before we can move on'
RyanPostlethwaiteSee
the mess I've created or
let's have banter 23:59, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
In defence of this user, I don't think this was a claim to speak for WMF. Rather, because this rule was not "from above" to begin with, I think the point was that if the WMF wants a rule to protect themselves from trademark infrigement action, they can direct us. I believe the advice cited above ( WP:PEREN#Legal issues) is what was being followed here: in absence of such direction, we should not have rules based on bad legal reasoning like this. I also agree with this advice. Abu-Fool Danyal ibn Amir al-Makhiri 19:52, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I've recently noticed a lot of usernames with poop in are blocked for having offensive usernames, would anyone agree that this is not offensive and should be written into policy as an example of a username which is not offensive? RyanPostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 23:56, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
-- sunstar net talk 00:27, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
I have protected the page from further editing until the conflict over the "trademarks rule" has been settled. Having a revert war on official policy, especially one we ask new users to review before creating thier username, is a very bad thing. Please continue the discussion on the inclusion/exclusion, and request unprotection when the dispute has been resolved. Administrators are reminded to avoid editing or unprotecting protected pages if they are parties in the dispute; please ask an uninvolved administrator to make any necessary edits or unprotect the page. Essjay (Talk) 23:57, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Your best bet is to email him and point him here; his email is at the top of his talk page. I have no idea if he'll be willing to make an official statement on this, though. Essjay (Talk) 00:09, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Would it be possible to add "developer" to this section as an extension to this wording: Usernames that imply an official role or a position with access to additional tools not available to a standard user, such as "Administrator", "Admin", "System operator", "Sysop", or "Moderator". to make it more explicit. The matter arose today at WP:RFCN. Archive link Thanks. Bubba hotep 13:19, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I went ahead and added it to further clarify the various official role names that should not be allowed. ¤~Persian Poet Gal (talk) 19:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Some clarity on this would be great. Recently, my bee in my bonnet has been people reporting new editors to RFC purely because of their name, with no effort whatsoever made to contact the new editor first. This, to me, smacks of newbie biting. This policy - WP:U - says that if a username is borderline inappropriate, you:
However, the RFCN header ({{ RFCUsername}}) says "please consider asking first". Given that this is the root policy, I've amended the RFCN header to match - changing "please consider asking" to "please ask". I raise this here rather than on the template talk page as this should (hopefully?) recieve more input. Is this a reasonable change? IS this how we want it to work? I am very much in favour of always asking politely first (we even have a suitable template to do so). Proto ► 18:32, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
I saw Centrx ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) made an addition to the list of inappropriate names. I'm just wondering how closely related does the username have to be to warrant a username block? I mean, I don't see blocking Yankeesfan94, or Yankees4life indefinitely. Is it just referring to team names and such? Also, ::the examples posted were all team names, but would this same thing apply to companies and such? I have blocked a handful of usernames because their name implied commercial ties. Thanks, Nishkid 64 22:03, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Username says:
It may not be obvious to a (potential) new user how to "contact an admin". Even if there is a wikilink to (say) the page with the list of admins, it's still a random thing as to whether (a) the admin contacted is inactive or not; (b) if active, the admin is on a wikibreak; (c) the admin notices and responds; and (d) the quality of the answer of one person who may not have much experience with inappropriate usernames.
So - a suggestion, for discussion: What about an (additional) section at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User names where someone could ask about the proprietary of their real name as a user name? (I'm not suggesting a section to ask about potential usernames in general; that invites policy-testing and game-playing; only about real names.)
In a nutshell, what about changing the policy from "contact an admin" to "post at WP:RFC/U"? -- John Broughton (♫♫) 18:05, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
There's an interesting issue with Usernames containing the word "Muhammad". Muhammad (name) is a very common Muslim/Arabic name (it is the most common first name and the most common last name in the world). However, by the letter of WP:U names like User:MuhammadRahman (literal trans: Muhammad merciful) would be banned, since they refer to a religious figure. (Just google "Muhammad Rahman" to see how common this name is)
The burden of proof should be on the community's side — and it should be a strong demand for proof. At the moment the letter of the law is being pursued with scant regard for common sense; people who are either oversensitive themselves or overprotective of the supposed sensitivities of others are bringing ridiculous cases to WP:RFCN. OK, they're often laughed off the page, but not always (not often enough, I think).
WP:U offers guidelines, not polcies, and shouldn't be treated like an inflexible law to be applied without thought or question. -- Mel Etitis ( Talk) 15:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, yes, I was careless — a policy it is. As Ginkgo100 points out, though, it doesn't replace our intelligence abd common sense. It was created for a reason, and applying it where that reason is absent goes against its spirit if not its letter. -- Mel Etitis ( Talk) 22:30, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
I have unprotected this page because there are a few proposed additions that seem likely to succeed. A major policy should not be protected for too long. I please do not engage in edit warring, it is often preferred to block users than to protect pages. HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 05:04, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I have restored the policy in the edit before this edit [3] one, as the page clearly says: "When editing this page, please ensure that your revision reflects consensus". As there was no discussion whatsoever before making the change, the revision did not reflect consensus, it was just one user's opinion. Although the change has been there a year now, that doesn't necessarily reflect any consensus, as the page clearly says at the top [This page represents consensus]. So a user making an out-of-process unilateral change effectively creates consensus, because subsequent readers would then read the page and believe that its state represents consensus. This is clearly contradictory with the statement that changes should not be made without consensus.
Accordingly, I have reverted the edit, as the original change was invalid as it was made without any consensus, mention, or discussion whatsoever (not even in the edit summary), and I don't see that I should have to justify removing a change made on the basis of one user's opinion Nssdfdsfds 00:29, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Er, as I've said, the fact it's been in the policy for over less than a year proves nothing. The policy says at the top that it represents consensus. Therefore nobody's going to change it because they've been told it represents consensus, even though it was a unilaterl change. So that's a non-starter as a justification. And consensus? Looking at your link, I don't see any. The only user who was endorsing the policy as it was unilaterally created was inBC, Kukini wanted to modify it, as did Benedict_the_moor, and tjstrf. And that's with these people starting from the assumption (which is incorrect) that as the policy is on the page it must have followed consensus. Nobody noticed that some user just took it upon himself to add it, but despite that, there's still no agreement on it. So I'm not sure why you're saying it's been endorsed, as it clearly hasn't
Nssdfdsfds 01:33, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
The list of "random" admin names from his RFCN seems relevant - pasted: "Allow c'mon guys, lets be serious here. This username isnt really a breach of policy. To me it seems no more or less random than User:EWS23 User:Rd232 User:Zzyzx11 User:Nv8200p User:Mdd4696 User:Jcw69 or User:Ixfd64 (all of whom are administrators!) Glen 10:34, 8 March 2007 (UTC)" - The policy, _as written_, does not allow these names. If the actual policy being enforced (i.e. the one that actually has consensus) is something other than this, this page should be changed. -- Random832 14:49, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Does any of you really think that it would be possible to quantify absolutely a subjective criterion? Were it that easy, we wouldn't have judges in beauty contests (or the Eurovision). We'd just go ahead and unanimously pick the best looking gal/song. Niko Silver 15:36, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Therefore, IMO, the process as it is now, is the perfect emulation of quantification of subjectiveness: We have 5 or 10 or 20 !judges [sic], voting in WP:RFCN! I wouldn't change a iota. Niko Silver 15:40, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
The point is that it will eventually rest on the judgement of the community. Nssddfsfdsfs (and others) will always be marginal cases. What we may want to do, is alter the philosophy: How about "no consensus" defaults to "disallow", since obviously there will be a significant number of users who have a problem with these names? Niko Silver 15:44, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I would like to add that username with the = sign be forbidden as that breaks templates such as {{ vandal}} and others. Betacommand ( talk • contribs • Bot) 16:48, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Example: Using the {{ vandal}} template on User:Billbailey=legend will result in: User-multi error: no username detected ( help).
Technical problems: Names that contain the character "=" will stop certain aspects of Wikipedia from working properly. Names with the "=" sign in it are not allowed for this reason.
How about:
Technical problems: Names that contain the character "=" are not allowed because they result in confusing the code (mainly in certain Wikipedia templates).
Thoughts? (how about we also add it and tweak it there along with its context?) Niko Silver 14:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Now that the technical problems of this are solved (so to speak), does anyone still object to the removal of the new rule? -- Conti| ✉ 15:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Having found no policy or guideline on the matter of abandoning one username and starting anew with another (I know it's perfectly acceptable, but I think this should be in writing), I've posted a note at Wikipedia talk:Changing username#Abandoning one username and starting anew with another about whether there should be formal, written guidance on this matter, and, if so, where.
Comments are strongly invited - please post there rather than here so all information is in one place. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 21:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Why does the policy specify only religious figures, rather than a broader sweep of specifically religious terminology. I say specifically, to avoid arguing over common terms like "cross", but I would have thought if we're discouraging Jesus/Mohammed etc, we should extend that to "crucifix", "Ramadan" etc.
Just to clarify, I make this observation from the point of consistency. And as with the careful wording re the names of religious figures, I would suggest that we should not blanket object to all such usages. -- Dweller 18:01, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
There should also be no trivialization of religions such as in this case [7]. Overall, the religious policy should revolve around respect for religion not suppression of religion. The probably block of Dvoted2christ ( talk · contribs) may be an example of wrongly blocking a user for simply expressing a religious belief without attempting to stuff it down another's throat. The Behnam 22:10, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
The policy currently states that the MediaWiki software will disallow any username with an @ sign in it, yet I just saw and blocked someone w/ this sign in their username. So I'm confused. Natalie 01:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
I feel that a company name should be allowed as a user name, provided that the user provides some proof of their affiliation with this company. Any thoughts? -- 24fan24 ( talk) 21:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
I am deeply saddened to see people allowing usernames like User:Hentai Jeff (an obvious sexual reference) at WP:RFC/NAME, but disallowing clearly benign usernames like User:Jesusfreak, which is only a positive connotation of a religious figure. The whole point of disallowing religious usernames is to avoid offensive ones (e.g., User:ChristIsNotGod, User:AllahSupportsViolence, etc.) or ones that deliberately misspeak of the place of the user (e.g., User:Allah; it could be very offensive to a Muslim to have a person claim to be God). But a username like User:DevoutBuddhist is offensive to absolutely no one, and we are disallowing these usernames left and right. Patstuart talk· edits
Current Usernames of religious figures such as "God", "Jehovah", "Buddha", or "Allah", which may offend other people's beliefs. Usernames partly comprised of these terms are not always necessarily prohibited but may be subject to review.
Proposed
Usernames which consist solely of the name of a religious figure are prohibited such as "God", "Jehovah", "Buddha", or "Allah", in addition, usernames that invoke the name of a religious figure or religion may be prohibited should they be distasteful, provoke or promote intollerance, or are blatantly disrespectful of the religion, are also prohibited. Usernames that are clearly expressions of faith are discouraged, however considered allowed unless disruptive. Should a username not be clear as to the motive, it may be reviewed.
Reason
The current policy is far to open for interpretation, allowing for the potential of abuses and inconsistancies. The proposed revision defines far more clearly what usernames are prohibited, which ones are allowed (yet discouraged), but still leaving the option for review open. The proposal has come after the RfC for "SlaveOFChrist" uncovered some inconsistancies, as other similar names, such as "ASERVANTOFCHRIST" was allowed, along with other usernames that invoke the name of Christ.
Examples of tasteful usernames
To clarify, some examples of 'tasteful usernames' would be "ImCoolWithJesus" or "JehovahsFriend", "AllahsFriend", etc.
Examples of distasteful usernames
Distasteful usernames: "JesusSux", "DownWithAllah", "MayChristBeWithYou", etc.
TALK| HISTORY 13:34, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I feel that it is a needed change. I think the semantics need to be worked out but WP:RFCN is becoming crazy. You never know which way it is going to swing and it depends on whose online, and often, who the first person to get a good argument in is. I think we eiliminate way toooo many names and unless it is blatantly offensive, I have no problem with it. The problem is going to be drawing the line between offensisve and not offensive. I think the recent WP:RFCN for AslaveofChrist (not sure the proper capitalisation on that one) was an issue because some people thought it might be offensive. A clarification of the policy would not have helped this situation. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 13:43, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Based on feedback from others (see above), I'm proposing the following modified version of the origional form:
Usernames which consist solely of the name of a religious figure are prohibited such as "God", "Jehovah", "Buddha", or "Allah", in addition, usernames that invoke the name of a religious figure or religion may be prohibited should they be distasteful, provoke or promote intolerance, are blatantly disrespectful of the religion, promote the ideology that one religion is superior to others (e.g. "ChristOnly", etc.), are also prohibited. Usernames that are clearly expressions of faith are discouraged, however considered allowed unless disruptive. Should a username not be clear as to the motive, it may be reviewed.
I like it. I think it is a good addition without too much scope creep. I think in this situation, it needs to be as clear and concise as to what is allowed and what is not allowed as possible. It could be very offensive to any user of another religion to everday have to work with an editor whose name may be Buddahistheonlygod or something like that. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 16:54, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Yeah I like this version, and will certainly clear things up Ryanpostlethwaite contribs/ talk 17:05, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Because people seem to like this, I'm proposing some minor changes for clarity.
Flyguy649
talk
contribs 17:18, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Usernames which consist primarily of the name of a religious figure (such as "God", "Jehovah", "Buddha", or "Allah") are prohibited. In addition, usernames that invoke the name of a religious figure or religion are prohibited should they be distasteful, provoke or promote intolerance, are blatantly disrespectful of the religion, or promote the ideology that one religion is superior to others (e.g. "ChristOnly", etc.). Usernames that are clearly expressions of faith are discouraged, however considered allowed unless disruptive. Should a username not be clear as to the motive, it may be reviewed.
Isent that just minor gramatical changes? The content is still the same as far as I can tell. If it is different, could you highluight the changes? -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 17:20, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, ladies and gentilmen, I think we've done a good job at nailing down some problem areas. I agree the third should go forth. HighInBC stated he would wait awhile to see if we got anyone coming in screaming, but I think that has A snowballs chance in hell of happening. Cascadia TALK| HISTORY 17:37, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I think we all like this, but should we leave this discussion going for another couple of hours to see if anyone else spots something? Or WP:SNOW ? Flyguy649 talk contribs 18:07, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
A recent RfC/N prompted some dissent on my part (a bit provocatively I fear) from my misgivings about the stated rules at WP:U#Illness. The genesis was someone wanting the name User:Schizophrenic and who, when objections were raised based on stated rules, then tried for User:Scitzophrenic. That RFCN looks headed for 'disallow', through reference to the current policy. And User:WJBscribe helpfully pointed me this-a-way as the right place to ask for clarification.
In my dissent, I mentioned a few existing user names that don't seem 'wrong' to me. Since then I've added to my example list. What I hope is to point out the problem of applying this broad denial:
On the RfC/N I threw out:
In addition, a 'little' random searching (okay, I got intrigued) finds:
Which of these don't mention an illness or disease, directly or indirectly? More pertinently, what quality of the name of an illness is it that causes concern, and rejection?
Is it only illnesses that are disabilities, or that are conditions with negative associations, that are concerns? Or only those that have widely perceived negative associations?
If I use the name Hyperhydrosis is that 'bad'? That illness has greatly negative effects on the individual (e.g. shunning, isolation), but since sweaty palms isn't thought to be catching, no one will 'worry' about it?.
I finally went and looked in the archives, and I found some previous discussion here: Illnesses, disabilities and conditions? (archive 2) . Actually, it looks like people there objected to the rule also.
I'm not sure I want to throw out the rule entirely, but think we need more guidance as to application. User:UraSyphiliticPusBrainedIdiot is out already because it is an attack, but maybe User:SyphiliticPusBrainedIdiot is 'okay' as humor?
And perhaps that is the answer, that in every case that would be objectionable, there is already an applicable other part of the policy that would apply?
Shenme 03:50, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I'd like to suggest a modification to WP:U that I hope will raise the bar on username blocks to an appropriate level. While reviewing WP:RFCN and the block logs, I perceive a trend tending towards blocking usernames that the blocker feels 'might be seen as obscene by someone'. Specifically, the blocker isn't blocking a username that he/she finds offensive, instead the admin or concerned user is blocking/advocating the block of a username that they think someone, somewhere might be offended by. I feel this sets the standard for this specific type of username block too low, and that the language should be modified slightly to reflect that someone _does_ find it offensive, not that some unspecified third party _might_ be offended by it. Under the current policy, person X could block, say, User:Piehole, and then argue that someone might find it offensive. Anyone who disagrees can only assert their own non-offendedness but cannot authoritatively say "Nobody will be offended". The burden is inordinately skewed, in terms of backing up the assertion, in favor of the person reporting the theoretical case.
The current language lists, as unacceptable: "Usernames that contain profanity, obscenities, or other potentially offensive language (including non-English profanities)." I propose that it be modified to remove 'potentially', along the lines of "Usernames that contain profanity, obscenities (including non-English profanities), or other reasonably offensive language that a user has specifically objected to." The burden should be placed on the accuser, not the defendant, to shamelessly analogize the essential matter. Better language suggestions for the above are welcome, of course.
The current wishy-washy 'well, someone SOMEWHERE might be offended' text creates a 'follow the letter, not the spirit' environment surrounding WP:U and cheapens its role in the project. - CHAIRBOY ( ☎) 18:05, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I strongly agree with the proposal and have even removed the word "potentially" myself only to be reverted. WP:RFCN has become a joke. More than half the names that are nominated there are so innocuous as to be laughable. We have users who seem to live for nothing else than to find every username in Wikipedia that contains a religious or political term and nominate them for banning (usually without discussing the issue with the "offensive" user beforehand). Ironically many of the users who vote to ban these usernames have "potentially" offensive usernames themselves. Maybe that's how they found out about RFCN, I don't know. The whole process is like watching someone make sausage. I finally had to take it off my watchlist in disgust, as I was afraid if I participated much longer I would lose my ability to remain civil. It's also worth noting that RFCN is hopelessly skewed to a Western/Christian POV. Usernames that would get people beheaded in other countries are ignored, while usernames like SouthernPride or ILikeJesus are crucified. Kaldari 18:35, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I've put together some statistics based on the recent database dump - here. I haven't made any effort to double check these so take them with a pinch of salt (and indeed some are not necessarily in line with my expectations.) The block information is based on the block log and IIRC some entries are missing from that log due to a bug in mediawiki, I haven't looked into that and if it was in effect for the date range covered. -- pgk 22:55, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I would like to raise a few issues with the current trademark policy. First, I'll quote it as it stands:
Problem #1: This policy invites a group composed mostly of non-lawyers to make a subjective determination about whether a name is a "legal concern" for Wikipedia.
Problem #2: This policy doesn't give any clue as to how "unique" or how strong of a reference constitutes a violation. Clearly "New York Yankees", but where does "Yankees fan" stand? How about "Jazz fan", which could refer to the Utah Jazz, or to jazz music? How about a john-at-comcast-dot-com, which while discouraged as an e-mail address, isn't prohibited, and contains a reference to Comcast? How about User:BuickCenturyDriver, which is undoubtedly a reference to a Buick Century, but certainly not a trademark infringement in the legal sense.
Problem #3: The notion that words like "accord" or "goggle" should be blocked is highly misleading and open to misinterpretation. A lawyer can likely tell you that using these as usernames doesn't even come close to violating any trademark law anywhere. With the amount of stretching that this "policy" demonstrates, just about any username could be accused of being "similar" to somebody's trademark.
Problem #4: The policy is awash in legal inexpertise. If the person who wrote the policy doesn't even know that copyright law (as mentioned in the policy) doesn't even deal with trademarks AT ALL, then the rule was clearly written with an insufficient level of legal knowledge to be doing such a thing. (The person who wrote the policy probably doesn't know that using a trademark as a username on an online forum isn't a trademark violation either, even if it's a blatant use of a trademark, save the exception that the person is trying to impersonate a representative of the trademark owner.) Intellectual property law 101: Trademarks exclusively cover use of commercial marks, and copyrights exclusively cover works.
This rule should either be stricken, revised, or evaluated by Jimbo or the Wikimedia Foundation's lawyer, as it clearly wasn't written according to Wikipedia's guidelines for self-imposing rules for legal reasons. "The community [consisting mostly of non-lawyers] should not use its incomplete comprehension of legality to impose restrictions upon itself", and "the Wikimedia Foundation employs a lawyer who will inform [them] if and when restrictive actions are necessary." - See WP:PEREN#Legal issues.
-- Reswobslc 21:34, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Actually the old version is worse. "Miami Heat" is a perfectly reasonable username. It is hot in Miami, and it is not our concern if sports teams choose generic names. For other names, regardless of any legal issues, usernames should not pretend to be those of some company. — Centrx→ talk • 03:12, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Comment to everyone, I've asked
Brad Patrick about this so hopefully he can sort this out. The page has now been fully protected so we need clarification from him before we can move on'
RyanPostlethwaiteSee
the mess I've created or
let's have banter 23:59, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
In defence of this user, I don't think this was a claim to speak for WMF. Rather, because this rule was not "from above" to begin with, I think the point was that if the WMF wants a rule to protect themselves from trademark infrigement action, they can direct us. I believe the advice cited above ( WP:PEREN#Legal issues) is what was being followed here: in absence of such direction, we should not have rules based on bad legal reasoning like this. I also agree with this advice. Abu-Fool Danyal ibn Amir al-Makhiri 19:52, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I've recently noticed a lot of usernames with poop in are blocked for having offensive usernames, would anyone agree that this is not offensive and should be written into policy as an example of a username which is not offensive? RyanPostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 23:56, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
-- sunstar net talk 00:27, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
I have protected the page from further editing until the conflict over the "trademarks rule" has been settled. Having a revert war on official policy, especially one we ask new users to review before creating thier username, is a very bad thing. Please continue the discussion on the inclusion/exclusion, and request unprotection when the dispute has been resolved. Administrators are reminded to avoid editing or unprotecting protected pages if they are parties in the dispute; please ask an uninvolved administrator to make any necessary edits or unprotect the page. Essjay (Talk) 23:57, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Your best bet is to email him and point him here; his email is at the top of his talk page. I have no idea if he'll be willing to make an official statement on this, though. Essjay (Talk) 00:09, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Would it be possible to add "developer" to this section as an extension to this wording: Usernames that imply an official role or a position with access to additional tools not available to a standard user, such as "Administrator", "Admin", "System operator", "Sysop", or "Moderator". to make it more explicit. The matter arose today at WP:RFCN. Archive link Thanks. Bubba hotep 13:19, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I went ahead and added it to further clarify the various official role names that should not be allowed. ¤~Persian Poet Gal (talk) 19:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Some clarity on this would be great. Recently, my bee in my bonnet has been people reporting new editors to RFC purely because of their name, with no effort whatsoever made to contact the new editor first. This, to me, smacks of newbie biting. This policy - WP:U - says that if a username is borderline inappropriate, you:
However, the RFCN header ({{ RFCUsername}}) says "please consider asking first". Given that this is the root policy, I've amended the RFCN header to match - changing "please consider asking" to "please ask". I raise this here rather than on the template talk page as this should (hopefully?) recieve more input. Is this a reasonable change? IS this how we want it to work? I am very much in favour of always asking politely first (we even have a suitable template to do so). Proto ► 18:32, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
I saw Centrx ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) made an addition to the list of inappropriate names. I'm just wondering how closely related does the username have to be to warrant a username block? I mean, I don't see blocking Yankeesfan94, or Yankees4life indefinitely. Is it just referring to team names and such? Also, ::the examples posted were all team names, but would this same thing apply to companies and such? I have blocked a handful of usernames because their name implied commercial ties. Thanks, Nishkid 64 22:03, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Username says:
It may not be obvious to a (potential) new user how to "contact an admin". Even if there is a wikilink to (say) the page with the list of admins, it's still a random thing as to whether (a) the admin contacted is inactive or not; (b) if active, the admin is on a wikibreak; (c) the admin notices and responds; and (d) the quality of the answer of one person who may not have much experience with inappropriate usernames.
So - a suggestion, for discussion: What about an (additional) section at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User names where someone could ask about the proprietary of their real name as a user name? (I'm not suggesting a section to ask about potential usernames in general; that invites policy-testing and game-playing; only about real names.)
In a nutshell, what about changing the policy from "contact an admin" to "post at WP:RFC/U"? -- John Broughton (♫♫) 18:05, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
There's an interesting issue with Usernames containing the word "Muhammad". Muhammad (name) is a very common Muslim/Arabic name (it is the most common first name and the most common last name in the world). However, by the letter of WP:U names like User:MuhammadRahman (literal trans: Muhammad merciful) would be banned, since they refer to a religious figure. (Just google "Muhammad Rahman" to see how common this name is)
The burden of proof should be on the community's side — and it should be a strong demand for proof. At the moment the letter of the law is being pursued with scant regard for common sense; people who are either oversensitive themselves or overprotective of the supposed sensitivities of others are bringing ridiculous cases to WP:RFCN. OK, they're often laughed off the page, but not always (not often enough, I think).
WP:U offers guidelines, not polcies, and shouldn't be treated like an inflexible law to be applied without thought or question. -- Mel Etitis ( Talk) 15:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, yes, I was careless — a policy it is. As Ginkgo100 points out, though, it doesn't replace our intelligence abd common sense. It was created for a reason, and applying it where that reason is absent goes against its spirit if not its letter. -- Mel Etitis ( Talk) 22:30, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
I have unprotected this page because there are a few proposed additions that seem likely to succeed. A major policy should not be protected for too long. I please do not engage in edit warring, it is often preferred to block users than to protect pages. HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 05:04, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I have restored the policy in the edit before this edit [3] one, as the page clearly says: "When editing this page, please ensure that your revision reflects consensus". As there was no discussion whatsoever before making the change, the revision did not reflect consensus, it was just one user's opinion. Although the change has been there a year now, that doesn't necessarily reflect any consensus, as the page clearly says at the top [This page represents consensus]. So a user making an out-of-process unilateral change effectively creates consensus, because subsequent readers would then read the page and believe that its state represents consensus. This is clearly contradictory with the statement that changes should not be made without consensus.
Accordingly, I have reverted the edit, as the original change was invalid as it was made without any consensus, mention, or discussion whatsoever (not even in the edit summary), and I don't see that I should have to justify removing a change made on the basis of one user's opinion Nssdfdsfds 00:29, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Er, as I've said, the fact it's been in the policy for over less than a year proves nothing. The policy says at the top that it represents consensus. Therefore nobody's going to change it because they've been told it represents consensus, even though it was a unilaterl change. So that's a non-starter as a justification. And consensus? Looking at your link, I don't see any. The only user who was endorsing the policy as it was unilaterally created was inBC, Kukini wanted to modify it, as did Benedict_the_moor, and tjstrf. And that's with these people starting from the assumption (which is incorrect) that as the policy is on the page it must have followed consensus. Nobody noticed that some user just took it upon himself to add it, but despite that, there's still no agreement on it. So I'm not sure why you're saying it's been endorsed, as it clearly hasn't
Nssdfdsfds 01:33, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
The list of "random" admin names from his RFCN seems relevant - pasted: "Allow c'mon guys, lets be serious here. This username isnt really a breach of policy. To me it seems no more or less random than User:EWS23 User:Rd232 User:Zzyzx11 User:Nv8200p User:Mdd4696 User:Jcw69 or User:Ixfd64 (all of whom are administrators!) Glen 10:34, 8 March 2007 (UTC)" - The policy, _as written_, does not allow these names. If the actual policy being enforced (i.e. the one that actually has consensus) is something other than this, this page should be changed. -- Random832 14:49, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Does any of you really think that it would be possible to quantify absolutely a subjective criterion? Were it that easy, we wouldn't have judges in beauty contests (or the Eurovision). We'd just go ahead and unanimously pick the best looking gal/song. Niko Silver 15:36, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Therefore, IMO, the process as it is now, is the perfect emulation of quantification of subjectiveness: We have 5 or 10 or 20 !judges [sic], voting in WP:RFCN! I wouldn't change a iota. Niko Silver 15:40, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
The point is that it will eventually rest on the judgement of the community. Nssddfsfdsfs (and others) will always be marginal cases. What we may want to do, is alter the philosophy: How about "no consensus" defaults to "disallow", since obviously there will be a significant number of users who have a problem with these names? Niko Silver 15:44, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I would like to add that username with the = sign be forbidden as that breaks templates such as {{ vandal}} and others. Betacommand ( talk • contribs • Bot) 16:48, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Example: Using the {{ vandal}} template on User:Billbailey=legend will result in: User-multi error: no username detected ( help).
Technical problems: Names that contain the character "=" will stop certain aspects of Wikipedia from working properly. Names with the "=" sign in it are not allowed for this reason.
How about:
Technical problems: Names that contain the character "=" are not allowed because they result in confusing the code (mainly in certain Wikipedia templates).
Thoughts? (how about we also add it and tweak it there along with its context?) Niko Silver 14:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Now that the technical problems of this are solved (so to speak), does anyone still object to the removal of the new rule? -- Conti| ✉ 15:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Having found no policy or guideline on the matter of abandoning one username and starting anew with another (I know it's perfectly acceptable, but I think this should be in writing), I've posted a note at Wikipedia talk:Changing username#Abandoning one username and starting anew with another about whether there should be formal, written guidance on this matter, and, if so, where.
Comments are strongly invited - please post there rather than here so all information is in one place. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 21:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Why does the policy specify only religious figures, rather than a broader sweep of specifically religious terminology. I say specifically, to avoid arguing over common terms like "cross", but I would have thought if we're discouraging Jesus/Mohammed etc, we should extend that to "crucifix", "Ramadan" etc.
Just to clarify, I make this observation from the point of consistency. And as with the careful wording re the names of religious figures, I would suggest that we should not blanket object to all such usages. -- Dweller 18:01, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
There should also be no trivialization of religions such as in this case [7]. Overall, the religious policy should revolve around respect for religion not suppression of religion. The probably block of Dvoted2christ ( talk · contribs) may be an example of wrongly blocking a user for simply expressing a religious belief without attempting to stuff it down another's throat. The Behnam 22:10, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
The policy currently states that the MediaWiki software will disallow any username with an @ sign in it, yet I just saw and blocked someone w/ this sign in their username. So I'm confused. Natalie 01:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
I feel that a company name should be allowed as a user name, provided that the user provides some proof of their affiliation with this company. Any thoughts? -- 24fan24 ( talk) 21:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
I am deeply saddened to see people allowing usernames like User:Hentai Jeff (an obvious sexual reference) at WP:RFC/NAME, but disallowing clearly benign usernames like User:Jesusfreak, which is only a positive connotation of a religious figure. The whole point of disallowing religious usernames is to avoid offensive ones (e.g., User:ChristIsNotGod, User:AllahSupportsViolence, etc.) or ones that deliberately misspeak of the place of the user (e.g., User:Allah; it could be very offensive to a Muslim to have a person claim to be God). But a username like User:DevoutBuddhist is offensive to absolutely no one, and we are disallowing these usernames left and right. Patstuart talk· edits
Current Usernames of religious figures such as "God", "Jehovah", "Buddha", or "Allah", which may offend other people's beliefs. Usernames partly comprised of these terms are not always necessarily prohibited but may be subject to review.
Proposed
Usernames which consist solely of the name of a religious figure are prohibited such as "God", "Jehovah", "Buddha", or "Allah", in addition, usernames that invoke the name of a religious figure or religion may be prohibited should they be distasteful, provoke or promote intollerance, or are blatantly disrespectful of the religion, are also prohibited. Usernames that are clearly expressions of faith are discouraged, however considered allowed unless disruptive. Should a username not be clear as to the motive, it may be reviewed.
Reason
The current policy is far to open for interpretation, allowing for the potential of abuses and inconsistancies. The proposed revision defines far more clearly what usernames are prohibited, which ones are allowed (yet discouraged), but still leaving the option for review open. The proposal has come after the RfC for "SlaveOFChrist" uncovered some inconsistancies, as other similar names, such as "ASERVANTOFCHRIST" was allowed, along with other usernames that invoke the name of Christ.
Examples of tasteful usernames
To clarify, some examples of 'tasteful usernames' would be "ImCoolWithJesus" or "JehovahsFriend", "AllahsFriend", etc.
Examples of distasteful usernames
Distasteful usernames: "JesusSux", "DownWithAllah", "MayChristBeWithYou", etc.
TALK| HISTORY 13:34, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I feel that it is a needed change. I think the semantics need to be worked out but WP:RFCN is becoming crazy. You never know which way it is going to swing and it depends on whose online, and often, who the first person to get a good argument in is. I think we eiliminate way toooo many names and unless it is blatantly offensive, I have no problem with it. The problem is going to be drawing the line between offensisve and not offensive. I think the recent WP:RFCN for AslaveofChrist (not sure the proper capitalisation on that one) was an issue because some people thought it might be offensive. A clarification of the policy would not have helped this situation. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 13:43, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Based on feedback from others (see above), I'm proposing the following modified version of the origional form:
Usernames which consist solely of the name of a religious figure are prohibited such as "God", "Jehovah", "Buddha", or "Allah", in addition, usernames that invoke the name of a religious figure or religion may be prohibited should they be distasteful, provoke or promote intolerance, are blatantly disrespectful of the religion, promote the ideology that one religion is superior to others (e.g. "ChristOnly", etc.), are also prohibited. Usernames that are clearly expressions of faith are discouraged, however considered allowed unless disruptive. Should a username not be clear as to the motive, it may be reviewed.
I like it. I think it is a good addition without too much scope creep. I think in this situation, it needs to be as clear and concise as to what is allowed and what is not allowed as possible. It could be very offensive to any user of another religion to everday have to work with an editor whose name may be Buddahistheonlygod or something like that. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 16:54, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Yeah I like this version, and will certainly clear things up Ryanpostlethwaite contribs/ talk 17:05, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Because people seem to like this, I'm proposing some minor changes for clarity.
Flyguy649
talk
contribs 17:18, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Usernames which consist primarily of the name of a religious figure (such as "God", "Jehovah", "Buddha", or "Allah") are prohibited. In addition, usernames that invoke the name of a religious figure or religion are prohibited should they be distasteful, provoke or promote intolerance, are blatantly disrespectful of the religion, or promote the ideology that one religion is superior to others (e.g. "ChristOnly", etc.). Usernames that are clearly expressions of faith are discouraged, however considered allowed unless disruptive. Should a username not be clear as to the motive, it may be reviewed.
Isent that just minor gramatical changes? The content is still the same as far as I can tell. If it is different, could you highluight the changes? -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 17:20, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, ladies and gentilmen, I think we've done a good job at nailing down some problem areas. I agree the third should go forth. HighInBC stated he would wait awhile to see if we got anyone coming in screaming, but I think that has A snowballs chance in hell of happening. Cascadia TALK| HISTORY 17:37, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I think we all like this, but should we leave this discussion going for another couple of hours to see if anyone else spots something? Or WP:SNOW ? Flyguy649 talk contribs 18:07, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
A recent RfC/N prompted some dissent on my part (a bit provocatively I fear) from my misgivings about the stated rules at WP:U#Illness. The genesis was someone wanting the name User:Schizophrenic and who, when objections were raised based on stated rules, then tried for User:Scitzophrenic. That RFCN looks headed for 'disallow', through reference to the current policy. And User:WJBscribe helpfully pointed me this-a-way as the right place to ask for clarification.
In my dissent, I mentioned a few existing user names that don't seem 'wrong' to me. Since then I've added to my example list. What I hope is to point out the problem of applying this broad denial:
On the RfC/N I threw out:
In addition, a 'little' random searching (okay, I got intrigued) finds:
Which of these don't mention an illness or disease, directly or indirectly? More pertinently, what quality of the name of an illness is it that causes concern, and rejection?
Is it only illnesses that are disabilities, or that are conditions with negative associations, that are concerns? Or only those that have widely perceived negative associations?
If I use the name Hyperhydrosis is that 'bad'? That illness has greatly negative effects on the individual (e.g. shunning, isolation), but since sweaty palms isn't thought to be catching, no one will 'worry' about it?.
I finally went and looked in the archives, and I found some previous discussion here: Illnesses, disabilities and conditions? (archive 2) . Actually, it looks like people there objected to the rule also.
I'm not sure I want to throw out the rule entirely, but think we need more guidance as to application. User:UraSyphiliticPusBrainedIdiot is out already because it is an attack, but maybe User:SyphiliticPusBrainedIdiot is 'okay' as humor?
And perhaps that is the answer, that in every case that would be objectionable, there is already an applicable other part of the policy that would apply?
Shenme 03:50, 24 March 2007 (UTC)