Essays Mid‑impact | ||||||||||
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Hello everyone. I am from Venezuela so I don`t know if I'll be well received here. I was editing slightly some anime articles so they could have some more information. But it seems that I was involved in some edit war without noticing it. For example, I added information about broadcast details of Monkey Typhoon (to be exact, about its premiere in L.A. countries) but that was just erased. Then, when I read the Talk/Discussion about the anime Kimagure Orange Road, someone said I've removed the information about other languages as this will only snowball and is not important for the English Wikipedia. If people want to learn about the show in other languages, they can click on the interwiki links (as that's what they are for). Which is, then, the case of considering Wikipedia as an encyclopedia if its members are holding it as a mere local Internet magazine? Shouldn't the information be universal? I did no longer make edits in the articles of this Wikipedia because it's calling me vandal (is there any other reason for my contribution deletions?), and I'm trying not to lose my calm. It's boring to make article edits in just one version of Wikipedia (Spanish, in my case), so I want to help in other languages
PS: Sorry if my English script is not perfect. 200.71.186.242 00:02, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm a newbie in need of advice. After happily working on some articles about physics and other noncontroversial subjects, I did some editing on these articles: astrology, horoscope, and Walter Mercado (an astrologer). Now I seem to be getting into "edit wars." Any suggestions on how to handle this? I felt that the original articles were completely credulous about astrology, and lacked any pretense of a neutral point of view. The Walter Mercado article is particularly goofy; if you look at its history, it started out with an anonymous user sticking in a fluffy, adulatory fan piece. Then someone edited it to try to restore a neutal point of view. Then a user came along and changed it back, and then I edited it again. How long does this go on? -- User:Bcrowell
I have to say I originally wrote the Walter Mercado article. Yes, I admire the man, because he is a legend of Puerto Rico and I did not know how to write back then because it was one of my very first articles. But in no way does it look like a fan page in my opinion. I am not personally a fan of his although I do admire him for the aforementioned reason. Tell me, if I attempted to make it look like a fan page would I have talked about his rumored (keep in mind I said rumored, Im not saying he is) homosexuality??
I like the page the way it is now. It looks less point of view and more like an encyclopedia article. As with all other articles I began to write, I will keep the page updated with any new information I get and I hope all over wiki-collaborators do the same.
Thanks and God bless you
Sincerely yours; Antonio I want Pink!! Martin
- - - -
By the way, is the use of a first-person sentence ("I think this is the type of users we don't really want on Wikipedia, and a few have been.") deliberate and ironic? If not, could this sentence itself be rephrased to NPOV?
___
If you are going to talk about "removing" people, lets get rid of this "anyone including you can edit an article now. Because to define "anyone" and then get really specific and say "you" but then employ some technical/legal device and perhaps force to exclude an individual from the category of you could very well provoke someone in a way we don't want to see. If you don't mean anyone, don't say it.
It worries me that this very important subject matter is spread across at least 3 articles.
Wikipedia:Civility,
Wikipedia:Wikiquette and
Wikipedia:Staying cool when the editing gets hot. I don't see this as situation as necessarily bad or redundant in a functional sense. That is, I think it's valuable to have 3 kinds of pages: 1) a succinct cheat-sheet that we can point people to from the Welcome page or in our personal greetings to new users, which I think is the purpose the Wikiquette page serves now. 2) A good cheat sheet that mediators could provide a link to when a talk page discussion heats up, which I think the "Staying cool" page is meant to be. 3) A deeper and more substantiated discussion of civility to which we might direct the philosophically or ideologically uncivil ("Duh, I know how to be polite, but this place is a jungle and so it's jungle rules that I'm going to go by") or anybody who's interested. I think that's what's going on with the "Civility" page. My worry is that with 3 places for people to contribute ideas on Civility, some pages are liable to miss out on some valuable ideas, and our lean-mean cheat sheets about how to be nice will become bloated tomes that just turn away the cranky and make them crankier. To guard against this, I suggest we formally declare these pages a "series" or group of pages, which each acknowledge each other in some prominent and official-looking way. That way, if someone stumbles on what is not quite the right page for their idea or their need, they will know immediately where to go, and likewise would-be mediators will learn that they have a choice of where to point their hypothetical mediatees, and so be able pick the most suitable one. Also if these pages are more prominently connected to one another, someone with a good idea for one of them will be led to consider whether it's a good one for any of the others, and add it, either beefing it up or trimming it down, as appropriate to the page for which the idea is destined. What do people think? 168... 17:35, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Copied from Wikipedia talk:Civility: I suggest that anybody who is interested post responses there. 168... 17:38, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Added "Deletion upsets people and makes them feel they have wasted their time: consider moving their text to a sub-directory of their user pages instead (e.g. saying not quite the right place for it but so they can still use it): much less provocative" this happened in my first 24 hours: set up a duplicate page without checking and wrote lots of stuff on it. Outrage at deletion become contentment with it being moved to my space to see what wasn't duplicated. -- (talk) BozMo 21:00, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
(from WP:RM)
These seem (from a cursory look) to be about the same topic. I think they should be merged; any objections? JesseW 12:55, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
While material contributed to the article space is open for editing by any person, postings to the Talk space are the signed words of specific editors. It is not OK to alter someone else's words and leave their signature on them, since doing so makes it seem that the person wrote something different from what they actually wrote.
Altering someone else's signed words is forgery and misrepresentation. Even if you feel that someone else's words are objectionable, this does not convey to you the right to make it seem that they said something different from what they actually said.
See also Wikipedia talk:Civility#Defacing others' talk comments considered harmful.
-- FOo 22:19, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
From the article, as it goes directly against rather important parts of our code of conduct; the last time I looked, changing others' comments was considered a significant offense. -- Kizor 12:09, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Since it is not official policy, I have requested that SCEGH be merged into Wikipedia:Words of wisdom. →Iñgōlemo← talk 03:42, 2005 May 24 (UTC)
It seems awfully out of place compared to other policy pages, despite containing some useful information. NEMT 16:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello, may I murge the 2 pages together? General Eisenhower 00:04, 25 March 2006 (UTC) Eisenhower official
This is a guideline re-stated as an essay. I can not see the point. I merged the text into Wikipedia:Etiquette, so given that is a "guideline" and this is an "essay", you should check that article to see I've stuffed up any further! You might also notice that article repeats almost word for word much of the content of this article, and both articles have the same message.
As for the merge not having support, 4 sections of the talk page call for a merge with no real objections (though I chose Wikipedia:Etiquette myself as there seem to be a number of pages essentially saying the same thing, and that was the most official / fully developed version). I notice you have not objected to the calls for a merge!
If this page has to stay, at least you have put the essay template on here. There are a number of pages that link to here which imply it is something more. I don't have a problem with essays, but I think ones which simply regurgetate existing policy or guidelines, while not advancing any new arguments, serve only to clutter up the Wikipedia namespace. If this page was about the merits of being civil, or even uncivil, then it would have a place. At the moment it simply states ways to get along with fellow editors, and pushes the POV that it is good to be civil (Note: I am not saying that pushing a POV here is bad, I just think that it should only justify the POV) Also, I feel essays should be marked as such and "feel" like an essay - this feels like a POV semi-official-semi-guideline. Wikipedia:No angry mastodons gets this right - though it also tells us how to be civil (which is repeated elsewhere). Because it is an essay, I always intended to leave it alone! Gareth Aus 08:16, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
I support this merger, as long as the cucumber pictures as included. You've just got to love those pictures, absolutely hilarious
GreatKing 23:09, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
This is the worst possible idea ever. This is an essay. Wikipedia:Etiquette is a policy. Etiquette's page is completely serious, and is not an essay. Why would we get rid of that? This idea is preposterous. -- Rory096 19:06, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
The picture on this page makes no sense. Why do you want to stay cool as a cucumber, let alone a cucumber with secondary-sex characteristics? I suggest a diffrent image, something that gets the point across a bit more? idk - 68.228.33.74 06:12, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
and wheres the resource that says cucumbers are cool? I think thats original research
im just joking :P and i like the pictures
ok, what the hell. People who edit wikipedia usually arent six years old, those cucumbers are just retarded, like WTF! Tubyboulin 22:31, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
I've got to agree with Tubyboulin. The cucumbers make it hard to take the article seriously. It's the first thing you notice on the page, and at first glance I thought it was an alien. I'd be for removing or replacing the images. -- HiEv 06:21, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
I suggest we remove this sentence, or at least reword to it to make it less offensive. Why can't we have "don't be a jerk" instead? StaticElectric 07:02, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
I am a wiki vandal but this page has made me think otherwise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.72.122.3 ( talk) 21:13, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Or whining. Those are common responces one may get when following the advice and "reporting disruptive users to administrators". Thus the flow chart should have one more step: "Does the administrator care"? "Yes - done", "No - try again or go on wikibreak after all". PS. I am an administrator :) -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 22:04, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Please someone answer this. I've been editing a talkpage of a controversive article on climate change denial and minutes later I was tagged as "a possible sibaby sockpuppet". I don't know who tagged me and why. Maybe it's because I used colons for subparagraphs to make better layout which looked as if I was answering myself. Or maybe it's because the person above me was also tagged and someone thought we were the same person. Maybe because I use shared IP. Or maybe tagging system is being abused.
Anyways, soon users KimDabelsteinPetersen and William M. Connolley deleted my comment in discussion panel. It was titled "this article could become neutral". There I gave some editorial ideas they didn't like.
After I contacted them on their talkpages to make things clear, Kim changed strategy. He claimed that my edit on article's talkpage includes private opinion which makes it irrevelant soapbox without a source and deleted it again.
So I've found a few sources and reverted my thread back thinking now everything was going to be OK. But I was wrong. Kim's friend Aunt Entropy deleted my comment again without any explaination. I asked why did he/she do that on users talkpage but he/she simply deleted it!
Please someone tell me how can I check who tagged me? how can I become untagged? and do they have the right to censor article's talkpage? 78.131.137.50 ( talk) 05:45, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi everyone, does it have any reason (maybe a hidden joke) that the one "difficult editor" suddenly becomes plural ("shower them...") right after the first question in the flow chart? ;-) Greetings from Germany —[[[:de:User:JøMa|ˈjøː]] ˌmaˑ] 11:08, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
The guidelines presented in the IMAGE (not the test) are not useful, because 'WikiLove' is not a concept that can be precisely defined and thus different users can take it to mean VERY different things and still be well inside the confines of 'policy'. Well, of course this is not OFFICIAL policy yet, but let's assume it's a consensus. So because of the ambiguity of the term "WikiLove" this chart does more harm than good and I suggest that it's amply reviewed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omulurimaru ( talk • contribs) 13:19, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
The flowchart shown on this page makes a reference to "wikiquette alerts". This Wikipedia process, which was later renamed to Wikiquette Assistance, was closed in 2012. So this should be removed from the flowchart. Kidburla ( talk) 20:03, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
Essays Mid‑impact | ||||||||||
|
Hello everyone. I am from Venezuela so I don`t know if I'll be well received here. I was editing slightly some anime articles so they could have some more information. But it seems that I was involved in some edit war without noticing it. For example, I added information about broadcast details of Monkey Typhoon (to be exact, about its premiere in L.A. countries) but that was just erased. Then, when I read the Talk/Discussion about the anime Kimagure Orange Road, someone said I've removed the information about other languages as this will only snowball and is not important for the English Wikipedia. If people want to learn about the show in other languages, they can click on the interwiki links (as that's what they are for). Which is, then, the case of considering Wikipedia as an encyclopedia if its members are holding it as a mere local Internet magazine? Shouldn't the information be universal? I did no longer make edits in the articles of this Wikipedia because it's calling me vandal (is there any other reason for my contribution deletions?), and I'm trying not to lose my calm. It's boring to make article edits in just one version of Wikipedia (Spanish, in my case), so I want to help in other languages
PS: Sorry if my English script is not perfect. 200.71.186.242 00:02, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm a newbie in need of advice. After happily working on some articles about physics and other noncontroversial subjects, I did some editing on these articles: astrology, horoscope, and Walter Mercado (an astrologer). Now I seem to be getting into "edit wars." Any suggestions on how to handle this? I felt that the original articles were completely credulous about astrology, and lacked any pretense of a neutral point of view. The Walter Mercado article is particularly goofy; if you look at its history, it started out with an anonymous user sticking in a fluffy, adulatory fan piece. Then someone edited it to try to restore a neutal point of view. Then a user came along and changed it back, and then I edited it again. How long does this go on? -- User:Bcrowell
I have to say I originally wrote the Walter Mercado article. Yes, I admire the man, because he is a legend of Puerto Rico and I did not know how to write back then because it was one of my very first articles. But in no way does it look like a fan page in my opinion. I am not personally a fan of his although I do admire him for the aforementioned reason. Tell me, if I attempted to make it look like a fan page would I have talked about his rumored (keep in mind I said rumored, Im not saying he is) homosexuality??
I like the page the way it is now. It looks less point of view and more like an encyclopedia article. As with all other articles I began to write, I will keep the page updated with any new information I get and I hope all over wiki-collaborators do the same.
Thanks and God bless you
Sincerely yours; Antonio I want Pink!! Martin
- - - -
By the way, is the use of a first-person sentence ("I think this is the type of users we don't really want on Wikipedia, and a few have been.") deliberate and ironic? If not, could this sentence itself be rephrased to NPOV?
___
If you are going to talk about "removing" people, lets get rid of this "anyone including you can edit an article now. Because to define "anyone" and then get really specific and say "you" but then employ some technical/legal device and perhaps force to exclude an individual from the category of you could very well provoke someone in a way we don't want to see. If you don't mean anyone, don't say it.
It worries me that this very important subject matter is spread across at least 3 articles.
Wikipedia:Civility,
Wikipedia:Wikiquette and
Wikipedia:Staying cool when the editing gets hot. I don't see this as situation as necessarily bad or redundant in a functional sense. That is, I think it's valuable to have 3 kinds of pages: 1) a succinct cheat-sheet that we can point people to from the Welcome page or in our personal greetings to new users, which I think is the purpose the Wikiquette page serves now. 2) A good cheat sheet that mediators could provide a link to when a talk page discussion heats up, which I think the "Staying cool" page is meant to be. 3) A deeper and more substantiated discussion of civility to which we might direct the philosophically or ideologically uncivil ("Duh, I know how to be polite, but this place is a jungle and so it's jungle rules that I'm going to go by") or anybody who's interested. I think that's what's going on with the "Civility" page. My worry is that with 3 places for people to contribute ideas on Civility, some pages are liable to miss out on some valuable ideas, and our lean-mean cheat sheets about how to be nice will become bloated tomes that just turn away the cranky and make them crankier. To guard against this, I suggest we formally declare these pages a "series" or group of pages, which each acknowledge each other in some prominent and official-looking way. That way, if someone stumbles on what is not quite the right page for their idea or their need, they will know immediately where to go, and likewise would-be mediators will learn that they have a choice of where to point their hypothetical mediatees, and so be able pick the most suitable one. Also if these pages are more prominently connected to one another, someone with a good idea for one of them will be led to consider whether it's a good one for any of the others, and add it, either beefing it up or trimming it down, as appropriate to the page for which the idea is destined. What do people think? 168... 17:35, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Copied from Wikipedia talk:Civility: I suggest that anybody who is interested post responses there. 168... 17:38, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Added "Deletion upsets people and makes them feel they have wasted their time: consider moving their text to a sub-directory of their user pages instead (e.g. saying not quite the right place for it but so they can still use it): much less provocative" this happened in my first 24 hours: set up a duplicate page without checking and wrote lots of stuff on it. Outrage at deletion become contentment with it being moved to my space to see what wasn't duplicated. -- (talk) BozMo 21:00, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
(from WP:RM)
These seem (from a cursory look) to be about the same topic. I think they should be merged; any objections? JesseW 12:55, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
While material contributed to the article space is open for editing by any person, postings to the Talk space are the signed words of specific editors. It is not OK to alter someone else's words and leave their signature on them, since doing so makes it seem that the person wrote something different from what they actually wrote.
Altering someone else's signed words is forgery and misrepresentation. Even if you feel that someone else's words are objectionable, this does not convey to you the right to make it seem that they said something different from what they actually said.
See also Wikipedia talk:Civility#Defacing others' talk comments considered harmful.
-- FOo 22:19, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
From the article, as it goes directly against rather important parts of our code of conduct; the last time I looked, changing others' comments was considered a significant offense. -- Kizor 12:09, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Since it is not official policy, I have requested that SCEGH be merged into Wikipedia:Words of wisdom. →Iñgōlemo← talk 03:42, 2005 May 24 (UTC)
It seems awfully out of place compared to other policy pages, despite containing some useful information. NEMT 16:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello, may I murge the 2 pages together? General Eisenhower 00:04, 25 March 2006 (UTC) Eisenhower official
This is a guideline re-stated as an essay. I can not see the point. I merged the text into Wikipedia:Etiquette, so given that is a "guideline" and this is an "essay", you should check that article to see I've stuffed up any further! You might also notice that article repeats almost word for word much of the content of this article, and both articles have the same message.
As for the merge not having support, 4 sections of the talk page call for a merge with no real objections (though I chose Wikipedia:Etiquette myself as there seem to be a number of pages essentially saying the same thing, and that was the most official / fully developed version). I notice you have not objected to the calls for a merge!
If this page has to stay, at least you have put the essay template on here. There are a number of pages that link to here which imply it is something more. I don't have a problem with essays, but I think ones which simply regurgetate existing policy or guidelines, while not advancing any new arguments, serve only to clutter up the Wikipedia namespace. If this page was about the merits of being civil, or even uncivil, then it would have a place. At the moment it simply states ways to get along with fellow editors, and pushes the POV that it is good to be civil (Note: I am not saying that pushing a POV here is bad, I just think that it should only justify the POV) Also, I feel essays should be marked as such and "feel" like an essay - this feels like a POV semi-official-semi-guideline. Wikipedia:No angry mastodons gets this right - though it also tells us how to be civil (which is repeated elsewhere). Because it is an essay, I always intended to leave it alone! Gareth Aus 08:16, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
I support this merger, as long as the cucumber pictures as included. You've just got to love those pictures, absolutely hilarious
GreatKing 23:09, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
This is the worst possible idea ever. This is an essay. Wikipedia:Etiquette is a policy. Etiquette's page is completely serious, and is not an essay. Why would we get rid of that? This idea is preposterous. -- Rory096 19:06, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
The picture on this page makes no sense. Why do you want to stay cool as a cucumber, let alone a cucumber with secondary-sex characteristics? I suggest a diffrent image, something that gets the point across a bit more? idk - 68.228.33.74 06:12, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
and wheres the resource that says cucumbers are cool? I think thats original research
im just joking :P and i like the pictures
ok, what the hell. People who edit wikipedia usually arent six years old, those cucumbers are just retarded, like WTF! Tubyboulin 22:31, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
I've got to agree with Tubyboulin. The cucumbers make it hard to take the article seriously. It's the first thing you notice on the page, and at first glance I thought it was an alien. I'd be for removing or replacing the images. -- HiEv 06:21, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
I suggest we remove this sentence, or at least reword to it to make it less offensive. Why can't we have "don't be a jerk" instead? StaticElectric 07:02, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
I am a wiki vandal but this page has made me think otherwise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.72.122.3 ( talk) 21:13, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Or whining. Those are common responces one may get when following the advice and "reporting disruptive users to administrators". Thus the flow chart should have one more step: "Does the administrator care"? "Yes - done", "No - try again or go on wikibreak after all". PS. I am an administrator :) -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 22:04, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Please someone answer this. I've been editing a talkpage of a controversive article on climate change denial and minutes later I was tagged as "a possible sibaby sockpuppet". I don't know who tagged me and why. Maybe it's because I used colons for subparagraphs to make better layout which looked as if I was answering myself. Or maybe it's because the person above me was also tagged and someone thought we were the same person. Maybe because I use shared IP. Or maybe tagging system is being abused.
Anyways, soon users KimDabelsteinPetersen and William M. Connolley deleted my comment in discussion panel. It was titled "this article could become neutral". There I gave some editorial ideas they didn't like.
After I contacted them on their talkpages to make things clear, Kim changed strategy. He claimed that my edit on article's talkpage includes private opinion which makes it irrevelant soapbox without a source and deleted it again.
So I've found a few sources and reverted my thread back thinking now everything was going to be OK. But I was wrong. Kim's friend Aunt Entropy deleted my comment again without any explaination. I asked why did he/she do that on users talkpage but he/she simply deleted it!
Please someone tell me how can I check who tagged me? how can I become untagged? and do they have the right to censor article's talkpage? 78.131.137.50 ( talk) 05:45, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi everyone, does it have any reason (maybe a hidden joke) that the one "difficult editor" suddenly becomes plural ("shower them...") right after the first question in the flow chart? ;-) Greetings from Germany —[[[:de:User:JøMa|ˈjøː]] ˌmaˑ] 11:08, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
The guidelines presented in the IMAGE (not the test) are not useful, because 'WikiLove' is not a concept that can be precisely defined and thus different users can take it to mean VERY different things and still be well inside the confines of 'policy'. Well, of course this is not OFFICIAL policy yet, but let's assume it's a consensus. So because of the ambiguity of the term "WikiLove" this chart does more harm than good and I suggest that it's amply reviewed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omulurimaru ( talk • contribs) 13:19, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
The flowchart shown on this page makes a reference to "wikiquette alerts". This Wikipedia process, which was later renamed to Wikiquette Assistance, was closed in 2012. So this should be removed from the flowchart. Kidburla ( talk) 20:03, 30 July 2014 (UTC)