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WikiProject Olympics was featured in a WikiProject Report in the Signpost on February 2010. |
This WikiProject was featured on the WikiProject report at the Signpost on 23 July 2012. |
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Here you can discuss with other users about general questions and issues involving the project. | Here you can be updated on important changes in the workflow status of articles tagged by this project. | Here you can check the project ratings statistics, learn how to assess articles, or request us an assessment. | Here you can follow the project guidelines to help you create, expand, and format articles. | Here you can ask the project membership to perform a review on any of its tagged articles. |
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To start a new discussion section, please click here |
I was just reading the Individual Neutral Athletes at the 2024 Summer Olympics, when i saw that some user(s) have been adding a "from" column in every sport's section to differentiate the Russian athletes from Belarusian ones. This also includes flags of both the countries. But doesn't it violates the neutral nature of the this team. I do not think we should include the country from which these athletes hail from and especially not the flags. Also, are we going to list ANI as a precursor of Russia at the all time medal table. PrinceofPunjab TALK 06:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
several country origins (with nationality/flags) | one country origin (no nationality) |
---|---|
|
|
Is there a non-clunky way to indicate what country they typically represent while still making clear that at this time they're not allowed to? Like perhaps "primary NOC" or something of that nature? Greenday61892 ( talk) 14:49, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
Historical changes: ...The other ex-Soviet republics participated as a "unified team", although the winners were honoured under the flags of their own republics.At the opening ceremony, the flags of the former post-Soviet states were also be displayed and their names are be announced in the stadium -> Barcelona 1992 Opening Ceremony (Full Length) - youtube (linked with timestamp 1h18m8s for the Unified team in the IOC's official YouTube channel)
A competitor who is a national of two or more countries at the same time may represent either one of them, as he may elect. However, after having represented one country in the Olympic Games, in continental or regional games or in world or regional championships recognised by the relevant IF, he may not represent another country unless certain circumstances.
n this sense, it is informative to know that these, athletes starting for (AIN) in 2024 with Belarusian or Russian passports, are not eligible to start for another country NOC.- except it isn't. Adding 'country of origin' doesn't tell any reader anything about the IOC rules, which you're also misrepresenting if that's what you take from it. In reality, so many athletes change NOC affiliation, because (as you note but then seem to ignore) it just means you have to eligible through any means and not compete for another nation for an Olympic cycle. Neutral athletes are only locked in to the Neutral team for the single instance of the Olympic Games that the compete as Neutral athletes.
we have a dozen other articles where athletes 'from' various nations - who all competed at an event as neutral individuals representing no nation - are listed without mention of any nationality. - Kingsif (talk) 23:14, 16 April 2024 (UTC)-> Not true. the country origin/nationality always mentioned, if it is a special NOC, where various Ahtletes from different countries are involved (see table in the discussion):
"There will be many athletes who have never been to the Olympics before, so they've never represented any NOC. ... And since there's plenty athletes who represent NOCs of nations they weren't born in, we can't effectively assume and OR say that given the chance they would represent Russia or Belarus" -Kingsif (talk) 21:37, 17 April 2024 (UTC)-> The participation jn continental or regional games or in world or regional championships recognised by the relevant IF, already decides your affiliation. And again it is not the place of birth, which is taken into account, it is the nationality.
it just means you have to eligible through any means and not compete for another nation for an Olympic cycle.... It's simply untrue to suggest that where they were born provides limitations on what NOC they can represent. -Kingsif (talk) 23:40, 1 May 2024 (UTC)-> The athlete must be naturalized in this country to change to another NOC and again false claim with place of birth. Example:
yes, the flags are really not necessary. But I would keep the information about nationality. Miria~01 (talk) 13:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Please stop making false accusations against me (e.g not once place of birth was mentioned by me or another user; only by you) and get your facts right. You have repeatedly made false assumptions about the IOC rules (e.g. switching NOC without to be naturalized) as well not shown knowledge about interaction with the international sports federations. And now you trying to push through your agenda by accusing me. I would also prefer a total exclusion of all Russian and Belarusian athletes (as the World Athletics has decided for the Olympic Games), but I would never put encyclopedic added value information above my personal views. Miria~01 ( talk) 23:48, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
Individual sailors of Russian and Belarusian sporting nationality and their support persons, as defined in the Racing Rules of Sailing (“Support Persons”) shall only participate in the events listed in Clause 2.1 in a neutral capacity, and in no case as representatives of the Russian Federation or the Republic of Belarus, their Member National Associations (“MNA(s)”) or National Olympic Committees (“NOC(s)”.Miria~01 ( talk) 09:26, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Kingsif:
It would be consistent to all other Olympic Wikipedia articles when specifying the nationalities for the special delegations in the tables, if they are represented by athletes of different nationalities. The information always corresponds to the nationality registered with the international sports federation and the associated NOC. The special delegations are not NOCs per se, but are made up of athletes whose registered nationality and the associated membership with this to a NOC, represent an obstacle to taking part in the Olympic Games. Mostly because their NOC has been banned or ceased to exist due to other circumstances, e.g. Dissolution of the Netherlands Antilles. Therefore the indication of nationality is of interest to the reader as the direct indication in the article allows them to see directly how many athletes of the respective NOC are affected and also the respective athlete himself without clicking through many articles. Some examples:
Miria~01 ( talk) 00:25, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
The suggestion is to move
Football at the 2024 Summer Olympics group tables from articles such as
Group A,
Group B,
Group C &
Group D to a common template in order to enable {{
#invoke:Sports table}}
functionalities such as showteam
, in the same way other football competitions do.
Examples:
In a different yet related issue, if the suggestion is accepted, the same restructuring could be done for the {{
Football box}} templates in order to enable template functionalities such as bg
, or even result
if switched to {{
Football box collapsible}}.
CLalgo (
talk) 10:14, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
There's a discussion at Articles for deletion/Georges_Charmoille that may be of interest to this group. He's a 1906 Intercalated Games medallist in gymnastics. Oblivy ( talk) 13:34, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
Winter Olympic Games has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 ( talk) 17:54, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
Since the discussion was initiated in the United States at the Olympics ( discussion) , all disciplines should be listed individually or, as has been the case so far, grouped for some sports and their disciplines together in the sport itself.
In this specific case it's about Cycling and Canoeing. The disciplines for Cycling (Track cycling, Road cycling, BMX racing, BMX freestyle, Mountain biking) and Canoeing (Canoe sprint,Slalom canoeing) were listed individually in the table unlike to other NOC articles .I changed these in
United States at the Olympics for consistency, but I suspect that other opinions should be heard here to prevent an edit war, as it was reverted by @
Monerals -> misunderstanding here, not intentional, question still remains.
And if we really want to list strictly according to disciplines, should we then orientate on the Olympic sports table and, for example, also list the equestrian disciplines (dressage, eventing, jumping) individually in the Medals by sport table? The only exceptions so far are only four sports, where the disciplines grouped together in the medal table:
Miria~01 ( talk) 10:08, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Nimrodbr:
Disciplines separated (all with genuine team sports) |
Disciplines combined |
---|---|
|
|
One could argue that the disciplines are always listed separately, if the sport includes a genuine team sport. This also applies to aquatics with water polo. Or in this way: Only all real team sports and their disciplines are listed separately and aquatics is also considered an exception by consensus. ... And disciplines of winter sports should always be listed separately. Miria~01 ( talk) 12:00, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm thinking about rerunning this one in late July at WP:Today's featured article. It was promoted to FA back in 2005, but I've run some automated checks on the article that turned out fine, and people have done a good job keeping up with questions on the talk page. It reads well. Yes, no? - Dank ( push to talk) 01:34, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
FYI Template:OlympicEventRow ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.244.143 ( talk) 04:15, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Olympics Project‑class | |||||||
|
WikiProject Olympics was featured in a WikiProject Report in the Signpost on February 2010. |
This WikiProject was featured on the WikiProject report at the Signpost on 23 July 2012. |
This WikiProject has been
mentioned by a media organization:
|
Discussion | Alerts | Assessment | Manual of Style | Peer review |
---|---|---|---|---|
Here you can discuss with other users about general questions and issues involving the project. | Here you can be updated on important changes in the workflow status of articles tagged by this project. | Here you can check the project ratings statistics, learn how to assess articles, or request us an assessment. | Here you can follow the project guidelines to help you create, expand, and format articles. | Here you can ask the project membership to perform a review on any of its tagged articles. |
|
|
To start a new discussion section, please click here |
I was just reading the Individual Neutral Athletes at the 2024 Summer Olympics, when i saw that some user(s) have been adding a "from" column in every sport's section to differentiate the Russian athletes from Belarusian ones. This also includes flags of both the countries. But doesn't it violates the neutral nature of the this team. I do not think we should include the country from which these athletes hail from and especially not the flags. Also, are we going to list ANI as a precursor of Russia at the all time medal table. PrinceofPunjab TALK 06:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
several country origins (with nationality/flags) | one country origin (no nationality) |
---|---|
|
|
Is there a non-clunky way to indicate what country they typically represent while still making clear that at this time they're not allowed to? Like perhaps "primary NOC" or something of that nature? Greenday61892 ( talk) 14:49, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
Historical changes: ...The other ex-Soviet republics participated as a "unified team", although the winners were honoured under the flags of their own republics.At the opening ceremony, the flags of the former post-Soviet states were also be displayed and their names are be announced in the stadium -> Barcelona 1992 Opening Ceremony (Full Length) - youtube (linked with timestamp 1h18m8s for the Unified team in the IOC's official YouTube channel)
A competitor who is a national of two or more countries at the same time may represent either one of them, as he may elect. However, after having represented one country in the Olympic Games, in continental or regional games or in world or regional championships recognised by the relevant IF, he may not represent another country unless certain circumstances.
n this sense, it is informative to know that these, athletes starting for (AIN) in 2024 with Belarusian or Russian passports, are not eligible to start for another country NOC.- except it isn't. Adding 'country of origin' doesn't tell any reader anything about the IOC rules, which you're also misrepresenting if that's what you take from it. In reality, so many athletes change NOC affiliation, because (as you note but then seem to ignore) it just means you have to eligible through any means and not compete for another nation for an Olympic cycle. Neutral athletes are only locked in to the Neutral team for the single instance of the Olympic Games that the compete as Neutral athletes.
we have a dozen other articles where athletes 'from' various nations - who all competed at an event as neutral individuals representing no nation - are listed without mention of any nationality. - Kingsif (talk) 23:14, 16 April 2024 (UTC)-> Not true. the country origin/nationality always mentioned, if it is a special NOC, where various Ahtletes from different countries are involved (see table in the discussion):
"There will be many athletes who have never been to the Olympics before, so they've never represented any NOC. ... And since there's plenty athletes who represent NOCs of nations they weren't born in, we can't effectively assume and OR say that given the chance they would represent Russia or Belarus" -Kingsif (talk) 21:37, 17 April 2024 (UTC)-> The participation jn continental or regional games or in world or regional championships recognised by the relevant IF, already decides your affiliation. And again it is not the place of birth, which is taken into account, it is the nationality.
it just means you have to eligible through any means and not compete for another nation for an Olympic cycle.... It's simply untrue to suggest that where they were born provides limitations on what NOC they can represent. -Kingsif (talk) 23:40, 1 May 2024 (UTC)-> The athlete must be naturalized in this country to change to another NOC and again false claim with place of birth. Example:
yes, the flags are really not necessary. But I would keep the information about nationality. Miria~01 (talk) 13:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Please stop making false accusations against me (e.g not once place of birth was mentioned by me or another user; only by you) and get your facts right. You have repeatedly made false assumptions about the IOC rules (e.g. switching NOC without to be naturalized) as well not shown knowledge about interaction with the international sports federations. And now you trying to push through your agenda by accusing me. I would also prefer a total exclusion of all Russian and Belarusian athletes (as the World Athletics has decided for the Olympic Games), but I would never put encyclopedic added value information above my personal views. Miria~01 ( talk) 23:48, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
Individual sailors of Russian and Belarusian sporting nationality and their support persons, as defined in the Racing Rules of Sailing (“Support Persons”) shall only participate in the events listed in Clause 2.1 in a neutral capacity, and in no case as representatives of the Russian Federation or the Republic of Belarus, their Member National Associations (“MNA(s)”) or National Olympic Committees (“NOC(s)”.Miria~01 ( talk) 09:26, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Kingsif:
It would be consistent to all other Olympic Wikipedia articles when specifying the nationalities for the special delegations in the tables, if they are represented by athletes of different nationalities. The information always corresponds to the nationality registered with the international sports federation and the associated NOC. The special delegations are not NOCs per se, but are made up of athletes whose registered nationality and the associated membership with this to a NOC, represent an obstacle to taking part in the Olympic Games. Mostly because their NOC has been banned or ceased to exist due to other circumstances, e.g. Dissolution of the Netherlands Antilles. Therefore the indication of nationality is of interest to the reader as the direct indication in the article allows them to see directly how many athletes of the respective NOC are affected and also the respective athlete himself without clicking through many articles. Some examples:
Miria~01 ( talk) 00:25, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
The suggestion is to move
Football at the 2024 Summer Olympics group tables from articles such as
Group A,
Group B,
Group C &
Group D to a common template in order to enable {{
#invoke:Sports table}}
functionalities such as showteam
, in the same way other football competitions do.
Examples:
In a different yet related issue, if the suggestion is accepted, the same restructuring could be done for the {{
Football box}} templates in order to enable template functionalities such as bg
, or even result
if switched to {{
Football box collapsible}}.
CLalgo (
talk) 10:14, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
There's a discussion at Articles for deletion/Georges_Charmoille that may be of interest to this group. He's a 1906 Intercalated Games medallist in gymnastics. Oblivy ( talk) 13:34, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
Winter Olympic Games has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 ( talk) 17:54, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
Since the discussion was initiated in the United States at the Olympics ( discussion) , all disciplines should be listed individually or, as has been the case so far, grouped for some sports and their disciplines together in the sport itself.
In this specific case it's about Cycling and Canoeing. The disciplines for Cycling (Track cycling, Road cycling, BMX racing, BMX freestyle, Mountain biking) and Canoeing (Canoe sprint,Slalom canoeing) were listed individually in the table unlike to other NOC articles .I changed these in
United States at the Olympics for consistency, but I suspect that other opinions should be heard here to prevent an edit war, as it was reverted by @
Monerals -> misunderstanding here, not intentional, question still remains.
And if we really want to list strictly according to disciplines, should we then orientate on the Olympic sports table and, for example, also list the equestrian disciplines (dressage, eventing, jumping) individually in the Medals by sport table? The only exceptions so far are only four sports, where the disciplines grouped together in the medal table:
Miria~01 ( talk) 10:08, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Nimrodbr:
Disciplines separated (all with genuine team sports) |
Disciplines combined |
---|---|
|
|
One could argue that the disciplines are always listed separately, if the sport includes a genuine team sport. This also applies to aquatics with water polo. Or in this way: Only all real team sports and their disciplines are listed separately and aquatics is also considered an exception by consensus. ... And disciplines of winter sports should always be listed separately. Miria~01 ( talk) 12:00, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm thinking about rerunning this one in late July at WP:Today's featured article. It was promoted to FA back in 2005, but I've run some automated checks on the article that turned out fine, and people have done a good job keeping up with questions on the talk page. It reads well. Yes, no? - Dank ( push to talk) 01:34, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
FYI Template:OlympicEventRow ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.244.143 ( talk) 04:15, 4 June 2024 (UTC)