This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Hari S. Kartha could use some help. The article needs sources, but I don't know where to look. I found a reference for his being the editor of Janmabhumi newspaper, but couldn't find more. I'm guessing the needed sources would be offline or not in the English language. Cloveapple ( talk) 01:09, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Bonfire Night (disambiguation)#Requested move. Trevj ( talk) 23:35, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Bonfire Night#Requested move. Trevj ( talk) 23:35, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names)/Archives/2011/July#Places in India.
I think India is big enough to use the same convention of disambiguation with levels below country and not with country as do Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, South Africa, the United Kingdom and the United States. The all use "X, statename", "X, territoryname" or similar if disambiguation is needed. If no disambiguation is needed, the articles on localities in India can use the plain place name of course. So no mandatory disambiguation as is done with the US. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 16:01, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (India):
I suggest that places in India use the state or district for disambiguation and not "India". India is such a large country, 2nd most populous, that it will be much more clear to use a lower level. Otherwise, it would be like using "Europe" for places in Europe.
A list of places that would need renaming is at Talk:List_of_cities_and_towns_in_India#Analysis_of_disambiguation_tags.
If these are renamed, all articles left as "X, India" should be set index articles, as in Category:Set indices on populated places in India. This is good for automatic checking with bots. Bots could even create these set index pages.
Maybe you can reply at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (India). Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 14:58, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
The set index page Begar, India has been deleted. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 16:00, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
What can be done to prevent such deletions? Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 16:05, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
These are WP:NOTDAB but WP:SIA pages. And there is a lot of use in these SIA pages, e.g. see Hosur, India - several India templates linked to Hosur, but meant Hosur's in more than a dozen different districts. I collected this information, so people can take more care with their links in the future. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 16:16, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Ok, you disagree with Rameshwaram, but why got Begar, India deleted? I repeat SIA are not DAB pages. And one does not need to disambiguate to create SIA pages, these are separate matters. SIA pages, if they are at "X, India" are completely separate from the article names. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 16:44, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
See Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (India). Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 16:46, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
There appears to be a goodly amount of media coverage of abuse of Phensedyl (cough syrup) in South Asia. Rather than just a passing mention in India/Nepal/Bangladesh legal/drug/health articles, might it be best to centralise it to Phensedyl (currenly a redirect to the chemical article Promethazine), or DAB it as Phensedyl abuse or similar? This appears to be one of those topics where it might be easily overlooked academically, but yet still has enough media/NGO coverage to cover its social impact. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 17:21, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Not speaking Hindi, and having been confused by many of the zoo names that I have been dealing with, I went to the dictionary. Shouldn't this be rendered (in the English WikiPedia) as Sanjay Ghandi Biological Park to be more understandable to English speakers? Donlammers ( talk) 17:46, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
I noticed the above page in the GOCE backlogs and went to work on copy editing. However, the prose is so confusing that I don't know where to begin with it. If a member of this group could give me a hand in understanding what was written, then I would be most grateful. If not, then I will have to try my hardest to go through the article and clean it up. Please drop me a line on my talk page if there is anyone willing to help. -- Skamecrazy123 ( talk) 21:12, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
I have been informed that I should seek permission before bannering an article to your WikiProject. So, should Algar, Uttara Kannada have a WPINDIA banner? 65.93.15.213 ( talk) 04:40, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
Aurel Stein's work on Kalhana refers to a "tribe" that he called the Lavanyas. Although that is a common enough name for a person, I can't find an article about the tribe. Has the name evolved into something else during the last century? They would have been in the Kashmir/Lohar area. - Sitush ( talk) 17:39, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
I think it is fairly well known that the output of Gyan Publishers/ISHA Books is very dodgy from a Wikipedia POV (and perhaps, for them, from a legal POV also). Their reprints are often mangled but it is the modern works that present the real issues.
I have long had doubts about Anmol Publishers and MD Publications. Both of these I have now found to have blatantly used content without attribution on at least one instance, albeit from a 1900 source. These have been published as if they were written by the author named on the cover but in fact include huge "copyvios" of Aurel Stein, with the very occasional word changed. So, beware of:
It is quite amusing to see how GBooks thinks that Gupta has been cited all over the place: that is because the sentences it has indexed are ripped off from other, older works!
Maybe these are already known to be "dodgy" for our purposes, but if not then they are now. - Sitush ( talk) 19:42, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
Is Shri Krishniji another name for Krishna ? I have the feeling that the -ji is a belief-oriented suffix. - Sitush ( talk) 01:16, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Wrong venue; please follow WP:DR. Salvio Let's talk about it! 11:21, 21 July 2011 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
I had content disputes with user talk:Sitush. He put a sock investigation against me for my trouble. I expressed my displeasure about it on his talk page. He simply removed my edit calling it a troll. He has forced my hand when I wished to keep it bi-lateral. It is easy to take action against Indian editors. That he could not hang me for socking, is because I guess socking is a technical thing needs machines whom you can trust to be unbiased. I cannot be sure when an issue would be dealt by humans. We have one editor already cooling his heels in the slammer. I have also read that certain admins slaughter hundreds of new Indian editors for nationatialist pov. What is this page going to do about this malise? I'm using Noticeboard for India-related topics as it is very much an India related issue. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 02:22, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
|
I see that review is pending for Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Piyush_Pandey. While it seems to be a reasonably well-written article for someone who is contributing on Wikipedia for the first time, I find it tragic that most reviewers there seem to be working as gatekeepers rather than enablers. It reads far better than most stubs. I believe that we should keenly follow AFCs for articles with India focus and help review/ enrich the same. People who are usually active in AFC or those otherwise interested in Indian articles on Wikipedia may please weigh in. -- Gurubrahma ( talk) 17:23, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
There are several India-related articles (e.g. 1891 Census of the United Provinces, Bihar famine of 1873–74) that link to United Provinces, which is a disambig page. I'm trying to disambiguate that link, but the best candidate, United Provinces of Agra and Oudh, didn't come into existence until 1902. So can anyone clarify what these inks are referring to? Colonies Chris ( talk) 21:50, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Another related question: the article United Province should properly be titled United Provinces, I think, as the plural form appears to be the official name. But this would bring it into conflict with the disambig page that already exists at that location. Would it be acceptable to rename it to something more specific, such as "United Provinces (1937-1947)"? Colonies Chris ( talk) 10:25, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Do Senior Advocates in India meet the requirements of Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Politicians? I rather think that the position is a "state-wide office" and so would scrape through on these inherent grounds. - Sitush ( talk) 12:53, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
There are ca 638,000 villages and more than 5100 towns, for details see states and territories of India. With 640 districts that leads to more than 1000 villages/towns per district on average. Only 10 districts have ambiguous names within India. So it could help a lot to use the district as the default disambiguator for all the villages if disambiguation is needed.
Would like to hear your feedback at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (India)#Disambiguation by district. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 04:17, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
With 43 mio people on average per state, the area defined by the primary dab term is far way off from what is done in other countries. Analysis at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (India)#Disambiguation by state or district compared with dab in other countries. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 14:40, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk:Tirthankar#Requested move -> has not seen any traffic. So please weigh in. Arjun codename024 08:15, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Does WP:INDIA have an IRC channel? WP:MILHIST does, and I think WP:INDIA would benefit from one too. It would provide more fluidity to discussions. Office of Disinformation 12:36, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Please refer to the discussions at Talk:Lata Mangeshkar. Please give your views there or here. - Animeshkulkarni ( talk) 11:01, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
For start, we have begun with Lata's songs. So now you can help here....
User:Animeshkulkarni/List of songs by Lata Mangeshkar. -
Animeshkulkarni (
talk) 12:15, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
A discussion here on the naming of Indian populated places ( Crusoe8181 ( talk) 07:31, 21 July 2011 (UTC)).
Removed template, place only a link: Template:Ambiguous names of populated places in India.
Tinucherian created templates for populated places (labeled villages/towns) in Karnataka, they can be found at Category:Karnataka district templates. They are quite large and I think should be replaced in the future, maybe on taluk level. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 12:37, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
With 43 mio people on average per state, the area defined by the primary dab term is far way off from what is done in other countries. Analysis at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (India)#Disambiguation by state or district compared with dab in other countries.
I also have seen that some articles have even been directly created with the taluka as disambiguator, i.e. even below the district. In light of that, I wonder why we cannot drop the states and use at least the districts. UP has 199,581,477 inhabitants, all other countries in the analysis are more precise with their dab terms. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 14:41, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
This disgusting trend of "if you dont agree with me, you are anti-Indian" accusations has to stop. This is wikipedia not a rediff/Times of India comment board where people throw infantile accusations at each other. Editors who have spent thousands of hours creating and maintaining India related content are being attacked by talk page warriors of being "anti-India". This sort of behaviour has to end now.-- Sodabottle ( talk) 08:24, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Sodabottle: you shut me up when I brought the subject up the last time, forget terminology, forget what someone said to another, some time. How do you see persistant remarks to the effect (not verbatim), plague from India is ruining Wikipedia, caste warriors, pov indian nationalists, facists. Soda a bloke thinks I am omni-present, I called him incompetent, another fellow on the Ezava talk page too called him that, he doesn't seem to understant that we are not socks, his edits are in-comptent. Why is this fellow given such a long rope? This guy even reverted article talk page edits. (2)Soda would you have got away with the things that are said on the Gandhi move, say on the British Empire page? Let us not indulge in wp:OSE. Treat each case on merit is all I say. You joined cause with him on the India talk page, I say you are free to take any side as I am, take it on merit. If you have some issue with me please discuss, the attack on me was unwarrented, on India page and here. There is a lot of talk on meat-sock would you give me a few solid reasons why Mohanstutter Karamwhatnot Gandhi can't be moved to Mahatma Gandhi?? Please Soda you are free to ignore everything and I would not hold it against you, but for every word you put in prepare to back it with a diff. You too have the same previlege of course. New eyes looking at this: For starters see the arguments against the move to Mahatma Gandhi, one fellow there feels that it would be the fall of another colonial bastion, he argues that nationalist freaks are pushing the move. That the move would besmear Wikipedia. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 09:39, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
@MV - you suggested include the word "bias" [2]. @Soda - thanks for saying that three people are from India. I don't know who they are, you are one - ok. For the record, "anti-Indian" within this thread is your words. I posed a question and it got answered a little bit. The bias maybe does not come from outside. We have now clear out, that you, from Tamil Nadu have no problem with " , Tamil Nadu" as the default. But you write "it should depend on the repetition of place names and the necessity for disambig" - well, if disambiguation is needed for places in India it is mostly because they are ambiguous within India. This is different to the Anglo-sphere countries Canada, US, UK, NZ, Australia. Due to my initiative it was already agreed that ", India" does not help a lot and that we would use at least the state level. The next thing I observed is that place names if they conflict most often conflict within states. So the thing is that ", statename" is of no big help either. You simply say it is not - well, this is not very constructive. You also say "I have even provided you with names of other editors who are experienced in geographical articles and can provide more input." - But they did not. And I think they did not spend so much time on cities, towns and villages as I did the last days. And it was not them that created the 204 SIA pages collected at Category:Set indices on populated places in India. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 13:33, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
@YK I don't know about Kurmi and Ganges. @All Currently I am talking about disambiguation. I had no other explanation than that people may come from outside India. The thing is that people who actually created articles sometimes used the taluka. The "anti" thing was solved and was between me and rgpk - this is done and was gone. @Soda, you bring it back. Using "Bias" is simply one assumption, I didn't say there is one, I marked it as a question. If asking questions regarding "bias" is not allowed in your world, then yours is different to mine. It's not about only that I didn't like something, but I also provided more data. You ignored the data so far. Maybe this is a bias because you are from Tamil Nadu or have not much knowledge about place names in India - I don't know. Maybe in Tamil Nadu there are less naming conflicts. What is bad with the word "bias"? But back to the issue at hand, I want to improve the naming of the articles on geography of India. Here are facts:
Someone above suggested I should contact an editor who, as that someone claimed, knows more about geographic topics. (Not exactly the wording but something like that.) I did contact that person. There is bias. To say that a county like West Sussex having 781,600 inhabitants and 1,991 km2 is equivalent to the average Indian state having 43,221,071 inhabitants (factor 55) and 117,402 km2 (factor 60) and explicitly not to the average Indian district having 1,890,922 inhabitants (factor 2.4) 5,136 km2 (factor 2.6) /is/ bias as far as I understand. Give me a better term if you have one. 2.5 West Sussex would make up a district. So this county is not even half of what a district is and of cause it is by no means equivalent in power to the average Indian state.
So what are we going to do, I simply do not understand why articles on Indian geography shall use a more complicated system than the UK, Ireland and France. The article quality is going to suffer from this. The district system is a well established one, districts exists in all Indian states. Even with districts the precision is less than with the UK counties. So one could also look whether to use tehsils/taluks/talukas/mandals or equivalent. But this is less unique and I am not aware how many of these units are named ambiguously itself. Please anyone opposing the district system for disambiguation explain why India shall have a more complicated setup. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 21:52, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
I would venture to guess that everyone is totally fine with "here are many ambiguous place names which need addressing." We're just concerned about any implications that India is being treated as "inferior", that there's some concious or unconcious diminishing of India by how its articles are being filed. By "lag of awareness", what do you mean exactly? Lack of awareness for how many similar/same Indian place-names need to be DAB'ed? Or some general lack of awareness of India? I maybe need to go look at the actual discussions more, but in all honesty I'm baffled as to how issues of systemic bias and discrimination could be plausibly interfering with a geo-DAB discussion. It's not like anyone wants people to have a harder time filing India articles. My suggestion: I would really avoid the "Germany uses X system, is India less important than Germany?!?!?!" and instead use angles like "Germany has some really clear DABs using X system, I think that would work great for India too, how about we use that?" MatthewVanitas ( talk) 16:46, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
I wish to bring your notice to the various "around" categories created for Hindu temples. Some of them are:
Now, should we let these ambiguous templates remain here or should we tag them for deletion. Now, X from Chennai might feel that Kumbakonam is somewhere "around" Thanjavur, while Y from Bangalore might feel that Tiruchirappalli is somewhere "around" Thanjavur and Z from Delhi might have the notion that Thanjavur is situated somewhere "around" Chennai. I feel that these categories could very well be removed, instead, temples could be classified on basis of the districts in which they are situated.- The Enforcer Office of the secret service 07:03, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
I've created one for Hindu temples in Thanjavur district. Your opinions solicited.- The Enforcer Office of the secret service
Yes, by district please for geographic organization. Side note: people were so strongly opposing using ", DistrictName" if disambiguation is needed anyway, I now wonder what is up with Kalyanasundaresar Temple, Nallur, Mahalingeswarar Temple, Thiruvidaimarudur, Veetrirundha Perumal Temple, Veppathur none of these have any content at the plain name. I would vote for dropping the district name in these cases. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 15:11, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
Are tributes allowed in wikipedia pages? for example U. Srinivas Mallya
- djds4rce
Started talk at Talk:Hyderabad,_India#Hyderabad.2C_Andhra_Pradesh_and_WP:BIAS. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 12:02, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
What can I do to perform better in the interest of WP India?
Whenever errors were pointed out I tried to correct them and to change my behavior. The recent things I simply do not understand. I acted in good faith and followed consensus.
What else can I do?
Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 16:01, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
Link: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2011_July_27#NEW_NOMINATIONS. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 17:00, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
I've run across several articles, with Mahyavanshi being a good example, on Indian groups that were for a period not at all considered to be Rajput, and then sometime during the Raj did some research (I'm trying to be NPOV here and not say "research"), found out that they were actually Rajput, and agitated politically for such with varying degrees of success. I would argue that this trend of Rajput re-discovery, like Kshatriya agitation, Sanskritisation overall, etc. is quite fascinating and notable, but is there any way we can actually have a category to contain such groups? Failing that, is there a good term for "Rajput rediscovery" that we can do a basic article on, and in that article list such groups? I also don't know if the people covering Rajput topics are annoyed that all these claimant groups are simply placed in Category:Rajputs currently. Any thoughts on how to best organise this material to reflect the above? MatthewVanitas ( talk) 14:34, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
"while varna was generally accepted as the basis for identity, on the whole little agreement prevailed with respect to the place of the individual and the jati within a varna hierarchy. Srinivas, describing social relations in the mid-twentieth century, regarded such a “lack of clarity in the hierarchy” as “one of the most striking features of the caste system,” adding that “it is this ambiguity which makes it possible for a caste to rise in the hierarchy.”[30] Such ambiguity only becomes a striking feature, however, when observers expect to see the opposite, that is, a complete congruity between theory (varna) and practice (jati). Such expectations were increasingly palpable in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, when India became for nascent (imperial) anthropology a “laboratory of mankind,” wherein scientific methods of observation (anthropometry among them) were expected to produce clear and straightforward sociological (and racial) patterns that conformed to varna-derived theories."
Is there something like Rajputism? What would be the top category? Because to have Rajputs and inside Rajput people and Rajput clans looks weird to me. Since I assume a Rajput to be a person. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 20:13, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
@MV if you subcate'd 100 articles that's great. No, I explicitly like cats for individuals and those for groups. Only the naming is little confusing since to me mostly Rajputs = Rajput people. Maybe "Individual Rajputs"? All in all I have not much interest in that area, just saw it on the NB and wanted to give some feedback. No idea why not having them in subcats. Hoppla! Now I look at Category:Rajputs - this is real clean now. Much more inviting to read! Thumbs up! Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 01:15, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
There are many such lists that read like a directory and contain few blue links. I don't know what to do with them. Suggestions? Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 06:59, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
By the way, I posted at Wikiproject Pakistan a week ago. No response. I won't bother at the other countries mentioned. This sort of pruning is per policy, and if consensus is formed here, I will proceed. Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 08:11, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Although WP:NOTDIR sounds right, it doesn't actually forbid such lists. But, WP:V does, and it has teeth. I am leaning toward boldly pruning these lists down to bluelinks. If someone wants to restore content, then it would probably only be redlinks, and on the grounds that they " could plausibly" become articles. Then, the onus will be on them to dig up info on that redlink to show that the institution exists and may be notable enough.
SpacemanSpiff makes the good point that many blacklinks are actually blue, but are unlinked. I would be happy, as a precaution, to test the list in a sandbox by adding temporary links to all items to see which come up blue.
I would like to know if anyone intends on challenging the pruning of these lists done in this way? Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 00:07, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
I'm going to mull it over for a while. Other views are more than welcome. Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 06:12, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
FYI Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Naming conventions (India) - Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 14:54, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi,
Need comments for ongoing discussion [{Talk:Nair#Lede_section | here]]. Thanks. ..असक्तः सततं कार्य कर्म समाचर | असक्तः हि आचरन् कर्म.. Humour Thisthat2011 15:48, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Also need comments on another discussion here. Thanks. ..असक्तः सततं कार्य कर्म समाचर | असक्तः हि आचरन् कर्म.. Humour Thisthat2011 16:26, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
The article bulbul tarang has no local-language spellings in its lede; does anyone know how to spell this in Hindi and Urdu? MatthewVanitas ( talk) 16:51, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
MV, Office of disinformation has the correct Hindi or Devnagari script spelling. Having said that, my father played the instrument in his childhood ( 1930s/40), however, he used the Japanese name, however, my cousin who played it in 1960s and 70s called in bulbul tarang. My father thought,, the instruments were identical. hope this helps. Jonathansammy ( talk) 16:31, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
बुलबुल तरंग. This is the only spelling you can have in Dev nagari script used for writing Hindi, Marathi , Sanskrit and Nepali languages. I could not find any official site for the spellings, however check the following link. [3]. In Marathi and Hindi, Bulbul stands for nightingale and Tarang for harmony or wave Jonathansammy ( talk) 02:52, 30 July 2011 (UTC). Check these out [4] [5] Jonathansammy ( talk) 03:13, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Banned editor, Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Tobias Conradi |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
) SpacemanSpiff brought up the following at my talk: "Please stop" your page moves citing WP:NCINDIA. Most people have opposed your version of things and now moving articles randomly citing an unaccepted proposal as guideline is not on. Please establish consensus first and then do what consensus dictates. — Spaceman Spiff 13:50, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
@Sitush "No knowledge of the detail, but Wikipedia is a community and relies on consensus. Put simply, if you cannot deal with that basis then leaving may well be the solution. I hope that it does not come to that, however." - Why do you say such things to me. I enforced consensus by moving Hyderabad, India back to Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh. It is SpacemanSpiff who moved to a name that had no "official" agreement. He is the one randomly moving single articles. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 08:49, 29 July 2011 (UTC) On going accusations by SpacemanSpiffOn my talk: "Page moves" ... This is the last time I'm going to ask you to stop moving pages incorrecfly claiming consensus or under the cover of a guideline that doesn't exist. — Spaceman Spiff 06:36, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
Started talk at Talk:Hyderabad,_India#Hyderabad.2C_Andhra_Pradesh_and_WP:BIAS. No need for drama, shouting and vague accusations. Simply stick to the facts. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 12:12, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
I am leaving.My plan was to greatly improve the quality of the articles related to Indian geography. But if people bring me to WP:ANI and tell false things about me, allegations that I acted against consensus, allegations that I accuse everybody of being biased... I never did these things. I started creating WP:SIA pages, so far I only got 260, the plan was to get to 1000 in the next month. This would have massively helped to avoid ambiguity in links. SpacemanSpiff and Crusoe8181 did win. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 21:00, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
|
Readers here may be interested in contributing to the discussion at Talk:2008 Mumbai terrorist attacks#Requesting Move 2. Cheers. - GTBacchus( talk) 02:20, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Inside Category:Villages in India when scanning two levels below, there are 48 articles using "X (village)". I only checked the first three with http://censusindia.gov.in/PopulationFinder/Population_Finder.aspx and all are ambiguous.
What do SpacemanSpiff and his crew think of how to fix this any time soon? Do SpacemanSpiff and his crew think that I should really file all these by WP:RM and bother the people over there with such stuff, especially admins who have really things to do that are of more importance - in my opinion? I also do not see why this would be against any policy, if I would disambiguate them, but last time when I moved a page SpacemanSpiff got angry and brought me up to ANI and some people here seem to support this.
I find it really strange, why moves that I do in accordance with WP policies are singled out, while others are free to follow WP policies and SpacemanSpiff even is allowed to violate policies. - update does not matter.
Bogdan Nagachop (
talk) 15:13, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 13:50, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Bogdan, you have some really good points, as you often do, but again you're compromising yourself by getting caught in the personal. I would respectfully submit you consider US President Teddy Roosevelt's adage "speak softly and carry a big stick". If you argue about conflict, there will be more conflict. If you are keeping a level head, communicating smoothly (speaking softly), and feel there's honestly misbehaviour, take a very neutrally worded and dispassionate argument to ANI (your "big stick"). Otherwise, I suggest you play your strong suits with the very good analysis you're providing. I am not closely tracking the debate, but your concerns about such comments as "nobody knows where Andhra Pradesh is" are quite valid. Unlike much of what is accused of "endemic bias" there, saying that Rhode Island is better known than AP might indeed be Western bias. I urge you to keep editing in general since editors of your calibre are a great addition, but please do temper this (particularly if you continue with the geography issue) with the awareness that any endemic bias must be addressed with great dispassion, clear documentation, and unemotional logic, and honestly is unlikely to be fixed on India issues until it is clear that non-Indians likewise recognise the endemic bias. I appreciate your work, but this is going to be a slow process which needs finesse, and the cleaner it's run the easier it will be in the long run. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 15:48, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
|}
There needs to be some organization for clan infoboxes, especially for Rajput infoboxes, which are a mess of css and generally inconsistent in appearance. Now I'm not sure this should just be a Rajput thing (at least one clan I encountered had in it's title Jat, Gujar and Rajput and I'd hate to leave any of those out) or even an India particular thing (since some clans are in both India and Pakistan). Maybe an infobox template for South Asian Clan with a field of ethnic groups. I want to make sure I don't step on any toes before trying to run with this idea as I think this sort of infobox could apply to a number of articles. Does anyone object? (On a semi-related topic, I've seen in a lot of Rajput clan infoboxs the field "Vansh" - I cannot find anywhere a definition or article on that term. I'm not sure it needs an article, but at least for my own sanity, does anyone know what that term means?) Jztinfinity ( talk) 03:03, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
I have listed Mamata Banerjee's Oath of Office for promotion as a featured sound. Please list you Support/Oppose votes here. Regards, Avenue X at Cicero ( talk) 08:03, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Have a look at this [19]. The Indian football clubs are being vandalized like anything. It comes under the scope of WikiProject India. I thought to leave a message here so that some one who know about the team might have a look at that. I could not revert it myself because the informations are so misleading that I dont know which edit is correct. However I've reverted this ( Kingfisher East Bengal FC), still not sure whether it is correct. Have a look at this too [20] this is quite insane. Shriram ( talk) 19:18, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Instead of copypasting the whole discussion here, just post a link to the relevant talk page. This is going to duplicate discussion here and there--
Sodabottle (
talk) 17:58, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
To caveat: by "this discussion" you mean specifically the infobox portion thereof, yes? That's fine by me, we can cover template chat at the template page. There is still the larger issue of varna classification in the body of the article, and I think Foodie and I are on the same page there, so good positive steps. Again, I think in a lot of cases varna is worth mentioning somewhere in the lede, even if it is just "it's complicated (see below)", and goodness knows plenty of articles love to jam "Kshatriya" into the first sentence. It'll take some tweaking to get words that make all parties happy, but I hope we can agree that varna is: 1) complicated and changing 2) of great interest to readers and with echoing effects even in the modern day 3) sensitive and should be addressed with precision but without censorship or waffling. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 15:41, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Foodie 377. I too am having problems with the word "S*****". Some time ago, there was a proposal to use the word "Dalit" instead of "S*****". Do you think you are OK with it? I understand that it is the word which is supposed to be acceptable in North India and there would seem to be no distaste for that word there.- MangoWong ( talk) 16:37, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
I'm trying to expand and reference the article List of trade unions in the Singareni coal fields. I'm working on a draft at User:Soman/temp. However, I'm having problems encountering full election results, especially from 1998, 2001 and 2007 (and has any election been held 2011?). Could any Telugu-speaking editor check if there are news reports in Telugu on the election results? Also, to check if SGKS and Singareni Workers Union are one and the same? (I posted a query at WP:RDL) -- Soman ( talk) 23:52, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
I have proposed the renaming of a number of Tamil Nadu districts here- minor orthographic changes, but we would need to agree ( Crusoe8181 ( talk) 04:09, 3 August 2011 (UTC)).
Someone has asked me for an audio file for the Hindi pronunciation of Mamata Banerjee's name. I'm not able to make such a file - would anyone here be willing to make one? (A file for the Bengali pronunciation would be useful too, but it's specifically the Hindi pronunciation that I've been asked for.) -- Zundark ( talk) 11:50, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Please provide your feedback on the aforementioned AfD as its getting highly controversial by days. - Wikiglobaleditor ( talk) 08:53, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
I hope the discussions on whatever that was above are over. (or at least have lost interest & enthu.) I would hence like to bring to your notice some new things.
& so on.... People can be differentiated based on geographical living (even birth-place; thats dispute too) or the ancestry they belong to (even mother-tongue; thats dispute too) or other various things. As all these differentiations are valid, merger of these pages is not possible. (Especially with Punjabi & Bengali where the scope definitely goes beyond geo-borders.) But i dont think that we should have articles of these listings. They are always untidy, debating, redlinked, no-linked, fan-sites and what not. Wouldnt categories be sufficient for this cause of differentiation??? § Animeshkulkarni ( talk) 16:11, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Trying to copyedit the above page, but the list in the "Naher-E-Ambari" section has been written poorly enough to make me wonder if its in the right place (or if it should even be included). I personally believe that it should be removed, but I would really appreciate a member with a good grasp of English spelling and grammar to look over it and give me a second opinion so I can finish copyediting it. Many thanks. -- Skamecrazy123 ( talk) 18:36, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
I found this template:
and there an entry called "Punjab" is included. The article " East Punjab" gives the impression there was a state called East Punjab. What was the first name and when did it change? Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 15:12, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
Due to recent opposition to me cleaning up the naming in accordance with established consensus, User:SpacemanSpiff reporting me to ANI for doing so, and several other people telling me I am doing something the wrong way, I am now filing moves individually.
Inside Category:Villages in India when scanning two levels below, there are only three articles that use two commas, all the other 10000+ articles use at most one. RM's placed at:
Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 10:27, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Inside Category:Villages in India when scanning two levels below, all of the 1000+ articles that use a dab tag attached via comma use the basic place name, when not considering type indicators like taluk or district, capitalized. RM placed at:
Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 10:44, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Inside Category:Villages in India when scanning two levels below, I only found "Rajastan" once. This string redirects to Rajasthan, so it might be a variant name. 33 other articles use the variant Rajasthan. RM filed at
Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 11:18, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
No evidence found that Koonur is located in several "Nalgonda districts". RM filed at:
Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 14:04, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
No evidence found that anything like "Nalgonda dsitrict" exists while the cat says it is in Nalgonda district. RM filed at:
Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 14:29, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
These seven move requests have all been fulfilled. What would have cost me 1-2 min, did cost me more than 15 min. And the admins that performed them and closed the requests probably needed another 5min. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 22:33, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi,
Need comments on Hindu Jatis on discussion going on Talk:Kurmi#Source_for_Shudra Shudra source.
Views about how Wikipedia standards on Reliable Sources are enforced on pages related to Hinduism/Hindu Jatis are also welcome, for it appears to me that these are enforced on Hindu Jatis tightly for to consider reliable sources only, not otherwise.
As also, from my side, I would like to point out how admins have missed it completely, perhaps since last 3/4 months, that these are about Hindu Jatis and are treating the subject as a kind where all standards must be enforced and anyone who insists otherwise is to be treated strictly as per usual Wikipedia norms. ..असक्तः सततं कार्य कर्म समाचर | असक्तः हि आचरन् कर्म.. Humour Thisthat2011 08:26, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Or you could have let people give comments on this discussion here.
I guess the comments about whether RS criteria should be strictly enforced for Hindu Jatis page, including legends, referring Puranas, etc. could be commented here or there then. ..असक्तः सततं कार्य कर्म समाचर | असक्तः हि आचरन् कर्म.. Humour Thisthat2011 17:42, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
You all are judging what others have done, which is not job of editors on Wikipedia. You have gone at length to justify why to avoid legends/beliefs which is somehow not mentioned as job of editors on Wikipedia. ..ईती ईती नॆती नॆती.. Humour Thisthat2011 17:12, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Can you please stop personal attacks like "It is a few weeks since you wasted everyone's time here with your Kurmi POV."???. It is nothing more than disgusting to me. He did not waste my time. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 15:06, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
varņa means class. There are 4 classes, brāhmaņa, kśatriya, vaiśya and śūdra. One makes a choice ("vŗņoti"), based on one's aptitude (guņa) and work (karma), as to which class (varņa) one would belong to. I don't know what śūdra means, but it is said that [everyone] is born a śūdra by birth (janmanā jāyate śūdrah) and becomes a twice-born (dvija) [brāhmaņa, kśatriya or vaiśya] by culture (samskāra) [education and training] (samskārāt dvija ucyate). To the best of my knowledge the Shāstras do not talk about jāti per se.
Kanchanamala (
talk) 02:44, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
- - - - - - - - - - - - WikiConference India 2011 - - - - - - - - - - - - | ||
---|---|---|
Hi, Noticeboard for India-related topics, The First WikiConference India is being organized in Mumbai and will take place on 18-20 November 2011. Official website Facebook event 100 day long WikiOutreach Scholarship form | ||
As you are part of WP:IND community we invite you to be there for conference and share your experience.Thank you for your contributions. | ||
We look forward to see you at Mumbai on 18-20 November 2011 |
I have been trying to find a suitable map that shows Rajasthan/Rajputana in relation to the Mughal and Maratha territories around the time of James Tod. Even better would be a free use version of Tod's own map of central India. Can't find anything that suits - suggestions welcome. - Sitush ( talk) 21:12, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
While on maps, if anyone can move the Commons file pushpin map File:Orissa locator map.svg to File:Odisha locator map.svg this should now allow the state to be named Odisha in infobox and a pushpin map to appear (I've done the rest, I think, see Hinjilicut et al, just not sure how to copy the map) ( Crusoe8181 ( talk) 03:24, 9 August 2011 (UTC)).
At the article Mannadiar, a new-reg came in, blanked the article and put in a new one (content appears to be summarised, poorly, from some kind of anthro source) about a clan in the Palakkad area. The other editor restored the article, and the article has a blurb mentioning "not the same as the Palakkad Mannadiyar clan". I can't quite tell if these are really two different groups which have a very similar name, the same group and the fighting is just a content fork or what.
If anyone has a better grasp on Kerala social groups, input here would be cool. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 20:50, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
The article misri (apparently cakes of sugar crystals) has no pic; does anyone here have this stuff just sitting on their kitchen table at the moment, and can upload a pic? Just seems an easy thing to find a pic for amongst the Indian editors. Thanks! MatthewVanitas ( talk) 20:50, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
This NYT article mentions "Dabba Kali" - A children's game in India. It says that there are few sources about it, but many people play it: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/08/business/media/a-push-to-redefine-knowledge-at-wikipedia.html?_r=1&ref=noamcohen
So, would anyone have any idea on what sources out there talk about it? WhisperToMe ( talk) 16:25, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
An user moved this page without any discussion. I think this move is unfair. They should have left this page as such. They should create a new page for the region if they feel the need. Thanks Shyamsunder ( talk) 10:27, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi there! I thought I would inform Indian Wikipedians about this candidate at Featured pictures since this is in the scope of WikiProject India. Avenue X at Cicero ( talk) 10:58, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
Is it reasonable to assume that possession of a last name, such as Menon or Pillai, is sufficient to establish that person to be a Nair per WP:V? What about when the last names are even Nair or Nayar? I am a bit reluctant to make this sort assumption but other people may differ. The same issue applies, obviously, to numerous other communities. I am aware that there have been surveys showing that, for example, 72% of respondents would not countenance marriage outside their own community but that still leaves 28% who were presumably ok about it or at least had no strong opinion on the matter. - Sitush ( talk) 12:37, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Please see here. Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 04:35, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
The following is an extract from the Indian Independence Act 1947:
[Section]1.-(i) As from the fifteenth day of August, ninteen hundred and forty-seven, two independent Dominions shall be set up in India, to be known respectively as India and Pakistan.
The following are a sample (sample only) of the many treaties during the period that India was a Dominion. In none is India described as the "Dominion of India":
There is no dispute but that India was indeed a Dominion between 1947 and 1949. However, it is abundantly clear that both its common name and its official name was never the " Dominion of India" although that term was used sometimes. Accordingly the article called " Dominion of India" should be moved to something more appropriate e.g. " India (Dominion)" and the article revised accordingly. I want to raise this here so as to (i) reach consensus as to the facts; (ii) agree where the article should be moved. NelsonSudan ( talk) 18:38, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Shri H. V. Kamath : Sir, is it very necessary to say "the Government of the Dominion of India ?" Is it not enough to say "the Government of India?" Mr. President : There is a confusion. The Government of India means. also the Government of India under the new Constitution, but the Government of the Dominion of India means the Government which was in power before the commencement of the Constitution. I think it is to avoid that confusion that this amendment is brought in. - Source [23]
Which WP policies say it is required to not use a name that was used in official documents but in itself was not official? Which WP policies say it is required to not use a name that was a commonly used name in official documents and that was especially used to distinguish it from another object (India), but maybe was not a WP:COMMON name in the past? Regarding the example " India (Dominion)", WP:MoS would require " India (dominion)". Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 13:22, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
"Article 270
Mr. President: Then we go to article 270.
Mr. Naziruddin Ahmad (West Bengal: Muslim): Mr. President, Sir, I beg to move:
"That in article 270, the words 'the Dominion of' be deleted."
The word 'Dominion' is applicable to India as it is constituted today. In the new set-up of things which is being drawn by this Consititution the word 'Dominion' or the idea of any Dominion would be repugnant to our Constitution. That is why I have sought the deletion of this. If the deletion is accepted the passage will run thus namely "the Government of India" and not" the Government of the Dominion of India".
(Amendment No. 2976 was not moved.)
The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Sir, I move:
"That with reference to amendments Nos. 2975 and 2976 of the List of Amendments, in article 270, for the words 'assets and liabilities' the words 'assests, liabilities and obligations' be substituted."
Now, as regards the amendment moved by Mr. Naziruddin Ahmad, may I say that he has evidently forgotten that we are using the words "Government of India" to indicate the Government that will come into existence under the new Constitution, while the "Government of the Dominion of India" is a term which is being used to indicate the Government at the present moment? Consequently, if his amendment is accepted is accepted it would mean that the Government of India is succeeding to the liabilities, obligations and assests of the Government of India. It would make absurd reading. Therefore the words as they are there are very appropriate and ought to be retained."
Regarding my questions above and the reply by Nelson, I like to ask this: Is there a WP policy requiring using a past common name? I.e. can't we choose a common name as of today? What is the common name of "India (dominion)" today? I think there is some freedom in the titles applied. "India (dominion)" is not something one would use in speech, but Dominion of India is and it is also documented that this was used in the past. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 15:12, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
I'm getting so little input I feel like the only interested editor. NelsonSudan ( talk) 18:24, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Yes, the official name of India 1947-1950 was indeed the "Dominion of India"
here's a Treaty of Friendship between India and Switzerland, dated 14th August 1948: http://www.indiaswitzerland.in/jubilee/index.php?link_id=98&parent_id=87&type=general, or to give it it's full title: "TREATY OF FRIENDSHIP AND ESTABLISHMENT BETWEEN HIS MAJESTY THE KING OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND IRELAND AND OF THE BRITISH DOMINIONS BEYOND THE SEAS, ON BEHALF OF THE DOMINION OF INDIA, AND THE SWISS CONFEDERATION"
-the term 'Dominion of India' is used extensively: "on behalf of the Dominion of India", Article 1:"There shall be perpetual peace and unalterable friendship between the Dominion of India and Switzerland." Final protocol: "...between His Majesty the King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and of the British Dominions beyond the Seas, on behalf of the Dominion of India", "may in future accede to the Dominion of India", "which secure in the Dominion of India", "preferences which the Dominion of India accords" JWULTRABLIZZARD ( talk) 09:02, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
-also lookee here: http://www.archontology.org/nations/india/01_polity.php -HOWEVER I do agree however that the 'dominion' articles for Pakistan (which was NOT called the 'Dominion of Pakistan' except in very occasional; sporadic official use) and also Ceylon (whose official name was 'Island of Ceylon', not 'Dominion of Ceylon') should be moved. JWULTRABLIZZARD ( talk) 11:25, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Note: I have removed the banner from the article page linking to this discussion. (1) Move requests need to go through process at WP:RM, not a discussion on the project page, (2) the initiator is blocked as a sock, (3) even ignoring the other two issues, there isn't any support for the proposal. This doesn't preclude anyone interested from opening a proper move request on the article talk page. — Spaceman Spiff 11:34, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
We have a new user User:Jenakarthik running a bot to create Tamil Nadu village articles. See [24]. The user has been advised to get bot approval. I would like to get this to attention of the India project members. The reference that is given for the demographics, Voiceofbharat.org sounds dubious to me. Thoughts? Kattunaval is an example. — Ganeshk ( talk) 04:06, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
I created an article about Sher Bahadur Singh, a member of the Uttar Pradesh Legislative Assembly. It might be worthwhile for someone or a bot to create stubs for all the current and past members of the Uttar Pradesh Legislative Assembly and Legislative Council, since they are automatically notable as members of a state legislature, in both the Hindi and English Wikipedias. Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 02:06, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
Please check the signature of Nazeer Akbarabadi in his biographical article - it is just a print of the name and not signature. Hindustanilanguage ( talk) 08:36, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Kolkata#Requesting_move.2C_again. Zuggernaut ( talk) 04:31, 28 August 2011 (UTC) Zuggernaut ( talk) 04:31, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
This notice is to advise interested editors that a Contributor copyright investigation has been opened which may impact this project. Such investigations are launched when contributors have been found to have placed copyrighted content on Wikipedia on multiple occasions. It may result in the deletion of images or text and possibly articles in accordance with Wikipedia:Copyright violations. The specific investigation which may impact this project is located here.
All contributors with no history of copyright problems are welcome to contribute to CCI clean up. There are instructions for participating on that page. Additional information may be requested from the user who placed this notice, at the process board talkpage, or from an active CCI clerk. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:05, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
I kindly request editors to comment on two similar, but very distinct RMs here and here. Do note that the situations in both the requests are quite different, and bears resemblance to the recent RM on Gandhi. Lynch 7 14:03, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
Can we put up Adopt-an-Article as WP:POST in WP:IND -- naveenpf ( talk) 03:48, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
This article ( Rasa shastra) is in desperate need of some help from somebody whose understanding of the source material and access to sources is better than mine. Some earlier versions in the history had rather promotional souding supernatural and medical claims, and these drew attention. - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 04:08, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
The map of India that Wikipedia shows is illegal in India. Wiki-India will be held in Mumbai which is in India, and where Indian laws hold jurisdiction. What will be done so that laws are not broken? The outreach programme etc also mentions books, cds, and other offline material. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 20:23, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
It is not a simple matter of fussing about a map or two. This is a matter of Sovereign India and it's map. All it may take to get a great fuss is to file a Public Interest Litigation in any Indian court. Both the Shudra stuff and Indian map has the potential to land people behind bars. I hope it don't get into any issues as I have used the word to answer a few questions. One more thing, to file a PIL it takes just 6£ or 10$. That's it. Propagating a wrong map of India by an Indian amounts to treason. So I hope anyone with knowledge of Indian laws can pitch in. Nameisnotimportant ( talk) 23:49, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
A small clarification - I am not involved with the chapter. Some months back i raised the issue in the WM India public mailing list. There was talk of getting legal advice but i dont know what happened after that.-- Sodabottle ( talk) 15:02, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
I am not sure what the Wikimedia Chapter in India has to do with this or even can do with this. We are very clear that we have no control over the contents of Wikipedia/Commons and it would be appropriate to direct queries on this to the Foundation. Reference. Gkjohn ( talk) 15:43, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
That this real and important problem has been brought up is in itself a good thing. Ideally it should have been addressed by now but it is difficult to see whether the Wikipedia community of editors is capable of addressing this and other similar issues. The reason for this is well known - the Wikipedia community is hardly a cross-section of the society. It is mainly made up of urban elite who are closer to their teenage years than to middle age or even the 30s and 40s. At the same time it is unlikely that external organisations or institutions like the ones pointed out above are going to take up the issue right now. As Wikipedia attracts more of the same type of editors, things may become worse before they improve. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.163.30.21 ( talk) 05:51, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
A follow-up to the original concern about potential legal liability for people going to the Indian meet-up): Community liason MDennis checked with the Foundation, and, unfortunately, they have no helpful information. You can see their actual reply at User Talk:Mdennis (WMF)#Question regarding India from some Chapter members. Sorry that that doesn't can't give you all any more piece of mind. Qwyrxian ( talk) 12:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Hari S. Kartha could use some help. The article needs sources, but I don't know where to look. I found a reference for his being the editor of Janmabhumi newspaper, but couldn't find more. I'm guessing the needed sources would be offline or not in the English language. Cloveapple ( talk) 01:09, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Bonfire Night (disambiguation)#Requested move. Trevj ( talk) 23:35, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Bonfire Night#Requested move. Trevj ( talk) 23:35, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names)/Archives/2011/July#Places in India.
I think India is big enough to use the same convention of disambiguation with levels below country and not with country as do Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, South Africa, the United Kingdom and the United States. The all use "X, statename", "X, territoryname" or similar if disambiguation is needed. If no disambiguation is needed, the articles on localities in India can use the plain place name of course. So no mandatory disambiguation as is done with the US. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 16:01, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (India):
I suggest that places in India use the state or district for disambiguation and not "India". India is such a large country, 2nd most populous, that it will be much more clear to use a lower level. Otherwise, it would be like using "Europe" for places in Europe.
A list of places that would need renaming is at Talk:List_of_cities_and_towns_in_India#Analysis_of_disambiguation_tags.
If these are renamed, all articles left as "X, India" should be set index articles, as in Category:Set indices on populated places in India. This is good for automatic checking with bots. Bots could even create these set index pages.
Maybe you can reply at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (India). Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 14:58, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
The set index page Begar, India has been deleted. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 16:00, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
What can be done to prevent such deletions? Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 16:05, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
These are WP:NOTDAB but WP:SIA pages. And there is a lot of use in these SIA pages, e.g. see Hosur, India - several India templates linked to Hosur, but meant Hosur's in more than a dozen different districts. I collected this information, so people can take more care with their links in the future. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 16:16, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Ok, you disagree with Rameshwaram, but why got Begar, India deleted? I repeat SIA are not DAB pages. And one does not need to disambiguate to create SIA pages, these are separate matters. SIA pages, if they are at "X, India" are completely separate from the article names. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 16:44, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
See Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (India). Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 16:46, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
There appears to be a goodly amount of media coverage of abuse of Phensedyl (cough syrup) in South Asia. Rather than just a passing mention in India/Nepal/Bangladesh legal/drug/health articles, might it be best to centralise it to Phensedyl (currenly a redirect to the chemical article Promethazine), or DAB it as Phensedyl abuse or similar? This appears to be one of those topics where it might be easily overlooked academically, but yet still has enough media/NGO coverage to cover its social impact. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 17:21, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
Not speaking Hindi, and having been confused by many of the zoo names that I have been dealing with, I went to the dictionary. Shouldn't this be rendered (in the English WikiPedia) as Sanjay Ghandi Biological Park to be more understandable to English speakers? Donlammers ( talk) 17:46, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
I noticed the above page in the GOCE backlogs and went to work on copy editing. However, the prose is so confusing that I don't know where to begin with it. If a member of this group could give me a hand in understanding what was written, then I would be most grateful. If not, then I will have to try my hardest to go through the article and clean it up. Please drop me a line on my talk page if there is anyone willing to help. -- Skamecrazy123 ( talk) 21:12, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
I have been informed that I should seek permission before bannering an article to your WikiProject. So, should Algar, Uttara Kannada have a WPINDIA banner? 65.93.15.213 ( talk) 04:40, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
Aurel Stein's work on Kalhana refers to a "tribe" that he called the Lavanyas. Although that is a common enough name for a person, I can't find an article about the tribe. Has the name evolved into something else during the last century? They would have been in the Kashmir/Lohar area. - Sitush ( talk) 17:39, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
I think it is fairly well known that the output of Gyan Publishers/ISHA Books is very dodgy from a Wikipedia POV (and perhaps, for them, from a legal POV also). Their reprints are often mangled but it is the modern works that present the real issues.
I have long had doubts about Anmol Publishers and MD Publications. Both of these I have now found to have blatantly used content without attribution on at least one instance, albeit from a 1900 source. These have been published as if they were written by the author named on the cover but in fact include huge "copyvios" of Aurel Stein, with the very occasional word changed. So, beware of:
It is quite amusing to see how GBooks thinks that Gupta has been cited all over the place: that is because the sentences it has indexed are ripped off from other, older works!
Maybe these are already known to be "dodgy" for our purposes, but if not then they are now. - Sitush ( talk) 19:42, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
Is Shri Krishniji another name for Krishna ? I have the feeling that the -ji is a belief-oriented suffix. - Sitush ( talk) 01:16, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Wrong venue; please follow WP:DR. Salvio Let's talk about it! 11:21, 21 July 2011 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
I had content disputes with user talk:Sitush. He put a sock investigation against me for my trouble. I expressed my displeasure about it on his talk page. He simply removed my edit calling it a troll. He has forced my hand when I wished to keep it bi-lateral. It is easy to take action against Indian editors. That he could not hang me for socking, is because I guess socking is a technical thing needs machines whom you can trust to be unbiased. I cannot be sure when an issue would be dealt by humans. We have one editor already cooling his heels in the slammer. I have also read that certain admins slaughter hundreds of new Indian editors for nationatialist pov. What is this page going to do about this malise? I'm using Noticeboard for India-related topics as it is very much an India related issue. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 02:22, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
|
I see that review is pending for Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Piyush_Pandey. While it seems to be a reasonably well-written article for someone who is contributing on Wikipedia for the first time, I find it tragic that most reviewers there seem to be working as gatekeepers rather than enablers. It reads far better than most stubs. I believe that we should keenly follow AFCs for articles with India focus and help review/ enrich the same. People who are usually active in AFC or those otherwise interested in Indian articles on Wikipedia may please weigh in. -- Gurubrahma ( talk) 17:23, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
There are several India-related articles (e.g. 1891 Census of the United Provinces, Bihar famine of 1873–74) that link to United Provinces, which is a disambig page. I'm trying to disambiguate that link, but the best candidate, United Provinces of Agra and Oudh, didn't come into existence until 1902. So can anyone clarify what these inks are referring to? Colonies Chris ( talk) 21:50, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Another related question: the article United Province should properly be titled United Provinces, I think, as the plural form appears to be the official name. But this would bring it into conflict with the disambig page that already exists at that location. Would it be acceptable to rename it to something more specific, such as "United Provinces (1937-1947)"? Colonies Chris ( talk) 10:25, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Do Senior Advocates in India meet the requirements of Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Politicians? I rather think that the position is a "state-wide office" and so would scrape through on these inherent grounds. - Sitush ( talk) 12:53, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
There are ca 638,000 villages and more than 5100 towns, for details see states and territories of India. With 640 districts that leads to more than 1000 villages/towns per district on average. Only 10 districts have ambiguous names within India. So it could help a lot to use the district as the default disambiguator for all the villages if disambiguation is needed.
Would like to hear your feedback at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (India)#Disambiguation by district. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 04:17, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
With 43 mio people on average per state, the area defined by the primary dab term is far way off from what is done in other countries. Analysis at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (India)#Disambiguation by state or district compared with dab in other countries. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 14:40, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
Talk:Tirthankar#Requested move -> has not seen any traffic. So please weigh in. Arjun codename024 08:15, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Does WP:INDIA have an IRC channel? WP:MILHIST does, and I think WP:INDIA would benefit from one too. It would provide more fluidity to discussions. Office of Disinformation 12:36, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Please refer to the discussions at Talk:Lata Mangeshkar. Please give your views there or here. - Animeshkulkarni ( talk) 11:01, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
For start, we have begun with Lata's songs. So now you can help here....
User:Animeshkulkarni/List of songs by Lata Mangeshkar. -
Animeshkulkarni (
talk) 12:15, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
A discussion here on the naming of Indian populated places ( Crusoe8181 ( talk) 07:31, 21 July 2011 (UTC)).
Removed template, place only a link: Template:Ambiguous names of populated places in India.
Tinucherian created templates for populated places (labeled villages/towns) in Karnataka, they can be found at Category:Karnataka district templates. They are quite large and I think should be replaced in the future, maybe on taluk level. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 12:37, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
With 43 mio people on average per state, the area defined by the primary dab term is far way off from what is done in other countries. Analysis at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (India)#Disambiguation by state or district compared with dab in other countries.
I also have seen that some articles have even been directly created with the taluka as disambiguator, i.e. even below the district. In light of that, I wonder why we cannot drop the states and use at least the districts. UP has 199,581,477 inhabitants, all other countries in the analysis are more precise with their dab terms. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 14:41, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
This disgusting trend of "if you dont agree with me, you are anti-Indian" accusations has to stop. This is wikipedia not a rediff/Times of India comment board where people throw infantile accusations at each other. Editors who have spent thousands of hours creating and maintaining India related content are being attacked by talk page warriors of being "anti-India". This sort of behaviour has to end now.-- Sodabottle ( talk) 08:24, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Sodabottle: you shut me up when I brought the subject up the last time, forget terminology, forget what someone said to another, some time. How do you see persistant remarks to the effect (not verbatim), plague from India is ruining Wikipedia, caste warriors, pov indian nationalists, facists. Soda a bloke thinks I am omni-present, I called him incompetent, another fellow on the Ezava talk page too called him that, he doesn't seem to understant that we are not socks, his edits are in-comptent. Why is this fellow given such a long rope? This guy even reverted article talk page edits. (2)Soda would you have got away with the things that are said on the Gandhi move, say on the British Empire page? Let us not indulge in wp:OSE. Treat each case on merit is all I say. You joined cause with him on the India talk page, I say you are free to take any side as I am, take it on merit. If you have some issue with me please discuss, the attack on me was unwarrented, on India page and here. There is a lot of talk on meat-sock would you give me a few solid reasons why Mohanstutter Karamwhatnot Gandhi can't be moved to Mahatma Gandhi?? Please Soda you are free to ignore everything and I would not hold it against you, but for every word you put in prepare to back it with a diff. You too have the same previlege of course. New eyes looking at this: For starters see the arguments against the move to Mahatma Gandhi, one fellow there feels that it would be the fall of another colonial bastion, he argues that nationalist freaks are pushing the move. That the move would besmear Wikipedia. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 09:39, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
@MV - you suggested include the word "bias" [2]. @Soda - thanks for saying that three people are from India. I don't know who they are, you are one - ok. For the record, "anti-Indian" within this thread is your words. I posed a question and it got answered a little bit. The bias maybe does not come from outside. We have now clear out, that you, from Tamil Nadu have no problem with " , Tamil Nadu" as the default. But you write "it should depend on the repetition of place names and the necessity for disambig" - well, if disambiguation is needed for places in India it is mostly because they are ambiguous within India. This is different to the Anglo-sphere countries Canada, US, UK, NZ, Australia. Due to my initiative it was already agreed that ", India" does not help a lot and that we would use at least the state level. The next thing I observed is that place names if they conflict most often conflict within states. So the thing is that ", statename" is of no big help either. You simply say it is not - well, this is not very constructive. You also say "I have even provided you with names of other editors who are experienced in geographical articles and can provide more input." - But they did not. And I think they did not spend so much time on cities, towns and villages as I did the last days. And it was not them that created the 204 SIA pages collected at Category:Set indices on populated places in India. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 13:33, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
@YK I don't know about Kurmi and Ganges. @All Currently I am talking about disambiguation. I had no other explanation than that people may come from outside India. The thing is that people who actually created articles sometimes used the taluka. The "anti" thing was solved and was between me and rgpk - this is done and was gone. @Soda, you bring it back. Using "Bias" is simply one assumption, I didn't say there is one, I marked it as a question. If asking questions regarding "bias" is not allowed in your world, then yours is different to mine. It's not about only that I didn't like something, but I also provided more data. You ignored the data so far. Maybe this is a bias because you are from Tamil Nadu or have not much knowledge about place names in India - I don't know. Maybe in Tamil Nadu there are less naming conflicts. What is bad with the word "bias"? But back to the issue at hand, I want to improve the naming of the articles on geography of India. Here are facts:
Someone above suggested I should contact an editor who, as that someone claimed, knows more about geographic topics. (Not exactly the wording but something like that.) I did contact that person. There is bias. To say that a county like West Sussex having 781,600 inhabitants and 1,991 km2 is equivalent to the average Indian state having 43,221,071 inhabitants (factor 55) and 117,402 km2 (factor 60) and explicitly not to the average Indian district having 1,890,922 inhabitants (factor 2.4) 5,136 km2 (factor 2.6) /is/ bias as far as I understand. Give me a better term if you have one. 2.5 West Sussex would make up a district. So this county is not even half of what a district is and of cause it is by no means equivalent in power to the average Indian state.
So what are we going to do, I simply do not understand why articles on Indian geography shall use a more complicated system than the UK, Ireland and France. The article quality is going to suffer from this. The district system is a well established one, districts exists in all Indian states. Even with districts the precision is less than with the UK counties. So one could also look whether to use tehsils/taluks/talukas/mandals or equivalent. But this is less unique and I am not aware how many of these units are named ambiguously itself. Please anyone opposing the district system for disambiguation explain why India shall have a more complicated setup. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 21:52, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
I would venture to guess that everyone is totally fine with "here are many ambiguous place names which need addressing." We're just concerned about any implications that India is being treated as "inferior", that there's some concious or unconcious diminishing of India by how its articles are being filed. By "lag of awareness", what do you mean exactly? Lack of awareness for how many similar/same Indian place-names need to be DAB'ed? Or some general lack of awareness of India? I maybe need to go look at the actual discussions more, but in all honesty I'm baffled as to how issues of systemic bias and discrimination could be plausibly interfering with a geo-DAB discussion. It's not like anyone wants people to have a harder time filing India articles. My suggestion: I would really avoid the "Germany uses X system, is India less important than Germany?!?!?!" and instead use angles like "Germany has some really clear DABs using X system, I think that would work great for India too, how about we use that?" MatthewVanitas ( talk) 16:46, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
I wish to bring your notice to the various "around" categories created for Hindu temples. Some of them are:
Now, should we let these ambiguous templates remain here or should we tag them for deletion. Now, X from Chennai might feel that Kumbakonam is somewhere "around" Thanjavur, while Y from Bangalore might feel that Tiruchirappalli is somewhere "around" Thanjavur and Z from Delhi might have the notion that Thanjavur is situated somewhere "around" Chennai. I feel that these categories could very well be removed, instead, temples could be classified on basis of the districts in which they are situated.- The Enforcer Office of the secret service 07:03, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
I've created one for Hindu temples in Thanjavur district. Your opinions solicited.- The Enforcer Office of the secret service
Yes, by district please for geographic organization. Side note: people were so strongly opposing using ", DistrictName" if disambiguation is needed anyway, I now wonder what is up with Kalyanasundaresar Temple, Nallur, Mahalingeswarar Temple, Thiruvidaimarudur, Veetrirundha Perumal Temple, Veppathur none of these have any content at the plain name. I would vote for dropping the district name in these cases. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 15:11, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
Are tributes allowed in wikipedia pages? for example U. Srinivas Mallya
- djds4rce
Started talk at Talk:Hyderabad,_India#Hyderabad.2C_Andhra_Pradesh_and_WP:BIAS. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 12:02, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
What can I do to perform better in the interest of WP India?
Whenever errors were pointed out I tried to correct them and to change my behavior. The recent things I simply do not understand. I acted in good faith and followed consensus.
What else can I do?
Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 16:01, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
Link: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2011_July_27#NEW_NOMINATIONS. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 17:00, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
I've run across several articles, with Mahyavanshi being a good example, on Indian groups that were for a period not at all considered to be Rajput, and then sometime during the Raj did some research (I'm trying to be NPOV here and not say "research"), found out that they were actually Rajput, and agitated politically for such with varying degrees of success. I would argue that this trend of Rajput re-discovery, like Kshatriya agitation, Sanskritisation overall, etc. is quite fascinating and notable, but is there any way we can actually have a category to contain such groups? Failing that, is there a good term for "Rajput rediscovery" that we can do a basic article on, and in that article list such groups? I also don't know if the people covering Rajput topics are annoyed that all these claimant groups are simply placed in Category:Rajputs currently. Any thoughts on how to best organise this material to reflect the above? MatthewVanitas ( talk) 14:34, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
"while varna was generally accepted as the basis for identity, on the whole little agreement prevailed with respect to the place of the individual and the jati within a varna hierarchy. Srinivas, describing social relations in the mid-twentieth century, regarded such a “lack of clarity in the hierarchy” as “one of the most striking features of the caste system,” adding that “it is this ambiguity which makes it possible for a caste to rise in the hierarchy.”[30] Such ambiguity only becomes a striking feature, however, when observers expect to see the opposite, that is, a complete congruity between theory (varna) and practice (jati). Such expectations were increasingly palpable in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, when India became for nascent (imperial) anthropology a “laboratory of mankind,” wherein scientific methods of observation (anthropometry among them) were expected to produce clear and straightforward sociological (and racial) patterns that conformed to varna-derived theories."
Is there something like Rajputism? What would be the top category? Because to have Rajputs and inside Rajput people and Rajput clans looks weird to me. Since I assume a Rajput to be a person. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 20:13, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
@MV if you subcate'd 100 articles that's great. No, I explicitly like cats for individuals and those for groups. Only the naming is little confusing since to me mostly Rajputs = Rajput people. Maybe "Individual Rajputs"? All in all I have not much interest in that area, just saw it on the NB and wanted to give some feedback. No idea why not having them in subcats. Hoppla! Now I look at Category:Rajputs - this is real clean now. Much more inviting to read! Thumbs up! Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 01:15, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
There are many such lists that read like a directory and contain few blue links. I don't know what to do with them. Suggestions? Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 06:59, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
By the way, I posted at Wikiproject Pakistan a week ago. No response. I won't bother at the other countries mentioned. This sort of pruning is per policy, and if consensus is formed here, I will proceed. Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 08:11, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Although WP:NOTDIR sounds right, it doesn't actually forbid such lists. But, WP:V does, and it has teeth. I am leaning toward boldly pruning these lists down to bluelinks. If someone wants to restore content, then it would probably only be redlinks, and on the grounds that they " could plausibly" become articles. Then, the onus will be on them to dig up info on that redlink to show that the institution exists and may be notable enough.
SpacemanSpiff makes the good point that many blacklinks are actually blue, but are unlinked. I would be happy, as a precaution, to test the list in a sandbox by adding temporary links to all items to see which come up blue.
I would like to know if anyone intends on challenging the pruning of these lists done in this way? Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 00:07, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
I'm going to mull it over for a while. Other views are more than welcome. Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 06:12, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
FYI Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Naming conventions (India) - Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 14:54, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi,
Need comments for ongoing discussion [{Talk:Nair#Lede_section | here]]. Thanks. ..असक्तः सततं कार्य कर्म समाचर | असक्तः हि आचरन् कर्म.. Humour Thisthat2011 15:48, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Also need comments on another discussion here. Thanks. ..असक्तः सततं कार्य कर्म समाचर | असक्तः हि आचरन् कर्म.. Humour Thisthat2011 16:26, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
The article bulbul tarang has no local-language spellings in its lede; does anyone know how to spell this in Hindi and Urdu? MatthewVanitas ( talk) 16:51, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
MV, Office of disinformation has the correct Hindi or Devnagari script spelling. Having said that, my father played the instrument in his childhood ( 1930s/40), however, he used the Japanese name, however, my cousin who played it in 1960s and 70s called in bulbul tarang. My father thought,, the instruments were identical. hope this helps. Jonathansammy ( talk) 16:31, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
बुलबुल तरंग. This is the only spelling you can have in Dev nagari script used for writing Hindi, Marathi , Sanskrit and Nepali languages. I could not find any official site for the spellings, however check the following link. [3]. In Marathi and Hindi, Bulbul stands for nightingale and Tarang for harmony or wave Jonathansammy ( talk) 02:52, 30 July 2011 (UTC). Check these out [4] [5] Jonathansammy ( talk) 03:13, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Banned editor, Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Tobias Conradi |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
) SpacemanSpiff brought up the following at my talk: "Please stop" your page moves citing WP:NCINDIA. Most people have opposed your version of things and now moving articles randomly citing an unaccepted proposal as guideline is not on. Please establish consensus first and then do what consensus dictates. — Spaceman Spiff 13:50, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
@Sitush "No knowledge of the detail, but Wikipedia is a community and relies on consensus. Put simply, if you cannot deal with that basis then leaving may well be the solution. I hope that it does not come to that, however." - Why do you say such things to me. I enforced consensus by moving Hyderabad, India back to Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh. It is SpacemanSpiff who moved to a name that had no "official" agreement. He is the one randomly moving single articles. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 08:49, 29 July 2011 (UTC) On going accusations by SpacemanSpiffOn my talk: "Page moves" ... This is the last time I'm going to ask you to stop moving pages incorrecfly claiming consensus or under the cover of a guideline that doesn't exist. — Spaceman Spiff 06:36, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
Started talk at Talk:Hyderabad,_India#Hyderabad.2C_Andhra_Pradesh_and_WP:BIAS. No need for drama, shouting and vague accusations. Simply stick to the facts. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 12:12, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
I am leaving.My plan was to greatly improve the quality of the articles related to Indian geography. But if people bring me to WP:ANI and tell false things about me, allegations that I acted against consensus, allegations that I accuse everybody of being biased... I never did these things. I started creating WP:SIA pages, so far I only got 260, the plan was to get to 1000 in the next month. This would have massively helped to avoid ambiguity in links. SpacemanSpiff and Crusoe8181 did win. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 21:00, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
|
Readers here may be interested in contributing to the discussion at Talk:2008 Mumbai terrorist attacks#Requesting Move 2. Cheers. - GTBacchus( talk) 02:20, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Inside Category:Villages in India when scanning two levels below, there are 48 articles using "X (village)". I only checked the first three with http://censusindia.gov.in/PopulationFinder/Population_Finder.aspx and all are ambiguous.
What do SpacemanSpiff and his crew think of how to fix this any time soon? Do SpacemanSpiff and his crew think that I should really file all these by WP:RM and bother the people over there with such stuff, especially admins who have really things to do that are of more importance - in my opinion? I also do not see why this would be against any policy, if I would disambiguate them, but last time when I moved a page SpacemanSpiff got angry and brought me up to ANI and some people here seem to support this.
I find it really strange, why moves that I do in accordance with WP policies are singled out, while others are free to follow WP policies and SpacemanSpiff even is allowed to violate policies. - update does not matter.
Bogdan Nagachop (
talk) 15:13, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 13:50, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Bogdan, you have some really good points, as you often do, but again you're compromising yourself by getting caught in the personal. I would respectfully submit you consider US President Teddy Roosevelt's adage "speak softly and carry a big stick". If you argue about conflict, there will be more conflict. If you are keeping a level head, communicating smoothly (speaking softly), and feel there's honestly misbehaviour, take a very neutrally worded and dispassionate argument to ANI (your "big stick"). Otherwise, I suggest you play your strong suits with the very good analysis you're providing. I am not closely tracking the debate, but your concerns about such comments as "nobody knows where Andhra Pradesh is" are quite valid. Unlike much of what is accused of "endemic bias" there, saying that Rhode Island is better known than AP might indeed be Western bias. I urge you to keep editing in general since editors of your calibre are a great addition, but please do temper this (particularly if you continue with the geography issue) with the awareness that any endemic bias must be addressed with great dispassion, clear documentation, and unemotional logic, and honestly is unlikely to be fixed on India issues until it is clear that non-Indians likewise recognise the endemic bias. I appreciate your work, but this is going to be a slow process which needs finesse, and the cleaner it's run the easier it will be in the long run. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 15:48, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
|}
There needs to be some organization for clan infoboxes, especially for Rajput infoboxes, which are a mess of css and generally inconsistent in appearance. Now I'm not sure this should just be a Rajput thing (at least one clan I encountered had in it's title Jat, Gujar and Rajput and I'd hate to leave any of those out) or even an India particular thing (since some clans are in both India and Pakistan). Maybe an infobox template for South Asian Clan with a field of ethnic groups. I want to make sure I don't step on any toes before trying to run with this idea as I think this sort of infobox could apply to a number of articles. Does anyone object? (On a semi-related topic, I've seen in a lot of Rajput clan infoboxs the field "Vansh" - I cannot find anywhere a definition or article on that term. I'm not sure it needs an article, but at least for my own sanity, does anyone know what that term means?) Jztinfinity ( talk) 03:03, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
I have listed Mamata Banerjee's Oath of Office for promotion as a featured sound. Please list you Support/Oppose votes here. Regards, Avenue X at Cicero ( talk) 08:03, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Have a look at this [19]. The Indian football clubs are being vandalized like anything. It comes under the scope of WikiProject India. I thought to leave a message here so that some one who know about the team might have a look at that. I could not revert it myself because the informations are so misleading that I dont know which edit is correct. However I've reverted this ( Kingfisher East Bengal FC), still not sure whether it is correct. Have a look at this too [20] this is quite insane. Shriram ( talk) 19:18, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Instead of copypasting the whole discussion here, just post a link to the relevant talk page. This is going to duplicate discussion here and there--
Sodabottle (
talk) 17:58, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
To caveat: by "this discussion" you mean specifically the infobox portion thereof, yes? That's fine by me, we can cover template chat at the template page. There is still the larger issue of varna classification in the body of the article, and I think Foodie and I are on the same page there, so good positive steps. Again, I think in a lot of cases varna is worth mentioning somewhere in the lede, even if it is just "it's complicated (see below)", and goodness knows plenty of articles love to jam "Kshatriya" into the first sentence. It'll take some tweaking to get words that make all parties happy, but I hope we can agree that varna is: 1) complicated and changing 2) of great interest to readers and with echoing effects even in the modern day 3) sensitive and should be addressed with precision but without censorship or waffling. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 15:41, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Foodie 377. I too am having problems with the word "S*****". Some time ago, there was a proposal to use the word "Dalit" instead of "S*****". Do you think you are OK with it? I understand that it is the word which is supposed to be acceptable in North India and there would seem to be no distaste for that word there.- MangoWong ( talk) 16:37, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
I'm trying to expand and reference the article List of trade unions in the Singareni coal fields. I'm working on a draft at User:Soman/temp. However, I'm having problems encountering full election results, especially from 1998, 2001 and 2007 (and has any election been held 2011?). Could any Telugu-speaking editor check if there are news reports in Telugu on the election results? Also, to check if SGKS and Singareni Workers Union are one and the same? (I posted a query at WP:RDL) -- Soman ( talk) 23:52, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
I have proposed the renaming of a number of Tamil Nadu districts here- minor orthographic changes, but we would need to agree ( Crusoe8181 ( talk) 04:09, 3 August 2011 (UTC)).
Someone has asked me for an audio file for the Hindi pronunciation of Mamata Banerjee's name. I'm not able to make such a file - would anyone here be willing to make one? (A file for the Bengali pronunciation would be useful too, but it's specifically the Hindi pronunciation that I've been asked for.) -- Zundark ( talk) 11:50, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Please provide your feedback on the aforementioned AfD as its getting highly controversial by days. - Wikiglobaleditor ( talk) 08:53, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
I hope the discussions on whatever that was above are over. (or at least have lost interest & enthu.) I would hence like to bring to your notice some new things.
& so on.... People can be differentiated based on geographical living (even birth-place; thats dispute too) or the ancestry they belong to (even mother-tongue; thats dispute too) or other various things. As all these differentiations are valid, merger of these pages is not possible. (Especially with Punjabi & Bengali where the scope definitely goes beyond geo-borders.) But i dont think that we should have articles of these listings. They are always untidy, debating, redlinked, no-linked, fan-sites and what not. Wouldnt categories be sufficient for this cause of differentiation??? § Animeshkulkarni ( talk) 16:11, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Trying to copyedit the above page, but the list in the "Naher-E-Ambari" section has been written poorly enough to make me wonder if its in the right place (or if it should even be included). I personally believe that it should be removed, but I would really appreciate a member with a good grasp of English spelling and grammar to look over it and give me a second opinion so I can finish copyediting it. Many thanks. -- Skamecrazy123 ( talk) 18:36, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
I found this template:
and there an entry called "Punjab" is included. The article " East Punjab" gives the impression there was a state called East Punjab. What was the first name and when did it change? Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 15:12, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
Due to recent opposition to me cleaning up the naming in accordance with established consensus, User:SpacemanSpiff reporting me to ANI for doing so, and several other people telling me I am doing something the wrong way, I am now filing moves individually.
Inside Category:Villages in India when scanning two levels below, there are only three articles that use two commas, all the other 10000+ articles use at most one. RM's placed at:
Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 10:27, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Inside Category:Villages in India when scanning two levels below, all of the 1000+ articles that use a dab tag attached via comma use the basic place name, when not considering type indicators like taluk or district, capitalized. RM placed at:
Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 10:44, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Inside Category:Villages in India when scanning two levels below, I only found "Rajastan" once. This string redirects to Rajasthan, so it might be a variant name. 33 other articles use the variant Rajasthan. RM filed at
Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 11:18, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
No evidence found that Koonur is located in several "Nalgonda districts". RM filed at:
Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 14:04, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
No evidence found that anything like "Nalgonda dsitrict" exists while the cat says it is in Nalgonda district. RM filed at:
Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 14:29, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
These seven move requests have all been fulfilled. What would have cost me 1-2 min, did cost me more than 15 min. And the admins that performed them and closed the requests probably needed another 5min. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 22:33, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi,
Need comments on Hindu Jatis on discussion going on Talk:Kurmi#Source_for_Shudra Shudra source.
Views about how Wikipedia standards on Reliable Sources are enforced on pages related to Hinduism/Hindu Jatis are also welcome, for it appears to me that these are enforced on Hindu Jatis tightly for to consider reliable sources only, not otherwise.
As also, from my side, I would like to point out how admins have missed it completely, perhaps since last 3/4 months, that these are about Hindu Jatis and are treating the subject as a kind where all standards must be enforced and anyone who insists otherwise is to be treated strictly as per usual Wikipedia norms. ..असक्तः सततं कार्य कर्म समाचर | असक्तः हि आचरन् कर्म.. Humour Thisthat2011 08:26, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Or you could have let people give comments on this discussion here.
I guess the comments about whether RS criteria should be strictly enforced for Hindu Jatis page, including legends, referring Puranas, etc. could be commented here or there then. ..असक्तः सततं कार्य कर्म समाचर | असक्तः हि आचरन् कर्म.. Humour Thisthat2011 17:42, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
You all are judging what others have done, which is not job of editors on Wikipedia. You have gone at length to justify why to avoid legends/beliefs which is somehow not mentioned as job of editors on Wikipedia. ..ईती ईती नॆती नॆती.. Humour Thisthat2011 17:12, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Can you please stop personal attacks like "It is a few weeks since you wasted everyone's time here with your Kurmi POV."???. It is nothing more than disgusting to me. He did not waste my time. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 15:06, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
varņa means class. There are 4 classes, brāhmaņa, kśatriya, vaiśya and śūdra. One makes a choice ("vŗņoti"), based on one's aptitude (guņa) and work (karma), as to which class (varņa) one would belong to. I don't know what śūdra means, but it is said that [everyone] is born a śūdra by birth (janmanā jāyate śūdrah) and becomes a twice-born (dvija) [brāhmaņa, kśatriya or vaiśya] by culture (samskāra) [education and training] (samskārāt dvija ucyate). To the best of my knowledge the Shāstras do not talk about jāti per se.
Kanchanamala (
talk) 02:44, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
- - - - - - - - - - - - WikiConference India 2011 - - - - - - - - - - - - | ||
---|---|---|
Hi, Noticeboard for India-related topics, The First WikiConference India is being organized in Mumbai and will take place on 18-20 November 2011. Official website Facebook event 100 day long WikiOutreach Scholarship form | ||
As you are part of WP:IND community we invite you to be there for conference and share your experience.Thank you for your contributions. | ||
We look forward to see you at Mumbai on 18-20 November 2011 |
I have been trying to find a suitable map that shows Rajasthan/Rajputana in relation to the Mughal and Maratha territories around the time of James Tod. Even better would be a free use version of Tod's own map of central India. Can't find anything that suits - suggestions welcome. - Sitush ( talk) 21:12, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
While on maps, if anyone can move the Commons file pushpin map File:Orissa locator map.svg to File:Odisha locator map.svg this should now allow the state to be named Odisha in infobox and a pushpin map to appear (I've done the rest, I think, see Hinjilicut et al, just not sure how to copy the map) ( Crusoe8181 ( talk) 03:24, 9 August 2011 (UTC)).
At the article Mannadiar, a new-reg came in, blanked the article and put in a new one (content appears to be summarised, poorly, from some kind of anthro source) about a clan in the Palakkad area. The other editor restored the article, and the article has a blurb mentioning "not the same as the Palakkad Mannadiyar clan". I can't quite tell if these are really two different groups which have a very similar name, the same group and the fighting is just a content fork or what.
If anyone has a better grasp on Kerala social groups, input here would be cool. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 20:50, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
The article misri (apparently cakes of sugar crystals) has no pic; does anyone here have this stuff just sitting on their kitchen table at the moment, and can upload a pic? Just seems an easy thing to find a pic for amongst the Indian editors. Thanks! MatthewVanitas ( talk) 20:50, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
This NYT article mentions "Dabba Kali" - A children's game in India. It says that there are few sources about it, but many people play it: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/08/business/media/a-push-to-redefine-knowledge-at-wikipedia.html?_r=1&ref=noamcohen
So, would anyone have any idea on what sources out there talk about it? WhisperToMe ( talk) 16:25, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
An user moved this page without any discussion. I think this move is unfair. They should have left this page as such. They should create a new page for the region if they feel the need. Thanks Shyamsunder ( talk) 10:27, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi there! I thought I would inform Indian Wikipedians about this candidate at Featured pictures since this is in the scope of WikiProject India. Avenue X at Cicero ( talk) 10:58, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
Is it reasonable to assume that possession of a last name, such as Menon or Pillai, is sufficient to establish that person to be a Nair per WP:V? What about when the last names are even Nair or Nayar? I am a bit reluctant to make this sort assumption but other people may differ. The same issue applies, obviously, to numerous other communities. I am aware that there have been surveys showing that, for example, 72% of respondents would not countenance marriage outside their own community but that still leaves 28% who were presumably ok about it or at least had no strong opinion on the matter. - Sitush ( talk) 12:37, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Please see here. Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 04:35, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
The following is an extract from the Indian Independence Act 1947:
[Section]1.-(i) As from the fifteenth day of August, ninteen hundred and forty-seven, two independent Dominions shall be set up in India, to be known respectively as India and Pakistan.
The following are a sample (sample only) of the many treaties during the period that India was a Dominion. In none is India described as the "Dominion of India":
There is no dispute but that India was indeed a Dominion between 1947 and 1949. However, it is abundantly clear that both its common name and its official name was never the " Dominion of India" although that term was used sometimes. Accordingly the article called " Dominion of India" should be moved to something more appropriate e.g. " India (Dominion)" and the article revised accordingly. I want to raise this here so as to (i) reach consensus as to the facts; (ii) agree where the article should be moved. NelsonSudan ( talk) 18:38, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Shri H. V. Kamath : Sir, is it very necessary to say "the Government of the Dominion of India ?" Is it not enough to say "the Government of India?" Mr. President : There is a confusion. The Government of India means. also the Government of India under the new Constitution, but the Government of the Dominion of India means the Government which was in power before the commencement of the Constitution. I think it is to avoid that confusion that this amendment is brought in. - Source [23]
Which WP policies say it is required to not use a name that was used in official documents but in itself was not official? Which WP policies say it is required to not use a name that was a commonly used name in official documents and that was especially used to distinguish it from another object (India), but maybe was not a WP:COMMON name in the past? Regarding the example " India (Dominion)", WP:MoS would require " India (dominion)". Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 13:22, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
"Article 270
Mr. President: Then we go to article 270.
Mr. Naziruddin Ahmad (West Bengal: Muslim): Mr. President, Sir, I beg to move:
"That in article 270, the words 'the Dominion of' be deleted."
The word 'Dominion' is applicable to India as it is constituted today. In the new set-up of things which is being drawn by this Consititution the word 'Dominion' or the idea of any Dominion would be repugnant to our Constitution. That is why I have sought the deletion of this. If the deletion is accepted the passage will run thus namely "the Government of India" and not" the Government of the Dominion of India".
(Amendment No. 2976 was not moved.)
The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Sir, I move:
"That with reference to amendments Nos. 2975 and 2976 of the List of Amendments, in article 270, for the words 'assets and liabilities' the words 'assests, liabilities and obligations' be substituted."
Now, as regards the amendment moved by Mr. Naziruddin Ahmad, may I say that he has evidently forgotten that we are using the words "Government of India" to indicate the Government that will come into existence under the new Constitution, while the "Government of the Dominion of India" is a term which is being used to indicate the Government at the present moment? Consequently, if his amendment is accepted is accepted it would mean that the Government of India is succeeding to the liabilities, obligations and assests of the Government of India. It would make absurd reading. Therefore the words as they are there are very appropriate and ought to be retained."
Regarding my questions above and the reply by Nelson, I like to ask this: Is there a WP policy requiring using a past common name? I.e. can't we choose a common name as of today? What is the common name of "India (dominion)" today? I think there is some freedom in the titles applied. "India (dominion)" is not something one would use in speech, but Dominion of India is and it is also documented that this was used in the past. Bogdan Nagachop ( talk) 15:12, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
I'm getting so little input I feel like the only interested editor. NelsonSudan ( talk) 18:24, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Yes, the official name of India 1947-1950 was indeed the "Dominion of India"
here's a Treaty of Friendship between India and Switzerland, dated 14th August 1948: http://www.indiaswitzerland.in/jubilee/index.php?link_id=98&parent_id=87&type=general, or to give it it's full title: "TREATY OF FRIENDSHIP AND ESTABLISHMENT BETWEEN HIS MAJESTY THE KING OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND IRELAND AND OF THE BRITISH DOMINIONS BEYOND THE SEAS, ON BEHALF OF THE DOMINION OF INDIA, AND THE SWISS CONFEDERATION"
-the term 'Dominion of India' is used extensively: "on behalf of the Dominion of India", Article 1:"There shall be perpetual peace and unalterable friendship between the Dominion of India and Switzerland." Final protocol: "...between His Majesty the King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and of the British Dominions beyond the Seas, on behalf of the Dominion of India", "may in future accede to the Dominion of India", "which secure in the Dominion of India", "preferences which the Dominion of India accords" JWULTRABLIZZARD ( talk) 09:02, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
-also lookee here: http://www.archontology.org/nations/india/01_polity.php -HOWEVER I do agree however that the 'dominion' articles for Pakistan (which was NOT called the 'Dominion of Pakistan' except in very occasional; sporadic official use) and also Ceylon (whose official name was 'Island of Ceylon', not 'Dominion of Ceylon') should be moved. JWULTRABLIZZARD ( talk) 11:25, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Note: I have removed the banner from the article page linking to this discussion. (1) Move requests need to go through process at WP:RM, not a discussion on the project page, (2) the initiator is blocked as a sock, (3) even ignoring the other two issues, there isn't any support for the proposal. This doesn't preclude anyone interested from opening a proper move request on the article talk page. — Spaceman Spiff 11:34, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
We have a new user User:Jenakarthik running a bot to create Tamil Nadu village articles. See [24]. The user has been advised to get bot approval. I would like to get this to attention of the India project members. The reference that is given for the demographics, Voiceofbharat.org sounds dubious to me. Thoughts? Kattunaval is an example. — Ganeshk ( talk) 04:06, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
I created an article about Sher Bahadur Singh, a member of the Uttar Pradesh Legislative Assembly. It might be worthwhile for someone or a bot to create stubs for all the current and past members of the Uttar Pradesh Legislative Assembly and Legislative Council, since they are automatically notable as members of a state legislature, in both the Hindi and English Wikipedias. Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 02:06, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
Please check the signature of Nazeer Akbarabadi in his biographical article - it is just a print of the name and not signature. Hindustanilanguage ( talk) 08:36, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Kolkata#Requesting_move.2C_again. Zuggernaut ( talk) 04:31, 28 August 2011 (UTC) Zuggernaut ( talk) 04:31, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
This notice is to advise interested editors that a Contributor copyright investigation has been opened which may impact this project. Such investigations are launched when contributors have been found to have placed copyrighted content on Wikipedia on multiple occasions. It may result in the deletion of images or text and possibly articles in accordance with Wikipedia:Copyright violations. The specific investigation which may impact this project is located here.
All contributors with no history of copyright problems are welcome to contribute to CCI clean up. There are instructions for participating on that page. Additional information may be requested from the user who placed this notice, at the process board talkpage, or from an active CCI clerk. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:05, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
I kindly request editors to comment on two similar, but very distinct RMs here and here. Do note that the situations in both the requests are quite different, and bears resemblance to the recent RM on Gandhi. Lynch 7 14:03, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
Can we put up Adopt-an-Article as WP:POST in WP:IND -- naveenpf ( talk) 03:48, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
This article ( Rasa shastra) is in desperate need of some help from somebody whose understanding of the source material and access to sources is better than mine. Some earlier versions in the history had rather promotional souding supernatural and medical claims, and these drew attention. - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 04:08, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
The map of India that Wikipedia shows is illegal in India. Wiki-India will be held in Mumbai which is in India, and where Indian laws hold jurisdiction. What will be done so that laws are not broken? The outreach programme etc also mentions books, cds, and other offline material. Yogesh Khandke ( talk) 20:23, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
It is not a simple matter of fussing about a map or two. This is a matter of Sovereign India and it's map. All it may take to get a great fuss is to file a Public Interest Litigation in any Indian court. Both the Shudra stuff and Indian map has the potential to land people behind bars. I hope it don't get into any issues as I have used the word to answer a few questions. One more thing, to file a PIL it takes just 6£ or 10$. That's it. Propagating a wrong map of India by an Indian amounts to treason. So I hope anyone with knowledge of Indian laws can pitch in. Nameisnotimportant ( talk) 23:49, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
A small clarification - I am not involved with the chapter. Some months back i raised the issue in the WM India public mailing list. There was talk of getting legal advice but i dont know what happened after that.-- Sodabottle ( talk) 15:02, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
I am not sure what the Wikimedia Chapter in India has to do with this or even can do with this. We are very clear that we have no control over the contents of Wikipedia/Commons and it would be appropriate to direct queries on this to the Foundation. Reference. Gkjohn ( talk) 15:43, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
That this real and important problem has been brought up is in itself a good thing. Ideally it should have been addressed by now but it is difficult to see whether the Wikipedia community of editors is capable of addressing this and other similar issues. The reason for this is well known - the Wikipedia community is hardly a cross-section of the society. It is mainly made up of urban elite who are closer to their teenage years than to middle age or even the 30s and 40s. At the same time it is unlikely that external organisations or institutions like the ones pointed out above are going to take up the issue right now. As Wikipedia attracts more of the same type of editors, things may become worse before they improve. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.163.30.21 ( talk) 05:51, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
A follow-up to the original concern about potential legal liability for people going to the Indian meet-up): Community liason MDennis checked with the Foundation, and, unfortunately, they have no helpful information. You can see their actual reply at User Talk:Mdennis (WMF)#Question regarding India from some Chapter members. Sorry that that doesn't can't give you all any more piece of mind. Qwyrxian ( talk) 12:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)