![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Check out the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Hinduism#Naming_and_Transliteration. It might be helpful. -- Dangerous-Boy 02:47, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
{{koreanname noimage| Devangiri=허황옥| English transliteration=許黃玉| south indian script=Heo Hwang-ok| English transliteration=Hŏ Hwang-ok| }}
I have some reservations about the proposed merge of the transliteration guide, posted at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(Dharmic). Imc 21:22, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
1 Romanization of names
1.1 Name order 1.2 Family name 1.3 Given name 1.4 Royalty
2 Place names 2.1 Province 2.2 Other administrative divisions
or
1 English words of Indic origin 2 Romanisation
2.1 Article titles 2.2 Category link sorting of macronned titles 2.3 Alphabetic order
3 Indic terms
3.1 Template
4 Names
4.1 Names of historical figures 4.2 Names of modern figures 4.3 Pseudonyms 4.4 Names of emperors 4.5 Names of fictional characters 4.6 Place names 4.6.1 Suffixes 4.6.2 Temples and shrines 4.6.3 Train and Subway stations
4.7 Names of companies, products, and organizations 4.8 Names in titles
-- Dangerous-Boy 00:11, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
In the Amrita Pritama example, the as at the end of the two words are always pronounced in Sanskrit but not in Hindustani, so dropping the a would only be correct in a Hindustani context. -- Grammatical error 18:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
(This was copied from my post on the discussion page of the Dharmic naming conventions article and only concerns Sanskrit.) Why is the Devanāgarī equivalent for most Sanskrit words and names always included in articles? Should it have any special privilage over other Indic scripts which are also used to write Sanskrit and can represent the sounds just as accurately (like Grantha or Malayalam, but unlike Tamil because of its lack of aspirates) on the English Wikipedia. I think it would be better to just include the IAST. -- Grammatical error 05:38, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Mahitgar 10:14, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
This statement from "Dharmic": "Transliterated terms from Sanskrit and Pāli should take advantage of Unicode diacritics; for example, 'Nirvāṇa'," appears to contradict the statement in the next paragraph: "If a primary transliteration cannot be clearly established, then the article name should be be written in either a formal transliteration or a simplified transliteration," (not to mention perhaps contradicting the injunction to use a primary transcription if it exists). - Nat Krause( Talk!) 05:08, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I propose that this be explicitly restricted to older history. It will be difficult to include those more recent figures who are usually well known in the idiosyncratic spellings derived from English.
e.g.
should they be combined?-- D-Boy 06:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I've been spending most of my time fixing this article up (which now looks a lot better than it once was) and I spent quite some time ensuring everything was a formal ISO transliteration. However, many people have objected to this over use of formal transliterations and many people dislike diacritics.
Just thought I'd mention my experience with implementing proper transliterations. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 20:30, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
Please take a look at Template:Indic. I've been working to make the IAST template obsolete. This wraps the text in the Unicode class and appends the language name based on language code. You can override showing the language name by including option 'x'. Please give your thoughts.... Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 00:08, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
What needs to be confirmed about Malayalam t? The geminate symbol is the only one available in unicode. When it follows other consonants, one or two r symbols are written below the previous consonant. -- Grammatical error 06:30, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
What is the point of "simplifying" the ISO "c" and "ch" to "ch" and "chh" (which just looks ugly)? In this case, both the academic and the simplified transliteration should be the same. -- Grammatical error 16:04, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone wish to finish merging while I complete the transliteration tables? Once they're merged we can begin a final check and put it up for review as a proper policy. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 19:13, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I've moved the transliteration table to Wikipedia:Indic transliteration scheme because it was taking up too much space. Hopefully this will enable us to finish this section and then concentrate on the specifics of transliteration. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 16:07, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I propose that South Indian names like A.K. Gopalan, B.T. Ranadive, etc. should not have a space in the 'initials'. These are not initials in the Western sense, and it is the name given after these that functions as a western first name. -- Soman 11:34, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
I think this proposal is a good idea and it's well-written; however as most of the work was (apparently) done by a single person, maybe it's a good idea to ask around on the Village Pump and/or related WikiProjects to get some more feedback on it? Other than that I'd say it's fully acceptable as an NC. >Radiant< 20:59, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
This is probably be a minefield best avoided for this project. However, are there any attempts at providing a standard anywhere else? They could be referred to here. Imc 22:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
It is difficult to find any information or list defining personal titles like Sri/Shri, Guru, etc. Is there such an article on Wikipedia, and if not, is there someone who would volunteer to write one? -- Blainster 17:59, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
?-- D-Boy 23:53, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
interesting discussion -- D-Boy 07:28, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
A merge with WP:Manual of Style (Indic-related articles) was suggested a long time ago, and the other page contains little information compared to this page, so I will merge the two. -- Shruti14 t c s 04:52, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm afraid these are very much proposed guidelines and the template should not have been removed. The "Titles and honorifics" section is especially problematic and full of errors. It says,
"Examples are Mahatma Gandhi where Mahatma is an honorific, Sri Chand where 'Sri' is a title, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada where Swami and Prabhupada are honorific, and Chandrasekharendra Saraswati Kanchi Mahaswamigal where Kanchi Mahaswamigal is an honorific."
Neither the Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi page nor the Chandrasekharendra Saraswati page has the honorifics attached. That is in keeping with WP:NAMEPEOPLE (paragraph 2 on qualifiers), which allows qualifiers (like "Saint," "Queen," (and "Mahatma") etc. only if they are essential for disambiguation (as they are in Mother Teresa or Alfred the Great), but not for other situations, where they are not (as in St. Francis of Assisi)
Similarly all the other South Asia pages links with the honorifics like: Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, Maulana Azad, Allama Iqbal, Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose, Pandit Ravi Shankar, Ustad Bismillah Khan, Ustad Allauddin Khan, are redirected to the simple names.
There is no reason why a special dispensation (with regards honorifics) should be made for Indic names when it is not made in WP:NAMEPEOPLE. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 18:26, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I've dropped advice of this discussion at Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography, Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (clergy), and Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (people) LeadSongDog come howl! 18:38, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
A discussion involving Bengali romanization issues has been instigated at Talk:Bengali script. Please weigh in if you care. — AjaxSmack 02:04, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
There are many inconsistencies in the formatting of the current titles of several Hinduism and India related articles. Some articles use an English title, while others use a transliterated title (generally using an ISO standard or IAST), and often the chosen title is the word used to refer to the subject throughout the article. It was discussed that some of these articles should be moved to achieve consistency. I personally think that in accordance with WP:NCIN (a proposed guideline) and WP:EN (an established guideline), all articles with transliterated titles should be moved to English titles, and the English word should be used throughout the article, with the transliteration referred to in the lead. Articles such as Mahābhārata and Jyotiṣa, for example, would be moved to Mahabharata and Jyotisha, respectively, and the new title would be the preferred reference to the subject throughout the article, with the transliteration mentioned in the lead. This is also the standard used by other Wikipedia articles with non-Latin titles. -- Shruti14 talk • sign 19:39, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
I copy here a notification written by User:64.229.101.183 on an ongoing discussion about the term "Avatar" in case there are people who wish to participate. Hoverfish Talk 13:51, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Any attempt at coordinating transcription conventions with Urdu? — kwami ( talk) 20:24, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Forgive me if this has been addressed on another page, I am a new wikipedian. I have read the Indic naming conventions page but I am still unsure. Perhaps someone can direct me to the correct discussion or information.
In articles concerning Buddhist or Hindu terminologies, there doesn't seem to be a standard for Sanskrit names in the introduction (as outlined on the Naming conventions page). Some articles ( ex.) use IAST, others ( ex.) only Devanagari, and still others according to different combinations of IAST/Devanagari and simplified/Devanagari. Are there standards for this? If so, is there a single standard or separate standards according to categorization in Hinduism or Buddhism?
Thanks. Cm3866 ( talk) 20:54, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Per above RM is Jagadguru part of article title? In ictu oculi ( talk) 01:57, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
I've changed the text on titles and honorifics to refer to and reflect MOS for biographies.
IMO the same policy should apply to deities. Imc ( talk) 07:04, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
I posted this already at the Noticeboard for India-related topics but haven't received any response yet; so I'm posting it here in a more specific location. I know there is a policy of not using honorifics but I think Nirmala Srivastava should be an exception since she is more widely known as Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi. There has been a discussion on the talk page and I think the most conclusive argument is that academic articles on the subject use the honorific title far more often. I'm sure as time goes on Nirmala Srivastava will be known even less by the name she was born with and more widely known by her spiritual name considering the worldwide following she has as Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi. Any thoughts? Freelion ( talk) 22:42, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
(moved from WT:Manual of Style (Indic-related articles), which should redirect to here:)
My inputs on this issue with references to the article Ramanuja :
1- related to Hindi/Marathi/Nepal linguistic area 2- related to Sanskrit literature 3- related to basic concepts of Dharmic religions.
1- Just for 'any' personality with Sanskrit-based names. 2- Just for 'anything' related to Hinduism.
(Popular hinduism is considered to have multiple origins - other than sanskritic roots)
3- Just for 'anything' Indian.
Best case in point is the controversial template for Indian personalities with just English & Hindi (as in Mahatma_Gandhi , P_V_Narasimha_Rao etc)
thanks.
I made this commentary in the article on Bhaktivedānta Svāmī, but moved it here at the suggestion of LeadSongDog. The problem of honorifics, especially Asian honorifics, has certainly posted confusion and difficulties for researchers, historians and encyclopedists for decades. However, I think that a reasonable, acceptable, and manageable (not perfect) level of standards can be applied to the situation, always working towards an objective and non-devotional report and avoiding the worshipful non-critical approach that all believers have for their heroes and gods. I am just wishing that the following table I made might contribute to the deliberation and the attainment of a resolution to the issue. Notice that except for four names, the Wikipedia article titles all contain honorifics. (By the way, "ji," "jī," "jee," "jii," "jiew," "joo," "jiu," etc are all the same honorific suffix. Obviously, the same goes for Śrī, Siri, Shri, Shree, Shrii, Śrīla, Śrīman, Śrīmati, Śrīmat, Śrīmad, Śrī Śrī, Śrī Śrī Śrī.)
Wikipedia Article Title | Formal (Neutral) Name | Popular (Devotional) Name |
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada | Abhaya Caranāravinda Bhaktivedānta Svāmī | His Divine Grace Śrīla Prabhupāda |
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura | Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī | His Divine Grace Om Viśnupāda Paramahamsa Parivrājakācārya 108 Śrī Śrīmad Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja Prabhupāda |
Chris Butler, Siddha Svarūpa dāsa, Siddhasvarūpānanda Gosvāmī | His Divine Grace Jagat Guru Chris Butler Siddhaswarupananda Goswami Paramahamsa Prabhupad | |
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu | Krsna Caitanya | Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu |
Mahatma Gandhi | Mohandās Karamchand Gāndhī | Mahātma Gāndhī, Gāndhījī, Bapu |
Lahiri Mahasaya | Syāma Caran Lahirī | Yogavatār Yogirāj Śrī Śrī Lahirī Mahāsaya |
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi | Mahesh Prasād Warma, Mahesh Yogī | His Holiness Mahārishi Mahesh Yogī |
Kirtanananda Swami | Kīrtanānanda Svāmī | His Holiness Swāmī Bhaktipād |
Krishna | Krsna | Bhagavan Śrī Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead |
Ramana Maharshi | Rāmana | Bhagavan Śrī Rāmana Mahārshi |
Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh | Rajneesh | Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh |
Sri Chinmoy | Chinmoy | Śrī Chinmoy |
Sri Aurobindo | Aurobindo Ghose | Śrī Aurobindo |
Sri Sri Harichand Thakur | Harichand Biswas | Śrī Śrī Harichand Thakur |
Adi Shankara | Śankara | Śrī Śrī Śrī Śankarācārya Bhagavatpāda |
Ramakrishna | Svāmī Rāmakrsna Puri | Guru Mahārāj, Śrī Śrī Rāmakrsna Paramahamsa, Thākur |
Brahmananda Saraswati | Jagadguru Śankarācārya Svāmī Brahmānanda Sarasvatī | Guru Dev |
Yukteswar Giri | Svāmī Śrīyukteśwara Giri | Gyānavatār Śrī Śrīmat Svāmī Śrīyukteśwara Giri Mahārāj |
Satyananda Giri | Svāmī Satyānanda Giri | Svāmi Satyānanda Giri Mahārāj |
Shivapuri Baba | Svāmī Govindānanda Bhāratī | Shivapuri Bābā |
Hazur Rai Saligram Bahadur | Sālig Rām | Huzūr Mahārāj |
Brahm Shankar Miśra | Mahārāj Sāheb | |
Mādhav Prasād Sinha | Babujī Mahārāj | |
Ajudhyā Prasād | Lālājī Mahārāj | |
Gur Prasād | Kunwarjī Mahārāj | |
Agam Prasād Mathur | Dadajī Mahārāj | |
Baba Kirtan Singh Ji | Kīrtan Singh | Bābā Kīrtan Singh Jī |
Baba Sawan Singh | Sāwan Singh Grewal | Hazūr Bābā Sāwan Singh Jī Mahārāj |
Charan Singh (guru) | Charan Singh Grewal | Huzūr Mahārāj Charan Singh Jī |
Param Sant Kanwar Saheb | Kanwar Singh | Param Sant Huzūr Kanwar Sāhebjī Mahārāj |
Hans Ji Maharaj | Hansrām Singh Rawat | Param Sant Sadgurudev Hans Jī Mahārāj |
Maharishi Shiv Brat Lal | Shiv Brat Lāl Verman | Data Dayal Mahārishi Shiv Brat Lāl Jī |
Baba Faqir Chand | Faqīr Chand | Param Dayāl Bābā Faqīr Chand Jī Mahārāj |
Nisargadatta Maharaj | Nisargadatta | Śrī Nisargadatta Mahārāj |
Siddharameshwar Maharaj | Siddharāmeśwar | Śrī Siddharāmeshwar Mahārāj |
Ganapatrao Maharaj Kannur | Ganapatrao Kannur | Shrī Samartha Sadguru Ganapatrao Mahārāj Kannur |
Asaram Bapu | Asaram | Sant Śrī Asaramjī Bapu |
Lakshman Joo | Laksman Raina | Swāmī Lakshman Joo |
Prabhat Ranjan Sarkar | Prabhāt Rañjan Sarkār | Param Pitá Bábá Shrii Shrii Ánandamúrtijii |
Mahāvīra | Vardhamana | Mahāvīra |
Nirmala Srivastava | Nirmala Śrīvastava | Shrī Nirmala Devī Mātājī |
Adi Da | Franklin Albert Jones | Bubba Free John, Da Free John, Naitaubha Avadhuta Da Love-Ananda Hridayam, Da Avabhasa, Adi Da |
Oliver Puertogallera ( talk) 01:54, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This naming convention has been essentially stable for over a year. It's past time we discussed promoting it. Please comment constructively, including linked wikipolicy-based reasons for your position, and describing any edits that would be necessary to resolve problems with the page. This RFC will be listed at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style and Wikipedia:Village pump (policy). LeadSongDog come howl! 17:52, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
The section of "Titles and honorifics" of this guideline gives list of titles/honorifics "which should be questioned" when used. But i think that such list should include examples of exceptions as well there by giving clear information. Also, if there have been multiple discussions on any particular name, those needs to be recorded here by providing links to those discussions. We have enlisted a few titles/honorifics in that section but we still have article with them in article name. Hence i think its better to list them over here. This might open Pandora's box in some cases, but the bandage has to be ripped off at some time. We have following articles which could be exceptions or requiring move.
Please enlist other articles also as and when you find. If on cursory discussion here we find these titles in article names to be okay, i propose them to be listed as exceptions in the guideline. If we have some editor opposing any particular example, we can take the
WP:MOVE way case by case on their respective talk pages. §§
Dharmadhyaksha§§ {
T/
C}
09:10, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
I think we should get rid of all honorifics except in those cases (a) where it is clearly a part of the common name and (b) where it may be necessary for disambiguation. The religious ones, in particular, are suspect since almost anyone can have a Bhagwan or Swami attached to their name and it's not for us to decide which ones are worthy of the honorific and which ones are not. So, for example, I think Guru Nanak is fine because he is well known, and commonly known by that name, but Guru Hargobind is not. As for the various Lords in the list above, the don't satisfy WP:NCPEER and need to be moved. -- regentspark ( comment) 14:00, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Currently the policy says that the primary transliteration is established if at least 75% of all references in wider English usage are of that form. This now seems a bit loose to me, since it doesn't take account of other aspects of naming policy. I suggest that it be changed to if at least 75% of all references in reliable references in wider English usage. Imc ( talk) 08:35, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
Opinion and guessing have their value, but factual information is often better. By way of the following table, I would like to demonstrate the inconsistent style of Wikipedia titling in connection with naming, and hence the need for some system of uniformity. As can be seen, it seems that Wikipedia titling shows arbitrariness, sometimes following the popular and devotional style (with honorifics), and then a formal non-devotional style at other times.
Wikipedia Article Title | Formal (Neutral) Name | Popular (Devotional) Name |
Charan Singh (guru) | Charan Singh Grewal | Maharaj Charan Singh Ji |
Baba Sawan Singh | Sawan Singh Grewal | Hazur Baba Sawan Singh Ji Maharaj |
Param Sant Kanwar Saheb | Kanwar Singh | Param Sant Huzur Kanwar Sahebji Maharaj |
Hans Ji Maharaj | Hansram Singh Rawat | Param Sant Satgurudev Hans Ji Maharaj |
Maharishi Shiv Brat Lal | Shiv Brat Lal Verman | Maharishi Shiv Brat Lal Ji |
Baba Faqir Chand | Faqīr Chand | Param Dayal Baba Faqir Chand Ji Maharaj |
Nisargadatta Maharaj | Nisargadatta | Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj |
Siddharameshwar Maharaj | Siddharameśvar | Sri Siddharameshwar Maharaj |
Ganapatrao Maharaj Kannur | Ganapatrao Kannur | Shri Samartha Sadaguru Ganapatrao Maharaj Kannur |
Asaram Bapu | Asaram | Sant Sri Asaramji Bapu |
Lakshman Joo | Lakshman Raina | Swami Lakshman Joo |
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi | Mahesh Yogī | His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi |
Brahmananda Saraswati | Svāmī Brahmānanda Sarasvatī | Guru Dev |
Lahiri Mahasaya | Shyāma Charan Lahirī | Yogiraj Sri Sri Lahiri Mahasaya |
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada | Abhaya Caranaravinda Bhaktivedānta Svāmī | His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada |
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati | Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī | His Divine Grace Om Visnupada Paramahamsa Parivrajakacarya 108 Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja Prabhupada |
Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh | Rajneesh | Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh |
Sri Aurobindo | Aurobindo Ghose | Sri Aurobindo |
Sri Chinmoy | Chinmoy | Sri Chinmoy |
Mahatma Gandhi | Mohandās Karamchand Gāndhī | Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhiji, Bapu |
Yukteswar Giri | Svāmī Śrīyukteśvara Giri | Gyanavatar Sri Srimat Swami Sriyukteswara Maharaj |
Satyananda Giri | Svāmī Satyānanda Giri | Swami Satyananda Giri Maharaj |
Satyananda Saraswati | Svāmī Satyānanda Sarasvatī | Paramhansa Swami Satyananda |
Sivananda Saraswati | Swāmī Sivānanda Sarasvatī | His Holiness Mahapurusha Sivananda Maharaj |
Ramana Maharshi | Rāmana | Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi |
Hazur Rai Saligram Bahadur | Salig Rām | Huzur Maharaj |
Govindananda Bharati | Svāmī Govindānanda Bhāratī | Shivapuri Baba |
Mahāprajña | Mahāprajñā | Acharya Mahaprajna |
Mahasharman | Mahāsarman | Acharya Mahasharman |
Acharya Tulsi | Tulsī | Acharya Tulsi |
Advaita Acharya | Advaita | Advaita Acharya |
Bhagavan Das (yogi) | Bhagavan Dās | Bhagavan Das |
Bhagwan Gopinath | Gopināth | Bhagwan Gopinath Ji |
Bhakti Caitanya Swami | Bhakti Caitanya Svāmī | His Grace Srila Bhakti Chaitanya Swami Maharaja |
Bhakti Charu Swami | Bhakti Caru Svāmī | Srila Bhakti Charu Swami Maharaja |
Bhakti Tirtha Swami | Bhakti Tirtha Svāmī | His Holiness Srila Bhakti Tirtha Swami Krsnapada |
Bhaktisvarupa Damodar Swami | Bhaktisvarūpa Damodara Svāmī | His Holiness Srila Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Swami Maharaja |
Brahmanand Swami | Brahmānand Svāmī | Paramhansa Brahmanand Swami |
Giriraja Swami | Girirāja Svāmī | His Holiness Srila Giriraja Swami Maharaja |
Gopalanand Swami | Gopalānand Svāmī | Paramhansa Gopalanand Swami |
Gour Govinda Swami | Gaura Govinda Svāmī | Srila Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja |
Gunatitanand Swami | Gunatitānand Svāmī | Paramhansa Gunatitanand Swami |
Guru Amar Das | Amar Dās | Guru Amar Das |
Guru Angad | Angad | Guru Angad |
Guru Arjan | Arjan | Guru Arjan Dev |
Guru Gobind Singh | Gobind Singh | Guru Gobind Singh |
Guru Har Krishan | Har Krishan | Guru Har Krishan |
Guru Har Rai | Har Rāi | Guru Har Rai |
Guru Hargobind | Hargobind | Guru Hargobind |
Guru Nanak | Nānak | Guru Nanak Dev |
Guru Ram Das | Rām Dās | Guru Ram Das |
Guru Ravidass | Rāvidās | Guru Ravidassji |
Guru Tegh Bahadur | Tyag Mal Sodhi | Guru Tegh Bahadur |
Hansadutta Swami | Hamsaduta Svāmī | His Divine Grace Srila Hansadutta Swami Maharaja |
Indradyumna Swami | Indradyumna Svāmī | His Grace Srila Indradyumna Swami Maharaja |
Jayadvaita Swami | Jayadvaita Svāmī | His Grace Srila Jayadvaita Swami Maharaja |
Jayapataka Swami | Jayapataka Svāmī | His Divine Grace Srila Jayapataka Swami Maharaja |
Kirtanananda Swami | Kirtanānanda Svāmī | His Divine Grace Srila Kirtanananda Swami Bhaktipada |
Muktanand Swami | Muktānand Svāmī | Paramhansa Muktanand Swami |
Niralamba Swami | Niralamba Svāmī | Niralamba Swami |
Radhanath Swami | Rādhānātha Svāmī | Srila Radhanath Swami |
Raghavendra Swami | Raghavendra Tīrtha Svāmī | Sri Raghavendra Swamigal |
Sacinandana Swami | Sacinandana Svāmī | His Grace Sachinandana Swami |
Soham Swami | Soham Svāmī | Tiger Swami |
Sri Bharati Tirtha | Jagadguru Śankarācārya Svāmī Bhāratī Tirtha | His Holiness Sri Sannidhanam 108 Sri Sri Sri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamigalu |
Swami Abhedananda | Svāmī Abhedānanda Puri | Swami Abhedananda |
Swami Adbhutananda | Svāmī Adbhutānanda Puri | Latu Maharaj |
Swami Advaitananda | Svāmī Advaitānanda Puri | Buro Gopal |
Swami Akhandananda | Svāmī Akhandānanda Puri | Swami Akhandananda |
Swami Atmajnanananda | Svāmī Atmajñānānanda Puri | Swami Atmajnanananda |
Swami Brahmananda | Svāmī Brahmānanda Puri | Rakhal Maharaj |
Swami Gambhirananda | Svāmī Gambhirānanda Puri | Swami Gambhirananda |
Swami Haridas | Haridās | Swami Haridas |
Lakshmanananda Saraswati | Svāmī Laksmanānanda Sarasvatī | Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati |
Swami Madhavananda | Svāmī Madhavānanda Puri | Swami Madhavananda |
Swami Maheshwarananda | Maheśvarānanda | Paramhansa Swami Maheshwarananda |
Swami Nikhilananda | Svāmī Nikhilānanda Puri | Swami Nikhilananda |
Niranjanananda | Svāmī Nirañjanānanda Puri | Swami Niranjan Maharaj |
Niranjanananda Saraswati | Svāmī Nirañjanānanda Sarasvatī | Swami Niranjanananda Saraswati |
Nirmalananda | Svāmī Nirmalānanda Puri | Swami Nirmalananda |
Swami Paramananda | Svāmī Paramānanda Puri | Swami Paramananda |
Swami Prabhavananda | Svāmī Prabhavānanda Puri | Swami Prabhavananda |
Pranavananda | Svāmī Pranavānanda Giri | Acharya Sreemat Swami Pranavananda Ji Maharaj |
Pranavananda Saraswathi | Svāmī Pranavānanda Sarasvatī | Swami Pranavananda |
Swami Rama | Svāmī Rāma Bhāratī | Sri Swami Rama |
Ramakrishnananda | Svāmī Rāmakrsnānanda Puri | Swami Ramakrishnananda |
Swami Ramanand | Rāmānand Svāmī | Ramanand Swami |
Swami Ranganathananda | Svāmī Ranganāthānanda Puri | Swami Ranganathananda |
Saradananda | Svāmī Sāradānanda Puri | Swami Saradananda |
Shivananda | Svāmī Shivānanda Puri | Mahapurush Swami Shivananda Maharaj |
Swami Shraddhanand | Svāmī Sraddhānanda Sarasvati | Swami Shraddhanand |
Subodhananda | Svāmī Subodhānanda Puri | Swami Subodhananda |
Swarupananda | Svāmī Svarūpānanda Puri | Swami Swarupananda |
Trigunatitananda | Svāmī Trigunatitānanda Puri | Swami Trigunatitananda |
Turiyananda | Svāmī Turiyānanda Puri | Swami Turiyananda |
Swami Vijnanananda | Svāmī Vijnānānanda Puri | Swami Vijnanananda |
Swami Vipulananda | Svāmī Vipulānanda Puri | Swami Vipulananda |
Swami Virajananda | Svāmī Virajānanda Puri | Swami Virajananda |
Swami Vishnu Tirtha | Svāmī Visnu Tīrtha | Swami Vishnu Tirtha |
Swami Yogananda | Svāmī Yogānanda Puri | Swami Yogananda |
Trailanga | Svāmī Ganapati Sarasvatī | Trailanga Swami |
Tripurari Swami | Tripurari Svāmī | Tripurari Swami |
Vallabha Acharya | Vallabha | Vallabhacharya |
Visnujana Swami | Visnujana Svāmī | Visnujana Swami |
Sri Vidya Prakasananda Giri Swamy | Svāmī Vidyāprakāśānanda Giri | Sri Vidya Prakasananda Giri Swamy |
Honorifics include: śrī, shri, shrii, shree, śrī śrī, śrī śrī śrī, śrīla, śrīman, jī, jiew, joo, jiu, swāmījī, mahātma, mahārsi, mahāyogī, mahāsaya, mahārāj, mahārājjī, prabhu, prabhujī, mahāprabhu, gurudev, gurujī, guru mahārāj jī, sāheb, sāhebjī, bābā, bābājī, mā, māta, mātajī, bhagvan, prabhupāda, bhaktipāda. Such situation probably should be handled by someone objective and neutral and who knows what he's doing, rather than by someone using guesswork. See my "Standardised List of Notable Dasanāmīs" in Dashanami Sampradaya. Oliver Puertogallera ( talk) 02:13, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
As WP:INDICSCRIPT gives consensus for NOT having Indic script in the lead or infobox, could this page:-
I'm not sure what you could replace that example with, without contravening WP:INDICSCRIPT? mMybe this page needs deleting? It certainly needs major changes - Arjayay ( talk) 17:39, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
According to the government, the Bharat Ratna, Padma Bhushan, Padma Vibhushan etc should not be used as honorific prefixes or suffixes, nor should abbreviations of those awards. I am in the process of cleaning up many instances where this has actually happened. Can we add something about it to this guidance, please? - Sitush ( talk) 06:08, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
FYI: It has been requested that the title of Jaggi Vasudev be changed to Sadhguru. Please see the relevant discussion on the discussion page.— Cpt.a.haddock ( talk) (please ping when replying) 15:45, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Check out the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Hinduism#Naming_and_Transliteration. It might be helpful. -- Dangerous-Boy 02:47, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
{{koreanname noimage| Devangiri=허황옥| English transliteration=許黃玉| south indian script=Heo Hwang-ok| English transliteration=Hŏ Hwang-ok| }}
I have some reservations about the proposed merge of the transliteration guide, posted at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(Dharmic). Imc 21:22, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
1 Romanization of names
1.1 Name order 1.2 Family name 1.3 Given name 1.4 Royalty
2 Place names 2.1 Province 2.2 Other administrative divisions
or
1 English words of Indic origin 2 Romanisation
2.1 Article titles 2.2 Category link sorting of macronned titles 2.3 Alphabetic order
3 Indic terms
3.1 Template
4 Names
4.1 Names of historical figures 4.2 Names of modern figures 4.3 Pseudonyms 4.4 Names of emperors 4.5 Names of fictional characters 4.6 Place names 4.6.1 Suffixes 4.6.2 Temples and shrines 4.6.3 Train and Subway stations
4.7 Names of companies, products, and organizations 4.8 Names in titles
-- Dangerous-Boy 00:11, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
In the Amrita Pritama example, the as at the end of the two words are always pronounced in Sanskrit but not in Hindustani, so dropping the a would only be correct in a Hindustani context. -- Grammatical error 18:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
(This was copied from my post on the discussion page of the Dharmic naming conventions article and only concerns Sanskrit.) Why is the Devanāgarī equivalent for most Sanskrit words and names always included in articles? Should it have any special privilage over other Indic scripts which are also used to write Sanskrit and can represent the sounds just as accurately (like Grantha or Malayalam, but unlike Tamil because of its lack of aspirates) on the English Wikipedia. I think it would be better to just include the IAST. -- Grammatical error 05:38, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Mahitgar 10:14, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
This statement from "Dharmic": "Transliterated terms from Sanskrit and Pāli should take advantage of Unicode diacritics; for example, 'Nirvāṇa'," appears to contradict the statement in the next paragraph: "If a primary transliteration cannot be clearly established, then the article name should be be written in either a formal transliteration or a simplified transliteration," (not to mention perhaps contradicting the injunction to use a primary transcription if it exists). - Nat Krause( Talk!) 05:08, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I propose that this be explicitly restricted to older history. It will be difficult to include those more recent figures who are usually well known in the idiosyncratic spellings derived from English.
e.g.
should they be combined?-- D-Boy 06:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I've been spending most of my time fixing this article up (which now looks a lot better than it once was) and I spent quite some time ensuring everything was a formal ISO transliteration. However, many people have objected to this over use of formal transliterations and many people dislike diacritics.
Just thought I'd mention my experience with implementing proper transliterations. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 20:30, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
Please take a look at Template:Indic. I've been working to make the IAST template obsolete. This wraps the text in the Unicode class and appends the language name based on language code. You can override showing the language name by including option 'x'. Please give your thoughts.... Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 00:08, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
What needs to be confirmed about Malayalam t? The geminate symbol is the only one available in unicode. When it follows other consonants, one or two r symbols are written below the previous consonant. -- Grammatical error 06:30, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
What is the point of "simplifying" the ISO "c" and "ch" to "ch" and "chh" (which just looks ugly)? In this case, both the academic and the simplified transliteration should be the same. -- Grammatical error 16:04, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone wish to finish merging while I complete the transliteration tables? Once they're merged we can begin a final check and put it up for review as a proper policy. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 19:13, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I've moved the transliteration table to Wikipedia:Indic transliteration scheme because it was taking up too much space. Hopefully this will enable us to finish this section and then concentrate on the specifics of transliteration. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 16:07, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I propose that South Indian names like A.K. Gopalan, B.T. Ranadive, etc. should not have a space in the 'initials'. These are not initials in the Western sense, and it is the name given after these that functions as a western first name. -- Soman 11:34, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
I think this proposal is a good idea and it's well-written; however as most of the work was (apparently) done by a single person, maybe it's a good idea to ask around on the Village Pump and/or related WikiProjects to get some more feedback on it? Other than that I'd say it's fully acceptable as an NC. >Radiant< 20:59, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
This is probably be a minefield best avoided for this project. However, are there any attempts at providing a standard anywhere else? They could be referred to here. Imc 22:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
It is difficult to find any information or list defining personal titles like Sri/Shri, Guru, etc. Is there such an article on Wikipedia, and if not, is there someone who would volunteer to write one? -- Blainster 17:59, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
?-- D-Boy 23:53, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
interesting discussion -- D-Boy 07:28, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
A merge with WP:Manual of Style (Indic-related articles) was suggested a long time ago, and the other page contains little information compared to this page, so I will merge the two. -- Shruti14 t c s 04:52, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm afraid these are very much proposed guidelines and the template should not have been removed. The "Titles and honorifics" section is especially problematic and full of errors. It says,
"Examples are Mahatma Gandhi where Mahatma is an honorific, Sri Chand where 'Sri' is a title, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada where Swami and Prabhupada are honorific, and Chandrasekharendra Saraswati Kanchi Mahaswamigal where Kanchi Mahaswamigal is an honorific."
Neither the Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi page nor the Chandrasekharendra Saraswati page has the honorifics attached. That is in keeping with WP:NAMEPEOPLE (paragraph 2 on qualifiers), which allows qualifiers (like "Saint," "Queen," (and "Mahatma") etc. only if they are essential for disambiguation (as they are in Mother Teresa or Alfred the Great), but not for other situations, where they are not (as in St. Francis of Assisi)
Similarly all the other South Asia pages links with the honorifics like: Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, Maulana Azad, Allama Iqbal, Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose, Pandit Ravi Shankar, Ustad Bismillah Khan, Ustad Allauddin Khan, are redirected to the simple names.
There is no reason why a special dispensation (with regards honorifics) should be made for Indic names when it is not made in WP:NAMEPEOPLE. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 18:26, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I've dropped advice of this discussion at Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography, Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (clergy), and Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (people) LeadSongDog come howl! 18:38, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
A discussion involving Bengali romanization issues has been instigated at Talk:Bengali script. Please weigh in if you care. — AjaxSmack 02:04, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
There are many inconsistencies in the formatting of the current titles of several Hinduism and India related articles. Some articles use an English title, while others use a transliterated title (generally using an ISO standard or IAST), and often the chosen title is the word used to refer to the subject throughout the article. It was discussed that some of these articles should be moved to achieve consistency. I personally think that in accordance with WP:NCIN (a proposed guideline) and WP:EN (an established guideline), all articles with transliterated titles should be moved to English titles, and the English word should be used throughout the article, with the transliteration referred to in the lead. Articles such as Mahābhārata and Jyotiṣa, for example, would be moved to Mahabharata and Jyotisha, respectively, and the new title would be the preferred reference to the subject throughout the article, with the transliteration mentioned in the lead. This is also the standard used by other Wikipedia articles with non-Latin titles. -- Shruti14 talk • sign 19:39, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
I copy here a notification written by User:64.229.101.183 on an ongoing discussion about the term "Avatar" in case there are people who wish to participate. Hoverfish Talk 13:51, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Any attempt at coordinating transcription conventions with Urdu? — kwami ( talk) 20:24, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Forgive me if this has been addressed on another page, I am a new wikipedian. I have read the Indic naming conventions page but I am still unsure. Perhaps someone can direct me to the correct discussion or information.
In articles concerning Buddhist or Hindu terminologies, there doesn't seem to be a standard for Sanskrit names in the introduction (as outlined on the Naming conventions page). Some articles ( ex.) use IAST, others ( ex.) only Devanagari, and still others according to different combinations of IAST/Devanagari and simplified/Devanagari. Are there standards for this? If so, is there a single standard or separate standards according to categorization in Hinduism or Buddhism?
Thanks. Cm3866 ( talk) 20:54, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Per above RM is Jagadguru part of article title? In ictu oculi ( talk) 01:57, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
I've changed the text on titles and honorifics to refer to and reflect MOS for biographies.
IMO the same policy should apply to deities. Imc ( talk) 07:04, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
I posted this already at the Noticeboard for India-related topics but haven't received any response yet; so I'm posting it here in a more specific location. I know there is a policy of not using honorifics but I think Nirmala Srivastava should be an exception since she is more widely known as Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi. There has been a discussion on the talk page and I think the most conclusive argument is that academic articles on the subject use the honorific title far more often. I'm sure as time goes on Nirmala Srivastava will be known even less by the name she was born with and more widely known by her spiritual name considering the worldwide following she has as Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi. Any thoughts? Freelion ( talk) 22:42, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
(moved from WT:Manual of Style (Indic-related articles), which should redirect to here:)
My inputs on this issue with references to the article Ramanuja :
1- related to Hindi/Marathi/Nepal linguistic area 2- related to Sanskrit literature 3- related to basic concepts of Dharmic religions.
1- Just for 'any' personality with Sanskrit-based names. 2- Just for 'anything' related to Hinduism.
(Popular hinduism is considered to have multiple origins - other than sanskritic roots)
3- Just for 'anything' Indian.
Best case in point is the controversial template for Indian personalities with just English & Hindi (as in Mahatma_Gandhi , P_V_Narasimha_Rao etc)
thanks.
I made this commentary in the article on Bhaktivedānta Svāmī, but moved it here at the suggestion of LeadSongDog. The problem of honorifics, especially Asian honorifics, has certainly posted confusion and difficulties for researchers, historians and encyclopedists for decades. However, I think that a reasonable, acceptable, and manageable (not perfect) level of standards can be applied to the situation, always working towards an objective and non-devotional report and avoiding the worshipful non-critical approach that all believers have for their heroes and gods. I am just wishing that the following table I made might contribute to the deliberation and the attainment of a resolution to the issue. Notice that except for four names, the Wikipedia article titles all contain honorifics. (By the way, "ji," "jī," "jee," "jii," "jiew," "joo," "jiu," etc are all the same honorific suffix. Obviously, the same goes for Śrī, Siri, Shri, Shree, Shrii, Śrīla, Śrīman, Śrīmati, Śrīmat, Śrīmad, Śrī Śrī, Śrī Śrī Śrī.)
Wikipedia Article Title | Formal (Neutral) Name | Popular (Devotional) Name |
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada | Abhaya Caranāravinda Bhaktivedānta Svāmī | His Divine Grace Śrīla Prabhupāda |
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura | Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī | His Divine Grace Om Viśnupāda Paramahamsa Parivrājakācārya 108 Śrī Śrīmad Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja Prabhupāda |
Chris Butler, Siddha Svarūpa dāsa, Siddhasvarūpānanda Gosvāmī | His Divine Grace Jagat Guru Chris Butler Siddhaswarupananda Goswami Paramahamsa Prabhupad | |
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu | Krsna Caitanya | Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu |
Mahatma Gandhi | Mohandās Karamchand Gāndhī | Mahātma Gāndhī, Gāndhījī, Bapu |
Lahiri Mahasaya | Syāma Caran Lahirī | Yogavatār Yogirāj Śrī Śrī Lahirī Mahāsaya |
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi | Mahesh Prasād Warma, Mahesh Yogī | His Holiness Mahārishi Mahesh Yogī |
Kirtanananda Swami | Kīrtanānanda Svāmī | His Holiness Swāmī Bhaktipād |
Krishna | Krsna | Bhagavan Śrī Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead |
Ramana Maharshi | Rāmana | Bhagavan Śrī Rāmana Mahārshi |
Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh | Rajneesh | Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh |
Sri Chinmoy | Chinmoy | Śrī Chinmoy |
Sri Aurobindo | Aurobindo Ghose | Śrī Aurobindo |
Sri Sri Harichand Thakur | Harichand Biswas | Śrī Śrī Harichand Thakur |
Adi Shankara | Śankara | Śrī Śrī Śrī Śankarācārya Bhagavatpāda |
Ramakrishna | Svāmī Rāmakrsna Puri | Guru Mahārāj, Śrī Śrī Rāmakrsna Paramahamsa, Thākur |
Brahmananda Saraswati | Jagadguru Śankarācārya Svāmī Brahmānanda Sarasvatī | Guru Dev |
Yukteswar Giri | Svāmī Śrīyukteśwara Giri | Gyānavatār Śrī Śrīmat Svāmī Śrīyukteśwara Giri Mahārāj |
Satyananda Giri | Svāmī Satyānanda Giri | Svāmi Satyānanda Giri Mahārāj |
Shivapuri Baba | Svāmī Govindānanda Bhāratī | Shivapuri Bābā |
Hazur Rai Saligram Bahadur | Sālig Rām | Huzūr Mahārāj |
Brahm Shankar Miśra | Mahārāj Sāheb | |
Mādhav Prasād Sinha | Babujī Mahārāj | |
Ajudhyā Prasād | Lālājī Mahārāj | |
Gur Prasād | Kunwarjī Mahārāj | |
Agam Prasād Mathur | Dadajī Mahārāj | |
Baba Kirtan Singh Ji | Kīrtan Singh | Bābā Kīrtan Singh Jī |
Baba Sawan Singh | Sāwan Singh Grewal | Hazūr Bābā Sāwan Singh Jī Mahārāj |
Charan Singh (guru) | Charan Singh Grewal | Huzūr Mahārāj Charan Singh Jī |
Param Sant Kanwar Saheb | Kanwar Singh | Param Sant Huzūr Kanwar Sāhebjī Mahārāj |
Hans Ji Maharaj | Hansrām Singh Rawat | Param Sant Sadgurudev Hans Jī Mahārāj |
Maharishi Shiv Brat Lal | Shiv Brat Lāl Verman | Data Dayal Mahārishi Shiv Brat Lāl Jī |
Baba Faqir Chand | Faqīr Chand | Param Dayāl Bābā Faqīr Chand Jī Mahārāj |
Nisargadatta Maharaj | Nisargadatta | Śrī Nisargadatta Mahārāj |
Siddharameshwar Maharaj | Siddharāmeśwar | Śrī Siddharāmeshwar Mahārāj |
Ganapatrao Maharaj Kannur | Ganapatrao Kannur | Shrī Samartha Sadguru Ganapatrao Mahārāj Kannur |
Asaram Bapu | Asaram | Sant Śrī Asaramjī Bapu |
Lakshman Joo | Laksman Raina | Swāmī Lakshman Joo |
Prabhat Ranjan Sarkar | Prabhāt Rañjan Sarkār | Param Pitá Bábá Shrii Shrii Ánandamúrtijii |
Mahāvīra | Vardhamana | Mahāvīra |
Nirmala Srivastava | Nirmala Śrīvastava | Shrī Nirmala Devī Mātājī |
Adi Da | Franklin Albert Jones | Bubba Free John, Da Free John, Naitaubha Avadhuta Da Love-Ananda Hridayam, Da Avabhasa, Adi Da |
Oliver Puertogallera ( talk) 01:54, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This naming convention has been essentially stable for over a year. It's past time we discussed promoting it. Please comment constructively, including linked wikipolicy-based reasons for your position, and describing any edits that would be necessary to resolve problems with the page. This RFC will be listed at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style and Wikipedia:Village pump (policy). LeadSongDog come howl! 17:52, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
The section of "Titles and honorifics" of this guideline gives list of titles/honorifics "which should be questioned" when used. But i think that such list should include examples of exceptions as well there by giving clear information. Also, if there have been multiple discussions on any particular name, those needs to be recorded here by providing links to those discussions. We have enlisted a few titles/honorifics in that section but we still have article with them in article name. Hence i think its better to list them over here. This might open Pandora's box in some cases, but the bandage has to be ripped off at some time. We have following articles which could be exceptions or requiring move.
Please enlist other articles also as and when you find. If on cursory discussion here we find these titles in article names to be okay, i propose them to be listed as exceptions in the guideline. If we have some editor opposing any particular example, we can take the
WP:MOVE way case by case on their respective talk pages. §§
Dharmadhyaksha§§ {
T/
C}
09:10, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
I think we should get rid of all honorifics except in those cases (a) where it is clearly a part of the common name and (b) where it may be necessary for disambiguation. The religious ones, in particular, are suspect since almost anyone can have a Bhagwan or Swami attached to their name and it's not for us to decide which ones are worthy of the honorific and which ones are not. So, for example, I think Guru Nanak is fine because he is well known, and commonly known by that name, but Guru Hargobind is not. As for the various Lords in the list above, the don't satisfy WP:NCPEER and need to be moved. -- regentspark ( comment) 14:00, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Currently the policy says that the primary transliteration is established if at least 75% of all references in wider English usage are of that form. This now seems a bit loose to me, since it doesn't take account of other aspects of naming policy. I suggest that it be changed to if at least 75% of all references in reliable references in wider English usage. Imc ( talk) 08:35, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
Opinion and guessing have their value, but factual information is often better. By way of the following table, I would like to demonstrate the inconsistent style of Wikipedia titling in connection with naming, and hence the need for some system of uniformity. As can be seen, it seems that Wikipedia titling shows arbitrariness, sometimes following the popular and devotional style (with honorifics), and then a formal non-devotional style at other times.
Wikipedia Article Title | Formal (Neutral) Name | Popular (Devotional) Name |
Charan Singh (guru) | Charan Singh Grewal | Maharaj Charan Singh Ji |
Baba Sawan Singh | Sawan Singh Grewal | Hazur Baba Sawan Singh Ji Maharaj |
Param Sant Kanwar Saheb | Kanwar Singh | Param Sant Huzur Kanwar Sahebji Maharaj |
Hans Ji Maharaj | Hansram Singh Rawat | Param Sant Satgurudev Hans Ji Maharaj |
Maharishi Shiv Brat Lal | Shiv Brat Lal Verman | Maharishi Shiv Brat Lal Ji |
Baba Faqir Chand | Faqīr Chand | Param Dayal Baba Faqir Chand Ji Maharaj |
Nisargadatta Maharaj | Nisargadatta | Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj |
Siddharameshwar Maharaj | Siddharameśvar | Sri Siddharameshwar Maharaj |
Ganapatrao Maharaj Kannur | Ganapatrao Kannur | Shri Samartha Sadaguru Ganapatrao Maharaj Kannur |
Asaram Bapu | Asaram | Sant Sri Asaramji Bapu |
Lakshman Joo | Lakshman Raina | Swami Lakshman Joo |
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi | Mahesh Yogī | His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi |
Brahmananda Saraswati | Svāmī Brahmānanda Sarasvatī | Guru Dev |
Lahiri Mahasaya | Shyāma Charan Lahirī | Yogiraj Sri Sri Lahiri Mahasaya |
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada | Abhaya Caranaravinda Bhaktivedānta Svāmī | His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada |
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati | Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī | His Divine Grace Om Visnupada Paramahamsa Parivrajakacarya 108 Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja Prabhupada |
Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh | Rajneesh | Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh |
Sri Aurobindo | Aurobindo Ghose | Sri Aurobindo |
Sri Chinmoy | Chinmoy | Sri Chinmoy |
Mahatma Gandhi | Mohandās Karamchand Gāndhī | Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhiji, Bapu |
Yukteswar Giri | Svāmī Śrīyukteśvara Giri | Gyanavatar Sri Srimat Swami Sriyukteswara Maharaj |
Satyananda Giri | Svāmī Satyānanda Giri | Swami Satyananda Giri Maharaj |
Satyananda Saraswati | Svāmī Satyānanda Sarasvatī | Paramhansa Swami Satyananda |
Sivananda Saraswati | Swāmī Sivānanda Sarasvatī | His Holiness Mahapurusha Sivananda Maharaj |
Ramana Maharshi | Rāmana | Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi |
Hazur Rai Saligram Bahadur | Salig Rām | Huzur Maharaj |
Govindananda Bharati | Svāmī Govindānanda Bhāratī | Shivapuri Baba |
Mahāprajña | Mahāprajñā | Acharya Mahaprajna |
Mahasharman | Mahāsarman | Acharya Mahasharman |
Acharya Tulsi | Tulsī | Acharya Tulsi |
Advaita Acharya | Advaita | Advaita Acharya |
Bhagavan Das (yogi) | Bhagavan Dās | Bhagavan Das |
Bhagwan Gopinath | Gopināth | Bhagwan Gopinath Ji |
Bhakti Caitanya Swami | Bhakti Caitanya Svāmī | His Grace Srila Bhakti Chaitanya Swami Maharaja |
Bhakti Charu Swami | Bhakti Caru Svāmī | Srila Bhakti Charu Swami Maharaja |
Bhakti Tirtha Swami | Bhakti Tirtha Svāmī | His Holiness Srila Bhakti Tirtha Swami Krsnapada |
Bhaktisvarupa Damodar Swami | Bhaktisvarūpa Damodara Svāmī | His Holiness Srila Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Swami Maharaja |
Brahmanand Swami | Brahmānand Svāmī | Paramhansa Brahmanand Swami |
Giriraja Swami | Girirāja Svāmī | His Holiness Srila Giriraja Swami Maharaja |
Gopalanand Swami | Gopalānand Svāmī | Paramhansa Gopalanand Swami |
Gour Govinda Swami | Gaura Govinda Svāmī | Srila Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja |
Gunatitanand Swami | Gunatitānand Svāmī | Paramhansa Gunatitanand Swami |
Guru Amar Das | Amar Dās | Guru Amar Das |
Guru Angad | Angad | Guru Angad |
Guru Arjan | Arjan | Guru Arjan Dev |
Guru Gobind Singh | Gobind Singh | Guru Gobind Singh |
Guru Har Krishan | Har Krishan | Guru Har Krishan |
Guru Har Rai | Har Rāi | Guru Har Rai |
Guru Hargobind | Hargobind | Guru Hargobind |
Guru Nanak | Nānak | Guru Nanak Dev |
Guru Ram Das | Rām Dās | Guru Ram Das |
Guru Ravidass | Rāvidās | Guru Ravidassji |
Guru Tegh Bahadur | Tyag Mal Sodhi | Guru Tegh Bahadur |
Hansadutta Swami | Hamsaduta Svāmī | His Divine Grace Srila Hansadutta Swami Maharaja |
Indradyumna Swami | Indradyumna Svāmī | His Grace Srila Indradyumna Swami Maharaja |
Jayadvaita Swami | Jayadvaita Svāmī | His Grace Srila Jayadvaita Swami Maharaja |
Jayapataka Swami | Jayapataka Svāmī | His Divine Grace Srila Jayapataka Swami Maharaja |
Kirtanananda Swami | Kirtanānanda Svāmī | His Divine Grace Srila Kirtanananda Swami Bhaktipada |
Muktanand Swami | Muktānand Svāmī | Paramhansa Muktanand Swami |
Niralamba Swami | Niralamba Svāmī | Niralamba Swami |
Radhanath Swami | Rādhānātha Svāmī | Srila Radhanath Swami |
Raghavendra Swami | Raghavendra Tīrtha Svāmī | Sri Raghavendra Swamigal |
Sacinandana Swami | Sacinandana Svāmī | His Grace Sachinandana Swami |
Soham Swami | Soham Svāmī | Tiger Swami |
Sri Bharati Tirtha | Jagadguru Śankarācārya Svāmī Bhāratī Tirtha | His Holiness Sri Sannidhanam 108 Sri Sri Sri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamigalu |
Swami Abhedananda | Svāmī Abhedānanda Puri | Swami Abhedananda |
Swami Adbhutananda | Svāmī Adbhutānanda Puri | Latu Maharaj |
Swami Advaitananda | Svāmī Advaitānanda Puri | Buro Gopal |
Swami Akhandananda | Svāmī Akhandānanda Puri | Swami Akhandananda |
Swami Atmajnanananda | Svāmī Atmajñānānanda Puri | Swami Atmajnanananda |
Swami Brahmananda | Svāmī Brahmānanda Puri | Rakhal Maharaj |
Swami Gambhirananda | Svāmī Gambhirānanda Puri | Swami Gambhirananda |
Swami Haridas | Haridās | Swami Haridas |
Lakshmanananda Saraswati | Svāmī Laksmanānanda Sarasvatī | Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati |
Swami Madhavananda | Svāmī Madhavānanda Puri | Swami Madhavananda |
Swami Maheshwarananda | Maheśvarānanda | Paramhansa Swami Maheshwarananda |
Swami Nikhilananda | Svāmī Nikhilānanda Puri | Swami Nikhilananda |
Niranjanananda | Svāmī Nirañjanānanda Puri | Swami Niranjan Maharaj |
Niranjanananda Saraswati | Svāmī Nirañjanānanda Sarasvatī | Swami Niranjanananda Saraswati |
Nirmalananda | Svāmī Nirmalānanda Puri | Swami Nirmalananda |
Swami Paramananda | Svāmī Paramānanda Puri | Swami Paramananda |
Swami Prabhavananda | Svāmī Prabhavānanda Puri | Swami Prabhavananda |
Pranavananda | Svāmī Pranavānanda Giri | Acharya Sreemat Swami Pranavananda Ji Maharaj |
Pranavananda Saraswathi | Svāmī Pranavānanda Sarasvatī | Swami Pranavananda |
Swami Rama | Svāmī Rāma Bhāratī | Sri Swami Rama |
Ramakrishnananda | Svāmī Rāmakrsnānanda Puri | Swami Ramakrishnananda |
Swami Ramanand | Rāmānand Svāmī | Ramanand Swami |
Swami Ranganathananda | Svāmī Ranganāthānanda Puri | Swami Ranganathananda |
Saradananda | Svāmī Sāradānanda Puri | Swami Saradananda |
Shivananda | Svāmī Shivānanda Puri | Mahapurush Swami Shivananda Maharaj |
Swami Shraddhanand | Svāmī Sraddhānanda Sarasvati | Swami Shraddhanand |
Subodhananda | Svāmī Subodhānanda Puri | Swami Subodhananda |
Swarupananda | Svāmī Svarūpānanda Puri | Swami Swarupananda |
Trigunatitananda | Svāmī Trigunatitānanda Puri | Swami Trigunatitananda |
Turiyananda | Svāmī Turiyānanda Puri | Swami Turiyananda |
Swami Vijnanananda | Svāmī Vijnānānanda Puri | Swami Vijnanananda |
Swami Vipulananda | Svāmī Vipulānanda Puri | Swami Vipulananda |
Swami Virajananda | Svāmī Virajānanda Puri | Swami Virajananda |
Swami Vishnu Tirtha | Svāmī Visnu Tīrtha | Swami Vishnu Tirtha |
Swami Yogananda | Svāmī Yogānanda Puri | Swami Yogananda |
Trailanga | Svāmī Ganapati Sarasvatī | Trailanga Swami |
Tripurari Swami | Tripurari Svāmī | Tripurari Swami |
Vallabha Acharya | Vallabha | Vallabhacharya |
Visnujana Swami | Visnujana Svāmī | Visnujana Swami |
Sri Vidya Prakasananda Giri Swamy | Svāmī Vidyāprakāśānanda Giri | Sri Vidya Prakasananda Giri Swamy |
Honorifics include: śrī, shri, shrii, shree, śrī śrī, śrī śrī śrī, śrīla, śrīman, jī, jiew, joo, jiu, swāmījī, mahātma, mahārsi, mahāyogī, mahāsaya, mahārāj, mahārājjī, prabhu, prabhujī, mahāprabhu, gurudev, gurujī, guru mahārāj jī, sāheb, sāhebjī, bābā, bābājī, mā, māta, mātajī, bhagvan, prabhupāda, bhaktipāda. Such situation probably should be handled by someone objective and neutral and who knows what he's doing, rather than by someone using guesswork. See my "Standardised List of Notable Dasanāmīs" in Dashanami Sampradaya. Oliver Puertogallera ( talk) 02:13, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
As WP:INDICSCRIPT gives consensus for NOT having Indic script in the lead or infobox, could this page:-
I'm not sure what you could replace that example with, without contravening WP:INDICSCRIPT? mMybe this page needs deleting? It certainly needs major changes - Arjayay ( talk) 17:39, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
According to the government, the Bharat Ratna, Padma Bhushan, Padma Vibhushan etc should not be used as honorific prefixes or suffixes, nor should abbreviations of those awards. I am in the process of cleaning up many instances where this has actually happened. Can we add something about it to this guidance, please? - Sitush ( talk) 06:08, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
FYI: It has been requested that the title of Jaggi Vasudev be changed to Sadhguru. Please see the relevant discussion on the discussion page.— Cpt.a.haddock ( talk) (please ping when replying) 15:45, 2 November 2018 (UTC)