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Made it clear that using the disambiguator (film) is actually a rule - that is; using (movie) or similar is not just alternative usage, it is not accepted. CapnZapp ( talk) 21:55, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
What is the proper procedure when you can't disambiguate films with the same title in the same year easily "by country"? E.G. Wolf (2021 drama film) vs. Wolf (2021 thriller film)? Are you supposed to disambiguate by director? Or by "genre"? The latter seems problematic to me, which is why I have reservations about the "Wolf" example above. Or is there some other way?... -- IJBall ( contribs • talk) 17:34, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
Wolf (2021 Irish-Polish film)and
Wolf (2021 Indian film)too bad? — El Millo ( talk) 17:49, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
The Visitor (2007 feature film)to be properly unambiguous. — El Millo ( talk) 20:24, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
Wolf (2021 Irish-Polish film)and
Wolf (2021 Indian film)isn't bad at all. — El Millo ( talk) 19:06, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
There can be no such thing. We have an editor now at WP:RM undiscussed moves here arguing on the basis of this shortcut that there is such a thing as primary film rather than WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. This shortcut should be removed from page and the shortcut deleted. In ictu oculi ( talk) 08:16, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
After a months-long discussion at
WT:CSD § Formerly untitled/upcoming media, there was no consensus to create a new speedy deletion criterion for redirects with the word "untitled" or "upcoming" that point to creative works no longer untitled or upcoming, despite clear consensus from past RfD discussions that these redirects should be deleted (
1,
2,
3,
4,
5). As an alternate proposal, I suggest the following be added to
WP:NCFILM, which can then be referenced in future RfD discussions: After a film receives a wide release or an official title, redirects such as
Untitled Wikipedia film,
Upcoming Wikipedia film, and
Wikipedia (upcoming film) are no longer accurate and now misleading to readers. These redirects should be nominated for deletion at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion when this happens, preferably after all incoming links in the mainspace have been updated.
Once again pinging participants of the previous discussion: @
Steel1943,
Cryptic,
Thryduulf,
Kusma,
Jclemens,
Tavix,
A7V2,
StarTrekker,
Shhhnotsoloud,
Mellohi!,
Buidhe,
Pppery,
BD2412,
Jontesta,
TNstingray,
Oiyarbepsy,
ValarianB, and
Tamzin.
InfiniteNexus (
talk)
19:23, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
It isn't a requirement to clear all incoming links before nominating a redirect to RfDindeed it is not because it is not the correct thing to do in all circumstances. It is however something that needs to be done for all of these types of redirects - its harmful enough to the encyclopaedia that we delete these redirects while they are still in use, creating redlinks in our own articles is truly cutting off our nose to spite our face. Similarly the delay between moving the article and nominating for deletion - at the very least we need to allow time for search engines to catch up. Thryduulf ( talk) 23:03, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
I have added in the text to
WP:UFILM, with a few slight adjustments and minor c/e. Thryduulf, I hope this satisifes your concern regarding updating incoming links. Feel free to perform additional c/e as needed. Thanks all.
InfiniteNexus (
talk)
06:34, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
Hi all - I recently participated in a requested move discussion (at Talk:Endless (2020 film)) where it was stated that the terms a/an/the are generally, on their own, seen as insufficient to distinguish titles of films from one another. I was curious to see if this was the case, so I did a bit of searching - but the first applicable case I found, Prestige (film) vs. The Prestige (film), seemed to contradict the claim. However, I'm not well versed in this topic area, so I wanted to bring my question in front of people who are better informed about film-article titling practices than I am. My thoughts are mainly as follows:
ModernDayTrilobite ( talk • contribs) 18:22, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
Should original video animations be disambiguated as (OVA)? I'm asking because someone tagged Sonic the Hedgehog (OVA) as not having a correct name per naming guidelines, but I looked through other OVAs, and many of them are disambiguated as such. I think this needs to be added to the guideline. TarkusAB talk/ contrib 23:30, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
Apparently, there was an RM in November of last year which attempted to move Willow (film) to Willow (1988 film), per WP:PFILM, but it was closed as no consensus. Looking at WP:PDABLIST#(film), this is — as far as we know — the only article on Wikipedia which doesn't conform to our guideline. What can and should we do about this? InfiniteNexus ( talk) 04:13, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
Note: Two RMs have been opened directly challenging
WP:PFILM:
InfiniteNexus ( talk) 23:16, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
I find it somewhat odd that this page doesn't have more "general" guidance on how film articles are named. There's only that small blurb at the top of the page, but it only mentions capitalization and italics. At a minimum, I think the following points should be noted:
InfiniteNexus ( talk) 03:25, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
In general, article titles should use the official title of the film as indicated by its billing block, MPAA certificate, official press releases, or government copyright agencies.
- It is common for films to be stylized differently in promotional materials.
- Examples: Seven (1995 film), Ghostbusters (2016 film), Birdman (film)
- It is also common for films to use a slightly modified title onscreen.
- Examples: Dune (2021 film), Iron Man 3, Maze Runner: The Scorch Trials
- Use the title used at the time of the film's release, disregarding retroactive title changes.
- Sometimes, it is acceptable to use an alternative common name that is more concise or recognizable.
- Examples: Dr. Strangelove, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Ocean's 8
- Subtitles and possessives used for brand recognition may be omitted for concision, unless they are being used for natural disambiguation.
- Use the title used in the film's country of origin, not international titles.
- Examples: The Fate of the Furious, Zootopia, Live Free or Die Hard
- Take note of minute formatting irregularities that may be overlooked by some sources, such as spelling and punctuation.
- Per MOS:CONFORMTITLE, spaced hyphens should be normalized as en dashes.
- Per MOS:TMRULES, ignore special characters and normalize them as regular text. This does not apply to numbers or common symbols.
- Examples: Alien 3, WALL-E, Romeo + Juliet
If an article title differs from the film's actual title, the latter should be the bolded term that opens the lead sentence.
- Stylized titles – It is common for films to be stylized differently in promotional materials.
- Examples: Seven (1995 film), Ghostbusters (2016 film), Birdman (film)
- Onscreen titles – It is also common for films to use a slightly modified title onscreen.
- Examples: Dune (2021 film), Iron Man 3, Maze Runner: The Scorch Trials
- Retroactive changes – Use the title used at the time of the film's release, disregarding retroactive title changes.
- ...
In general, article titles should use the official title of the film as indicated by its billing block, MPAA certificate, official press releases, or government copyright agencies.
- Marketing stylizations – It is common for film titles to be rendered differently in promotional materials.
- Onscreen titles – It is also common for films to use a slightly modified title onscreen.
- Examples: Dune (2021 film), Iron Man 3, Maze Runner: The Scorch Trials
- Retroactive changes – Use the title used at the time of the film's release, disregarding retroactive changes.
- Common names – Sometimes, it is acceptable to use an alternative common name that is more concise or recognizable.
- Examples: Dr. Strangelove, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Ocean's 8
- Branding subtitles – Subtitles and possessives used for brand recognition may be omitted for concision, unless they are being used for natural disambiguation.
- International titles – Use the title used in the film's country of origin, not international ones.
- Examples: Zootopia, Mad Max 2, Ford v Ferrari
- Formatting irregularities – Take note of small formatting quirks that may be overlooked by some sources.
- En dashes – Per MOS:CONFORMTITLE, convert hyphens to en dashes if applicable.
- Special characters – Per MOS:TMRULES, ignore special characters and normalize them as regular text. This does not apply to numbers or common symbols.
- Examples: Alien 3, WALL-E, Romeo + Juliet
If an article title differs from the film's actual title, the latter should be the bolded term that opens the lead sentence.
@ Gonnym: Special:Diff/1183755278 – How so? InfiniteNexus ( talk) 19:24, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
When the page title is used as the subject of the first sentence, it may appear in a slightly different form, and it may include variations, including plural forms (particularly if they are unusual or confusing) or synonyms.I have never seen a film article's lead structured the other way round, or any article about a proper name, for that matter. Can you give an example? InfiniteNexus ( talk) 19:48, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
the bolded term that opens the lead sentencewhich can be understood to mean that other terms should not be bolded. If everything should be bolded, why mention it? If you actually meant to say, that the official film title should be the first title that opens the lead sentence then you should have written it like that. Either way, again, that belongs in MOS:FILM and not here. Gonnym ( talk) 20:00, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
References
I'd like to propose a review of the WP:PRIMARYFILM guideline, which I view as inconsistent. It makes no sense to me that films are on such a high pedestal that they can trump almost all other forms of WP:PARTIALDISAMBIGUATION (such as those for people [i.e. actors, athletes, etc.] or other mediums [i.e. music, literature, television, etc.]).
This is the case not only for clear WP:PDABPRIMARY titles such as Avatar (2009 film), Frozen (2013 film), Parasite (2019 film), Split (2016 American film) and Titanic (1997 film) but also for many WP:TWODABS between a more well-known film and a relatively obscure film that most readers frankly would not know even exists without a Wikipedia article (such as Cinderella [2015 American film] and Cinderella [2015 Indian film], Suicide Squad [2016 film] and Suicide Squad [1935 film], The Wolf of Wall Street [2013 film] and The Wolf of Wall Street [1929 film], etc.), some of which have pageview ratios of 300:1 or more. This may even include possible WP:PDABREDIRECTS (such as Mulan [live-action film] for Mulan [2020 film] rather than Mulan [2009 film]).
Please leave your thoughts below. JohnCWiesenthal ( talk) 03:26, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Reviewing the current entries at WP:PDAB#(film)
Hey, guys. I have been thinking about potential criteria to allow PDABs for films. According to my proposal, a film article would be eligible for a PDAB title when at least one of the following conditions is satisfied (if more are satisfied, the eligibility would be even higher):
Please let me know your thoughts on this proposal. JohnCWiesenthal ( talk) 15:56, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
![]() | Film Project‑class | ||||||
|
Index
|
|||
This page has archives. Sections older than 20 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 10 sections are present. |
Made it clear that using the disambiguator (film) is actually a rule - that is; using (movie) or similar is not just alternative usage, it is not accepted. CapnZapp ( talk) 21:55, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
What is the proper procedure when you can't disambiguate films with the same title in the same year easily "by country"? E.G. Wolf (2021 drama film) vs. Wolf (2021 thriller film)? Are you supposed to disambiguate by director? Or by "genre"? The latter seems problematic to me, which is why I have reservations about the "Wolf" example above. Or is there some other way?... -- IJBall ( contribs • talk) 17:34, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
Wolf (2021 Irish-Polish film)and
Wolf (2021 Indian film)too bad? — El Millo ( talk) 17:49, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
The Visitor (2007 feature film)to be properly unambiguous. — El Millo ( talk) 20:24, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
Wolf (2021 Irish-Polish film)and
Wolf (2021 Indian film)isn't bad at all. — El Millo ( talk) 19:06, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
There can be no such thing. We have an editor now at WP:RM undiscussed moves here arguing on the basis of this shortcut that there is such a thing as primary film rather than WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. This shortcut should be removed from page and the shortcut deleted. In ictu oculi ( talk) 08:16, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
After a months-long discussion at
WT:CSD § Formerly untitled/upcoming media, there was no consensus to create a new speedy deletion criterion for redirects with the word "untitled" or "upcoming" that point to creative works no longer untitled or upcoming, despite clear consensus from past RfD discussions that these redirects should be deleted (
1,
2,
3,
4,
5). As an alternate proposal, I suggest the following be added to
WP:NCFILM, which can then be referenced in future RfD discussions: After a film receives a wide release or an official title, redirects such as
Untitled Wikipedia film,
Upcoming Wikipedia film, and
Wikipedia (upcoming film) are no longer accurate and now misleading to readers. These redirects should be nominated for deletion at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion when this happens, preferably after all incoming links in the mainspace have been updated.
Once again pinging participants of the previous discussion: @
Steel1943,
Cryptic,
Thryduulf,
Kusma,
Jclemens,
Tavix,
A7V2,
StarTrekker,
Shhhnotsoloud,
Mellohi!,
Buidhe,
Pppery,
BD2412,
Jontesta,
TNstingray,
Oiyarbepsy,
ValarianB, and
Tamzin.
InfiniteNexus (
talk)
19:23, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
It isn't a requirement to clear all incoming links before nominating a redirect to RfDindeed it is not because it is not the correct thing to do in all circumstances. It is however something that needs to be done for all of these types of redirects - its harmful enough to the encyclopaedia that we delete these redirects while they are still in use, creating redlinks in our own articles is truly cutting off our nose to spite our face. Similarly the delay between moving the article and nominating for deletion - at the very least we need to allow time for search engines to catch up. Thryduulf ( talk) 23:03, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
I have added in the text to
WP:UFILM, with a few slight adjustments and minor c/e. Thryduulf, I hope this satisifes your concern regarding updating incoming links. Feel free to perform additional c/e as needed. Thanks all.
InfiniteNexus (
talk)
06:34, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
Hi all - I recently participated in a requested move discussion (at Talk:Endless (2020 film)) where it was stated that the terms a/an/the are generally, on their own, seen as insufficient to distinguish titles of films from one another. I was curious to see if this was the case, so I did a bit of searching - but the first applicable case I found, Prestige (film) vs. The Prestige (film), seemed to contradict the claim. However, I'm not well versed in this topic area, so I wanted to bring my question in front of people who are better informed about film-article titling practices than I am. My thoughts are mainly as follows:
ModernDayTrilobite ( talk • contribs) 18:22, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
Should original video animations be disambiguated as (OVA)? I'm asking because someone tagged Sonic the Hedgehog (OVA) as not having a correct name per naming guidelines, but I looked through other OVAs, and many of them are disambiguated as such. I think this needs to be added to the guideline. TarkusAB talk/ contrib 23:30, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
Apparently, there was an RM in November of last year which attempted to move Willow (film) to Willow (1988 film), per WP:PFILM, but it was closed as no consensus. Looking at WP:PDABLIST#(film), this is — as far as we know — the only article on Wikipedia which doesn't conform to our guideline. What can and should we do about this? InfiniteNexus ( talk) 04:13, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
Note: Two RMs have been opened directly challenging
WP:PFILM:
InfiniteNexus ( talk) 23:16, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
I find it somewhat odd that this page doesn't have more "general" guidance on how film articles are named. There's only that small blurb at the top of the page, but it only mentions capitalization and italics. At a minimum, I think the following points should be noted:
InfiniteNexus ( talk) 03:25, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
In general, article titles should use the official title of the film as indicated by its billing block, MPAA certificate, official press releases, or government copyright agencies.
- It is common for films to be stylized differently in promotional materials.
- Examples: Seven (1995 film), Ghostbusters (2016 film), Birdman (film)
- It is also common for films to use a slightly modified title onscreen.
- Examples: Dune (2021 film), Iron Man 3, Maze Runner: The Scorch Trials
- Use the title used at the time of the film's release, disregarding retroactive title changes.
- Sometimes, it is acceptable to use an alternative common name that is more concise or recognizable.
- Examples: Dr. Strangelove, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Ocean's 8
- Subtitles and possessives used for brand recognition may be omitted for concision, unless they are being used for natural disambiguation.
- Use the title used in the film's country of origin, not international titles.
- Examples: The Fate of the Furious, Zootopia, Live Free or Die Hard
- Take note of minute formatting irregularities that may be overlooked by some sources, such as spelling and punctuation.
- Per MOS:CONFORMTITLE, spaced hyphens should be normalized as en dashes.
- Per MOS:TMRULES, ignore special characters and normalize them as regular text. This does not apply to numbers or common symbols.
- Examples: Alien 3, WALL-E, Romeo + Juliet
If an article title differs from the film's actual title, the latter should be the bolded term that opens the lead sentence.
- Stylized titles – It is common for films to be stylized differently in promotional materials.
- Examples: Seven (1995 film), Ghostbusters (2016 film), Birdman (film)
- Onscreen titles – It is also common for films to use a slightly modified title onscreen.
- Examples: Dune (2021 film), Iron Man 3, Maze Runner: The Scorch Trials
- Retroactive changes – Use the title used at the time of the film's release, disregarding retroactive title changes.
- ...
In general, article titles should use the official title of the film as indicated by its billing block, MPAA certificate, official press releases, or government copyright agencies.
- Marketing stylizations – It is common for film titles to be rendered differently in promotional materials.
- Onscreen titles – It is also common for films to use a slightly modified title onscreen.
- Examples: Dune (2021 film), Iron Man 3, Maze Runner: The Scorch Trials
- Retroactive changes – Use the title used at the time of the film's release, disregarding retroactive changes.
- Common names – Sometimes, it is acceptable to use an alternative common name that is more concise or recognizable.
- Examples: Dr. Strangelove, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Ocean's 8
- Branding subtitles – Subtitles and possessives used for brand recognition may be omitted for concision, unless they are being used for natural disambiguation.
- International titles – Use the title used in the film's country of origin, not international ones.
- Examples: Zootopia, Mad Max 2, Ford v Ferrari
- Formatting irregularities – Take note of small formatting quirks that may be overlooked by some sources.
- En dashes – Per MOS:CONFORMTITLE, convert hyphens to en dashes if applicable.
- Special characters – Per MOS:TMRULES, ignore special characters and normalize them as regular text. This does not apply to numbers or common symbols.
- Examples: Alien 3, WALL-E, Romeo + Juliet
If an article title differs from the film's actual title, the latter should be the bolded term that opens the lead sentence.
@ Gonnym: Special:Diff/1183755278 – How so? InfiniteNexus ( talk) 19:24, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
When the page title is used as the subject of the first sentence, it may appear in a slightly different form, and it may include variations, including plural forms (particularly if they are unusual or confusing) or synonyms.I have never seen a film article's lead structured the other way round, or any article about a proper name, for that matter. Can you give an example? InfiniteNexus ( talk) 19:48, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
the bolded term that opens the lead sentencewhich can be understood to mean that other terms should not be bolded. If everything should be bolded, why mention it? If you actually meant to say, that the official film title should be the first title that opens the lead sentence then you should have written it like that. Either way, again, that belongs in MOS:FILM and not here. Gonnym ( talk) 20:00, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
References
I'd like to propose a review of the WP:PRIMARYFILM guideline, which I view as inconsistent. It makes no sense to me that films are on such a high pedestal that they can trump almost all other forms of WP:PARTIALDISAMBIGUATION (such as those for people [i.e. actors, athletes, etc.] or other mediums [i.e. music, literature, television, etc.]).
This is the case not only for clear WP:PDABPRIMARY titles such as Avatar (2009 film), Frozen (2013 film), Parasite (2019 film), Split (2016 American film) and Titanic (1997 film) but also for many WP:TWODABS between a more well-known film and a relatively obscure film that most readers frankly would not know even exists without a Wikipedia article (such as Cinderella [2015 American film] and Cinderella [2015 Indian film], Suicide Squad [2016 film] and Suicide Squad [1935 film], The Wolf of Wall Street [2013 film] and The Wolf of Wall Street [1929 film], etc.), some of which have pageview ratios of 300:1 or more. This may even include possible WP:PDABREDIRECTS (such as Mulan [live-action film] for Mulan [2020 film] rather than Mulan [2009 film]).
Please leave your thoughts below. JohnCWiesenthal ( talk) 03:26, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Reviewing the current entries at WP:PDAB#(film)
Hey, guys. I have been thinking about potential criteria to allow PDABs for films. According to my proposal, a film article would be eligible for a PDAB title when at least one of the following conditions is satisfied (if more are satisfied, the eligibility would be even higher):
Please let me know your thoughts on this proposal. JohnCWiesenthal ( talk) 15:56, 14 June 2024 (UTC)