Please consider to ask at Wikipedia_talk:Copyrights or at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions if you like to get a quick answer
see also: meta:permission grant extent
It doesn't have to be placed under \: If you do decide to upload the images, make sure that their copyright status is clearly marked on the image description page, as described in wikipedia:image use policy. Talking of which, I've made a suggested change to the policy on image copyright at wikipedia talk:image use policy which would benefit from extra eyes... Martin don't simply say "can we use it", but you also say "will you release it under GFDL". Difference within there is. - º¡º
You also know why World War I can have a lot of photos.
I still don't understand while photos make such debate. The situation is simple. You write a text it belongs to you, you take a photograph it belongs to you. You can paste text from the 1911 encyclopedia because it has fallen in public domain, you can upload a photography made by Nadar because it has fallen in public domain. You could paste a text from Microsoft Encarta if Microsoft allows you to do this you could also upload a photograph by Helmut Newton if he allows you (you can try IMO you have more chances than with M$). Of course you can also paste any text that is already under the GFDL and upload any picture that is already under the GFDL. Etc... etc... etc.... Ericd 20:59 Apr 15, 2003 (UTC)
I'm learning quickly, finding new pages. There are lots of contributors above with very diverse opinions on photograph copyright but I don't see any person signing as a United States attorney. I would like to possibly insert some pictures with biographies. There must be a legal policy set down by whoever owns this web site, otherwise they would be subject to the risk of very costly litigation. Where do I find the legal facts instead of this collection of very diverse opinions?
User:JoanB
Copyright rules are essentially the same for text and pictures read Wikipedia:Copyrights. Ericd 15:49 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
Problems arise with several things but the reality is that Wikipedia:Copyrights is written by users, not the owner. With respect to lawyers varied opinions, a lawyer is legally liable for their opinions. Universities, banks, insurance companies, and every business pay for a legal opinion that they rely on. However, none of us as far as I can see is qualified to discuss this. At least not me. User:JoanB
We don't need to be experts we just have to apply the rules. They're adequate to give an encyclopedia licensed under GFDL. Ericd 16:26 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
The GFDL was written by experts. The rule are just requiring to complies with the GFDL. And as we are not expert we should have a very restrictive understanting of the rule. You made the photo it's yours you can release it under the GFDL. You should be aware that by doing that you loose your own copyright. If you did'nt made the photo it's better not to post it here. Ericd 16:44 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
I can't claim to be a legal expert, but after 15 years of working with GNU professionally and talking to lawyers about it from time to time, I have some sense of what's OK and what's not. Lawyers' advice isn't a magical yes/no - sometimes it's a "you can probably get away with this", because there's no law or precedent. One of the advantages of the GFDL is that it's been vetted by real lawyers such as Eben Moglen, who is also responsible for the GNU license. Stan 16:47 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
75 years old is OK see http://www.superstock.com/about/copyright.aspx Ericd 16:59 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
This made in 2003 80 years in the USA and 75 years in most other countries isn'it ? Ericd 17:12 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
Holy Cow! You are back where we started and everyone who is not qualified giving opinions. GFDL has nothing to do with copyright infringement, it is the after use granting. But, again, no one here (so far) is qualified or legally entitled to impose their rules. That is why I said that the owner (responsible party) of Wikipedia must have a policy in place. User:JoanB
And you can grant use only for things that belongs to you or to nobody or everybody. - Ericd 17:25 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
"GFDL includes the right of charge money or even make a profit with the information, fair use, i think, not (correct me if I'm wrong)..."
Making money is a factor in fair use, but it's complicated. You can make money, but you are on shakier ground when you diminish the money-making potential of the original work. You are even allowed to do that, if you're doing a parody -- what you can't do is swipe the essential heart of the original work purely to make money.
ridetheory 1 Feb 2003
The Wikipedia: Copyrights article currently states:
A discussion about this is currently underway at the Village Pump. On this note, I'm all in favor of noting when copyrighted work is used with permission, but it makes no sense to declare the fair use of copyrighted work which is being used without permission. Rather, we should just cite the original source and be done with it.
My understanding of the GFDL is that an affirmative defense of fair use of copyrighted materials *IS* inherited by derivative works which comply with the terms of the GFDL. This is because fair use is *NOT* a license to use copyrighted materials. Rather, it is an affirmative defense to a claim of copyright infringement which presumes that a plaintiff has already established his or her prima facie case in a court of law. Moreover, a determination of fair use is not defeated by virtue of the fact that a derivative work is commercial in nature.
In other words, if Wikipedia's use of copyrighted content is fair use, it should remain fair use when it is distributed for profit under the GFDL. If not, we shouldn't be using that content in the first place.
[Note: This is *NOT* a legal opinion.]-- NetEsq
If Isis thinks that declaring on an image that it is being used under fair use might actually have some negative consequence, then I'm certainly open to changing that policy. As you say, such a statement has no legal effect, and simply mentioning the source should be enough. But I'm still concerned with the mechanics of maintaining the Wikipedia itself--specifically with the fact that we must remove images and text that clearly are copyright violations (we could not, for example, include drawings from a textbook, as much as we might like to). So because we must delete /some/ images, a simple note on an image that it is being used under fair use serves the other /sysops/ here to inform them that it isn't necessary to delete it. In other words, the note is for us, not for the readers/users. I also think the copyright/GFDL statement in general should continue to clarify that it applies only to the original contents of Wikipedia, and to the work as a whole. -- LDC
Thanks, I think some buzzwords like "tell us what you know" and "avoid paranoia" would be good for the policy statements. I'll figure out some way to reword those (I'm more a law groupie than a lawyer, but I am a writer, so I sould be able to make the legal issues and policies understandable to contributors). --LDC
I have access to some useful images which are copyright. The copyright owner is happy to allow their use on Wikipedia but is not prepared to place them in the public domain: i.e., he is willing to grant unlimited use of the images to Wikipedia, but not to any third party. As I understand the rules, this means that I can't use those images here. Do I have this correct? (Sorry if this has been asked a hundred times already.) Thanks. Tannin 14:22 Jan 10, 2003 (UTC)
Anyone? Tannin 17:51 Jan 11, 2003 (UTC)
I just saw this on another website and thought of Wikipedia and our " fair use" claim for use of some images:
IMO we should have some similar text on this policy page (what I and several others have written isn't as clear as the above statement). What say you? -- mav
I asked to use the United Methodist Church's cross and flame logo (see www.umc.org) on the UMC article. They would (of course) not license it under the GFDL, but they will allow use of the image on Wikipedia only. Is that violating the GFDL? Would a better solution be to link to the image on their server? Geoffrey 23:42 Mar 27, 2003 (UTC)
Is Image:Tibetmap.png copyright violation? The user has altered the image by adding a thumbnail (is this image also violation?).
If you do think that the user has violated copyright, does it mean no matter how much or how little one has modified an image, so long as it is originally a copyrighted image, it is copyright violation? -- 142.103.108.105 23:50 Mar 26, 2003 (UTC)
(end from village pump)
I have a very good new for Wikipedia it seems a lot of photos by Yousuf Karsh are PD and can be found at http://www.archives.ca. These photos can illustrate a lot of articles.
Do you see why it's useful to investigate copyrights ?
Ericd 21:12 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
It should be verified by photo here is a sample url : (snipped: the URL caused page widening... :-() Ericd 21:25 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
Be careful some photos by Karsh have their copyright expired but not all. Ericd 21:38 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
If Karsh had children I'm a little bit worried about their mental health. Ericd 21:40 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
Help! Please go to Panavia Tornado and click where it says "Click HERE for a picture of a Tornado GR-4". The picture comes up OK but there is then no way the reader can get to the copyright information except by noting its file name, going to the Image List and clicking on Descr. Clumsy! Should I therefore make the pic a proper Wikipedia page so that the pic can then be clicked on and the description will come up as normal? Thanks Adrian Pingstone 17:37 29 May 2003 (UTC)
Stuff below moved from Wikipedia:Votes for deletion by Wapcaplet 17:32 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
PLEASE NOTE: Because of the below suspicious activity, User:Joe_Canuckis under a hard ban. This alert posted by Rickyrab 11:28 21 Jun 2003 (UTC)
User:Joe_Canuck has been uploading images since he joined wiki recently. He refuses to offer any sources for most of them, or state other than there was no copyright mention visible and its isn't his legal responsibility to establish if they are copyright-free. Repeated requests by a number of users for clarification have met with a refusal to answer, abuse and the deletion of any requests for information from his talk page. In view of this I have been advised to remove the images from their pages and place them here for deletion. (It is worth mentioning for background information that a number of wiki members who have had the 'pleasure' of dealing with this user strongly suspect that he is banned user DW, who like Joe Canuck had a tendency among other things to download images in these areas, refuse to supply source information and get abusive when challenged. When challenged on this accusation, Canuck simply gets abusive.) A small number of images that seem OK have been left in location, mainly album and book covers that I think are OK (if not, please add to here). A notice as to each image's status has been placed on each image page. Given the tendency of the user to delete 'unwanted' information, the image pages have been protected to prevent the removal of the note that states that they are listed for removal and not to be reinserted in articles pending clarification of their copyright status. FearÉIREANN 02:06 19 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Thanks. Martin 08:37 19 Jun 2003 (UTC)
The following images he lists as fair use but gives no indication of source, a requirement to protect wiki should any dispute arise over whether they are indeed covered by fair use.
The following image he lists with the questionable justification that it belongs to the Government of Canada as is as a result public property.
IMO we should delete the lot of them. Better to be safe than sorry plus it gives a clear message that coprighted material will not be tolerated. Theresa knott 09:02 19 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Joe please stop going on about the "owners of Wikipedia.org", you keep using that inall your arguments. No-one owns the content of Wikipedia. - fonzy
I have already stated that the measures taken by the person going by the identity of
User:Jtdirl, who is not the owner of this site, with respect to the photo images posted by me are an illegal intrusion into my right to use Wikipedia.org and represents a personal act of discrimination and continued harassment directed against me intended to deny me the right to use an open website. Further, the person going by the identity of
User:Jtdirl has included the following statement:
I will be reinstating ALL of the images posted by me that were removed by the person going by the identity of User:Jtdirl who is a volunteer user only and someone who has no authority to ban any User at Wikipedia.org. If the person going by the identity of User:Jtdirl wishes to suggest banning me to the owners of Wikipedia.org, he/she is free to do so at anytime. Please be advised that once I have reinstated ALL my legally posted photos, any further unauthorized removal will constitute additional deliberate harassment and discrimination against me. Joe Canuck 13:23 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
(Comment moved from User talk:Joe Canuck, since apparently he doesn't want it there):
From the Wikipedia:Overview FAQ:
Who owns Wikipedia?
So, when you keep referring to the "owners" of Wikipedia, you are talking about you, me, Tim, Martin, FearÉIREANN, and anyone else who contributes. -- Wapcaplet 15:22 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
POSTING COPY HERE IN ACCORDANCE WITH Wapcaplet SUGGESTION: Joe Canuck 15:48 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
What is or is not legal copyright here at Wikipedia.org is not for you or anyone to make an arbitrary judgment on. Wikipedia.org protected itself, it did not mandate users to be copyright lawyers. When a group of users form a cabal to impose their views, that is in fact discrimination and doing it selectively and repeatedly constitutes harassment. A user to Wikipedia is entitled to use the site in accordance with the owners terms -- not yours or mine. There are many "brave" loudmouths who hide behind their non-USA residence who don't worry about harassment because the prime and serious damage will be to Wikipedia.org, not themselves should a provoked user or rights group decide to protect themselves from abuse. In this regard, I find it incredible that you are willing to think that a totally unknown and unverifiable person logged into Wikipedia under any user name they choose can simply say: "I took this photo myself" or "The person who took this photo has given me permission to upload it to wikipedia and you accept it. Mind boggling that you would accept such implausible claims as adequate legal protection. The DMCA was created just so innocent website operators couldn't be held liable for the actions of the uncaring few. Joe Canuck 15:31 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
OK Joe you ke saying you will contact the "owners of Wikipedia.org". Then why not e-mail Jimbo Wales?? I am shore he will agree with me and everyone else that you are wrong. -fonzy
I vote to delete all those things Joe uploaded. Hello, Joe. I'm afraid I don't follow your reasoning at all. If somebody objects to their work being reproduced here, there is nothing stopping them coming and deleting it themselves. For what it's worth, I'm in totally in favour of deleting all copyright violations, not out of respect for the notion of "intellectual property", but because I think Wikipedia should be written (and photographed) by Wikipedians, and nobody else. GrahamN 16:38 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
GrahamN - you are entitled to an opinion but not to judge what is or isn't copyright. Nor do you have the right to impose your unfounded opinions on others. Deleting my legally posted photos violates my right to use Wikipedia as specified by the owners. What if a group shows up here (User:Vikings was called a group, I think?) who think all users should sign an oath to pray to their God? Do you go along, or go away, or argue against it because that is not what the owners intended? And if that small group intimidates others, do you quit? WEikipedia needs users, and the volunteer Administrators had their banning powers removed for a very real reason.
To User: Ms. Knott - Sorry, Ms. knott, but you and I are not allowed to arbitrarily judge. Wikipedia wasn't created to make lawyers out of users nor to create arguments for no just cause. Photos are non arguable, unlike text where there will always be differences. When we usurp Wikipedia.org's rules and impose our personal legal opinions on another, we only insult users and turn them away, all because we "think" or its a "possible" copyright violation. The law doesn't work on "I think" or "gee, maybe", it works on fact. Morality isn't the issue here, otherwise User:JHK would not have left. There are articles tat too, disgust me. (And oh yes, the unchallenged clitoris photo is a copyright violation, in my opinion.) I see you posted an image that you claim you created. The fact is, you cannot prove it. Do you plan to post your full name, proof of identity, full address etc to support your claim? I can assure, Wikipedia.org does not want that and that is why you or anyone can check in under any name you choose. And, it is an absolute fact that copying images off the internet is legal in hundreds of thousands of cases. Are you qualified to judge which photo is or which isn't? Who says Album covers, that studios paid tens of thousands to have designed, are okay to copy? Check the image list. Look at the number posted with no explanation while others make claims that can't be proven. Can you judge one of USER:Jirl's as to whether he actually took the photo, that he is who he says he is, and that he actually owns that photo? He “claims” he took them, but can he prove it? You can't, I can't and no one else her can either. That is why the DMCA exists. Delete one of Joe Blow's and he will demand all labeled as "taken by me" to be deleted because the claim cannot be proven. And how about Image:Espresso.jpg. -- Wapcaplet ? Can he prove copyright? I know a painting of a cup of coffee that sold for $7 million and a photo of an apple that sold for over $200m. As to the morality involved with photos, that is what an open site means can happen if people choose. But, Wikipedia.org is not at risk under any circumstances and they certainly don’t expect you or me to be forced into a legal position we cannot defend. The risk, is when some nutcase starts harassing people. Wikipedia.org must, repeat must, be named as co-respondent in any action(s) against that User. And, there are users here whose sole purpose is to satisfy a need for power that has nothing to do with morality or the law. Support them if you like, but believe me, those kind of abusers with their arbitrary actions and conduct are the real and potentially terminal risk for Wikipedia.org. not a photo that they have no liability for. The reputation of Wikipedia is indeed harmed by gaining a reputation of an illegal cabal harassing sincere users who in fact obey all regulations established by the site owners. You said:
Sweet and simple: You have no right to judge or to create YOUR rules. My photos were posted in accordance with the rules established by the ONLY authority: the site owners, NOT YOU. So, please stop ranting and move on because I am tired of those who wish to impose their views. As I said, delete my photos and you will have violated my rights. I looked at your photos, Arpingstone's, JTDirls, Maverick149 etc. None are proveable as to copyright ownership. And no, there is no such thing as "less" violations or "more acceptables". If you don't like my actions, then ask the site owners to review the matter and, as promised by USER:JIRl, demand I be banned. Also, I remind you for the last time that you should check with the owners before you take arbitrary actions because the consequences could be severe. That is, if you care about Wikipedia.org. And, by the way, I am not some complaining nut who fills up his/her user contribution list by creating meaningless little edits to articles. I back up my words and beliefs in the value and integrity of Wikipedia by doing quality, in-depth articles to the best of my ability. Joe Canuck 17:32 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I agree 100%: "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here." But photos are fixed, unalterable objects that are given a specific legal authorization as an upload by the owners of Wikipediua.org. End of discussion on my part. Joe Canuck 17:44 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Given the history of DW/Black Widow/Joe Canuck in returning to wikipedia even after banning, I think it is fair to presume that the banning of Joe Canuck will not mean an end to the danger that these images may still be used by him. The odds are that he will return in the near future and if the images still exist, reinsert them. To ensure he can't, I would suggest that the image be deleted immediately the seven day waiting period is over, which means that they should be deleted as soon as possible after the 26th of June. A question: given that the user who downloaded them and so knows their source is now banned (and it is unlikely anyone else on wiki will be able to trace their source), do wiki rules allow in such circumstances for their deletion ahead of the 7 day waiting period? As the person who put them here I will not be the person who deletes them in any case. FearÉIREANN 09:24 21 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I have voted against User:Jtdirl’s statement that the images posted by User:Joe Canuck should be deleted. And I gave the reasons on the Wikipedia:Votes for deletion page. ChuckM 20:08 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Comments below moved from Wikipedia:Votes for deletion by Wapcaplet 21:15 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I have been on vacation and returning today I learned of the ban of User:Joe Canuck. I logged on to Wikipedia because of my interest in sports and because of what I thought was User Joe Canuck’s real good stuff being done on the different years in sports. I read the list above and have some questions about the photos that User:Jtdirl says should be deleted as well as statements he has made.
User:Jtdirl says: The following images he (User:Joe Canuck) lists as fair use but gives no indication of source, a requirement to protect wiki should any dispute arise over whether they are indeed covered by fair use.
My question to User:Jtdirl is: What requirement, and how could there ever be a dispute? If a copyright owner gives the required legal notification to Wikipedia of an infringement, there is no dispute, the photo is removed. It is simple and no big deal and no risk of any kind to Wikipedia who cannot be held liable if someone uploads a copyrighted photo because they have, as User:Joe Canuck, pointed out, registered for protection under the DMCA. By actually reading what User:Joe Canuck said, I can understand his point is that any disputes are by Wikipedia users, all with their own opinion that repeatedly contradicts one another. The discussion pages are filled with hundreds of opinions. And that is a waste of time, involving people arguing unnecessarily that only confuses Users as to right legal policy. I found where User Maverick149 said we are pretty liberal on fair use, User Eloquence gave his opinion, Brion Vibber a different opinion, and so on. User Stan Shebs asserts that stamps are okay to upload, another person says maps are okay, and User:TUF-KAT has loaded dozens of Album/CD covers saying these are fair game for copying. The Epopt says the magazine covers he uploaded are okay to copy. Then, like Maverick 149’s image of Strom Thurmond that he only labelled as: Public Image. I found articles where some photos got a label: Image of the profile of the Roman Emperor Constans from a coin I own.Then the poster at Stop Esso campaign says: Stop Esso campaign leaflet by Greenpeace, Freinds of the Earth and People and Planet. Who says this is not copyright? Can you get permission? I doubt it, because they worry if someone copies and alters it or uses it unfavorably? Another photo lists the information as (Photo of the children's writer J.P. Martin) . Repeatiung the photo title is proof of copyright? And there are lots like that. And, many photos are uploaded by someone claiming they took the photo themselves including User:Jtdirl doing it many times. Who is right in all these claims? User: Joe Canuck's photo uploads are exactly the same as many of these but he never claimed he took any himself. So why are his photos the only ones being questioned?
User:Jtdirl (James Duffy) stated on his e-mail to [WikiEN-l]: He (User:Joe Canuck) systematically downloaded a series of images to wikipedia, many of which may well have been copyright.
Do we delete photos because they may be copright? And if so, who is qualified to make that judgment? And what about all the other mays? I looked at one photo User:Jtdirl) uploaded at the same time as Joe Canuck’s of Glasnevin Cemetery. User:Jtdirl claimed he took the picture(s). I don’t know, but I think I saw at least one or two somewhere on the Web months ago. Should it be banned? Should we just accept User:Jtdirl’s word? That would be a big legal risk wouldn’t it? If we accept his, then we must accept the word of everyone who makes such a claim. All this really makes for the possibility of a lot of abuse because who can prove what? Maybe Joe Canuck took all those photos or they are his inherited property. I have some excellent sports photos of celebrities I took myself at the US Open and elsewhere. Do you take my word, if I post them by simply saying I took them. If so, how do you know if I am telling the truth or not?
And what makes me mighty nervous is that what User:Jtdirl seems to be doing here, is questioning one person, but not others. That was what Joe Canuck complained about so I have to question User:Jtdirl’s motivations. Maybe he can explain why he has not wanted to delete the many other questionable circumstances surrounding photos being posted by others while User Joe Canuck was doing his thing. And for User: Jtdirl to demand all his questions be answered in fact is silly and a contradiction of the openess at Wikipedia to insist that any user is obliged to answer any questions at Wikipedia on any subject. That leaves the door open to masive abuse. Wikipedia was created so you can come here and be free to edit as you see fit. There is no condition that you spend your time answering any question from the thousands of users here.
I took a minute and went through the last 500 images posted. There are plenty uploaded in the exact same manner as those of User Joe Canuck. But, on the person’s page or on this votes for deletion page, I cannot see any one that has been questioned. Why not? User Joe Canuck does seem to be targeted and I note that User:Jtdirl said on this page:
I may be stupid, but how can User:Jtdirl say that without providing proof? I note that Wikipedia owner Jimbo Wales most definitely did not agree with that unproven statement. User:Jtdirl using innuendo seems to contradict common decency, particularly when a he has someone banned who then cannot respond to such remarks on this page. And it was User:Jtdirl who had User Joe Canuck banned on his unproven words to Mr. Jimbo Wales without allowing User Joe Canuck to defend the accusations. Accept photos from some without question but delete those of others uploaded in the exact same manner is certainly questionable conduct. Then to ban someone without trial, making slanderous accusations is unacceptable and intimidation against all users. I see too that User:Jtdirl (James Duffy) also stated on his e-mail to [WikiEN-l] Re: Joe Canuck : When a number of users asked him (User:Joe Canuck]] to clarify their status, he became highly verbally abusive, issued legal threats and then deleted the questions.
I read all of User Joe Canuck’s staements and this statement by User:Jtdirl appears to be a complete falsehood as I found no such abuse or threats of any kind. What I saw was repeated harassment that User:Joe Canuch complained about. What User Joe Canuck did do was point out the possible legal ramifications for Wikipedia if a User publicly uses this website to libel another User. Perhaps I missed it so User:Jtdirl can provide the proof of these statements because if untrue they do cause great risk to Wikipedia and all of us who only want to enjoy working here.
Below are just a tiny few of many photos that have recently been placed in Wikipedia while this matter has been going on. Why were none of these questioned? And with all the differences of opinion, who is right? If I upload a photo to Wikipedia, I don’t want someone deleting it just because they may not like me or for any other personal reason they have. Users photos should not be deleted based on the opinions of a few unqualified people. And, I am certain the owners of Wikipedia who set the rules for uploading photos, are just like the many other websites licensed by the DMCA that are fully protected and risk-free from an actual copyright infringement if it ever occurred. Look at the image details for these:
Image in the public domain, from http://wwwihm.nlm.nih.gov/
However, for User:Maveric149's claim to public domain for the [Image:Linnaeus.jpg] at article Carl Linnaeus, this is what the website states:
And there are lots more uploaded images to consider. I may just be a sports nut who can’t make contributions to nuclear physics but I know what I see. And no, I am not Joe Canuck or any other person in the history of Wikipedia and he was the only guy interested in doing the big job to include sports highlights in Wikipedia. And, in my opinion, something smells. ChuckM 20:06 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)
No, I think you are wrong. What I read, and I did read every single word, is that he says it is not a legal requirement to provide details on photos. Note above from the list, many others including you, Wapcaplet conduct themselves in the same manner as Joe Canuck did and not a word is said. Do you have special privlidges here that the rest of us don't? And just so you understand the law: this site is the property of Wikipedia.org. Open content means if they choose to pay the bills and keep it on the Web, others can freeely copy your contributions. You and I certainly don't own it. Plus, I think User: Joe Canuck tried to help by telling us that if someone sues another User for libel, it means Wikipedia will automatically be named and will be dragged into court and pay lawyers. The lawsuit against Kazaa was against them asking the Court to order Kazaa to release the Users true Id's. If you or I abuse another Wikipedia User we risk dragging Wikipedia into a lawsuit. Post a copyrighted photo either deliberately or in honest error and no harm of any kind can come to Wikipedia. That is indisputable fact. And, I read some things on User:Jtdirl, this guy has repeatly said libelous things to others that are the real danger here. I'm not interested in arguing this. Everyone here can make their own decisions but I'm not going to start picking on one person or make false statements about them that could get me and Wikipedia sued. ChuckM 22:20 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I have a copyright question that, as of yet, no one has answered (I hope this is the right place for it). Is it permissable to use a screen shot from a computer program? Is this considered fair use or copyright infringement? I know this is a tricky question, but since the 'pedia has so many articles about 1000's of peices of software, it could really benefit from some images of them running.
Before someone answers right away, "No! It's copyright infringement! Go away!" I remember a case several years ago regarding Electronic Arts and their program Deluxe Paint. EA claimed that they had a copyright on every image created with DP since they owned the copyright for DP. The courts struck them down saying that they did have the copyright for DP, but not for content created by the tool. Couldn't the same reasoning be applied to screens of software running? For example, if I author a letter with MS Word, I've used it create an image of my letter, so is taking a screen shot of it a copyright violation?
I really do want a definitive answer to this, as I'd like to enhance a lot of articles with pertinent (quality) screen shots. But I also don't want to violate any copyright laws or put the 'pedia in jeopardy. Can anyone give me (or point me to) a qualified answer to this? — Frecklefoot 16:13 10 Jul 2003 (UTC)
I am not entirely sure what you mean by "use a screen shot from a computer program", but I understand that you want to create a screenshot of some software running on your machine. That's just fine: copyright protects works. Now, if you create a screenshot of Microsoft Word, you're not even making a copy of the work "Microsoft Word" because the work is the software which is, itself, not copied. (This would be like saying Microsoft owns all documents that you wrote with Word.) It's not even a question of "fair use" because that would only kick in when a work has been copied. – Of couse, if you steal a screenshot from a Microsoft web page, you are making a copy of a picture, which is something that might be a work of authorship, and that's a different issue.
You are correct that things become more complicated if the screenshot itself contains a work of authorship like artwork – of which the user would make a copy then. However, then I'd say fair use applies, especially if the shot is scaled down. – The other issues you bring up need some clarification. 1) The question was about copyright; when logos or the "Microsoft" name are involved, we may run into trademark issues. That's a different can of worms. 2) As you mention license agreements, Microsoft only has the right to impose restrictions on you with these if you need a license in the first place, because the law protects something: a license gives you rights you would otherwise not have. If there is no work of authorship copied, or no trademark (or even patent) infringed, you don't have to give a rat's ass about license agreements. Microsoft cannot define when copyright or trademark law are in effect, as much as they'd like to. Now, how they think they can prohibit screenshots of the boot process, I'd think, would be a trademark issue because their logos are prominently exhibited, but again, that's not a copyright issue in my view. 3) Disparaging Microsoft is yet another thing regulated by competition law. Of course you, as a Wikipedia contributor, may write a review of a piece of Microsoft software and say that it sucks. Whether IBM may do it is something different. – So yes it's complex, but what I was saying is copyright only kicks in when you make a copy of a work of authorship, and you usually don't.
Are any and all pictures of Civil War (i.e. 1860-1865) pictures taken before 1920 in the public domain, whether the site hosting them states explicitly that they are in the public domain, or not? Like, [ http://www.
(UTC)
HADI BANGASH WAS BORN ON 12 12 2001 AND THEN HE STUDYED IN HIS VILLAGE AND THEN HE LOST HIS FATHER AND HIS MOTHER SEND HIM ISLAMABAD AND NOW HE IS STUDYING IN ISLAMABAD SCHOOL NAMED SKY SCHOOL SYSTEM AND HE WANTS TO AN ASTRONAUT
I don't think I have seen any discussion concerning copyright of photographs of 3D artworks.
Here I am guessing that a photograph of any sculpture would be a creative work and so any photograph of a sculpture published pre-1923 would be OK as {{PD-US}} and any photograph released GFDL (or similar) would be OK.
However, could there also be copyright on the sculpture itself (or would that only apply to a 3D reproduction of the sculpture). Are there any differences if the sculpture or artwork is in a public place ( [2] this link draws some distinction for public art). -- Solipsist 20:17, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I have scanned numerous images from original pre-1923 books, magazines, postcards, etc for use in Wikipedia. The vast majority are from U.S. sources. What criteria can be used to determine when I can simply mark them as "PD" (public domain) as opposed to "PD-US" (which marks the image page "This image is in the public domain in the United States and possibly other jurisdictions")? I have asked this before, and have yet to get an answer. Is this image of Gen Ludendorff scanned from a 1918 US magazine public domain? Or this 19th century view of the Palace of Westminster scanned from a US stereopticon card? How do I tell? I'd like to mark many images as simply "Public domain" rather than PD-US if there is some way to tell when that would be allowed. -- Infrogmation 15:16, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
On a related note, how can I know if I can use some of my old postcards, stereocards, etc printed in the UK or Germany? Is there a date similar to the US pre-1923 that is safe to assume public domain? -- Infrogmation 15:16, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Yes. Creators must 70 years dead. -- 134.130.68.65 15:44, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia_talk:Copyrights#Copyright_question, thanks, ( Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 16:15, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I photographed some objects from a local (US) museum. I assumed that that would mean I owned the rights to the photographs (especially as the items in question are a couple centuries old, and therefore in the public domain), and could therefore upload them, but then I checked the museum's website, where I found this quote:
Well, Wikipedia definitely qualifies as non-commercial, but personal? I'm thinking that's not going to fly. What do you think? Do I have to give up on uploading these pictures? -- Iustinus 01:43, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I have another museum question. I took these photos at museums in China: [3] [4] [5] (these are low-res versions not hosted on WP). I am now back in Australia. I also asked this on commons ( see Commons:Village_pump#Pictures_of_museum_exhibits) but it seems like no one is sure. :| Any advice would be appreciated. I'd love to use the last one especially. pfctdayelise 14:33, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi, forgive me if this has been covered anywhere, but I can't find it. Does it still fall under free use for an album cover, book cover, etc. to edit it? For instance in an article on Joe Blow, can one provide a picture of Joe Blow cropped from the cover of the book the Life of Joe Blow, captioned as "picture of Joe Blow from cover of The Life of Joe Blow" under free use? Does it matter at all if the book is referenced in the article? Gzuckier 14:44, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The image is there becase the design on the coin features the Forth Bridge, so it is relevant to the article. However, the {{ currency}} license template says "their use on Wikipedia is contended to be fair use when they are used for the purposes of commentary or criticism relating to the image of the currency itself". Is the use in the the article fair use or not? Thryduulf 15:18, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
I recently found two untagged images (now using permission, which is better then nothing), that I have confirmed where uploaded by their creator (a professional book cover artist). I have contacted him and he wishes for them to remain on Wiki (and is willing to upload some more), but he is not sure which tag is the best for him. He wrote: I am still confused--now that I am able to examine the permissions, is there any one I can use that doesn't give up my copyright to the work? I am happy to let Wikipedia use it, but it is still a valuable intellectual property for me that I regularly re-sell, so i don't want to put it into public domain, or give up the copywrite. I just want to give permission for it to be used in this one instance, but i don't see any permission that does that. Can you advise how to proceed without giving up everything? I know we don't accept permissions anymore. What do you think can be the solution? Perhaps he can release under a copyleft a low-res version, and keep full rights to a high res ones, like we did with Template:Polish coats of arms by Tadeusz Gajl?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 11:03, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
I have proposed at Wikipedia talk:Image copyright tags that {{ CopyrightedFreeUse}} should be deprecated in favor of {{ NoRightsReserved}}. Please comment there. — Ilmari Karonen ( talk) 10:31, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
Sorry if this as been asked before, but what is the proper tagging of a photo taken from a magazine? I know there is a tag for magazine covers, but what about a picture inside the mag? -- Jaysscholar 14:42, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Earlier today, I had this conversation at the Help Desk:
Trademark Does anyone know if there's a forum to discuss copyright status on WP images? I'm having a little trouble finding a place to ask my question. In particular, I'm concerned that WP doesn't use the Commons template ( Commons:Template:Trademarked) for trademarked pictures such as pictures of products, etc. Does anyone know about this, or know where else I can ask this question? tiZom (2¢) 19:07, 29 November 2006 (UTC) Actually, I just noticed that we do have Template:Trademarked, but it is not nearly as widespread as it should be. I guess I'm just curious as to why... tiZom (2¢) 19:27, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
So if someone takes a picture of a trademarked product (let's say for argument's sake Image:Pepsicup.jpg), and licenses it under GNU free doc license, then anyone can use this picture for any use (which may even involve commercial use), so long as they simply credit the photographer ( User:Appraiser) Something about this just doesn't seem right... unless I'm missing something - which is often the case :o) tiZom (2¢) 20:08, 29 November 2006 (UTC) |
The Help Desk typically isn't that great for ongoing conversations since people tend to look only at the most recent topic. At any rate, I did a little bit more research and found this page. Can anyone help me with my most recent comment up there? Thanks! tiZom (2¢) 02:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Aha! I just found Wikipedia:General disclaimer#Trademarks. Case closed. tiZom (2¢) 20:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
So I have an image of a photograph of a musician on stage, and I took this photograph from the audience area. What likely is its copyright status? Can I release it to the public domain on Wikipedia? Please advise. Thanks, AppleJuggler 03:12, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
There is an open Rfc page on image use policy & copyright which can be found here, Wikipedia:Requests for comment/FC Vorskla Poltava image. -- Palffy 21:25, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
I took a picture of a 3 dimensional objects that have a logo. Can I use this pic in Wikipedia?
Image use policy It says: "Photographs of three-dimensional objects almost always generate a new copyright in addition to copyrights of objects."
There are many instances of the logos apearing in many pictures. Bravehartbear 23:03, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm the creator of this image. Is there anyway to publish this image on my user page? Is this a derivative work? Hessam 23:00, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
The logo of my app has been uploaded with a "public domain" license and, despite what the Permission field says, without permission from the author: /info/en/?search=File:Joplin-icon.svg
The actual license is there: https://github.com/laurent22/joplin/blob/dev/Assets/LICENSE
How do I go about correcting this? I don't mind if the logo appears on the Wikipedia article, but I don't want it to say it's public domain. It's like Firefox, even though the app is open source, the logo usage is restricted.
Also what to do about the history of this file? The template is lying when it says "This work has been released into the public domain by its author" because I've never released it into the public domain. And I wouldn't want someone to dig this up and says "well that version was open source so it can be used freely". Any suggestions?
(Also I'm a bit shocked that it's possible to grant so many permissions on behalf of someone else - without providing any proof that they are authorised to do this)
92.40.176.255 ( talk) 22:58, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
Please consider to ask at Wikipedia_talk:Copyrights or at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions if you like to get a quick answer
see also: meta:permission grant extent
It doesn't have to be placed under \: If you do decide to upload the images, make sure that their copyright status is clearly marked on the image description page, as described in wikipedia:image use policy. Talking of which, I've made a suggested change to the policy on image copyright at wikipedia talk:image use policy which would benefit from extra eyes... Martin don't simply say "can we use it", but you also say "will you release it under GFDL". Difference within there is. - º¡º
You also know why World War I can have a lot of photos.
I still don't understand while photos make such debate. The situation is simple. You write a text it belongs to you, you take a photograph it belongs to you. You can paste text from the 1911 encyclopedia because it has fallen in public domain, you can upload a photography made by Nadar because it has fallen in public domain. You could paste a text from Microsoft Encarta if Microsoft allows you to do this you could also upload a photograph by Helmut Newton if he allows you (you can try IMO you have more chances than with M$). Of course you can also paste any text that is already under the GFDL and upload any picture that is already under the GFDL. Etc... etc... etc.... Ericd 20:59 Apr 15, 2003 (UTC)
I'm learning quickly, finding new pages. There are lots of contributors above with very diverse opinions on photograph copyright but I don't see any person signing as a United States attorney. I would like to possibly insert some pictures with biographies. There must be a legal policy set down by whoever owns this web site, otherwise they would be subject to the risk of very costly litigation. Where do I find the legal facts instead of this collection of very diverse opinions?
User:JoanB
Copyright rules are essentially the same for text and pictures read Wikipedia:Copyrights. Ericd 15:49 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
Problems arise with several things but the reality is that Wikipedia:Copyrights is written by users, not the owner. With respect to lawyers varied opinions, a lawyer is legally liable for their opinions. Universities, banks, insurance companies, and every business pay for a legal opinion that they rely on. However, none of us as far as I can see is qualified to discuss this. At least not me. User:JoanB
We don't need to be experts we just have to apply the rules. They're adequate to give an encyclopedia licensed under GFDL. Ericd 16:26 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
The GFDL was written by experts. The rule are just requiring to complies with the GFDL. And as we are not expert we should have a very restrictive understanting of the rule. You made the photo it's yours you can release it under the GFDL. You should be aware that by doing that you loose your own copyright. If you did'nt made the photo it's better not to post it here. Ericd 16:44 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
I can't claim to be a legal expert, but after 15 years of working with GNU professionally and talking to lawyers about it from time to time, I have some sense of what's OK and what's not. Lawyers' advice isn't a magical yes/no - sometimes it's a "you can probably get away with this", because there's no law or precedent. One of the advantages of the GFDL is that it's been vetted by real lawyers such as Eben Moglen, who is also responsible for the GNU license. Stan 16:47 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
75 years old is OK see http://www.superstock.com/about/copyright.aspx Ericd 16:59 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
This made in 2003 80 years in the USA and 75 years in most other countries isn'it ? Ericd 17:12 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
Holy Cow! You are back where we started and everyone who is not qualified giving opinions. GFDL has nothing to do with copyright infringement, it is the after use granting. But, again, no one here (so far) is qualified or legally entitled to impose their rules. That is why I said that the owner (responsible party) of Wikipedia must have a policy in place. User:JoanB
And you can grant use only for things that belongs to you or to nobody or everybody. - Ericd 17:25 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
"GFDL includes the right of charge money or even make a profit with the information, fair use, i think, not (correct me if I'm wrong)..."
Making money is a factor in fair use, but it's complicated. You can make money, but you are on shakier ground when you diminish the money-making potential of the original work. You are even allowed to do that, if you're doing a parody -- what you can't do is swipe the essential heart of the original work purely to make money.
ridetheory 1 Feb 2003
The Wikipedia: Copyrights article currently states:
A discussion about this is currently underway at the Village Pump. On this note, I'm all in favor of noting when copyrighted work is used with permission, but it makes no sense to declare the fair use of copyrighted work which is being used without permission. Rather, we should just cite the original source and be done with it.
My understanding of the GFDL is that an affirmative defense of fair use of copyrighted materials *IS* inherited by derivative works which comply with the terms of the GFDL. This is because fair use is *NOT* a license to use copyrighted materials. Rather, it is an affirmative defense to a claim of copyright infringement which presumes that a plaintiff has already established his or her prima facie case in a court of law. Moreover, a determination of fair use is not defeated by virtue of the fact that a derivative work is commercial in nature.
In other words, if Wikipedia's use of copyrighted content is fair use, it should remain fair use when it is distributed for profit under the GFDL. If not, we shouldn't be using that content in the first place.
[Note: This is *NOT* a legal opinion.]-- NetEsq
If Isis thinks that declaring on an image that it is being used under fair use might actually have some negative consequence, then I'm certainly open to changing that policy. As you say, such a statement has no legal effect, and simply mentioning the source should be enough. But I'm still concerned with the mechanics of maintaining the Wikipedia itself--specifically with the fact that we must remove images and text that clearly are copyright violations (we could not, for example, include drawings from a textbook, as much as we might like to). So because we must delete /some/ images, a simple note on an image that it is being used under fair use serves the other /sysops/ here to inform them that it isn't necessary to delete it. In other words, the note is for us, not for the readers/users. I also think the copyright/GFDL statement in general should continue to clarify that it applies only to the original contents of Wikipedia, and to the work as a whole. -- LDC
Thanks, I think some buzzwords like "tell us what you know" and "avoid paranoia" would be good for the policy statements. I'll figure out some way to reword those (I'm more a law groupie than a lawyer, but I am a writer, so I sould be able to make the legal issues and policies understandable to contributors). --LDC
I have access to some useful images which are copyright. The copyright owner is happy to allow their use on Wikipedia but is not prepared to place them in the public domain: i.e., he is willing to grant unlimited use of the images to Wikipedia, but not to any third party. As I understand the rules, this means that I can't use those images here. Do I have this correct? (Sorry if this has been asked a hundred times already.) Thanks. Tannin 14:22 Jan 10, 2003 (UTC)
Anyone? Tannin 17:51 Jan 11, 2003 (UTC)
I just saw this on another website and thought of Wikipedia and our " fair use" claim for use of some images:
IMO we should have some similar text on this policy page (what I and several others have written isn't as clear as the above statement). What say you? -- mav
I asked to use the United Methodist Church's cross and flame logo (see www.umc.org) on the UMC article. They would (of course) not license it under the GFDL, but they will allow use of the image on Wikipedia only. Is that violating the GFDL? Would a better solution be to link to the image on their server? Geoffrey 23:42 Mar 27, 2003 (UTC)
Is Image:Tibetmap.png copyright violation? The user has altered the image by adding a thumbnail (is this image also violation?).
If you do think that the user has violated copyright, does it mean no matter how much or how little one has modified an image, so long as it is originally a copyrighted image, it is copyright violation? -- 142.103.108.105 23:50 Mar 26, 2003 (UTC)
(end from village pump)
I have a very good new for Wikipedia it seems a lot of photos by Yousuf Karsh are PD and can be found at http://www.archives.ca. These photos can illustrate a lot of articles.
Do you see why it's useful to investigate copyrights ?
Ericd 21:12 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
It should be verified by photo here is a sample url : (snipped: the URL caused page widening... :-() Ericd 21:25 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
Be careful some photos by Karsh have their copyright expired but not all. Ericd 21:38 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
If Karsh had children I'm a little bit worried about their mental health. Ericd 21:40 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
Help! Please go to Panavia Tornado and click where it says "Click HERE for a picture of a Tornado GR-4". The picture comes up OK but there is then no way the reader can get to the copyright information except by noting its file name, going to the Image List and clicking on Descr. Clumsy! Should I therefore make the pic a proper Wikipedia page so that the pic can then be clicked on and the description will come up as normal? Thanks Adrian Pingstone 17:37 29 May 2003 (UTC)
Stuff below moved from Wikipedia:Votes for deletion by Wapcaplet 17:32 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
PLEASE NOTE: Because of the below suspicious activity, User:Joe_Canuckis under a hard ban. This alert posted by Rickyrab 11:28 21 Jun 2003 (UTC)
User:Joe_Canuck has been uploading images since he joined wiki recently. He refuses to offer any sources for most of them, or state other than there was no copyright mention visible and its isn't his legal responsibility to establish if they are copyright-free. Repeated requests by a number of users for clarification have met with a refusal to answer, abuse and the deletion of any requests for information from his talk page. In view of this I have been advised to remove the images from their pages and place them here for deletion. (It is worth mentioning for background information that a number of wiki members who have had the 'pleasure' of dealing with this user strongly suspect that he is banned user DW, who like Joe Canuck had a tendency among other things to download images in these areas, refuse to supply source information and get abusive when challenged. When challenged on this accusation, Canuck simply gets abusive.) A small number of images that seem OK have been left in location, mainly album and book covers that I think are OK (if not, please add to here). A notice as to each image's status has been placed on each image page. Given the tendency of the user to delete 'unwanted' information, the image pages have been protected to prevent the removal of the note that states that they are listed for removal and not to be reinserted in articles pending clarification of their copyright status. FearÉIREANN 02:06 19 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Thanks. Martin 08:37 19 Jun 2003 (UTC)
The following images he lists as fair use but gives no indication of source, a requirement to protect wiki should any dispute arise over whether they are indeed covered by fair use.
The following image he lists with the questionable justification that it belongs to the Government of Canada as is as a result public property.
IMO we should delete the lot of them. Better to be safe than sorry plus it gives a clear message that coprighted material will not be tolerated. Theresa knott 09:02 19 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Joe please stop going on about the "owners of Wikipedia.org", you keep using that inall your arguments. No-one owns the content of Wikipedia. - fonzy
I have already stated that the measures taken by the person going by the identity of
User:Jtdirl, who is not the owner of this site, with respect to the photo images posted by me are an illegal intrusion into my right to use Wikipedia.org and represents a personal act of discrimination and continued harassment directed against me intended to deny me the right to use an open website. Further, the person going by the identity of
User:Jtdirl has included the following statement:
I will be reinstating ALL of the images posted by me that were removed by the person going by the identity of User:Jtdirl who is a volunteer user only and someone who has no authority to ban any User at Wikipedia.org. If the person going by the identity of User:Jtdirl wishes to suggest banning me to the owners of Wikipedia.org, he/she is free to do so at anytime. Please be advised that once I have reinstated ALL my legally posted photos, any further unauthorized removal will constitute additional deliberate harassment and discrimination against me. Joe Canuck 13:23 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
(Comment moved from User talk:Joe Canuck, since apparently he doesn't want it there):
From the Wikipedia:Overview FAQ:
Who owns Wikipedia?
So, when you keep referring to the "owners" of Wikipedia, you are talking about you, me, Tim, Martin, FearÉIREANN, and anyone else who contributes. -- Wapcaplet 15:22 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
POSTING COPY HERE IN ACCORDANCE WITH Wapcaplet SUGGESTION: Joe Canuck 15:48 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
What is or is not legal copyright here at Wikipedia.org is not for you or anyone to make an arbitrary judgment on. Wikipedia.org protected itself, it did not mandate users to be copyright lawyers. When a group of users form a cabal to impose their views, that is in fact discrimination and doing it selectively and repeatedly constitutes harassment. A user to Wikipedia is entitled to use the site in accordance with the owners terms -- not yours or mine. There are many "brave" loudmouths who hide behind their non-USA residence who don't worry about harassment because the prime and serious damage will be to Wikipedia.org, not themselves should a provoked user or rights group decide to protect themselves from abuse. In this regard, I find it incredible that you are willing to think that a totally unknown and unverifiable person logged into Wikipedia under any user name they choose can simply say: "I took this photo myself" or "The person who took this photo has given me permission to upload it to wikipedia and you accept it. Mind boggling that you would accept such implausible claims as adequate legal protection. The DMCA was created just so innocent website operators couldn't be held liable for the actions of the uncaring few. Joe Canuck 15:31 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
OK Joe you ke saying you will contact the "owners of Wikipedia.org". Then why not e-mail Jimbo Wales?? I am shore he will agree with me and everyone else that you are wrong. -fonzy
I vote to delete all those things Joe uploaded. Hello, Joe. I'm afraid I don't follow your reasoning at all. If somebody objects to their work being reproduced here, there is nothing stopping them coming and deleting it themselves. For what it's worth, I'm in totally in favour of deleting all copyright violations, not out of respect for the notion of "intellectual property", but because I think Wikipedia should be written (and photographed) by Wikipedians, and nobody else. GrahamN 16:38 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
GrahamN - you are entitled to an opinion but not to judge what is or isn't copyright. Nor do you have the right to impose your unfounded opinions on others. Deleting my legally posted photos violates my right to use Wikipedia as specified by the owners. What if a group shows up here (User:Vikings was called a group, I think?) who think all users should sign an oath to pray to their God? Do you go along, or go away, or argue against it because that is not what the owners intended? And if that small group intimidates others, do you quit? WEikipedia needs users, and the volunteer Administrators had their banning powers removed for a very real reason.
To User: Ms. Knott - Sorry, Ms. knott, but you and I are not allowed to arbitrarily judge. Wikipedia wasn't created to make lawyers out of users nor to create arguments for no just cause. Photos are non arguable, unlike text where there will always be differences. When we usurp Wikipedia.org's rules and impose our personal legal opinions on another, we only insult users and turn them away, all because we "think" or its a "possible" copyright violation. The law doesn't work on "I think" or "gee, maybe", it works on fact. Morality isn't the issue here, otherwise User:JHK would not have left. There are articles tat too, disgust me. (And oh yes, the unchallenged clitoris photo is a copyright violation, in my opinion.) I see you posted an image that you claim you created. The fact is, you cannot prove it. Do you plan to post your full name, proof of identity, full address etc to support your claim? I can assure, Wikipedia.org does not want that and that is why you or anyone can check in under any name you choose. And, it is an absolute fact that copying images off the internet is legal in hundreds of thousands of cases. Are you qualified to judge which photo is or which isn't? Who says Album covers, that studios paid tens of thousands to have designed, are okay to copy? Check the image list. Look at the number posted with no explanation while others make claims that can't be proven. Can you judge one of USER:Jirl's as to whether he actually took the photo, that he is who he says he is, and that he actually owns that photo? He “claims” he took them, but can he prove it? You can't, I can't and no one else her can either. That is why the DMCA exists. Delete one of Joe Blow's and he will demand all labeled as "taken by me" to be deleted because the claim cannot be proven. And how about Image:Espresso.jpg. -- Wapcaplet ? Can he prove copyright? I know a painting of a cup of coffee that sold for $7 million and a photo of an apple that sold for over $200m. As to the morality involved with photos, that is what an open site means can happen if people choose. But, Wikipedia.org is not at risk under any circumstances and they certainly don’t expect you or me to be forced into a legal position we cannot defend. The risk, is when some nutcase starts harassing people. Wikipedia.org must, repeat must, be named as co-respondent in any action(s) against that User. And, there are users here whose sole purpose is to satisfy a need for power that has nothing to do with morality or the law. Support them if you like, but believe me, those kind of abusers with their arbitrary actions and conduct are the real and potentially terminal risk for Wikipedia.org. not a photo that they have no liability for. The reputation of Wikipedia is indeed harmed by gaining a reputation of an illegal cabal harassing sincere users who in fact obey all regulations established by the site owners. You said:
Sweet and simple: You have no right to judge or to create YOUR rules. My photos were posted in accordance with the rules established by the ONLY authority: the site owners, NOT YOU. So, please stop ranting and move on because I am tired of those who wish to impose their views. As I said, delete my photos and you will have violated my rights. I looked at your photos, Arpingstone's, JTDirls, Maverick149 etc. None are proveable as to copyright ownership. And no, there is no such thing as "less" violations or "more acceptables". If you don't like my actions, then ask the site owners to review the matter and, as promised by USER:JIRl, demand I be banned. Also, I remind you for the last time that you should check with the owners before you take arbitrary actions because the consequences could be severe. That is, if you care about Wikipedia.org. And, by the way, I am not some complaining nut who fills up his/her user contribution list by creating meaningless little edits to articles. I back up my words and beliefs in the value and integrity of Wikipedia by doing quality, in-depth articles to the best of my ability. Joe Canuck 17:32 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I agree 100%: "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here." But photos are fixed, unalterable objects that are given a specific legal authorization as an upload by the owners of Wikipediua.org. End of discussion on my part. Joe Canuck 17:44 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Given the history of DW/Black Widow/Joe Canuck in returning to wikipedia even after banning, I think it is fair to presume that the banning of Joe Canuck will not mean an end to the danger that these images may still be used by him. The odds are that he will return in the near future and if the images still exist, reinsert them. To ensure he can't, I would suggest that the image be deleted immediately the seven day waiting period is over, which means that they should be deleted as soon as possible after the 26th of June. A question: given that the user who downloaded them and so knows their source is now banned (and it is unlikely anyone else on wiki will be able to trace their source), do wiki rules allow in such circumstances for their deletion ahead of the 7 day waiting period? As the person who put them here I will not be the person who deletes them in any case. FearÉIREANN 09:24 21 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I have voted against User:Jtdirl’s statement that the images posted by User:Joe Canuck should be deleted. And I gave the reasons on the Wikipedia:Votes for deletion page. ChuckM 20:08 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Comments below moved from Wikipedia:Votes for deletion by Wapcaplet 21:15 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I have been on vacation and returning today I learned of the ban of User:Joe Canuck. I logged on to Wikipedia because of my interest in sports and because of what I thought was User Joe Canuck’s real good stuff being done on the different years in sports. I read the list above and have some questions about the photos that User:Jtdirl says should be deleted as well as statements he has made.
User:Jtdirl says: The following images he (User:Joe Canuck) lists as fair use but gives no indication of source, a requirement to protect wiki should any dispute arise over whether they are indeed covered by fair use.
My question to User:Jtdirl is: What requirement, and how could there ever be a dispute? If a copyright owner gives the required legal notification to Wikipedia of an infringement, there is no dispute, the photo is removed. It is simple and no big deal and no risk of any kind to Wikipedia who cannot be held liable if someone uploads a copyrighted photo because they have, as User:Joe Canuck, pointed out, registered for protection under the DMCA. By actually reading what User:Joe Canuck said, I can understand his point is that any disputes are by Wikipedia users, all with their own opinion that repeatedly contradicts one another. The discussion pages are filled with hundreds of opinions. And that is a waste of time, involving people arguing unnecessarily that only confuses Users as to right legal policy. I found where User Maverick149 said we are pretty liberal on fair use, User Eloquence gave his opinion, Brion Vibber a different opinion, and so on. User Stan Shebs asserts that stamps are okay to upload, another person says maps are okay, and User:TUF-KAT has loaded dozens of Album/CD covers saying these are fair game for copying. The Epopt says the magazine covers he uploaded are okay to copy. Then, like Maverick 149’s image of Strom Thurmond that he only labelled as: Public Image. I found articles where some photos got a label: Image of the profile of the Roman Emperor Constans from a coin I own.Then the poster at Stop Esso campaign says: Stop Esso campaign leaflet by Greenpeace, Freinds of the Earth and People and Planet. Who says this is not copyright? Can you get permission? I doubt it, because they worry if someone copies and alters it or uses it unfavorably? Another photo lists the information as (Photo of the children's writer J.P. Martin) . Repeatiung the photo title is proof of copyright? And there are lots like that. And, many photos are uploaded by someone claiming they took the photo themselves including User:Jtdirl doing it many times. Who is right in all these claims? User: Joe Canuck's photo uploads are exactly the same as many of these but he never claimed he took any himself. So why are his photos the only ones being questioned?
User:Jtdirl (James Duffy) stated on his e-mail to [WikiEN-l]: He (User:Joe Canuck) systematically downloaded a series of images to wikipedia, many of which may well have been copyright.
Do we delete photos because they may be copright? And if so, who is qualified to make that judgment? And what about all the other mays? I looked at one photo User:Jtdirl) uploaded at the same time as Joe Canuck’s of Glasnevin Cemetery. User:Jtdirl claimed he took the picture(s). I don’t know, but I think I saw at least one or two somewhere on the Web months ago. Should it be banned? Should we just accept User:Jtdirl’s word? That would be a big legal risk wouldn’t it? If we accept his, then we must accept the word of everyone who makes such a claim. All this really makes for the possibility of a lot of abuse because who can prove what? Maybe Joe Canuck took all those photos or they are his inherited property. I have some excellent sports photos of celebrities I took myself at the US Open and elsewhere. Do you take my word, if I post them by simply saying I took them. If so, how do you know if I am telling the truth or not?
And what makes me mighty nervous is that what User:Jtdirl seems to be doing here, is questioning one person, but not others. That was what Joe Canuck complained about so I have to question User:Jtdirl’s motivations. Maybe he can explain why he has not wanted to delete the many other questionable circumstances surrounding photos being posted by others while User Joe Canuck was doing his thing. And for User: Jtdirl to demand all his questions be answered in fact is silly and a contradiction of the openess at Wikipedia to insist that any user is obliged to answer any questions at Wikipedia on any subject. That leaves the door open to masive abuse. Wikipedia was created so you can come here and be free to edit as you see fit. There is no condition that you spend your time answering any question from the thousands of users here.
I took a minute and went through the last 500 images posted. There are plenty uploaded in the exact same manner as those of User Joe Canuck. But, on the person’s page or on this votes for deletion page, I cannot see any one that has been questioned. Why not? User Joe Canuck does seem to be targeted and I note that User:Jtdirl said on this page:
I may be stupid, but how can User:Jtdirl say that without providing proof? I note that Wikipedia owner Jimbo Wales most definitely did not agree with that unproven statement. User:Jtdirl using innuendo seems to contradict common decency, particularly when a he has someone banned who then cannot respond to such remarks on this page. And it was User:Jtdirl who had User Joe Canuck banned on his unproven words to Mr. Jimbo Wales without allowing User Joe Canuck to defend the accusations. Accept photos from some without question but delete those of others uploaded in the exact same manner is certainly questionable conduct. Then to ban someone without trial, making slanderous accusations is unacceptable and intimidation against all users. I see too that User:Jtdirl (James Duffy) also stated on his e-mail to [WikiEN-l] Re: Joe Canuck : When a number of users asked him (User:Joe Canuck]] to clarify their status, he became highly verbally abusive, issued legal threats and then deleted the questions.
I read all of User Joe Canuck’s staements and this statement by User:Jtdirl appears to be a complete falsehood as I found no such abuse or threats of any kind. What I saw was repeated harassment that User:Joe Canuch complained about. What User Joe Canuck did do was point out the possible legal ramifications for Wikipedia if a User publicly uses this website to libel another User. Perhaps I missed it so User:Jtdirl can provide the proof of these statements because if untrue they do cause great risk to Wikipedia and all of us who only want to enjoy working here.
Below are just a tiny few of many photos that have recently been placed in Wikipedia while this matter has been going on. Why were none of these questioned? And with all the differences of opinion, who is right? If I upload a photo to Wikipedia, I don’t want someone deleting it just because they may not like me or for any other personal reason they have. Users photos should not be deleted based on the opinions of a few unqualified people. And, I am certain the owners of Wikipedia who set the rules for uploading photos, are just like the many other websites licensed by the DMCA that are fully protected and risk-free from an actual copyright infringement if it ever occurred. Look at the image details for these:
Image in the public domain, from http://wwwihm.nlm.nih.gov/
However, for User:Maveric149's claim to public domain for the [Image:Linnaeus.jpg] at article Carl Linnaeus, this is what the website states:
And there are lots more uploaded images to consider. I may just be a sports nut who can’t make contributions to nuclear physics but I know what I see. And no, I am not Joe Canuck or any other person in the history of Wikipedia and he was the only guy interested in doing the big job to include sports highlights in Wikipedia. And, in my opinion, something smells. ChuckM 20:06 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)
No, I think you are wrong. What I read, and I did read every single word, is that he says it is not a legal requirement to provide details on photos. Note above from the list, many others including you, Wapcaplet conduct themselves in the same manner as Joe Canuck did and not a word is said. Do you have special privlidges here that the rest of us don't? And just so you understand the law: this site is the property of Wikipedia.org. Open content means if they choose to pay the bills and keep it on the Web, others can freeely copy your contributions. You and I certainly don't own it. Plus, I think User: Joe Canuck tried to help by telling us that if someone sues another User for libel, it means Wikipedia will automatically be named and will be dragged into court and pay lawyers. The lawsuit against Kazaa was against them asking the Court to order Kazaa to release the Users true Id's. If you or I abuse another Wikipedia User we risk dragging Wikipedia into a lawsuit. Post a copyrighted photo either deliberately or in honest error and no harm of any kind can come to Wikipedia. That is indisputable fact. And, I read some things on User:Jtdirl, this guy has repeatly said libelous things to others that are the real danger here. I'm not interested in arguing this. Everyone here can make their own decisions but I'm not going to start picking on one person or make false statements about them that could get me and Wikipedia sued. ChuckM 22:20 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I have a copyright question that, as of yet, no one has answered (I hope this is the right place for it). Is it permissable to use a screen shot from a computer program? Is this considered fair use or copyright infringement? I know this is a tricky question, but since the 'pedia has so many articles about 1000's of peices of software, it could really benefit from some images of them running.
Before someone answers right away, "No! It's copyright infringement! Go away!" I remember a case several years ago regarding Electronic Arts and their program Deluxe Paint. EA claimed that they had a copyright on every image created with DP since they owned the copyright for DP. The courts struck them down saying that they did have the copyright for DP, but not for content created by the tool. Couldn't the same reasoning be applied to screens of software running? For example, if I author a letter with MS Word, I've used it create an image of my letter, so is taking a screen shot of it a copyright violation?
I really do want a definitive answer to this, as I'd like to enhance a lot of articles with pertinent (quality) screen shots. But I also don't want to violate any copyright laws or put the 'pedia in jeopardy. Can anyone give me (or point me to) a qualified answer to this? — Frecklefoot 16:13 10 Jul 2003 (UTC)
I am not entirely sure what you mean by "use a screen shot from a computer program", but I understand that you want to create a screenshot of some software running on your machine. That's just fine: copyright protects works. Now, if you create a screenshot of Microsoft Word, you're not even making a copy of the work "Microsoft Word" because the work is the software which is, itself, not copied. (This would be like saying Microsoft owns all documents that you wrote with Word.) It's not even a question of "fair use" because that would only kick in when a work has been copied. – Of couse, if you steal a screenshot from a Microsoft web page, you are making a copy of a picture, which is something that might be a work of authorship, and that's a different issue.
You are correct that things become more complicated if the screenshot itself contains a work of authorship like artwork – of which the user would make a copy then. However, then I'd say fair use applies, especially if the shot is scaled down. – The other issues you bring up need some clarification. 1) The question was about copyright; when logos or the "Microsoft" name are involved, we may run into trademark issues. That's a different can of worms. 2) As you mention license agreements, Microsoft only has the right to impose restrictions on you with these if you need a license in the first place, because the law protects something: a license gives you rights you would otherwise not have. If there is no work of authorship copied, or no trademark (or even patent) infringed, you don't have to give a rat's ass about license agreements. Microsoft cannot define when copyright or trademark law are in effect, as much as they'd like to. Now, how they think they can prohibit screenshots of the boot process, I'd think, would be a trademark issue because their logos are prominently exhibited, but again, that's not a copyright issue in my view. 3) Disparaging Microsoft is yet another thing regulated by competition law. Of course you, as a Wikipedia contributor, may write a review of a piece of Microsoft software and say that it sucks. Whether IBM may do it is something different. – So yes it's complex, but what I was saying is copyright only kicks in when you make a copy of a work of authorship, and you usually don't.
Are any and all pictures of Civil War (i.e. 1860-1865) pictures taken before 1920 in the public domain, whether the site hosting them states explicitly that they are in the public domain, or not? Like, [ http://www.
(UTC)
HADI BANGASH WAS BORN ON 12 12 2001 AND THEN HE STUDYED IN HIS VILLAGE AND THEN HE LOST HIS FATHER AND HIS MOTHER SEND HIM ISLAMABAD AND NOW HE IS STUDYING IN ISLAMABAD SCHOOL NAMED SKY SCHOOL SYSTEM AND HE WANTS TO AN ASTRONAUT
I don't think I have seen any discussion concerning copyright of photographs of 3D artworks.
Here I am guessing that a photograph of any sculpture would be a creative work and so any photograph of a sculpture published pre-1923 would be OK as {{PD-US}} and any photograph released GFDL (or similar) would be OK.
However, could there also be copyright on the sculpture itself (or would that only apply to a 3D reproduction of the sculpture). Are there any differences if the sculpture or artwork is in a public place ( [2] this link draws some distinction for public art). -- Solipsist 20:17, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I have scanned numerous images from original pre-1923 books, magazines, postcards, etc for use in Wikipedia. The vast majority are from U.S. sources. What criteria can be used to determine when I can simply mark them as "PD" (public domain) as opposed to "PD-US" (which marks the image page "This image is in the public domain in the United States and possibly other jurisdictions")? I have asked this before, and have yet to get an answer. Is this image of Gen Ludendorff scanned from a 1918 US magazine public domain? Or this 19th century view of the Palace of Westminster scanned from a US stereopticon card? How do I tell? I'd like to mark many images as simply "Public domain" rather than PD-US if there is some way to tell when that would be allowed. -- Infrogmation 15:16, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
On a related note, how can I know if I can use some of my old postcards, stereocards, etc printed in the UK or Germany? Is there a date similar to the US pre-1923 that is safe to assume public domain? -- Infrogmation 15:16, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Yes. Creators must 70 years dead. -- 134.130.68.65 15:44, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia_talk:Copyrights#Copyright_question, thanks, ( Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 16:15, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I photographed some objects from a local (US) museum. I assumed that that would mean I owned the rights to the photographs (especially as the items in question are a couple centuries old, and therefore in the public domain), and could therefore upload them, but then I checked the museum's website, where I found this quote:
Well, Wikipedia definitely qualifies as non-commercial, but personal? I'm thinking that's not going to fly. What do you think? Do I have to give up on uploading these pictures? -- Iustinus 01:43, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I have another museum question. I took these photos at museums in China: [3] [4] [5] (these are low-res versions not hosted on WP). I am now back in Australia. I also asked this on commons ( see Commons:Village_pump#Pictures_of_museum_exhibits) but it seems like no one is sure. :| Any advice would be appreciated. I'd love to use the last one especially. pfctdayelise 14:33, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi, forgive me if this has been covered anywhere, but I can't find it. Does it still fall under free use for an album cover, book cover, etc. to edit it? For instance in an article on Joe Blow, can one provide a picture of Joe Blow cropped from the cover of the book the Life of Joe Blow, captioned as "picture of Joe Blow from cover of The Life of Joe Blow" under free use? Does it matter at all if the book is referenced in the article? Gzuckier 14:44, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The image is there becase the design on the coin features the Forth Bridge, so it is relevant to the article. However, the {{ currency}} license template says "their use on Wikipedia is contended to be fair use when they are used for the purposes of commentary or criticism relating to the image of the currency itself". Is the use in the the article fair use or not? Thryduulf 15:18, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
I recently found two untagged images (now using permission, which is better then nothing), that I have confirmed where uploaded by their creator (a professional book cover artist). I have contacted him and he wishes for them to remain on Wiki (and is willing to upload some more), but he is not sure which tag is the best for him. He wrote: I am still confused--now that I am able to examine the permissions, is there any one I can use that doesn't give up my copyright to the work? I am happy to let Wikipedia use it, but it is still a valuable intellectual property for me that I regularly re-sell, so i don't want to put it into public domain, or give up the copywrite. I just want to give permission for it to be used in this one instance, but i don't see any permission that does that. Can you advise how to proceed without giving up everything? I know we don't accept permissions anymore. What do you think can be the solution? Perhaps he can release under a copyleft a low-res version, and keep full rights to a high res ones, like we did with Template:Polish coats of arms by Tadeusz Gajl?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 11:03, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
I have proposed at Wikipedia talk:Image copyright tags that {{ CopyrightedFreeUse}} should be deprecated in favor of {{ NoRightsReserved}}. Please comment there. — Ilmari Karonen ( talk) 10:31, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
Sorry if this as been asked before, but what is the proper tagging of a photo taken from a magazine? I know there is a tag for magazine covers, but what about a picture inside the mag? -- Jaysscholar 14:42, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Earlier today, I had this conversation at the Help Desk:
Trademark Does anyone know if there's a forum to discuss copyright status on WP images? I'm having a little trouble finding a place to ask my question. In particular, I'm concerned that WP doesn't use the Commons template ( Commons:Template:Trademarked) for trademarked pictures such as pictures of products, etc. Does anyone know about this, or know where else I can ask this question? tiZom (2¢) 19:07, 29 November 2006 (UTC) Actually, I just noticed that we do have Template:Trademarked, but it is not nearly as widespread as it should be. I guess I'm just curious as to why... tiZom (2¢) 19:27, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
So if someone takes a picture of a trademarked product (let's say for argument's sake Image:Pepsicup.jpg), and licenses it under GNU free doc license, then anyone can use this picture for any use (which may even involve commercial use), so long as they simply credit the photographer ( User:Appraiser) Something about this just doesn't seem right... unless I'm missing something - which is often the case :o) tiZom (2¢) 20:08, 29 November 2006 (UTC) |
The Help Desk typically isn't that great for ongoing conversations since people tend to look only at the most recent topic. At any rate, I did a little bit more research and found this page. Can anyone help me with my most recent comment up there? Thanks! tiZom (2¢) 02:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Aha! I just found Wikipedia:General disclaimer#Trademarks. Case closed. tiZom (2¢) 20:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
So I have an image of a photograph of a musician on stage, and I took this photograph from the audience area. What likely is its copyright status? Can I release it to the public domain on Wikipedia? Please advise. Thanks, AppleJuggler 03:12, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
There is an open Rfc page on image use policy & copyright which can be found here, Wikipedia:Requests for comment/FC Vorskla Poltava image. -- Palffy 21:25, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
I took a picture of a 3 dimensional objects that have a logo. Can I use this pic in Wikipedia?
Image use policy It says: "Photographs of three-dimensional objects almost always generate a new copyright in addition to copyrights of objects."
There are many instances of the logos apearing in many pictures. Bravehartbear 23:03, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm the creator of this image. Is there anyway to publish this image on my user page? Is this a derivative work? Hessam 23:00, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
The logo of my app has been uploaded with a "public domain" license and, despite what the Permission field says, without permission from the author: /info/en/?search=File:Joplin-icon.svg
The actual license is there: https://github.com/laurent22/joplin/blob/dev/Assets/LICENSE
How do I go about correcting this? I don't mind if the logo appears on the Wikipedia article, but I don't want it to say it's public domain. It's like Firefox, even though the app is open source, the logo usage is restricted.
Also what to do about the history of this file? The template is lying when it says "This work has been released into the public domain by its author" because I've never released it into the public domain. And I wouldn't want someone to dig this up and says "well that version was open source so it can be used freely". Any suggestions?
(Also I'm a bit shocked that it's possible to grant so many permissions on behalf of someone else - without providing any proof that they are authorised to do this)
92.40.176.255 ( talk) 22:58, 16 July 2021 (UTC)