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I took a look at what would happen if we said that 50% rounded up of the articles in a topic had to be featured, and it looks pretty good, it would require, in the vast majority of cases, 1 additional featured article in less that thirty percent of our topics. Lets take a look;
I propose, and await your feedback, that by May 1st, 2010, 50% rounded up be the new featured topic criteria. Since there is now a Good Topic, and the work needed to do this is not too difficult to achieve for most topics, we should do this. That way, for the first time all featured topics will actually have a majority of featured articles! Also, giving till May is doable for pretty much all the topics, and we could give the seven topics with more than one to do more time if that is an issue. Thoughts? Judgesurreal777 ( talk) 21:12, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
(Outdenting for a subtopic) - I know of the 3 of mine you listed, the 20N topic needs 173 to be an FA and it will be good to go, Warren would need a combination for 149, 254 and 418 somehow redone, as they are closer than the others. Essex has 73 which I will FAC when ready, and hopefully 431 will follow it once done.Mitch32( The Password is... See here!) 16:38, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
My two cents: make it April 1, 2010, such that it will be exactly one year after the 1/4 => 1/3 bumping. Nergaal ( talk) 22:03, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Further, with regards to the VT Hokies topic, I'm not convinced it should get more time, because I just think that this is a bit unfair. Say for example that another topic came along between then and now with 23 articles, of which 8 are featured, should that topic get until September as well to get up to 50%? I think the reason people feel that that topic should have more time maybe reflects the fact that larger topics are harder to get featured, and as the %age goes up, that only becomes more of a problem. I'm not entirely sure what we can do about that.
Think about this - is a topic with 24 articles of which 12 are featured better or worse than one with 25 articles of which 12 are featured? It seems to me it's worse, and yet the former topic would be featured, and the latter one wouldn't be. But what about one with 4 articles, of which 2 are featured, vs 5 and 2? Well I dunno if that's any different, but with a topic with just 2 FAs, there is more of a feeling that it's fair enough that it should have more FAs in the mix as it looks a bit GA-heavy.
So what am I getting at? Maybe a straight percentage requirement is the wrong way to go, and there should be some curve to it so that the requirement gets less steep the bigger a topic gets - so until 12 articles it's around 50%, but once you get up to 20 it's down towards 40% and it bottoms out at 33% at 25 articles, or something. This does make things more complicated, but if we had a table explaining how many FAs various sizes of topics would need, then this would make things clearer - rst20xx ( talk) 23:47, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Support raising standard YellowMonkey ( bananabucket) 01:14, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
It makes sense to me that if you're more than 50% GA, you're a good topic, whereas if you're more than 50% FA, you're a featured topic. So yes, I agree. Serendi pod ous 11:03, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Can I just ask for a clarification on what we're voting on here? In his initial proposal, Judgesurreal777 proposed we make it that "50% rounded up of the articles in a topic had to be featured" - what exactly does "rounded up" mean? I assume that the intended meaning was that "at least half of the articles are featured?" ie it would be acceptable for exactly half to be featured, but not for less than half, which is similar to how things are currently, except with half instead of one third - rst20xx ( talk) 18:02, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
It seems like we're all pretty much in agreement; should we just go ahead pick a date (May? September?) and put the notice on the Criteria page? -- Pres N 22:16, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Is anybody else thinking that an FT should have the main article of the topic be featured (since it is a featured topic on that article)? Nergaal ( talk) 06:18, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
I've been trying to think of ways to integrate featured pictures into the featured topic process, and so I'm just going to throw out an idea. Since we already have a picture in each topic box, I was thinking that we could try to encourage editors working on a topic to find/make a featured picture for the topic box by putting in the criteria that if there is a relevant featured picture for the topic box, then that can count as a featured item. So, hypothetically, if you had a topic with 9 articles and 4 are featured articles, but there is also a featured picture for the topic box, then there would be 5 out of 10 featured items (50%). Note that the topic box picture would only count as a "bonus" item if it was featured, so if it's not a featured picture it wouldn't count against the percentage. Thoughts? Rreagan007 ( talk) 19:33, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
There is a proposal to promote wp:quote.
I do not know why candidates was notified, but they were so you should be notified as well. 174.3.107.176 ( talk) 14:26, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Just a note, I'll be working up 30 Rock (season 4) as soon as the Emmy info comes out on July 8. However, is there anyway to extend the retention period for Season 5? There is very little info out there on the season, as awards season for Season 4 hasn't even kicked into gear. I could expand the current stub to at least have the proper formatting, and such, but any PR on it would be largely meaningless (and that would seem sad to force through a PR just to meet a deadline). Staxringold talk contribs 22:21, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Do all entries have to be GA or FA quality. I know that sounds a daft question but I was looking at putting a Good Topic together where two of the articles are WP:MILHIST A Class but were never submitted for GA. -- Jim Sweeney ( talk) 11:06, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm a tad confused... wasn't the cutoff for 50% featured October 2010? So why were all the topics summarily demoted on September 5? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs( talk) 21:32, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Not sure how many people still follow this thread, but there are two things that were brought up about featured criteria in the past, which deserve discussing in the near future:
Nergaal ( talk) 04:45, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
I can think of one possible Topic which ideally would have about 17 articles at the same level in the structure, plus a header article. I can also think of another possible Topic which would ideally exactly 17 plus header. I know the subject area in both cases, and in both cases there's no rational ground on subdivide such prospective Topics (without gaming the system). Most WP Topics are much smaller, e.g. wp:Featured_topics/Pirates_of_the_Caribbean_films (which I like a lot) and several 2-3 article Topics about bird species. Do the criteria have a bias to small topics? -- Philcha ( talk) 13:41, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
So I've been thinking about this a bit, and while reading over the featured topic criteria I realized something. Criterion 3.a.i. states "(i) At least one half (50%) of the items are featured class (featured articles or featured lists), with a minimum of two featured items" (emphasis added). The last phrase isn't as meaningful as it used to be, since the standard was raised to 50% some time ago. Back when the requirement was only 25% or 33% smaller topics with only 3, 4, 5, 6, or even 7 items had to meet a higher percentage standard than larger topics did. Now, only a topic with 3 items is meeting a higher percentage standard with this requirement. I wonder if maybe we should increase the standard to a minimum of 3 featured items? Rreagan007 ( talk) 01:18, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
I see this currently listed as one of the criteria for items contained within a good or featured topic. However, I see little or no evidence that those voting on whether a collection of articles/lists etc have ever checked that the "referencing" is of a high quality. In fact, I've been shot down for noting that many links in many articles within a proposed good/featured topic are actually _not_ of high quality, or they are dead, or similar. Perhaps the people that administer this section of Wikipedia need to consider if this section (i.e. including the referencing ) is really part of the criteria for a good/featured topic, because right now, most contributors to the voting page don't even give it a passing glance. Right now I would suggest this clause is removed since people who vote for featured topics pay no attention to the quality of the constituent elements other than to check they are either GA, FA or FL, nothing more. There is no more quality control than that. The abject lack of quality control should be reflected in the criteria. The Rambling Man ( talk) 22:18, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Not sure who is following this, but would anybody be opposed to increase the grace period to 6 months? Nergaal ( talk) 01:11, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Is it possible for a topic's lead article to be broader in scope than the topic itself? For example, I've been eyeing topics such as the Endemic Birds of the Sulu Archipelago and Extinct Birds of the United States, which would include 4 and 4-9 articles respectively. However, it would be a bit ridiculous to have a List of Endemic Birds of the Sulu Archipelago as it would be so small. Possible, but sort of pointless. Would I be able to count a List of Birds of the Sulu Archipelago with a section detailing the endemics and count that as the lead article for my hypothetical Endemic Birds of the Sulu Archipelago topic? Thanks. Rufous-crowned Sparrow ( talk) 02:11, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
Just throwing it out there, but the 50% rule is pretty hefty once you get to a decent size, and I worry that could dissuade people from attempting big topics. What if, for big topics, there was a gradual reduction to the 50% rule? Hypothetically, a 100 article topic would be near impossible to get 50 articles to FA, and yet I believe that having 30 articles featured, for example, would be quite an accomplishment and worthy of featured topic status, IMO. Just throwing it out there. Not sure what the gradation would be though. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 03:12, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
I think having a requirement for FUTURE FTs to have a decent short paragraph would be adequate. I've tried to push nominators to create one anyways, but I think since FTs CAN actually appear on the mainpage this would be an appropriate, easy requirement. Also, for the sake of logistics, previous FTs would not be required to have such an intro (yet) since I am assuming those can be slowly filled up in time once this new criteria becomes standard. Nergaal ( talk) 16:44, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I took a look at what would happen if we said that 50% rounded up of the articles in a topic had to be featured, and it looks pretty good, it would require, in the vast majority of cases, 1 additional featured article in less that thirty percent of our topics. Lets take a look;
I propose, and await your feedback, that by May 1st, 2010, 50% rounded up be the new featured topic criteria. Since there is now a Good Topic, and the work needed to do this is not too difficult to achieve for most topics, we should do this. That way, for the first time all featured topics will actually have a majority of featured articles! Also, giving till May is doable for pretty much all the topics, and we could give the seven topics with more than one to do more time if that is an issue. Thoughts? Judgesurreal777 ( talk) 21:12, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
(Outdenting for a subtopic) - I know of the 3 of mine you listed, the 20N topic needs 173 to be an FA and it will be good to go, Warren would need a combination for 149, 254 and 418 somehow redone, as they are closer than the others. Essex has 73 which I will FAC when ready, and hopefully 431 will follow it once done.Mitch32( The Password is... See here!) 16:38, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
My two cents: make it April 1, 2010, such that it will be exactly one year after the 1/4 => 1/3 bumping. Nergaal ( talk) 22:03, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Further, with regards to the VT Hokies topic, I'm not convinced it should get more time, because I just think that this is a bit unfair. Say for example that another topic came along between then and now with 23 articles, of which 8 are featured, should that topic get until September as well to get up to 50%? I think the reason people feel that that topic should have more time maybe reflects the fact that larger topics are harder to get featured, and as the %age goes up, that only becomes more of a problem. I'm not entirely sure what we can do about that.
Think about this - is a topic with 24 articles of which 12 are featured better or worse than one with 25 articles of which 12 are featured? It seems to me it's worse, and yet the former topic would be featured, and the latter one wouldn't be. But what about one with 4 articles, of which 2 are featured, vs 5 and 2? Well I dunno if that's any different, but with a topic with just 2 FAs, there is more of a feeling that it's fair enough that it should have more FAs in the mix as it looks a bit GA-heavy.
So what am I getting at? Maybe a straight percentage requirement is the wrong way to go, and there should be some curve to it so that the requirement gets less steep the bigger a topic gets - so until 12 articles it's around 50%, but once you get up to 20 it's down towards 40% and it bottoms out at 33% at 25 articles, or something. This does make things more complicated, but if we had a table explaining how many FAs various sizes of topics would need, then this would make things clearer - rst20xx ( talk) 23:47, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Support raising standard YellowMonkey ( bananabucket) 01:14, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
It makes sense to me that if you're more than 50% GA, you're a good topic, whereas if you're more than 50% FA, you're a featured topic. So yes, I agree. Serendi pod ous 11:03, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Can I just ask for a clarification on what we're voting on here? In his initial proposal, Judgesurreal777 proposed we make it that "50% rounded up of the articles in a topic had to be featured" - what exactly does "rounded up" mean? I assume that the intended meaning was that "at least half of the articles are featured?" ie it would be acceptable for exactly half to be featured, but not for less than half, which is similar to how things are currently, except with half instead of one third - rst20xx ( talk) 18:02, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
It seems like we're all pretty much in agreement; should we just go ahead pick a date (May? September?) and put the notice on the Criteria page? -- Pres N 22:16, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Is anybody else thinking that an FT should have the main article of the topic be featured (since it is a featured topic on that article)? Nergaal ( talk) 06:18, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
I've been trying to think of ways to integrate featured pictures into the featured topic process, and so I'm just going to throw out an idea. Since we already have a picture in each topic box, I was thinking that we could try to encourage editors working on a topic to find/make a featured picture for the topic box by putting in the criteria that if there is a relevant featured picture for the topic box, then that can count as a featured item. So, hypothetically, if you had a topic with 9 articles and 4 are featured articles, but there is also a featured picture for the topic box, then there would be 5 out of 10 featured items (50%). Note that the topic box picture would only count as a "bonus" item if it was featured, so if it's not a featured picture it wouldn't count against the percentage. Thoughts? Rreagan007 ( talk) 19:33, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
There is a proposal to promote wp:quote.
I do not know why candidates was notified, but they were so you should be notified as well. 174.3.107.176 ( talk) 14:26, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Just a note, I'll be working up 30 Rock (season 4) as soon as the Emmy info comes out on July 8. However, is there anyway to extend the retention period for Season 5? There is very little info out there on the season, as awards season for Season 4 hasn't even kicked into gear. I could expand the current stub to at least have the proper formatting, and such, but any PR on it would be largely meaningless (and that would seem sad to force through a PR just to meet a deadline). Staxringold talk contribs 22:21, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Do all entries have to be GA or FA quality. I know that sounds a daft question but I was looking at putting a Good Topic together where two of the articles are WP:MILHIST A Class but were never submitted for GA. -- Jim Sweeney ( talk) 11:06, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm a tad confused... wasn't the cutoff for 50% featured October 2010? So why were all the topics summarily demoted on September 5? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs( talk) 21:32, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Not sure how many people still follow this thread, but there are two things that were brought up about featured criteria in the past, which deserve discussing in the near future:
Nergaal ( talk) 04:45, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
I can think of one possible Topic which ideally would have about 17 articles at the same level in the structure, plus a header article. I can also think of another possible Topic which would ideally exactly 17 plus header. I know the subject area in both cases, and in both cases there's no rational ground on subdivide such prospective Topics (without gaming the system). Most WP Topics are much smaller, e.g. wp:Featured_topics/Pirates_of_the_Caribbean_films (which I like a lot) and several 2-3 article Topics about bird species. Do the criteria have a bias to small topics? -- Philcha ( talk) 13:41, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
So I've been thinking about this a bit, and while reading over the featured topic criteria I realized something. Criterion 3.a.i. states "(i) At least one half (50%) of the items are featured class (featured articles or featured lists), with a minimum of two featured items" (emphasis added). The last phrase isn't as meaningful as it used to be, since the standard was raised to 50% some time ago. Back when the requirement was only 25% or 33% smaller topics with only 3, 4, 5, 6, or even 7 items had to meet a higher percentage standard than larger topics did. Now, only a topic with 3 items is meeting a higher percentage standard with this requirement. I wonder if maybe we should increase the standard to a minimum of 3 featured items? Rreagan007 ( talk) 01:18, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
I see this currently listed as one of the criteria for items contained within a good or featured topic. However, I see little or no evidence that those voting on whether a collection of articles/lists etc have ever checked that the "referencing" is of a high quality. In fact, I've been shot down for noting that many links in many articles within a proposed good/featured topic are actually _not_ of high quality, or they are dead, or similar. Perhaps the people that administer this section of Wikipedia need to consider if this section (i.e. including the referencing ) is really part of the criteria for a good/featured topic, because right now, most contributors to the voting page don't even give it a passing glance. Right now I would suggest this clause is removed since people who vote for featured topics pay no attention to the quality of the constituent elements other than to check they are either GA, FA or FL, nothing more. There is no more quality control than that. The abject lack of quality control should be reflected in the criteria. The Rambling Man ( talk) 22:18, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Not sure who is following this, but would anybody be opposed to increase the grace period to 6 months? Nergaal ( talk) 01:11, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Is it possible for a topic's lead article to be broader in scope than the topic itself? For example, I've been eyeing topics such as the Endemic Birds of the Sulu Archipelago and Extinct Birds of the United States, which would include 4 and 4-9 articles respectively. However, it would be a bit ridiculous to have a List of Endemic Birds of the Sulu Archipelago as it would be so small. Possible, but sort of pointless. Would I be able to count a List of Birds of the Sulu Archipelago with a section detailing the endemics and count that as the lead article for my hypothetical Endemic Birds of the Sulu Archipelago topic? Thanks. Rufous-crowned Sparrow ( talk) 02:11, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
Just throwing it out there, but the 50% rule is pretty hefty once you get to a decent size, and I worry that could dissuade people from attempting big topics. What if, for big topics, there was a gradual reduction to the 50% rule? Hypothetically, a 100 article topic would be near impossible to get 50 articles to FA, and yet I believe that having 30 articles featured, for example, would be quite an accomplishment and worthy of featured topic status, IMO. Just throwing it out there. Not sure what the gradation would be though. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 03:12, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
I think having a requirement for FUTURE FTs to have a decent short paragraph would be adequate. I've tried to push nominators to create one anyways, but I think since FTs CAN actually appear on the mainpage this would be an appropriate, easy requirement. Also, for the sake of logistics, previous FTs would not be required to have such an intro (yet) since I am assuming those can be slowly filled up in time once this new criteria becomes standard. Nergaal ( talk) 16:44, 30 April 2015 (UTC)