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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should " alt-text" be a requirement for all FAs? At present (per MOS:ACCIM and as expanded upon in MOS:ALT), it is part of our MoS and advised for WP:ACCESS reasons for those who are using a screen reader due to a visual impairment. Currently, its implementation at FAC is not universal: should we make it a requirement, possibly to be checked as part of an image review? - SchroCat ( talk) 19:39, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
Example
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alt=""
to avoid redundancy. We were told years ago that alt=photograph
or alt=map
were fine. Given the confusion, I think we should not require it.
SarahSV
(talk)
01:50, 15 February 2019 (UTC)I get the feeling the discussion has an odd emphasis on the “This is too hard, we can't do it” angle, rather than “This is how and to what degree we are practically able to do it” (on which latter point reasonable editors may disagree). The question really shouldn't be whether to require accessibility in the FA criteria, it should be which specific measures should be required, to what degree, and what tools do editors need (e.g. shared alt text on image page) in order to comply.SarahSV's argument is a valid one (I agree with her assessment of the status quo), but I also think, as an argument, it has a flaw: the reason we have widespread confusion and lack of expertise in this area is because we as a project have done too little to work on it (requiring it at FAC or GAN being two potential tools in the relevant toolchest). All such efforts require periods of confusion, disagreements, failures, discussions, wrong paths taken, corrections, and so forth. What the extensive archive at Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Alt text tells us is that starting by "making alt text required at FAC" is probably not a good idea today any more than it was a decade ago. However, I would argue that having alt text (and some surrounding issues) and accessibility a requirement at FAC is a desireable end state once certain prerequisites are in place. And the world and Wikipedia has changed since 2009: while the effort might land in the same place (or it might not), it probably wouldn't play out in the same way (for better or worse).What I would like to see discussed, with subsequent RfCs as appropriate, is what are the slow baby steps along the path that will eventually land at that desired end state? Is tooling a prerequisite perhaps? The WMF is working on structured data for Commons, and starting with captions for images. Maybe we should request they work on support for structured alternative text on Commons so that it can be shared between articles and projects? And reviewing for accessibility (alternative text being just one aspect of that) takes not just process but reviewers. Do we actually have anyone willing to take the lead on that, vaguely similar to how image reviews and source checks are handled today? If someone was willing to be the go-to person for accessibility reviews, and carrying the load for a good long while, we might be able to make it work; otherwise it probably won't.Nothing prevents reviewers who care about the issue from mentioning it in FA reviews now even if the criteria do not require it. That might be a good way to start. Perhaps there is some way we could mention accessibility in the criteria without making it a requirement to remind all concerned that it is an issue and encouraging them to go the extra mile? Some people mention MOS:LISTGAP as an aside in discussion threads when applicable, and similar type of gentle encouragement might move the needle at FAC too.Bottom line is that starting by adding alternative text as a criteria at FAC is unlikely to work; but I'd love to see effort put into more manageable and more likely to succeed first steps towards that. It's been a decade already (it's been a decade already?!?): let's think in terms of what can be achieved if we keep chipping away at it for the next decade! -- Xover ( talk) 08:07, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
|alt=painting
.
Wugapodes
[thɑk]
[ˈkan.ˌʧɹɪbz]
20:50, 11 March 2019 (UTC)On the FAC page
What's the consensus on ISBN formats for FAC? I've seen inconsistent use of ISBN-10 and ISBN-13, and even inconsistent hyphenation, attract comments in source reviews, which I then parrot in mine. Is this something we should be looking for in source reviews, or can we let it slide? Factotem ( talk) 22:47, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
Curious to hear from the @ FAC coordinators: what the 'official' line is. Would a candidate be 'marked down' if a nom refuses to address this issue after it has been raised by a reviewer? Factotem ( talk) 09:23, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks everyone for the clarification. All makes sense. Follow-up question: are there any on-wiki talk pages for the citation tools mentioned, specifically ones that relate to GBooks links? When reviewing articles that provide both GBooks links and ISBN numbers in the bibliography, I often find the two are mismatched; GBooks links to one edition, while the ISBN relates to a different edition (a problem compounded by the fact that GBooks often lists the details for one edition on the "about" page, but offers a preview for a different edition). This becomes a problem when the two editions have different paginations. If there's a tool that automates the generation of the bibliography, then maybe it needs tweaking. Factotem ( talk) 09:03, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
My question was not about whether or not GBook links are a good idea, but about the accuracy of citation tools used to generate bibliography sections. The problem came up in the Marchioness disaster FAC with https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=59XvXKbyvZIC. Plugging that URL into http://reftag.appspot.com/ gives:
but the GBooks preview is actually:
I've notified the app owner, but they do not appear to be very active on WP these days. Factotem ( talk) 10:48, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Just a ping. - Dank ( push to talk) 23:12, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
Also see WT:ERRORS#Unwatching (but still here). (Bottom line: I won't be writing the blurbs whenever someone else beats me to it, and I'm unwatching WP:ERRORS). - Dank ( push to talk) 21:54, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Okay, no objections to doing blurb reviews for the remaining articles promoted in January ... I think it's worth making the invitations, in part because it's hard to remember January 21 as a start date for blurb reviews ... better to make it January 1, retroactively. So: take your time, guys, these haven't been scheduled at TFA yet, and please feel free to comment or edit:
Pinging the noms: Gog the Mild, Hawkeye7, Kees08, Serial Number 54129, Casliber and Amakuru. I can ping the supporters, but that's probably not necessary.
Also promoted in January: Teresa Sampsonia, Æthelberht, King of Wessex and Irritator. These three will run at TFA in late April; see Wikipedia:Today's featured article/April 2019. Please feel free to edit the blurbs or add comments to their talk pages. - Dank ( push to talk) 22:11, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
Oh ... and keep an eye out for Pyramid of Unas, also promoted in January ... I'm told it will run in early May. - Dank ( push to talk) 22:21, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
The external link checker, which appears in the toolbox on each FAC nomination, is currently returning me a 404 messsage saying that the page doesn't exist. Are others getting the same message? Brianboulton ( talk) 19:11, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
@
FAC coordinators:
Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Cretoxyrhina/archive2 has not been transcluded on the nomination page. I should automate this.
Hawkeye7
(discuss)
00:07, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
I've been out of the loop for a while, and I seem to have lost my JSTOR access – previews are all I'm getting. I wonder if this is general, or whether I've missed something somewhere. Can anyone enlighten? Brianboulton ( talk) 16:20, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
There's a disturbing trend in just the last few years: the rise of machine-written, semi-literate journalism, and it's just now starting to cause massive headaches. There's absolutely no shame (or shouldn't be, anyway) in repeating language in Wikipedia articles that you see or hear elsewhere, and it's not on you guys to fix this problem ... the blame is firmly on the idiots who are trying to save a few bucks with a "no humans in the loop" approach to writing. I'm trying to learn what I can about the problem.
"American former astronaut" is in the class of problematic phrases that have just started to appear. Most of you probably learned in school that in the phrase "some American astronauts", "some" is an adjective, but over the last 20 years linguists have reached a consensus that that's either wrong or it's not the whole story ... "some" doesn't obey the usual rules for adjectives at all, so it's now considered to be a new part of speech called a determiner. Determiners almost never follow adjectives, which is why all of these sound horribly wrong: "the American four astronauts were selected", "American some astronauts landed on the moon", "one of the American later astronauts", etc. "Former" isn't a black-and-white case ... it might not be a determiner, but it's so similar to other words that are determiners that "American former astronaut" sounds as wrong as "American four astronauts" to many listeners. Could we ban this phrase in Featured Articles, please? - Dank ( push to talk) 16:04, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
the idiots who are trying to save a few bucks with a "no humans in the loop" approach to writing, you'll probably want to avert your gaze from the WMF's vision of our Wikidata-powered future. ‑ Iridescent 17:07, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
Here are the FAC reviewing statistics for March. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 20:56, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
Reviewers for March 2019
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Supports and opposes for March 2019
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I have just shy of ten years of data now, and when I noticed there is only a single oppose in the tables above, I thought it might be interesting to look at oppose frequency. Not counting image and source reviews, the most frequent opposer by far over the last ten years is Nikkimaria, who has opposed 172 times in 397 reviews -- that's 43% of her content reviews. I think this is because Nikki has long been one of the reviewers who are willing to quickly point out that a new FAC is really not ready and should be withdrawn; Nick-D and Brianboulton, among others, have also often quickly opposed substandard nominations.
Here are the top ten in total opposes (content, not image/source reviews) in the last ten years:
Editor | Opposes | Reviews | % oppose |
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Nikkimaria | 172 | 397 | 43% |
Laser brain | 95 | 268 | 35% |
Graham Beards | 92 | 342 | 27% |
Brianboulton | 79 | 752 | 11% |
Tony1 | 71 | 462 | 15% |
Eric Corbett | 70 | 270 | 26% |
Nick-D | 54 | 271 | 20% |
Giants2008 | 52 | 581 | 9% |
Dank | 46 | 952 | 5% |
Indopug | 43 | 207 | 21% |
In terms of percentages, and assuming at least fifty reviews, the only other reviewers who have opposed at least 25% of the time are Squeamish Ossifrage 37/97 - 38%, and Karanacs 27/94 - 29%. Note that none of these numbers include struck opposes.
My own numbers are 30/280 (11%), in case you're curious; I can post the numbers for anyone else who wants to know, though I should repeat that this is only from May 2009 onwards, which is probably less than half the total FAC reviewing data. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 21:46, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
'''Oppose'''
unless the FAC was a clear non-starter, but I'd regularly write a long list of problems that needed addressing. To my mind, "oppose" can be off-putting, especially to newcomers to the process, whereas "here's a list of problems, it's up to you whether you fix them or withdraw this nomination" has the same effect but allows the nominator to withdraw with dignity and not end up feeling as if they've been flamed off. ‑
Iridescent
13:19, 14 April 2019 (UTC)Anyone who pings me to review FACs can expect to be shouted at, after the abuse, the threats, the belittling I received here. Tony (talk) 14:03, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
Hi all,
I saw a thread here recently about a shortage of reviewers. I do some work through various programs/events training or otherwise encouraging subject-matter experts to learn to contribute to Wikipedia. Sometimes it's through a weeks-long process, sometimes through edit-a-thons, and sometimes just an informal conversation, etc. As we all know, for better or worse, and for a range of reasons, writing articles on Wikipedia just isn't a good fit for some people. An open question is then in what ways they could contribute to Wikipedia apart from writing? Reviewing articles is a common suggestion, and there have been a number of projects/experiments involving just that, with mixed results. Sometimes they've been quite helpful, leading to article improvements, sometimes it's well-meaning but nobody actually does anything with the review, and sometimes the reviews miss the mark, maybe because of a misunderstanding of fundamental Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Let's assume that for the sake of my question below, that this last scenario won't be an issue, and that people will have a reasonable sense of the fundamentals (NPOV, RS, V, NOR, etc.).
Here's my question: Is there a place at FAC for people who aren't experienced editors but have subject-matter expertise and want to help?
Obviously they won't be able to help with comments about things like MOS, but they may have a good sense of the body of literature, sources available, weight, prose quality in general, etc. At this point I'm just asking to see if it's a possibility worth looking into more. Of course, if the FAC community doesn't think it would be useful, I wouldn't want to pursue it. Thanks. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 17:06, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
I would prefer to withdraw my FAC Setirostris eleryi, for which a review has started, but do not see a procedure to do that. Not something I need to know, so if someone could assist or make it happen I would appreciate the help. Cheers, cygnis insignis 11:14, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
Here are the FAC reviewing statistics for April. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 17:13, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Reviewers for April 2019
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Supports and opposes for April 2019
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Just out of curiosity, but are there ever any "support[s] converting to oppose"? —— SerialNumber 54129 17:38, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
I'll be taking a couple of weeks off, several times over the next several months, while I work on linguistics projects. (That's all I want to say about it right now ... I just wanted you to know I'm not goofing off.) Occasionally, I won't be posting a TFA blurb until a couple of weeks after a FAC is promoted. (But I'll do some blurbs early, so there won't usually be much of a wait.) I hope people will keep the FAC nom page watchlisted after promotion, so you'll be able to see when the blurb shows up, and leave comments. If you have experience with what's expected in Main Page blurbs, feel free to write your own ... but I'm happy to write them if you don't mind waiting. - Dank ( push to talk) 14:46, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
As the instructions strongly suggests a mentor for first time nominators (which I am), I'm posting here to see if anyone would be willing to mentor me as I put up The Hate U Give for consideration. I have a handful of GAs and one FL to my credit so hopefully I would be a good mentee. Thanks for any consideration and Best, Barkeep49 ( talk) 02:50, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
..For the impending second FAC of the " All About That Bass" article. I have started a peer review page so that improvements can be made without worrying about premature archival. But I need someone who has experience with writing featured song articles to help me simplify some parts. Which was a major criticism from the first FA attempt. Thanks.-- N Ø 19:30, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
Here are the FAC reviewing statistics for May. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 15:07, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
Reviewers for May 2019
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So, while looking at some FACs I've submitted I got a thought.
Would it be proper to post notifications of a FAC on the talk page of the pertinent WikiProjects or is that improper canvassing? Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk, contributions) 17:20, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
Hi all,
I recently nominated my first FA at WP:Featured article candidates/2018 World Snooker Championship/archive1, which was archived 22 May 2019. I understand that the proceedure is to wait two weeks from this before nominating any articles.
I do plan to renominate the article, as I have done some work on the article to meet WP:MOSFLAG (Namely change instances of each nationality to {{ flagathlete}} over {{ flagicon}} as per the candidate talk. Two weeks is a little vague regarding times. When would be the ideal time to re-submit? Two weeks from closure would presumably be 5th June, however the last actual comment on the nomination was 11 days ago.
Having never done an FAC before, I'm a little worried about resubmitting to early, or otherwise failing etiquette. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 10:28, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
Over the last few years, the WikiJournal User Group has been building and testing a set of peer reviewed academic journals on a mediawiki platform. The main types of articles are:
Proposal: WikiJournals as a new sister project
From an FA/GA/PR point of view, this is a complementary system to provide review of existing content by external experts, implementing established scholarly practices, and generating citable, doi-linked publications. It also acts as a route for high-quality new articles from people who would not have otherwise contributed to a wikimedia project.
Please take a look and support/oppose/comment! T.Shafee(Evo&Evo) talk 11:24, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
citable, doi-linked publicationsyou mention were unanimously rejected as being considered reliable sources even by Wikipedia's relatively low standards.) I'm neutral as to whether this continues to be hosted at Wikiversity or as a separate project, as I don't feel it's a project the WMF should be hosting at all; the whole concept of "private pages" and separate logons is completely against our values. ‑ Iridescent 14:41, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
After peer reviewer comments are addressed, the journal article is integrated into Wikipedia so that it is not a particularly forked version. It is treated as an approved version in the same way that there is an approved version of Featured articles. The Wikipedia page continues to evolve after the journal-organised peer review just as any GAs and FAs do. The public facing version in Wikipedia should 100% be the most recent and up to date version. The stable version of record can be used for citation. Their own mission statement is [WikiJournal's] function is to put articles through academic peer review for dual-publication as a stable, citable version in the journal, and as living documents in Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects, and I see no way to read that other than "WikiJournal's external peer review process is used to amend the article, and the result is used to overwrite the existing Wikipedia article with their version somehow flagged as the 'approved' version in the event of subsequent edits". ‑ Iridescent 22:31, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
anyone may edit pages, even published ones, but substantial edits to the main text of such articles would be reverted( direct quote). ‑ Iridescent 07:36, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
I can't get my nomination Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/United Airlines Flight 175/archiveNumber in properly. Could someone help? Tigerdude9 ( talk) 18:58, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
Hi, can someone please close this nomination as I haven't figured out how to do so? Thanks. Nehme1499 ( talk) 23:46, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
Hi FAC,
Long-time listener, first-time caller here. There are a couple articles I'd like to explore bringing to FAC and wonder if someone would be interested/available to help as mentor.
The first is Rhode Island banking crisis, when embezzlement triggered the collapse of a private state insurer and a third of the state's population lost access to their bank accounts (for days, weeks, months, or in some cases more than a year). Protests, questions about organized crime and corruption, long manhunt, etc. (I'm trying to sell it a little because on the surface it sounds like a dry topic, I know). It's a GA now. I sent it to PR but it was archived without a review.
The second is Rossa Matilda Richter, who became the first human cannonball at the age of 14. It's sat in the GAN queue since last August, and is currently under review, but I feel like it's a strong contender for FAC. Working on this article was the first time I felt like I should take something to FAC as I realized, in the process of doing an exhaustive search for sources, that our article seems to be the best overall source about her now.
I don't know enough about the FAC mentoring processes to know how much the topic itself matters, but figured I'd detail what my plans are just in case. Anyone interested? :) — Rhododendrites talk \\ 20:40, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
Just a ping. - Dank ( push to talk) 14:25, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
Here are the FAC reviewing statistics for June. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 09:36, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Reviewers for June 2019
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Supports and opposes for June 2019
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I have added a proposal on WP:VPR to add accessibility as a requirement for attaining FA and GA status. Please take a look and give your input. Thank you.-- Megaman en m ( talk) 09:07, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
Noting here that there are currently three FACes in the "FACs needing feedback" box, Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1969 Curaçao uprising/archive1 which began on the 25th of April, my own Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Payún Matrú/archive1 which began on the 13th of May and Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sega/archive1 which began on the 24th of May. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk, contributions) 14:12, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
And that's two of three promoted. Red Phoenix talk 13:59, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
A source review for the article would be very helpful. The link for the article's FAC is right here. Thank you. — Ssven2 Looking at you, kid 09:33, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
Is this a good way to invite more editors to post comments at the FAC page? Additionally, am I allowed to strike out another user's comments if they have been addressed but the user is not there to strike them out himself? -- Kailash29792 (talk) 06:59, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
Title | Alt txt size |
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Spanish conquest of Guatemala | 1560 |
Chaco Culture National Historical Park | 1259 |
Postman's Park | 1131 |
Capture of Fort Ticonderoga | 1118 |
Distributed element filter | 1030 |
Fort Ticonderoga | 937 |
Fort Ticonderoga | 886 |
Geography and ecology of the Everglades | 855 |
Douglas MacArthur | 829 |
Inner German border | 807 |
Midshipman | 793 |
Knight Lore | 784 |
Little Butte Creek | 775 |
Chaco Culture National Historical Park | 761 |
Vannevar Bush | 758 |
Bristol | 746 |
Pig-faced women | 742 |
Powderfinger | 740 |
Spanish conquest of Guatemala | 725 |
Blast Corps | 714 |
Little Miss Sunshine | 713 |
Hemmema | 711 |
Little Miss Sunshine | 710 |
Knight Lore | 708 |
Chaco Culture National Historical Park | 707 |
1955 MacArthur Airport United Airlines crash | 697 |
The Kinks | 685 |
Cologne War | 677 |
A Contract with God | 672 |
Wordless novel | 672 |
Southern Cross (wordless novel) | 672 |
Thoughts on the Education of Daughters | 669 |
Wish You Were Here (Pink Floyd album) | 665 |
Herne Hill railway station | 663 |
American Beauty (1999 film) | 661 |
Midshipman | 660 |
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time | 658 |
Congregation Beth Elohim | 654 |
Fez (video game) | 653 |
Some Thoughts Concerning Education | 652 |
Big Butte Creek | 648 |
Gianni Schicchi | 642 |
Big Butte Creek | 640 |
Spanish conquest of Guatemala | 637 |
Battle of Bardia | 632 |
Geology of the Lassen volcanic area | 631 |
American Beauty (1999 film) | 630 |
Fort Ticonderoga | 626 |
Olivier Messiaen | 619 |
Cock Lane ghost | 619 |
Colley Cibber | 619 |
Brill Tramway | 617 |
Byzantine civil war of 1341–1347 | 612 |
The Smashing Pumpkins | 612 |
Chaco Culture National Historical Park | 610 |
Wii Sports | 608 |
Quark | 608 |
Funerary art | 605 |
The Kinks | 602 |
Maria: or, The Wrongs of Woman | 597 |
Spanish conquest of Petén | 595 |
Looks like, in these cases, large alt text is attributed either to describing maps or writing alt text as if it was longdesc (which is how I used to erroneously do it). I will try to poke through the table and at least work on the obvious issues. When I want a second opinion I usually post on WP:ALT, like I did at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility/Alternative_text_for_images#Alt_text_for_album_artwork. Kees08 (Talk) 17:25, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
G'day all, I have a query about the one-at-a-time rule. I now have about twenty articles ready for FAC and they generally take about six weeks to move through the system. I also review virtually every Milhist article that comes to FAC, and mostly work in an area where collaboration is not easy to line up. I am wondering if there has ever been an arrangement in the past where a single editor has been able to nominate two articles at a time? What would be the implications of loosening up the one-at-a-time rule, say to a maximum of two articles at a time, whether they are single nom or collaborations? Peacemaker67 ( click to talk to me) 08:42, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
editors that work in less mainstream areasrefers to? —— SerialNumber 54129 11:01, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
they generally take about six weeks to move through the system" As an editor whose first 12 FA nominations have, thanks to the generosity of other editors, just gone through in under 35 weeks (less than 3 weeks apiece) that seems an inordinately lengthy average. I have no real suggestions, although I find myself in agreement with SchroCat. However, I for one, as a reviewer who tries to look at 9 or 10 FACs a month, would be happy to preferentially review your nominations. (I am sure that you can think of a couple of my reviews of your noms which suggest that you would by no means get a 'wave through'.) If you were to ping me each time you nominate a FAC I would see what I could do to get that six weeks down. It is possible that there are other frequent reviewers who may be similarly inclined. I would also be happy to preferentially look at the nominations of other frequent reviewers - not, I hope that it goes without saying, just those who commit their time to pointing out the infelicities in my nominations. I realise that this doesn't really address your issue, but it may go some way towards ameliorating his particular problem. Gog the Mild ( talk) 12:12, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
Thanks Mike, and if 30 promotions a month would be a good yardstick then that would be a step in the right direction, but I still don't get that you can have two if you co-nom one of them but not two if you are a single nom. To me, the current arrangement makes it much easier for those that work in areas where there are multiple productive people working (and therefore areas already well represented on WP), and disadvantages those that work solo because there just aren't people to co-nom with in the less well-covered areas they work in. Peacemaker67 ( click to talk to me) 11:15, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
If it's just permission for a second FAC that's being sought, then would it be acceptable to permit an 'honorary' co-nom? This could be someone who has not themselves edited the article significantly but has been involved in prior reviews of the article (at PR, GA or ACR), and who would be willing to attach their name to the nom but not be expected to be otherwise involved. This would piggyback onto currently accepted practice concerning multiple noms. The only issue I can see with this is ensuring that only editors who work in areas for which genuine co-noms are hard to find, as pointed out by PM, or who reciprocate by taking on more of the reviewing load, are allowed to take advantage of such a minor(?) relaxation of the current rule, so that it does not become general practice. Factotem ( talk) 11:37, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
Here are the FAC reviewing statistics for July. I'll be out of the country for the first part of September, so the August statistics will probably be delayed till mid or late September. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 11:12, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
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Supports and opposes for July 2019
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I dunno whether coordinators deal with problem behaviours in FACses but if so Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Deep Space Homer/archive3 needs some go over I think. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk, contributions) 17:42, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should " alt-text" be a requirement for all FAs? At present (per MOS:ACCIM and as expanded upon in MOS:ALT), it is part of our MoS and advised for WP:ACCESS reasons for those who are using a screen reader due to a visual impairment. Currently, its implementation at FAC is not universal: should we make it a requirement, possibly to be checked as part of an image review? - SchroCat ( talk) 19:39, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
Example
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alt=""
to avoid redundancy. We were told years ago that alt=photograph
or alt=map
were fine. Given the confusion, I think we should not require it.
SarahSV
(talk)
01:50, 15 February 2019 (UTC)I get the feeling the discussion has an odd emphasis on the “This is too hard, we can't do it” angle, rather than “This is how and to what degree we are practically able to do it” (on which latter point reasonable editors may disagree). The question really shouldn't be whether to require accessibility in the FA criteria, it should be which specific measures should be required, to what degree, and what tools do editors need (e.g. shared alt text on image page) in order to comply.SarahSV's argument is a valid one (I agree with her assessment of the status quo), but I also think, as an argument, it has a flaw: the reason we have widespread confusion and lack of expertise in this area is because we as a project have done too little to work on it (requiring it at FAC or GAN being two potential tools in the relevant toolchest). All such efforts require periods of confusion, disagreements, failures, discussions, wrong paths taken, corrections, and so forth. What the extensive archive at Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Alt text tells us is that starting by "making alt text required at FAC" is probably not a good idea today any more than it was a decade ago. However, I would argue that having alt text (and some surrounding issues) and accessibility a requirement at FAC is a desireable end state once certain prerequisites are in place. And the world and Wikipedia has changed since 2009: while the effort might land in the same place (or it might not), it probably wouldn't play out in the same way (for better or worse).What I would like to see discussed, with subsequent RfCs as appropriate, is what are the slow baby steps along the path that will eventually land at that desired end state? Is tooling a prerequisite perhaps? The WMF is working on structured data for Commons, and starting with captions for images. Maybe we should request they work on support for structured alternative text on Commons so that it can be shared between articles and projects? And reviewing for accessibility (alternative text being just one aspect of that) takes not just process but reviewers. Do we actually have anyone willing to take the lead on that, vaguely similar to how image reviews and source checks are handled today? If someone was willing to be the go-to person for accessibility reviews, and carrying the load for a good long while, we might be able to make it work; otherwise it probably won't.Nothing prevents reviewers who care about the issue from mentioning it in FA reviews now even if the criteria do not require it. That might be a good way to start. Perhaps there is some way we could mention accessibility in the criteria without making it a requirement to remind all concerned that it is an issue and encouraging them to go the extra mile? Some people mention MOS:LISTGAP as an aside in discussion threads when applicable, and similar type of gentle encouragement might move the needle at FAC too.Bottom line is that starting by adding alternative text as a criteria at FAC is unlikely to work; but I'd love to see effort put into more manageable and more likely to succeed first steps towards that. It's been a decade already (it's been a decade already?!?): let's think in terms of what can be achieved if we keep chipping away at it for the next decade! -- Xover ( talk) 08:07, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
|alt=painting
.
Wugapodes
[thɑk]
[ˈkan.ˌʧɹɪbz]
20:50, 11 March 2019 (UTC)On the FAC page
What's the consensus on ISBN formats for FAC? I've seen inconsistent use of ISBN-10 and ISBN-13, and even inconsistent hyphenation, attract comments in source reviews, which I then parrot in mine. Is this something we should be looking for in source reviews, or can we let it slide? Factotem ( talk) 22:47, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
Curious to hear from the @ FAC coordinators: what the 'official' line is. Would a candidate be 'marked down' if a nom refuses to address this issue after it has been raised by a reviewer? Factotem ( talk) 09:23, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks everyone for the clarification. All makes sense. Follow-up question: are there any on-wiki talk pages for the citation tools mentioned, specifically ones that relate to GBooks links? When reviewing articles that provide both GBooks links and ISBN numbers in the bibliography, I often find the two are mismatched; GBooks links to one edition, while the ISBN relates to a different edition (a problem compounded by the fact that GBooks often lists the details for one edition on the "about" page, but offers a preview for a different edition). This becomes a problem when the two editions have different paginations. If there's a tool that automates the generation of the bibliography, then maybe it needs tweaking. Factotem ( talk) 09:03, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
My question was not about whether or not GBook links are a good idea, but about the accuracy of citation tools used to generate bibliography sections. The problem came up in the Marchioness disaster FAC with https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=59XvXKbyvZIC. Plugging that URL into http://reftag.appspot.com/ gives:
but the GBooks preview is actually:
I've notified the app owner, but they do not appear to be very active on WP these days. Factotem ( talk) 10:48, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Just a ping. - Dank ( push to talk) 23:12, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
Also see WT:ERRORS#Unwatching (but still here). (Bottom line: I won't be writing the blurbs whenever someone else beats me to it, and I'm unwatching WP:ERRORS). - Dank ( push to talk) 21:54, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Okay, no objections to doing blurb reviews for the remaining articles promoted in January ... I think it's worth making the invitations, in part because it's hard to remember January 21 as a start date for blurb reviews ... better to make it January 1, retroactively. So: take your time, guys, these haven't been scheduled at TFA yet, and please feel free to comment or edit:
Pinging the noms: Gog the Mild, Hawkeye7, Kees08, Serial Number 54129, Casliber and Amakuru. I can ping the supporters, but that's probably not necessary.
Also promoted in January: Teresa Sampsonia, Æthelberht, King of Wessex and Irritator. These three will run at TFA in late April; see Wikipedia:Today's featured article/April 2019. Please feel free to edit the blurbs or add comments to their talk pages. - Dank ( push to talk) 22:11, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
Oh ... and keep an eye out for Pyramid of Unas, also promoted in January ... I'm told it will run in early May. - Dank ( push to talk) 22:21, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
The external link checker, which appears in the toolbox on each FAC nomination, is currently returning me a 404 messsage saying that the page doesn't exist. Are others getting the same message? Brianboulton ( talk) 19:11, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
@
FAC coordinators:
Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Cretoxyrhina/archive2 has not been transcluded on the nomination page. I should automate this.
Hawkeye7
(discuss)
00:07, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
I've been out of the loop for a while, and I seem to have lost my JSTOR access – previews are all I'm getting. I wonder if this is general, or whether I've missed something somewhere. Can anyone enlighten? Brianboulton ( talk) 16:20, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
There's a disturbing trend in just the last few years: the rise of machine-written, semi-literate journalism, and it's just now starting to cause massive headaches. There's absolutely no shame (or shouldn't be, anyway) in repeating language in Wikipedia articles that you see or hear elsewhere, and it's not on you guys to fix this problem ... the blame is firmly on the idiots who are trying to save a few bucks with a "no humans in the loop" approach to writing. I'm trying to learn what I can about the problem.
"American former astronaut" is in the class of problematic phrases that have just started to appear. Most of you probably learned in school that in the phrase "some American astronauts", "some" is an adjective, but over the last 20 years linguists have reached a consensus that that's either wrong or it's not the whole story ... "some" doesn't obey the usual rules for adjectives at all, so it's now considered to be a new part of speech called a determiner. Determiners almost never follow adjectives, which is why all of these sound horribly wrong: "the American four astronauts were selected", "American some astronauts landed on the moon", "one of the American later astronauts", etc. "Former" isn't a black-and-white case ... it might not be a determiner, but it's so similar to other words that are determiners that "American former astronaut" sounds as wrong as "American four astronauts" to many listeners. Could we ban this phrase in Featured Articles, please? - Dank ( push to talk) 16:04, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
the idiots who are trying to save a few bucks with a "no humans in the loop" approach to writing, you'll probably want to avert your gaze from the WMF's vision of our Wikidata-powered future. ‑ Iridescent 17:07, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
Here are the FAC reviewing statistics for March. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 20:56, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
Reviewers for March 2019
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Supports and opposes for March 2019
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I have just shy of ten years of data now, and when I noticed there is only a single oppose in the tables above, I thought it might be interesting to look at oppose frequency. Not counting image and source reviews, the most frequent opposer by far over the last ten years is Nikkimaria, who has opposed 172 times in 397 reviews -- that's 43% of her content reviews. I think this is because Nikki has long been one of the reviewers who are willing to quickly point out that a new FAC is really not ready and should be withdrawn; Nick-D and Brianboulton, among others, have also often quickly opposed substandard nominations.
Here are the top ten in total opposes (content, not image/source reviews) in the last ten years:
Editor | Opposes | Reviews | % oppose |
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Nikkimaria | 172 | 397 | 43% |
Laser brain | 95 | 268 | 35% |
Graham Beards | 92 | 342 | 27% |
Brianboulton | 79 | 752 | 11% |
Tony1 | 71 | 462 | 15% |
Eric Corbett | 70 | 270 | 26% |
Nick-D | 54 | 271 | 20% |
Giants2008 | 52 | 581 | 9% |
Dank | 46 | 952 | 5% |
Indopug | 43 | 207 | 21% |
In terms of percentages, and assuming at least fifty reviews, the only other reviewers who have opposed at least 25% of the time are Squeamish Ossifrage 37/97 - 38%, and Karanacs 27/94 - 29%. Note that none of these numbers include struck opposes.
My own numbers are 30/280 (11%), in case you're curious; I can post the numbers for anyone else who wants to know, though I should repeat that this is only from May 2009 onwards, which is probably less than half the total FAC reviewing data. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 21:46, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
'''Oppose'''
unless the FAC was a clear non-starter, but I'd regularly write a long list of problems that needed addressing. To my mind, "oppose" can be off-putting, especially to newcomers to the process, whereas "here's a list of problems, it's up to you whether you fix them or withdraw this nomination" has the same effect but allows the nominator to withdraw with dignity and not end up feeling as if they've been flamed off. ‑
Iridescent
13:19, 14 April 2019 (UTC)Anyone who pings me to review FACs can expect to be shouted at, after the abuse, the threats, the belittling I received here. Tony (talk) 14:03, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
Hi all,
I saw a thread here recently about a shortage of reviewers. I do some work through various programs/events training or otherwise encouraging subject-matter experts to learn to contribute to Wikipedia. Sometimes it's through a weeks-long process, sometimes through edit-a-thons, and sometimes just an informal conversation, etc. As we all know, for better or worse, and for a range of reasons, writing articles on Wikipedia just isn't a good fit for some people. An open question is then in what ways they could contribute to Wikipedia apart from writing? Reviewing articles is a common suggestion, and there have been a number of projects/experiments involving just that, with mixed results. Sometimes they've been quite helpful, leading to article improvements, sometimes it's well-meaning but nobody actually does anything with the review, and sometimes the reviews miss the mark, maybe because of a misunderstanding of fundamental Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Let's assume that for the sake of my question below, that this last scenario won't be an issue, and that people will have a reasonable sense of the fundamentals (NPOV, RS, V, NOR, etc.).
Here's my question: Is there a place at FAC for people who aren't experienced editors but have subject-matter expertise and want to help?
Obviously they won't be able to help with comments about things like MOS, but they may have a good sense of the body of literature, sources available, weight, prose quality in general, etc. At this point I'm just asking to see if it's a possibility worth looking into more. Of course, if the FAC community doesn't think it would be useful, I wouldn't want to pursue it. Thanks. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 17:06, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
I would prefer to withdraw my FAC Setirostris eleryi, for which a review has started, but do not see a procedure to do that. Not something I need to know, so if someone could assist or make it happen I would appreciate the help. Cheers, cygnis insignis 11:14, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
Here are the FAC reviewing statistics for April. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 17:13, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Reviewers for April 2019
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Supports and opposes for April 2019
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Just out of curiosity, but are there ever any "support[s] converting to oppose"? —— SerialNumber 54129 17:38, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
I'll be taking a couple of weeks off, several times over the next several months, while I work on linguistics projects. (That's all I want to say about it right now ... I just wanted you to know I'm not goofing off.) Occasionally, I won't be posting a TFA blurb until a couple of weeks after a FAC is promoted. (But I'll do some blurbs early, so there won't usually be much of a wait.) I hope people will keep the FAC nom page watchlisted after promotion, so you'll be able to see when the blurb shows up, and leave comments. If you have experience with what's expected in Main Page blurbs, feel free to write your own ... but I'm happy to write them if you don't mind waiting. - Dank ( push to talk) 14:46, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
As the instructions strongly suggests a mentor for first time nominators (which I am), I'm posting here to see if anyone would be willing to mentor me as I put up The Hate U Give for consideration. I have a handful of GAs and one FL to my credit so hopefully I would be a good mentee. Thanks for any consideration and Best, Barkeep49 ( talk) 02:50, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
..For the impending second FAC of the " All About That Bass" article. I have started a peer review page so that improvements can be made without worrying about premature archival. But I need someone who has experience with writing featured song articles to help me simplify some parts. Which was a major criticism from the first FA attempt. Thanks.-- N Ø 19:30, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
Here are the FAC reviewing statistics for May. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 15:07, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
Reviewers for May 2019
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Supports and opposes for May 2019
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So, while looking at some FACs I've submitted I got a thought.
Would it be proper to post notifications of a FAC on the talk page of the pertinent WikiProjects or is that improper canvassing? Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk, contributions) 17:20, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
Hi all,
I recently nominated my first FA at WP:Featured article candidates/2018 World Snooker Championship/archive1, which was archived 22 May 2019. I understand that the proceedure is to wait two weeks from this before nominating any articles.
I do plan to renominate the article, as I have done some work on the article to meet WP:MOSFLAG (Namely change instances of each nationality to {{ flagathlete}} over {{ flagicon}} as per the candidate talk. Two weeks is a little vague regarding times. When would be the ideal time to re-submit? Two weeks from closure would presumably be 5th June, however the last actual comment on the nomination was 11 days ago.
Having never done an FAC before, I'm a little worried about resubmitting to early, or otherwise failing etiquette. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 10:28, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
Over the last few years, the WikiJournal User Group has been building and testing a set of peer reviewed academic journals on a mediawiki platform. The main types of articles are:
Proposal: WikiJournals as a new sister project
From an FA/GA/PR point of view, this is a complementary system to provide review of existing content by external experts, implementing established scholarly practices, and generating citable, doi-linked publications. It also acts as a route for high-quality new articles from people who would not have otherwise contributed to a wikimedia project.
Please take a look and support/oppose/comment! T.Shafee(Evo&Evo) talk 11:24, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
citable, doi-linked publicationsyou mention were unanimously rejected as being considered reliable sources even by Wikipedia's relatively low standards.) I'm neutral as to whether this continues to be hosted at Wikiversity or as a separate project, as I don't feel it's a project the WMF should be hosting at all; the whole concept of "private pages" and separate logons is completely against our values. ‑ Iridescent 14:41, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
After peer reviewer comments are addressed, the journal article is integrated into Wikipedia so that it is not a particularly forked version. It is treated as an approved version in the same way that there is an approved version of Featured articles. The Wikipedia page continues to evolve after the journal-organised peer review just as any GAs and FAs do. The public facing version in Wikipedia should 100% be the most recent and up to date version. The stable version of record can be used for citation. Their own mission statement is [WikiJournal's] function is to put articles through academic peer review for dual-publication as a stable, citable version in the journal, and as living documents in Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects, and I see no way to read that other than "WikiJournal's external peer review process is used to amend the article, and the result is used to overwrite the existing Wikipedia article with their version somehow flagged as the 'approved' version in the event of subsequent edits". ‑ Iridescent 22:31, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
anyone may edit pages, even published ones, but substantial edits to the main text of such articles would be reverted( direct quote). ‑ Iridescent 07:36, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
I can't get my nomination Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/United Airlines Flight 175/archiveNumber in properly. Could someone help? Tigerdude9 ( talk) 18:58, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
Hi, can someone please close this nomination as I haven't figured out how to do so? Thanks. Nehme1499 ( talk) 23:46, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
Hi FAC,
Long-time listener, first-time caller here. There are a couple articles I'd like to explore bringing to FAC and wonder if someone would be interested/available to help as mentor.
The first is Rhode Island banking crisis, when embezzlement triggered the collapse of a private state insurer and a third of the state's population lost access to their bank accounts (for days, weeks, months, or in some cases more than a year). Protests, questions about organized crime and corruption, long manhunt, etc. (I'm trying to sell it a little because on the surface it sounds like a dry topic, I know). It's a GA now. I sent it to PR but it was archived without a review.
The second is Rossa Matilda Richter, who became the first human cannonball at the age of 14. It's sat in the GAN queue since last August, and is currently under review, but I feel like it's a strong contender for FAC. Working on this article was the first time I felt like I should take something to FAC as I realized, in the process of doing an exhaustive search for sources, that our article seems to be the best overall source about her now.
I don't know enough about the FAC mentoring processes to know how much the topic itself matters, but figured I'd detail what my plans are just in case. Anyone interested? :) — Rhododendrites talk \\ 20:40, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
Just a ping. - Dank ( push to talk) 14:25, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
Here are the FAC reviewing statistics for June. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 09:36, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Reviewers for June 2019
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Supports and opposes for June 2019
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I have added a proposal on WP:VPR to add accessibility as a requirement for attaining FA and GA status. Please take a look and give your input. Thank you.-- Megaman en m ( talk) 09:07, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
Noting here that there are currently three FACes in the "FACs needing feedback" box, Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1969 Curaçao uprising/archive1 which began on the 25th of April, my own Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Payún Matrú/archive1 which began on the 13th of May and Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sega/archive1 which began on the 24th of May. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk, contributions) 14:12, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
And that's two of three promoted. Red Phoenix talk 13:59, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
A source review for the article would be very helpful. The link for the article's FAC is right here. Thank you. — Ssven2 Looking at you, kid 09:33, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
Is this a good way to invite more editors to post comments at the FAC page? Additionally, am I allowed to strike out another user's comments if they have been addressed but the user is not there to strike them out himself? -- Kailash29792 (talk) 06:59, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
Title | Alt txt size |
---|---|
Spanish conquest of Guatemala | 1560 |
Chaco Culture National Historical Park | 1259 |
Postman's Park | 1131 |
Capture of Fort Ticonderoga | 1118 |
Distributed element filter | 1030 |
Fort Ticonderoga | 937 |
Fort Ticonderoga | 886 |
Geography and ecology of the Everglades | 855 |
Douglas MacArthur | 829 |
Inner German border | 807 |
Midshipman | 793 |
Knight Lore | 784 |
Little Butte Creek | 775 |
Chaco Culture National Historical Park | 761 |
Vannevar Bush | 758 |
Bristol | 746 |
Pig-faced women | 742 |
Powderfinger | 740 |
Spanish conquest of Guatemala | 725 |
Blast Corps | 714 |
Little Miss Sunshine | 713 |
Hemmema | 711 |
Little Miss Sunshine | 710 |
Knight Lore | 708 |
Chaco Culture National Historical Park | 707 |
1955 MacArthur Airport United Airlines crash | 697 |
The Kinks | 685 |
Cologne War | 677 |
A Contract with God | 672 |
Wordless novel | 672 |
Southern Cross (wordless novel) | 672 |
Thoughts on the Education of Daughters | 669 |
Wish You Were Here (Pink Floyd album) | 665 |
Herne Hill railway station | 663 |
American Beauty (1999 film) | 661 |
Midshipman | 660 |
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time | 658 |
Congregation Beth Elohim | 654 |
Fez (video game) | 653 |
Some Thoughts Concerning Education | 652 |
Big Butte Creek | 648 |
Gianni Schicchi | 642 |
Big Butte Creek | 640 |
Spanish conquest of Guatemala | 637 |
Battle of Bardia | 632 |
Geology of the Lassen volcanic area | 631 |
American Beauty (1999 film) | 630 |
Fort Ticonderoga | 626 |
Olivier Messiaen | 619 |
Cock Lane ghost | 619 |
Colley Cibber | 619 |
Brill Tramway | 617 |
Byzantine civil war of 1341–1347 | 612 |
The Smashing Pumpkins | 612 |
Chaco Culture National Historical Park | 610 |
Wii Sports | 608 |
Quark | 608 |
Funerary art | 605 |
The Kinks | 602 |
Maria: or, The Wrongs of Woman | 597 |
Spanish conquest of Petén | 595 |
Looks like, in these cases, large alt text is attributed either to describing maps or writing alt text as if it was longdesc (which is how I used to erroneously do it). I will try to poke through the table and at least work on the obvious issues. When I want a second opinion I usually post on WP:ALT, like I did at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility/Alternative_text_for_images#Alt_text_for_album_artwork. Kees08 (Talk) 17:25, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
G'day all, I have a query about the one-at-a-time rule. I now have about twenty articles ready for FAC and they generally take about six weeks to move through the system. I also review virtually every Milhist article that comes to FAC, and mostly work in an area where collaboration is not easy to line up. I am wondering if there has ever been an arrangement in the past where a single editor has been able to nominate two articles at a time? What would be the implications of loosening up the one-at-a-time rule, say to a maximum of two articles at a time, whether they are single nom or collaborations? Peacemaker67 ( click to talk to me) 08:42, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
editors that work in less mainstream areasrefers to? —— SerialNumber 54129 11:01, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
they generally take about six weeks to move through the system" As an editor whose first 12 FA nominations have, thanks to the generosity of other editors, just gone through in under 35 weeks (less than 3 weeks apiece) that seems an inordinately lengthy average. I have no real suggestions, although I find myself in agreement with SchroCat. However, I for one, as a reviewer who tries to look at 9 or 10 FACs a month, would be happy to preferentially review your nominations. (I am sure that you can think of a couple of my reviews of your noms which suggest that you would by no means get a 'wave through'.) If you were to ping me each time you nominate a FAC I would see what I could do to get that six weeks down. It is possible that there are other frequent reviewers who may be similarly inclined. I would also be happy to preferentially look at the nominations of other frequent reviewers - not, I hope that it goes without saying, just those who commit their time to pointing out the infelicities in my nominations. I realise that this doesn't really address your issue, but it may go some way towards ameliorating his particular problem. Gog the Mild ( talk) 12:12, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
Thanks Mike, and if 30 promotions a month would be a good yardstick then that would be a step in the right direction, but I still don't get that you can have two if you co-nom one of them but not two if you are a single nom. To me, the current arrangement makes it much easier for those that work in areas where there are multiple productive people working (and therefore areas already well represented on WP), and disadvantages those that work solo because there just aren't people to co-nom with in the less well-covered areas they work in. Peacemaker67 ( click to talk to me) 11:15, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
If it's just permission for a second FAC that's being sought, then would it be acceptable to permit an 'honorary' co-nom? This could be someone who has not themselves edited the article significantly but has been involved in prior reviews of the article (at PR, GA or ACR), and who would be willing to attach their name to the nom but not be expected to be otherwise involved. This would piggyback onto currently accepted practice concerning multiple noms. The only issue I can see with this is ensuring that only editors who work in areas for which genuine co-noms are hard to find, as pointed out by PM, or who reciprocate by taking on more of the reviewing load, are allowed to take advantage of such a minor(?) relaxation of the current rule, so that it does not become general practice. Factotem ( talk) 11:37, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
Here are the FAC reviewing statistics for July. I'll be out of the country for the first part of September, so the August statistics will probably be delayed till mid or late September. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 11:12, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
Reviewers for July 2019
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Supports and opposes for July 2019
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I dunno whether coordinators deal with problem behaviours in FACses but if so Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Deep Space Homer/archive3 needs some go over I think. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk, contributions) 17:42, 6 August 2019 (UTC)