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← ( Archive 7) | Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates (archive) | ( Archive 5) → |
I was wondering that if I am nominating an article, do I have the right to remove objections if the author does not respond to responses. For example, if a person objects, and I respond telling them I corrected their reasons for objection, but they never respond nor change their objection, or any other form of response, do I have the right to remove it, or change it to a comment or something like that? How long should I give it till I consider it a "dead comment"? I ask this simply because I feel it is unfair for a person to object but yet not to consider the responses (in the form of article corrections or a written response) to their objections.
Also, I was wondering when a candidate becomes an official Featured Article. How many supports:objections must it have? Thank you. -- Lan56 06:11, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)
What is the policy on relisting failed nominations? Tintin was rejected as it had two supports and one objection (which may have been redrawn, I believe the points were adressed), and I cannot find a relisting policy in the tlak archives. { Ανάριον } 07:52, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
There have been at least three relisted nominations of Featured Articles in the past few weeks are so. I myself was almost guility of this when I was going to nominate the Fermi Paradox article, but then realized it was already featured. Perhaps we should just start putting the {{featured}} template on the front of the page rather than on the talk page? Any other ideas?
Pete is exactly right - keep the metadata out of the articles. And if someone lists something that's already a featured article, delete the nom on sight. →Raul654 00:32, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)
Here is results from the vote on the article Sesame Street. Does the vote need to more definitive than this?
Supported: Ta bu shi da yu, Filiocht, Mpolo, Zanimum
Opposed: Jongarrettuk, Jeronimo
"Object at the moment": Mgm
Jongarrettuk kept harping on the industry standard term edutainment, despite its world-wide usage. I changed the wording for him, but right after, the nomination was archived.
I addressed all but one of Jeronimo's concerns, but he didn't bother to change his vote, or comment elsewise.
I addressed one of Mgm's two concerns; the other, merchandising, didn't need expanding on the main page, IMHO. -- user:zanimum
If we fail to get any further response, what happens? Can I even just relist Sesame now? -- user:zanimum
May I relist? --- user:zanimum
If you believe that all the objections are now met and that the quality of the article remains high enough to be a featured article, you don't need anyone's permission - I say go for it! As I'm sure you're aware, it's probably worth noting when you do renominate it that it was recently listed, add a link to the discussion we had then, and note that you believe all the matters objected to are now dealt with. If you don't, someone else will and may use more negative phrasing than you would. jguk 17:34, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Question to Raul: I noticed recently that some of the contributors have voted on their own article. E.g., Chris73 voted for his "own" article about Japanese toilets (nominated by someone else), while several collaborators on the Irish Geography article have also voted. Are their votes considered together with the non-contributing voters? Not that I mistrust these contributors (after all, they identified themselves as such), but these people are usually not too objective about their own article (I know I'm not). Just a question... Jeronimo 06:52, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Here are my thoughts on the subject (sorry for taking so long to reply, but I’ve been swamped lately). I believe true the arguments made against allowing people to vote on an article they have worked on (Because yes, there is obviously a tendency to think well of one's own work), but I also think that keeping all people who have worked on an article from voting on it would tend to bias the featured-article selection process away from the contributors best knowledgeable about a subject. I think the system I have been using up until now -- to ignore the vote of the nominator but count everyone else's -- tends to work best. Virtually all the nominations being made are self-nominations, and so discounting the nominator tends to counter self-promotion bias. On the other hand, letting others vote on the article ensures that we don’t risk the "factually accurate" criteria, which after all is the most important criteria of being a featured article.
Furthermore, this has the wonderful characteristic of being simple - we don't have to worry about defining what a significant contribution is, or whose votes count and whose doesn't, etc. Going down that path only leads to VFD and RFA like pages, which will happen to the FAC over my dead body. →Raul654 16:53, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)
I'm adding a nomination, but it doesn't show until I force the page to purge. What's up with that? - Ta bu shi da yu 11:37, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
This has been discussed before, but if:
then the edited section is saved in the wrong place (replacing and overwriting the section above). This leads to duplicate sections - one with the edit above one without the edit - and the overwritten section disappears. Deleting duplicate sections is easy enough, but the overwritten section is only apparent from the page history.
This is a significant problem on a high-traffic page like this. In the past week or so, I've replaced overwritten sections a number of times. Presumably it would be possible to avoid this if each FAC nominee went into its own subpage (say, /Shroud of Turin, /Congo Civil War) as on WP:VFD, WP:RFA and others - is there a reason it is not done here (other than historical accident)?
In the meantime:
Thanks. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:13, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
In writing up a Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums/Featured albums proposal|Featured albums proposal, I have discovered that, as I thought I remembered, Smile was once nominated for featured status, but I can't find any record of it. Am I missing something? What are the extant objections? Tuf-Kat 23:55, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)
A lot of the articles nominated here have some basic defects, which should really be there before becoming featured. Top defects include missing references and an insufficient lead section; also image problems occur frequently. Referring back to Peer Review usually doesn't work (it isn't moved, or the peer review is poor). Would it be an idea to make a "Nomination checklist", which lists these issues spefically ("What is a featured article could also be adapted")? We could then refer to this checklist when a nominated article has such problems, without having to explain the problems in detail once again. This should save space and effort, which can then be used to judge the actual content and accuracy of the article. I wouldn't want to make this a formal thing, but I think it would be useful for both nominators and voters. Jeronimo 11:41, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Some time back, when I nominated a bunch of my works on WP:FAC, they received a great deal of support. However, there was one objection which was never removed (this held up I Want To Hold Your Hand; even when I personally contacted the objector on his talk page after fixing the objection, it was not withdrawn, nor was any reason given for continued objection). The objection? That I made too liberal use of online references (for examples, see the relevant sections on Hey Jude and Something, both already featured articles). I think we should get some sort of consensus on this (I tried Cite sources, but nothing resulted).
I mean, if it's some site on Tripod with no bibliography or references, and practically unknown anyhow, that's okay, it's reasonable. But the sites where I got my material from do list their references, and both score extremely high on Google when searching for "the Beatles". This site is the second result for "the Beatles", just behind the official Beatles website. This site provides a bibliography. Clearly if the article's references are credible, they should be allowed to stand; referencing some teenybopper's Frontpage-designed Geocities site shouldn't, or at the very least, be questioned. I think this should be viewed as part of a slightly larger problem — if I'm not mistaken, policy dictates that no article can become featured unless all objections are resolved. However, what objections are actionable/reasonable? For example, take the nomination of A Tale of A Tub. Jeronimo's objection sticks out like a sore thumb. If my understanding of policy is correct, this holds the article back, despite the mass amount of support from others, many of whom have criticised the objection (much like what occurred with the nominations of A Day in the Life and The Long and Winding Road).
Quite often I find that some objections/comments are just so vague, I'm not sure how to take action. A good deal of the time, if asked to clarify, the user doesn't respond (at least in my experience). For example, Ambi said some of the chronology on Get Back is unclear. I wasn't sure what she was talking about, so I asked a few days ago, and I still haven't got a response.
Sorry if I've wasted everybody's time with my rambling; I think we need to alter the policy sometime soon, as as our community grows, more and more users will be frequenting FAC. As the old parable goes, we're not able to please everyone. Some objective standards clearly must be met, such as references and a lead section. But in some more subjective ones, I think if there's mass disagreement with the relevant objection (or just a clear consensus), we should be able to sidestep the objection in question. We already trust this policy with electing our sysops; why not with our featured articles? Comments? Brickbats? Suggestions of more useful things to do than rambling on a talk page? Johnleemk | Talk 13:04, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere/before, but is "too long" a valid objection to a Featured Article candidate? Is the 32k "limit" advisory or mandatory? John Vanbrugh is around 41k, but excellent; Blackadder is also 30-something k, but very good. Does it matter that they exceed the "limit"? -- ALoan (Talk) 16:15, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
... fell short of "feature", though it appeared that only one or two individuals had outstanding objections, vs. eight supporters. It has already started "going backwards" in quality, with people making bizarre changes, hideous misspellings, editing without context, not using wiki style, etc.. I plan to track it, make the last changes suggested, and reintroduce it after a suitable time. This is sad, as this article was much better than most of the stuff that slips through the process. Sfahey 22:13, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
As one of the former objectors to featured status for this article I am happy to say that my former concerns have been addressed and on that basis I would not object its renomination. -- Sf 10:42, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Why is the FAC page protected?? How long will it be protected? How about putting some information about it at the top of the page?--[[User:Bishonen| Bishonen (Talk)]] 21:57, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I removed this prematurely, since it was obvious not all concerns could be addressed during the candidacy. Moved discussion to Talk:Grade (education). Perhaps put it on peer review to get additional comments. — David Remahl 18:54, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
There are, and have in the recent past, been a number of scientific or other technical articles that have been FACs. I for one take the view that these articles are not suitable as featured articles unless they can be understood by a layman. And I have not been the only one taking that view.
However, I do acknowledge that there is merit in having technical articles suitable for those who have a reasonable understanding of the underlying subject matter. I am also conscious that one of the objections to Wikipedia is that it has no quality control on scientific articles. What about having a new category of articles called "featured technical articles" (or something similar) that covers high quality encyclopaedic articles suitable for the technician rather than the layman? jguk 22:50, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
In the ongoing vote on Skateboarding trick, several voters have objected giving the reason that the article is a list. Is it policy that lists are not eligible for featured status? Is there a reference for it? I already asked in the voting itself, but I guess this is a better place, and more likely to be noticed. Could somebody please point me to a policy page, or similar? I rather like the article. It's a list, indeed, but it does have a Lead section, so displaying it on the Main page would be OK.--[[User:Bishonen| Bishonen (Talk)]] 13:06, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)
In the past, when they have been nominated, people have tended to object for the reasons Taxman writes. →Raul654 07:01, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)
On a more humerous note: I've noticed the colloborations of the week 'keeping score' by counting the number of featured articles they have produced. I'm curious - what's the score? Who's winning?
PS - IMHO, encouraging these kinds of competitons is good for wikipedia (as long as it doesn't get out of control). →Raul654 07:04, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)
My attempt at creating a score board, see User:Solitude/FA Scoreboard. A few things:
|
|
Does anyone understand why the article's HTML source has duplicated the value, toc, for the id attrib (on 2 different elements)? This is obviously invalid. - Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley 16:34, 2004 Nov 27 (UTC)
See this subpage of the Talk page for the Rachelle Waterman article, for a discussion of why a consensus could not be reached that would allow making the article into a Featured Article.
Hi this revert by 172 reverted too far back. It nailed some other editors comments including my own. There have been edits since, and I unfortunately do not have the time to sort them all out. Can someone do it, or perhaps User:172 can? I left a message on Tuf-Kat's talk page (oops, sorry) regarding the issue. Thanks. - Taxman 22:19, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)
Hi, I recently self-nominated Bernard Williams for featured article status. There were some objections, which I dealt with, and all objections have now been withdrawn. What is the next step in the process? Can the article now be considered a featured article?
Many thanks to all who gave advice and then support. Slim 23:41, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)
As this page has become enormous, and edit conflicts are causing duplication that is very difficult to repair, should we perhaps switch over to the transcluded-subpage format used on VFD, RFA, and FPC? This would also make logging and archiving easier. —No-One Jones (m) 00:34, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
After seeing the nomination for Laal language wiped out by a server glitch, I converted this to subpages. We can work out the kinks now, but I believe we were up against the technological limits of the old format. —No-One Jones (m) 11:09, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
There is a discussion on references in featured articles that I would like everyone to weigh in on at Wikipedia talk:What is a featured article. Thanks - Taxman 18:26, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)
I think I like the new setup, but I'll reserve judgement until the next time I have to clean this page out. →Raul654 07:01, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)
I listed Bernard Williams some time ago. Evil Monkey added the Featured Article template to the Bernard Williams Talk page on December 4, even though a couple of objections were, at that time, still outstanding. But it's not listed on the Featured Articles list, at least not under philosophy, which is where I assume it would belong as he was a philosopher. So does Evil Monkey putting the template on the Talk page mean it now has Featured Article status, and should I add it to the list myself? There are currently six supports and one objection. It would be useful if something more could be said on the project page about exactly how this process works. At the moment, it's a bit like the election of a new pope. At some point, smoke will come pouring out of a chimney, but there's no information about which chimney; or who is entitled to light the fire. :-) Slim 20:28, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)
WP:FAC has been mercifully free of the sock puppets, anons, and created-for-the-purpose accounts that plague VfD, but this process is intrinsically just as vulnerable to them, and can be poisoned as easily. Please take a look at what's happening at the Special relativity vote, Raul, and other experienced users of this page. Is there a policy in place against this sort of thing, or a rule, even? I think one is needed. My own feeling is that trolling by anons and just-created voters on WP:FAC needs to be removed. Any objections? Has this happened before?--[[User:Bishonen| Bishonen (talk)]] 21:27, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest that when article nominations are archived, those doing the relevant moves etc add a line giving the voting tallies. It's done on featured picture candidates when they're archived, and makes it easy to see at a glance what the result of the discussion was. Worldtraveller 10:49, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I notice it is currently in vogue to make sure all article are properly referenced at the time of feature. Can I plug then Template:Book reference. By using this template to add your references, nearly all the work in getting references formatted in the APA style requested at Wikipedia:Cite sources is done for you (you still need to remember to write Author = Lastname, FirstName). If lots of articles use this template, we will have a great starting point for automated conversion as and when the "references"/metadata tab gets implemented (lots of support for this tab on the mailing list at the moment). Pcb21| Pete 22:28, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I have a question. Several of my articles have been criticized for having too many photographs or for using photos that are too large. Is there a reason some editors don't like photographs in articles? For me, an illustrated article always looks better than one that isn't illustrated. A recent article of mine that I nominated for Featured Article status is Rat Park, which is about opiate addiction. It had four photos: a small one of the author of a study; a photo of a heroin addict; a drawing of an opium poppy; and a drawing of a rat self-administering morphine. A couple of editors said that the poppy and the heroin addict pics are "irrelevant" and they've been removed which, to my eyes, has left the page looking boring and ordinary. It's not the first time I've had this criticism of my articles, but I'm at a loss as to understand it. Encylopedias do use photographs. Does anyone know what the house style or convention is with photograph use, or where this conservatism (as I see it) regarding illustrated pages comes from? Slim 23:20, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
Re instructions: the current instructions are not the only way to do it, of course (and people - erm, like me - don't read these things anyway...)
When I made my first nomination today after the new sub-page structure had been created ( Tony Blair), I edited WP:FAC to add the sub-page reference and then edited the redlink, and finally added {{fac}} to Talk:Tony Blair. The instructions tell you to do it the other way around.
Which is easiest?
(PS - Filiocht - edit away :) -- ALoan (Talk) 15:29, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Please see [2] for a discussion on reusing (unbolding) the current crop of already-featured articles. 20:15, Dec 19, 2004 (UTC)
Please, could somebody fix the Domestic skunk/ Pet skunk nomination? I noticed something had gone wrong with it this morning--look right at the bottom of the Christmas vote, and you'll see. I've been staring at the History and at the article itself, hoping to fix it, but I can't figure how. (It looks like the article has been moved several times.)--[[User:Bishonen| Bishonen (talk)]] 19:21, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Now that we're transcluding, how do we relist? If I relist then it will show the old nomination, from the old page! How do we do this? - Ta bu shi da yu 00:10, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
On Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Seattle, Washington, it seemed to me like all objections had been met, but I see it has been removed from this page without any apparent action to say "yes, it's a featured article". Am I missing something? -- Jmabel | Talk 23:14, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)
Yeah, I have the same question for Pulaski Skyway. -- SPUI 23:24, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for the promotions and removals, Raul654, but when an article is removed from here as a failure the FAC template remains on the articles talk page. This makes it appear that it is still an active FAC and it also still appears in the FAC category. Should it be the archivers job or the nominators job to clean these up? Perhaps a new FormerFAC template should be used that still links to the discussion but notes that it did not reach a consensus at that time and is no longer an active discussion:
This article is a former
featured article candidate. Please
view that page to see why the nomination failed.
Once the objections have been met you may
resubmit the article.
[[Category:Wikipedia former featured article candidates|{{PAGENAME}}]]
The resubmit link would go to the instructions on how to resubmit an article (something that is a little unclear at the moment). Oh, and perhaps it should use the message box template for both templates. violet/riga (t) 17:45, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I found template:fac (contested) and have updated the style to work for both older and newer failed nominations. I think we could start using that one now, though "facfailed" might be better than "fac (contested)". violet/riga (t) 13:27, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I just added a comment to the "Rio de Janeiro" nomination, but it doesn't show on the main FAC page. However, when I click "edit" on the Rio section, it does. Any idea why this is and how I can fix it? Jeronimo 07:24, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Now the same thing happened with my comment on "bossa nova". Just in case, I'll paste my comments here:
A while back, something occurred to me: what if an article made it past FAC, but then its condition degenerated so that it would no longer match the expectations for a featured article? Is there a process an article could go through to be reconsidered and perhaps stripped of FAC status? I don't know of one, but if there isn't, I think there should be. I just came across the article on Mozart, which according to its talk page is featured, but to me it doesn't even look close to featured quality. Everyking 07:29, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
It's not so much a "degeneration" than a definite and marked increase in the standards for what a featured article should be. The standards have become so much higher that older featured articles tend not to measure up to the requirements as we interpret them today. This is particularly true of the holdovers from way back in the brilliant prose days. →Raul654 07:42, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)
Why is this page protected? How can someone nominate an article in this situation?-- Pharos 20:17, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Something like:
This page has been temporarily
protected from editing to prevent edit conflicts. It will be unprotected shortly. Thank you for your patience. |
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
← ( Archive 7) | Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates (archive) | ( Archive 5) → |
I was wondering that if I am nominating an article, do I have the right to remove objections if the author does not respond to responses. For example, if a person objects, and I respond telling them I corrected their reasons for objection, but they never respond nor change their objection, or any other form of response, do I have the right to remove it, or change it to a comment or something like that? How long should I give it till I consider it a "dead comment"? I ask this simply because I feel it is unfair for a person to object but yet not to consider the responses (in the form of article corrections or a written response) to their objections.
Also, I was wondering when a candidate becomes an official Featured Article. How many supports:objections must it have? Thank you. -- Lan56 06:11, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)
What is the policy on relisting failed nominations? Tintin was rejected as it had two supports and one objection (which may have been redrawn, I believe the points were adressed), and I cannot find a relisting policy in the tlak archives. { Ανάριον } 07:52, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
There have been at least three relisted nominations of Featured Articles in the past few weeks are so. I myself was almost guility of this when I was going to nominate the Fermi Paradox article, but then realized it was already featured. Perhaps we should just start putting the {{featured}} template on the front of the page rather than on the talk page? Any other ideas?
Pete is exactly right - keep the metadata out of the articles. And if someone lists something that's already a featured article, delete the nom on sight. →Raul654 00:32, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)
Here is results from the vote on the article Sesame Street. Does the vote need to more definitive than this?
Supported: Ta bu shi da yu, Filiocht, Mpolo, Zanimum
Opposed: Jongarrettuk, Jeronimo
"Object at the moment": Mgm
Jongarrettuk kept harping on the industry standard term edutainment, despite its world-wide usage. I changed the wording for him, but right after, the nomination was archived.
I addressed all but one of Jeronimo's concerns, but he didn't bother to change his vote, or comment elsewise.
I addressed one of Mgm's two concerns; the other, merchandising, didn't need expanding on the main page, IMHO. -- user:zanimum
If we fail to get any further response, what happens? Can I even just relist Sesame now? -- user:zanimum
May I relist? --- user:zanimum
If you believe that all the objections are now met and that the quality of the article remains high enough to be a featured article, you don't need anyone's permission - I say go for it! As I'm sure you're aware, it's probably worth noting when you do renominate it that it was recently listed, add a link to the discussion we had then, and note that you believe all the matters objected to are now dealt with. If you don't, someone else will and may use more negative phrasing than you would. jguk 17:34, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Question to Raul: I noticed recently that some of the contributors have voted on their own article. E.g., Chris73 voted for his "own" article about Japanese toilets (nominated by someone else), while several collaborators on the Irish Geography article have also voted. Are their votes considered together with the non-contributing voters? Not that I mistrust these contributors (after all, they identified themselves as such), but these people are usually not too objective about their own article (I know I'm not). Just a question... Jeronimo 06:52, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Here are my thoughts on the subject (sorry for taking so long to reply, but I’ve been swamped lately). I believe true the arguments made against allowing people to vote on an article they have worked on (Because yes, there is obviously a tendency to think well of one's own work), but I also think that keeping all people who have worked on an article from voting on it would tend to bias the featured-article selection process away from the contributors best knowledgeable about a subject. I think the system I have been using up until now -- to ignore the vote of the nominator but count everyone else's -- tends to work best. Virtually all the nominations being made are self-nominations, and so discounting the nominator tends to counter self-promotion bias. On the other hand, letting others vote on the article ensures that we don’t risk the "factually accurate" criteria, which after all is the most important criteria of being a featured article.
Furthermore, this has the wonderful characteristic of being simple - we don't have to worry about defining what a significant contribution is, or whose votes count and whose doesn't, etc. Going down that path only leads to VFD and RFA like pages, which will happen to the FAC over my dead body. →Raul654 16:53, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)
I'm adding a nomination, but it doesn't show until I force the page to purge. What's up with that? - Ta bu shi da yu 11:37, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
This has been discussed before, but if:
then the edited section is saved in the wrong place (replacing and overwriting the section above). This leads to duplicate sections - one with the edit above one without the edit - and the overwritten section disappears. Deleting duplicate sections is easy enough, but the overwritten section is only apparent from the page history.
This is a significant problem on a high-traffic page like this. In the past week or so, I've replaced overwritten sections a number of times. Presumably it would be possible to avoid this if each FAC nominee went into its own subpage (say, /Shroud of Turin, /Congo Civil War) as on WP:VFD, WP:RFA and others - is there a reason it is not done here (other than historical accident)?
In the meantime:
Thanks. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:13, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
In writing up a Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums/Featured albums proposal|Featured albums proposal, I have discovered that, as I thought I remembered, Smile was once nominated for featured status, but I can't find any record of it. Am I missing something? What are the extant objections? Tuf-Kat 23:55, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)
A lot of the articles nominated here have some basic defects, which should really be there before becoming featured. Top defects include missing references and an insufficient lead section; also image problems occur frequently. Referring back to Peer Review usually doesn't work (it isn't moved, or the peer review is poor). Would it be an idea to make a "Nomination checklist", which lists these issues spefically ("What is a featured article could also be adapted")? We could then refer to this checklist when a nominated article has such problems, without having to explain the problems in detail once again. This should save space and effort, which can then be used to judge the actual content and accuracy of the article. I wouldn't want to make this a formal thing, but I think it would be useful for both nominators and voters. Jeronimo 11:41, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Some time back, when I nominated a bunch of my works on WP:FAC, they received a great deal of support. However, there was one objection which was never removed (this held up I Want To Hold Your Hand; even when I personally contacted the objector on his talk page after fixing the objection, it was not withdrawn, nor was any reason given for continued objection). The objection? That I made too liberal use of online references (for examples, see the relevant sections on Hey Jude and Something, both already featured articles). I think we should get some sort of consensus on this (I tried Cite sources, but nothing resulted).
I mean, if it's some site on Tripod with no bibliography or references, and practically unknown anyhow, that's okay, it's reasonable. But the sites where I got my material from do list their references, and both score extremely high on Google when searching for "the Beatles". This site is the second result for "the Beatles", just behind the official Beatles website. This site provides a bibliography. Clearly if the article's references are credible, they should be allowed to stand; referencing some teenybopper's Frontpage-designed Geocities site shouldn't, or at the very least, be questioned. I think this should be viewed as part of a slightly larger problem — if I'm not mistaken, policy dictates that no article can become featured unless all objections are resolved. However, what objections are actionable/reasonable? For example, take the nomination of A Tale of A Tub. Jeronimo's objection sticks out like a sore thumb. If my understanding of policy is correct, this holds the article back, despite the mass amount of support from others, many of whom have criticised the objection (much like what occurred with the nominations of A Day in the Life and The Long and Winding Road).
Quite often I find that some objections/comments are just so vague, I'm not sure how to take action. A good deal of the time, if asked to clarify, the user doesn't respond (at least in my experience). For example, Ambi said some of the chronology on Get Back is unclear. I wasn't sure what she was talking about, so I asked a few days ago, and I still haven't got a response.
Sorry if I've wasted everybody's time with my rambling; I think we need to alter the policy sometime soon, as as our community grows, more and more users will be frequenting FAC. As the old parable goes, we're not able to please everyone. Some objective standards clearly must be met, such as references and a lead section. But in some more subjective ones, I think if there's mass disagreement with the relevant objection (or just a clear consensus), we should be able to sidestep the objection in question. We already trust this policy with electing our sysops; why not with our featured articles? Comments? Brickbats? Suggestions of more useful things to do than rambling on a talk page? Johnleemk | Talk 13:04, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere/before, but is "too long" a valid objection to a Featured Article candidate? Is the 32k "limit" advisory or mandatory? John Vanbrugh is around 41k, but excellent; Blackadder is also 30-something k, but very good. Does it matter that they exceed the "limit"? -- ALoan (Talk) 16:15, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
... fell short of "feature", though it appeared that only one or two individuals had outstanding objections, vs. eight supporters. It has already started "going backwards" in quality, with people making bizarre changes, hideous misspellings, editing without context, not using wiki style, etc.. I plan to track it, make the last changes suggested, and reintroduce it after a suitable time. This is sad, as this article was much better than most of the stuff that slips through the process. Sfahey 22:13, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
As one of the former objectors to featured status for this article I am happy to say that my former concerns have been addressed and on that basis I would not object its renomination. -- Sf 10:42, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Why is the FAC page protected?? How long will it be protected? How about putting some information about it at the top of the page?--[[User:Bishonen| Bishonen (Talk)]] 21:57, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I removed this prematurely, since it was obvious not all concerns could be addressed during the candidacy. Moved discussion to Talk:Grade (education). Perhaps put it on peer review to get additional comments. — David Remahl 18:54, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
There are, and have in the recent past, been a number of scientific or other technical articles that have been FACs. I for one take the view that these articles are not suitable as featured articles unless they can be understood by a layman. And I have not been the only one taking that view.
However, I do acknowledge that there is merit in having technical articles suitable for those who have a reasonable understanding of the underlying subject matter. I am also conscious that one of the objections to Wikipedia is that it has no quality control on scientific articles. What about having a new category of articles called "featured technical articles" (or something similar) that covers high quality encyclopaedic articles suitable for the technician rather than the layman? jguk 22:50, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
In the ongoing vote on Skateboarding trick, several voters have objected giving the reason that the article is a list. Is it policy that lists are not eligible for featured status? Is there a reference for it? I already asked in the voting itself, but I guess this is a better place, and more likely to be noticed. Could somebody please point me to a policy page, or similar? I rather like the article. It's a list, indeed, but it does have a Lead section, so displaying it on the Main page would be OK.--[[User:Bishonen| Bishonen (Talk)]] 13:06, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)
In the past, when they have been nominated, people have tended to object for the reasons Taxman writes. →Raul654 07:01, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)
On a more humerous note: I've noticed the colloborations of the week 'keeping score' by counting the number of featured articles they have produced. I'm curious - what's the score? Who's winning?
PS - IMHO, encouraging these kinds of competitons is good for wikipedia (as long as it doesn't get out of control). →Raul654 07:04, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)
My attempt at creating a score board, see User:Solitude/FA Scoreboard. A few things:
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Does anyone understand why the article's HTML source has duplicated the value, toc, for the id attrib (on 2 different elements)? This is obviously invalid. - Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley 16:34, 2004 Nov 27 (UTC)
See this subpage of the Talk page for the Rachelle Waterman article, for a discussion of why a consensus could not be reached that would allow making the article into a Featured Article.
Hi this revert by 172 reverted too far back. It nailed some other editors comments including my own. There have been edits since, and I unfortunately do not have the time to sort them all out. Can someone do it, or perhaps User:172 can? I left a message on Tuf-Kat's talk page (oops, sorry) regarding the issue. Thanks. - Taxman 22:19, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)
Hi, I recently self-nominated Bernard Williams for featured article status. There were some objections, which I dealt with, and all objections have now been withdrawn. What is the next step in the process? Can the article now be considered a featured article?
Many thanks to all who gave advice and then support. Slim 23:41, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)
As this page has become enormous, and edit conflicts are causing duplication that is very difficult to repair, should we perhaps switch over to the transcluded-subpage format used on VFD, RFA, and FPC? This would also make logging and archiving easier. —No-One Jones (m) 00:34, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
After seeing the nomination for Laal language wiped out by a server glitch, I converted this to subpages. We can work out the kinks now, but I believe we were up against the technological limits of the old format. —No-One Jones (m) 11:09, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
There is a discussion on references in featured articles that I would like everyone to weigh in on at Wikipedia talk:What is a featured article. Thanks - Taxman 18:26, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)
I think I like the new setup, but I'll reserve judgement until the next time I have to clean this page out. →Raul654 07:01, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)
I listed Bernard Williams some time ago. Evil Monkey added the Featured Article template to the Bernard Williams Talk page on December 4, even though a couple of objections were, at that time, still outstanding. But it's not listed on the Featured Articles list, at least not under philosophy, which is where I assume it would belong as he was a philosopher. So does Evil Monkey putting the template on the Talk page mean it now has Featured Article status, and should I add it to the list myself? There are currently six supports and one objection. It would be useful if something more could be said on the project page about exactly how this process works. At the moment, it's a bit like the election of a new pope. At some point, smoke will come pouring out of a chimney, but there's no information about which chimney; or who is entitled to light the fire. :-) Slim 20:28, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)
WP:FAC has been mercifully free of the sock puppets, anons, and created-for-the-purpose accounts that plague VfD, but this process is intrinsically just as vulnerable to them, and can be poisoned as easily. Please take a look at what's happening at the Special relativity vote, Raul, and other experienced users of this page. Is there a policy in place against this sort of thing, or a rule, even? I think one is needed. My own feeling is that trolling by anons and just-created voters on WP:FAC needs to be removed. Any objections? Has this happened before?--[[User:Bishonen| Bishonen (talk)]] 21:27, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest that when article nominations are archived, those doing the relevant moves etc add a line giving the voting tallies. It's done on featured picture candidates when they're archived, and makes it easy to see at a glance what the result of the discussion was. Worldtraveller 10:49, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I notice it is currently in vogue to make sure all article are properly referenced at the time of feature. Can I plug then Template:Book reference. By using this template to add your references, nearly all the work in getting references formatted in the APA style requested at Wikipedia:Cite sources is done for you (you still need to remember to write Author = Lastname, FirstName). If lots of articles use this template, we will have a great starting point for automated conversion as and when the "references"/metadata tab gets implemented (lots of support for this tab on the mailing list at the moment). Pcb21| Pete 22:28, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I have a question. Several of my articles have been criticized for having too many photographs or for using photos that are too large. Is there a reason some editors don't like photographs in articles? For me, an illustrated article always looks better than one that isn't illustrated. A recent article of mine that I nominated for Featured Article status is Rat Park, which is about opiate addiction. It had four photos: a small one of the author of a study; a photo of a heroin addict; a drawing of an opium poppy; and a drawing of a rat self-administering morphine. A couple of editors said that the poppy and the heroin addict pics are "irrelevant" and they've been removed which, to my eyes, has left the page looking boring and ordinary. It's not the first time I've had this criticism of my articles, but I'm at a loss as to understand it. Encylopedias do use photographs. Does anyone know what the house style or convention is with photograph use, or where this conservatism (as I see it) regarding illustrated pages comes from? Slim 23:20, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
Re instructions: the current instructions are not the only way to do it, of course (and people - erm, like me - don't read these things anyway...)
When I made my first nomination today after the new sub-page structure had been created ( Tony Blair), I edited WP:FAC to add the sub-page reference and then edited the redlink, and finally added {{fac}} to Talk:Tony Blair. The instructions tell you to do it the other way around.
Which is easiest?
(PS - Filiocht - edit away :) -- ALoan (Talk) 15:29, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Please see [2] for a discussion on reusing (unbolding) the current crop of already-featured articles. 20:15, Dec 19, 2004 (UTC)
Please, could somebody fix the Domestic skunk/ Pet skunk nomination? I noticed something had gone wrong with it this morning--look right at the bottom of the Christmas vote, and you'll see. I've been staring at the History and at the article itself, hoping to fix it, but I can't figure how. (It looks like the article has been moved several times.)--[[User:Bishonen| Bishonen (talk)]] 19:21, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Now that we're transcluding, how do we relist? If I relist then it will show the old nomination, from the old page! How do we do this? - Ta bu shi da yu 00:10, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
On Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Seattle, Washington, it seemed to me like all objections had been met, but I see it has been removed from this page without any apparent action to say "yes, it's a featured article". Am I missing something? -- Jmabel | Talk 23:14, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)
Yeah, I have the same question for Pulaski Skyway. -- SPUI 23:24, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for the promotions and removals, Raul654, but when an article is removed from here as a failure the FAC template remains on the articles talk page. This makes it appear that it is still an active FAC and it also still appears in the FAC category. Should it be the archivers job or the nominators job to clean these up? Perhaps a new FormerFAC template should be used that still links to the discussion but notes that it did not reach a consensus at that time and is no longer an active discussion:
This article is a former
featured article candidate. Please
view that page to see why the nomination failed.
Once the objections have been met you may
resubmit the article.
[[Category:Wikipedia former featured article candidates|{{PAGENAME}}]]
The resubmit link would go to the instructions on how to resubmit an article (something that is a little unclear at the moment). Oh, and perhaps it should use the message box template for both templates. violet/riga (t) 17:45, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I found template:fac (contested) and have updated the style to work for both older and newer failed nominations. I think we could start using that one now, though "facfailed" might be better than "fac (contested)". violet/riga (t) 13:27, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I just added a comment to the "Rio de Janeiro" nomination, but it doesn't show on the main FAC page. However, when I click "edit" on the Rio section, it does. Any idea why this is and how I can fix it? Jeronimo 07:24, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Now the same thing happened with my comment on "bossa nova". Just in case, I'll paste my comments here:
A while back, something occurred to me: what if an article made it past FAC, but then its condition degenerated so that it would no longer match the expectations for a featured article? Is there a process an article could go through to be reconsidered and perhaps stripped of FAC status? I don't know of one, but if there isn't, I think there should be. I just came across the article on Mozart, which according to its talk page is featured, but to me it doesn't even look close to featured quality. Everyking 07:29, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
It's not so much a "degeneration" than a definite and marked increase in the standards for what a featured article should be. The standards have become so much higher that older featured articles tend not to measure up to the requirements as we interpret them today. This is particularly true of the holdovers from way back in the brilliant prose days. →Raul654 07:42, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)
Why is this page protected? How can someone nominate an article in this situation?-- Pharos 20:17, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Something like:
This page has been temporarily
protected from editing to prevent edit conflicts. It will be unprotected shortly. Thank you for your patience. |