![]() | This is the
talk page of a
redirect that has been
merged and now targets the page: • Wikipedia:Manual of Style Because this page is not frequently watched, present and future discussions, edit requests and requested moves should take place at: • Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style Merged page edit history is maintained in order to preserve attributions. |
![]() |
Manual of Style ![]() ![]() | |||||||||
|
Supporters of this rule include: Larry Sanger, JerryMuelver, Tim Shell, Pinkunicorn, AyeSpy (fervently), Janet Davis, drj, GWO, tbc, AxelBoldt, Koyaanis Qatsi, Enchanter, Rotem Dan, Bensaccount Nu Aeon, Narkstraws
Discussion:
Of course jargon should be explained. Unfortunately, the technique suggested (making links to pages where unfamiliar terms would be explained) will inevitably result in the deletion of the explanation when it's moved to wiktionary as a "dictionary definition". -- Nunh-huh 21:04, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Is there any other way? Bensaccount 21:39, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Opponents include: 24
24 - it sounds good, but really, you should be avoiding jargon in most articles - where it's impossible to avoid, of course, I support this rule. But remember, much jargon overlaps between fields and someone clicking down may well find that a "term of art" has become fuzzed out by many definitions. Imagine ontology, for instance, a branch of metaphysics, or a practice of knowledge representation? The article written for one will be incomprehensible to the person who is expecting the other.
Can this be modified to include trying to be reasonable about one's use of jargon? If I have to look up six words in the first sentence, and for half of them I have to look up another two words just to understand the explanations, I could end up reading twelve articles just to form a basic understanding of one sentence. The goal is to make communication easier, not more difficult. It's okay to use a specific technical term if it means exactly what you want it to mean, but if every other word has to be linked to an explanation, that's probably excessive. [[User:Aranel| Aranel (" Sarah")]] 21:20, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I think you can have some common-sense expectations about the audience of particular articles. If someone is reading cell (biology), they well may not be aware of protein as anything but something-or-other that's in food. I haven't looked, but I'm confident the word protein is a link in that article. If they're reading CD133, they can reasonably be assumed to have a pretty good idea what a protein is. If I write an entry for CD133, I may not make the word protein a link. -- dsws 19:11, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
At present there are many articles in the Wikipedia namespace that seek to give guidance on how to write better articles. I propose consolidating these into a much smaller number. On User:Jongarrettuk/Better writing guide I propose how these could be consolidated. The proposal is not to change advice, just to consolidate it. If I have inadvertently moved what you consider to be good advice that is currently in the Wikipedia namespace, please re-add it. I'm hope that the proposal to merge all these articles, in principle, will be welcomed. Of course, it may be preferred to have 2, 3 or 4 inter-connected articles than just one and would welcome advice on how this could be done. (In particular, perhaps all the guidance on layout should be spun off into one consolidated article on layout.) I'm also aware that putting lots of different bits of advice together may throw up anomalies or bits that people now disagree with (including bits that I myself disagree with:) ). I ask for support for the consolidation. Once the consolidation has happened, the advice can be changed in the normal way. Please feel free to improve on the current draft consolidation, but don't remove or add advice that is not currently on the Wikipedia namespace. If all goes well, I'll add a new Wikipedia:Guide to writing better articles page on the 19th, though maybe some bits of the new article will need to be phased in over a longer period. I'll also take care to preserve all the archived discussion in one place. v jguk 19:44, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Is there a template which can be added to articles asking for an explanation of jargon? If not there should be.-- naryathegreat | (talk) 05:02, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
Yes, the template is known as Template:Technical. Add it a talk page using
{{technical}}
-- DavidCary 07:13, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
I think this rule needs to be changed to discourage editors from using wikilinks as an excuse not to explain jargon.
The current rule does the opposite. It seems to discourage defining terms in the text:
"You can simply make your jargon terms links to articles explaining them; you can then link to that same explanation from many places. Alternatively, you may introduce the jargon term the first time you use it; beware, though, that technical terms often have a very precise meaning and that short explanations of their meaning may introduce some inaccuracies."
There are two problems with simply wikilinking words rather than explaining them. The first is that it makes understanding an article a time-intensive procedure, since the reader has to look up all the different terms on the page.
The other problem is that the articles on the jargon words are often more difficult to understand than the original article. Take the article on lightning. It begins as follows:
"Lightning is a powerful natural electrostatic discharge produced during a thunderstorm. This abrupt electric discharge is accompanied by the emission of visible light and other forms of electromagnetic radiation. The electric current passing through the discharge channels rapidly heats and expands the air into plasma, producing acoustic shock waves ( thunder) in the atmosphere."
Now, it's unlikely the average reader is going to know what electrostatic discharge or plasma is. But if the reader can't understand the lightning page, he or she certainly isn't going to understand the page on electrostatic discharge.
In this case, electrostatic discharge begins by saying "Electrostatic discharge (ESD) is the sudden and momentary electric current that flows when an excess of electric charge, stored on an electrically insulated object, finds a path to an object at a different electrical potential (such as ground)." The reader now has to click on electrical potential, which is the most-complicated article yet encountered, full of mathematical equations. And so on -- he or she could go on clicking all day without understanding the lightning article.
I believe wikilinks should be used to provide extra information on a topic if the reader chooses to seek it. They should not be used instead of defining terms the reader is unlikely to know.
I'm not saying every wikilinked term needs to be defined in the text. If it's a word the likely reader of the article probably knows, such as weather, it need not be defined (unless it's the weather article, of course). Also, if the reader does not need to understand the term to understand the article, and defining the term would be unwieldy, it could be excluded. For example, the article on Silesia says most of it was taken by Prussia in 1742 in the War of the Austrian Succession, but does not define that war. There is no need to say the war was a conflict between Prussia and allies on the one hand and Austria and allies on the other resulting from Maria Theresa's succession to the throne, because the reader does not need to know that to understand that Prussia took Silesia from Austria in 1742.
On the other hand, the reader of the lightning article does need to know what electrostatic discharge and plasma are in order to understand the opening paragraph. If I were to rewrite the lightning article, I would change "electrostatic discharge" to "discharge of static electricity," since most people know what static electricity is. I would also refrain from mentioning plasma until later in the article -- perhaps a "thunder" section -- when I would have room to explain that it is a form of matter in which atoms have been stripped of their electrons. (Or so I understand; I can't really understand the plasma article).
I think editors, when they write articles, should ask themselves whether the article can be understood by a likely reader without the wikilinks. If it can't be understood without the wikilinks, it should be improved to be easier to understand -- Mwalcoff 03:59, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
I think this should be merged with Wikipedia:Technical terms and definitions and Wikipedia:Make technical articles accessible.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 00:17, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia has become somewhat bureaucratic, and more bureaucracy than is absolutely necessary is bad for the project. In particular, bureaucratic use of jargon excludes people who don't yet know it, because it makes quite simple discussions impossible to understand. It tends to create an artificial division between those who use the jargon because they're familiar with it, and those who tend to stay away from policy discussions because they seem to be written in some weird code (and they often are!)
I've been a regular Wikipedia editor now for two-and-a-half years, which in Wikipedia terms makes me something of a grizzled old-timer, but even I do not find it easy to navigate though policy discussions when they're bristling with capitalized gibberish such as BLP, BRD, CN, ANI. For a relative newcomer, this is a very serious and quite unnecessary hurdle to involvement in Wikipedia's processes. It tends to alienate often quite good Wikipedians from the decision-making process, and thus it tends to split the community in two.
I suggest that we add a section specifically about Wikipedia jargon. My suggested wording is as follows:
-- Tony Sidaway 22:19, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
-- Nick t 01:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
My big problem with this rule is that it is completely open-ended. What criteria should an editor use to judge how much terminology to explain? What level of education should be assumed? What is or is not jargon depends entirely on who is doing the reading. At some point a technical article needs to assume a certain level of knowledge on the part of the reader or the text gets bogged down in pedantic explanation. — RJH ( talk) 19:33, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
...but I prefer to be very terse in style guidelines. Since WP:Words to avoid linked to jargon rather than this page until today, I imported the stuff I thought people might have actually read at jargon, mixed it with what was on this page, and then pared away everything that I thought people already knew or could deduce. Feel free to rewrite or revert. - Dan Dank55 ( send/receive) 03:34, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
This section gives the reader reason to doubt that the person who wrote it knows what the word "equation" means. I wonder if that person would consider the expression
to be an "equation". Michael Hardy ( talk) 01:55, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
[Sept's comment moved here...hope that's okay Sept!] It is fairly clear, in fact, that this page is an extreme opinion in the abstruseness discussion. It is rather old, and has not been modified or looked at recently; it would, taken literally, prohibit use of the mathematical senses of group, field, algebra, and probably class and set. It should be an essay, and warnings to consider avoiding technical terms, when feasible, inserted in useful places. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:56, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
This sentence contains a reasonable thought, but this is bad guidance; unless half of mathematics is accounted a very few technical and narrowly targeted articles. If someone else can think what would be reasonable to say here, please do so. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:35, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
←Okay, you took out "misunderstand". I was hoping if we left that in, we wouldn't need a separate sentence covering the case where people understand the wrong thing. Would you prefer a separate sentence, or adding "misunderstand"? - Dan Dank55 ( send/receive) 19:55, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Generally I leave people's stuff alone if it seems good enough to do the job, but a major goal of mine is to get the WIAGA pages just as short and tight as possible. Does this get everything into the first section that you're looking for? "Some articles may never become accessible to a wide readership, but most articles using academic or professional jargon should contain more explanation at a more basic level than would be available in the typical academic paper or textbook. On the other hand, an article which defines every term, or every symbol, may not be readable by anybody. It is often helpful to wikilink terms not obvious to most readers; sometimes links to Wiktionary may serve the reader as well as links to other Wikipedia articles. Pay particular attention to terms having meanings different from the common meaning." - Dan Dank55 ( send/receive) 03:22, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Do we need this? It is largely subsumed into the text just introduced; it's measurably stronger, but I'm not sure I agree with the strengthening. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:04, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
As style guidelines pages get better, people start reading them more and adding things. If you see something you do or don't like, please speak up; if I see comments from a couple of people whose work I'm familiar with, I probably won't bother to check it myself.
Today's edit by 68.0.124.33, adding a see-also link to a section of WP:BETTER, looks great to me. - Dan Dank55 ( send/receive)
I had to give a quick summary of this page over at WT:ACCESS. This was what came to mind; does this sound right?
- Dan Dank55 ( send/receive) 17:45, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I reverted. I'm not opposed to including more detail on some page (although this kind of detail probably belongs in one of the pages linked at See also instead of here), but first, I'd like to see an explanation of why this old list of US government technical terms is superior to general and specialized dictionaries, and why we should mention lists from the US and not from other countries, and why the implication that we prefer some terms over others belongs in a WP:GA? guideline. - Dan Dank55 ( send/receive) 13:46, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
A dictionary would be a good thing. It is inevitable that a jargon is developing as a means to express efficiently: it is in the human nature. However, the rule to avoid jargon is a good one, unless we wish to scare away new editors, so a dictionary could be used by:
As a animal editor I sometimes run aground on this rule. At what point is a word "jargon"? Example, in Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ruff/archive1 an editor objected to the term "wintering ground" in the context of annual migration as jargon. At what point do we start writing all these articles in simple English? Sabine's Sunbird talk 06:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Should there be internal links to terms and expinations of their meanings in articles? Hyacinth ( talk) 18:20, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
I thought this article was supposed to "explain jargon" but I still don't know what jargon means. 174.18.15.106 ( talk) 04:39, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Please note that this page has been nominated to be
consolidated with the primary
Manual of Style page. Please join the discussion at the MOS talk page in order to discus the possibility of merging this page with the MOS. Thank you.
—
V = IR (
Talk •
Contribs)
15:21, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
To follow Ohms's point here, I've scrutinised the page as part of the WP Styleguide Taskforce audit program. I wonder whether any editor would mind discussing what is substantive in this page; I do believe it's message(s) could easily be added in a few sentences to the main MoS page instead of standing alone on this one. Please let us know what you think. Tony (talk) 10:38, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Gnevin, I think a few summary sentences at MoS main could be written that encompass the messages at "Avoid jargon" and "Make technical articles accessible. What about this, under its own subsection in the "Miscellaneous" section?
"While some topics are intrinsically technical, editors should take every opportunity to make them accessible to an audience wider than the specialists in the field, and to a general audience where possible. Technical Technical words and phrases and jargon should be either avoided or explained. {{ Cleanup-jargon}} or {{ Jargon-statement}} can be used to tag articles with jargon problems."
There could be a link to what would then be an essay, "Make technical articles accessible", although I've suggested on the talk page at MTAA that it would be a good idea to tweak or remove a few of the points, whatever its status becomes. Tony (talk) 13:11, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
When I posted above I thought I was at WP:Technical terms and definitions. I agree this should be merged WP:Make_technical_articles_accessible in fact I'm going to be bold Gnevin ( talk) 17:38, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
I need this page! And the redirect is an essay, not really what I need. I am going to be (equally) bold and redirect this to WP:NOTTEXTBOOK. Forgive me. ---- CharlesGillingham ( talk) 18:44, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This is the
talk page of a
redirect that has been
merged and now targets the page: • Wikipedia:Manual of Style Because this page is not frequently watched, present and future discussions, edit requests and requested moves should take place at: • Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style Merged page edit history is maintained in order to preserve attributions. |
![]() |
Manual of Style ![]() ![]() | |||||||||
|
Supporters of this rule include: Larry Sanger, JerryMuelver, Tim Shell, Pinkunicorn, AyeSpy (fervently), Janet Davis, drj, GWO, tbc, AxelBoldt, Koyaanis Qatsi, Enchanter, Rotem Dan, Bensaccount Nu Aeon, Narkstraws
Discussion:
Of course jargon should be explained. Unfortunately, the technique suggested (making links to pages where unfamiliar terms would be explained) will inevitably result in the deletion of the explanation when it's moved to wiktionary as a "dictionary definition". -- Nunh-huh 21:04, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Is there any other way? Bensaccount 21:39, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Opponents include: 24
24 - it sounds good, but really, you should be avoiding jargon in most articles - where it's impossible to avoid, of course, I support this rule. But remember, much jargon overlaps between fields and someone clicking down may well find that a "term of art" has become fuzzed out by many definitions. Imagine ontology, for instance, a branch of metaphysics, or a practice of knowledge representation? The article written for one will be incomprehensible to the person who is expecting the other.
Can this be modified to include trying to be reasonable about one's use of jargon? If I have to look up six words in the first sentence, and for half of them I have to look up another two words just to understand the explanations, I could end up reading twelve articles just to form a basic understanding of one sentence. The goal is to make communication easier, not more difficult. It's okay to use a specific technical term if it means exactly what you want it to mean, but if every other word has to be linked to an explanation, that's probably excessive. [[User:Aranel| Aranel (" Sarah")]] 21:20, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I think you can have some common-sense expectations about the audience of particular articles. If someone is reading cell (biology), they well may not be aware of protein as anything but something-or-other that's in food. I haven't looked, but I'm confident the word protein is a link in that article. If they're reading CD133, they can reasonably be assumed to have a pretty good idea what a protein is. If I write an entry for CD133, I may not make the word protein a link. -- dsws 19:11, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
At present there are many articles in the Wikipedia namespace that seek to give guidance on how to write better articles. I propose consolidating these into a much smaller number. On User:Jongarrettuk/Better writing guide I propose how these could be consolidated. The proposal is not to change advice, just to consolidate it. If I have inadvertently moved what you consider to be good advice that is currently in the Wikipedia namespace, please re-add it. I'm hope that the proposal to merge all these articles, in principle, will be welcomed. Of course, it may be preferred to have 2, 3 or 4 inter-connected articles than just one and would welcome advice on how this could be done. (In particular, perhaps all the guidance on layout should be spun off into one consolidated article on layout.) I'm also aware that putting lots of different bits of advice together may throw up anomalies or bits that people now disagree with (including bits that I myself disagree with:) ). I ask for support for the consolidation. Once the consolidation has happened, the advice can be changed in the normal way. Please feel free to improve on the current draft consolidation, but don't remove or add advice that is not currently on the Wikipedia namespace. If all goes well, I'll add a new Wikipedia:Guide to writing better articles page on the 19th, though maybe some bits of the new article will need to be phased in over a longer period. I'll also take care to preserve all the archived discussion in one place. v jguk 19:44, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Is there a template which can be added to articles asking for an explanation of jargon? If not there should be.-- naryathegreat | (talk) 05:02, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
Yes, the template is known as Template:Technical. Add it a talk page using
{{technical}}
-- DavidCary 07:13, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
I think this rule needs to be changed to discourage editors from using wikilinks as an excuse not to explain jargon.
The current rule does the opposite. It seems to discourage defining terms in the text:
"You can simply make your jargon terms links to articles explaining them; you can then link to that same explanation from many places. Alternatively, you may introduce the jargon term the first time you use it; beware, though, that technical terms often have a very precise meaning and that short explanations of their meaning may introduce some inaccuracies."
There are two problems with simply wikilinking words rather than explaining them. The first is that it makes understanding an article a time-intensive procedure, since the reader has to look up all the different terms on the page.
The other problem is that the articles on the jargon words are often more difficult to understand than the original article. Take the article on lightning. It begins as follows:
"Lightning is a powerful natural electrostatic discharge produced during a thunderstorm. This abrupt electric discharge is accompanied by the emission of visible light and other forms of electromagnetic radiation. The electric current passing through the discharge channels rapidly heats and expands the air into plasma, producing acoustic shock waves ( thunder) in the atmosphere."
Now, it's unlikely the average reader is going to know what electrostatic discharge or plasma is. But if the reader can't understand the lightning page, he or she certainly isn't going to understand the page on electrostatic discharge.
In this case, electrostatic discharge begins by saying "Electrostatic discharge (ESD) is the sudden and momentary electric current that flows when an excess of electric charge, stored on an electrically insulated object, finds a path to an object at a different electrical potential (such as ground)." The reader now has to click on electrical potential, which is the most-complicated article yet encountered, full of mathematical equations. And so on -- he or she could go on clicking all day without understanding the lightning article.
I believe wikilinks should be used to provide extra information on a topic if the reader chooses to seek it. They should not be used instead of defining terms the reader is unlikely to know.
I'm not saying every wikilinked term needs to be defined in the text. If it's a word the likely reader of the article probably knows, such as weather, it need not be defined (unless it's the weather article, of course). Also, if the reader does not need to understand the term to understand the article, and defining the term would be unwieldy, it could be excluded. For example, the article on Silesia says most of it was taken by Prussia in 1742 in the War of the Austrian Succession, but does not define that war. There is no need to say the war was a conflict between Prussia and allies on the one hand and Austria and allies on the other resulting from Maria Theresa's succession to the throne, because the reader does not need to know that to understand that Prussia took Silesia from Austria in 1742.
On the other hand, the reader of the lightning article does need to know what electrostatic discharge and plasma are in order to understand the opening paragraph. If I were to rewrite the lightning article, I would change "electrostatic discharge" to "discharge of static electricity," since most people know what static electricity is. I would also refrain from mentioning plasma until later in the article -- perhaps a "thunder" section -- when I would have room to explain that it is a form of matter in which atoms have been stripped of their electrons. (Or so I understand; I can't really understand the plasma article).
I think editors, when they write articles, should ask themselves whether the article can be understood by a likely reader without the wikilinks. If it can't be understood without the wikilinks, it should be improved to be easier to understand -- Mwalcoff 03:59, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
I think this should be merged with Wikipedia:Technical terms and definitions and Wikipedia:Make technical articles accessible.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 00:17, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia has become somewhat bureaucratic, and more bureaucracy than is absolutely necessary is bad for the project. In particular, bureaucratic use of jargon excludes people who don't yet know it, because it makes quite simple discussions impossible to understand. It tends to create an artificial division between those who use the jargon because they're familiar with it, and those who tend to stay away from policy discussions because they seem to be written in some weird code (and they often are!)
I've been a regular Wikipedia editor now for two-and-a-half years, which in Wikipedia terms makes me something of a grizzled old-timer, but even I do not find it easy to navigate though policy discussions when they're bristling with capitalized gibberish such as BLP, BRD, CN, ANI. For a relative newcomer, this is a very serious and quite unnecessary hurdle to involvement in Wikipedia's processes. It tends to alienate often quite good Wikipedians from the decision-making process, and thus it tends to split the community in two.
I suggest that we add a section specifically about Wikipedia jargon. My suggested wording is as follows:
-- Tony Sidaway 22:19, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
-- Nick t 01:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
My big problem with this rule is that it is completely open-ended. What criteria should an editor use to judge how much terminology to explain? What level of education should be assumed? What is or is not jargon depends entirely on who is doing the reading. At some point a technical article needs to assume a certain level of knowledge on the part of the reader or the text gets bogged down in pedantic explanation. — RJH ( talk) 19:33, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
...but I prefer to be very terse in style guidelines. Since WP:Words to avoid linked to jargon rather than this page until today, I imported the stuff I thought people might have actually read at jargon, mixed it with what was on this page, and then pared away everything that I thought people already knew or could deduce. Feel free to rewrite or revert. - Dan Dank55 ( send/receive) 03:34, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
This section gives the reader reason to doubt that the person who wrote it knows what the word "equation" means. I wonder if that person would consider the expression
to be an "equation". Michael Hardy ( talk) 01:55, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
[Sept's comment moved here...hope that's okay Sept!] It is fairly clear, in fact, that this page is an extreme opinion in the abstruseness discussion. It is rather old, and has not been modified or looked at recently; it would, taken literally, prohibit use of the mathematical senses of group, field, algebra, and probably class and set. It should be an essay, and warnings to consider avoiding technical terms, when feasible, inserted in useful places. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:56, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
This sentence contains a reasonable thought, but this is bad guidance; unless half of mathematics is accounted a very few technical and narrowly targeted articles. If someone else can think what would be reasonable to say here, please do so. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:35, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
←Okay, you took out "misunderstand". I was hoping if we left that in, we wouldn't need a separate sentence covering the case where people understand the wrong thing. Would you prefer a separate sentence, or adding "misunderstand"? - Dan Dank55 ( send/receive) 19:55, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Generally I leave people's stuff alone if it seems good enough to do the job, but a major goal of mine is to get the WIAGA pages just as short and tight as possible. Does this get everything into the first section that you're looking for? "Some articles may never become accessible to a wide readership, but most articles using academic or professional jargon should contain more explanation at a more basic level than would be available in the typical academic paper or textbook. On the other hand, an article which defines every term, or every symbol, may not be readable by anybody. It is often helpful to wikilink terms not obvious to most readers; sometimes links to Wiktionary may serve the reader as well as links to other Wikipedia articles. Pay particular attention to terms having meanings different from the common meaning." - Dan Dank55 ( send/receive) 03:22, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Do we need this? It is largely subsumed into the text just introduced; it's measurably stronger, but I'm not sure I agree with the strengthening. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:04, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
As style guidelines pages get better, people start reading them more and adding things. If you see something you do or don't like, please speak up; if I see comments from a couple of people whose work I'm familiar with, I probably won't bother to check it myself.
Today's edit by 68.0.124.33, adding a see-also link to a section of WP:BETTER, looks great to me. - Dan Dank55 ( send/receive)
I had to give a quick summary of this page over at WT:ACCESS. This was what came to mind; does this sound right?
- Dan Dank55 ( send/receive) 17:45, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I reverted. I'm not opposed to including more detail on some page (although this kind of detail probably belongs in one of the pages linked at See also instead of here), but first, I'd like to see an explanation of why this old list of US government technical terms is superior to general and specialized dictionaries, and why we should mention lists from the US and not from other countries, and why the implication that we prefer some terms over others belongs in a WP:GA? guideline. - Dan Dank55 ( send/receive) 13:46, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
A dictionary would be a good thing. It is inevitable that a jargon is developing as a means to express efficiently: it is in the human nature. However, the rule to avoid jargon is a good one, unless we wish to scare away new editors, so a dictionary could be used by:
As a animal editor I sometimes run aground on this rule. At what point is a word "jargon"? Example, in Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ruff/archive1 an editor objected to the term "wintering ground" in the context of annual migration as jargon. At what point do we start writing all these articles in simple English? Sabine's Sunbird talk 06:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Should there be internal links to terms and expinations of their meanings in articles? Hyacinth ( talk) 18:20, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
I thought this article was supposed to "explain jargon" but I still don't know what jargon means. 174.18.15.106 ( talk) 04:39, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Please note that this page has been nominated to be
consolidated with the primary
Manual of Style page. Please join the discussion at the MOS talk page in order to discus the possibility of merging this page with the MOS. Thank you.
—
V = IR (
Talk •
Contribs)
15:21, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
To follow Ohms's point here, I've scrutinised the page as part of the WP Styleguide Taskforce audit program. I wonder whether any editor would mind discussing what is substantive in this page; I do believe it's message(s) could easily be added in a few sentences to the main MoS page instead of standing alone on this one. Please let us know what you think. Tony (talk) 10:38, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Gnevin, I think a few summary sentences at MoS main could be written that encompass the messages at "Avoid jargon" and "Make technical articles accessible. What about this, under its own subsection in the "Miscellaneous" section?
"While some topics are intrinsically technical, editors should take every opportunity to make them accessible to an audience wider than the specialists in the field, and to a general audience where possible. Technical Technical words and phrases and jargon should be either avoided or explained. {{ Cleanup-jargon}} or {{ Jargon-statement}} can be used to tag articles with jargon problems."
There could be a link to what would then be an essay, "Make technical articles accessible", although I've suggested on the talk page at MTAA that it would be a good idea to tweak or remove a few of the points, whatever its status becomes. Tony (talk) 13:11, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
When I posted above I thought I was at WP:Technical terms and definitions. I agree this should be merged WP:Make_technical_articles_accessible in fact I'm going to be bold Gnevin ( talk) 17:38, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
I need this page! And the redirect is an essay, not really what I need. I am going to be (equally) bold and redirect this to WP:NOTTEXTBOOK. Forgive me. ---- CharlesGillingham ( talk) 18:44, 2 November 2010 (UTC)