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Any comments on which version of IMP works better?
-- RoySmith 18:26, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
This input was prompted by discussion around the IMP article.
Using IMP as an example, there are two lines that contain parenthetical information that I added. One parenthetical addition is "(iMP)" while the other is "(callsign IMP)".
These are instances of a general principle that would be useful to consider for inclusion in informal practice or as formal addition to the guideline. There is likely a technical term for this, but I refer to it as "letting the user know why they are seeing item X". Let's assume that instead of "Imparja Television" the target article was "Australian Aboriginal Television Imparja" (for argument's sake); given this target article title, it is not as clear why the user is seeing the article listed on a dab page aimed at the TLA "IMP" without adding information on the target string, the callsign. There are lots of related examples; for instance see AAR, where I've added the target string "air-to-air refueling" downstream of the target article link "aerial refueling", or A Train, where there are several performers who share this as a nickname or stage name and this is indicated on each line. My adding this information is an outcome of have heard a lot of useability feedback on interfaces I've contributed to building related to the user not having a clear understanding from looking at search result X why that search result was returned. It is true that parsing a dab page is not equivalent to parsing a search result, but in principle they are the same where the dab page represents a "pre-processed" search result.
My proposal for wording of a guideline addition, though I'm not sure if it's desirable to have this as anything more than a tolerated practice at this point, is something like (but with better diction): "In those cases where the dab-target article name is sufficiently distinct from the dab article title that their connection is not obvious, inclusion of a clarifying statement (such as a parenthetical following the dab-target link) can be added to increase the reader's confidence that this link indeed is the one that should be followed to the desired information."
Courtland 00:39, 25 August 2005
Question: how is this relevent to considering issues about disambiguation - isn't it a good thing, whats with the negativity?
I'm finding a number of articles that it is useful to include a linkage to Wiktionary on using the Sisterproject template {{ wiktionarypar}} where the passed parameter is a lower-case version of the page name or a bare page name without "(disambiguation)". Also, in the case of abbreviations, {{ wiktionary}} is suitable to use without forced lower case.
I propose the following:
Thanks for the input. Courtland 11:48, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
I occasionally run across disambig pages that desperately need "cleaning" (i.e. check "what-links-here", and edit all the pages to refer to the proper targets). A good example is league - see Special:Whatlinkshere/League. However, I don't have the time to stop and do it right now, but I'd like to flag it as needing cleanup. Is there some category, something like Category:Disambigs needing pruning, or something, that we can tag them with, so they are noted as needing work? Noel (talk) 06:05, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
Alright, here's a dumb question from a newbie. There is a page that I am proposing to split. The page is on Cram Schools. Is this a disambiguation? Can someone look at the page to see that I followed the necessary guidelines.
I've been browsing Wikipedia for sometime, but started learning to edit pages recently. I'm still learning a lot of the in's and out's of how to do things. If someone can help me I'd appreciate it. Feel free to post on my talk page. Thanks... Davidpdx
I've changed the former dab page N Train to a redirect to N (New York City Subway service). This contravenes some input from Talk:1 Train, but I'm think I'm on relatively good footing by positing that "one link does not a dab page make" ... or am I? I've not looked through the archives to see if this has been addressed previously. Thanks for the input. Courtland 03:40, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
I had a thought for improving disambig pages. <snip>
Maybe this should go under Naming Conventions, and if it has been discussed somewhere already I hope someone will point out where, but I had a thought about disambiguating real and fictional people. This came up before with Miles O'Brien - that page is for the Star Trek character, while the real person is at Miles O'Brien (journalist). The other incident that brought this to my attention was Cylon - he was a real ancient Athenian, but there is also Cylon (Battlestar Galactica), and today the fictional androids or whatever they are were briefly moved to the simple "Cylon" title.
It seems to me that when a real person is notable enough to have an encyclopedia, like Cylon or Miles O'Brien, they should always get the non-disambiguated article title. Fictional Cylons or Miles O'Briens should not take precedence. Now, supposedly, in these cases the fictional characters are more well-known than the real people, and that's probably true considering who usually uses and edits Wikipedia, but I don't think that should matter. I know there is a rule about using the title that most people will expect to find, but in this case I think that rule should be ignored.
I don't want to make up a policy about it without getting other opinions though, so we can discuss it here I guess. Adam Bishop 21:55, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
There are two George Millers, both of whom are Australian, are film and television director and producers. The page currently lists both, but I want to separate them out and add the second to George Miller (disambiguation). Any ideas for how to name their respective articles? -- K. AKA Konrad West TALK 06:06, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
See discussion thread at Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation and abbreviations#Lists of Abbreviations and Links to Disambiguation pages. Courtland 17:04, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
Please help to fend off a stubborn anon from a disambiguation page Lenin (disambiguation). mikka (t) 21:48, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
I need some clarification about when to use disambugation vs a link to the alternative page. I was creating a Lost Eden article about an adventure game but realised there is also an upcoming Lost Eden expansion pack for Anarchy Online. Fortunately, the expansion pack already has an article under Lost Eden (Anarchy Online) so there is no conflict. In my article, I placed a link to the AO Lost Eden and did not create a disambiguation page (see my article if confused). I did this because as far as I can tell, there are currently only 2 Lost Edens. There is a work in progress movie link to Lost Eden on someone's talk page but a quick Google doesn't find anything so perhaps this is incorrect, I did come across a Children of the Lost Eden. Was this the correct thing to do? I have seen disambugiation pages with 2 links only before but there are usually names or general phrases which I suppose are more likely to have more then 2 enteries.
Given that I would admit, Lost Eden has never been very well popular or well known and the AO expansion pack is already much more popular and more well known, would it be preferble to make Lost Eden into a disambugation and link to the game (perhaps Lost Eden (adventure game)) and the AO expansion even with only 2 links? Nil Einne 07:12, 28 October 2005 (UTC) P.S. I just noticed the one link does not a disambig make which also supports my theory on 2 links. So it appears the general consensus is I did the right thing I think... Nil Einne 08:21, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
I was looking for Zorro and didn't know how to spell it so got to Zoro by mistake. This pair doesn't rate a dab page, but the two articles should reference each other. Is there a standard template to do that? -- RoySmith 23:27, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Should a disambiguation page be classed as a stub? Cawas and I were discussing whether Filthy should be a stub, and Cawas gave the following example:
Would this be correct? Should you call filthy (were it in the above situation) a stub? Thelb 4 21:45, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
An item on AFD has brought up a dispute on the validity of a disambiguation page containing exclusively redlinks. This isn't covered in the guideline, although redlinks themselves are permitted, and I'd encourage discussion here on whether there should be a policy on it. — Wahoofive ( talk) 16:57, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
I work with the Missing Encyclopedic Articles and am constantly pruning new lists of already existing articles. One of my big pet peeves when I run into a disambig page is that there is seems that there never enough info on the disambiguation page to fully disambiguate who the person was and I have to check several articles just to be sure. Adding the birth and death dates would really help make the disambiguation easier and provide some context for who the person was. Can this info be added into the manual of style of disambig pages? If it is accepted, the conversion could be semi-automated by looking at the Category:1931 births Category:1995 deaths of the article in question. Any input or bot writers to covert the disambig pages would be awesome. -- Reflex Reaction ( talk)• 20:19, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
I was wondering what the policy was on including external links on disamb pages, because there is one on Flat Rock (at least at the time of this writing). - Akamad 23:12, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
The "Lift" example in the guideline does not conform to the MoS, does it? E.g. each line does not start with a link; and other words in the line are also linked. Even if these are valid exceptions (and I don't see why they would be), better to give an example that does not contain exceptions. While I'm at it, is this guideline really the place to be told how to pronounce disambiguation? Nurg 22:14, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
I also don't like the lift example because by adding it, we've specifically added a recommendation (at least an example) that nested lists are to be used for disambiguation pages. Up till now, neither this page nor
MOS:DAB has recommended or allowed nested lists, and in my opinion they should not be used in disambiguation pages. You may argue that it doesn't recommend against them; fine—let it remain that way.
I'm going to find a better example and replace this one. — Michael Z. 2005-12-3 06:27 Z
A good example should have examples of the different types of links (same name, name with "(disambiguation)", similar name, different name plus link, different name plus section link). It should be relatively brief, and contain few or no exceptions to the recommendations. It should be relatively stable. I haven't found a perfect one, but below are some candidates. — Michael Z. 2005-12-3 07:11 Z
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | → | Archive 15 |
Any comments on which version of IMP works better?
-- RoySmith 18:26, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
This input was prompted by discussion around the IMP article.
Using IMP as an example, there are two lines that contain parenthetical information that I added. One parenthetical addition is "(iMP)" while the other is "(callsign IMP)".
These are instances of a general principle that would be useful to consider for inclusion in informal practice or as formal addition to the guideline. There is likely a technical term for this, but I refer to it as "letting the user know why they are seeing item X". Let's assume that instead of "Imparja Television" the target article was "Australian Aboriginal Television Imparja" (for argument's sake); given this target article title, it is not as clear why the user is seeing the article listed on a dab page aimed at the TLA "IMP" without adding information on the target string, the callsign. There are lots of related examples; for instance see AAR, where I've added the target string "air-to-air refueling" downstream of the target article link "aerial refueling", or A Train, where there are several performers who share this as a nickname or stage name and this is indicated on each line. My adding this information is an outcome of have heard a lot of useability feedback on interfaces I've contributed to building related to the user not having a clear understanding from looking at search result X why that search result was returned. It is true that parsing a dab page is not equivalent to parsing a search result, but in principle they are the same where the dab page represents a "pre-processed" search result.
My proposal for wording of a guideline addition, though I'm not sure if it's desirable to have this as anything more than a tolerated practice at this point, is something like (but with better diction): "In those cases where the dab-target article name is sufficiently distinct from the dab article title that their connection is not obvious, inclusion of a clarifying statement (such as a parenthetical following the dab-target link) can be added to increase the reader's confidence that this link indeed is the one that should be followed to the desired information."
Courtland 00:39, 25 August 2005
Question: how is this relevent to considering issues about disambiguation - isn't it a good thing, whats with the negativity?
I'm finding a number of articles that it is useful to include a linkage to Wiktionary on using the Sisterproject template {{ wiktionarypar}} where the passed parameter is a lower-case version of the page name or a bare page name without "(disambiguation)". Also, in the case of abbreviations, {{ wiktionary}} is suitable to use without forced lower case.
I propose the following:
Thanks for the input. Courtland 11:48, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
I occasionally run across disambig pages that desperately need "cleaning" (i.e. check "what-links-here", and edit all the pages to refer to the proper targets). A good example is league - see Special:Whatlinkshere/League. However, I don't have the time to stop and do it right now, but I'd like to flag it as needing cleanup. Is there some category, something like Category:Disambigs needing pruning, or something, that we can tag them with, so they are noted as needing work? Noel (talk) 06:05, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
Alright, here's a dumb question from a newbie. There is a page that I am proposing to split. The page is on Cram Schools. Is this a disambiguation? Can someone look at the page to see that I followed the necessary guidelines.
I've been browsing Wikipedia for sometime, but started learning to edit pages recently. I'm still learning a lot of the in's and out's of how to do things. If someone can help me I'd appreciate it. Feel free to post on my talk page. Thanks... Davidpdx
I've changed the former dab page N Train to a redirect to N (New York City Subway service). This contravenes some input from Talk:1 Train, but I'm think I'm on relatively good footing by positing that "one link does not a dab page make" ... or am I? I've not looked through the archives to see if this has been addressed previously. Thanks for the input. Courtland 03:40, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
I had a thought for improving disambig pages. <snip>
Maybe this should go under Naming Conventions, and if it has been discussed somewhere already I hope someone will point out where, but I had a thought about disambiguating real and fictional people. This came up before with Miles O'Brien - that page is for the Star Trek character, while the real person is at Miles O'Brien (journalist). The other incident that brought this to my attention was Cylon - he was a real ancient Athenian, but there is also Cylon (Battlestar Galactica), and today the fictional androids or whatever they are were briefly moved to the simple "Cylon" title.
It seems to me that when a real person is notable enough to have an encyclopedia, like Cylon or Miles O'Brien, they should always get the non-disambiguated article title. Fictional Cylons or Miles O'Briens should not take precedence. Now, supposedly, in these cases the fictional characters are more well-known than the real people, and that's probably true considering who usually uses and edits Wikipedia, but I don't think that should matter. I know there is a rule about using the title that most people will expect to find, but in this case I think that rule should be ignored.
I don't want to make up a policy about it without getting other opinions though, so we can discuss it here I guess. Adam Bishop 21:55, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
There are two George Millers, both of whom are Australian, are film and television director and producers. The page currently lists both, but I want to separate them out and add the second to George Miller (disambiguation). Any ideas for how to name their respective articles? -- K. AKA Konrad West TALK 06:06, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
See discussion thread at Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation and abbreviations#Lists of Abbreviations and Links to Disambiguation pages. Courtland 17:04, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
Please help to fend off a stubborn anon from a disambiguation page Lenin (disambiguation). mikka (t) 21:48, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
I need some clarification about when to use disambugation vs a link to the alternative page. I was creating a Lost Eden article about an adventure game but realised there is also an upcoming Lost Eden expansion pack for Anarchy Online. Fortunately, the expansion pack already has an article under Lost Eden (Anarchy Online) so there is no conflict. In my article, I placed a link to the AO Lost Eden and did not create a disambiguation page (see my article if confused). I did this because as far as I can tell, there are currently only 2 Lost Edens. There is a work in progress movie link to Lost Eden on someone's talk page but a quick Google doesn't find anything so perhaps this is incorrect, I did come across a Children of the Lost Eden. Was this the correct thing to do? I have seen disambugiation pages with 2 links only before but there are usually names or general phrases which I suppose are more likely to have more then 2 enteries.
Given that I would admit, Lost Eden has never been very well popular or well known and the AO expansion pack is already much more popular and more well known, would it be preferble to make Lost Eden into a disambugation and link to the game (perhaps Lost Eden (adventure game)) and the AO expansion even with only 2 links? Nil Einne 07:12, 28 October 2005 (UTC) P.S. I just noticed the one link does not a disambig make which also supports my theory on 2 links. So it appears the general consensus is I did the right thing I think... Nil Einne 08:21, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
I was looking for Zorro and didn't know how to spell it so got to Zoro by mistake. This pair doesn't rate a dab page, but the two articles should reference each other. Is there a standard template to do that? -- RoySmith 23:27, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Should a disambiguation page be classed as a stub? Cawas and I were discussing whether Filthy should be a stub, and Cawas gave the following example:
Would this be correct? Should you call filthy (were it in the above situation) a stub? Thelb 4 21:45, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
An item on AFD has brought up a dispute on the validity of a disambiguation page containing exclusively redlinks. This isn't covered in the guideline, although redlinks themselves are permitted, and I'd encourage discussion here on whether there should be a policy on it. — Wahoofive ( talk) 16:57, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
I work with the Missing Encyclopedic Articles and am constantly pruning new lists of already existing articles. One of my big pet peeves when I run into a disambig page is that there is seems that there never enough info on the disambiguation page to fully disambiguate who the person was and I have to check several articles just to be sure. Adding the birth and death dates would really help make the disambiguation easier and provide some context for who the person was. Can this info be added into the manual of style of disambig pages? If it is accepted, the conversion could be semi-automated by looking at the Category:1931 births Category:1995 deaths of the article in question. Any input or bot writers to covert the disambig pages would be awesome. -- Reflex Reaction ( talk)• 20:19, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
I was wondering what the policy was on including external links on disamb pages, because there is one on Flat Rock (at least at the time of this writing). - Akamad 23:12, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
The "Lift" example in the guideline does not conform to the MoS, does it? E.g. each line does not start with a link; and other words in the line are also linked. Even if these are valid exceptions (and I don't see why they would be), better to give an example that does not contain exceptions. While I'm at it, is this guideline really the place to be told how to pronounce disambiguation? Nurg 22:14, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
I also don't like the lift example because by adding it, we've specifically added a recommendation (at least an example) that nested lists are to be used for disambiguation pages. Up till now, neither this page nor
MOS:DAB has recommended or allowed nested lists, and in my opinion they should not be used in disambiguation pages. You may argue that it doesn't recommend against them; fine—let it remain that way.
I'm going to find a better example and replace this one. — Michael Z. 2005-12-3 06:27 Z
A good example should have examples of the different types of links (same name, name with "(disambiguation)", similar name, different name plus link, different name plus section link). It should be relatively brief, and contain few or no exceptions to the recommendations. It should be relatively stable. I haven't found a perfect one, but below are some candidates. — Michael Z. 2005-12-3 07:11 Z