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Should this topic be allowed on the main page? Today Featured Article (TFA) director User:Raul654 won't let the Jenna Jameson article on the main page. Now the adult transexual Miki Mizuasa is nominated. Should pornography-related articles be allowed or not? Here's the discussion so far: Royal broil 14:56, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
If we are talking about an internal "DYK policy", I see no reason to take this to the village pump. We're perfectly capable of establishing a policy not to approve porn related hooks right here in this discussion. Nrswanson ( talk) 18:47, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
(deindent) Up to now, I haven't seen an adult article on DYK. What adult articles have appeared on DYK? A few stragglers don't necessarily make a strong precedent anyhow because they may have slipped undetected under most people's radar. The only precedent that I'm aware of it that TFA won't feature an adult article. So precedent says that adult articles aren't normally featured as far as I can tell. Things are gray on how to proceed. Administrators are allowed latitude in gray areas. What you need is black or white so that it doesn't come down to someone's interpretation. The only way to get black or white is to start a discussion. I am certain will be a very ugly discussion if you do and a lot of people on both sides will be hurt and offended. While WP:NOTCENSORED is a policy, it doesn't talk directly to this case, which is why a precedent/discussion is needed if you want to be certain to see the article on DYK. WP:NOTCENSORED is very gray: "Wikipedia may contain content that some readers consider objectionable or offensive". Yes, Wikipedia does contain content that some people would find objectionable. Believe it or not, I don't find the content objectionable. A serious encyclopedia needs to have content of all types. I object to promoting adult content by placing it on the main page. WP:NOTCENSORED then talks about removal of content, which no one is questioning. Nothing in the policy applies to this situation at all. Royal broil 04:51, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
I was asked to comment here about my position vis-a-vis Jenna Jamison as daily FA. As David said, I'm not planning on scheduling it, because I don't want to deal with the inevitable controversy that would erupt. The decision is mine, and it is discretionary -- I decided of my own volition not to run it, not because of any particular policy. Nor is my position set in stone -- I may change my mind at some point in the future. But for the time being, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Raul654 ( talk) 16:02, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
People don't propose a lot of porn articles for DYK, featured pictures, GA, FA, etc., so how about a temporary compromise to test the reaction? I think almost everyone agrees a DYK from hardcore pornography would be gauche and create a lot of time-wasting debate and ire, and be bad for our image. Here is the compromise: If a pornography-related topic goes beyond the bounds of pornography, then it is suitable. Under that, Jenna Jameson would qualify since she has a very diverse career, and possibly may crossover completely, and more successfully from another person whose career would qualify them for DYK - Traci Lords, or Sasha Grey). I learned a lesson when the right-wing media launched a campaign against my photographs for the pornography-related topics. It went nowhere. Nobody cared, despite the best efforts of Concerned Women for America (whose spokesperson is ironically a man). A conservative blogger who received an e-mail from a certain someone railing against me even responded that it should be no surprise to anyone that an encyclopedia article about pornography would have an example. Then he wrote me to let me know. Then that conservative sought me out and expressed his feelings that it was censorship. This Los Angles Times article confirms what I learned from the experience with the 14 photos (out of thousands) I took to illustrate the topics ( Fluffer received the most attention, surprisingly). The same trend of porn going mainstream is reported about in the UK. Reasonable minds could differ, but porn is free, widely available, and widely watched over the net. So...the compromise:
If a person or topic is primarily porn-related, but that person or subject has also gone to be notable beyond pornography, the article is acceptable for DYK, but only if the non-pornography aspect of the subject is featured.
The non-porn trivia is likely less know, and it may be problematic with WP:NPOV to tar people who have done multiple things outside adult film as unfit to ever be on the main page because of that work. Jameson has a mainstream career. She has also I do think both sides have valid views, but I think the pro-Jameson side has to be particularly careful how they present it if it's decided it's suitable. Baby steps. --David Shankbone 09:25, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
-- So, what you're saying is, that we should have an innocent hook about a person, then when a kid clicks on it they will find out about the surprising porn career of that subject? I think that idea has to be a non-starter IMHO. Malick78 ( talk) 09:52, 15 November 2008 (UTC)If a person or topic is primarily porn-related, but that person or subject has also gone to be notable beyond pornography, the article is acceptable for DYK, but only if the non-pornography aspect of the subject is featured.
Many people are offended by religious beliefs that differ from their own. Will we therefore be banning religion-related articles from DYK? Won't somebody please think of the children?! — David Levy 11:28, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
I had nominated Operation LAC and Operation Steel Box yesterday but don't see them on the suggestions page anymore, and it doesn't appear they were used. I know they are close to expiring and I didn't nominate them right away, so maybe you didn't want to use them, but I was curious as to where they went, perhaps accidentally deleted? -- IvoShandor ( talk) 22:34, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
This hook has taken on a life of its own. Wizardman promoted it to the Next Update, and Nrswanson, who has been opposed to it from the outset, immediately removed it from the Next Update. See [1] Based on the discussion above, consensus seemed to be there is no rule that would support blanket censorship of the subject matter. Yet, as soon as one DYK admin nominated it, another removed it. Having said there is no rule supporting blanket censorship, one user is now imposing his own will on the community. That is wrong. Cbl62 ( talk) 04:56, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
If a third-party independent editor has already reviewed someone's hook and marked it with verify with the tickmark as appropriate, is it okay for the hook-nominator to themselves then add their verified hook to Template:Did you know/Next update? Cirt ( talk) 08:41, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
I have read these latest points by Lar ( talk · contribs), Royalbroil ( talk · contribs), Olaf Davis ( talk · contribs), and Gatoclass ( talk · contribs), and I have to say I agree with everything you have all said. But Gatoclass brings up a good point. Sometimes there is no one else around, or no one else actively preparing the next update, and there will be times where I have self-nom (and verified) hooks of my own sitting at T:TDYK, and I will, under this notion expressed above by Lar, have to pass over my self-nom hook(s), perhaps even looking ahead a few days, whilst in the process of filling the 5 Queues (because it is neat to see these all active and working quite well with this process established by Ameliorate! ( talk · contribs)). If consensus is determined to oppose this, given this rationale as pointed out by Gatoclass, I will respect that and not object. Cirt ( talk) 08:42, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) I haven't been paying attention lately and I missed this whole discussion, but I just wanted to add that, in addition to other reasons that have been given in favor of having separate people do the uploading, there is also the issue that the person verifying the hook maybe shouldn't have verified it, and having a third person do the uploading is a good way to guard against that. I'm not meaning to imply that reviewers suck...rather, for me at least, I often get involved in a situation where I'm negotiating a hook with the nominator for some time, exchanging messages and discussing things, and by the time that is over I still verify or reject it but I might be a little too much involved then for my verification to be as trustworthy as usual; in cases like that, it really benefits to have an outside person do the uploading, rather than letting the nominator do it, since the nom wasn't really verified by a "third-party independent editor" but by an editor who is only human and tries real hard but sometimes does stupid stuff anyway. — Politizer talk/ contribs 04:55, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Let's just vote and move on with respect to the Mizuasa hook. Nrswanson suggests a vote. Accordingly, I propose that Wizardman's promotion of the following hook be reinstated, and that in so doing that it sets no precedent, and does not limit DYK discretion to reject future hooks if they are deemed to be crude or inappropriate. I deleted the word "pre-operative" in case anyone considers that objectionable.
wth happened to the suggestion page?
Simply south ( talk) 13:07, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Several chunks of Tata Corus acquisition seem to be copied almost verbatim from here, particularly the second section ("The Tata Corus deal, once through, will bring Tata Steels to fifth position ..." to "... Jindal of Jindal Steel and Power Limited made initial plans to acquire it.") third section ("...beat notorious cyclical nature of steel industry..." through "...by bringing down the cost structure company plans to raise its bottom lines" to "Another crucial aspect of the deal was the product mix" and "thus giving thrust to the bottom line, in a highly competitive industry.") and the first paragraph of the sixth section ("Tata Steel had decided that the acquisition would be financed through "own funds and debt" " to "Tata Steel’s debt-equity ratio is currently 0.3 thus giving enough room for the company to raise debt").
The article itself is pretty poor, with obvious typos in the first sentence, and includes parts that were clearly written before the offer was completed in early 2007 (see above - "once through"). I suspect some other parts may be lifted from press releases and the like.
I found the copyvio by putting a couple of sentences into Google. Shouldn't the DYK approval process include such simple checks? -- Testing times ( talk) 12:08, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Last summer, I started a sandbox page User:Cbl62/sandbox3 to track the most viewed DYK hooks on a month-by-month basis using Henrik's page view tool. Though I've neglected it in the last couple months, BorgQueen has been diligently updating it. The Top 10 all-time are set forth below. I continue to think a permanent page, which other could help maintain, would be useful in demonstrating the types of hooks that work best in drawing readers to new articles, and would also to serve as an incentive for nominators to come up with more interesting hooks. Do others think that a permanent page would be helpful? Cbl62 ( talk) 22:51, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Per Politizer's suggestion, here's a list of the all-time top hooks that were not featured in the main photo slot. Cbl62 ( talk) 06:19, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
I was wondering whether history links from Template:Did you know should be added to all subsequent templates which inform users (both on their user talk pages and the artcles' talk pages) which fact was added to the DYK area. I know that this might be a lot of work oh no not pasta but it may be useful to people. Simply south ( talk) 19:20, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Just a quickie ... on the current Queue 5 (the one with the siphon), would an admin be so kind as to put a non-breaking space between the "Art" and the "Deco" of "Art Deco" in the Crawley buildings hook? It goes across two lines on my browser and looks peculiar. I should have included it when I typed the hook originally – sorry! Danke, Hassocks 5489 (tickets please!) 23:28, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Please see the discussion. Thanks. – How do you turn this on ( talk) 23:44, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
DYKBot ( talk · contribs) is now in a 7-day trial to do the credits ( BRFA #2). I've gone through all the queues and got them ready for the bot and added instructions inside hidden comments on the clear page. I've created more in-depth instructions at User:DYKBot/credits, mostly its not that big of a change just a few things that have to be remembered. The bot is not adding hooks at this stage though as it's too unreliable. ~ User:Ameliorate! (with the !) ( talk) 01:40, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
OK, I decided to be bold and move the Best of DYK to a permanent spot here:
Wikipedia:DYKBEST. I also tried adding to add it to the Template, but it doesn't seem to have taken. If someone can fix the template to make it fit right after DYKLIST, we can give it a try on an provisional basis and see what people think. I also manged to add it to the Template on a trial basis. If there's a consensus that it's not helpful, we can always dump it.
Cbl62 (
talk)
06:50, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Talk:17th Panzer Division &....? — Ed 17 (Talk / Contribs) 05:53, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Why is DYKBot inserting % instead of brackets? Eg: this one, in BorgQueen's signature. Chamal talk 14:33, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
I had a question about a nom I just reviewed; I'll copy it here just for fun:
WP:RSN is probably a better place to get feedback on this sort of thing. Cirt ( talk) 21:40, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
Just in case anyone out there is using this template a lot, I just wanted to let you know there have been some changes that will affect how you use it. First of all, it no longer includes a section header automatically, so now when you use it on a talk page you'll have to either create a section header or use the "new message" button (rather than "edit this page"). This has the annoying side-effect of making you have to type out a section heading, but the benefit of making you not have to type an edit summary if you use "new section" (although personally I find making an edit summary faster and easier than making a section heading, but oh well). Also, it doesn't automatically sign anymore; you have to type ~~~~ like you would when calling a warning template or (as far as I know) just about every other usertalk namespace template.
Also, the way it links to the DYK nomination is different. It used to link to the section for that day; now that How do you turn this on has been implementing level-4 section headers for each entry, the template now links directly to the individual entry (assuming that you type the article name in the template call exactly as it appears on the DYK suggestions page). Of course, for the old noms that don't have section headings this means it won't link anywhere, but oh well, people will survive.
If you've been calling the template without parameters anyway, this last thing won't really effect you. But if you've been using parameters, it's nice because you don't need to enter the date anymore; {{subst:DYKproblem|Article name}}
does everything (and there's still a 2nd parameter for an optional message to replace "thank you for contributing to DYK," of course). I'm working on adding an optional "date=" parameter for if people for some crazy reason want to link to the date subsection on T:TDYK instead of linking directly to the nomination, but I'm having issues with it right now. —
Politizer
talk/
contribs
04:13, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
(Jumping into the discussion since I was mentioned) I don't know why there should be skepticism about ancient/medieval Chinese sources other than on the issues of historians' biases. We don't "unreliabilize" information that we get from Tacitus or Suetonius even though they are clearly biased. To the extent that someone may disagree with my reading of the original, people can put in alternative readings where justified. -- Nlu ( talk) 02:58, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
Since we seem to be phasing in Hdytto's thing of having each DYK nom in its own 4th-level subsection on the suggestions page, could we modify the edit notice (which currently has a message about the queue system and not re-adding your hook) to say something, in big letters, about the new format and how nominators should put their new hook in a section? I tried Template talk:Did you know/Editnotice but that doesn't exist, so I guess the T:TDYK edit notice works differently than user talk edit notices.
And while we're at that, this may be a good time to think about implementing something Ameliorate (I believe) mentioned above when discussing a credits bot...a template for DYK noms. (It could have numbered parameters for the article name and hook, and named parameters for creator/expanders and nominator.) That would help with the new layout of the suggestions page because, as we know, sometimes people are dumb (or just human) and format things weird when they nominate their hook...I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people nominating their hooks under the new layout accidentally make a 3rd- or 2nd-level section heading instead of a 4th, or just make a typo that screws up the sections, or something like that...and it would be a lot of extra work for us to clean up after it. So having a template to avoid that stuff would help...and it seems like having that in a template would be useful anyway for automating things (although I can't remember exactly what...actually maybe it wouldn't be useful for automating things, since it would probably be subst'ed).
As a side note...I know setting this stuff up would be extra work now, but I think it's worth it, because I think Hdytto's new setup is nice. For one thing, it makes it easier for us reviewers to comment on an individual nom (before this, I was doing a lot of scrolling up and down to get to the section edit button), and will cut back on edit conflicts...and it just makes things tidier. Also, this is somewhat selfish, but it makes {{ DYKproblem}}, my baby, work a lot more nicely. (addition) And it makes the history more easily searchable, if you're trying to find when a particular hook was deleted or something like that, assuming that people use section editing. — Politizer talk/ contribs 04:37, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Here's the editnotice link: MediaWiki:Editnotice-11-Did_you_know ~ User:Ameliorate! (with the !) ( talk) 05:35, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
{{subst:DYKsuggestion | article = Example | hook = ...that '''[[Example]]''' ''(pictured)'' is an article being used to try out a [[WP:Template|template]] called {{tl|DYKsuggestion}}? | creator = Politizer | expander = | expander2 = | expander3 = | nominator = | movedtomainspace = | image = Example.png }} ~~~~
As you can see, what the nominator actually has to type is basically the same as what they have to type now...but I admit that seeing it as a template might be intimidating. Also, I wanted to bring up the issue of subst'ing...if you subst this is gets REALLY ugly (lots of stuff like {{#if:{{{creator|}}}| [[User:{{{creator}}}|{{{creator}}}]].}})—fortunately the hook itself doesn't get messy, but still the nominators and creators and yada yada get buried under all that syntax. If you don't subst, stuff stays pretty neat, although it will take up a lot of room in the edit window (although that shouldn't be a huge issue if people will be using section editing). —
Politizer
talk/
contribs
05:43, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
I don't think we need a message in the notice. People so far are all following the format fine, so I don't think it's necessary. I love the template - I left a message on the talk page suggesting why it edits the template and not the section when it's posted.
We would need to put this template in the edit header at least for a while - it's quite big, and should be there to easily copy, as Mattisse says, it can be quite complicated. – How do you turn this on ( talk) 14:37, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Hi all. Thanks for all the great work you do in keeping DYK up and running. I was wondering if someone could help me figure out a bit of a puzzle. Hittin was nominated for a DYK (a co-nom of myself, User:Huldra and User:Al Ameer son. I think it did actually appear ont he DYK page sometime in the last 24 hours. But ... no tags were distributed. Not to the article page and not out to the co-noms. Is there a glitch in the new system when it comes to multiple notifications? Anyone know what happened or how to find out? Your help is appreciated. Tiamut talk 22:58, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
I just made some redirects if we need to link to the queues currently waiting. At the moment the normal address is a bit long. (might be useful in cases such as above). T:DYK/Q1, T:DYK/Q2, T:DYK/Q3, T:DYK/Q4, T:DYK/Q5. If they are useless, feel free to destroy them, I just thought it may be useful. \ / ( ⁂) 23:14, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
I am not sure that this is the right place to report this, in that case, please tell me where to go.
Currently there is a reference to Lucius Aurelius Avianius Symmachus in Template:Did you know/Queue/5, whose text is "that enraged plebs burned down the home of Lucius Aurelius Avianius Symmachus because of a rumor that he was "slak[ing] lime with wine"?" This is however incorrect, as the rumor was that he (had) said that he would have rather preferred slaking lime with wine, rather than selling it (the wine) at the price the plebs wanted.
I hope someone could fix this.
Bye, -- TakenakaN ( talk) 01:57, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
I'm a bit concerned about several of the recent DYK's created by User:Billy Hathorn that have been allowed on the main page. Take a look at these The Californians (TV series) (not a single good resource), The Roy Rogers and Dale Evans Show (several shady refs), The Greatest Show on Earth (TV series), (more of the same issues), Roger Mobley (the main source is the subjects own website), Window on the Plains Museum (resource 3?), and Don Collier (similar issues). I investigated this because I have declined DYKs for this user before for using IMDB and I was wondering why he kept on submitting articles with that as a source. Now I know. Although I think we need to have a talk with Billy, the more pressing concern here is a lack of consistancy among our reviewers. How can we expect good submissions from regular contributors like Billy if we don't enforce our own policies? Nrswanson ( talk) 03:01, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
using a link to the discussion. That might motivate him to resolve the discussion or at least clue the DYK reviewer into looking into the article more thoroughly. Perhaps we can have a bot programmed to make such posts, with an admin adding and removing names to the bot post list as needed. -- Suntag ☼ 07:45, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
An unresolved discussion was started on Wikipedia talk:Did you know about this editor's recent DYK post.
Some very great comments! I think it's important to encourage submitters AND to encourage reviewers... so there's a difficult balance here. There's also WP:AGF to keep in mind! That said, if we have nominators that we agree are consistently producing (or at least have a tendency to produce) problematic nominations, I wonder if it makes sense to note that somehow, as an aid to reviewers. We want to do it in a sensitive way, but maybe a list of "currently on probation" at the top of the nom page or something? Because I agree... Billy's enthusiastic but some of his noms are problematic, take significant time to resolve, and sending mixed messages (which can confuse the issue) may not be the best way to proceed... all reviewers need awareness to reduce that, as improving our consistency in applying standards is goodness. Balance that against WP:BURO of course! ++ Lar: t/ c 13:37, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
So what does the community propose? If he won't follow policy, is this blockable? Otherwise the community is left working on this undoing every substandard edit one by one. — Rlevse • Talk • 10:48, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
I used the IMDB for the articles on 1960s TV shows for the factual content. I did not use opinion inserted occasionally by readers. I don't think IMDB allows readers to change the factual material. The articles that I have written on the old show are of highest quality and were checked carefully for accuracy. I cannot imagine what the dispute is about. I used what material that I had. Compare these articles with other submissions on the old TV series. Billy Hathorn ( talk) 04:41, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Brown Mountain forest's DYK is scheduled to be shown on DYK at midnight to 8am, Australian Eastern Standard Time. ( Template:Did you know/Queue/4). Can it be delayed for 8 hours so it can be seen by people living in Australia? I'd change it myself but I don't want to mess with the queues. — Pengo 09:25, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
This thread got me thinking. Now that the admin bot is doing the Main Page postings, article appearances on the Main Page can be predicted to be in one of four UTC timeslots: 0 timeslot (00:00-04:00), 4 timeslot (04:00-12:00), 12 timeslot (12:00-18:00), and 18 timeslot (18:00-24:00). Perhaps we can offer nominators an option to request either a 0 timeslot, 6 timeslot, 12 timeslot, or 18 timeslot based on when they think their DYK hook target audience will be viewing the Main Page (e.g., morning or after work in the evening). For example, I have a DYK hook pending that might be of interest to those in South Korea. It now is 4 AM in South Korea [2] and about 19 UTC, so I would not want 18 timeslot for my DYK hook. With my DYK hook nom, I would have posted something like "0 timeslot or 4 timeslot requested" or "timeslot request: 0, 4". As BorgQueen notes above, such requests cannot be accommodated sometimes (Such as for the 18 timeslot when most of the United States is awake). However, this might be a good way to make better use of DYK's portion of the Main Page. We can even create a table such as "If your DYK hook target audience lives in xxx, recommended DYK timeslots are xxx." If the DYK nominator doesn't care about the timeslot, then they need not post any timeslot request. -- Suntag ☼ 19:41, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Anyone ever heard of Wikipedia:Today's second feature? It has a bunch of subpages that redirect to Template:Did you know. Maybe some of Today's second feature should be tagged historical and the rest deleted. -- Suntag ☼ 17:37, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
{{CURRENTYEAR}}
, {{CURRENTMONTHNAME}}
, and {{CURRENTDAY}}
. I do not know how many Wikipedians are still using that and
Wikipedia:Main Page alternative (Classic 2006) as their
main page alternative, and
using it as their default page. Therefore, I do not recommend a full deletion at this time unless someone is willing to rework all of this "
spaghetti code". Cheers.
Zzyzx11
(Talk)
06:59, 27 November 2008 (UTC)A few days ago I mentioned an experimental template that I was working on for making DYK nominations. Well, thanks to help from How do you turn this on, Backslash Forwardslash, Lifebaka, and especially thanks to Ameliorate! for his/her ingenious solution, the template has been saved from the brink of certain death and, while probably not in good enough shape yet to be used for nominations, is at least in good enough shape for me to show other people. So, without further ado, here is the counterintuitively named {{ DYKsug}} (I avoided names like DYKnomination because that might cause confusion with {{ DYKnom}}, which is already taken and is very widely used)...
Here's the code that nominators would copy and paste into the edit window when they make their nom:
{{subst:DYKsug
| article = Article name
| article2 =
| article3 =
| article4 =
| article5 =
| hook = ... that ...
| creator =
| expander =
| expander2 =
| expander3 =
| nominator =
| movedtomainspace =
| image =
| ALT1 =
| ALT2 =
}}
Here's what it would produce if you nominated two articles and specified an article creator, a date it was moved to mainspace, an image, and an alternate hook:
And here's what the code it leaves behind would look like (ie, the code that reviewers and promoters would have to deal with):
====[[Example]], [[Hook]]====
{{DYKsuggestion
| hook = ... that this '''[[hook]]''' is just an '''[[example]]'''?
| creator = Politizer
| expander =
| expander2 =
| expander3 =
| nominator =
| movedtomainspace = November 25
| image = Example.png
| ALT1 = ... that this '''[[hook]]''', which is an '''[[example]]''', is great?
| ALT2 =
}}
You'll notice that it copied over some empty parameters (the expander and nominator parameters, and ALT2, which the nominator chose not to specify). One thing I'm currently working on is to use stuff like <includeonly>subst:</includeonly>#if: so that when you call {{ DYKsug}} it only copies over the parameters that are actually used, and doesn't clutter up T:TDYK so much.
Anyway, there's how things are right now. I'll post another message if there are any mega developments later. If anyone has comments or feedback on what's good or bad about this template, whether or not it will be useful for us, or things that you think it needs, I would be glad to hear from you! — Politizer talk/ contribs 05:43, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Politizer and I are in the process of testing Template:DYKsug on Template talk:Did you know. Basically, that means taking existing DYK noms and placing them into {{ DYKsug}} using one of the suggested strings. You can help by switching existing noms into {{ DYKsug}} and reporting any problems or suggestions at Template talk:DYKsuggestion. Thanks. -- Suntag ☼ 21:40, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
So that people can find their DYK noms once removed from the vetting section of Template talk:Did you know, I transcluded the queues to the bottom of Template talk:Did you know. -- Suntag ☼ 11:44, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
I reformatted Template_talk:Did_you_know#Instructions to make it more reader friendly. -- Suntag ☼ 12:53, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Why is the note regarding US-related topics required on the next update/clear page? It's wrong for a start; there's often hardly any US topics. And US topics is a very vague term indeed. I don't see any point in having such a message there. It's been removed, and readded a few times. I'd like to know what purpose it really serves, and if it's actually necessary. I'm sure the admins dealing with this are careful to choose a variety of topics in a fair way. – How do you turn this on ( talk) 00:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Do we have a prior discussion (I couldn't find any) about requiring a wikiproject banner on a DYK article's Talk page? Though this would be "instruction creep", here are my thoughts:
The next queue is empty, and I have to go offline soon. Can someone fill the next update and copy it to the queue please? (Please be extra careful with the new credit format.) -- BorgQueen ( talk) 12:10, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
With the DYKbot on, the DYK Clock may never get to turn red because our DYK updating is too slow. Instead, perhaps we can make it turn red when all five DYK Queue templates are empty? And maybe yellow when there are more than three empty ones? No clue how to do this, but I thought I should share this idea with fellow DYKsters. Just a thought at this time. Cheers. -- PFHLai ( talk) 18:09, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
These are all great ideas. Cirt ( talk) 21:38, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
{{DYKbotdo}}
. It would be possible to create a new template such as {{Did you know/queues|1|-|3|-|5}} (1, 3, 5 are done, 2 and 4 aren't). Then when the next queue is filled that template could be updated. ~
User:Ameliorate! (with the !) (
talk)
02:00, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
MPUploadBot has been blocked because it was too unreliable. Images will need to be protected manually, the safest way to do that is to protect the image when the hooks are added to the queue. ~ User:Ameliorate! (with the !) ( talk) 00:15, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
The bot doesn't seem to be working at the moment, so I've updated manually since it was more than 30 minutes overdue. Can someone do the credits please? -- BorgQueen ( talk) 09:20, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
I just read all the new DYK pages and I had a blast seeing how organized things are now. Unfortunately, I can no longer find an automated script one can install to monobook.js for automating credit giving. Can anyone point me to that script? - Mgm| (talk) 12:18, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
Is it possible to get the bot to update every 6 hours instead of every 6 hours and 5 minutes and put it on a schedule to update at 0:00, 6:00, 12:00, and 18:00.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 08:19, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
There have been rumblings now and then of how we should notify users when their noms get promoted, so that they don't get confused when their nom disappears and have to go searching through all the queues, or worse, re-add their nom. I think Suntag's idea of transcluding the queues at the bottom of T:TDYK helps, since now promoted noms still come up when someone searches the page in their browser. But just in case people think something still needs to be done.... here are the two main suggestions I've heard a lot:
Option 1 would mean that the promoter would have extra clicking to do, and it would clutter up the user talk pages of people who are prolific nominators. Option 2 would require that someone pay close enough attention to the template-flipping to know when to remove a nom from T:TDYK, since you wouldn't be able to just delete it while moving to Next like we do now.
I am not endorsing either one more than the other, and I think both have their ups and downs, but if anyone is interested in exploring option 2, I made a sample of how it might work... there would be a new parameter, |promoted=
, in the suggestion template we use now, and it would default to "no." Then, when an editor is promoting the nom, he/she would just enter "yes" for that parameter (should be easy, as he/she will already have the edit window open for grabbing the hook, etc.); after saving the page, it would put the hook and nominator/expander/creator names in a pretty box, blank the rest of the content (image, discussion, verification) using <div style="display: none;">, and leave a big message saying "This nomination has been promoted to the queue." To see what it all looks like, go
here.
The reason I have made a sample of this and not of option 1 (sending users a message) is because option 1 is very easy to make a template for and I assume we can all imagine in our heads more or less what it would look like. — Politizer talk/ contribs 17:16, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 30 | ← | Archive 32 | Archive 33 | Archive 34 | Archive 35 | Archive 36 | → | Archive 40 |
Should this topic be allowed on the main page? Today Featured Article (TFA) director User:Raul654 won't let the Jenna Jameson article on the main page. Now the adult transexual Miki Mizuasa is nominated. Should pornography-related articles be allowed or not? Here's the discussion so far: Royal broil 14:56, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
If we are talking about an internal "DYK policy", I see no reason to take this to the village pump. We're perfectly capable of establishing a policy not to approve porn related hooks right here in this discussion. Nrswanson ( talk) 18:47, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
(deindent) Up to now, I haven't seen an adult article on DYK. What adult articles have appeared on DYK? A few stragglers don't necessarily make a strong precedent anyhow because they may have slipped undetected under most people's radar. The only precedent that I'm aware of it that TFA won't feature an adult article. So precedent says that adult articles aren't normally featured as far as I can tell. Things are gray on how to proceed. Administrators are allowed latitude in gray areas. What you need is black or white so that it doesn't come down to someone's interpretation. The only way to get black or white is to start a discussion. I am certain will be a very ugly discussion if you do and a lot of people on both sides will be hurt and offended. While WP:NOTCENSORED is a policy, it doesn't talk directly to this case, which is why a precedent/discussion is needed if you want to be certain to see the article on DYK. WP:NOTCENSORED is very gray: "Wikipedia may contain content that some readers consider objectionable or offensive". Yes, Wikipedia does contain content that some people would find objectionable. Believe it or not, I don't find the content objectionable. A serious encyclopedia needs to have content of all types. I object to promoting adult content by placing it on the main page. WP:NOTCENSORED then talks about removal of content, which no one is questioning. Nothing in the policy applies to this situation at all. Royal broil 04:51, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
I was asked to comment here about my position vis-a-vis Jenna Jamison as daily FA. As David said, I'm not planning on scheduling it, because I don't want to deal with the inevitable controversy that would erupt. The decision is mine, and it is discretionary -- I decided of my own volition not to run it, not because of any particular policy. Nor is my position set in stone -- I may change my mind at some point in the future. But for the time being, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Raul654 ( talk) 16:02, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
People don't propose a lot of porn articles for DYK, featured pictures, GA, FA, etc., so how about a temporary compromise to test the reaction? I think almost everyone agrees a DYK from hardcore pornography would be gauche and create a lot of time-wasting debate and ire, and be bad for our image. Here is the compromise: If a pornography-related topic goes beyond the bounds of pornography, then it is suitable. Under that, Jenna Jameson would qualify since she has a very diverse career, and possibly may crossover completely, and more successfully from another person whose career would qualify them for DYK - Traci Lords, or Sasha Grey). I learned a lesson when the right-wing media launched a campaign against my photographs for the pornography-related topics. It went nowhere. Nobody cared, despite the best efforts of Concerned Women for America (whose spokesperson is ironically a man). A conservative blogger who received an e-mail from a certain someone railing against me even responded that it should be no surprise to anyone that an encyclopedia article about pornography would have an example. Then he wrote me to let me know. Then that conservative sought me out and expressed his feelings that it was censorship. This Los Angles Times article confirms what I learned from the experience with the 14 photos (out of thousands) I took to illustrate the topics ( Fluffer received the most attention, surprisingly). The same trend of porn going mainstream is reported about in the UK. Reasonable minds could differ, but porn is free, widely available, and widely watched over the net. So...the compromise:
If a person or topic is primarily porn-related, but that person or subject has also gone to be notable beyond pornography, the article is acceptable for DYK, but only if the non-pornography aspect of the subject is featured.
The non-porn trivia is likely less know, and it may be problematic with WP:NPOV to tar people who have done multiple things outside adult film as unfit to ever be on the main page because of that work. Jameson has a mainstream career. She has also I do think both sides have valid views, but I think the pro-Jameson side has to be particularly careful how they present it if it's decided it's suitable. Baby steps. --David Shankbone 09:25, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
-- So, what you're saying is, that we should have an innocent hook about a person, then when a kid clicks on it they will find out about the surprising porn career of that subject? I think that idea has to be a non-starter IMHO. Malick78 ( talk) 09:52, 15 November 2008 (UTC)If a person or topic is primarily porn-related, but that person or subject has also gone to be notable beyond pornography, the article is acceptable for DYK, but only if the non-pornography aspect of the subject is featured.
Many people are offended by religious beliefs that differ from their own. Will we therefore be banning religion-related articles from DYK? Won't somebody please think of the children?! — David Levy 11:28, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
I had nominated Operation LAC and Operation Steel Box yesterday but don't see them on the suggestions page anymore, and it doesn't appear they were used. I know they are close to expiring and I didn't nominate them right away, so maybe you didn't want to use them, but I was curious as to where they went, perhaps accidentally deleted? -- IvoShandor ( talk) 22:34, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
This hook has taken on a life of its own. Wizardman promoted it to the Next Update, and Nrswanson, who has been opposed to it from the outset, immediately removed it from the Next Update. See [1] Based on the discussion above, consensus seemed to be there is no rule that would support blanket censorship of the subject matter. Yet, as soon as one DYK admin nominated it, another removed it. Having said there is no rule supporting blanket censorship, one user is now imposing his own will on the community. That is wrong. Cbl62 ( talk) 04:56, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
If a third-party independent editor has already reviewed someone's hook and marked it with verify with the tickmark as appropriate, is it okay for the hook-nominator to themselves then add their verified hook to Template:Did you know/Next update? Cirt ( talk) 08:41, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
I have read these latest points by Lar ( talk · contribs), Royalbroil ( talk · contribs), Olaf Davis ( talk · contribs), and Gatoclass ( talk · contribs), and I have to say I agree with everything you have all said. But Gatoclass brings up a good point. Sometimes there is no one else around, or no one else actively preparing the next update, and there will be times where I have self-nom (and verified) hooks of my own sitting at T:TDYK, and I will, under this notion expressed above by Lar, have to pass over my self-nom hook(s), perhaps even looking ahead a few days, whilst in the process of filling the 5 Queues (because it is neat to see these all active and working quite well with this process established by Ameliorate! ( talk · contribs)). If consensus is determined to oppose this, given this rationale as pointed out by Gatoclass, I will respect that and not object. Cirt ( talk) 08:42, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) I haven't been paying attention lately and I missed this whole discussion, but I just wanted to add that, in addition to other reasons that have been given in favor of having separate people do the uploading, there is also the issue that the person verifying the hook maybe shouldn't have verified it, and having a third person do the uploading is a good way to guard against that. I'm not meaning to imply that reviewers suck...rather, for me at least, I often get involved in a situation where I'm negotiating a hook with the nominator for some time, exchanging messages and discussing things, and by the time that is over I still verify or reject it but I might be a little too much involved then for my verification to be as trustworthy as usual; in cases like that, it really benefits to have an outside person do the uploading, rather than letting the nominator do it, since the nom wasn't really verified by a "third-party independent editor" but by an editor who is only human and tries real hard but sometimes does stupid stuff anyway. — Politizer talk/ contribs 04:55, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Let's just vote and move on with respect to the Mizuasa hook. Nrswanson suggests a vote. Accordingly, I propose that Wizardman's promotion of the following hook be reinstated, and that in so doing that it sets no precedent, and does not limit DYK discretion to reject future hooks if they are deemed to be crude or inappropriate. I deleted the word "pre-operative" in case anyone considers that objectionable.
wth happened to the suggestion page?
Simply south ( talk) 13:07, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Several chunks of Tata Corus acquisition seem to be copied almost verbatim from here, particularly the second section ("The Tata Corus deal, once through, will bring Tata Steels to fifth position ..." to "... Jindal of Jindal Steel and Power Limited made initial plans to acquire it.") third section ("...beat notorious cyclical nature of steel industry..." through "...by bringing down the cost structure company plans to raise its bottom lines" to "Another crucial aspect of the deal was the product mix" and "thus giving thrust to the bottom line, in a highly competitive industry.") and the first paragraph of the sixth section ("Tata Steel had decided that the acquisition would be financed through "own funds and debt" " to "Tata Steel’s debt-equity ratio is currently 0.3 thus giving enough room for the company to raise debt").
The article itself is pretty poor, with obvious typos in the first sentence, and includes parts that were clearly written before the offer was completed in early 2007 (see above - "once through"). I suspect some other parts may be lifted from press releases and the like.
I found the copyvio by putting a couple of sentences into Google. Shouldn't the DYK approval process include such simple checks? -- Testing times ( talk) 12:08, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Last summer, I started a sandbox page User:Cbl62/sandbox3 to track the most viewed DYK hooks on a month-by-month basis using Henrik's page view tool. Though I've neglected it in the last couple months, BorgQueen has been diligently updating it. The Top 10 all-time are set forth below. I continue to think a permanent page, which other could help maintain, would be useful in demonstrating the types of hooks that work best in drawing readers to new articles, and would also to serve as an incentive for nominators to come up with more interesting hooks. Do others think that a permanent page would be helpful? Cbl62 ( talk) 22:51, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Per Politizer's suggestion, here's a list of the all-time top hooks that were not featured in the main photo slot. Cbl62 ( talk) 06:19, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
I was wondering whether history links from Template:Did you know should be added to all subsequent templates which inform users (both on their user talk pages and the artcles' talk pages) which fact was added to the DYK area. I know that this might be a lot of work oh no not pasta but it may be useful to people. Simply south ( talk) 19:20, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Just a quickie ... on the current Queue 5 (the one with the siphon), would an admin be so kind as to put a non-breaking space between the "Art" and the "Deco" of "Art Deco" in the Crawley buildings hook? It goes across two lines on my browser and looks peculiar. I should have included it when I typed the hook originally – sorry! Danke, Hassocks 5489 (tickets please!) 23:28, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Please see the discussion. Thanks. – How do you turn this on ( talk) 23:44, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
DYKBot ( talk · contribs) is now in a 7-day trial to do the credits ( BRFA #2). I've gone through all the queues and got them ready for the bot and added instructions inside hidden comments on the clear page. I've created more in-depth instructions at User:DYKBot/credits, mostly its not that big of a change just a few things that have to be remembered. The bot is not adding hooks at this stage though as it's too unreliable. ~ User:Ameliorate! (with the !) ( talk) 01:40, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
OK, I decided to be bold and move the Best of DYK to a permanent spot here:
Wikipedia:DYKBEST. I also tried adding to add it to the Template, but it doesn't seem to have taken. If someone can fix the template to make it fit right after DYKLIST, we can give it a try on an provisional basis and see what people think. I also manged to add it to the Template on a trial basis. If there's a consensus that it's not helpful, we can always dump it.
Cbl62 (
talk)
06:50, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Talk:17th Panzer Division &....? — Ed 17 (Talk / Contribs) 05:53, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Why is DYKBot inserting % instead of brackets? Eg: this one, in BorgQueen's signature. Chamal talk 14:33, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
I had a question about a nom I just reviewed; I'll copy it here just for fun:
WP:RSN is probably a better place to get feedback on this sort of thing. Cirt ( talk) 21:40, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
Just in case anyone out there is using this template a lot, I just wanted to let you know there have been some changes that will affect how you use it. First of all, it no longer includes a section header automatically, so now when you use it on a talk page you'll have to either create a section header or use the "new message" button (rather than "edit this page"). This has the annoying side-effect of making you have to type out a section heading, but the benefit of making you not have to type an edit summary if you use "new section" (although personally I find making an edit summary faster and easier than making a section heading, but oh well). Also, it doesn't automatically sign anymore; you have to type ~~~~ like you would when calling a warning template or (as far as I know) just about every other usertalk namespace template.
Also, the way it links to the DYK nomination is different. It used to link to the section for that day; now that How do you turn this on has been implementing level-4 section headers for each entry, the template now links directly to the individual entry (assuming that you type the article name in the template call exactly as it appears on the DYK suggestions page). Of course, for the old noms that don't have section headings this means it won't link anywhere, but oh well, people will survive.
If you've been calling the template without parameters anyway, this last thing won't really effect you. But if you've been using parameters, it's nice because you don't need to enter the date anymore; {{subst:DYKproblem|Article name}}
does everything (and there's still a 2nd parameter for an optional message to replace "thank you for contributing to DYK," of course). I'm working on adding an optional "date=" parameter for if people for some crazy reason want to link to the date subsection on T:TDYK instead of linking directly to the nomination, but I'm having issues with it right now. —
Politizer
talk/
contribs
04:13, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
(Jumping into the discussion since I was mentioned) I don't know why there should be skepticism about ancient/medieval Chinese sources other than on the issues of historians' biases. We don't "unreliabilize" information that we get from Tacitus or Suetonius even though they are clearly biased. To the extent that someone may disagree with my reading of the original, people can put in alternative readings where justified. -- Nlu ( talk) 02:58, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
Since we seem to be phasing in Hdytto's thing of having each DYK nom in its own 4th-level subsection on the suggestions page, could we modify the edit notice (which currently has a message about the queue system and not re-adding your hook) to say something, in big letters, about the new format and how nominators should put their new hook in a section? I tried Template talk:Did you know/Editnotice but that doesn't exist, so I guess the T:TDYK edit notice works differently than user talk edit notices.
And while we're at that, this may be a good time to think about implementing something Ameliorate (I believe) mentioned above when discussing a credits bot...a template for DYK noms. (It could have numbered parameters for the article name and hook, and named parameters for creator/expanders and nominator.) That would help with the new layout of the suggestions page because, as we know, sometimes people are dumb (or just human) and format things weird when they nominate their hook...I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people nominating their hooks under the new layout accidentally make a 3rd- or 2nd-level section heading instead of a 4th, or just make a typo that screws up the sections, or something like that...and it would be a lot of extra work for us to clean up after it. So having a template to avoid that stuff would help...and it seems like having that in a template would be useful anyway for automating things (although I can't remember exactly what...actually maybe it wouldn't be useful for automating things, since it would probably be subst'ed).
As a side note...I know setting this stuff up would be extra work now, but I think it's worth it, because I think Hdytto's new setup is nice. For one thing, it makes it easier for us reviewers to comment on an individual nom (before this, I was doing a lot of scrolling up and down to get to the section edit button), and will cut back on edit conflicts...and it just makes things tidier. Also, this is somewhat selfish, but it makes {{ DYKproblem}}, my baby, work a lot more nicely. (addition) And it makes the history more easily searchable, if you're trying to find when a particular hook was deleted or something like that, assuming that people use section editing. — Politizer talk/ contribs 04:37, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Here's the editnotice link: MediaWiki:Editnotice-11-Did_you_know ~ User:Ameliorate! (with the !) ( talk) 05:35, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
{{subst:DYKsuggestion | article = Example | hook = ...that '''[[Example]]''' ''(pictured)'' is an article being used to try out a [[WP:Template|template]] called {{tl|DYKsuggestion}}? | creator = Politizer | expander = | expander2 = | expander3 = | nominator = | movedtomainspace = | image = Example.png }} ~~~~
As you can see, what the nominator actually has to type is basically the same as what they have to type now...but I admit that seeing it as a template might be intimidating. Also, I wanted to bring up the issue of subst'ing...if you subst this is gets REALLY ugly (lots of stuff like {{#if:{{{creator|}}}| [[User:{{{creator}}}|{{{creator}}}]].}})—fortunately the hook itself doesn't get messy, but still the nominators and creators and yada yada get buried under all that syntax. If you don't subst, stuff stays pretty neat, although it will take up a lot of room in the edit window (although that shouldn't be a huge issue if people will be using section editing). —
Politizer
talk/
contribs
05:43, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
I don't think we need a message in the notice. People so far are all following the format fine, so I don't think it's necessary. I love the template - I left a message on the talk page suggesting why it edits the template and not the section when it's posted.
We would need to put this template in the edit header at least for a while - it's quite big, and should be there to easily copy, as Mattisse says, it can be quite complicated. – How do you turn this on ( talk) 14:37, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Hi all. Thanks for all the great work you do in keeping DYK up and running. I was wondering if someone could help me figure out a bit of a puzzle. Hittin was nominated for a DYK (a co-nom of myself, User:Huldra and User:Al Ameer son. I think it did actually appear ont he DYK page sometime in the last 24 hours. But ... no tags were distributed. Not to the article page and not out to the co-noms. Is there a glitch in the new system when it comes to multiple notifications? Anyone know what happened or how to find out? Your help is appreciated. Tiamut talk 22:58, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
I just made some redirects if we need to link to the queues currently waiting. At the moment the normal address is a bit long. (might be useful in cases such as above). T:DYK/Q1, T:DYK/Q2, T:DYK/Q3, T:DYK/Q4, T:DYK/Q5. If they are useless, feel free to destroy them, I just thought it may be useful. \ / ( ⁂) 23:14, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
I am not sure that this is the right place to report this, in that case, please tell me where to go.
Currently there is a reference to Lucius Aurelius Avianius Symmachus in Template:Did you know/Queue/5, whose text is "that enraged plebs burned down the home of Lucius Aurelius Avianius Symmachus because of a rumor that he was "slak[ing] lime with wine"?" This is however incorrect, as the rumor was that he (had) said that he would have rather preferred slaking lime with wine, rather than selling it (the wine) at the price the plebs wanted.
I hope someone could fix this.
Bye, -- TakenakaN ( talk) 01:57, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
I'm a bit concerned about several of the recent DYK's created by User:Billy Hathorn that have been allowed on the main page. Take a look at these The Californians (TV series) (not a single good resource), The Roy Rogers and Dale Evans Show (several shady refs), The Greatest Show on Earth (TV series), (more of the same issues), Roger Mobley (the main source is the subjects own website), Window on the Plains Museum (resource 3?), and Don Collier (similar issues). I investigated this because I have declined DYKs for this user before for using IMDB and I was wondering why he kept on submitting articles with that as a source. Now I know. Although I think we need to have a talk with Billy, the more pressing concern here is a lack of consistancy among our reviewers. How can we expect good submissions from regular contributors like Billy if we don't enforce our own policies? Nrswanson ( talk) 03:01, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
using a link to the discussion. That might motivate him to resolve the discussion or at least clue the DYK reviewer into looking into the article more thoroughly. Perhaps we can have a bot programmed to make such posts, with an admin adding and removing names to the bot post list as needed. -- Suntag ☼ 07:45, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
An unresolved discussion was started on Wikipedia talk:Did you know about this editor's recent DYK post.
Some very great comments! I think it's important to encourage submitters AND to encourage reviewers... so there's a difficult balance here. There's also WP:AGF to keep in mind! That said, if we have nominators that we agree are consistently producing (or at least have a tendency to produce) problematic nominations, I wonder if it makes sense to note that somehow, as an aid to reviewers. We want to do it in a sensitive way, but maybe a list of "currently on probation" at the top of the nom page or something? Because I agree... Billy's enthusiastic but some of his noms are problematic, take significant time to resolve, and sending mixed messages (which can confuse the issue) may not be the best way to proceed... all reviewers need awareness to reduce that, as improving our consistency in applying standards is goodness. Balance that against WP:BURO of course! ++ Lar: t/ c 13:37, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
So what does the community propose? If he won't follow policy, is this blockable? Otherwise the community is left working on this undoing every substandard edit one by one. — Rlevse • Talk • 10:48, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
I used the IMDB for the articles on 1960s TV shows for the factual content. I did not use opinion inserted occasionally by readers. I don't think IMDB allows readers to change the factual material. The articles that I have written on the old show are of highest quality and were checked carefully for accuracy. I cannot imagine what the dispute is about. I used what material that I had. Compare these articles with other submissions on the old TV series. Billy Hathorn ( talk) 04:41, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Brown Mountain forest's DYK is scheduled to be shown on DYK at midnight to 8am, Australian Eastern Standard Time. ( Template:Did you know/Queue/4). Can it be delayed for 8 hours so it can be seen by people living in Australia? I'd change it myself but I don't want to mess with the queues. — Pengo 09:25, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
This thread got me thinking. Now that the admin bot is doing the Main Page postings, article appearances on the Main Page can be predicted to be in one of four UTC timeslots: 0 timeslot (00:00-04:00), 4 timeslot (04:00-12:00), 12 timeslot (12:00-18:00), and 18 timeslot (18:00-24:00). Perhaps we can offer nominators an option to request either a 0 timeslot, 6 timeslot, 12 timeslot, or 18 timeslot based on when they think their DYK hook target audience will be viewing the Main Page (e.g., morning or after work in the evening). For example, I have a DYK hook pending that might be of interest to those in South Korea. It now is 4 AM in South Korea [2] and about 19 UTC, so I would not want 18 timeslot for my DYK hook. With my DYK hook nom, I would have posted something like "0 timeslot or 4 timeslot requested" or "timeslot request: 0, 4". As BorgQueen notes above, such requests cannot be accommodated sometimes (Such as for the 18 timeslot when most of the United States is awake). However, this might be a good way to make better use of DYK's portion of the Main Page. We can even create a table such as "If your DYK hook target audience lives in xxx, recommended DYK timeslots are xxx." If the DYK nominator doesn't care about the timeslot, then they need not post any timeslot request. -- Suntag ☼ 19:41, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Anyone ever heard of Wikipedia:Today's second feature? It has a bunch of subpages that redirect to Template:Did you know. Maybe some of Today's second feature should be tagged historical and the rest deleted. -- Suntag ☼ 17:37, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
{{CURRENTYEAR}}
, {{CURRENTMONTHNAME}}
, and {{CURRENTDAY}}
. I do not know how many Wikipedians are still using that and
Wikipedia:Main Page alternative (Classic 2006) as their
main page alternative, and
using it as their default page. Therefore, I do not recommend a full deletion at this time unless someone is willing to rework all of this "
spaghetti code". Cheers.
Zzyzx11
(Talk)
06:59, 27 November 2008 (UTC)A few days ago I mentioned an experimental template that I was working on for making DYK nominations. Well, thanks to help from How do you turn this on, Backslash Forwardslash, Lifebaka, and especially thanks to Ameliorate! for his/her ingenious solution, the template has been saved from the brink of certain death and, while probably not in good enough shape yet to be used for nominations, is at least in good enough shape for me to show other people. So, without further ado, here is the counterintuitively named {{ DYKsug}} (I avoided names like DYKnomination because that might cause confusion with {{ DYKnom}}, which is already taken and is very widely used)...
Here's the code that nominators would copy and paste into the edit window when they make their nom:
{{subst:DYKsug
| article = Article name
| article2 =
| article3 =
| article4 =
| article5 =
| hook = ... that ...
| creator =
| expander =
| expander2 =
| expander3 =
| nominator =
| movedtomainspace =
| image =
| ALT1 =
| ALT2 =
}}
Here's what it would produce if you nominated two articles and specified an article creator, a date it was moved to mainspace, an image, and an alternate hook:
And here's what the code it leaves behind would look like (ie, the code that reviewers and promoters would have to deal with):
====[[Example]], [[Hook]]====
{{DYKsuggestion
| hook = ... that this '''[[hook]]''' is just an '''[[example]]'''?
| creator = Politizer
| expander =
| expander2 =
| expander3 =
| nominator =
| movedtomainspace = November 25
| image = Example.png
| ALT1 = ... that this '''[[hook]]''', which is an '''[[example]]''', is great?
| ALT2 =
}}
You'll notice that it copied over some empty parameters (the expander and nominator parameters, and ALT2, which the nominator chose not to specify). One thing I'm currently working on is to use stuff like <includeonly>subst:</includeonly>#if: so that when you call {{ DYKsug}} it only copies over the parameters that are actually used, and doesn't clutter up T:TDYK so much.
Anyway, there's how things are right now. I'll post another message if there are any mega developments later. If anyone has comments or feedback on what's good or bad about this template, whether or not it will be useful for us, or things that you think it needs, I would be glad to hear from you! — Politizer talk/ contribs 05:43, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Politizer and I are in the process of testing Template:DYKsug on Template talk:Did you know. Basically, that means taking existing DYK noms and placing them into {{ DYKsug}} using one of the suggested strings. You can help by switching existing noms into {{ DYKsug}} and reporting any problems or suggestions at Template talk:DYKsuggestion. Thanks. -- Suntag ☼ 21:40, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
So that people can find their DYK noms once removed from the vetting section of Template talk:Did you know, I transcluded the queues to the bottom of Template talk:Did you know. -- Suntag ☼ 11:44, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
I reformatted Template_talk:Did_you_know#Instructions to make it more reader friendly. -- Suntag ☼ 12:53, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Why is the note regarding US-related topics required on the next update/clear page? It's wrong for a start; there's often hardly any US topics. And US topics is a very vague term indeed. I don't see any point in having such a message there. It's been removed, and readded a few times. I'd like to know what purpose it really serves, and if it's actually necessary. I'm sure the admins dealing with this are careful to choose a variety of topics in a fair way. – How do you turn this on ( talk) 00:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Do we have a prior discussion (I couldn't find any) about requiring a wikiproject banner on a DYK article's Talk page? Though this would be "instruction creep", here are my thoughts:
The next queue is empty, and I have to go offline soon. Can someone fill the next update and copy it to the queue please? (Please be extra careful with the new credit format.) -- BorgQueen ( talk) 12:10, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
With the DYKbot on, the DYK Clock may never get to turn red because our DYK updating is too slow. Instead, perhaps we can make it turn red when all five DYK Queue templates are empty? And maybe yellow when there are more than three empty ones? No clue how to do this, but I thought I should share this idea with fellow DYKsters. Just a thought at this time. Cheers. -- PFHLai ( talk) 18:09, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
These are all great ideas. Cirt ( talk) 21:38, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
{{DYKbotdo}}
. It would be possible to create a new template such as {{Did you know/queues|1|-|3|-|5}} (1, 3, 5 are done, 2 and 4 aren't). Then when the next queue is filled that template could be updated. ~
User:Ameliorate! (with the !) (
talk)
02:00, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
MPUploadBot has been blocked because it was too unreliable. Images will need to be protected manually, the safest way to do that is to protect the image when the hooks are added to the queue. ~ User:Ameliorate! (with the !) ( talk) 00:15, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
The bot doesn't seem to be working at the moment, so I've updated manually since it was more than 30 minutes overdue. Can someone do the credits please? -- BorgQueen ( talk) 09:20, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
I just read all the new DYK pages and I had a blast seeing how organized things are now. Unfortunately, I can no longer find an automated script one can install to monobook.js for automating credit giving. Can anyone point me to that script? - Mgm| (talk) 12:18, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
Is it possible to get the bot to update every 6 hours instead of every 6 hours and 5 minutes and put it on a schedule to update at 0:00, 6:00, 12:00, and 18:00.-- TonyTheTiger ( t/ c/ bio/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:LOTM) 08:19, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
There have been rumblings now and then of how we should notify users when their noms get promoted, so that they don't get confused when their nom disappears and have to go searching through all the queues, or worse, re-add their nom. I think Suntag's idea of transcluding the queues at the bottom of T:TDYK helps, since now promoted noms still come up when someone searches the page in their browser. But just in case people think something still needs to be done.... here are the two main suggestions I've heard a lot:
Option 1 would mean that the promoter would have extra clicking to do, and it would clutter up the user talk pages of people who are prolific nominators. Option 2 would require that someone pay close enough attention to the template-flipping to know when to remove a nom from T:TDYK, since you wouldn't be able to just delete it while moving to Next like we do now.
I am not endorsing either one more than the other, and I think both have their ups and downs, but if anyone is interested in exploring option 2, I made a sample of how it might work... there would be a new parameter, |promoted=
, in the suggestion template we use now, and it would default to "no." Then, when an editor is promoting the nom, he/she would just enter "yes" for that parameter (should be easy, as he/she will already have the edit window open for grabbing the hook, etc.); after saving the page, it would put the hook and nominator/expander/creator names in a pretty box, blank the rest of the content (image, discussion, verification) using <div style="display: none;">, and leave a big message saying "This nomination has been promoted to the queue." To see what it all looks like, go
here.
The reason I have made a sample of this and not of option 1 (sending users a message) is because option 1 is very easy to make a template for and I assume we can all imagine in our heads more or less what it would look like. — Politizer talk/ contribs 17:16, 27 November 2008 (UTC)