Case clerk: AlexandrDmitri ( Talk) Drafting arbitrators: John Vandenberg ( Talk) & Newyorkbrad ( Talk)
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Behaviour on this page: Arbitration case pages exist to assist the Arbitration Committee in arriving at a fair, well-informed decision. You are required to act with appropriate decorum during this case. While grievances must often be aired during a case, you are expected to air them without being rude or hostile, and to respond calmly to allegations against you. Accusations of misbehaviour posted in this case must be proven with clear evidence (and otherwise not made at all). Editors who conduct themselves inappropriately during a case may be sanctioned by an arbitrator, clerk, or functionary, without further warning, by being banned from further participation in the case, or being blocked altogether. Personal attacks against other users, including arbitrators or the clerks, will be met with sanctions. Behavior during a case may also be considered by the committee in arriving at a final decision.
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Since this is my first (only? God willing) time at Arbcom, I just want to be sure that the 500 words is a strict limit. I'm at just over 700 (w/24 diffs) and can't figure out what to cut. If it's a strict limit, I'll find some way, but if it's more of a target, I'd rather stay up around my current number. Qwyrxian ( talk) 12:51, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Unfortunately, a situation has come up in the family and I will be unavailable for the next few days. I knew about it earlier, but the timing keeps changing (funeral for a highly unexpected death... planning it has been off-the-cuff). As such, I'm not going to be able to present any evidence at this time.
However, I would really appreciate if ArbCom could grant me a few days extension.
If not, I will have access to my mobile phone and network, so I will be able to prepare a very short statement, but it probably won't have any diffs. I don't know if ArbCom accepts those or not. Magog the Ogre ( talk) 13:16, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Great! I will write up the draft today, given time availability; if not, then I'll get it tomorrow or Monday at the latest. But I don't expect it to go beyond tomorrow (I am not hugely busy tomorrow). Magog the Ogre ( talk) 15:36, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks again for all your patience; I really just became crazy IRL busy.
Magog the Ogre (
talk)
19:14, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
On behalf of the Mediation Committee, I reaffirm our perpetual intention to prevent all communications during formal mediation from being used in subsequent arbitration proceedings, while not protecting "users who deliberately disrupt and subvert official dispute resolution" nor "allow its policies to be abused to protect bad-faith actions" ( WP:MC/P#The privileged nature of mediation). With the other mediators, we have decided that, in relation to the proceedings of our Senkaku Islands case, to preserve the Privilege, there is no reason to blank and delete any pages other than the mediation case talk page and archives. Specifically, discussions between individual parties or between the mediator and a party, on user talk pages, will not be covered by the Privilege.
The Mediation Committee makes no statement about any claims of misconduct by the mediator who was assigned to the case, and we would view such an allegation are incorrect (and possibly frivolous). However, if the Arbitration Committee does pursue that line of enquiry, we will publish a relevant statement as formal Evidence (upon request to the MedCom mailing list). Lastly, if the arbitrators require any other information from the mediators, please contact us on the usual address.
For the Mediation Committee, AGK [ • 12:39, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
May I make my such response here? If not, please let me know and I will remove it and put where it should be. It is a pain for me to have to make this response because I ever respected Magog the Ogre before, and some parts of Evidence presented by Magog are so incorrect but quite subtle that I have to respond.
At this point, I still recommend a block of Tenmei (probably 24 hours, to match the block of Lvhis; alternatively, 48 hours, if you think it should escalate across the dispute rather than per person), and I recommend fully protecting the page, since multiple users have shown themselves unable to either understand or abide by the principle you advanced... -- Qwyrxian
I just realized that user:Oda Mari, an involved party in this Arb case initiated changes in the content of the guideline WP:NCGN#Multiple local names that I mentioned and cited in my Statement, Evidence, and my proposal in Workshop there. And the example " Liancourt Rocks" there was also raised by Penwhale and Zscout370 in their statements. Oda Mari challenged this guideline in her Evidence ( her historic version). Now Oda Mari changed this guideline whose pre-exist content did not favor her stance into a version that is less unfavorable for her stance ( the difference of the two versions), and changed a key word in her evidence accordingly ( the updated version of her Evidence). The verifiability of the content after such change is questionable. So there are 3 problems here:
Is Oda Mari's such guideline-editing during Arbitration process allowable? On my understanding, her such change may not be appropriate because Arbitration is as said "The Committee's decisions may interpret existing policy and guidelines" stated in Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy#Policy and precedent. -- Lvhis ( talk) 21:04, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
I disagree with PI. It's not only a common name but also it's against "Use modern names". Besides, unlike Liancourt Rocks, PI is not approved by United States Board on Geographic Names. They approve Senkaku. Check it for yourself. [3] As far as I know, Australia, UK, and USA use Senkaku Shoto on their nautical charts. If the title is biased, the US government would be biased too. See the map. I think the Google search of almost all news stories and studies are meaningless as long as they deal with the dispute. As a matter of course, they use both names as a part of basic information on the islands. @Penwhale, it seems you didn't notice this. Please answer me. Thank you. Oda Mari (talk) 09:10, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
- Implicitly, neither PRC nor ROC would approve. However, I mentioned that CNN and Google are using both within article text/on the map, and this cannnot be done in a page title. And technically, using United States Board on Geographic Names as a point isn't correct since it doesn't represent a worldwide view. - Penwhaledance in the air and follow his steps 15:22, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, that is absolutely true. --Lvhis (talk) 17:01, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
- Because when one US Government agency went from Dokdo to Laincourt, President Bush struck back and forced the name back to Dokdo and make it Korean owned source. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 18:04, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
If you are going to quote me, please quote me in full. I actually said "Whilst I agree in principle that changes in guidelines upon which one relies in dispute resolution are generally to be avoided, unless I am missing something, the changes are simple alterations of grammatical tense, and as such, do not alter the meaning substantially in either instance.". The words that were omitted above (in bold for emphasis here) rather change the substance of what I said. Alexandr Dmitri ( talk) 18:59, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
(moved from the Evidence section)
Case clerk: AlexandrDmitri ( Talk) Drafting arbitrators: John Vandenberg ( Talk) & Newyorkbrad ( Talk)
Wikipedia Arbitration |
---|
![]() |
|
Track related changes |
Behaviour on this page: Arbitration case pages exist to assist the Arbitration Committee in arriving at a fair, well-informed decision. You are required to act with appropriate decorum during this case. While grievances must often be aired during a case, you are expected to air them without being rude or hostile, and to respond calmly to allegations against you. Accusations of misbehaviour posted in this case must be proven with clear evidence (and otherwise not made at all). Editors who conduct themselves inappropriately during a case may be sanctioned by an arbitrator, clerk, or functionary, without further warning, by being banned from further participation in the case, or being blocked altogether. Personal attacks against other users, including arbitrators or the clerks, will be met with sanctions. Behavior during a case may also be considered by the committee in arriving at a final decision.
Active:
Inactive:
Recused
Since this is my first (only? God willing) time at Arbcom, I just want to be sure that the 500 words is a strict limit. I'm at just over 700 (w/24 diffs) and can't figure out what to cut. If it's a strict limit, I'll find some way, but if it's more of a target, I'd rather stay up around my current number. Qwyrxian ( talk) 12:51, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Unfortunately, a situation has come up in the family and I will be unavailable for the next few days. I knew about it earlier, but the timing keeps changing (funeral for a highly unexpected death... planning it has been off-the-cuff). As such, I'm not going to be able to present any evidence at this time.
However, I would really appreciate if ArbCom could grant me a few days extension.
If not, I will have access to my mobile phone and network, so I will be able to prepare a very short statement, but it probably won't have any diffs. I don't know if ArbCom accepts those or not. Magog the Ogre ( talk) 13:16, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Great! I will write up the draft today, given time availability; if not, then I'll get it tomorrow or Monday at the latest. But I don't expect it to go beyond tomorrow (I am not hugely busy tomorrow). Magog the Ogre ( talk) 15:36, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
Thanks again for all your patience; I really just became crazy IRL busy.
Magog the Ogre (
talk)
19:14, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
On behalf of the Mediation Committee, I reaffirm our perpetual intention to prevent all communications during formal mediation from being used in subsequent arbitration proceedings, while not protecting "users who deliberately disrupt and subvert official dispute resolution" nor "allow its policies to be abused to protect bad-faith actions" ( WP:MC/P#The privileged nature of mediation). With the other mediators, we have decided that, in relation to the proceedings of our Senkaku Islands case, to preserve the Privilege, there is no reason to blank and delete any pages other than the mediation case talk page and archives. Specifically, discussions between individual parties or between the mediator and a party, on user talk pages, will not be covered by the Privilege.
The Mediation Committee makes no statement about any claims of misconduct by the mediator who was assigned to the case, and we would view such an allegation are incorrect (and possibly frivolous). However, if the Arbitration Committee does pursue that line of enquiry, we will publish a relevant statement as formal Evidence (upon request to the MedCom mailing list). Lastly, if the arbitrators require any other information from the mediators, please contact us on the usual address.
For the Mediation Committee, AGK [ • 12:39, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
May I make my such response here? If not, please let me know and I will remove it and put where it should be. It is a pain for me to have to make this response because I ever respected Magog the Ogre before, and some parts of Evidence presented by Magog are so incorrect but quite subtle that I have to respond.
At this point, I still recommend a block of Tenmei (probably 24 hours, to match the block of Lvhis; alternatively, 48 hours, if you think it should escalate across the dispute rather than per person), and I recommend fully protecting the page, since multiple users have shown themselves unable to either understand or abide by the principle you advanced... -- Qwyrxian
I just realized that user:Oda Mari, an involved party in this Arb case initiated changes in the content of the guideline WP:NCGN#Multiple local names that I mentioned and cited in my Statement, Evidence, and my proposal in Workshop there. And the example " Liancourt Rocks" there was also raised by Penwhale and Zscout370 in their statements. Oda Mari challenged this guideline in her Evidence ( her historic version). Now Oda Mari changed this guideline whose pre-exist content did not favor her stance into a version that is less unfavorable for her stance ( the difference of the two versions), and changed a key word in her evidence accordingly ( the updated version of her Evidence). The verifiability of the content after such change is questionable. So there are 3 problems here:
Is Oda Mari's such guideline-editing during Arbitration process allowable? On my understanding, her such change may not be appropriate because Arbitration is as said "The Committee's decisions may interpret existing policy and guidelines" stated in Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy#Policy and precedent. -- Lvhis ( talk) 21:04, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
I disagree with PI. It's not only a common name but also it's against "Use modern names". Besides, unlike Liancourt Rocks, PI is not approved by United States Board on Geographic Names. They approve Senkaku. Check it for yourself. [3] As far as I know, Australia, UK, and USA use Senkaku Shoto on their nautical charts. If the title is biased, the US government would be biased too. See the map. I think the Google search of almost all news stories and studies are meaningless as long as they deal with the dispute. As a matter of course, they use both names as a part of basic information on the islands. @Penwhale, it seems you didn't notice this. Please answer me. Thank you. Oda Mari (talk) 09:10, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
- Implicitly, neither PRC nor ROC would approve. However, I mentioned that CNN and Google are using both within article text/on the map, and this cannnot be done in a page title. And technically, using United States Board on Geographic Names as a point isn't correct since it doesn't represent a worldwide view. - Penwhaledance in the air and follow his steps 15:22, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, that is absolutely true. --Lvhis (talk) 17:01, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
- Because when one US Government agency went from Dokdo to Laincourt, President Bush struck back and forced the name back to Dokdo and make it Korean owned source. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 18:04, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
If you are going to quote me, please quote me in full. I actually said "Whilst I agree in principle that changes in guidelines upon which one relies in dispute resolution are generally to be avoided, unless I am missing something, the changes are simple alterations of grammatical tense, and as such, do not alter the meaning substantially in either instance.". The words that were omitted above (in bold for emphasis here) rather change the substance of what I said. Alexandr Dmitri ( talk) 18:59, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
(moved from the Evidence section)