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Issue: discussion about the practice of polyandry by Nairs in
Nair article. The issue is no coverage versus moderate coverage.
My argument: Not discussing the ancient practice of polyandry adequately and/or providing a link to
Polyandry among Nairs at the appropriate place in the article is a violation of NPOV.
Evidence: abundant.
please see here for some articles i have listed from JSTOR.
google books,
Nair polyandry in Google scholar,
Nayar polyandry in Google scholar
Previous outside discussions: I have sought ouside opinion at ANI.
User:DGG,
User:EdJohnston,
User:TFOWR and
User:Silver seren have already commented before. I have listed their comments
here for convenience. User:DGG, User:TFOWR and User:Silver seren support a moderate coverage. User:EdJohnston recommended
WP:RFC.
Other side:
Shannon1488 (
talk ·
contribs ·
count),
Thankappan Pillai (
talk ·
contribs ·
count),
Vekramaditya (
talk ·
contribs ·
count),
Pulayan Punchapadam (
talk ·
contribs ·
count) and
Suresh.Varma.123 (
talk ·
contribs ·
count). All of them have no edits outside
Nair and larger section
Kshatriya related articles. Some socks
have been blocked. --
CarTick (
talk) 01:40, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't care whether you want to portray all Nairs as homosexuals or not. But wikipedia should not be used as a propaganda tool. CarTick had an argument with a Nair editor one month ago in the Nadar article. Right after he went for a wiki break, this guy started vandalizing Nair articles. Almost all the Nadar related articles in Wikipedia are full of POV and loaded with anti-Nair hatred. And here is the reason why Polyandry is not relevant to the Nair article:
We have voiced our concerns. If you want to side with Cartick, do it. Unfortunately there is not much I could do about jealousy and inferiority complex. Suresh.Varma.123 ( talk) 02:29, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
If any of you have the time and the inclination would you please take a quick look at this article. It has been tagged as having POV issues and, for the life of me, I can find no POV on the entire page. Per the conversation on the talk page Talk:Greg Hicks a claim is being made that the article is purely promotional, but, to me it looks like most actor articles that are stubs. I think a fresh set of eyes might clear things up. My thanks ahead of time to any editor who can assist in this matter. MarnetteD | Talk 22:43, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Hi. A question about "Philosophy" sections in school and org. articles. Are these sections appropriate, especially when unsourced (as in above article)? Just wanted some other opinions before making an attempt to edit. Thanks, The Interior (Talk) 19:05, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Article in question: Microdermabrasion
Problem: The article is (and has been in all previous edits), no more than an ad for microdermabrasion, a cosmetic procedure. There is no information on potential risks or drawbacks of the procedure. Title headings are things like "How microdermabrasion renews the skin" - that is, non-facts stated as facts. This type of language is not tolerated on other sites e.g. plastic surgery, body cleansing, etc, and should not be tolerated here.
Discussion: Talk:Microdermabrasion Other users have pointed out this problem, and a few of the more egrigious claims (acne removal, scar reduction, etc) have been removed. However, the main issue of Neutral PoV remains in the article proper. One user defended the article saying:
Utter rubbish, yes there are quacks doing this but true professionals get good and even excellent results. It is one of the most popular treatments of the last few years so I doubt it would be that popular if it did not get the results!
Which again fails several tests of bias (it's hearsay, and something being popular doesn't mean it effective, see body cleansing) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jozieg ( talk • contribs) 13:31, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanos5150 ( talk · contribs) insists on removing any criticism of Zecharia Sitchin from the lead section, and burying it farther down in the article. I see this as a violation of both WP:NPOV and MOS:LEAD. Additional experienced opinions welcome, probably better on Talk:Zecharia Sitchin than here. — David Eppstein ( talk) 04:23, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
There is an article that is having POV issues and I have to admit that it is a little on the WP:FRINGE side, but there is WP:UNDUE weight towards debunking instead of being neutral. There is an article Here in regards to Zecharia Sitchin and it was right away squashed as not WP:RS. There are a number of editors and Admins who verge on the WP:OWN regulations and police it without consensuses. Opinion? - Pmedema ( talk) 07:25, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm having a bit of a disagreement with a couple of editors on the Conservatism in the United States article. Rjensen originated and The Four Deuces has perpetuated these changes. I'll copy a portion of my objections from the talk page:
I object to this language on two counts:
1) It is a blatant violation of WP:NPOV to label the Tea Party as "angry conservatives". Certainly we don't see this sort of language at the Tea Party movement article or references to "angry liberals" at Opposition to the Iraq War. While anger is perhaps a socially appropriate emotion in certain contexts, labeling a political movement as "angry" is biased and demeaning.
2) The sources do not support the notion that the Tea Party is universally angry, nor do they support the notion that the Tea Party has "paid little attention to foreign policy". Being split on something and ignoring something are two entirely different concepts. The Tea Party has not ignored foreign policy and the sources do not indicate that they have.
Can I get a POV check on these edits? My primary concern is the lack of multiple, reliable sources to support broad and sweeping assertions. Uncle Dick ( talk) 05:22, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
An RfC is in process here, the purpose of which is to decide which version best fulfills this directive in terms of Wikipedia policies and standards. Version 1 Version 2
Comments are solicited from participants of this noticeboard.. Tom Reedy ( talk) 13:36, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
On the GNU_Multi-Precision_Library article there is one anonymous user from Stockholm ( 90.132.75.8, 81.225.14.148, 130.237.222.220, 81.225.10.223 , 83.185.6.75, 130.237.222.220 ) that is repeatedly removing, without giving sound justifications, a wiki link to MPIR, a fork of GMP.
The line that is repeatedly removed is the following one:
Main argument for keeping it as given by a couple of users ( ALoopingIcon and MTarini):
Main argument for not having MPIR cited in the GMP article:
Given the fact that MPIR is a legitimate fork, and that the knowledge of this fork can be useful to a variety of user of the library (e.g. the ones that require compiling GMP using microsoft compilers, something that the GMP community actively does not support) I would ask to keep the link. I have stopped reverting the removal of the anonymous user to not incur in the WP:3RR. I could be wrong, but googling around it seems that the MPIR fork was not a smooth one, so there could be some NPOV issues in the anonymous user's steady will of continuously removing MPIR references. ALoopingIcon ( talk) 11:26, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
This article reads like a press release. If you google Arthur Wolk, the top links are about his unsuccessful libel lawsuits; he has sued over thirty different people or organizations for libel, and has never won a libel case in court. I looked up the Wolk article after reading about his threat to sue Reason for writing about his libel lawsuits, and found that the article was nothing but advertising. Two editors (one of whom who has said he is drafting this article on Wolk's behalf) keep deleting my attempt to add well-sourced discussion of his libel lawsuits, which are notable and have received press coverage in multiple sources. They argue that I cite to primary sources (though I cite to secondary sources, too), but the article is full of primary sources and mentions of cases that don't have any secondary sources. I have classes and work and my edits get deleted as soon as I make them by editors who have all day to spend on Wikipedia, so I will drop the issue, but it seems unfair that someone can use Wikipedia to advertise like that. (Note: Boo is a single-purpose account because I don't want Arthur Wolk to sue me for my regular account and Wolk threatens to sue anyone who writes about him. [2] I got accused of a conflict of interest, but the other editor who has done nothing but write about Wolk on Wolk's behalf hasn't. I'll stop using this account.) Boo the puppy ( talk) 12:34, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
A summary of this issue is available at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Usage_share_of_web_browsers#Vote_again_-_about_removing_regional_stats_in_summary . Again in summary editors agree there is bias. One group of editors wish to remove sources that have obvious bias for browser usage share statistics, summary, and intro reporting. Another group claims that all sources have bias and prefer to add more sources as to mitigate the bias. Would appreciate your thoughts and comments on this issue. Because of the controversy I deleted the summary statistics in the summary table. But there remains an issue of which source(s) to use in the wp:lead. Thanks, Daniel.Cardenas ( talk) 21:25, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
DavidR2010 (
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Ott jeff (
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72.39.98.63 (
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The Article in question is here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MonaVie
After reading the source articles I think that this could possibly be an attack attempt on the company. Could we have it checked for misrepresenting sources,fact finding and Neutrality please?
Some notes to consider:
Monavie Talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:MonaVie
Thanks
DavidR2010 (
talk) 13:42, 7 November 2010 (UTC)DavidR2010
DavidR2010 (
talk) 13:42, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
I think I understand now so you are saying that it is mainly this PDF this is the main source of what is written in the wikipedia article about MonaVie? DavidR2010 ( talk) 04:37, 8 November 2010 (UTC)DavidR2010 DavidR2010 ( talk) 04:37, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
If this is the final conclusion then leave no reply and I will take these findings back to the talk page in order to attempt to achieve consensus. DavidR2010 ( talk) 05:13, 8 November 2010 (UTC)DavidR2010 DavidR2010 ( talk) 05:13, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm pretty convinced something fishy is going on here there is quite a bit of slander of that company in that article with little proof to back it up. This source here http://www.amquix.info/pdfs/monavie/2-08-cv-00209-db-02.pdf is merely a complaint made by attorneys of a competing company how can that even be a reliable source. Yeah those guys didn't raise any good points either are you friends with them? I think you are a WP:IDHT Thank you. DavidR2010 ( talk) 06:56, 8 November 2010 (UTC)DavidR2010 DavidR2010 ( talk) 06:56, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
A single editor is responsible for adding considerable content to Paul Robeson and creating related articles, including Paul Robeson and the labor movement, Paul Robeson and Jackie Robinson, and Paul Robeson and communism. Together with considerable positive content, she has left an incredible amount of POV in those articles, and attempts to discuss the issue with her at Talk:Paul Robeson have been fruitless.
Can some fresh eyes take a look at the articles and chime in. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz Talk/ Stalk 22:54, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
"attempts to discuss the issue with her at Talk:Paul Robeson have been fruitless."
I appreciate this forum and the time you are giving the article but that above assessment is a tad biased and I feel you know this Malik. I have not only gone into articles and removed as much POV as possible (please see the changes made in the past few weeks) I am not responsible for all of it! I was faced with a very short article about a very complex and hugely world famous 20th century figure mired in pov and editing conflicts and who's life spanned the era when black children's parents had been former slaves up until 1976. I did the best I could and still really want to improve what is there and make it much, much better than it is while working with others.
There are numerous urban myths and conflicting accounts surrounding key parts of his life. Much of what I see as an issue is stemming from the fact that this was a once an immensely famous international figure who has been mostly written out of history so therefore one has to explain: 1.Why he was one of the most famous Americans of his time 2.Why he was is unknown now 3.Why he was once considered a threat to the power structure on two continents 4.Why he was considered a Communist sympathizer
all without any povs and taking into consideration that Robeson's opinions/writings should ideally be quoted as often as possible. Robeson stayed silent on many of his views towards the end of the red scare but in tandem maintained his opinions in his autobiography had never changed. Regarding the CP/USSR which seems to be the flash point for everyone, I think there DOES need to be a separate article. It is a huge source of controversy with lies propagated by both sides of the spectrum. I have added to both articles, cited sections that feature many of his views and actions regarding the USSR/CP that the Left wants sanitized but many conservatives are still very upset. My solution is that we offer the reader a very well cited section of the article with abbreviated theories about his Communist views by the far right, right, liberal, left, far left historians and all of his major biographers. This can edited in a similar fashion to this article (much more brief of course): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theories
As stated before, if someone of minute historical stature like Jessica Simpson warrants a portal and numerous sub articles, it is ludicrous to not have an in-depth availability of Robeson study in a similar fashion for his massive work with Labour unions in the US and abroad and the incident with Jackie Robinson. It is also saddening that he is invisible on all the Civil Rights portals and articles and has no portal and project of his own, he was active in Civil Rights his entire life. Catherine Huebscher ( talk) 8:08, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
itsmeudith, Hi thanks for your feedback. I will take your advice.
Str1977: Anyone can go read what I wrote for themselves and see you are false. "The Belgian Congo does not approach the scope of Stalin"s horror" you say? Had their never been western European conservative right wing Christian/Catholic lust for slavery and imperialism and a ruthless monarchy (which was buttressed by the former) there never would have been a Stalin or a Marx. Do realize that when I moved material to the PR and CP sub-article that much of that NOT mine. I moved it, cited it and tried to flesh it out. Once again, so much is unproven conjecture. Even I wrote, with no sound scholarly proof other than his son's claim (which could be easily called bias and thrown out) that he was "aware of state sponsored murder by the USSR" I put that in so bias can I be? You just seem to want him put in the "convenient idiot box" and it can't be done.
As for the power structure Robeson supported that would first and foremost always be the United States. Post war II when that same power structure failed to end the systematic apartheid and wholesale genocide of blacks and even merrily lauded it (John Rankin added: "After all, the KKK is an old American institution.") Even then he still supported pro-American domestic causes like civil rights and trade unions. He also WAS a threat to the USSR in speaking out about Feffer in Tchaikovsky Hall. I said TWO continents. First and foremost , Robeson wanted PEACE with the USSR and globally. He did not want the USA to be telling other countries how to govern themselves. Catherine Huebscher ( talk) 7:28, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
I have been trying to put in a piece correcting a very common misconception that Weston Price was called "The Charles Darwin of Nutrition". However I have hit a snag with two editors. One doesn't seem to understand that is to correct an already existing problem ( Talk:Weston_Price) and the other is hung up on the quality of the second source ignoring the fact it is basically parroting the higher quality first source
Here is the latest version of the piece:
However, an article in the 1950 edition of American Otological Society's journal The Laryngoscope stated the opinion that "Dr. Price might well be called "The Charles Darwin of Nutrition" and this was repeated nearly word for word in Modern nutrition the publication of American Academy of Nutrition who Price had had given his complete nutrition library to shortly before his death.((1950) The Laryngoscope, Volume 60; American Otological Society)((1951) Modern nutrition: Volumes 4-7; American Academy of Nutrition; pg 32). This statement of opinion would be presented as fact many decades later.
Given:
My questions to my fellow editors are:
Can I see if I've got this straight? The argument is over whether the article should include the statement that "Weston Price has been called the Charles Darwin of nutrition", (compare Lizst as "the Paganini of the piano"), and sourced primarily to the academic journal Laryngoscope. Is that right? VsevolodKrolikov ( talk) 06:41, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Seriously, it would be really helpful if one of you could provide a concise description of the editing action that is in dispute. That is, the text and the sourcing, without a commentary attached telling outside editors what you think of it. It's very difficult to give input when it's not clear what the specific edit action proposed is. To be honest, my immediate impression is that you don't agree on what that edit action is, so let's work on that first. VsevolodKrolikov ( talk) 10:04, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
This is rather marvelous progress. VsevolodKrolikov, thank you greatly for your input here. I think this is a positive solution to the problem being discussed. Griswaldo ( talk) 14:26, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
An editor named Leadwind is deleting a lot of cited material off of Gospel of Luke and with it pushing a heavily skewed POV. He is deleting material because he says the publishers are "sectarian" even though they are some of the largest and most recognzied publishers in the world. Unfortunately I am outnumbered and cannot do a whole lot, but his reasons for deleting "sectarian" material certainly go against wikipedia policy. Will some editors go over there and look at some of his edits as well as the talk page? RomanHistorian ( talk) 15:33, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
This article explains an ongoing dispute over ownership of a small group of islands between PRC, ROC, and Japan. While much about this article is in dispute, I need input on a single sentence that we've been arguing about for a long time. The sentence is:
According to the best translations we have (which have been confirmed by native Chinese speakers and as far as I know not been disputed by any editors), what the People's Daily article explicitly states with respect to the Senkaku Islands is:
The seven references in the sentence in our article are from two divisions of the Japanese government, a Japanese newspaper, a Chinese book, and a two US researchers. All of these sources believe that the above quotation from People's Daily means that, in 1953, the Chinese government (its assumed that People's Daily prints only officially approved opinions) considered the Senkaku Islands to be a part of Japanese territory. Now, I will say, this is a pretty believable analysis. My concern for the article, though, comes from exactly how we treat and attribute the sentence with regards to WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV.
Specifically, as far as our translations show, the People's Daily article never explicitly states that Senkaku Islands are a part of Japanese territory. As such, it appears, to me (and some other editors, although not the majority), that the claim that PD said that is an opinion, and thus must be explicitly attributed per WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV. As such, I have argued that what our article should state is something like the following (exact wording is flexible):
Opposing editors argue, essentially, that it is not nor has it ever been in dispute that China always considered Okinawa a part of Japanese territory (a claim I have no ability to evaluate, nor do I think is relevant), and thus it's not really an interpretation or opinion to make the transitive analysis that Senkaku Islands = Okinawa = Japanese territory. So, NPOV board, is this really, as I believe, an issue of the need to attribute NPOV, thus governed directly by policy? Or is this merely an editorial decision governed primarily by editorial consensus? Qwyrxian ( talk) 00:14, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Our policy is plain, straightforward:
( talk) 01:09, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Qwyrxian, you ignored a discussion whether such weird attribution is necessary in Japanese POV section " Arguments from Japan". Are you going to change the wording each time a new citation is added to the sentence? ―― Phoenix7777 ( talk) 03:59, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Comment - Looking at the actual wording in the sources cited for the statement, it's difficult to understand how it has been transformed into a statement of fact in the Wiki article that takes the form "the People's Daily said the Senkaku islands are Japanese territory". That isn't what the sources say. The current statement does look like an unattributed interpretation of what the People's Daily published so I think Qwyrxian is making a fair point policy-wise. Sean.hoyland - talk 04:57, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
My view is that the current wording is unsatisfactory. However, I do think that the article - if only indirectly - was acknowledging Japanese sovereignty over the Senkaku Islands. As far as I know the Ryuku Islands have been considered Japanese territory for over a century. Accordingly if the People's Daily clearly stated that the islands were part of the Ryuku chain, that meant they were Japanese as well.
I suggested something along the lines of "An article in the P-D...organ of.... on DATE acknowledged Japanese control of the Senkaku Islands, when it said that QUOTE." Control is probably the wrong word, but I was trying to improve on the current situation by making it clear why the article was acknowledging that these islands were Japanese. John Smith's ( talk) 20:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
The People's Daily article sheds little light on what the position of the Chinese government was in 1953. Government control, especially in 1953, did not include intensive consultations with diplomats and international lawyers with respect to every statement. The quotation can be used, but used, exploited, is the operative word. Information about that use, if adequately sourced, can be included in the article, but not as evidence of the considered position of the People's Republic of China. User:Fred Bauder Talk 14:44, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Our problem is not easy; and it is mis-parsed because of factors Qwyrxian failed to identify.
In the same manner, the People's Daily article is part of a list which is significant in the context of counter-argument. In this NPOV thread, both (a) the existence of a Senkaku Islands counter-argument list and (b) the subject of the argument/counter-argument remain unacknowledged.
It is noteworthy that subject
Qwyrxian does not acknowledge is
venire contra factum proprium. This is non-trivial in the
Senkaku Islands dispute.
This thread has a skewed perspective because we have not addressed the essential, irreducible threshold in which WP:V + WP:RS is more important than zero citations from zero reliable sources.
When threshold issues are glossed over, it produces unanticipated consequences. -- Tenmei ( talk) 21:10, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
My apologies. I knew it was a subsidiary of Encyclopedia Britannica, but didn't realize Her Majesty's Encyclopedia now belongs to Americans. However, since you apparently require help for such trivial task of reading comprehension, let me give you a hand:
Now, can you tell me how the Japanese managed to have sovereignty over Ryukyu Islands when they practically had no power over the islands? Bobthefish2 ( talk) 01:45, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
To summarise; someone feels we should use Japanese sources to verify the stance of China in a conflict between the two and in a manner that is clearly favorable to Japan. Could someone tell me why we consider these sources reliable in this context? Because that makes no sense to me. Taemyr ( talk) 19:18, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
I support Qwyrxian's reasoning on this issue. STSC ( talk) 16:34, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
An edit was proposed during a mediation to deal with accuracy issues in the article Gibraltar. This proposed replacing
“ | On 4 August 1704, during the War of the Spanish Succession, a combined Anglo-Dutch force captured the town of Gibraltar." | ” |
with
“ | During the War of the Spanish Succession, in August 1704, Gibraltar was captured by a largely Anglo-Dutch force in support of the Archduke Charles, the Hapsburg claimant to the Spanish throne. | ” |
The sentence is accurate, supported by reliable sources and provides more accurate information than currently. The accuracy of the statement is not disputed, rather those opposing it insist that if it is changed, then it must be followed by the caveat:
“ | It was soon under de facto British control. | ” |
There are a couple of national narratives to consider here. Generally, Gibraltarians insist that Gibraltar has been British since 1704. Previously, based on the account of Ayala it was the Spanish claim that the British captured Gibraltar in the name of Queen Anne. Both national narratives are rejected by modern scholars, both British and Spanish, eg Hills, Jackson, Bradford and Sepulveda. The mainstream opinions support the fact that Gibraltar was captured by a force under the command of Prince George of Hesse-Darmstadt on behalf of Charles III, the Austrian pretender to the Spanish throne.
However, there are a diverse range of opinions among historians as to the point at which the British obtained control over Gibraltar. For example, the British historian George Hills demonstrated that Gibraltar was considered a Hapsburg posesssion until 1712 and suggests Britain started to acquire de facto control from 1708, while the former Governor Sir William Jackson states in his book Gibraltar remained an Anglo-Dutch base until March 1713, only becoming British following Utrecht. This debate is far from settled and there is a wide range of opinions in the literature.
Hence, I do not consider that the caveat as demanded is either accurate or compliant with our policy of a NPOV, which suggest that if appropriate the range of opinions in the literature should be represented. Such a bald statement coming straight after a sentence referring to the events of 1704 rather infers that the British were immediately in control, something not supported by the range of opinions in the literature.
The counter argument has been to search through google books, using google snippets to find fragments of text that appear to support the simple caveat above ie searches predicated on satisfying the edit rather than looking at the literature to see what the weight of opinion is. See WP:RSN#Google Snippets regarding the reliability of this as a source. The argument presented is that these snippets are suitable cites and the diverse range of opinion in the literature can thus be ignored.
I would welcome outside opinion. Thank you. Wee Curry Monster talk 13:22, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I have a concern regarding the separation of facts from points of view in the article in French about the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA). It would be more in line with Wikipedia’s Neutral point of view policy and Wikipedia: Criticism guidelines if points of view were collated in a separate section. These guidelines state that “criticism that is integrated into the article should not disrupt the article or section’s flow”.
The citations in this article criticising EFSA’s work are currently published in sections to which they are not directly related. For example, the section explaining EFSA’s objectives also contains specific statements outlining points of view regarding EFSA staff and other detailed information not related to EFSA’s core remit. These would be more appropriately included in a section clearly identified as containing points of view.
The articles in other languages about EFSA follow a different structure and any criticism is presented in a separate section, such as in the German version.
I am an editor at EFSA. In line with Wikipedia’s rules regarding conflicts of interest we should and will not edit the article ourselves. We have tried to ask for a modification of the structure on the talk page of the article but have received no responses. This is why we are asking for your advice or help in this matter. Thank you in advance.
-- Haga Caroline ( talk) 10:37, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Hello,
The user Reisio has started PoV editions on these two articles by redirecting both pages to the ones related to Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, while these pages were disambiguation ones explaining the fact that the territory of Western Sahara is disputed and offering an overview of the Flag/CoA of each claimant.
I tried to explain to him [4] the WP:NPoV case related to these articles, and that any redirection to Morocco's or SADR's Flag/CoA is clearly PoV but I didn't succeed (and I will make no comment about his answer [5]).
If an admin can explain this thing to him, it will be nice.
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Omar-Toons (
talk) 01:40, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Western Sahara is a physical territory/area, not an political entity. It doesn't have flag and coat of arms. Morocco and the Sahrawi Republic (the two political entities claiming the Western Sahara territory/area) have flags and coats of arms. So, IMHO the pages Coat of arms of Western Sahara and Flag of Western Sahara should be disambiguation pages simply including links to Coat of arms of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, Coat of arms of Morocco, Flag of Morocco and Flag of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic. Alinor ( talk) 08:33, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
@ Omar-Toons - re "there are no "Southern provinces' flag"" - Believe that there are flags for each of the three provinces, no? (e.g. [11], [12]). NickCT ( talk) 19:57, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
There are controversies over this goddess, in particular her possible row as "God's wife" (see all the publicity on the new BBC2 dcoumentary on this, not yet in the article) and as "Queen of Heaven". These are covered by a section heading simply labelled 'Controversy' which I don't see as helpful. I changed this to "As God's wife and Queen of Heaven" to make it clear what the section is about, and this was reverted [14] with an edit summary "(Rv - 'controversy' is far more factual)". What would be an NPOV heading that allowed the readers to quickly see in the toc what this is about? Thanks. Dougweller ( talk) 13:07, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
I don't have time to investigate this properly, but some recent edits by a new user have introduced a lot of text, some of which seems to violate this policy [15]. See also a couple of edits at Al-Azhar_University [16]. -- Copper button 18:53, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Did the Armenians deserve to be deported and exterminated because they revolted and because Muslims also died during that time?. Thank you. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 14:31, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
"violent and extreme viral campaign"? How violent can a viral marketing campaign get? This seems to me to reek of BLP violations all over the farm, but I don't know the players well enough to comment beyond that. -- Orange Mike | Talk 14:47, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
I could really use some help or advice for this article on general neutrality issues. The current version of the article suggests that although there is criticism, there is equally valid scientific support for the test. My impression is that the MBTI is generally not accepted as a valid psychometric tool in psychology, and that the evidence is overwhelmingly not supportive of it. And I think it might be the case that most of the studies supporting it have connections with the same people who sell the test. I could be very wrong about this, but I'm having some trouble finding what the actual scientific consensus is on this issue. -- Aronoel ( talk) 22:01, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_medicine
The content featured on this page conveys a consistently *negative* slant of TCM, a slant that is generally inconsistant with the majority of accepted views of TCM. This issue has been addressed on the Talk board:
"I logged on to read about TCM today, and this page is in desperate need of some moderation. It reads like it's been written by someone with a personal vendetta against Traditional Chinese Medicine! I'm a western person and see MDs like the rest of us, but these articles are supposed to teach objectively, providing a balanced portrayal of a subject. Instead, every paragraph follows with statements attacking the credibility of TCM or bringing up controversial issues that may or may not be true (because they don't have citations), and re-using old stereotypes that everyone knows are not true (ie, "Snake Oil" isn't even used by TCM practitioners, according to my acupuncturist!)
Anyway, my problem isn't just that things aren't cited. The big problem here is that even the things that ARE cited are simply very slanted or misleading, highlighting only one side of controversial issues that, ultimately, really only ought to be in ONE of the later sections of the article. Why doesn't this article begin like a history book, explaining the origins and practices of the medicine, rather than begin with attacks on whether or not TCM holds up to scientific rigor, etc? For example, why would the oldest and the planet's single largest medical system contain these sentences in the INTRODUCTION (!) (one being in the first paragraph!): "TCM is subject to criticism regarding a number of issues," "It uses metaphysical principles that have no correlates in science based medicine, and would generally be rejected by it", "...found to be ineffective...contain dangerous toxins," "ineffective medicines" etc? These things may or may not be true--this is beside the point. They're just extremely biased, and I, furthermore, challenge the neutrality and organization of this article.
Finally, how is it that 7 of the 8 photos on this page are of grotesque or controversial animal substances yet some basic internet research reveals that the VAST majority of substances used in TCM practice today are simple PLANTS (most of which seem to also be native to north American traditions). Obviously there are also some definite controversies that should be mentioned, in this article, but that ought to be put in a section to deal with skepticism and criticisms. This article is just so very misleading in layout and organization. It seems odd that the medicine that lasted 3,000 years of practice (something you don't learn reading this article) would have endured all the cultural and political invasions it did if this article were representative of its merits. I'm not asking for a pro-TCM page, but let's seriously organize this thing like adults."
It seems that whenever the information is updated and the offensive pictures are removed (the "snake oil" advertisement, the pictures of human fetuses, etc) they are almost immediately reposted. I am concerened that someone out there has a personal vendetta against TCM, and has made it their mission to make this medicine look as negative as possible, in spite of the many documented positive benefits of traditional chinese medicine. Please look into this, as this consistently interferes with wikipedia's stance on neutrality and is an unfair assessment of TCM and it's practitioners.
Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vantagelogic ( talk • contribs) 07:35, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
— Vantagelogic ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Hello, it is being discussed whether the georeferenced image illustrating the GH topography and Template:Location_map_Golan_Heights based on it are violating Wikipedia neutrality principle. Thank you for your input. AgadaUrbanit ( talk) 10:19, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
— this is a recipe for going in perpetual POV circles
— these are ways to guarantee NPOV:
—
Biosketch (
talk) 23:40, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Your comments on these maps does not address the issues I have brought up above. Again: It is putting Israel in the same position as Syria to a place internationally recognized as part of Syria, neither northern Cyprus or Falkland Islands are internationally recognized as part of Turkey or Britain.-- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 23:55, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
comment - My preference for the infobox would be to have a simple map similar to say Western Sahara, a (corrected) topo map in addition would be good too.
However, I have to say that to an innocent passer-by reading this thread it might almost seem that SD is disruptively trying to impose a Syrian nationalist view of a dispute between 2 equal parties, Israel and Syria, onto poor old Wikipedia. In fact, SD is simply advocating the use of a map and not tampering with a map produced by Israel's closest ally, the United States, that accurately represents the consensus view of the international community. The dispute is Israel vs the international community, not Israel vs Syria.
In Wikipedia, in this topic area, an editor who advocates not tampering with reliably sourced information that accurately represents the consensus view of the international community can be accused of POV pushing both on an off wiki. Think about the craziness of that. It's like the creationist Discovery Institute running the talk page of the evolution article. It would never be allowed to happen there.
Having said all that, I see no need to use that map in the infobox although I see no reason not to use it. The infobox doesn't need to deal with the political aspects. The CIA map, unaltered, could be used in the current status section. Removing the factually accurate "Israeli occupied" label as has been done in File:Golan heights rel89B.jpg makes a neutral map non-neutral. That is the kind of thing policy-minded editors should be complaining and filing AE requests about. Sean.hoyland - talk 09:20, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
I, and some other editor as indicated by the edit history, think that material published in the Journal of Global Drug Policy and Practice is unworthy equal validity and thus that one other editor is breaking WP:VALID and WP:UNDUE when insisting on including specific findings into the article Insite. We additionally think that the journal, despite its claims to the contrary, lacks peer-review. The other editor lay more weight with the journals self-stated status while at least I think that is a violation of WP:3PARTY. The other editor brought it to WP:RSN where the discussion is inconclusive ( here). Nobody is really say that the article can't be cited, it already where before the other editor started edit the Insite article. The disagreement is rather for what it can be cited. So I where recommended to bring it here.
This is some quotes on the journal indicating lack of credibility and lack of peer-review:
Additionally:
I would appreciate comments on this. Steinberger ( talk) 23:00, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_YouTube_personalities#Ted_Williams_but_not_RWJ.3F
Basically my question is whether a neutral point of view is a requirement for a source to be considered 'a go'? I thought that was a requirement for writing an article and not explicitly a concern for sources. I know the specific link likely doesn't qualify for other reasons, but this question I feel is something I should know. 72.209.160.88 ( talk) 14:06, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
As of late, a new user has taken steps to turn the page on the " Redemption" conspiracy theories into blatant advocacy. -- Lenin and McCarthy | ( Complain here) 06:15, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Disregard: Nothing to see here except a clear case of WP:OVERREACT and possibly WP:BULLY because a blatantly WP:POV article is now being shifted towards a more neutral presentation. Visitor10001 is indeed a new user and I have counseled him in edit summaries, in several instances of the article's talk page and on his personal user page on how to deal with opposing editors on a controversial article. The Wiki-Jungle has a steep learning curve but it appears that he is trying to get the hang of it. Though I personally disagree with Visitor10001's position I defend his right to be heard and for his views to be included in a reasonable discussion because the end result should be a more rounded and useful article to readers of all flavors.
Frankly, the direction this article is now taking is unsettling.
Visitor is trying to defend something that doesn't work. If the people who try to use this are lucky, they'll just get their "bills of exchange," or whatever some variation used calls them, refused. If not, they'll just get charged with fraud. What seems to be happening is that this reality is now being framed as merely a "government POV." It is set up against the words of one "investigative journalist" who was convicted for counterfeiting for trying this. -- Lenin and McCarthy | ( Complain here) 17:43, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
And as for point 4, I felt that, given the relative lack of editors on the page, there wouldn't be much of a debate on the talk page. -- Lenin and McCarthy | ( Complain here) 17:59, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
The Sunday Times has been discussed previously on the reliable sources noticeboard. [31] I am of the opinion that the material, recently removed, is OK. Here is a bit of discussion on the talk page. The editor who wants the material gone said "The article referred to NICE in three places whereas at no point has Palin referred to NICE in the UK. Referencing NICE three times was undue weight." Jesanj ( talk) 00:52, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
(outdent) It is misleading if they say "Palin was referring to" when they have no reason to say that and our job is to inform and not to mislead the WP reader. If this was a comment section then I agree we could take this as the opinion of the writers. But clearly this is not an opinion piece. It is supposedly factual reporting and from that point of view we can definitely conclude that because Palin made no reference to NICE (or anything like it) it is very clearly inaccurate reporting. As I say this is verifiable as to the fact that the reporters reported inaccurately but it cannot be used to verify that this is what Palin was referring to because of the weight of reporting to the contrary. It is also undue weight to refer to NICE three times in the article when the view that she was referring to anything to do with the UK is not held by any American sources. As I say, if these were the only sources we had for Palin's intention then we would be obliged to use these statements. But we have lots of other sources so we can verify that these were inaccurate reports. Mentioning NICE three times when we know that Palin had not been talking about NICE is WP:UNDUE on a grand scale. Putting it in its own subsection would only add to the weight. I have left one reference in the article to NICE. Three was just way too many. Hauskalainen ( talk) 19:33, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi, It has been an accepted behavior to pass off The Economist as a "reliable source of the highest order" from many sides as I have been reading. Though I would like to point out a few things, that seems to form a little pattern of bias against people of a particular religion viz. Hinduism.
I would like to point this our with hard facts. As it is, uncivilized barbaric events are difficult to describe in civil forms. Let me start by saying plainly therefore that ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Pandits out of Kashmir region, J&K state, India, was a barbarian torturous "act" for all the Hindus. Same goes for burning of Hindu pilgrims of Godhra region in Gujarat state, India. These two are inhuman 'acts' of the lowest order, considering how ethnic natives residing in Kashmir since time immemorial have been brutalized and made to flee or how women and children pilgrims were burnt alive. These are rare 'acts' in deed, as no region ever tortures pilgrims and indulges in ethnic cleansing of whole set of religious hardworking people.
The Economist has hardly any words reserved, from its "reliable sources of the highest order", for these "acts". The Kashmiri Pandits living as refugees in their own countries, or those pilgrims who were burnt alive, can hardly stand up and get counted against this unfair treatment by silence of "the reliable source of the highest order". Any reporting from the Economist, or for that matter any good reference media, is conspicuous by absence of reporting these 'acts' from the viewpoint of Hindus who suffered (thus forming the bias - If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor - Desond Tutu), unlike its articles, perhaps correctly or not, reporting from viewpoint of Muslims about Narendra Modi( http://www.economist.com/node/10251282?story_id=10251282).
On the other hand, the Economist has passed off troubles in Kashmir state as a result of mistreatment and a little by Pakistani militants, without exhaustive consideration of all sides viz. Indian State, Kashmiri Pandits, all other minorities in J&K state like Budhdhists, Sikhs other than Hindus, and so on. Same goes for demeaning elected Govt. in Gujarat state of India.
My point is therefore simple, do what you want to but don't call the Economist as a "reliable source of the highest order" as far as anything related to Hinduism is considered. The question here is of balanced views(and its importance in reporting refer canons of journalism http://www.superiorclipping.com/canons.html), though an indication may come from its funding from people who have no interest in upholding human rights of Hindus, as per Universal declaration of Human Rights by U.N.
I would like to ask, if I should as a Hindu, if is it not inhuman to ignore human rights of Hindus.
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." — Desmond Tutu. "Truthfulness is better than silence" - Manu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.188.234.236 ( talk) 16:29, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Link to RSN board please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.188.234.236 ( talk) 16:37, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I have mentioned it there before and in fact I am redirected here from the same page. As you mentioned, I do not see going to far with this since this points to the same page from where I got a link to this page. The issue therefore will not go out of these two boards perhaps. The road to hell is truly paved with good intentions. 180.188.234.236 ( talk) 16:51, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
At Foreign relations of the Palestinian National Authority, there are 3 world maps indicating recognition of and relations with Palestine and its derivitive institutions. This thread concerns the last of these maps (shown right), which shows different information from the other two.
The information in this map is supposedly derived from the table in the article, which is sourced. The table is divided into 3 parts:
Unlike in the other 2 maps on the page, there is no neutral colouring for those unclear cases listed in the middle section. Instead, they're rendered as BLUE (i.e., not recognising the State of Palestine). Not only is this inherently confusing to the reader in its deviation from the sourced information in the article, it also shows POV.
The author of the map ( Alinor ( talk · contribs)) insists that discussion between editors will eventually determine to which of the two sections each of these cases belongs, thus rendering as redundant any need for a third colour in the maps. However, given the heavy disagreement between sources on a number of these entries, it is unlikely that anything will be determined regarding their positions any time soon. They have all been in the middle section since last year, while the map has shown them as belonging to the last section.
I agree that inconclusive evidence requires further investigation, but I don't think it's acceptable to show these cases, even in the meantime, as belonging to one category when the article (and the sources) show that they could just as easily belong to the other. Nightw 05:40, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
So what's happening with this. We have three editors asking for neutral colouring on the map. Is it going to happen? Nightw 08:35, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
I didn't agree to changing any of those. Reverted. Nightw 07:55, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
PЄTЄRS, so we should not add additional color for non-official conflicting or inconclusive sources? Alinor ( talk) 08:33, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Please, provide me the diffs where you proposed to make these changes to the maps. Did I consent to the changes? Was I even notified of the proposal? It seems quite poor behaviour to make changes where you know I disagreed and where there was an ongoing discussion over the matter (i.e., this very thread)! The noticeboard concluded that a particular source could not be used to support a particular claim. There are sources to replace it with, but you don't want to use them, and you don't want to open a RS/N thread to discuss them. So the entries will remain where they are, unsourced, until consensus dictates an outcome. Nightw 10:34, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
PЄTЄRS, is this map OK: File:State of Palestine explicit recognition per official sources.png? For comparison see File:SoP recognition and PLO relations.png (corresponding to the map in discussion here) and File:State of Palestine recognition.png. Alinor ( talk) 18:56, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
We have, at last count, seventeen (unless I missed a few) sources attesting false medical information propagated by CPCs; we do not have a single source attesting a CPC that does not propagate false medical information, nor do any of the seventeen sources attesting misinformation say that it is rare. Is the use of the phrase "[CPCs] have routinely been found to disseminate false medical information" justified? Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 08:12, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Note: we have moved on to discussing other ways of wording the sentence. Bobthefish2 has suggested "CPCs have been found," which seems good to me as it is not a quantity, but hopefully will not be viewed by other participants as implying all CPCs. I have also suggested removing the "While they provide information..." part of the sentence which contrasts with the statement. Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 07:54, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
I have been having various disputes with the editor of this article about noteability and NPOV of the article going on for a while now. The article does not provide any reliable third party sources and does not give sources backing up most of the statements made. The history of the article suggests that this is maintained by the companies' marketing or some other insider, given the users edit history. -- Arekusandaa ( talk) 11:15, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi, all. Is the second sentence below a fair and neutral takeaway from the first one?
(1) The WP:RS's sentence: Corwin said she supports abortion rights — but does not support late-term abortions or federal funding for abortion.
(2) Our article's sentence: Corwin supports abortion rights — but is opposed to late-term abortions and federal funding for abortions.
Another editor says it's not, and posted this objection to the talk page for our Jane Corwin article:
I've already spent a couple hours researching and adding cites to this article, and I'm not really interested in spending more time trying to find the press release or interview transcript or whatever it was that this secondary source based its statement on, just to satisfy this editor's demand. Relevant diffs. Help please? Thanks, – OhioStandard ( talk) 02:11, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
The applicability of our NPOV policy and its UNDUE clause is discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Impact of the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami on the video game industry. Editors here may be able to help. Colonel Warden ( talk) 09:31, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
More eyes on this would be greatly helpful. ScottyBerg ( talk) 16:26, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
We are having another dispute on the Weston Price article. The current version has a very misleading statement using the publisher PMPH-USA (whose quality in this field has NOT been proven) while I want to put in the following more accurate version:
The dental part of focal infection fell out of favor in the late 1930s (Thomas J. Pallasch, DDS, MS, and Michael J. Wahl, DDS (2000) "The Focal Infection Theory: Appraisal and Reappraisal", Journal of the California Dental Association.) with a special 1951 issue of the Journal of the American Dental Association stating "Many Authorities who formally felt that focal infection was an important etiologic factor in systemic disease have become skeptical and now recommend less radical procedures in the treatment of such disorders."("An Evaluation of the Effect of Dental Focal Infection on Health" JADA 42:609-697 June 1951) though the idea never disappeared from the dental community.(Editorial. JAMA 1952; 150: 490.) (Bergenholtz, Gunnar; Preben Hørsted-Bindslev, Claes Reit (2009). Textbook of Endodontology. Wiley. pp. 135–136) While, recent discoveries have caused a cautious reevaluation of focal infection in dentistry ((2001) Fowler, Edward B "Periodontal disease and its association with systemic disease" Military Medicine (Jan 2001)) and there are studies on the quality of diet regarding oral health in adults (Bailey, RL (2004) "Persistent oral health problems associated with comorbidity and impaired diet quality in older adults". J Am Diet . Assnc. 104:1273.) these are independent of Weston Price's work.
I have Journal of the California Dental Association, JADA, Wiley, Military Medicine, and J Am Diet . Assnc that show the PMPH-USA is wrong but we are getting NPOV tags thrown up as well as used as an excuse to remove reliable sources.-- BruceGrubb ( talk) 02:19, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
Note on proper use of talk pages
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Another note on proper use of talk pages
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As administrator Will Beback pointed out back in Talk:Weston_Price/Archive_2#Modern_focal_infection_theory_passage " WP:MEDRS limits what we can say about medical topics, so that may be appropriate. But we shouldn't use this article as a backdoor to discuss medical claims that we wouldn't make elsewhere." You cannot ignore the many sources that show the Ingle's Endodontics statement is WRONG. While we are on it here are two more:
"Today the concept of focal infection has been integrated into the practice of medicine. One speaks no longer of the theory of focal infection; one recognizes focal infection as a definite pathologic condition requiring scientific diagnosis and treatment." (1947 Journal of the American Medical Association Volume 133:2 page 111). This statement was repeated word for word in Review of gastroenterology Volume 18 pg 71 of the National Gastroenterological Association in 1951.
You can't claim a theory "fell out of favor in the 1930s" when papers in 1947 and 1951 say it is "a definite pathologic condition requiring scientific diagnosis and treatment." On every point the Ingle's Endodontics is WRONG and no handwaving is going to change that.-- BruceGrubb ( talk) 07:50, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Comment My only concern here is that Price's application of focal infection theory (e.g. the one shared by the dental mainstream for a number of years leading to unnecessary extractions, etc.) is not confused with the focal infection theory, which is a much more general theory. I'm saying this because I agree mostly with Yobol at this point, but with a caveat that I think relates to Bruce's concerns. The sources that do in fact discuss Price and focal infection theory appear not to be doing a very good job differentiating between the two themselves. I think we do need to stick to these sources when discussing Price's connection to the theory, but we should also make sure our readers are not confused in the sense of thinking that the focal infection theory was completely rejected. As far as that is handled with the necessary subtlety I'm happy.
Griswaldo (
talk) 21:46, 19 January 2011 (UTC)'=
Additional note Yobol did this revert. Please explain how identifying the publisher falls under WP:PEACOCK especially given the just the fact example?!? Better yet explain to us how removing the very reference as where the statement was removed qualifies under WP:PEACOCK. Also explain to us why this nonsense is allowed to go on.-- BruceGrubb ( talk) 11:08, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Ingels vs Ingels The really sad thing about this is "PDQ Endodontics" by Ingels clearly states "And even today, cancer and neuroropsychiatric disorders are blamed on focal infection". (...) "In summary, nonsurgical endodontics may be the least likely of dental treatment procedure to produce significant bacteremias in either incidence or magnitude" so even Ingels (2009) says Ignels (2002/2007) is wrong.-- BruceGrubb ( talk) 06:27, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
To make matters worse, when on January 8, 1953, Renmin Ribao [People's Daily], the official propaganda organ for the Communist Party, criticized the occupation of Rukyu Islands(or Okinawa Prefecture) by the United States, it stated that "the Ryukyu Islands are located northeast of our Taiwan Islands...including Senkaku Shoto. According to this statement, the PRC recognized that the Diaoyu (J:Senkaku) Islands were a part of Liuqiu Islands (or Okinawa Prefecture). In other words, the Diaoyu Islands belonged neither to Taiwan nor to mainland China, but to Japan.
With respect to the PRC, a front page news report that appeared on the October 3, 1996 edition of the Sankei Shimbun, reported that the PRC government evidently recognized the disputed islands as Japanese territory as revealed in a government sponsored publication. This particular publication is identified as the January 8, 1953 edition of The Peoples' Daily, China's official party newspaper, in which an article entitled " The People of the Ryukyu Islands Struggle Against American occupation" noted the Senkaku Islands as one of the subgroups of islands that constituted the Ryukyu Islands.
「人民日報」が米軍軍政下の沖縄の尖閣諸島(当時の中国の呼び方のまま. 現在中国は「釣魚島」という)で日本人民の米軍の軍事演習に反対する闘争が行われていると報道. 「琉球諸島はわが国台湾の東北および日本九州島の西南の間の海上に散在し、尖閣諸島、先島諸島、大東諸島、沖縄諸島、大島諸島、吐噶喇諸島、大隅諸島など7つの島嶼からなっている」と紹介(新華月報:1953-7); read Google Chinese-English translation
The People's Daily described the Ryukyu Islands as "dispersed between the northeastern part of our country's Taiwan and the southwestern part of Japan's Kyushu Island" and as including the Senkaku Islands as well as the Sakishima Islands, Maehara said.
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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 15 | ← | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 | → | Archive 25 |
Issue: discussion about the practice of polyandry by Nairs in
Nair article. The issue is no coverage versus moderate coverage.
My argument: Not discussing the ancient practice of polyandry adequately and/or providing a link to
Polyandry among Nairs at the appropriate place in the article is a violation of NPOV.
Evidence: abundant.
please see here for some articles i have listed from JSTOR.
google books,
Nair polyandry in Google scholar,
Nayar polyandry in Google scholar
Previous outside discussions: I have sought ouside opinion at ANI.
User:DGG,
User:EdJohnston,
User:TFOWR and
User:Silver seren have already commented before. I have listed their comments
here for convenience. User:DGG, User:TFOWR and User:Silver seren support a moderate coverage. User:EdJohnston recommended
WP:RFC.
Other side:
Shannon1488 (
talk ·
contribs ·
count),
Thankappan Pillai (
talk ·
contribs ·
count),
Vekramaditya (
talk ·
contribs ·
count),
Pulayan Punchapadam (
talk ·
contribs ·
count) and
Suresh.Varma.123 (
talk ·
contribs ·
count). All of them have no edits outside
Nair and larger section
Kshatriya related articles. Some socks
have been blocked. --
CarTick (
talk) 01:40, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't care whether you want to portray all Nairs as homosexuals or not. But wikipedia should not be used as a propaganda tool. CarTick had an argument with a Nair editor one month ago in the Nadar article. Right after he went for a wiki break, this guy started vandalizing Nair articles. Almost all the Nadar related articles in Wikipedia are full of POV and loaded with anti-Nair hatred. And here is the reason why Polyandry is not relevant to the Nair article:
We have voiced our concerns. If you want to side with Cartick, do it. Unfortunately there is not much I could do about jealousy and inferiority complex. Suresh.Varma.123 ( talk) 02:29, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
If any of you have the time and the inclination would you please take a quick look at this article. It has been tagged as having POV issues and, for the life of me, I can find no POV on the entire page. Per the conversation on the talk page Talk:Greg Hicks a claim is being made that the article is purely promotional, but, to me it looks like most actor articles that are stubs. I think a fresh set of eyes might clear things up. My thanks ahead of time to any editor who can assist in this matter. MarnetteD | Talk 22:43, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Hi. A question about "Philosophy" sections in school and org. articles. Are these sections appropriate, especially when unsourced (as in above article)? Just wanted some other opinions before making an attempt to edit. Thanks, The Interior (Talk) 19:05, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Article in question: Microdermabrasion
Problem: The article is (and has been in all previous edits), no more than an ad for microdermabrasion, a cosmetic procedure. There is no information on potential risks or drawbacks of the procedure. Title headings are things like "How microdermabrasion renews the skin" - that is, non-facts stated as facts. This type of language is not tolerated on other sites e.g. plastic surgery, body cleansing, etc, and should not be tolerated here.
Discussion: Talk:Microdermabrasion Other users have pointed out this problem, and a few of the more egrigious claims (acne removal, scar reduction, etc) have been removed. However, the main issue of Neutral PoV remains in the article proper. One user defended the article saying:
Utter rubbish, yes there are quacks doing this but true professionals get good and even excellent results. It is one of the most popular treatments of the last few years so I doubt it would be that popular if it did not get the results!
Which again fails several tests of bias (it's hearsay, and something being popular doesn't mean it effective, see body cleansing) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jozieg ( talk • contribs) 13:31, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanos5150 ( talk · contribs) insists on removing any criticism of Zecharia Sitchin from the lead section, and burying it farther down in the article. I see this as a violation of both WP:NPOV and MOS:LEAD. Additional experienced opinions welcome, probably better on Talk:Zecharia Sitchin than here. — David Eppstein ( talk) 04:23, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
There is an article that is having POV issues and I have to admit that it is a little on the WP:FRINGE side, but there is WP:UNDUE weight towards debunking instead of being neutral. There is an article Here in regards to Zecharia Sitchin and it was right away squashed as not WP:RS. There are a number of editors and Admins who verge on the WP:OWN regulations and police it without consensuses. Opinion? - Pmedema ( talk) 07:25, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm having a bit of a disagreement with a couple of editors on the Conservatism in the United States article. Rjensen originated and The Four Deuces has perpetuated these changes. I'll copy a portion of my objections from the talk page:
I object to this language on two counts:
1) It is a blatant violation of WP:NPOV to label the Tea Party as "angry conservatives". Certainly we don't see this sort of language at the Tea Party movement article or references to "angry liberals" at Opposition to the Iraq War. While anger is perhaps a socially appropriate emotion in certain contexts, labeling a political movement as "angry" is biased and demeaning.
2) The sources do not support the notion that the Tea Party is universally angry, nor do they support the notion that the Tea Party has "paid little attention to foreign policy". Being split on something and ignoring something are two entirely different concepts. The Tea Party has not ignored foreign policy and the sources do not indicate that they have.
Can I get a POV check on these edits? My primary concern is the lack of multiple, reliable sources to support broad and sweeping assertions. Uncle Dick ( talk) 05:22, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
An RfC is in process here, the purpose of which is to decide which version best fulfills this directive in terms of Wikipedia policies and standards. Version 1 Version 2
Comments are solicited from participants of this noticeboard.. Tom Reedy ( talk) 13:36, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
On the GNU_Multi-Precision_Library article there is one anonymous user from Stockholm ( 90.132.75.8, 81.225.14.148, 130.237.222.220, 81.225.10.223 , 83.185.6.75, 130.237.222.220 ) that is repeatedly removing, without giving sound justifications, a wiki link to MPIR, a fork of GMP.
The line that is repeatedly removed is the following one:
Main argument for keeping it as given by a couple of users ( ALoopingIcon and MTarini):
Main argument for not having MPIR cited in the GMP article:
Given the fact that MPIR is a legitimate fork, and that the knowledge of this fork can be useful to a variety of user of the library (e.g. the ones that require compiling GMP using microsoft compilers, something that the GMP community actively does not support) I would ask to keep the link. I have stopped reverting the removal of the anonymous user to not incur in the WP:3RR. I could be wrong, but googling around it seems that the MPIR fork was not a smooth one, so there could be some NPOV issues in the anonymous user's steady will of continuously removing MPIR references. ALoopingIcon ( talk) 11:26, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
This article reads like a press release. If you google Arthur Wolk, the top links are about his unsuccessful libel lawsuits; he has sued over thirty different people or organizations for libel, and has never won a libel case in court. I looked up the Wolk article after reading about his threat to sue Reason for writing about his libel lawsuits, and found that the article was nothing but advertising. Two editors (one of whom who has said he is drafting this article on Wolk's behalf) keep deleting my attempt to add well-sourced discussion of his libel lawsuits, which are notable and have received press coverage in multiple sources. They argue that I cite to primary sources (though I cite to secondary sources, too), but the article is full of primary sources and mentions of cases that don't have any secondary sources. I have classes and work and my edits get deleted as soon as I make them by editors who have all day to spend on Wikipedia, so I will drop the issue, but it seems unfair that someone can use Wikipedia to advertise like that. (Note: Boo is a single-purpose account because I don't want Arthur Wolk to sue me for my regular account and Wolk threatens to sue anyone who writes about him. [2] I got accused of a conflict of interest, but the other editor who has done nothing but write about Wolk on Wolk's behalf hasn't. I'll stop using this account.) Boo the puppy ( talk) 12:34, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
A summary of this issue is available at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Usage_share_of_web_browsers#Vote_again_-_about_removing_regional_stats_in_summary . Again in summary editors agree there is bias. One group of editors wish to remove sources that have obvious bias for browser usage share statistics, summary, and intro reporting. Another group claims that all sources have bias and prefer to add more sources as to mitigate the bias. Would appreciate your thoughts and comments on this issue. Because of the controversy I deleted the summary statistics in the summary table. But there remains an issue of which source(s) to use in the wp:lead. Thanks, Daniel.Cardenas ( talk) 21:25, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
DavidR2010 (
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The Article in question is here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MonaVie
After reading the source articles I think that this could possibly be an attack attempt on the company. Could we have it checked for misrepresenting sources,fact finding and Neutrality please?
Some notes to consider:
Monavie Talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:MonaVie
Thanks
DavidR2010 (
talk) 13:42, 7 November 2010 (UTC)DavidR2010
DavidR2010 (
talk) 13:42, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
I think I understand now so you are saying that it is mainly this PDF this is the main source of what is written in the wikipedia article about MonaVie? DavidR2010 ( talk) 04:37, 8 November 2010 (UTC)DavidR2010 DavidR2010 ( talk) 04:37, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
If this is the final conclusion then leave no reply and I will take these findings back to the talk page in order to attempt to achieve consensus. DavidR2010 ( talk) 05:13, 8 November 2010 (UTC)DavidR2010 DavidR2010 ( talk) 05:13, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm pretty convinced something fishy is going on here there is quite a bit of slander of that company in that article with little proof to back it up. This source here http://www.amquix.info/pdfs/monavie/2-08-cv-00209-db-02.pdf is merely a complaint made by attorneys of a competing company how can that even be a reliable source. Yeah those guys didn't raise any good points either are you friends with them? I think you are a WP:IDHT Thank you. DavidR2010 ( talk) 06:56, 8 November 2010 (UTC)DavidR2010 DavidR2010 ( talk) 06:56, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
A single editor is responsible for adding considerable content to Paul Robeson and creating related articles, including Paul Robeson and the labor movement, Paul Robeson and Jackie Robinson, and Paul Robeson and communism. Together with considerable positive content, she has left an incredible amount of POV in those articles, and attempts to discuss the issue with her at Talk:Paul Robeson have been fruitless.
Can some fresh eyes take a look at the articles and chime in. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz Talk/ Stalk 22:54, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
"attempts to discuss the issue with her at Talk:Paul Robeson have been fruitless."
I appreciate this forum and the time you are giving the article but that above assessment is a tad biased and I feel you know this Malik. I have not only gone into articles and removed as much POV as possible (please see the changes made in the past few weeks) I am not responsible for all of it! I was faced with a very short article about a very complex and hugely world famous 20th century figure mired in pov and editing conflicts and who's life spanned the era when black children's parents had been former slaves up until 1976. I did the best I could and still really want to improve what is there and make it much, much better than it is while working with others.
There are numerous urban myths and conflicting accounts surrounding key parts of his life. Much of what I see as an issue is stemming from the fact that this was a once an immensely famous international figure who has been mostly written out of history so therefore one has to explain: 1.Why he was one of the most famous Americans of his time 2.Why he was is unknown now 3.Why he was once considered a threat to the power structure on two continents 4.Why he was considered a Communist sympathizer
all without any povs and taking into consideration that Robeson's opinions/writings should ideally be quoted as often as possible. Robeson stayed silent on many of his views towards the end of the red scare but in tandem maintained his opinions in his autobiography had never changed. Regarding the CP/USSR which seems to be the flash point for everyone, I think there DOES need to be a separate article. It is a huge source of controversy with lies propagated by both sides of the spectrum. I have added to both articles, cited sections that feature many of his views and actions regarding the USSR/CP that the Left wants sanitized but many conservatives are still very upset. My solution is that we offer the reader a very well cited section of the article with abbreviated theories about his Communist views by the far right, right, liberal, left, far left historians and all of his major biographers. This can edited in a similar fashion to this article (much more brief of course): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theories
As stated before, if someone of minute historical stature like Jessica Simpson warrants a portal and numerous sub articles, it is ludicrous to not have an in-depth availability of Robeson study in a similar fashion for his massive work with Labour unions in the US and abroad and the incident with Jackie Robinson. It is also saddening that he is invisible on all the Civil Rights portals and articles and has no portal and project of his own, he was active in Civil Rights his entire life. Catherine Huebscher ( talk) 8:08, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
itsmeudith, Hi thanks for your feedback. I will take your advice.
Str1977: Anyone can go read what I wrote for themselves and see you are false. "The Belgian Congo does not approach the scope of Stalin"s horror" you say? Had their never been western European conservative right wing Christian/Catholic lust for slavery and imperialism and a ruthless monarchy (which was buttressed by the former) there never would have been a Stalin or a Marx. Do realize that when I moved material to the PR and CP sub-article that much of that NOT mine. I moved it, cited it and tried to flesh it out. Once again, so much is unproven conjecture. Even I wrote, with no sound scholarly proof other than his son's claim (which could be easily called bias and thrown out) that he was "aware of state sponsored murder by the USSR" I put that in so bias can I be? You just seem to want him put in the "convenient idiot box" and it can't be done.
As for the power structure Robeson supported that would first and foremost always be the United States. Post war II when that same power structure failed to end the systematic apartheid and wholesale genocide of blacks and even merrily lauded it (John Rankin added: "After all, the KKK is an old American institution.") Even then he still supported pro-American domestic causes like civil rights and trade unions. He also WAS a threat to the USSR in speaking out about Feffer in Tchaikovsky Hall. I said TWO continents. First and foremost , Robeson wanted PEACE with the USSR and globally. He did not want the USA to be telling other countries how to govern themselves. Catherine Huebscher ( talk) 7:28, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
I have been trying to put in a piece correcting a very common misconception that Weston Price was called "The Charles Darwin of Nutrition". However I have hit a snag with two editors. One doesn't seem to understand that is to correct an already existing problem ( Talk:Weston_Price) and the other is hung up on the quality of the second source ignoring the fact it is basically parroting the higher quality first source
Here is the latest version of the piece:
However, an article in the 1950 edition of American Otological Society's journal The Laryngoscope stated the opinion that "Dr. Price might well be called "The Charles Darwin of Nutrition" and this was repeated nearly word for word in Modern nutrition the publication of American Academy of Nutrition who Price had had given his complete nutrition library to shortly before his death.((1950) The Laryngoscope, Volume 60; American Otological Society)((1951) Modern nutrition: Volumes 4-7; American Academy of Nutrition; pg 32). This statement of opinion would be presented as fact many decades later.
Given:
My questions to my fellow editors are:
Can I see if I've got this straight? The argument is over whether the article should include the statement that "Weston Price has been called the Charles Darwin of nutrition", (compare Lizst as "the Paganini of the piano"), and sourced primarily to the academic journal Laryngoscope. Is that right? VsevolodKrolikov ( talk) 06:41, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Seriously, it would be really helpful if one of you could provide a concise description of the editing action that is in dispute. That is, the text and the sourcing, without a commentary attached telling outside editors what you think of it. It's very difficult to give input when it's not clear what the specific edit action proposed is. To be honest, my immediate impression is that you don't agree on what that edit action is, so let's work on that first. VsevolodKrolikov ( talk) 10:04, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
This is rather marvelous progress. VsevolodKrolikov, thank you greatly for your input here. I think this is a positive solution to the problem being discussed. Griswaldo ( talk) 14:26, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
An editor named Leadwind is deleting a lot of cited material off of Gospel of Luke and with it pushing a heavily skewed POV. He is deleting material because he says the publishers are "sectarian" even though they are some of the largest and most recognzied publishers in the world. Unfortunately I am outnumbered and cannot do a whole lot, but his reasons for deleting "sectarian" material certainly go against wikipedia policy. Will some editors go over there and look at some of his edits as well as the talk page? RomanHistorian ( talk) 15:33, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
This article explains an ongoing dispute over ownership of a small group of islands between PRC, ROC, and Japan. While much about this article is in dispute, I need input on a single sentence that we've been arguing about for a long time. The sentence is:
According to the best translations we have (which have been confirmed by native Chinese speakers and as far as I know not been disputed by any editors), what the People's Daily article explicitly states with respect to the Senkaku Islands is:
The seven references in the sentence in our article are from two divisions of the Japanese government, a Japanese newspaper, a Chinese book, and a two US researchers. All of these sources believe that the above quotation from People's Daily means that, in 1953, the Chinese government (its assumed that People's Daily prints only officially approved opinions) considered the Senkaku Islands to be a part of Japanese territory. Now, I will say, this is a pretty believable analysis. My concern for the article, though, comes from exactly how we treat and attribute the sentence with regards to WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV.
Specifically, as far as our translations show, the People's Daily article never explicitly states that Senkaku Islands are a part of Japanese territory. As such, it appears, to me (and some other editors, although not the majority), that the claim that PD said that is an opinion, and thus must be explicitly attributed per WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV. As such, I have argued that what our article should state is something like the following (exact wording is flexible):
Opposing editors argue, essentially, that it is not nor has it ever been in dispute that China always considered Okinawa a part of Japanese territory (a claim I have no ability to evaluate, nor do I think is relevant), and thus it's not really an interpretation or opinion to make the transitive analysis that Senkaku Islands = Okinawa = Japanese territory. So, NPOV board, is this really, as I believe, an issue of the need to attribute NPOV, thus governed directly by policy? Or is this merely an editorial decision governed primarily by editorial consensus? Qwyrxian ( talk) 00:14, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Our policy is plain, straightforward:
( talk) 01:09, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Qwyrxian, you ignored a discussion whether such weird attribution is necessary in Japanese POV section " Arguments from Japan". Are you going to change the wording each time a new citation is added to the sentence? ―― Phoenix7777 ( talk) 03:59, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Comment - Looking at the actual wording in the sources cited for the statement, it's difficult to understand how it has been transformed into a statement of fact in the Wiki article that takes the form "the People's Daily said the Senkaku islands are Japanese territory". That isn't what the sources say. The current statement does look like an unattributed interpretation of what the People's Daily published so I think Qwyrxian is making a fair point policy-wise. Sean.hoyland - talk 04:57, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
My view is that the current wording is unsatisfactory. However, I do think that the article - if only indirectly - was acknowledging Japanese sovereignty over the Senkaku Islands. As far as I know the Ryuku Islands have been considered Japanese territory for over a century. Accordingly if the People's Daily clearly stated that the islands were part of the Ryuku chain, that meant they were Japanese as well.
I suggested something along the lines of "An article in the P-D...organ of.... on DATE acknowledged Japanese control of the Senkaku Islands, when it said that QUOTE." Control is probably the wrong word, but I was trying to improve on the current situation by making it clear why the article was acknowledging that these islands were Japanese. John Smith's ( talk) 20:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
The People's Daily article sheds little light on what the position of the Chinese government was in 1953. Government control, especially in 1953, did not include intensive consultations with diplomats and international lawyers with respect to every statement. The quotation can be used, but used, exploited, is the operative word. Information about that use, if adequately sourced, can be included in the article, but not as evidence of the considered position of the People's Republic of China. User:Fred Bauder Talk 14:44, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Our problem is not easy; and it is mis-parsed because of factors Qwyrxian failed to identify.
In the same manner, the People's Daily article is part of a list which is significant in the context of counter-argument. In this NPOV thread, both (a) the existence of a Senkaku Islands counter-argument list and (b) the subject of the argument/counter-argument remain unacknowledged.
It is noteworthy that subject
Qwyrxian does not acknowledge is
venire contra factum proprium. This is non-trivial in the
Senkaku Islands dispute.
This thread has a skewed perspective because we have not addressed the essential, irreducible threshold in which WP:V + WP:RS is more important than zero citations from zero reliable sources.
When threshold issues are glossed over, it produces unanticipated consequences. -- Tenmei ( talk) 21:10, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
My apologies. I knew it was a subsidiary of Encyclopedia Britannica, but didn't realize Her Majesty's Encyclopedia now belongs to Americans. However, since you apparently require help for such trivial task of reading comprehension, let me give you a hand:
Now, can you tell me how the Japanese managed to have sovereignty over Ryukyu Islands when they practically had no power over the islands? Bobthefish2 ( talk) 01:45, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
To summarise; someone feels we should use Japanese sources to verify the stance of China in a conflict between the two and in a manner that is clearly favorable to Japan. Could someone tell me why we consider these sources reliable in this context? Because that makes no sense to me. Taemyr ( talk) 19:18, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
I support Qwyrxian's reasoning on this issue. STSC ( talk) 16:34, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
An edit was proposed during a mediation to deal with accuracy issues in the article Gibraltar. This proposed replacing
“ | On 4 August 1704, during the War of the Spanish Succession, a combined Anglo-Dutch force captured the town of Gibraltar." | ” |
with
“ | During the War of the Spanish Succession, in August 1704, Gibraltar was captured by a largely Anglo-Dutch force in support of the Archduke Charles, the Hapsburg claimant to the Spanish throne. | ” |
The sentence is accurate, supported by reliable sources and provides more accurate information than currently. The accuracy of the statement is not disputed, rather those opposing it insist that if it is changed, then it must be followed by the caveat:
“ | It was soon under de facto British control. | ” |
There are a couple of national narratives to consider here. Generally, Gibraltarians insist that Gibraltar has been British since 1704. Previously, based on the account of Ayala it was the Spanish claim that the British captured Gibraltar in the name of Queen Anne. Both national narratives are rejected by modern scholars, both British and Spanish, eg Hills, Jackson, Bradford and Sepulveda. The mainstream opinions support the fact that Gibraltar was captured by a force under the command of Prince George of Hesse-Darmstadt on behalf of Charles III, the Austrian pretender to the Spanish throne.
However, there are a diverse range of opinions among historians as to the point at which the British obtained control over Gibraltar. For example, the British historian George Hills demonstrated that Gibraltar was considered a Hapsburg posesssion until 1712 and suggests Britain started to acquire de facto control from 1708, while the former Governor Sir William Jackson states in his book Gibraltar remained an Anglo-Dutch base until March 1713, only becoming British following Utrecht. This debate is far from settled and there is a wide range of opinions in the literature.
Hence, I do not consider that the caveat as demanded is either accurate or compliant with our policy of a NPOV, which suggest that if appropriate the range of opinions in the literature should be represented. Such a bald statement coming straight after a sentence referring to the events of 1704 rather infers that the British were immediately in control, something not supported by the range of opinions in the literature.
The counter argument has been to search through google books, using google snippets to find fragments of text that appear to support the simple caveat above ie searches predicated on satisfying the edit rather than looking at the literature to see what the weight of opinion is. See WP:RSN#Google Snippets regarding the reliability of this as a source. The argument presented is that these snippets are suitable cites and the diverse range of opinion in the literature can thus be ignored.
I would welcome outside opinion. Thank you. Wee Curry Monster talk 13:22, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I have a concern regarding the separation of facts from points of view in the article in French about the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA). It would be more in line with Wikipedia’s Neutral point of view policy and Wikipedia: Criticism guidelines if points of view were collated in a separate section. These guidelines state that “criticism that is integrated into the article should not disrupt the article or section’s flow”.
The citations in this article criticising EFSA’s work are currently published in sections to which they are not directly related. For example, the section explaining EFSA’s objectives also contains specific statements outlining points of view regarding EFSA staff and other detailed information not related to EFSA’s core remit. These would be more appropriately included in a section clearly identified as containing points of view.
The articles in other languages about EFSA follow a different structure and any criticism is presented in a separate section, such as in the German version.
I am an editor at EFSA. In line with Wikipedia’s rules regarding conflicts of interest we should and will not edit the article ourselves. We have tried to ask for a modification of the structure on the talk page of the article but have received no responses. This is why we are asking for your advice or help in this matter. Thank you in advance.
-- Haga Caroline ( talk) 10:37, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Hello,
The user Reisio has started PoV editions on these two articles by redirecting both pages to the ones related to Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, while these pages were disambiguation ones explaining the fact that the territory of Western Sahara is disputed and offering an overview of the Flag/CoA of each claimant.
I tried to explain to him [4] the WP:NPoV case related to these articles, and that any redirection to Morocco's or SADR's Flag/CoA is clearly PoV but I didn't succeed (and I will make no comment about his answer [5]).
If an admin can explain this thing to him, it will be nice.
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Omar-Toons (
talk) 01:40, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Western Sahara is a physical territory/area, not an political entity. It doesn't have flag and coat of arms. Morocco and the Sahrawi Republic (the two political entities claiming the Western Sahara territory/area) have flags and coats of arms. So, IMHO the pages Coat of arms of Western Sahara and Flag of Western Sahara should be disambiguation pages simply including links to Coat of arms of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, Coat of arms of Morocco, Flag of Morocco and Flag of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic. Alinor ( talk) 08:33, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
@ Omar-Toons - re "there are no "Southern provinces' flag"" - Believe that there are flags for each of the three provinces, no? (e.g. [11], [12]). NickCT ( talk) 19:57, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
There are controversies over this goddess, in particular her possible row as "God's wife" (see all the publicity on the new BBC2 dcoumentary on this, not yet in the article) and as "Queen of Heaven". These are covered by a section heading simply labelled 'Controversy' which I don't see as helpful. I changed this to "As God's wife and Queen of Heaven" to make it clear what the section is about, and this was reverted [14] with an edit summary "(Rv - 'controversy' is far more factual)". What would be an NPOV heading that allowed the readers to quickly see in the toc what this is about? Thanks. Dougweller ( talk) 13:07, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
I don't have time to investigate this properly, but some recent edits by a new user have introduced a lot of text, some of which seems to violate this policy [15]. See also a couple of edits at Al-Azhar_University [16]. -- Copper button 18:53, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Did the Armenians deserve to be deported and exterminated because they revolted and because Muslims also died during that time?. Thank you. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 14:31, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
"violent and extreme viral campaign"? How violent can a viral marketing campaign get? This seems to me to reek of BLP violations all over the farm, but I don't know the players well enough to comment beyond that. -- Orange Mike | Talk 14:47, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
I could really use some help or advice for this article on general neutrality issues. The current version of the article suggests that although there is criticism, there is equally valid scientific support for the test. My impression is that the MBTI is generally not accepted as a valid psychometric tool in psychology, and that the evidence is overwhelmingly not supportive of it. And I think it might be the case that most of the studies supporting it have connections with the same people who sell the test. I could be very wrong about this, but I'm having some trouble finding what the actual scientific consensus is on this issue. -- Aronoel ( talk) 22:01, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_medicine
The content featured on this page conveys a consistently *negative* slant of TCM, a slant that is generally inconsistant with the majority of accepted views of TCM. This issue has been addressed on the Talk board:
"I logged on to read about TCM today, and this page is in desperate need of some moderation. It reads like it's been written by someone with a personal vendetta against Traditional Chinese Medicine! I'm a western person and see MDs like the rest of us, but these articles are supposed to teach objectively, providing a balanced portrayal of a subject. Instead, every paragraph follows with statements attacking the credibility of TCM or bringing up controversial issues that may or may not be true (because they don't have citations), and re-using old stereotypes that everyone knows are not true (ie, "Snake Oil" isn't even used by TCM practitioners, according to my acupuncturist!)
Anyway, my problem isn't just that things aren't cited. The big problem here is that even the things that ARE cited are simply very slanted or misleading, highlighting only one side of controversial issues that, ultimately, really only ought to be in ONE of the later sections of the article. Why doesn't this article begin like a history book, explaining the origins and practices of the medicine, rather than begin with attacks on whether or not TCM holds up to scientific rigor, etc? For example, why would the oldest and the planet's single largest medical system contain these sentences in the INTRODUCTION (!) (one being in the first paragraph!): "TCM is subject to criticism regarding a number of issues," "It uses metaphysical principles that have no correlates in science based medicine, and would generally be rejected by it", "...found to be ineffective...contain dangerous toxins," "ineffective medicines" etc? These things may or may not be true--this is beside the point. They're just extremely biased, and I, furthermore, challenge the neutrality and organization of this article.
Finally, how is it that 7 of the 8 photos on this page are of grotesque or controversial animal substances yet some basic internet research reveals that the VAST majority of substances used in TCM practice today are simple PLANTS (most of which seem to also be native to north American traditions). Obviously there are also some definite controversies that should be mentioned, in this article, but that ought to be put in a section to deal with skepticism and criticisms. This article is just so very misleading in layout and organization. It seems odd that the medicine that lasted 3,000 years of practice (something you don't learn reading this article) would have endured all the cultural and political invasions it did if this article were representative of its merits. I'm not asking for a pro-TCM page, but let's seriously organize this thing like adults."
It seems that whenever the information is updated and the offensive pictures are removed (the "snake oil" advertisement, the pictures of human fetuses, etc) they are almost immediately reposted. I am concerened that someone out there has a personal vendetta against TCM, and has made it their mission to make this medicine look as negative as possible, in spite of the many documented positive benefits of traditional chinese medicine. Please look into this, as this consistently interferes with wikipedia's stance on neutrality and is an unfair assessment of TCM and it's practitioners.
Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vantagelogic ( talk • contribs) 07:35, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
— Vantagelogic ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Hello, it is being discussed whether the georeferenced image illustrating the GH topography and Template:Location_map_Golan_Heights based on it are violating Wikipedia neutrality principle. Thank you for your input. AgadaUrbanit ( talk) 10:19, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
— this is a recipe for going in perpetual POV circles
— these are ways to guarantee NPOV:
—
Biosketch (
talk) 23:40, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Your comments on these maps does not address the issues I have brought up above. Again: It is putting Israel in the same position as Syria to a place internationally recognized as part of Syria, neither northern Cyprus or Falkland Islands are internationally recognized as part of Turkey or Britain.-- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 23:55, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
comment - My preference for the infobox would be to have a simple map similar to say Western Sahara, a (corrected) topo map in addition would be good too.
However, I have to say that to an innocent passer-by reading this thread it might almost seem that SD is disruptively trying to impose a Syrian nationalist view of a dispute between 2 equal parties, Israel and Syria, onto poor old Wikipedia. In fact, SD is simply advocating the use of a map and not tampering with a map produced by Israel's closest ally, the United States, that accurately represents the consensus view of the international community. The dispute is Israel vs the international community, not Israel vs Syria.
In Wikipedia, in this topic area, an editor who advocates not tampering with reliably sourced information that accurately represents the consensus view of the international community can be accused of POV pushing both on an off wiki. Think about the craziness of that. It's like the creationist Discovery Institute running the talk page of the evolution article. It would never be allowed to happen there.
Having said all that, I see no need to use that map in the infobox although I see no reason not to use it. The infobox doesn't need to deal with the political aspects. The CIA map, unaltered, could be used in the current status section. Removing the factually accurate "Israeli occupied" label as has been done in File:Golan heights rel89B.jpg makes a neutral map non-neutral. That is the kind of thing policy-minded editors should be complaining and filing AE requests about. Sean.hoyland - talk 09:20, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
I, and some other editor as indicated by the edit history, think that material published in the Journal of Global Drug Policy and Practice is unworthy equal validity and thus that one other editor is breaking WP:VALID and WP:UNDUE when insisting on including specific findings into the article Insite. We additionally think that the journal, despite its claims to the contrary, lacks peer-review. The other editor lay more weight with the journals self-stated status while at least I think that is a violation of WP:3PARTY. The other editor brought it to WP:RSN where the discussion is inconclusive ( here). Nobody is really say that the article can't be cited, it already where before the other editor started edit the Insite article. The disagreement is rather for what it can be cited. So I where recommended to bring it here.
This is some quotes on the journal indicating lack of credibility and lack of peer-review:
Additionally:
I would appreciate comments on this. Steinberger ( talk) 23:00, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_YouTube_personalities#Ted_Williams_but_not_RWJ.3F
Basically my question is whether a neutral point of view is a requirement for a source to be considered 'a go'? I thought that was a requirement for writing an article and not explicitly a concern for sources. I know the specific link likely doesn't qualify for other reasons, but this question I feel is something I should know. 72.209.160.88 ( talk) 14:06, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
As of late, a new user has taken steps to turn the page on the " Redemption" conspiracy theories into blatant advocacy. -- Lenin and McCarthy | ( Complain here) 06:15, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Disregard: Nothing to see here except a clear case of WP:OVERREACT and possibly WP:BULLY because a blatantly WP:POV article is now being shifted towards a more neutral presentation. Visitor10001 is indeed a new user and I have counseled him in edit summaries, in several instances of the article's talk page and on his personal user page on how to deal with opposing editors on a controversial article. The Wiki-Jungle has a steep learning curve but it appears that he is trying to get the hang of it. Though I personally disagree with Visitor10001's position I defend his right to be heard and for his views to be included in a reasonable discussion because the end result should be a more rounded and useful article to readers of all flavors.
Frankly, the direction this article is now taking is unsettling.
Visitor is trying to defend something that doesn't work. If the people who try to use this are lucky, they'll just get their "bills of exchange," or whatever some variation used calls them, refused. If not, they'll just get charged with fraud. What seems to be happening is that this reality is now being framed as merely a "government POV." It is set up against the words of one "investigative journalist" who was convicted for counterfeiting for trying this. -- Lenin and McCarthy | ( Complain here) 17:43, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
And as for point 4, I felt that, given the relative lack of editors on the page, there wouldn't be much of a debate on the talk page. -- Lenin and McCarthy | ( Complain here) 17:59, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
The Sunday Times has been discussed previously on the reliable sources noticeboard. [31] I am of the opinion that the material, recently removed, is OK. Here is a bit of discussion on the talk page. The editor who wants the material gone said "The article referred to NICE in three places whereas at no point has Palin referred to NICE in the UK. Referencing NICE three times was undue weight." Jesanj ( talk) 00:52, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
(outdent) It is misleading if they say "Palin was referring to" when they have no reason to say that and our job is to inform and not to mislead the WP reader. If this was a comment section then I agree we could take this as the opinion of the writers. But clearly this is not an opinion piece. It is supposedly factual reporting and from that point of view we can definitely conclude that because Palin made no reference to NICE (or anything like it) it is very clearly inaccurate reporting. As I say this is verifiable as to the fact that the reporters reported inaccurately but it cannot be used to verify that this is what Palin was referring to because of the weight of reporting to the contrary. It is also undue weight to refer to NICE three times in the article when the view that she was referring to anything to do with the UK is not held by any American sources. As I say, if these were the only sources we had for Palin's intention then we would be obliged to use these statements. But we have lots of other sources so we can verify that these were inaccurate reports. Mentioning NICE three times when we know that Palin had not been talking about NICE is WP:UNDUE on a grand scale. Putting it in its own subsection would only add to the weight. I have left one reference in the article to NICE. Three was just way too many. Hauskalainen ( talk) 19:33, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi, It has been an accepted behavior to pass off The Economist as a "reliable source of the highest order" from many sides as I have been reading. Though I would like to point out a few things, that seems to form a little pattern of bias against people of a particular religion viz. Hinduism.
I would like to point this our with hard facts. As it is, uncivilized barbaric events are difficult to describe in civil forms. Let me start by saying plainly therefore that ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Pandits out of Kashmir region, J&K state, India, was a barbarian torturous "act" for all the Hindus. Same goes for burning of Hindu pilgrims of Godhra region in Gujarat state, India. These two are inhuman 'acts' of the lowest order, considering how ethnic natives residing in Kashmir since time immemorial have been brutalized and made to flee or how women and children pilgrims were burnt alive. These are rare 'acts' in deed, as no region ever tortures pilgrims and indulges in ethnic cleansing of whole set of religious hardworking people.
The Economist has hardly any words reserved, from its "reliable sources of the highest order", for these "acts". The Kashmiri Pandits living as refugees in their own countries, or those pilgrims who were burnt alive, can hardly stand up and get counted against this unfair treatment by silence of "the reliable source of the highest order". Any reporting from the Economist, or for that matter any good reference media, is conspicuous by absence of reporting these 'acts' from the viewpoint of Hindus who suffered (thus forming the bias - If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor - Desond Tutu), unlike its articles, perhaps correctly or not, reporting from viewpoint of Muslims about Narendra Modi( http://www.economist.com/node/10251282?story_id=10251282).
On the other hand, the Economist has passed off troubles in Kashmir state as a result of mistreatment and a little by Pakistani militants, without exhaustive consideration of all sides viz. Indian State, Kashmiri Pandits, all other minorities in J&K state like Budhdhists, Sikhs other than Hindus, and so on. Same goes for demeaning elected Govt. in Gujarat state of India.
My point is therefore simple, do what you want to but don't call the Economist as a "reliable source of the highest order" as far as anything related to Hinduism is considered. The question here is of balanced views(and its importance in reporting refer canons of journalism http://www.superiorclipping.com/canons.html), though an indication may come from its funding from people who have no interest in upholding human rights of Hindus, as per Universal declaration of Human Rights by U.N.
I would like to ask, if I should as a Hindu, if is it not inhuman to ignore human rights of Hindus.
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." — Desmond Tutu. "Truthfulness is better than silence" - Manu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.188.234.236 ( talk) 16:29, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Link to RSN board please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.188.234.236 ( talk) 16:37, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I have mentioned it there before and in fact I am redirected here from the same page. As you mentioned, I do not see going to far with this since this points to the same page from where I got a link to this page. The issue therefore will not go out of these two boards perhaps. The road to hell is truly paved with good intentions. 180.188.234.236 ( talk) 16:51, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
At Foreign relations of the Palestinian National Authority, there are 3 world maps indicating recognition of and relations with Palestine and its derivitive institutions. This thread concerns the last of these maps (shown right), which shows different information from the other two.
The information in this map is supposedly derived from the table in the article, which is sourced. The table is divided into 3 parts:
Unlike in the other 2 maps on the page, there is no neutral colouring for those unclear cases listed in the middle section. Instead, they're rendered as BLUE (i.e., not recognising the State of Palestine). Not only is this inherently confusing to the reader in its deviation from the sourced information in the article, it also shows POV.
The author of the map ( Alinor ( talk · contribs)) insists that discussion between editors will eventually determine to which of the two sections each of these cases belongs, thus rendering as redundant any need for a third colour in the maps. However, given the heavy disagreement between sources on a number of these entries, it is unlikely that anything will be determined regarding their positions any time soon. They have all been in the middle section since last year, while the map has shown them as belonging to the last section.
I agree that inconclusive evidence requires further investigation, but I don't think it's acceptable to show these cases, even in the meantime, as belonging to one category when the article (and the sources) show that they could just as easily belong to the other. Nightw 05:40, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
So what's happening with this. We have three editors asking for neutral colouring on the map. Is it going to happen? Nightw 08:35, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
I didn't agree to changing any of those. Reverted. Nightw 07:55, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
PЄTЄRS, so we should not add additional color for non-official conflicting or inconclusive sources? Alinor ( talk) 08:33, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Please, provide me the diffs where you proposed to make these changes to the maps. Did I consent to the changes? Was I even notified of the proposal? It seems quite poor behaviour to make changes where you know I disagreed and where there was an ongoing discussion over the matter (i.e., this very thread)! The noticeboard concluded that a particular source could not be used to support a particular claim. There are sources to replace it with, but you don't want to use them, and you don't want to open a RS/N thread to discuss them. So the entries will remain where they are, unsourced, until consensus dictates an outcome. Nightw 10:34, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
PЄTЄRS, is this map OK: File:State of Palestine explicit recognition per official sources.png? For comparison see File:SoP recognition and PLO relations.png (corresponding to the map in discussion here) and File:State of Palestine recognition.png. Alinor ( talk) 18:56, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
We have, at last count, seventeen (unless I missed a few) sources attesting false medical information propagated by CPCs; we do not have a single source attesting a CPC that does not propagate false medical information, nor do any of the seventeen sources attesting misinformation say that it is rare. Is the use of the phrase "[CPCs] have routinely been found to disseminate false medical information" justified? Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 08:12, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Note: we have moved on to discussing other ways of wording the sentence. Bobthefish2 has suggested "CPCs have been found," which seems good to me as it is not a quantity, but hopefully will not be viewed by other participants as implying all CPCs. I have also suggested removing the "While they provide information..." part of the sentence which contrasts with the statement. Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 07:54, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
I have been having various disputes with the editor of this article about noteability and NPOV of the article going on for a while now. The article does not provide any reliable third party sources and does not give sources backing up most of the statements made. The history of the article suggests that this is maintained by the companies' marketing or some other insider, given the users edit history. -- Arekusandaa ( talk) 11:15, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi, all. Is the second sentence below a fair and neutral takeaway from the first one?
(1) The WP:RS's sentence: Corwin said she supports abortion rights — but does not support late-term abortions or federal funding for abortion.
(2) Our article's sentence: Corwin supports abortion rights — but is opposed to late-term abortions and federal funding for abortions.
Another editor says it's not, and posted this objection to the talk page for our Jane Corwin article:
I've already spent a couple hours researching and adding cites to this article, and I'm not really interested in spending more time trying to find the press release or interview transcript or whatever it was that this secondary source based its statement on, just to satisfy this editor's demand. Relevant diffs. Help please? Thanks, – OhioStandard ( talk) 02:11, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
The applicability of our NPOV policy and its UNDUE clause is discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Impact of the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami on the video game industry. Editors here may be able to help. Colonel Warden ( talk) 09:31, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
More eyes on this would be greatly helpful. ScottyBerg ( talk) 16:26, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
We are having another dispute on the Weston Price article. The current version has a very misleading statement using the publisher PMPH-USA (whose quality in this field has NOT been proven) while I want to put in the following more accurate version:
The dental part of focal infection fell out of favor in the late 1930s (Thomas J. Pallasch, DDS, MS, and Michael J. Wahl, DDS (2000) "The Focal Infection Theory: Appraisal and Reappraisal", Journal of the California Dental Association.) with a special 1951 issue of the Journal of the American Dental Association stating "Many Authorities who formally felt that focal infection was an important etiologic factor in systemic disease have become skeptical and now recommend less radical procedures in the treatment of such disorders."("An Evaluation of the Effect of Dental Focal Infection on Health" JADA 42:609-697 June 1951) though the idea never disappeared from the dental community.(Editorial. JAMA 1952; 150: 490.) (Bergenholtz, Gunnar; Preben Hørsted-Bindslev, Claes Reit (2009). Textbook of Endodontology. Wiley. pp. 135–136) While, recent discoveries have caused a cautious reevaluation of focal infection in dentistry ((2001) Fowler, Edward B "Periodontal disease and its association with systemic disease" Military Medicine (Jan 2001)) and there are studies on the quality of diet regarding oral health in adults (Bailey, RL (2004) "Persistent oral health problems associated with comorbidity and impaired diet quality in older adults". J Am Diet . Assnc. 104:1273.) these are independent of Weston Price's work.
I have Journal of the California Dental Association, JADA, Wiley, Military Medicine, and J Am Diet . Assnc that show the PMPH-USA is wrong but we are getting NPOV tags thrown up as well as used as an excuse to remove reliable sources.-- BruceGrubb ( talk) 02:19, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
Note on proper use of talk pages
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Another note on proper use of talk pages
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As administrator Will Beback pointed out back in Talk:Weston_Price/Archive_2#Modern_focal_infection_theory_passage " WP:MEDRS limits what we can say about medical topics, so that may be appropriate. But we shouldn't use this article as a backdoor to discuss medical claims that we wouldn't make elsewhere." You cannot ignore the many sources that show the Ingle's Endodontics statement is WRONG. While we are on it here are two more:
"Today the concept of focal infection has been integrated into the practice of medicine. One speaks no longer of the theory of focal infection; one recognizes focal infection as a definite pathologic condition requiring scientific diagnosis and treatment." (1947 Journal of the American Medical Association Volume 133:2 page 111). This statement was repeated word for word in Review of gastroenterology Volume 18 pg 71 of the National Gastroenterological Association in 1951.
You can't claim a theory "fell out of favor in the 1930s" when papers in 1947 and 1951 say it is "a definite pathologic condition requiring scientific diagnosis and treatment." On every point the Ingle's Endodontics is WRONG and no handwaving is going to change that.-- BruceGrubb ( talk) 07:50, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Comment My only concern here is that Price's application of focal infection theory (e.g. the one shared by the dental mainstream for a number of years leading to unnecessary extractions, etc.) is not confused with the focal infection theory, which is a much more general theory. I'm saying this because I agree mostly with Yobol at this point, but with a caveat that I think relates to Bruce's concerns. The sources that do in fact discuss Price and focal infection theory appear not to be doing a very good job differentiating between the two themselves. I think we do need to stick to these sources when discussing Price's connection to the theory, but we should also make sure our readers are not confused in the sense of thinking that the focal infection theory was completely rejected. As far as that is handled with the necessary subtlety I'm happy.
Griswaldo (
talk) 21:46, 19 January 2011 (UTC)'=
Additional note Yobol did this revert. Please explain how identifying the publisher falls under WP:PEACOCK especially given the just the fact example?!? Better yet explain to us how removing the very reference as where the statement was removed qualifies under WP:PEACOCK. Also explain to us why this nonsense is allowed to go on.-- BruceGrubb ( talk) 11:08, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Ingels vs Ingels The really sad thing about this is "PDQ Endodontics" by Ingels clearly states "And even today, cancer and neuroropsychiatric disorders are blamed on focal infection". (...) "In summary, nonsurgical endodontics may be the least likely of dental treatment procedure to produce significant bacteremias in either incidence or magnitude" so even Ingels (2009) says Ignels (2002/2007) is wrong.-- BruceGrubb ( talk) 06:27, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
To make matters worse, when on January 8, 1953, Renmin Ribao [People's Daily], the official propaganda organ for the Communist Party, criticized the occupation of Rukyu Islands(or Okinawa Prefecture) by the United States, it stated that "the Ryukyu Islands are located northeast of our Taiwan Islands...including Senkaku Shoto. According to this statement, the PRC recognized that the Diaoyu (J:Senkaku) Islands were a part of Liuqiu Islands (or Okinawa Prefecture). In other words, the Diaoyu Islands belonged neither to Taiwan nor to mainland China, but to Japan.
With respect to the PRC, a front page news report that appeared on the October 3, 1996 edition of the Sankei Shimbun, reported that the PRC government evidently recognized the disputed islands as Japanese territory as revealed in a government sponsored publication. This particular publication is identified as the January 8, 1953 edition of The Peoples' Daily, China's official party newspaper, in which an article entitled " The People of the Ryukyu Islands Struggle Against American occupation" noted the Senkaku Islands as one of the subgroups of islands that constituted the Ryukyu Islands.
「人民日報」が米軍軍政下の沖縄の尖閣諸島(当時の中国の呼び方のまま. 現在中国は「釣魚島」という)で日本人民の米軍の軍事演習に反対する闘争が行われていると報道. 「琉球諸島はわが国台湾の東北および日本九州島の西南の間の海上に散在し、尖閣諸島、先島諸島、大東諸島、沖縄諸島、大島諸島、吐噶喇諸島、大隅諸島など7つの島嶼からなっている」と紹介(新華月報:1953-7); read Google Chinese-English translation
The People's Daily described the Ryukyu Islands as "dispersed between the northeastern part of our country's Taiwan and the southwestern part of Japan's Kyushu Island" and as including the Senkaku Islands as well as the Sakishima Islands, Maehara said.
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