- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. ✗ plicit 14:08, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
Mordvins (term for Jews)
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- Mordvins (term for Jews) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The article does not seem to be based on WP:Reliable sources. I checked the English sources and one Russian source in this article, and none of them supports the claims that Mordvins or other ethnic groups mentioned here would have been Jewish (hence the many {{failed verification}} tags in the article). I did not check all the Russian sources, but I suspect the same is true for them. Jähmefyysikko ( talk) 13:30, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Ethnic groups, History, Judaism, and Russia. Jähmefyysikko ( talk) 13:30, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- "The majority of these, however, were indeed Jews, like Erzyas, likely Meshchers (Mazhars/Mishars), Mokshas, Muromians, Burtas, etc" I'm lost for words. Speedy Delete, and all edits made by the author of this article probably should be checked thoroughly.
Finstergeist (
talk) 15:28, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- The author of this article is apparently
an admin over at
Moksha Wikipedia 😐.
Brusquedandelion (
talk) 11:15, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- I noticed it too, and I can only wonder about the quality of articles on there. At least on Russian Wikipedia, their contributions look nowhere near as bad (probably because such extreme claims would be challenged very quickly on there). Finstergeist ( talk) 22:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- The author of this article is apparently
an admin over at
Moksha Wikipedia 😐.
Brusquedandelion (
talk) 11:15, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- Speedy Delete. As above, lost for words. Would it be wrong for me to tag this article for speedy deletion as a blatant hoax? Also I think someone needs to bring the account creator to administrator attention, since their entire edit history seems to consist of this kind of behavior. Brusquedandelion ( talk) 22:12, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- Comment.
Max Vasmer etymological dictionary has
a mention:
" Mordva" - a derogatory term towards Jews and children - is widespread up to Smolensk, where the word " mordvin" is also used to mean "troublemaker".
I'm hesitant to propose a merge due to the article's quality, but it doesn't seem to be a hoax in its entirety, and a one-sentence mention at Mordva (slur) or Mordvins is possibly warranted. PaulT2022 ( talk) 09:22, 24 March 2024 (UTC)- @
PaulT2022 thanks for noting this—important context for sure. At the
related AfD for
Mordva (slur), @
Finstergeist claims that the
pejorative term for Jews
is merelyhomophonic...but it's clearly unrelated to the main topic (Mordvins don't have anything to do with Jews)
. Thoughts on this? - Also worth noting, as pointed out
at the talk page for the article under discussion here, that the lead
seems to be copied from Turk (term for Muslims) with keywords swapped
:
Brusquedandelion ( talk) 11:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)The ethnonym Turks ( Greek: Τούρκοι/Tourkoi, Serbo-Croatian: Turci/Турци, Albanian: turk) has been commonly used by the non-Muslim Balkan peoples to denote all Muslim settlers in the region, regardless of their ethno-linguistic background. The majority of these, however, were indeed ethnic Turks.
- Vasmer doesn't seem to imply homophony, whereas Nosovich (the quote from the lead image in Mordva (slur)) does.
- I don't have an opinion whether either viewpoint is WP:FRINGE. PaulT2022 ( talk) 11:42, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- This dictionary entry is actually mentioned in the Russian Wikipedia article on Mordvins, but the chronological and geographical distance is still too big to support the extraordinary claim that this meaning has anything to do with medieval Mordvins (and to my knowledge, no reliable source makes such claims either). Finstergeist ( talk) 22:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- @
PaulT2022 thanks for noting this—important context for sure. At the
related AfD for
Mordva (slur), @
Finstergeist claims that the
- Speedy delete I think this article is of such poor quality that merging it would be more work than just starting with a clean slate FortunateSons ( talk) 12:24, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:V and WP:TNT. We need verification and a real article, not this huge mess. Everyone knows in 2024 that we are not a fee web host. Bearian ( talk) 20:11, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- Speedy Delete Agree with fortunate sons, we should just scrap this. Tennisist123 ( talk) 23:23, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. ✗ plicit 14:08, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
Mordvins (term for Jews)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Mordvins (term for Jews) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The article does not seem to be based on WP:Reliable sources. I checked the English sources and one Russian source in this article, and none of them supports the claims that Mordvins or other ethnic groups mentioned here would have been Jewish (hence the many {{failed verification}} tags in the article). I did not check all the Russian sources, but I suspect the same is true for them. Jähmefyysikko ( talk) 13:30, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Ethnic groups, History, Judaism, and Russia. Jähmefyysikko ( talk) 13:30, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- "The majority of these, however, were indeed Jews, like Erzyas, likely Meshchers (Mazhars/Mishars), Mokshas, Muromians, Burtas, etc" I'm lost for words. Speedy Delete, and all edits made by the author of this article probably should be checked thoroughly.
Finstergeist (
talk) 15:28, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- The author of this article is apparently
an admin over at
Moksha Wikipedia 😐.
Brusquedandelion (
talk) 11:15, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- I noticed it too, and I can only wonder about the quality of articles on there. At least on Russian Wikipedia, their contributions look nowhere near as bad (probably because such extreme claims would be challenged very quickly on there). Finstergeist ( talk) 22:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- The author of this article is apparently
an admin over at
Moksha Wikipedia 😐.
Brusquedandelion (
talk) 11:15, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- Speedy Delete. As above, lost for words. Would it be wrong for me to tag this article for speedy deletion as a blatant hoax? Also I think someone needs to bring the account creator to administrator attention, since their entire edit history seems to consist of this kind of behavior. Brusquedandelion ( talk) 22:12, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
- Comment.
Max Vasmer etymological dictionary has
a mention:
" Mordva" - a derogatory term towards Jews and children - is widespread up to Smolensk, where the word " mordvin" is also used to mean "troublemaker".
I'm hesitant to propose a merge due to the article's quality, but it doesn't seem to be a hoax in its entirety, and a one-sentence mention at Mordva (slur) or Mordvins is possibly warranted. PaulT2022 ( talk) 09:22, 24 March 2024 (UTC)- @
PaulT2022 thanks for noting this—important context for sure. At the
related AfD for
Mordva (slur), @
Finstergeist claims that the
pejorative term for Jews
is merelyhomophonic...but it's clearly unrelated to the main topic (Mordvins don't have anything to do with Jews)
. Thoughts on this? - Also worth noting, as pointed out
at the talk page for the article under discussion here, that the lead
seems to be copied from Turk (term for Muslims) with keywords swapped
:
Brusquedandelion ( talk) 11:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)The ethnonym Turks ( Greek: Τούρκοι/Tourkoi, Serbo-Croatian: Turci/Турци, Albanian: turk) has been commonly used by the non-Muslim Balkan peoples to denote all Muslim settlers in the region, regardless of their ethno-linguistic background. The majority of these, however, were indeed ethnic Turks.
- Vasmer doesn't seem to imply homophony, whereas Nosovich (the quote from the lead image in Mordva (slur)) does.
- I don't have an opinion whether either viewpoint is WP:FRINGE. PaulT2022 ( talk) 11:42, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- This dictionary entry is actually mentioned in the Russian Wikipedia article on Mordvins, but the chronological and geographical distance is still too big to support the extraordinary claim that this meaning has anything to do with medieval Mordvins (and to my knowledge, no reliable source makes such claims either). Finstergeist ( talk) 22:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- @
PaulT2022 thanks for noting this—important context for sure. At the
related AfD for
Mordva (slur), @
Finstergeist claims that the
- Speedy delete I think this article is of such poor quality that merging it would be more work than just starting with a clean slate FortunateSons ( talk) 12:24, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:V and WP:TNT. We need verification and a real article, not this huge mess. Everyone knows in 2024 that we are not a fee web host. Bearian ( talk) 20:11, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- Speedy Delete Agree with fortunate sons, we should just scrap this. Tennisist123 ( talk) 23:23, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.