In order to remain listed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this user and have failed. This must involve the same dispute with a single user, not different disputes or multiple users. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts, and each of them must certify it by signing this page with ~~~~. If this does not happen within 48 hours of the creation of this dispute page (which was: 00:00, 6 December 2005 (UTC)), the page will be deleted. The current date and time is: 08:44, 2 August 2024 (UTC).
Users should only edit one summary or view, other than to endorse.
This is a summary written by users who dispute this user's conduct. Users signing other sections ("Response" or "Outside views") should not edit the "Statement of the dispute" section.
User:Ghirlandajo is a great guy. Many of his articles make me think that he is a valuable and needed contributor. He contributed to plethora of articles, starting dozens of them and fixing dozens of others. However, at the same time he is not a good wikipedian in that he does not feel any sense of community. Rudeness, offensive language, judgmental tone or calling names are his daily modus operandi and such behaviour seriously disrupts Wikipedia.
After Ghirlandajo's recent comments at the article talk pages and my own talk, I lost all hope and decided to start this RfC. I know no way to make him start respect other contributors and work constructively without making all sorts of offensive remarks. Perhaps some other member of the community might help here.
Note that I'm not mentioning the violations of Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, Wikipedia:Verifiability or WP:CITE as I'm personally engaged in conflicts over merithorical content of several articles with him and I'm definitely not the person to throw the first stone here. Also note that I don't think blocking Ghirlandajo would be a good option. After all he is a valuable wikipedian (at times at least) and such a blocking would, IMHO, not make him change his ways.
{list the policies that apply to the disputed conduct}
{Users who tried and failed to resolve the dispute}
(sign with ~~~~)
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As was previously remarked by an uninvolved editor, against the background of Halibutt's recently failed RfA, in which he holds me responsible, user:Halibutt and his habitual supporters - User:Piotrus, User:Lysy, User:Molobo, User:Space Cadet, and User:Aegis Maelstrom (who all coincidentally happen to be Polish :) - initiated a revanchistic campaign to persecute, bully, slander, and (if possible) to oust me from editing Wikipedia. They know me for the only Russian editor who contributes regularly on Poland-related topics nowadays, therefore, considering a Russophobic penchant in many of their articles, their ambition is easy to understand.
Mr Halibutt's anti-Ghirlandajo campaign started with his controversial comments on Russophobia, in which he declared that everyone who speaks Russian, drinks vodka and sings Katyusha should be considered Russian. I found this abuse of ethnic stereotype alarming and voiced my opinion during Halubutt's recently failed RfA, which I opposed. Mr Halibutt explained his position to the effect that he didn't mean any harm, and his explanations were accepted by me as genuine. On this event, Halibutt openly assumed my bad faith and during my edits of History of Belarus about a week ago labelled the Russians as "vodka pissers" in an oblique comment similar to the one he had been constrained to explain before. As I was the only Russian anywhere around and the comment was evidently addressed to me, I asked for an apology but was flatly refused.
Unlike half a dozen Polish editors who went through my 17,000+ edits to pick up a dozen summaries quoted above, I have neither time nor energy to go through Mr Halibutt's 16,000+ edits in order to prove my point. But even his comments in discussions where I took part form a pattern of ethnic slurs and quite nasty behaviour:
As for another plaintiff, User:Piotrus, I didn't know him that well before his frantic spamming campaign to promote Halibutt's RfA. It was at that time that I was scandalized to learn ( from other user's comments) that Piotrus unblocks trolls pushing extreme pro-Polish POV on regular basis. It was him who repeatedly unblocked Halibutt after his 3RR violations, thus spawning admin wars. His abuse of admin powers is accompanied by threats to block myself for editing the page in a style not to his liking, gratuitous name-calling of his opponents, arbitrary deletion of redirects, copyright issues, and other actions that warrant defrocking. Particularly pathetic are his yesterday's uneffectual attempts to slander me in a 3RR violation. It's enough to compare my block log with Mr Halibutt's (and I never was blocked for a 3RR violation) to see who is a real revert warrior here.
In other words, the Polish editors have the full right to call the Russians whatever names they like and behave themselves as they please, while the Russian editors should not only be silent about that but apologize incessantly - that's the position of my Polish opponents in a nutshell. The case is old enough: Physician, heal yourself, as our ancestors used to say. Although I appreciate opinions of other reputable editors as regards my edits, I consider Halibutt-Piotr's anti-Ghirlandajo crusade ill-conceived and ultimately pointless. And I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
Other accusations are based on my harsh treatment of User:AndriyK, User:Andrew Alexander, and their trollish company who had started unprecedented revert wars, involving renaming and moving about dozens of articles, copyvios, and rigged move votes. They were the first to declare me, Mikkalai, Ezhiki and other prolific editors opposing their destructive policies "adolescent gang", "Russian mafia", "revert maniacs", etc., so my response was, in a sense, strictly symmetrical. If there's someone sympathizing with their cause, he is welcome to comment on Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/AndriyK, where the dispute is being resolved at the moment. -- Ghirlandajo 18:04, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
The truth speaks for itself. I'd just like to ask the readers of the above to follow the links and see the real edits in their entire context.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:24, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
I see that one of the certifiers of this RfC has posted a Request for Mediation. Has Ghirlandajo responded to the Request for Mediation? I think that mediation would be a good idea.-- Robert McClenon 01:30, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
I am now involved in the mediation process to the page of History of Belarus for solving some punctual issues. It is related to some of the reverts made by User:Ghirlandajo. I will add my opinion soon. Bonaparte talk 19:10, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
In my first encounter with Ghirlandajo about 1-1/2 years ago, he struck me as very rude and opinionated, although knowledgeable. It took me many months to realize that he is often an excellent contributor, and is actually able to collaborate pleasantly with other editors when he doesn't disagree with them, or when he chooses to stay out of a dispute. He has a strong point of view which can precipitate disputes, but I don't think POV is a problem (we all have them). He and I have disagreed, but we have also been able to get past that in other situations. But typically, his reaction to anything he disagrees with is somewhere between mildly unpleasant and downright offensive, even to new Wikipedia editors. I can see where this dispute is coming from, and it's unfortunate that Ghirlandajo won't simply be more considerate in his mode of discourse. — Michael Z. 2005-12-7 01:04 Z
Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):
A few points of reference for any editors not familiar with the background of this RfC:
Ahasuerus 16:16, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~)
Added by Irpen 22:03, 8 December 2005 (UTC): Please note that this space is for co-signers of the Ahasuerus' statement. Counterstatements belong to different sections. Please move it there. -- Irpen 22:03, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
All signed comments and talk not related to an endorsement should be directed to this page's discussion page. Discussion should not be added below. Discussion should be posted on the talk page. Threaded replies to another user's vote, endorsement, evidence, response, or comment should be posted to the talk page.
Let me politely disagree here. I brought my good-willed apologies to Mr Halibutt on *three* occasions, the last time just five days ago (see his talk page), and every time he bit the hand that I extended towards him, openly presuming my bad faith and preaching me in a judgmental tone: "You can call it some sort of personal probation if you please". After that, not only did he maintain a confrontational tone, but advised me to reconsider my membership in this wikipedia. What is particularly sad, he refuses not only to apologize but even to acknowledge numerous insults and personal attacks directed to me: "No, Ghirlandajo, we were not both bad tempered. You were. Accusing me of insults when there were none will not change that". Having said that, the only person who refuses to co-operate there is Mr Halibutt. -- Ghirlandajo 08:07, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
In order to remain listed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this user and have failed. This must involve the same dispute with a single user, not different disputes or multiple users. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts, and each of them must certify it by signing this page with ~~~~. If this does not happen within 48 hours of the creation of this dispute page (which was: 00:00, 6 December 2005 (UTC)), the page will be deleted. The current date and time is: 08:44, 2 August 2024 (UTC).
Users should only edit one summary or view, other than to endorse.
This is a summary written by users who dispute this user's conduct. Users signing other sections ("Response" or "Outside views") should not edit the "Statement of the dispute" section.
User:Ghirlandajo is a great guy. Many of his articles make me think that he is a valuable and needed contributor. He contributed to plethora of articles, starting dozens of them and fixing dozens of others. However, at the same time he is not a good wikipedian in that he does not feel any sense of community. Rudeness, offensive language, judgmental tone or calling names are his daily modus operandi and such behaviour seriously disrupts Wikipedia.
After Ghirlandajo's recent comments at the article talk pages and my own talk, I lost all hope and decided to start this RfC. I know no way to make him start respect other contributors and work constructively without making all sorts of offensive remarks. Perhaps some other member of the community might help here.
Note that I'm not mentioning the violations of Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, Wikipedia:Verifiability or WP:CITE as I'm personally engaged in conflicts over merithorical content of several articles with him and I'm definitely not the person to throw the first stone here. Also note that I don't think blocking Ghirlandajo would be a good option. After all he is a valuable wikipedian (at times at least) and such a blocking would, IMHO, not make him change his ways.
{list the policies that apply to the disputed conduct}
{Users who tried and failed to resolve the dispute}
(sign with ~~~~)
(sign with ~~~~)
As was previously remarked by an uninvolved editor, against the background of Halibutt's recently failed RfA, in which he holds me responsible, user:Halibutt and his habitual supporters - User:Piotrus, User:Lysy, User:Molobo, User:Space Cadet, and User:Aegis Maelstrom (who all coincidentally happen to be Polish :) - initiated a revanchistic campaign to persecute, bully, slander, and (if possible) to oust me from editing Wikipedia. They know me for the only Russian editor who contributes regularly on Poland-related topics nowadays, therefore, considering a Russophobic penchant in many of their articles, their ambition is easy to understand.
Mr Halibutt's anti-Ghirlandajo campaign started with his controversial comments on Russophobia, in which he declared that everyone who speaks Russian, drinks vodka and sings Katyusha should be considered Russian. I found this abuse of ethnic stereotype alarming and voiced my opinion during Halubutt's recently failed RfA, which I opposed. Mr Halibutt explained his position to the effect that he didn't mean any harm, and his explanations were accepted by me as genuine. On this event, Halibutt openly assumed my bad faith and during my edits of History of Belarus about a week ago labelled the Russians as "vodka pissers" in an oblique comment similar to the one he had been constrained to explain before. As I was the only Russian anywhere around and the comment was evidently addressed to me, I asked for an apology but was flatly refused.
Unlike half a dozen Polish editors who went through my 17,000+ edits to pick up a dozen summaries quoted above, I have neither time nor energy to go through Mr Halibutt's 16,000+ edits in order to prove my point. But even his comments in discussions where I took part form a pattern of ethnic slurs and quite nasty behaviour:
As for another plaintiff, User:Piotrus, I didn't know him that well before his frantic spamming campaign to promote Halibutt's RfA. It was at that time that I was scandalized to learn ( from other user's comments) that Piotrus unblocks trolls pushing extreme pro-Polish POV on regular basis. It was him who repeatedly unblocked Halibutt after his 3RR violations, thus spawning admin wars. His abuse of admin powers is accompanied by threats to block myself for editing the page in a style not to his liking, gratuitous name-calling of his opponents, arbitrary deletion of redirects, copyright issues, and other actions that warrant defrocking. Particularly pathetic are his yesterday's uneffectual attempts to slander me in a 3RR violation. It's enough to compare my block log with Mr Halibutt's (and I never was blocked for a 3RR violation) to see who is a real revert warrior here.
In other words, the Polish editors have the full right to call the Russians whatever names they like and behave themselves as they please, while the Russian editors should not only be silent about that but apologize incessantly - that's the position of my Polish opponents in a nutshell. The case is old enough: Physician, heal yourself, as our ancestors used to say. Although I appreciate opinions of other reputable editors as regards my edits, I consider Halibutt-Piotr's anti-Ghirlandajo crusade ill-conceived and ultimately pointless. And I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
Other accusations are based on my harsh treatment of User:AndriyK, User:Andrew Alexander, and their trollish company who had started unprecedented revert wars, involving renaming and moving about dozens of articles, copyvios, and rigged move votes. They were the first to declare me, Mikkalai, Ezhiki and other prolific editors opposing their destructive policies "adolescent gang", "Russian mafia", "revert maniacs", etc., so my response was, in a sense, strictly symmetrical. If there's someone sympathizing with their cause, he is welcome to comment on Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/AndriyK, where the dispute is being resolved at the moment. -- Ghirlandajo 18:04, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
The truth speaks for itself. I'd just like to ask the readers of the above to follow the links and see the real edits in their entire context.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:24, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
I see that one of the certifiers of this RfC has posted a Request for Mediation. Has Ghirlandajo responded to the Request for Mediation? I think that mediation would be a good idea.-- Robert McClenon 01:30, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
I am now involved in the mediation process to the page of History of Belarus for solving some punctual issues. It is related to some of the reverts made by User:Ghirlandajo. I will add my opinion soon. Bonaparte talk 19:10, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
In my first encounter with Ghirlandajo about 1-1/2 years ago, he struck me as very rude and opinionated, although knowledgeable. It took me many months to realize that he is often an excellent contributor, and is actually able to collaborate pleasantly with other editors when he doesn't disagree with them, or when he chooses to stay out of a dispute. He has a strong point of view which can precipitate disputes, but I don't think POV is a problem (we all have them). He and I have disagreed, but we have also been able to get past that in other situations. But typically, his reaction to anything he disagrees with is somewhere between mildly unpleasant and downright offensive, even to new Wikipedia editors. I can see where this dispute is coming from, and it's unfortunate that Ghirlandajo won't simply be more considerate in his mode of discourse. — Michael Z. 2005-12-7 01:04 Z
Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):
A few points of reference for any editors not familiar with the background of this RfC:
Ahasuerus 16:16, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~)
Added by Irpen 22:03, 8 December 2005 (UTC): Please note that this space is for co-signers of the Ahasuerus' statement. Counterstatements belong to different sections. Please move it there. -- Irpen 22:03, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
All signed comments and talk not related to an endorsement should be directed to this page's discussion page. Discussion should not be added below. Discussion should be posted on the talk page. Threaded replies to another user's vote, endorsement, evidence, response, or comment should be posted to the talk page.
Let me politely disagree here. I brought my good-willed apologies to Mr Halibutt on *three* occasions, the last time just five days ago (see his talk page), and every time he bit the hand that I extended towards him, openly presuming my bad faith and preaching me in a judgmental tone: "You can call it some sort of personal probation if you please". After that, not only did he maintain a confrontational tone, but advised me to reconsider my membership in this wikipedia. What is particularly sad, he refuses not only to apologize but even to acknowledge numerous insults and personal attacks directed to me: "No, Ghirlandajo, we were not both bad tempered. You were. Accusing me of insults when there were none will not change that". Having said that, the only person who refuses to co-operate there is Mr Halibutt. -- Ghirlandajo 08:07, 9 December 2005 (UTC)