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October 5 Information
We often say that something is "the case", meaning it is true; or that it is "not the case", meaning the opposite.
Just what is this "case" we so commonly invoke? -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 00:06, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
- EO's discussion of this term may help.
[1] ←
Baseball Bugs
What's up, Doc?
carrots→
00:14, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, thank you. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 18:16, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
Juǀʼhoan Article
So the epiglottalized clicks are really just click + kxʼ? Does that mean /tʜ/ is really [tkxʼ]? déhanchements ( talk) 23:11, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
- No, /tʜ/ is not a click at all. /tʜ/ is similar to an aspirated /t/, as in English "tea", but instead of the /t/ being followed by a breathy /h/, this one is followed by a voiceless epiglottal trill (the sound of Arabic ح). There is an audio file of this "ʜ" at voiceless epiglottal trill.
- However, Juǀ'hoan also has a click consonant that is followed by "ʜ", written phonetically as /ǃʜ/. You can hear this ǃ click at retroflex click. So, /ǃʜ/ is the retroflex click followed by a voiceless epiglottal trill (Arabic ح).
- Also, /kxʼ/ is not a click, it is a velar ejective (k followed by x followed by a glottal stop). Jul'hoan does have a click ejective, written as /ǃˀ/. It's the same retroflex click as I described above, followed by a glottal stop.
—Stephen (
talk)
14:01, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
- I know this, I wasn't saying that /kxʼ/ or /tʜ/ are clicks. I read on the article the following, The 'epiglottalized' clicks are heterorganic affricates, and equivalent to linguo-glottalic consonants transcribed [ǃ͡kxʼ] and [ᶢǃ͡kxʼ], etc., in other languages (Miller 2011). So I thought, that must mean /ǂʜ/ is really /ǂkxʼ/, and the 'epiglottalized' stop /tʜ/ is really /tkxʼ/. I hadn't read The consonants listed as epiglottalized, following Miller-Ockhuizen (2003), have uvular frication and glottalization; they are similar to consonants in Nǀu described as uvular ejective by Miller et al. (2009).. Apparently /ǂʜ/ really is epiglottalized jus like you say, but Wikipedia be trippin balls and can't decide which is right. déhanchements ( talk) 02:56, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
| Language desk | ||
|---|---|---|
| < October 4 | << Sep | October | Nov >> | October 6 > |
| Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives |
|---|
| The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
October 5 Information
We often say that something is "the case", meaning it is true; or that it is "not the case", meaning the opposite.
Just what is this "case" we so commonly invoke? -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 00:06, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
- EO's discussion of this term may help.
[1] ←
Baseball Bugs
What's up, Doc?
carrots→
00:14, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, thank you. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 18:16, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
Juǀʼhoan Article
So the epiglottalized clicks are really just click + kxʼ? Does that mean /tʜ/ is really [tkxʼ]? déhanchements ( talk) 23:11, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
- No, /tʜ/ is not a click at all. /tʜ/ is similar to an aspirated /t/, as in English "tea", but instead of the /t/ being followed by a breathy /h/, this one is followed by a voiceless epiglottal trill (the sound of Arabic ح). There is an audio file of this "ʜ" at voiceless epiglottal trill.
- However, Juǀ'hoan also has a click consonant that is followed by "ʜ", written phonetically as /ǃʜ/. You can hear this ǃ click at retroflex click. So, /ǃʜ/ is the retroflex click followed by a voiceless epiglottal trill (Arabic ح).
- Also, /kxʼ/ is not a click, it is a velar ejective (k followed by x followed by a glottal stop). Jul'hoan does have a click ejective, written as /ǃˀ/. It's the same retroflex click as I described above, followed by a glottal stop.
—Stephen (
talk)
14:01, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
- I know this, I wasn't saying that /kxʼ/ or /tʜ/ are clicks. I read on the article the following, The 'epiglottalized' clicks are heterorganic affricates, and equivalent to linguo-glottalic consonants transcribed [ǃ͡kxʼ] and [ᶢǃ͡kxʼ], etc., in other languages (Miller 2011). So I thought, that must mean /ǂʜ/ is really /ǂkxʼ/, and the 'epiglottalized' stop /tʜ/ is really /tkxʼ/. I hadn't read The consonants listed as epiglottalized, following Miller-Ockhuizen (2003), have uvular frication and glottalization; they are similar to consonants in Nǀu described as uvular ejective by Miller et al. (2009).. Apparently /ǂʜ/ really is epiglottalized jus like you say, but Wikipedia be trippin balls and can't decide which is right. déhanchements ( talk) 02:56, 9 October 2018 (UTC)