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Who are they, i.e. what does it mean, in the following sentence: 'to the theatre then they came, an invading army of factory slaves, navvies, guttersnipes, emacited counter-clerks and care-worn women suckling babes in arms'? Thanks. -- Omidinist ( talk) 06:18, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
In Latin, as we all know, word order is very free, but not absolutely so. In the perfect passive, the auxiliary is almost always written last, as in amatus sum, "I have been loved". Can you go sum amatus, or does that come out as a verb (the copula) followed by an adjective, that is, "I am loved" as opposed to "I have been loved" ? Is there a difference between poetry and prose, since word order in poetry is even freer than prose? Thanks, It's been emotional ( talk) 20:59, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, I see what you are saying. Does that mean sum amatus, and all of its equivalents of the form sum (passive participle), must only be translated, if the translation be literal, as perfect passives, not as adjectives? Your example shows quite sensibly that sum amatus cannot be "I am loved," because that has a different form, amor, but is this a general rule? I always thought the passive participle (ie. past participle passive) had adjectival force in many circumstances, and could be used attributively and predicatively. I'm fairly sure the following is attributive, from the Vulgate: Omne regnum divisum contra se desolabitur. On the other hand, I don't know if I've seen the predicative use, perhaps because I have been invariably confused about whether to read it as a passive perfect or as an adjective, as demonstrated by the original question. It's been emotional ( talk) 21:33, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Thanks again, great answer, It's been emotional ( talk) 23:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc498/FFNight/wth1.jpg http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc498/FFNight/wth2.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.96.113.87 ( talk) 21:59, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Language desk | ||
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< December 2 | << Nov | December | Jan >> | December 4 > |
Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives |
---|
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
Who are they, i.e. what does it mean, in the following sentence: 'to the theatre then they came, an invading army of factory slaves, navvies, guttersnipes, emacited counter-clerks and care-worn women suckling babes in arms'? Thanks. -- Omidinist ( talk) 06:18, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
In Latin, as we all know, word order is very free, but not absolutely so. In the perfect passive, the auxiliary is almost always written last, as in amatus sum, "I have been loved". Can you go sum amatus, or does that come out as a verb (the copula) followed by an adjective, that is, "I am loved" as opposed to "I have been loved" ? Is there a difference between poetry and prose, since word order in poetry is even freer than prose? Thanks, It's been emotional ( talk) 20:59, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, I see what you are saying. Does that mean sum amatus, and all of its equivalents of the form sum (passive participle), must only be translated, if the translation be literal, as perfect passives, not as adjectives? Your example shows quite sensibly that sum amatus cannot be "I am loved," because that has a different form, amor, but is this a general rule? I always thought the passive participle (ie. past participle passive) had adjectival force in many circumstances, and could be used attributively and predicatively. I'm fairly sure the following is attributive, from the Vulgate: Omne regnum divisum contra se desolabitur. On the other hand, I don't know if I've seen the predicative use, perhaps because I have been invariably confused about whether to read it as a passive perfect or as an adjective, as demonstrated by the original question. It's been emotional ( talk) 21:33, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Thanks again, great answer, It's been emotional ( talk) 23:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc498/FFNight/wth1.jpg http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc498/FFNight/wth2.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.96.113.87 ( talk) 21:59, 3 December 2010 (UTC)