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I learned today that the term "Arlésienne" is used in French to refer to a person who is expected to be in a certain place at a certain time, but fails to show up. Is it only ever used in the feminine form, whether the person is female or male? Is the A always capitalised, or does it appear as arlésienne/arlésien? Do other languages have such a lovely and useful term for such a person? Would it be reasonable to use this French word in English with this meaning, and expect people generally to know what it means? I mean, I'd love to use it somewhere, but definitely not if I have to immediately explain what I'm talking about. -- JackofOz ( talk) 08:26, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
¶ The dictionary part of my 2004 Petit Larousse Illustré gives this figurative or secondary meaning of L' Arlésienne, feminine noun (after the straight use of arlésien, -ienne to describe things or people from Arles)
personne dont on parle tout le temps et qu'on ne voit jamais (par allusion à l'opéra de Bizet où ce personnage ne paraît pas sur la scène.)
roughly, "someone about whom one talks all the time yet never sees (by allusion to the Bizet's opera where this [title] character does not appear on stage.)" So the parallel to Godot (or to George Spelvin) seems pretty close, and the derivative sense of a perpetual latecomer or absentee tertiary. ¶ And to answer Jack's other questions, L'Arlésienne is capitalized and treated grammatically as a feminine proper noun by Larousse, because L'Arlésienne is both the title and the title character. But I wouldn't use this in English conversation, since this is the first time most of us (including me) have ever encountered it in this sense, although I did dimly recall L'Arlésienne as a painting from around the Impressionist era (it was by Van Gogh). Cf. L'Arlésienne (Bizet) and L'Arlésienne (novel and play)#Trivia, from which I arrogantly and hastily conclude that Larousse might have better cited Daudet's novel and play than Bizet's opera. —— Shakescene ( talk) 07:35, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Well, thank you all for your most enlightening posts. As for using it myself, I'll reserve it for a special occasion. But I did find it in the article I linked in my question, and I assume that if something's mentioned in Wikipedia, it's *obviously* going to be well known before long (perhaps not part of the lingua franca (pun) in the sense of an expression one hears every day, but still ...). :) -- JackofOz ( talk) 20:19, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm trying to remember a slang word meaning "grasp, understand, comprehend" whose origin was in a science fiction story. I think in the original story it meant something like "completely absorb and assimilate". I think the slang word was popular on college campuses in the U.S. in the '60s and '70s, but that was before my time. My first thought was grep, but that means something else. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Pais ( talk) 11:45, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
The term is still used at Curtin University in Perth, Australia. Mitch Ames ( talk) 11:25, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Essentially just for fun, I'm interested in learning an African language. I've found decent-looking resources for Zulu, Xhosa and Swahili... what do people recommend? Either on the basis of most fun, easiest, most elegant: whatever, any views or thoughts at all? ╟─ Treasury Tag► co-prince─╢ 18:55, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
How are foghorn and ghost said in Spanish? 69.203.157.50 ( talk) 21:47, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Language desk | ||
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< October 6 | << Sep | October | Nov >> | October 8 > |
Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives |
---|
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
I learned today that the term "Arlésienne" is used in French to refer to a person who is expected to be in a certain place at a certain time, but fails to show up. Is it only ever used in the feminine form, whether the person is female or male? Is the A always capitalised, or does it appear as arlésienne/arlésien? Do other languages have such a lovely and useful term for such a person? Would it be reasonable to use this French word in English with this meaning, and expect people generally to know what it means? I mean, I'd love to use it somewhere, but definitely not if I have to immediately explain what I'm talking about. -- JackofOz ( talk) 08:26, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
¶ The dictionary part of my 2004 Petit Larousse Illustré gives this figurative or secondary meaning of L' Arlésienne, feminine noun (after the straight use of arlésien, -ienne to describe things or people from Arles)
personne dont on parle tout le temps et qu'on ne voit jamais (par allusion à l'opéra de Bizet où ce personnage ne paraît pas sur la scène.)
roughly, "someone about whom one talks all the time yet never sees (by allusion to the Bizet's opera where this [title] character does not appear on stage.)" So the parallel to Godot (or to George Spelvin) seems pretty close, and the derivative sense of a perpetual latecomer or absentee tertiary. ¶ And to answer Jack's other questions, L'Arlésienne is capitalized and treated grammatically as a feminine proper noun by Larousse, because L'Arlésienne is both the title and the title character. But I wouldn't use this in English conversation, since this is the first time most of us (including me) have ever encountered it in this sense, although I did dimly recall L'Arlésienne as a painting from around the Impressionist era (it was by Van Gogh). Cf. L'Arlésienne (Bizet) and L'Arlésienne (novel and play)#Trivia, from which I arrogantly and hastily conclude that Larousse might have better cited Daudet's novel and play than Bizet's opera. —— Shakescene ( talk) 07:35, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Well, thank you all for your most enlightening posts. As for using it myself, I'll reserve it for a special occasion. But I did find it in the article I linked in my question, and I assume that if something's mentioned in Wikipedia, it's *obviously* going to be well known before long (perhaps not part of the lingua franca (pun) in the sense of an expression one hears every day, but still ...). :) -- JackofOz ( talk) 20:19, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm trying to remember a slang word meaning "grasp, understand, comprehend" whose origin was in a science fiction story. I think in the original story it meant something like "completely absorb and assimilate". I think the slang word was popular on college campuses in the U.S. in the '60s and '70s, but that was before my time. My first thought was grep, but that means something else. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Pais ( talk) 11:45, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
The term is still used at Curtin University in Perth, Australia. Mitch Ames ( talk) 11:25, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Essentially just for fun, I'm interested in learning an African language. I've found decent-looking resources for Zulu, Xhosa and Swahili... what do people recommend? Either on the basis of most fun, easiest, most elegant: whatever, any views or thoughts at all? ╟─ Treasury Tag► co-prince─╢ 18:55, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
How are foghorn and ghost said in Spanish? 69.203.157.50 ( talk) 21:47, 7 October 2009 (UTC)