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This has been open about a month. There's a clear consensus that the status quo is unacceptable, but it's not clear what to do about it. I'm inclined to close as delete and suggest that the retarget or disambiguate options be worked out through normal editing, but more input is welcome. — Wug· a·po·des 18:35, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
The discovery of the Americas refers to the earliest instances in which humans from various origins first saw and set foot on North America and South America, and explored, recorded, or reported the geographic characteristics of these continents. The phrase is controversial because of longstanding disputes as to whether it is appropriate to describe an already-populated region as being "discovered" when it is first encountered by those foreign to that territory, and as to which explorers can be considered the "first" to have discovered the region, when evidence exists of multiple independent discoveries by different explorers. More broadly, the phrase can refer not just to the first instance of discovery, but to the process by which the Americas were explored by persons intentionally seeking to map and describe the continents.
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This discussion has been open for nine days, with tons and tons of editors weighing in, to the point where I'm not sure continuing to leave it open would do much other than use up editorial energy perpetuating the debate. Does anyone want to take a read through it and consider a close? {{u| Sdkb}} talk 06:24, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
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This RfC was raised following this discussion to contest the inclusion of 112.ua on the spam blacklist. The discussion at the RfC itself is split, with a majority favoring keeping it blacklisted, but a minority making valid arguments for its delisting. Normally that would be no consensus and result in the source remaining on the blacklist, but editors also allege that the 112.ua was never properly discussed, having been blacklisted based on the precedent of this disinformation-related RfC and only explicitly mentioned in this other discussion that occurred at roughly the same time as the RfC.
My impression upon reading the relevant discussions is that there was insufficient consensus in prior discussions to justify the addition of 112.ua to the blacklist, and that thus the status quo ante is invalid. The most recent RfC itself does not have the level of consensus necessary to justify blacklisting, and thus I think that the overall result should be that 112.ua be removed from the blacklist, but I'd appreciate a second opinion in case I missed something across the various discussions. signed, Rosguill talk 21:42, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
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My reading of this discussion is that there is consensus for some kind of partial move, but it's not clear what that move is. BD2412 T 17:48, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
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This discussion has been a controversial one with a lot of participants. Numerically the opposers have a majority, but many of the oppose !votes either misunderstood the proposal, raised abstract concerns about implementation and did not respond to explanations or requests for specific issues with the testcases. These !votes were disregarded or given significantly less weight when determining the consensus. Most of the other opposers argued that the combined template would be harder to use or maintain, was a bad coding practice, or could lead to more confusion. These arguments and variations upon them were considered strong but were fewer in number than !votes supporting consolidation. As this is essentially a question of design philosophy both arguments were considered equally strong resulting in a rough consensus for the merger.
Does this close look fine? -- Trialpears ( talk) 20:23, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
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Controversial one, and I now realise this is related to the so-called infobox wars. It proposes the deletion of Template:Composer sidebar and all of its transclusions. 3 batches of transclusions previously deleted, two closed by me, but about half of them for the rationale of unused, so take with grain of salt. Also applicable is WP:NAVBOX, the CENT-advertised sidebars in lead discussion, and tangentially ArbCom on general IB discussions. Also relevant is general TfD precedent against psuedo-infoboxes, for reasons such as the fact that they don't display on mobiles, accessibility concerns, etc.
My current reading as follows: tally is 5 keep, 6 delete. Reading arguments, and noting precedent, my current reading is consensus to delete this template (which is a psuedo-infobox), but for its transclusions there is no consensus on whether there should be a sidebar remaining afterwards, noting that multiple delete arguments aren't against a sidebar but against a psuedo-infobox. Such a close would require transclusion templates to be converted to regular sidebar usages, so the end result would look like a normal infobox (with the image and other labels), and a sidebar for navigation below. The sidebars may be renominated individually to be discussed, and the weighting of such a discussion would be impacted by the CENT discussion linked above. However, I also see a no consensus close as feasible (albeit unhelpful), and we can also wait for the CENT discussion to close which will possibly result in discouragement of sidebars in leads, which would add weight to the delete votes and perhaps result in a delete all close.
Thoughts? ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 10:03, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
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There is a clear consensus to rename the articles, but a hangup over whether the new titles should reflect the dates of birth of the subjects, or their nationality. I am inclined to close it with a move to titles including nationality, but closing either way will disappoint half of the participants in the original discussion, so I would welcome other opinions. BD2412 T 19:42, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
If the footballers have different nationalities, use their nationality in the disambiguation. Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(people)#Disambiguating is also a guideline and similarly says
Years of birth and death are not normally used as disambiguators. Participants showed that the project-wide consensus is to prefer nationality over YOB when disambiguating, and while there may be an editing consensus at WP:FOOTBALL to prefer YOB, per WP:LOCALCON we need to weigh the project-wide guidance more heavily than WikiProject style guides. As you said, there's consensus to move, so you have some discretion, and given the P&Gs discussed, it seems community consensus is that you should prefer nationality over YOB when exercising that discretion. — Wug· a·po·des 03:26, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
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Okay, this is a funny one. This follows Talk:2020_Nagorno-Karabakh_war/Archive_14#Proposal:_Rename_to_"2020_Nagorno-Karabakh_War" closed by Wugapodes with what appears to be quite a weighted-by-arguments close.
By raw votes, support votes have an approximate 2/3 majority. To summarise arguments, by my initial reading:
Whilst supporters have the numerical majority, I find many of their arguments wholly unconvincing with no basis in policy, notable lack of links or references to reliable sources, and mostly lacking in any other evidence. Meanwhile, opposers seemed to have arguments with a sounder basis in PAGs. On the "per my reasoning in prev discussion" arguments, I haven't read the Wugapodes discussion aside from the close, but the close makes me think Wugapodes was not convinced those arguments had much of a basis in policy. For these reasons I'm leaning towards no consensus here, but I'd like to grab some thoughts as this close would go against the numerical vote quite a bit. Cheers, ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 16:56, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
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I am inclined to close this as consensus to move, and furthermore to change "center" to "centre" on the basis that sub-articles in two countries predominately using "centre" outweighs the U.S. use of "center". My feeling is that the longwinded argument demonstrates that either title is permissible, and the length of argument against the move does not override the numerical consensus favoring the move. BD2412 T 17:48, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
"Center" should not be switched to "centre" without a very good reason. Granted WP:CONSISTENT is a thing, and (as you mention) Self-managed social centres in the United Kingdom and Self-managed social centres in Italy use the "centre" format. Imo a close either way on that could be justified. ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 17:58, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
This was a cool idea. I will post stuff here, if there's anyone actually watching it. jp× g 22:47, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
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Pinging some recent posters and some people that have closed tough RSN discussions: @ BD2412, Trialpears, Rosguill, Primefac, Wugapodes, and Jo-Jo Eumerus.
Wondering if I can get some thoughts on this discussion? It's quite split between option 1/2 and 4, with likely a numerical majority for the former (I haven't counted the numbers exactly), however reading the arguments tells a more unified picture. I think the diversity in whether people chose 1/2 or 4 depended on which angle people approached the question.
My reading is that there seems to be agreement that Wikileaks is reliable in the sense that it doesn't make up documents and has a process to verify the authenticity of the documents. For example: if it publishes a stash of documents where the purported author is the Chinese government, those documents could be cited as if they were accessed from a Chinese government website. This, of course, makes them primary sources, which comes onto the concerns of option 4 voters; that these documents cannot be used as reliable sources.
Where it gets more weird is when you consider the nature of Wikileaks. Some participants noted that Wikileaks is more like Dropbox or Scribd than a 'news source'. Except it can't be compared by analogy to either of those since it isn't a hosting service for other peoples' uploads, it publishes a very specific scope of documents and it does vetting for the authenticity of the documents. Some users compared it to a self-published source such as YouTube (or Twitter), but it's not quite comparable to that either. Hence, even if the conclusion in my last paragraph is the consensus, I feel like it's largely unhelpful/useless to only say that, particularly without giving an example of when the source can be used. And on that note, I'm having a tough time thinking of when a classified leaked government document could actually be used as per WP:PRIMARY, which I think largely comes to the option 4 concerns.
Posting this here since a lot of different relevant policies were quoted by users, and I think the nature of Wikileaks is quite unique such that it doesn't fit into any box easily, which I think makes this a difficult close. ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 21:49, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
Assuming this board isn't dead and posting here...
I'm thinking about closing Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Discord logs. I'd like for a person (preferably one without a Discord account) to co-close it with me. – MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 00:48, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
Hey, let's see if anyone's still paying attention to this board.
So Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 January 5 § Getting wet is a bit of a mess. With 12 !voters, the most support any one position is able to command is 4 for "Get Wet", but there's two explicit oppose !votes against that, so that's 4 for, 2 explicitly against, 6 implicitly neutral/against, definitely not a consensus.
Sometimes these kinds of thing result in no consensus, default to delete. If that's the right call here, I'll just wait for an admin to come along and close. But having thought about this a bit, deletion would also go against the preference of 9 out of 12 !voters (there's 2 delete and 1 second-choice delete), and there's one thing that no one's explicitly opposed, and 1 editor has spoken generally in favor of without outright endorsing, which is redirecting to wikt:get wet. Thus, I think the fairest close would be no consensus, default Wiktionary redirect.
My reading of WP:NCRET is that this is within my discretion as closer, but I'm wary of this coming off as a supervote, so I'd appreciate feedback here. Courtesy pings @ MJL, BD2412, JPxG, Trialpears, Wugapodes, and ProcrastinatingReader as repeat past participants here. (Would ping Rosguill, the only past participant I can see with significant RfD experience, but this happens to be their nom.) -- Tamzin cetacean needed (she/they) 05:31, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
I am inclined to close this as delete, but the discussion is... strange. Most of the comments both for and against deletion are by the same two multi-voting brand new editors who have only ever worked on this article and its deletion discussion (one is the nominator). BD2412 T 03:01, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
I believe that this is a WP:SNOW keep at this point, with no reasonable possibility of a consensus to delete arising (with over a hundred editors weighing in, !votes are about three to one in favor of keeping), and with additional developments and sources continuing to arise, which make a reversal substantially unlikely. I realize that this could just be left to run for the duration of the AfD process, but that seems like a waste of time at this point. BD2412 T 03:20, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
I see no broad consensus in this discussion, and would close it as keeping the parent category Category:Songs about religion, while upmerging the rest into it. I am given pause by the fact that this discussion has remained open for so long, and want to be sure others are not seeing something that I am missing with respect to this assessment of consensus. BD2412 T 04:54, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
At Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Busy work (2nd nomination), I !voted "keep", as did the other two participants (that is to say, there was no comment advocating deletion aside from the nomination statement itself). Afterwards, the nominator struck through this statement and added "Nomination withdrawn" beneath it. To me, it seems completely unambiguous that their intention was to close the AfD as withdrawn, and that consensus to do so is unanimous. My question, then, is whether it is condign for me to close the discussion as "withdrawn". I suspect that the answer is "no", since I participated in it, but I am curious as to what the general opinion is on this. jp× g 21:05, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
I performed a NAC of this discussion, on the basis of unanimous consensus to delete, and tagged the article as {{ G6}} (with the intention of reverting my close if the G6 was declined). However, asking around, I get the impression that this may not have been compliant with process, so I would be interested in feedback (and if anything ought to be done about the situation). jp× g 02:42, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
Wow, a discussions for discussion forum, so meta! I hope I'm in the right place; editor JPxG directed me here.
This is about the ongoing and hotly contested AfD debate, in regards to the article about recent suspension of journalist Twitter accounts that happened under Musk's direction.
The current AfD discussion is far from over, and should be allowed to run its course, but in my opinion ( and at the request of several other editors), it might be nice for this to be eventually closed by a small panel of admins, if possible?
If I should post this plea for help elsewhere (such as at WP:Closure requests) then please let me know, thanks!!
Your assistance and consideration of this matter is very much appreciated!
Cheers!
98.155.8.5 (
talk) 06:02, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
This discussion pertains to some paragraphs that one editor removed and posted an explanation of their removal on the talk page of the article. One other (relatively new) editor wasn't happy with the removal, made some arguments against removing it, and has now requested the discussion be formally closed.
My view on this is that this discussion simply doesn't require a closure, it's a normal discussion about content in the article; only 3 people are involved in the discussion, clearly, they disagree, and that's fine. I think I should point the requestor to the RFC process, and maybe an essay or two on how to achieve consensus?
Would doing this be appropriate? If so, would removing the request for closure, with a {{Not-done}} also be appropriate? Or should I just direct them to RFC and leave it alone? JeffUK ( talk) 21:30, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
I intend to close this incongruous "Requested move not to move" that was started based on a premise that a 2019 move needs to be ceremonially ratified in a bureaucratic excercise of pure process-for-the-sake-of-process. It is also very evident that it contests a (hypothetical) move to "Non-fiction"; however, no one proposes a move to non-fiction so this is a non-issue. (The page was moved in 2019 from Non-fiction to Nonfiction which does not seem to have been contested.) There's no reason for a RM. I commented in the thread with a "procedural close" comment. Regardless, I consider myself to be uninvolved because I was addressing a procedural issue. Is it appropriate if I procedurally close it? — Alalch E. 12:40, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
Update: I NAC'd the discussion, after thinking more about it, based on my strongly held views around policy. Immediately afterwards it was revealed that the RM nominator was mistaken in their belief that the RM had been recommended (it wasn't; easy to find on the talk page). What was recommended was CfD. They started a CfD (Jan 16). — Alalch E. 18:51, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
Should this be closed? The talk page hasn't been active at all lately (seemingly, the only activity in the last couple months is people asking if it can be closed). The RfC was prompted by an ArbCom motion, though, so it seems like it would be difficult for a non-arbitrator to just close it sua sponte. jp× g 18:07, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
I am trying to close stale proposed mergers as part of my work on WikiProject Merge. Since it has been a while since I closed a non-unambiguous discussion, I am asking for input from the experienced closers here.
Although the number of editors for and against is balanced, it initially seemed to me that proposer is the only one who's arguments are based on relevant policy, namely on the fact that there is overlap and that they are better understood in context, as well as the combined article not being too long. Neither of the other arguments seem to go beyond saying that the two topics are not identical, and making an OTHERSTUFF argument. On the other hand, WP:Merge does say that discrete topics with enough sources is an argument against a merger, so perhaps this gives enough backing to opposers' !votes to close as no consensus? Felix QW ( talk) 14:02, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
This discussion has been open since April and really needs to be closed. I personally see no consensus here - the nomination has two users in support and three in opposition, and despite the large amount of back-and-forth arguing and bold actions (including a related move request also closed as "no consensus") neither side has gained any headway convincing the other one. The underlying dispute, as to whether dukes and lords of Milan are sufficiently related to be categorized together, is not something in which there are any clear overriding guidelines I can use to bring it to any other resolution. Thoughts? * Pppery * it has begun... 23:26, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
I have been wondering how to determine the consensus in overly long discussions that may have 40 print-pages worth of text. I am a very detailed-oriented person so I would try to build a spreadsheet, define standards and sets, compare and analyze each comment. Such endeavor could take me weeks. How do you do it? Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 22:02, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
A number of months ago, I created WP:LLM, which was initially a very small and concise summary of how existing policies applied to large language models. Pretty quickly, people started adding to it, and for a while we were going back and forth thinking of new things and tacking them on wherever there seemed to be lacunae. While this resulted in a great information page/essay, unfortunately, it also resulted in the page having some dozens and dozens of provisions -- something virtually impossible to hold an adoption RfC for.
At some point, a few of the major editors agreed that it might be worth trying to trim the page down, or make a separate (much smaller) page and then try to get that approved through an RfC. I was going to do this (and I swear, officer, I was right on my way to get it taken care of!) but in the meantime, I see that someone has started a giant WP:CENT-listed RfC at WT:LLM, which is not looking great (nine for promotion, thirteen against). Should I just go ahead and write the abridged version and CENT that, or what? jp× g 07:10, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
Another exceedingly-long discussion that has been open since June and listed at WP:CR since August 15. There's clearly not a consensus for the original proposal, and the participants seem to have acknowledged that fact. I don't think there's quite a consensus for the alt proposal either, with four people clearly in support, three people clearly opposed, and then a lot of participants who haven't explicitly commented on it despite being pinged. There's a second alt proposal of "People from country by county/province/state", which is much closer to a consensus with nobody (or maybe only one person) explicitly objecting to it, but given the complexity of the discussion, it's obscurity relative to the two main proposals, and the fact that it isn't fully-defined, it isn't really right to close it as a consensus that way either.
What all three sides come down to (except for a few participants who didn't explain their reasoning) is a question of what various words in the English language mean/how users will interpret them. And I don't feel as closer I have any overriding guidelines to rely on to draw a consensus out of this tangle. * Pppery * it has begun... 16:30, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
I recently closed the WP:RM at Talk:The Expendables 4#Requested move 25 September 2023. I don't think anyone disputes that the outcome was no consensus, but there is a post-discussion dispute as to what constitutes the status quo ante to which the title should default absence such a consensus. The move history of the article, in short, is:
Am I correct in finding that in the absence of consensus, the title defaults to The Expendables 4? I won't be bruised if I'm told I have gotten it wrong, I just want to be sure my reasoning is sound. Cheers! BD2412 T 20:42, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
A tricky CfD that has been open since October 5. The basic outlines of the discussion are clear - there's a consensus to rename somewhere, but no clear consensus on where and a lengthy back-and-forth has failed to clarify matters. This unfortunately leaves which name to give the category unclear. I'm personally inclined to close with the original rename as it received slightly more support (3 users vs. two), but I'm interested in hearing what others here think. * Pppery * it has begun... 01:18, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
The last unclosed CfD from October I'm not involved in. This is an example of a phenomenon I've seen in plenty of other occasions: a proposal gets lots of support, and then a late opposition argument comes in making a point nobody else considered, and then despite the discussion remaining open for weeks there are no further comments. Neither a "no consensus" closure (since in the abstract there is a consensus) nor a "merge" closure (which would amount to practically discrediting Andejons' input solely because they arrived a day late) really feels right, and we can't really relist either since that was tried two weeks ago without getting anywhere. Thoughts? * Pppery * it has begun... 20:56, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
Talk:Israel#Request for Comment on apartheid charges has come up on WP:CR. At the top of that discussion, there are warnings that editors may have been inappropriately canvassed to the discussion; one editor says that it is specifically those prone to opposing the proposition. How should a closer deal with such a situation? I tried looking at WP:CANVASS but it didn't have much advice. -- Maddy from Celeste ( WAVEDASH) 15:51, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
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This has been open about a month. There's a clear consensus that the status quo is unacceptable, but it's not clear what to do about it. I'm inclined to close as delete and suggest that the retarget or disambiguate options be worked out through normal editing, but more input is welcome. — Wug· a·po·des 18:35, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
The discovery of the Americas refers to the earliest instances in which humans from various origins first saw and set foot on North America and South America, and explored, recorded, or reported the geographic characteristics of these continents. The phrase is controversial because of longstanding disputes as to whether it is appropriate to describe an already-populated region as being "discovered" when it is first encountered by those foreign to that territory, and as to which explorers can be considered the "first" to have discovered the region, when evidence exists of multiple independent discoveries by different explorers. More broadly, the phrase can refer not just to the first instance of discovery, but to the process by which the Americas were explored by persons intentionally seeking to map and describe the continents.
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This discussion has been open for nine days, with tons and tons of editors weighing in, to the point where I'm not sure continuing to leave it open would do much other than use up editorial energy perpetuating the debate. Does anyone want to take a read through it and consider a close? {{u| Sdkb}} talk 06:24, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
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This RfC was raised following this discussion to contest the inclusion of 112.ua on the spam blacklist. The discussion at the RfC itself is split, with a majority favoring keeping it blacklisted, but a minority making valid arguments for its delisting. Normally that would be no consensus and result in the source remaining on the blacklist, but editors also allege that the 112.ua was never properly discussed, having been blacklisted based on the precedent of this disinformation-related RfC and only explicitly mentioned in this other discussion that occurred at roughly the same time as the RfC.
My impression upon reading the relevant discussions is that there was insufficient consensus in prior discussions to justify the addition of 112.ua to the blacklist, and that thus the status quo ante is invalid. The most recent RfC itself does not have the level of consensus necessary to justify blacklisting, and thus I think that the overall result should be that 112.ua be removed from the blacklist, but I'd appreciate a second opinion in case I missed something across the various discussions. signed, Rosguill talk 21:42, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
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My reading of this discussion is that there is consensus for some kind of partial move, but it's not clear what that move is. BD2412 T 17:48, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
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This discussion has been a controversial one with a lot of participants. Numerically the opposers have a majority, but many of the oppose !votes either misunderstood the proposal, raised abstract concerns about implementation and did not respond to explanations or requests for specific issues with the testcases. These !votes were disregarded or given significantly less weight when determining the consensus. Most of the other opposers argued that the combined template would be harder to use or maintain, was a bad coding practice, or could lead to more confusion. These arguments and variations upon them were considered strong but were fewer in number than !votes supporting consolidation. As this is essentially a question of design philosophy both arguments were considered equally strong resulting in a rough consensus for the merger.
Does this close look fine? -- Trialpears ( talk) 20:23, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
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Controversial one, and I now realise this is related to the so-called infobox wars. It proposes the deletion of Template:Composer sidebar and all of its transclusions. 3 batches of transclusions previously deleted, two closed by me, but about half of them for the rationale of unused, so take with grain of salt. Also applicable is WP:NAVBOX, the CENT-advertised sidebars in lead discussion, and tangentially ArbCom on general IB discussions. Also relevant is general TfD precedent against psuedo-infoboxes, for reasons such as the fact that they don't display on mobiles, accessibility concerns, etc.
My current reading as follows: tally is 5 keep, 6 delete. Reading arguments, and noting precedent, my current reading is consensus to delete this template (which is a psuedo-infobox), but for its transclusions there is no consensus on whether there should be a sidebar remaining afterwards, noting that multiple delete arguments aren't against a sidebar but against a psuedo-infobox. Such a close would require transclusion templates to be converted to regular sidebar usages, so the end result would look like a normal infobox (with the image and other labels), and a sidebar for navigation below. The sidebars may be renominated individually to be discussed, and the weighting of such a discussion would be impacted by the CENT discussion linked above. However, I also see a no consensus close as feasible (albeit unhelpful), and we can also wait for the CENT discussion to close which will possibly result in discouragement of sidebars in leads, which would add weight to the delete votes and perhaps result in a delete all close.
Thoughts? ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 10:03, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
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There is a clear consensus to rename the articles, but a hangup over whether the new titles should reflect the dates of birth of the subjects, or their nationality. I am inclined to close it with a move to titles including nationality, but closing either way will disappoint half of the participants in the original discussion, so I would welcome other opinions. BD2412 T 19:42, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
If the footballers have different nationalities, use their nationality in the disambiguation. Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(people)#Disambiguating is also a guideline and similarly says
Years of birth and death are not normally used as disambiguators. Participants showed that the project-wide consensus is to prefer nationality over YOB when disambiguating, and while there may be an editing consensus at WP:FOOTBALL to prefer YOB, per WP:LOCALCON we need to weigh the project-wide guidance more heavily than WikiProject style guides. As you said, there's consensus to move, so you have some discretion, and given the P&Gs discussed, it seems community consensus is that you should prefer nationality over YOB when exercising that discretion. — Wug· a·po·des 03:26, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
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Okay, this is a funny one. This follows Talk:2020_Nagorno-Karabakh_war/Archive_14#Proposal:_Rename_to_"2020_Nagorno-Karabakh_War" closed by Wugapodes with what appears to be quite a weighted-by-arguments close.
By raw votes, support votes have an approximate 2/3 majority. To summarise arguments, by my initial reading:
Whilst supporters have the numerical majority, I find many of their arguments wholly unconvincing with no basis in policy, notable lack of links or references to reliable sources, and mostly lacking in any other evidence. Meanwhile, opposers seemed to have arguments with a sounder basis in PAGs. On the "per my reasoning in prev discussion" arguments, I haven't read the Wugapodes discussion aside from the close, but the close makes me think Wugapodes was not convinced those arguments had much of a basis in policy. For these reasons I'm leaning towards no consensus here, but I'd like to grab some thoughts as this close would go against the numerical vote quite a bit. Cheers, ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 16:56, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I am inclined to close this as consensus to move, and furthermore to change "center" to "centre" on the basis that sub-articles in two countries predominately using "centre" outweighs the U.S. use of "center". My feeling is that the longwinded argument demonstrates that either title is permissible, and the length of argument against the move does not override the numerical consensus favoring the move. BD2412 T 17:48, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
"Center" should not be switched to "centre" without a very good reason. Granted WP:CONSISTENT is a thing, and (as you mention) Self-managed social centres in the United Kingdom and Self-managed social centres in Italy use the "centre" format. Imo a close either way on that could be justified. ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 17:58, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
This was a cool idea. I will post stuff here, if there's anyone actually watching it. jp× g 22:47, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Pinging some recent posters and some people that have closed tough RSN discussions: @ BD2412, Trialpears, Rosguill, Primefac, Wugapodes, and Jo-Jo Eumerus.
Wondering if I can get some thoughts on this discussion? It's quite split between option 1/2 and 4, with likely a numerical majority for the former (I haven't counted the numbers exactly), however reading the arguments tells a more unified picture. I think the diversity in whether people chose 1/2 or 4 depended on which angle people approached the question.
My reading is that there seems to be agreement that Wikileaks is reliable in the sense that it doesn't make up documents and has a process to verify the authenticity of the documents. For example: if it publishes a stash of documents where the purported author is the Chinese government, those documents could be cited as if they were accessed from a Chinese government website. This, of course, makes them primary sources, which comes onto the concerns of option 4 voters; that these documents cannot be used as reliable sources.
Where it gets more weird is when you consider the nature of Wikileaks. Some participants noted that Wikileaks is more like Dropbox or Scribd than a 'news source'. Except it can't be compared by analogy to either of those since it isn't a hosting service for other peoples' uploads, it publishes a very specific scope of documents and it does vetting for the authenticity of the documents. Some users compared it to a self-published source such as YouTube (or Twitter), but it's not quite comparable to that either. Hence, even if the conclusion in my last paragraph is the consensus, I feel like it's largely unhelpful/useless to only say that, particularly without giving an example of when the source can be used. And on that note, I'm having a tough time thinking of when a classified leaked government document could actually be used as per WP:PRIMARY, which I think largely comes to the option 4 concerns.
Posting this here since a lot of different relevant policies were quoted by users, and I think the nature of Wikileaks is quite unique such that it doesn't fit into any box easily, which I think makes this a difficult close. ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 21:49, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
Assuming this board isn't dead and posting here...
I'm thinking about closing Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Discord logs. I'd like for a person (preferably one without a Discord account) to co-close it with me. – MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 00:48, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
Hey, let's see if anyone's still paying attention to this board.
So Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 January 5 § Getting wet is a bit of a mess. With 12 !voters, the most support any one position is able to command is 4 for "Get Wet", but there's two explicit oppose !votes against that, so that's 4 for, 2 explicitly against, 6 implicitly neutral/against, definitely not a consensus.
Sometimes these kinds of thing result in no consensus, default to delete. If that's the right call here, I'll just wait for an admin to come along and close. But having thought about this a bit, deletion would also go against the preference of 9 out of 12 !voters (there's 2 delete and 1 second-choice delete), and there's one thing that no one's explicitly opposed, and 1 editor has spoken generally in favor of without outright endorsing, which is redirecting to wikt:get wet. Thus, I think the fairest close would be no consensus, default Wiktionary redirect.
My reading of WP:NCRET is that this is within my discretion as closer, but I'm wary of this coming off as a supervote, so I'd appreciate feedback here. Courtesy pings @ MJL, BD2412, JPxG, Trialpears, Wugapodes, and ProcrastinatingReader as repeat past participants here. (Would ping Rosguill, the only past participant I can see with significant RfD experience, but this happens to be their nom.) -- Tamzin cetacean needed (she/they) 05:31, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
I am inclined to close this as delete, but the discussion is... strange. Most of the comments both for and against deletion are by the same two multi-voting brand new editors who have only ever worked on this article and its deletion discussion (one is the nominator). BD2412 T 03:01, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
I believe that this is a WP:SNOW keep at this point, with no reasonable possibility of a consensus to delete arising (with over a hundred editors weighing in, !votes are about three to one in favor of keeping), and with additional developments and sources continuing to arise, which make a reversal substantially unlikely. I realize that this could just be left to run for the duration of the AfD process, but that seems like a waste of time at this point. BD2412 T 03:20, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
I see no broad consensus in this discussion, and would close it as keeping the parent category Category:Songs about religion, while upmerging the rest into it. I am given pause by the fact that this discussion has remained open for so long, and want to be sure others are not seeing something that I am missing with respect to this assessment of consensus. BD2412 T 04:54, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
At Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Busy work (2nd nomination), I !voted "keep", as did the other two participants (that is to say, there was no comment advocating deletion aside from the nomination statement itself). Afterwards, the nominator struck through this statement and added "Nomination withdrawn" beneath it. To me, it seems completely unambiguous that their intention was to close the AfD as withdrawn, and that consensus to do so is unanimous. My question, then, is whether it is condign for me to close the discussion as "withdrawn". I suspect that the answer is "no", since I participated in it, but I am curious as to what the general opinion is on this. jp× g 21:05, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
I performed a NAC of this discussion, on the basis of unanimous consensus to delete, and tagged the article as {{ G6}} (with the intention of reverting my close if the G6 was declined). However, asking around, I get the impression that this may not have been compliant with process, so I would be interested in feedback (and if anything ought to be done about the situation). jp× g 02:42, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
Wow, a discussions for discussion forum, so meta! I hope I'm in the right place; editor JPxG directed me here.
This is about the ongoing and hotly contested AfD debate, in regards to the article about recent suspension of journalist Twitter accounts that happened under Musk's direction.
The current AfD discussion is far from over, and should be allowed to run its course, but in my opinion ( and at the request of several other editors), it might be nice for this to be eventually closed by a small panel of admins, if possible?
If I should post this plea for help elsewhere (such as at WP:Closure requests) then please let me know, thanks!!
Your assistance and consideration of this matter is very much appreciated!
Cheers!
98.155.8.5 (
talk) 06:02, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
This discussion pertains to some paragraphs that one editor removed and posted an explanation of their removal on the talk page of the article. One other (relatively new) editor wasn't happy with the removal, made some arguments against removing it, and has now requested the discussion be formally closed.
My view on this is that this discussion simply doesn't require a closure, it's a normal discussion about content in the article; only 3 people are involved in the discussion, clearly, they disagree, and that's fine. I think I should point the requestor to the RFC process, and maybe an essay or two on how to achieve consensus?
Would doing this be appropriate? If so, would removing the request for closure, with a {{Not-done}} also be appropriate? Or should I just direct them to RFC and leave it alone? JeffUK ( talk) 21:30, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
I intend to close this incongruous "Requested move not to move" that was started based on a premise that a 2019 move needs to be ceremonially ratified in a bureaucratic excercise of pure process-for-the-sake-of-process. It is also very evident that it contests a (hypothetical) move to "Non-fiction"; however, no one proposes a move to non-fiction so this is a non-issue. (The page was moved in 2019 from Non-fiction to Nonfiction which does not seem to have been contested.) There's no reason for a RM. I commented in the thread with a "procedural close" comment. Regardless, I consider myself to be uninvolved because I was addressing a procedural issue. Is it appropriate if I procedurally close it? — Alalch E. 12:40, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
Update: I NAC'd the discussion, after thinking more about it, based on my strongly held views around policy. Immediately afterwards it was revealed that the RM nominator was mistaken in their belief that the RM had been recommended (it wasn't; easy to find on the talk page). What was recommended was CfD. They started a CfD (Jan 16). — Alalch E. 18:51, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
Should this be closed? The talk page hasn't been active at all lately (seemingly, the only activity in the last couple months is people asking if it can be closed). The RfC was prompted by an ArbCom motion, though, so it seems like it would be difficult for a non-arbitrator to just close it sua sponte. jp× g 18:07, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
I am trying to close stale proposed mergers as part of my work on WikiProject Merge. Since it has been a while since I closed a non-unambiguous discussion, I am asking for input from the experienced closers here.
Although the number of editors for and against is balanced, it initially seemed to me that proposer is the only one who's arguments are based on relevant policy, namely on the fact that there is overlap and that they are better understood in context, as well as the combined article not being too long. Neither of the other arguments seem to go beyond saying that the two topics are not identical, and making an OTHERSTUFF argument. On the other hand, WP:Merge does say that discrete topics with enough sources is an argument against a merger, so perhaps this gives enough backing to opposers' !votes to close as no consensus? Felix QW ( talk) 14:02, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
This discussion has been open since April and really needs to be closed. I personally see no consensus here - the nomination has two users in support and three in opposition, and despite the large amount of back-and-forth arguing and bold actions (including a related move request also closed as "no consensus") neither side has gained any headway convincing the other one. The underlying dispute, as to whether dukes and lords of Milan are sufficiently related to be categorized together, is not something in which there are any clear overriding guidelines I can use to bring it to any other resolution. Thoughts? * Pppery * it has begun... 23:26, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
I have been wondering how to determine the consensus in overly long discussions that may have 40 print-pages worth of text. I am a very detailed-oriented person so I would try to build a spreadsheet, define standards and sets, compare and analyze each comment. Such endeavor could take me weeks. How do you do it? Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 22:02, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
A number of months ago, I created WP:LLM, which was initially a very small and concise summary of how existing policies applied to large language models. Pretty quickly, people started adding to it, and for a while we were going back and forth thinking of new things and tacking them on wherever there seemed to be lacunae. While this resulted in a great information page/essay, unfortunately, it also resulted in the page having some dozens and dozens of provisions -- something virtually impossible to hold an adoption RfC for.
At some point, a few of the major editors agreed that it might be worth trying to trim the page down, or make a separate (much smaller) page and then try to get that approved through an RfC. I was going to do this (and I swear, officer, I was right on my way to get it taken care of!) but in the meantime, I see that someone has started a giant WP:CENT-listed RfC at WT:LLM, which is not looking great (nine for promotion, thirteen against). Should I just go ahead and write the abridged version and CENT that, or what? jp× g 07:10, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
Another exceedingly-long discussion that has been open since June and listed at WP:CR since August 15. There's clearly not a consensus for the original proposal, and the participants seem to have acknowledged that fact. I don't think there's quite a consensus for the alt proposal either, with four people clearly in support, three people clearly opposed, and then a lot of participants who haven't explicitly commented on it despite being pinged. There's a second alt proposal of "People from country by county/province/state", which is much closer to a consensus with nobody (or maybe only one person) explicitly objecting to it, but given the complexity of the discussion, it's obscurity relative to the two main proposals, and the fact that it isn't fully-defined, it isn't really right to close it as a consensus that way either.
What all three sides come down to (except for a few participants who didn't explain their reasoning) is a question of what various words in the English language mean/how users will interpret them. And I don't feel as closer I have any overriding guidelines to rely on to draw a consensus out of this tangle. * Pppery * it has begun... 16:30, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
I recently closed the WP:RM at Talk:The Expendables 4#Requested move 25 September 2023. I don't think anyone disputes that the outcome was no consensus, but there is a post-discussion dispute as to what constitutes the status quo ante to which the title should default absence such a consensus. The move history of the article, in short, is:
Am I correct in finding that in the absence of consensus, the title defaults to The Expendables 4? I won't be bruised if I'm told I have gotten it wrong, I just want to be sure my reasoning is sound. Cheers! BD2412 T 20:42, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
A tricky CfD that has been open since October 5. The basic outlines of the discussion are clear - there's a consensus to rename somewhere, but no clear consensus on where and a lengthy back-and-forth has failed to clarify matters. This unfortunately leaves which name to give the category unclear. I'm personally inclined to close with the original rename as it received slightly more support (3 users vs. two), but I'm interested in hearing what others here think. * Pppery * it has begun... 01:18, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
The last unclosed CfD from October I'm not involved in. This is an example of a phenomenon I've seen in plenty of other occasions: a proposal gets lots of support, and then a late opposition argument comes in making a point nobody else considered, and then despite the discussion remaining open for weeks there are no further comments. Neither a "no consensus" closure (since in the abstract there is a consensus) nor a "merge" closure (which would amount to practically discrediting Andejons' input solely because they arrived a day late) really feels right, and we can't really relist either since that was tried two weeks ago without getting anywhere. Thoughts? * Pppery * it has begun... 20:56, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
Talk:Israel#Request for Comment on apartheid charges has come up on WP:CR. At the top of that discussion, there are warnings that editors may have been inappropriately canvassed to the discussion; one editor says that it is specifically those prone to opposing the proposition. How should a closer deal with such a situation? I tried looking at WP:CANVASS but it didn't have much advice. -- Maddy from Celeste ( WAVEDASH) 15:51, 29 November 2023 (UTC)