Category:21st-century Kurdish people by occupation
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Merge per nom. Gangs are a topic in which ethnicity is often actually defining, but as demonstrated above the content is already categorized as such through other, better, means.
Place Clichy (
talk)
10:08, 5 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Celebrity concepts
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge. Only has one (or two) pages in them, which isn't very helpful for navigation. I'm on the fence about whether these categories are defining or not...
Mason (
talk)
22:31, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Pavel Roman Memorial
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Category:Wars involving the Donetsk People's Republic
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Delete. These have never been sovereign state parties, they have always been de-facto controlled by Russia, and their militias have always been staffed by Russian officers and under Russian command. And these militias have only been involved in one war, the Russo-Ukrainian War, as Russian proxies and alongside Russian forces. The categories are meaningless and misleading. —MichaelZ.04:18, 3 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Merano Cup
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Category:Foreign-born politicians
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Nominator's rationale: Apart from the Australian, Canadian and New Zealand subcategories I've nominated below, the only other contents remaining here are four US-specific lists (one omnibus list and three sublists for cabinet members, state governors and senators). Even those lists are still of questionable necessity — I'll grant the "natural born citizen" restriction on the presidency as a US-specific factor, but (a) that isn't applicable to cabinet members, state governors or senators at all, and (b) being physically born on foreign soil does not automatically make one not a "natural born citizen" as the citizenship status of the parents comes into play as well, so those lists are not across the board synonymous with "holders of lower offices who were ineligible to run for president" — but I'm not listing them for deletion here and now, and incidentally
Category:Foreign-born American politicians has been previously brought to CFD and deleted. But it's highly doubtful that they would need a dedicated category for them, as they're all already somewhere in the
Category:Lists of political office-holders in the United States tree as it is, and even if a category is warranted it would have to be US-specific since there's no legitimately
defining basis for categorizing people this way in any other country. So this needs to be either deleted, or renamed to something exclusively American.
Bearcat (
talk)
16:32, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. (fwiw, I created this parent category to gather all the child categories together.) I don't have an investment in the concept and agree that it isn't really defining.
Mason (
talk)
22:06, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. List articles appropriately cover the topic, when and where it is a topic. Placing this category on individual people's articles is an inappropriate
WP:LABEL.
Place Clichy (
talk)
10:11, 5 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment just a comment as I'm too unfamiliar with the policies discussed, but, for example, the European Parliament allows someone foreign born to be elected,
Carles Puigdemont comes to mind, some local elections in Europe does too, simply based on a place of residence.
Respublik (
talk)
22:55, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Foreign born Australian politicians
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Nominator's rationale: Categories for a
non-defining intersection of unrelated traits. I'm bundling these separately from the Canadian sibling I've nominated below, as Australia does have a rule that a foreign-born Australian citizen has to renounce any foreign citizenships before they're allowed to hold some Australian political offices -- however, that's such a minor, easily-attainable process that can typically be completed within a matter of days, so the question of whether they were born in Australia or outside of it is basically just a minor speed bump rather than a permanently defining characteristic of a politician's entire career. New Zealand also doesn't have any rule barring foreign-born citizens from holding political office in Aotearoa, either, although I don't know whether they handle it more like Australia or Canada -- but it's still unlikely to define a Kiwi's entire political career.
Bearcat (
talk)
16:04, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. List articles appropriately cover the topic, when and where it is a topic. Placing this category on individual people's articles is an inappropriate
WP:LABEL.
Place Clichy (
talk)
10:12, 5 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Keep (as I understand it, please ping me if I got something wrong). The service does not appear to have been renamed, it appears to have ended without a replacement. However, that is not a reason this category should be deleted. We categorize based on past characterizations all the time; as just one example,
Category:Trump administration cabinet members.HouseBlastertalk23:14, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
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Cultural depictions by nationality and gender
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Nominator's rationale: merge per
WP:OCEGRS, a split of cultural depictions by gender is rather trivial and cultural depictions of men of any nationality or of women of any nationality are not a notable topic in themselves.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
08:52, 25 December 2023 (UTC) (signed a day later)reply
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Category:Cultural depictions of female monarchs
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Keep Spliting by gender is the most logical spliting there is, especially historically, almost nothing defines a monarchs life as much.
★Trekker (
talk)
10:29, 15 December 2023 (UTC)reply
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People by populated place in the United States
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The result of the discussion was:rename , using the alt rename targets where applicable.There is weak consensus to use the alt rename targets, with no prejudice against another nomination focusing soley on those.
(non-admin closure)Qwerfjkltalk17:29, 10 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Ah, I completely missed that. Thank you! I wasn't aware of this. But I would say that the other categories should also be named with such a format.
Omnis Scientia (
talk)
14:15, 3 December 2023 (UTC)reply
I am aware that many categories are currently being renamed from "by state" to "by state or territory". I do not have a particular opinion about it, apart from preferring to maintain consistency.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
12:57, 22 December 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Qwerfjkl, support alt rename as well as the original nom. Per an objection to the "state or territory" renames in speedy, I support the original renames but NOT the alt renames until there is a further discussion on the matter.
Omnis Scientia (
talk)
11:15, 24 December 2023 (UTC)reply
(after relisting) @
Omnis Scientia: do you actually oppose the use of by state or territory, or do you just acknowledge that one user opposed some of your own speedy renamings of other such categories not listed in this discussion? There seem to be strong arguments for the inclusion of places like Washington D.C. and the Alaska Territory in American categories diffused by geography, and unfortunately some pernikety users keep removing them from such categories when they just use by state because they are not states. CfD is "stronger" than speedy discussion, if I may say, so of course we are not prevented to agree on a new name for these categories because of the speedy objection. We had that discussion before several times (
example).
Place Clichy (
talk)
13:24, 5 January 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Place Clichy, I don't oppose the rename personally because I think it makes sense but a few users did strongly oppose all speedy renames to "state or territory" (I did a handful but most were done by @
Aidan721 and @
Smasongarrison) regardless of what the subject was a while back and it was suggested that this go back to full discussion with the WikiProjects of insular areas involved this time.
Support rename and think that this rename should intentionally include "Washington D.C., historic territories and insular areas" as there's really no reason to exclude them
Mason (
talk)
22:09, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kentucky Territory judges
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No objection, as category creator. Upon reviewing the history of the matter, Kentucky was admitted as a new state very shortly after splitting from Virginia (which was already a state), and therefore had a very short time as a territory. It appears that the lone subject of this category was the only person who was officially the territorial judge of this territory.
BD2412T15:36, 24 December 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Foreign-born Canadian politicians
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Nominator's rationale: Category for a
non-defining intersection of unrelated traits. Canada does not place any limitations on the eligibility of foreign-born citizens to hold political office, so the question of whether they were born in Canada or outside of it is not relevant to these people's political careers at all.
Bearcat (
talk)
15:39, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:1190s establishments in the Ayyubid Sultanate
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Oppose obviously a redundant cleaning work for a category which could be expanded and populalated. Just added another entry and more establishments in 12th century Ayyubid Sultanate. Those maintanance deletions of cateogories which can be populated (easily) is not helpful for Wikipedia.
GreyShark (
dibra)
18:58, 21 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge -- Usual solution for small categories. The normal minimum is five. I have occasionally argued for less where there is no obvious merge target, but usually there is one.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:48, 26 December 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Australian mid-20th century modern painters
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Nominator's rationale: Dual merge. I don't think that the intersection between century, nationality, and artistic movement is defining. If kept, it should be renamed Australian modern painters
Mason (
talk)
02:42, 16 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks for asking! This is always going to be super-messy.
Category:Modern painters "Painters who have played a role in the history of modern art, dating from the late 19th century until (approximately) the 1970s", which I think is ok. I looked at a few random entries (there are approaching 2,000 in the head-cat and sub-cats) and they all met that definition, though none actually used "modern painter or a painter of modern art" in the lead, but more specific terms (or no term at all). Many could no doubt be moved to more specific categories, although of course a category like say
Category:Abstract expressionist artists very often won't match an artist's whole career.
Johnbod (
talk)
13:57, 3 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment - Just so it's said: There really is not that much of a difference between performer by performance, and artist by
style, or writer by
genre. All three concepts should probably be listified/deleted. That said, I suppose I can see an argument for categorizing artist by
Art movement. Which, I think is what we're talking about here. So Split/Merge per the others above. - jc3705:42, 10 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Free and open-source software programmed in C
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Nominator's rationale: Not a helpful distinction. When I made it, I didn't really think through the fact that every other page (than the single child category) was called military leader
Mason (
talk)
05:06, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Swiss military personnel by war
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Category:Austro-Hungarian military personnel by war
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Category:Yugoslav military personnel by war
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Category:Kim Yu-sin
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Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization. This is a category with only two pages in it, the subject and a shrine dedicated to them.
Mason (
talk)
04:50, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Lieutenant field marshals of the Austrian Empire
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Category:Polling places
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A
polling place is school, firehouse, other public building, or private location that temporarily place to vote on eleciton day then returns to it's normal function the next day. This category was never populated but
WP:NARROWCAT is not a problem: in the 2018 elections there were more than 230,000 polling places in the United States (
sourcel). -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
01:24, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:State land commissioners of the United States
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Clarify, Please explain what non-defining is intended to mean in this context. There are several articles and possibly other redirects in
"Category:diving equipment which would reasonably be considered diving accessory equipment, but it is not a big deal either way. · · ·
Peter Southwood(talk):
07:50, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Military tents
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Category:Team Handball League
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Nominator's rationale: Empty Category associated with a now deleted page
Team Handball League. The deletion note explains that "While there were several hits for the generic term, team handball league, I couldn't find a single reference for this particular league"
Mason (
talk)
00:46, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete/merge per nom, although I am skeptical of the usefulness of the templates in the merge candidates - It is likely those should similarly be deleted if the article in question about the league has been deleted, but I suppose that can be a decision for TfD.
VegaDark (
talk)
18:16, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I've also nominated the templates. I agree that the templates aren't useful, but the merge allows them to not be orphaned in case someone else disagrees.
Mason (
talk)
22:12, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Search and rescue
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Oppose. Many rescues do not involve a search, and many searches do not involve a rescue, Intersecting categories, but not at all fully overlapping either way. · · ·
Peter Southwood(talk):
09:50, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Austrian Empire military personnel of the French Revolutionary Wars
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Category:21st-century Kurdish people by occupation
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Merge per nom. Gangs are a topic in which ethnicity is often actually defining, but as demonstrated above the content is already categorized as such through other, better, means.
Place Clichy (
talk)
10:08, 5 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Celebrity concepts
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge. Only has one (or two) pages in them, which isn't very helpful for navigation. I'm on the fence about whether these categories are defining or not...
Mason (
talk)
22:31, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Pavel Roman Memorial
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Category:Wars involving the Donetsk People's Republic
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Delete. These have never been sovereign state parties, they have always been de-facto controlled by Russia, and their militias have always been staffed by Russian officers and under Russian command. And these militias have only been involved in one war, the Russo-Ukrainian War, as Russian proxies and alongside Russian forces. The categories are meaningless and misleading. —MichaelZ.04:18, 3 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Merano Cup
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Category:Foreign-born politicians
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Nominator's rationale: Apart from the Australian, Canadian and New Zealand subcategories I've nominated below, the only other contents remaining here are four US-specific lists (one omnibus list and three sublists for cabinet members, state governors and senators). Even those lists are still of questionable necessity — I'll grant the "natural born citizen" restriction on the presidency as a US-specific factor, but (a) that isn't applicable to cabinet members, state governors or senators at all, and (b) being physically born on foreign soil does not automatically make one not a "natural born citizen" as the citizenship status of the parents comes into play as well, so those lists are not across the board synonymous with "holders of lower offices who were ineligible to run for president" — but I'm not listing them for deletion here and now, and incidentally
Category:Foreign-born American politicians has been previously brought to CFD and deleted. But it's highly doubtful that they would need a dedicated category for them, as they're all already somewhere in the
Category:Lists of political office-holders in the United States tree as it is, and even if a category is warranted it would have to be US-specific since there's no legitimately
defining basis for categorizing people this way in any other country. So this needs to be either deleted, or renamed to something exclusively American.
Bearcat (
talk)
16:32, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. (fwiw, I created this parent category to gather all the child categories together.) I don't have an investment in the concept and agree that it isn't really defining.
Mason (
talk)
22:06, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. List articles appropriately cover the topic, when and where it is a topic. Placing this category on individual people's articles is an inappropriate
WP:LABEL.
Place Clichy (
talk)
10:11, 5 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment just a comment as I'm too unfamiliar with the policies discussed, but, for example, the European Parliament allows someone foreign born to be elected,
Carles Puigdemont comes to mind, some local elections in Europe does too, simply based on a place of residence.
Respublik (
talk)
22:55, 8 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Foreign born Australian politicians
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Nominator's rationale: Categories for a
non-defining intersection of unrelated traits. I'm bundling these separately from the Canadian sibling I've nominated below, as Australia does have a rule that a foreign-born Australian citizen has to renounce any foreign citizenships before they're allowed to hold some Australian political offices -- however, that's such a minor, easily-attainable process that can typically be completed within a matter of days, so the question of whether they were born in Australia or outside of it is basically just a minor speed bump rather than a permanently defining characteristic of a politician's entire career. New Zealand also doesn't have any rule barring foreign-born citizens from holding political office in Aotearoa, either, although I don't know whether they handle it more like Australia or Canada -- but it's still unlikely to define a Kiwi's entire political career.
Bearcat (
talk)
16:04, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. List articles appropriately cover the topic, when and where it is a topic. Placing this category on individual people's articles is an inappropriate
WP:LABEL.
Place Clichy (
talk)
10:12, 5 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Keep (as I understand it, please ping me if I got something wrong). The service does not appear to have been renamed, it appears to have ended without a replacement. However, that is not a reason this category should be deleted. We categorize based on past characterizations all the time; as just one example,
Category:Trump administration cabinet members.HouseBlastertalk23:14, 31 December 2023 (UTC)reply
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Cultural depictions by nationality and gender
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Nominator's rationale: merge per
WP:OCEGRS, a split of cultural depictions by gender is rather trivial and cultural depictions of men of any nationality or of women of any nationality are not a notable topic in themselves.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
08:52, 25 December 2023 (UTC) (signed a day later)reply
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Category:Cultural depictions of female monarchs
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Keep Spliting by gender is the most logical spliting there is, especially historically, almost nothing defines a monarchs life as much.
★Trekker (
talk)
10:29, 15 December 2023 (UTC)reply
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People by populated place in the United States
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The result of the discussion was:rename , using the alt rename targets where applicable.There is weak consensus to use the alt rename targets, with no prejudice against another nomination focusing soley on those.
(non-admin closure)Qwerfjkltalk17:29, 10 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Ah, I completely missed that. Thank you! I wasn't aware of this. But I would say that the other categories should also be named with such a format.
Omnis Scientia (
talk)
14:15, 3 December 2023 (UTC)reply
I am aware that many categories are currently being renamed from "by state" to "by state or territory". I do not have a particular opinion about it, apart from preferring to maintain consistency.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
12:57, 22 December 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Qwerfjkl, support alt rename as well as the original nom. Per an objection to the "state or territory" renames in speedy, I support the original renames but NOT the alt renames until there is a further discussion on the matter.
Omnis Scientia (
talk)
11:15, 24 December 2023 (UTC)reply
(after relisting) @
Omnis Scientia: do you actually oppose the use of by state or territory, or do you just acknowledge that one user opposed some of your own speedy renamings of other such categories not listed in this discussion? There seem to be strong arguments for the inclusion of places like Washington D.C. and the Alaska Territory in American categories diffused by geography, and unfortunately some pernikety users keep removing them from such categories when they just use by state because they are not states. CfD is "stronger" than speedy discussion, if I may say, so of course we are not prevented to agree on a new name for these categories because of the speedy objection. We had that discussion before several times (
example).
Place Clichy (
talk)
13:24, 5 January 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Place Clichy, I don't oppose the rename personally because I think it makes sense but a few users did strongly oppose all speedy renames to "state or territory" (I did a handful but most were done by @
Aidan721 and @
Smasongarrison) regardless of what the subject was a while back and it was suggested that this go back to full discussion with the WikiProjects of insular areas involved this time.
Support rename and think that this rename should intentionally include "Washington D.C., historic territories and insular areas" as there's really no reason to exclude them
Mason (
talk)
22:09, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kentucky Territory judges
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No objection, as category creator. Upon reviewing the history of the matter, Kentucky was admitted as a new state very shortly after splitting from Virginia (which was already a state), and therefore had a very short time as a territory. It appears that the lone subject of this category was the only person who was officially the territorial judge of this territory.
BD2412T15:36, 24 December 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Foreign-born Canadian politicians
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Nominator's rationale: Category for a
non-defining intersection of unrelated traits. Canada does not place any limitations on the eligibility of foreign-born citizens to hold political office, so the question of whether they were born in Canada or outside of it is not relevant to these people's political careers at all.
Bearcat (
talk)
15:39, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:1190s establishments in the Ayyubid Sultanate
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Oppose obviously a redundant cleaning work for a category which could be expanded and populalated. Just added another entry and more establishments in 12th century Ayyubid Sultanate. Those maintanance deletions of cateogories which can be populated (easily) is not helpful for Wikipedia.
GreyShark (
dibra)
18:58, 21 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge -- Usual solution for small categories. The normal minimum is five. I have occasionally argued for less where there is no obvious merge target, but usually there is one.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:48, 26 December 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Australian mid-20th century modern painters
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Nominator's rationale: Dual merge. I don't think that the intersection between century, nationality, and artistic movement is defining. If kept, it should be renamed Australian modern painters
Mason (
talk)
02:42, 16 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks for asking! This is always going to be super-messy.
Category:Modern painters "Painters who have played a role in the history of modern art, dating from the late 19th century until (approximately) the 1970s", which I think is ok. I looked at a few random entries (there are approaching 2,000 in the head-cat and sub-cats) and they all met that definition, though none actually used "modern painter or a painter of modern art" in the lead, but more specific terms (or no term at all). Many could no doubt be moved to more specific categories, although of course a category like say
Category:Abstract expressionist artists very often won't match an artist's whole career.
Johnbod (
talk)
13:57, 3 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment - Just so it's said: There really is not that much of a difference between performer by performance, and artist by
style, or writer by
genre. All three concepts should probably be listified/deleted. That said, I suppose I can see an argument for categorizing artist by
Art movement. Which, I think is what we're talking about here. So Split/Merge per the others above. - jc3705:42, 10 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Free and open-source software programmed in C
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Nominator's rationale: Not a helpful distinction. When I made it, I didn't really think through the fact that every other page (than the single child category) was called military leader
Mason (
talk)
05:06, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Swiss military personnel by war
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Category:Austro-Hungarian military personnel by war
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Category:Yugoslav military personnel by war
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Category:Kim Yu-sin
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Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization. This is a category with only two pages in it, the subject and a shrine dedicated to them.
Mason (
talk)
04:50, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Lieutenant field marshals of the Austrian Empire
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Category:Polling places
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A
polling place is school, firehouse, other public building, or private location that temporarily place to vote on eleciton day then returns to it's normal function the next day. This category was never populated but
WP:NARROWCAT is not a problem: in the 2018 elections there were more than 230,000 polling places in the United States (
sourcel). -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
01:24, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:State land commissioners of the United States
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Clarify, Please explain what non-defining is intended to mean in this context. There are several articles and possibly other redirects in
"Category:diving equipment which would reasonably be considered diving accessory equipment, but it is not a big deal either way. · · ·
Peter Southwood(talk):
07:50, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Military tents
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Category:Team Handball League
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Nominator's rationale: Empty Category associated with a now deleted page
Team Handball League. The deletion note explains that "While there were several hits for the generic term, team handball league, I couldn't find a single reference for this particular league"
Mason (
talk)
00:46, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete/merge per nom, although I am skeptical of the usefulness of the templates in the merge candidates - It is likely those should similarly be deleted if the article in question about the league has been deleted, but I suppose that can be a decision for TfD.
VegaDark (
talk)
18:16, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I've also nominated the templates. I agree that the templates aren't useful, but the merge allows them to not be orphaned in case someone else disagrees.
Mason (
talk)
22:12, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Search and rescue
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Oppose. Many rescues do not involve a search, and many searches do not involve a rescue, Intersecting categories, but not at all fully overlapping either way. · · ·
Peter Southwood(talk):
09:50, 1 January 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Austrian Empire military personnel of the French Revolutionary Wars
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