Category:People from the Free and Hanseatic City of Bremen
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Category:Physicians from the Kingdom of Prussia
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Category:Right-wing politicians in Israel
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Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization, should be upmerged, as there is only one child category (Far-right politicians in Israel)
Mason (
talk)
03:49, 21 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Comment. If kept, it should be renamed to "Israeli right-wing politicians" as the standard to denote nationality is to use "FOOian" or "from FOO"
Mason (
talk)
03:13, 24 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Merge whole category or just the subcat? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk19:40, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Meo is an ethnic group refering to Muslim's belonging to villages from the region, hence it is plausable for the category to be named "Meo people". In terms of the standard Indian language, the correct and more appropriate title is"Mewati people".
Ah507 (
talk)
03:53, 24 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Rename to
Category:Meo people. In the spirit of consensus, also support Delete outcome per Marcocapelle as second-best option. In India, caste is often defining for many individuals, especially in a historical context. Article
Zakir Hussain (Haryana politician), for instance, consistently links this identification with events in Hussain's biography: He was the first college graduate in the Meo (Muslim) Community... He was responsible for the Meo Community's decision to stay in India at the behest of Mahatma Gandhi [...] instead of going to Pakistan... He was the Chaudhary (Social Head) of Meo (Muslim) Community... So that would certainly be defining for this article, one of the few I looked up. Other articles mention a link to the
Political families of Haryana#Shri Rahim Khan Clan of Mewat (presented as "the most prominent out of all of the Meo Muslim Clans of Mewat") but that's not entirely defining in the ethnic sense. So in any case if kept, the category may need to be purged of articles not eligible per
WP:EGRS.
Place Clichy (
talk)
15:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)reply
I think you are unaware of the socio-religious context of the ethnic term "Meo". Meo's are the people who lived under the
Khanzada Rulers of Mewat. The term Meo is region specific and religion specific as well. Meo's are considered an ethnicity under the
Other Backward Class scheme of the Government of India. (refer to BLOCK B, Number 5), which refers to socially backwards or disadvangated castes (ethnic groups) . In order to be a Meo, one needs to belong to the region and needs to be a Muslim as well, there are no Hindu Ethnic Meos. In the article
Zakir Hussain (Haryana politician), the term Meo community is refering to Meos as an ethnic group. In the second article you referenced,
Political families of Haryana#Shri Rahim Khan Clan of Mewat, the term "Muslim" is being used as discretional specificity because it is already known that ethnic Meo's are Muslim. Meos are legally recognized as an ethnic group or caste under the schemes of the Indian Government.
Ah507 (
talk)
10:17, 4 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Also one more thing I want to make clear is that not every Muslim from the region of
Mewat is necessarily a
Meo. The ethnicity has already been compounded from the previous castes and clans the poeple of this region belonged to, hence, it is impossible for someone from the region who originally belonged to another caste to adopt Islam and then be called a Meo. In short, Meos are indeed a recognized ethnic group and their ethnicity has already been established.
Ah507 (
talk)
10:43, 4 October 2023 (UTC)reply
(answered after relisting) Based on these explanations, I still think that renaming to
Category:Meo people is the best solution, unless there is a grammatical issue I did not see. I don't think I ever argued that there existed Hindu Meos.
Place Clichy (
talk)
21:04, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support as per Place Clichy. When I originally proposed the merge to "Mewat people" I was considering "Mewat" an ethnicity. Now that we are considering Mewat as an historical region and "Meo" as an ethnicity, renaming the category Meo people seems logical and in accordance with the scheme used in
Category:Ethnic groups in India.
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Category:Rasborinae stubs
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Template:Rasborinae-stub
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Category:Emigrants from the Kingdom of Bavaria to the United Kingdom
Category:Papua New Guinean Commanders of the Order of St Michael and St George
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Comment Again,
Richiepip, there is no point in having a week long discussion if you are going to empty a category out of process. There is also no point in renaming an empty category. LizRead!Talk!01:15, 6 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Commanders of the Order of St Michael and St George
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Emptying was simply a consequence of its entire existence being erroneous, it would not be correct for those articles to be in a category for something that does not exist.
Richiepip (
talk)
01:39, 6 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Seasons in men's ice hockey
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Category:Matt Gaetz
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Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary category - unlikely that it will ever grow beyond just a few articles. Categories are not meta tags.
ButlerBlog (
talk)
17:28, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support delete. Eponymous categories are much rarer, serve to help navigating related topics, that can't be connected otherwise.
Mason (
talk)
19:16, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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The articles confused me and got me believe that it entirely took place in Austria and Sweden respectively. In that case support merge per nom.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
07:23, 6 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Korean language in Japan
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Category:Koreans in China
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Merge per nom. This format is unanimously approved in many CfDs: (
1,
2,
3,
4...) Two of its benefits is that it unambiguously separates topic articles from people categories, per
WP:COPSEP, and that it covers a wide range of topics (culture, local population seen collectively, people of recent or more ancient local presence etc.).
Place Clichy (
talk)
23:56, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's rationale: Article
Baháʼí Faith in the Samoas treats the history of the Baháʼís in both parts of the Samoan archipelago. A user had create the first nominated category, which does not fall under the schemes at
Category:Bahá'í Faith by country or
Category:Religion by country. I attempted to create two national categories but I was reverted and therefore I ask the opinion of the community. Besides the main article, the only content is Malietoa Tanumafili II, head of state of (independent) Samoa, who was of the Bahá'í faith. Note that content relative to American Samoa is pretty light, even in the main article. My preference would be Option A (per the structure of parent and sibling categories) > Option C (seen the amount of content) > Option B.
Place Clichy (
talk)
13:44, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
I'm for option B. From what I've seen while there is distinction of the communities there is also unity between them. However I'm not locally based - just what I've seen in the article's coverage that implies more in common than distinct between the places. Adding them to the schemes of "by country" seems more an option of adjustments.
Smkolins (
talk)
13:52, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
merging with Oceania doesn't make sense because there's a broad region of things that are more unaffiliated than affiliate? It's useful in some arenas but less so in others? my pov.
Smkolins (
talk)
13:57, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Overseas Korean groups
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Category:Expatriates of the Kingdom of England
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: the discussion has been procedural (which in this case seems to have been a Good Thing), but discussion on the proposal itself is still needed. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
HouseBlastertalk02:47, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Expatriates of the Kingdom of Ireland
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Category:Principality of Sedan
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You might be right, but I did pick france based on the
history section of the main article. My understanding is that the principality started as part of the french kingdom in 1424, broke away from the French kingdom in 1560, and then were annexed back by France in 1642. I'm not opposed to another target for the merge (but france was the only one I really saw in my brief read).
Mason (
talk)
19:28, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Emigrants from the Kingdom of Scotland to Sweden
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Delete for Swedish empire is fine with me. I don't really have strong opinions about it. My goal is to consolidate redunant categories
Mason (
talk)
23:52, 9 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:People from the Free and Hanseatic City of Bremen
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Category:Physicians from the Kingdom of Prussia
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Category:Right-wing politicians in Israel
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Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization, should be upmerged, as there is only one child category (Far-right politicians in Israel)
Mason (
talk)
03:49, 21 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Comment. If kept, it should be renamed to "Israeli right-wing politicians" as the standard to denote nationality is to use "FOOian" or "from FOO"
Mason (
talk)
03:13, 24 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Merge whole category or just the subcat? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Qwerfjkltalk19:40, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Meo is an ethnic group refering to Muslim's belonging to villages from the region, hence it is plausable for the category to be named "Meo people". In terms of the standard Indian language, the correct and more appropriate title is"Mewati people".
Ah507 (
talk)
03:53, 24 September 2023 (UTC)reply
Rename to
Category:Meo people. In the spirit of consensus, also support Delete outcome per Marcocapelle as second-best option. In India, caste is often defining for many individuals, especially in a historical context. Article
Zakir Hussain (Haryana politician), for instance, consistently links this identification with events in Hussain's biography: He was the first college graduate in the Meo (Muslim) Community... He was responsible for the Meo Community's decision to stay in India at the behest of Mahatma Gandhi [...] instead of going to Pakistan... He was the Chaudhary (Social Head) of Meo (Muslim) Community... So that would certainly be defining for this article, one of the few I looked up. Other articles mention a link to the
Political families of Haryana#Shri Rahim Khan Clan of Mewat (presented as "the most prominent out of all of the Meo Muslim Clans of Mewat") but that's not entirely defining in the ethnic sense. So in any case if kept, the category may need to be purged of articles not eligible per
WP:EGRS.
Place Clichy (
talk)
15:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)reply
I think you are unaware of the socio-religious context of the ethnic term "Meo". Meo's are the people who lived under the
Khanzada Rulers of Mewat. The term Meo is region specific and religion specific as well. Meo's are considered an ethnicity under the
Other Backward Class scheme of the Government of India. (refer to BLOCK B, Number 5), which refers to socially backwards or disadvangated castes (ethnic groups) . In order to be a Meo, one needs to belong to the region and needs to be a Muslim as well, there are no Hindu Ethnic Meos. In the article
Zakir Hussain (Haryana politician), the term Meo community is refering to Meos as an ethnic group. In the second article you referenced,
Political families of Haryana#Shri Rahim Khan Clan of Mewat, the term "Muslim" is being used as discretional specificity because it is already known that ethnic Meo's are Muslim. Meos are legally recognized as an ethnic group or caste under the schemes of the Indian Government.
Ah507 (
talk)
10:17, 4 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Also one more thing I want to make clear is that not every Muslim from the region of
Mewat is necessarily a
Meo. The ethnicity has already been compounded from the previous castes and clans the poeple of this region belonged to, hence, it is impossible for someone from the region who originally belonged to another caste to adopt Islam and then be called a Meo. In short, Meos are indeed a recognized ethnic group and their ethnicity has already been established.
Ah507 (
talk)
10:43, 4 October 2023 (UTC)reply
(answered after relisting) Based on these explanations, I still think that renaming to
Category:Meo people is the best solution, unless there is a grammatical issue I did not see. I don't think I ever argued that there existed Hindu Meos.
Place Clichy (
talk)
21:04, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support as per Place Clichy. When I originally proposed the merge to "Mewat people" I was considering "Mewat" an ethnicity. Now that we are considering Mewat as an historical region and "Meo" as an ethnicity, renaming the category Meo people seems logical and in accordance with the scheme used in
Category:Ethnic groups in India.
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Category:Rasborinae stubs
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Template:Rasborinae-stub
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Category:Emigrants from the Kingdom of Bavaria to the United Kingdom
Category:Papua New Guinean Commanders of the Order of St Michael and St George
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Comment Again,
Richiepip, there is no point in having a week long discussion if you are going to empty a category out of process. There is also no point in renaming an empty category. LizRead!Talk!01:15, 6 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Commanders of the Order of St Michael and St George
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Emptying was simply a consequence of its entire existence being erroneous, it would not be correct for those articles to be in a category for something that does not exist.
Richiepip (
talk)
01:39, 6 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Seasons in men's ice hockey
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Category:Matt Gaetz
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Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary category - unlikely that it will ever grow beyond just a few articles. Categories are not meta tags.
ButlerBlog (
talk)
17:28, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support delete. Eponymous categories are much rarer, serve to help navigating related topics, that can't be connected otherwise.
Mason (
talk)
19:16, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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The articles confused me and got me believe that it entirely took place in Austria and Sweden respectively. In that case support merge per nom.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
07:23, 6 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Korean language in Japan
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Category:Koreans in China
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Merge per nom. This format is unanimously approved in many CfDs: (
1,
2,
3,
4...) Two of its benefits is that it unambiguously separates topic articles from people categories, per
WP:COPSEP, and that it covers a wide range of topics (culture, local population seen collectively, people of recent or more ancient local presence etc.).
Place Clichy (
talk)
23:56, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's rationale: Article
Baháʼí Faith in the Samoas treats the history of the Baháʼís in both parts of the Samoan archipelago. A user had create the first nominated category, which does not fall under the schemes at
Category:Bahá'í Faith by country or
Category:Religion by country. I attempted to create two national categories but I was reverted and therefore I ask the opinion of the community. Besides the main article, the only content is Malietoa Tanumafili II, head of state of (independent) Samoa, who was of the Bahá'í faith. Note that content relative to American Samoa is pretty light, even in the main article. My preference would be Option A (per the structure of parent and sibling categories) > Option C (seen the amount of content) > Option B.
Place Clichy (
talk)
13:44, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
I'm for option B. From what I've seen while there is distinction of the communities there is also unity between them. However I'm not locally based - just what I've seen in the article's coverage that implies more in common than distinct between the places. Adding them to the schemes of "by country" seems more an option of adjustments.
Smkolins (
talk)
13:52, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
merging with Oceania doesn't make sense because there's a broad region of things that are more unaffiliated than affiliate? It's useful in some arenas but less so in others? my pov.
Smkolins (
talk)
13:57, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Overseas Korean groups
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Category:Expatriates of the Kingdom of England
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: the discussion has been procedural (which in this case seems to have been a Good Thing), but discussion on the proposal itself is still needed. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
HouseBlastertalk02:47, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Expatriates of the Kingdom of Ireland
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Category:Principality of Sedan
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You might be right, but I did pick france based on the
history section of the main article. My understanding is that the principality started as part of the french kingdom in 1424, broke away from the French kingdom in 1560, and then were annexed back by France in 1642. I'm not opposed to another target for the merge (but france was the only one I really saw in my brief read).
Mason (
talk)
19:28, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Emigrants from the Kingdom of Scotland to Sweden
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Delete for Swedish empire is fine with me. I don't really have strong opinions about it. My goal is to consolidate redunant categories
Mason (
talk)
23:52, 9 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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