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Category:Urartian people
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Category:Tenochca people by occupation
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The result of the discussion was:delete. As Marcocapelle pointed out, all involved articles are already a part of the category tree that they would be merged into.
(non-admin closure)HouseBlastertalk 01:09, 21 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:9th-century people of the Carolingian Empire
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Category:Kątski
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The result of the discussion was:merge/delete as nominated. There were arguments that these categories might be populate-able, but supporters noted that they can be recreated if and when they can be populated.
(non-admin closure)HouseBlastertalk 01:23, 21 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: one person in category, upmerge to clan when possible
Mason (
talk) 21:28, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
All of them have a potential to be populated, I actually added one member to the Ustrzycki family cat
Marcelus (
talk) 21:57, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Great find! I'm not opposed to recreating any of these categories if and when more content is available (5ish pages).
Mason (
talk) 01:11, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Sure, everything has the potential to be populated. But I don't see a realistic potential for them happening anytime soon. I do see that some of the categories are linked to inter-language categories, but that doesn't mean the non-english language pages are going to be created anytime soon.
Mason (
talk) 21:56, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
WP:SMALLCAT doesn't say anything about time tresholds. Sooner or later it will definitely happen considering constant growth of Wikipedia. There is no reason to remove category that we all know potentially consist several notable items.
Marcelus (
talk) 21:59, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
It is true that smallcat "doesn't say anything about time tresholds", but it doesn't forbid it, either. It does say realistic. I don't think that it is realistic to assume that every article on wikipedia will be created. "we all know potentially consist several notable items" We don't know that. Further, extending your logic would result in creating family categories for every family, because there's the potential for notable items.
Mason (
talk) 21:46, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
We know it for sources obviously. Most of them were influential noble families, that had many notable representatives. I don't really see the reason for deleting them in order to just create them later. I just think it would be better if before requesting deletion you would actually examine sources and check for articles that can eventually be put in those category. Look how frutiful our discussion about Glinka family turned out to be.
Marcelus (
talk) 21:57, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
> I don't really see the reason for deleting them in order to just create them later. I
Sigh... it's pretty clear that you haven't tried to consider other people's perspectives on this.
> I just think it would be better if before requesting deletion you would actually examine sources and check for articles that can eventually be put in those category
That's an uncharitable interpretation.
> Look how frutiful our discussion about Glinka family turned out to be
I don't think our discussion was fruitful. You kept making uncharitable statements and then didn't respond to my questions asking for you to explain where you get the uncharitable interpretations.
Mason (
talk) 02:21, 16 October 2023 (UTC)reply
You are making bunch of accusations against me, for no apparent reason.
Marcelus (
talk) 08:09, 16 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge for now, without prejudice to recreate any of these categories when it can be populated a lot better.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 04:20, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support merge per nom --
Lenticel(
talk) 12:52, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Schack family
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Merge Delete per nom --
Lenticel(
talk) 12:53, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Austerlitz family
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Nominator's rationale: Small cat with only 1 person + the corresponding eponymous article about the family
Mason (
talk) 21:21, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Białłozor (Wieniawa)
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Merge per nom as alternative to deletion --
Lenticel(
talk) 12:53, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Southwest League of Professional Baseball
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Category:Explorers from the Dutch Republic
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Nominator's rationale:WP:OVERLAPCAT. The intersection of regime and explorer is not defining. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 20:51, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom.
Mason (
talk) 20:56, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge, 17th century is more specific than Dutch Republic and all three articles fit the 17th century.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:58, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Printers from the Dutch Republic
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Support per nom.
Mason (
talk) 20:56, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom --
Lenticel(
talk) 09:31, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Rulers by century
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The result of the discussion was:keep. There was less discussion on the alt merge proposal, but that is to be expected for a sub-proposal; an interested party may consider raising it as its own nomination.
(non-admin closure)HouseBlastertalk 01:16, 21 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: More precise than simply 'ruler,' which can encompass a wide range of meanings. Furthermore, this can be regarded as C2D as the primary articles are already titled
Lists of state leaders by century.
Kpratter (
talk) 15:20, 6 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Rationale: redundant category layer with only two subcategories, similar as for centuries earlier than the 6th century.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 16:38, 6 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose The term leaders can also encompass a range of meanings. Does it include senator, MPs, first ladies, advisors, statesman, etc.? How do we know when modern states began? How do we know which are state leaders and which are rulers of society before modern states? tahcchat 20:38, 7 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support the renamings, as clearer in scope. *Oppose any mergers.
Dimadick (
talk) 21:55, 7 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose since the term of 'state' carries a lot of baggage that doesn't necessarily apply to all these individuals. ― novov(tc)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Edward-Woodrow •
talk 20:06, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
mild Oppose. I think that state leader is less clear.
Mason (
talk) 21:19, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose - "state leaders" is a useless made-up term.
Head of government and
Head of state is what you want. Rulers is fine at least until about 1790.
Johnbod (
talk) 21:28, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Legendary people by ethnicity or nationality
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Nominator's rationale:split, ethnicity and nationality are quite different things, each with their own category tree. When split, re-parent to either ethnicity or nationality.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:03, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom.
Mason (
talk) 20:56, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom --
Lenticel(
talk) 09:32, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Legendary Abkhazian people
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Delete/Merge - note that
Suffolkshire does not exist, & never has. The category was set up by an American editor.
Johnbod (
talk) 21:31, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks for confirming. (As an American editor, I wasn't sure if that was a missing category or a erroneous name)
Mason (
talk) 01:05, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Family by culture
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Merge per above --
Lenticel(
talk) 00:26, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:McDell Marine
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Nominator's rationale: single category
Mason (
talk) 11:55, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom. The subcategory may be nominated for upmerge to its other parents.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:27, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge per above --
Lenticel(
talk) 00:27, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Cities destroyed during the Russian invasion of Ukraine
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Support per nom --
Lenticel(
talk) 09:32, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Superheroes by ethnicity or nationality
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Nominator's rationale:rename, considering the content, "by continent" is a more appropriate name than the current name.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:04, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support. per nom
Mason (
talk) 11:57, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom --
Lenticel(
talk) 09:43, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Fictional people by nationality
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Nominator's rationale: rename and re-parent per actual content, these are categories simply split by nationality, not by ethnicity (save one exception). When renamed, they should also be re-parented to
Category:Fictional people by nationality.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:39, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support. per nom
Mason (
talk) 11:56, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom --
Lenticel(
talk) 09:42, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Cronstedt family residences
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The result of the discussion was:merge as proposed with no prejudice against recreation if and when they can be populated.
(non-admin closure)HouseBlastertalk 01:18, 21 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Keep The Dyre family is a centuries-old noble family which has owned at least a dozen different manors and at least a similar number of churches. There is thus a basuis for far more oages in this category.
Ramblersen2 (
talk) 09:49, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Glad to see it has two now, but until those pages exist I think the category needs to be merged
Mason (
talk) 11:58, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: over categorized. each has just one page in the category
Mason (
talk) 01:28, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge all, for now, with no prejudice to recreation of any of these categories if and when more content is available.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:33, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge all, for now. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 20:27, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's rationale: No need for these trees.
WP:NARROW. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 17:22, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
HouseBlastertalk 00:19, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge/delete per nom. Ice hockey is poorly developed in many countries.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Emigrants from the Kingdom of Bavaria to the United Kingdom
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Nominator's rationale: Fails
WP:CATDEF. Signing an open letter is not a defining characteristic, compared to signers of constitutions and declarations of independence.
NoonIcarus (
talk) 00:09, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. This typically calls for a list, and the list is already there in the main article.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:16, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom.
Mason (
talk) 01:09, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Urartian people
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Category:Tenochca people by occupation
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The result of the discussion was:delete. As Marcocapelle pointed out, all involved articles are already a part of the category tree that they would be merged into.
(non-admin closure)HouseBlastertalk 01:09, 21 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:9th-century people of the Carolingian Empire
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Category:Kątski
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The result of the discussion was:merge/delete as nominated. There were arguments that these categories might be populate-able, but supporters noted that they can be recreated if and when they can be populated.
(non-admin closure)HouseBlastertalk 01:23, 21 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: one person in category, upmerge to clan when possible
Mason (
talk) 21:28, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
All of them have a potential to be populated, I actually added one member to the Ustrzycki family cat
Marcelus (
talk) 21:57, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Great find! I'm not opposed to recreating any of these categories if and when more content is available (5ish pages).
Mason (
talk) 01:11, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Sure, everything has the potential to be populated. But I don't see a realistic potential for them happening anytime soon. I do see that some of the categories are linked to inter-language categories, but that doesn't mean the non-english language pages are going to be created anytime soon.
Mason (
talk) 21:56, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
WP:SMALLCAT doesn't say anything about time tresholds. Sooner or later it will definitely happen considering constant growth of Wikipedia. There is no reason to remove category that we all know potentially consist several notable items.
Marcelus (
talk) 21:59, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
It is true that smallcat "doesn't say anything about time tresholds", but it doesn't forbid it, either. It does say realistic. I don't think that it is realistic to assume that every article on wikipedia will be created. "we all know potentially consist several notable items" We don't know that. Further, extending your logic would result in creating family categories for every family, because there's the potential for notable items.
Mason (
talk) 21:46, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
We know it for sources obviously. Most of them were influential noble families, that had many notable representatives. I don't really see the reason for deleting them in order to just create them later. I just think it would be better if before requesting deletion you would actually examine sources and check for articles that can eventually be put in those category. Look how frutiful our discussion about Glinka family turned out to be.
Marcelus (
talk) 21:57, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
> I don't really see the reason for deleting them in order to just create them later. I
Sigh... it's pretty clear that you haven't tried to consider other people's perspectives on this.
> I just think it would be better if before requesting deletion you would actually examine sources and check for articles that can eventually be put in those category
That's an uncharitable interpretation.
> Look how frutiful our discussion about Glinka family turned out to be
I don't think our discussion was fruitful. You kept making uncharitable statements and then didn't respond to my questions asking for you to explain where you get the uncharitable interpretations.
Mason (
talk) 02:21, 16 October 2023 (UTC)reply
You are making bunch of accusations against me, for no apparent reason.
Marcelus (
talk) 08:09, 16 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge for now, without prejudice to recreate any of these categories when it can be populated a lot better.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 04:20, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support merge per nom --
Lenticel(
talk) 12:52, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Schack family
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Merge Delete per nom --
Lenticel(
talk) 12:53, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Austerlitz family
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Nominator's rationale: Small cat with only 1 person + the corresponding eponymous article about the family
Mason (
talk) 21:21, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Białłozor (Wieniawa)
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Merge per nom as alternative to deletion --
Lenticel(
talk) 12:53, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Southwest League of Professional Baseball
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Category:Explorers from the Dutch Republic
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Nominator's rationale:WP:OVERLAPCAT. The intersection of regime and explorer is not defining. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 20:51, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom.
Mason (
talk) 20:56, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge, 17th century is more specific than Dutch Republic and all three articles fit the 17th century.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:58, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Printers from the Dutch Republic
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Support per nom.
Mason (
talk) 20:56, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom --
Lenticel(
talk) 09:31, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Rulers by century
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The result of the discussion was:keep. There was less discussion on the alt merge proposal, but that is to be expected for a sub-proposal; an interested party may consider raising it as its own nomination.
(non-admin closure)HouseBlastertalk 01:16, 21 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: More precise than simply 'ruler,' which can encompass a wide range of meanings. Furthermore, this can be regarded as C2D as the primary articles are already titled
Lists of state leaders by century.
Kpratter (
talk) 15:20, 6 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Rationale: redundant category layer with only two subcategories, similar as for centuries earlier than the 6th century.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 16:38, 6 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose The term leaders can also encompass a range of meanings. Does it include senator, MPs, first ladies, advisors, statesman, etc.? How do we know when modern states began? How do we know which are state leaders and which are rulers of society before modern states? tahcchat 20:38, 7 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support the renamings, as clearer in scope. *Oppose any mergers.
Dimadick (
talk) 21:55, 7 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose since the term of 'state' carries a lot of baggage that doesn't necessarily apply to all these individuals. ― novov(tc)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Edward-Woodrow •
talk 20:06, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
mild Oppose. I think that state leader is less clear.
Mason (
talk) 21:19, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose - "state leaders" is a useless made-up term.
Head of government and
Head of state is what you want. Rulers is fine at least until about 1790.
Johnbod (
talk) 21:28, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Legendary people by ethnicity or nationality
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Nominator's rationale:split, ethnicity and nationality are quite different things, each with their own category tree. When split, re-parent to either ethnicity or nationality.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:03, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom.
Mason (
talk) 20:56, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom --
Lenticel(
talk) 09:32, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Legendary Abkhazian people
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Delete/Merge - note that
Suffolkshire does not exist, & never has. The category was set up by an American editor.
Johnbod (
talk) 21:31, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks for confirming. (As an American editor, I wasn't sure if that was a missing category or a erroneous name)
Mason (
talk) 01:05, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Family by culture
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Merge per above --
Lenticel(
talk) 00:26, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:McDell Marine
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Nominator's rationale: single category
Mason (
talk) 11:55, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom. The subcategory may be nominated for upmerge to its other parents.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:27, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge per above --
Lenticel(
talk) 00:27, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Cities destroyed during the Russian invasion of Ukraine
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Support per nom --
Lenticel(
talk) 09:32, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Superheroes by ethnicity or nationality
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Nominator's rationale:rename, considering the content, "by continent" is a more appropriate name than the current name.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:04, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support. per nom
Mason (
talk) 11:57, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom --
Lenticel(
talk) 09:43, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Fictional people by nationality
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Nominator's rationale: rename and re-parent per actual content, these are categories simply split by nationality, not by ethnicity (save one exception). When renamed, they should also be re-parented to
Category:Fictional people by nationality.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 06:39, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support. per nom
Mason (
talk) 11:56, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Support per nom --
Lenticel(
talk) 09:42, 15 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Cronstedt family residences
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The result of the discussion was:merge as proposed with no prejudice against recreation if and when they can be populated.
(non-admin closure)HouseBlastertalk 01:18, 21 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Keep The Dyre family is a centuries-old noble family which has owned at least a dozen different manors and at least a similar number of churches. There is thus a basuis for far more oages in this category.
Ramblersen2 (
talk) 09:49, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Glad to see it has two now, but until those pages exist I think the category needs to be merged
Mason (
talk) 11:58, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: over categorized. each has just one page in the category
Mason (
talk) 01:28, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge all, for now, with no prejudice to recreation of any of these categories if and when more content is available.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 11:33, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge all, for now. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 20:27, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's rationale: No need for these trees.
WP:NARROW. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 17:22, 5 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
HouseBlastertalk 00:19, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Merge/delete per nom. Ice hockey is poorly developed in many countries.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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Category:Emigrants from the Kingdom of Bavaria to the United Kingdom
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Nominator's rationale: Fails
WP:CATDEF. Signing an open letter is not a defining characteristic, compared to signers of constitutions and declarations of independence.
NoonIcarus (
talk) 00:09, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. This typically calls for a list, and the list is already there in the main article.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:16, 13 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom.
Mason (
talk) 01:09, 14 October 2023 (UTC)reply
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