- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 04:48, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: We don't categorize short stories through the year of setting. We don't even do it for novels. There aren't that many notable short stories so this is bound to be a
WP:SMALLCAT.
Pichpich (
talk)
23:29, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- If deleted, recategorize in
Category:Fiction set in 1922.
Gonnym (
talk)
10:54, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
- I do not agree. This tree should be used for fiction that is set in a clearly different time than when it was written. Marcocapelle ( talk) 11:35, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
- If deleted, recategorize in
Category:Fiction set in 1922.
Gonnym (
talk)
10:54, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. This happens to be a very trivial case: published in 1923, set in 1922. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:02, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:NARROWCAT. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 18:38, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
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Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 27#Category:Four Digit Wings of the United States Air Force
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. This is the only logical outcome now that WP:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_16#Emigrants_from_Ireland_(1801-1923) has closed as merge. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 04:52, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: A wholly un-needed chronological division of
Category:Irish people. All the contents are already adequately categorised, so no need to merge.
See also the related discussion at WP:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_16#Emigrants_from_Ireland_(1801-1923). BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 22:03, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Support, they are already in 19th- and 20th-century categories. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:05, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose - this depends on the outcome of the linked discussion.
Oculi (
talk)
23:20, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- It now has the subcat
Category:Members of the Parliament of the United Kingdom for Irish constituencies (1801–1922), which would not otherwise be adequately categorised.
Oculi (
talk)
12:45, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
- Utter nonsense. They were perfectly well categorised before. There is absolutely no benefit in chopping up the whole of : Category:Irish people just because of the life of a Parliament, whose members are already well-categorised. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 14:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- It now has the subcat
Category:Members of the Parliament of the United Kingdom for Irish constituencies (1801–1922), which would not otherwise be adequately categorised.
Oculi (
talk)
12:45, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose - this depends on the outcome of the linked discussion. Part of a wider scheme -
Category:Irish people by period. See also the Polish precedent -
Category:Polish people by period. It has 3 separate categories for 3 different regimes of the twentieth century; by the nom logic advanced above, you'd be obliged to say "Sure they're all just 20th century Polish people".
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
08:09, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
- A daft comparison. "Irish people" has had the same scope for centuries, and it is ridiculous to chop it up.
- The comparison with Poland is absurd: Poland did not exist as a nation from 1795 to 1918, or 1939-45, and post-1945 Poland had radically different boundaries to the the 1918-39 incarnation. None of that applies to "Irish people", and the 1922 creation of Northern Ireland is handled by the simple, stable solution of having Category:People from Northern Ireland as a subcat of both Category:Irish people and Category:British people. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 14:50, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- Tell that to the Poles. Their states may have evolved / dissolved over the centuries, but there were always a Polish nation. Didn't you write elsewhere that Irish people were Irish in 1799 and in 1802? Laurel Lodged ( talk) 16:54, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- Support - should be grouped by century not by period in the UK. Spleodrach ( talk) 15:50, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- Why not group by both? They're complimentary. Plus the periods don't neatly overlap at the end. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 16:56, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- Update The discussion at WP:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_16#Emigrants_from_Ireland_(1801-1923) ended in a merger. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 00:19, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
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Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 27#Category:Voodoo texts
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- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 04:53, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Duplicate of Category:Intellectual competitions, and a WP:SMALLCAT as only 1 entry (and that entry is invalid, as the article is for a person, not a competition). If kept, should be renamed to the proper capitalisation Category:International academic competitions Joseph 2302 ( talk) 17:02, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete as empty (discounting the article that does not belong here). Marcocapelle ( talk) 18:01, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
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Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 28#Category:Association football people by prefecture in Japan
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 04:54, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Very clearly not a defining feature of any people.
Di (they-them) (
talk)
16:02, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - I am pretty sure this got deleted at some point in the past as well. (Oinkers42) ( talk) 16:05, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete, for two articles it seems to be a defining characteristic, but two is not enough. Besides the context is very different. Marcocapelle ( talk) 18:12, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Bare feet are a part of these people's image in public consciousness, and there are RS to document it (say, Socrates is often referred to in books as "the barefoot philosopher", and Cesaria Evora was nicknamed "the Barefoot Diva"). -- GLTPRE ( talk) 19:02, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete I can't imagine the reader who would want an easy navigational pathway between Johnny Appleseed, Socrates, and Yardena Arazi. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 00:48, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- Listify. This lends itself better for a list than for a category. gidonb ( talk) 01:29, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. Yardena Arazi was also known to perform and be depicted barefoot. It's a big theme in her Hewiki entry. Her first single translates to barefoot girl. gidonb ( talk) 01:32, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete How do you define someone for this category? Barefoot when performing (if a performer), barefoot on certain occasions? LibStar ( talk) 01:35, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- delete I saw Iona Brown performing barefoot at the Kennedy Center; does she count? Sorry, this comes of as a trivial association. Mangoe ( talk) 03:59, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. Aside from the redundancy to Category:Films about summer camps, there was also a claim that it was less defining. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 04:55, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Redundant with the existence of Category:Films about summer camps. (Oinkers42) ( talk) 15:35, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom, but it would be good to check if some articles can be moved to Category:Films about summer camps before Category:Films set in summer camps gets deleted. Marcocapelle ( talk) 18:15, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: This is a tough one for me. Is a summer camp a geographical location, so it should be categorized similarly to Category:Films set in San Francisco, or is it a subject matter, so it should be categorized similarly to Category:Films about camping? DonIago ( talk) 21:25, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- comment This actually seems to be "films with summer camp scenes", as lots of the entries are mostly set in other locations as well. Mangoe ( talk) 03:04, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- That is also a relevant reason for deletion. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:15, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
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- The result of the discussion was: Delete This has been relisted twice, and no actual opposition to deletion has been provided in over a month ( non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 19:23, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Should follow the wider category tree of Category:Sportspeople by country of descent, which has many subcategories of sportspeople by nationality and country of descent (but does not split by specific sport). S.A. Julio ( talk) 10:24, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. S.A. Julio ( talk) 10:25, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- Question, is this about descent (i.e. did ancestors have Albanian nationality) or is it about ethnicity (i.e. the Albanian-speaking people who always have lived in what now constitutes North Macedonia)? Most articles are utterly vague about it and some articles do not mention an Albanian connection at all. Marcocapelle ( talk) 14:58, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- In fact, I am opposing this rename until this is clarified. See also Albanians in North Macedonia and Category:Albanians in North Macedonia. Marcocapelle ( talk) 08:04, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename and expand as per nom. Too narrow as it stands. Giant Snowman 18:17, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose -- There are a lot of Albanians outside Albania, for example Mother Theresa, who was from Kosovo. Nom is trying to make this an expatriate descent category, but it is probably not. This is a common issue with ethnicities within the area of the former Ottoman Empire. Peterkingiron ( talk) 15:56, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 01:56, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per
WP:OCEGRS:
people should only be categorized by ethnicity or religion if this has significant bearing on their career.
See also my Bruno Akrapović example at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 May 21#Category:Croat sportspeople from Bosnia and Herzegovina. He's not mentioned as a "Croat" anywhere, and is a very international person. We can't automatically assume ethnicity to be relevant for a footballer. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 22:58, 30 May 2023 (UTC) - Delete per Nl Leeuw. Technically
Category:Macedonian sportspeople of Albanian descent may still be created afterwards for Macedonian footballers with parents who clearly migrated from Albania, but I do not expect this to happen.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
05:27, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- Me neither. I suspect 'Albanian' here refers to citizens of North Macedonia whose native language is Albanian (c. 25% of the population), not whose parents were born in the country of Albania. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 18:50, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:34, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
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- The result of the discussion was: rename to
Category:Musical theatre television specials. –
Fayenatic
London
08:05, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Musical television specials to Category:Music television specials (or renaming to something more disambiguated)
- Nominator's rationale: These were originally separated with the rationale of a distinction between television specials that were staged broadcasts of theatrical musicals and television specials that were not, but based on the contents of the categories that's not what's actually happening. Instead, "musical" actually contains numerous entries that would belong in "music" rather than "musical" by that yardstick (such as Céline Dion and Liza Minnelli concerts). So even if separate categories are warranted here, the theatrical one would need to be purged of inappropriate entries and renamed for clarity — but as it stands, the names of these two categories aren't communicating a very clear distinction to begin with, and it's at best debatable whether the category system really needs to maintain the distinction at all. Bearcat ( talk) 22:56, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- Suggestion, rename to Category:Musicals on television and reverse the hierarchical relationship with Category:Musical television series. This way the content can be kept in the musicals tree. And, of course, move articles to Category:Music television specials when appropriate. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:56, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 01:59, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:32, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- comment These two categories seem to be made up of (by my reckoning) at least four different kinds of things, of which two are clearly TV stagings of musicals per se, and broadcast concerts. After that it gets murkier, as there are at least a couple of different things which aren't either of these two (e.g., Amahl and the Night Visitors is a made-for-TV opera, and there appear to be a number of variety shows in the list). I'm betting there are others (what's with the Peanuts special?). I'm having a hard time even coming up with an overarching category that describes all these things. Mangoe ( talk) 03:17, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- The latter is not reasonable. My earlier suggestion is to keep only the first kind of thing (musicals on TV) and move the remainder to Category:Music television specials as proposed by nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:20, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - The problem is that while the word Musical (especially when capitalised) is often a shorthand for saying Musical theatre production, it's not always clear that that is the meaning, especially when "Musical" is used as the first word of a sentence or title. I see Musical film, but I do not see Musical television. Which I suppose makes sense. I am very tempted to suggest that perhaps we may need to rename the tree of Category:Musicals. It is a subcat of Category:Musical theatre, and so should probably be renamed to Category:Musical theatre works, per WP:PRECISION. Noting too that the article is Musical theatre. - jc37 12:05, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - My above comments aside, if we just want to look at the tree of Category:Television musicals, and what I "think" the intended content is/was supposed to be, then I think the path forward is to Split Category:Musical television specials to Category:Musical theatre television specials and Category:Music television specials. - jc37 12:05, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Rename per Marcocapelle and jc37, and purge articles that don't fit to
Category:Music television specials (i.e. split between target and
Category:Music television specials).
Slight preferencce for jc37's target over Marcocapelle's. — Qwerfjkl talk 16:51, 5 July 2023 (UTC) - Oppose merge. Support renaming to Category:Musical theatre television specials per Jc37. 4meter4 ( talk) 01:24, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
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Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 28#Category:LeAnn Rimes
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- The result of the discussion was: no consensus.
(non-admin closure)
Qwerfjkl
talk
16:58, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Tsardom of Russia nuns to Category:Russian nuns
- Nominator's rationale: AFAIK, we don't have any categories "by country" for nuns. We only have "by nationality" categories for nuns. The Tsardom / Empire is the exception.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
08:35, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- @ Laurel Lodged we do, see Category:Kievan Rus' nuns (currently in CfR). Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 07:37, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 09:26, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Tsardom of Russia =/= Russian Federation. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 07:54, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 02:06, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- The tsardom isn't the federation, but Russian people were living in the tsardom as well as in the federation. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:54, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
-
Comment: I think that we need to first resolve the "by country" versus "by nationality" question posed by nom. Nom and I discussed this at a bit more length in the related CfM on
Category:Nuns from the Russian Empire. TL;DR: The
Category:People by country tree refers to country of residence, but at various points along this tree it has been inappropriately mixed up with the
Category:People by nationality tree. If we don't fix this problem first by clarifying that "by country" means "by country of residence", this problem will persist across English Wikipedia and make nominations like this difficult to decide on. Cheers,
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
07:22, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:27, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- As mentioned in another discussion, "by nationality" also includes by country of residence. We cannot check people's passports and the concept of a passport is fairly new anyway. I am not convinced that we should solve this ambiguity, it is just something to keep into account.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
18:26, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- No, there was no consensus in the Category:People by country CfR on what that category tree actually means. We are still figuring that out.
- One thing I did manage to establish was that Category:Dutch political prisoners should be Renamed Category:Political prisoners in the Netherlands; and it was. Because we're not so much interested in the nationality of the prisoners, but in the country they are being detained in.
- So now I CfR'd the whole Category:Political prisoners by country to Category:Political prisoners by country of detention. We might say it's a form of "people by country of temporary residence"; they "live" in a prison located in that country (whether coinciding with the country of their nationality or not) until the detention expires (or they die, or they are pardoned, or they escape etc.). Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 06:36, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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- The result of the discussion was: rename/manual upmerge.
(non-admin closure)
Qwerfjkl
talk
17:00, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming
Category:Greek chronicles to
Category:Chronicles about Greece
- Re-parent from Category:Greek literature (by country) to Category:History books about Greece (by topic) and Category:Chronicles by topic
- Propose renaming
Category:Byzantine chronicles to
Category:Chronicles about the Byzantine Empire
- Re-parent from Category:Byzantine literature (by country) to History books about the Byzantine Empire (by topic) and Category:Chronicles by topic
- Propose renaming
Category:Greek chronicles to
Category:Chronicles about Greece
- Nominator's rationale: Category tree has been reorganised by language and by topic, see
Category talk:Greek chronicles#Categorisation by language and topic for the full background, explanation and process. See also other current CfRs concerning renaming Fooian chronicles to Chronicles about Fooland.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
11:58, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- PS: We could theoretically create an additional Category:Greek-language chronicles about Greece, by which "Greece" means the territory of the modern Hellenic Republic (excluding "Ancient Greek" and "Byzantine" areas in Asia Minor, southern Italy etc.). This would include the following 6 items: Leipziger Weltchronik (founding of Thebes), Lindos Chronicle (local history of Lindos on Rhodes), Chronicle of Monemvasia (purported history of early medieval mainland Greece), Chronicle of Ioannina (local history of Ioannina, Epirus), Chronicle of the Tocco ( Tocco family history of Epirus), and Chronicle of Galaxeidi (local history of Galaxidi, Phocis). But I'm worried that this category may be misunderstood or abused by people who interpret "Greece" more broadly than that, or that extending "Greece" before the 19th century may lead to accusations of WP:OR. So I haven't created it yet, and maybe we shouldn't. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 12:23, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support Byzantine per nom, manually merge Greek (excluding subcat) to parent categories per
WP:SMALLCAT.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
05:40, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- I'm open to this solution, especially if we decide that creating Category:Greek-language chronicles about Greece (which would be one of its two children) is a bad option for the reasons I have given. SMALLCAT is a relevant point here. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 07:20, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:24, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
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Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 5#Category:Chechen-speaking countries and territories
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 5#Category:Hindi-speaking countries and territories
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: split. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 17:16, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: While there are some TV series in the category, there are also episodes of shows and TV specials. New name would more accurately represent categories scope.
JDDJS (
talk to me •
see what I've done)
16:05, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Appears to be following
Category:Parody television series' name scheme, as opposed to
Category:Parody television episodes'. Perhaps a split would be more helpful.
QuietHere (
talk |
contributions)
16:38, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- There would only be like 4 articles in the category if we split. JDDJS ( talk to me • see what I've done) 20:05, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Appears to be following
Category:Parody television series' name scheme, as opposed to
Category:Parody television episodes'. Perhaps a split would be more helpful.
QuietHere (
talk |
contributions)
16:38, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- With 4 articles about series and 8 about episodes, there is enough to split. – Fayenatic London 12:56, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
- Split to Category:Parody television series based on Star Wars and Category:Parody television episodes based on Star Wars per Fayenatic london. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 04:13, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:18, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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- The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 17:29, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:C2C parent
Category:Countries and territories by official language, and per category description
This category lists countries and territories where Swedish is used as an official language.
Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 16:26, 28 May 2023 (UTC)- It looks that two out of five entries don't fit with is and probably don't fit with official either.
Kaffet i halsen (
talk)
16:56, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The historical
Grand Duchy of Finland and
Estonia under Swedish rule? Perhaps is is not grammatically correct. However, I checked at least the official status of the former, and German Wikipedia has an officially designated "excellent article" (Exzellente Artikel) on it:
de:Großfürstentum Finnland. It says
Das Schwedische bewahrte sich seine Position als Amts- und Verwaltungssprache auch unter der russischen Krone.
("Swedish also kept its position as language of administration and government under the Russian crown"). It continues saying that Finnish was recognised as an equal language of administration in 1902, and Russification efforts which began in 1900 were abandoned in 1906. About Estonia I'd have to check. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 18:19, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The historical
Grand Duchy of Finland and
Estonia under Swedish rule? Perhaps is is not grammatically correct. However, I checked at least the official status of the former, and German Wikipedia has an officially designated "excellent article" (Exzellente Artikel) on it:
de:Großfürstentum Finnland. It says
- It looks that two out of five entries don't fit with is and probably don't fit with official either.
Kaffet i halsen (
talk)
16:56, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- It is an odd category with both Finland and its predecessor in it, with Finnish islands rather being defined by the fact that Finnish is not an official language, and anything under Swedish rule for which it is trivial that Swedish was the official language. I'd say just Sweden and Finland would suffice, but then smallcat would become an issue.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
20:49, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Well history has a way of surprising us every day. ;) The Swedish-language impact on the history of Finland is huge. We may find that odd today, because of the
Languages of Finland,
Swedish [was] the main language of 5.2% of the population in 2020, (92.4% in the Åland autonomous province),
those "Finnish islands". But it isdown from 14% at the beginning of the 20th century (...). Swedish was the language of the administration until the late 19th century.
- You and Kaffet i halsen have a point that including former countries and territories may be a bit odd because of the word is, or because it may not be clear what the value is of categorising former countries and territories by official language. I must admit I hadn't really considered the implications of that yet until today. But official languages are a relatively modern phenomenon (just like state religions), and they should be verifiable aspects of former states.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
21:12, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- @
Nederlandse Leeuw: I do have a problem with the word "is" per se. The point of these categories is to understand the spread of a language outside its home country. Inclusion of former countries in the same territory may technically satisfy the category title, but it is totally irrelevant from a demographic / linguistic point of view.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:56, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- @ Marcocapelle The point of these categories is to understand the spread of a language outside its home country. Is it? I don't think so; we've got Category:Geographical distribution of languages for that. This CfR is about law. Namely, the legal status of a particular language in a particular jurisdiction ("countries and territories"). It is not about how many people speak it, or where, or what the supposed "home country of a language" (if such a thing does even exist) is. The point of renaming its parent Category:Countries and territories by language to Category:Countries and territories by official language was to eliminate the arbitrary/subjective WP:CROSSCATegorisation between demographics and law.
- ...totally irrelevant from a demographic / linguistic point of view. Yes, but
linguistics and
demographics are irrelevant when it comes to law. This CfR is about law. Cheers,
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
07:17, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Ok, that is interesting, I was not aware of (or had forgotten about) this tree. This seems the more relevant tree; law is a mere trivial aspect of this topic which is primarily about demographics and language. By the way, would you also add all "Colonial" articles to these legal categories? For your own consistency you probably should, but it seems rather absurd to me.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
08:14, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- @ Marcocapelle ( Category:Geographical distribution of languages) seems the more relevant tree; (it) is primarily about demographics and language. Why do you think so?
- law is a mere trivial aspect of this topic Well, its parent is Category:Countries and territories by official language.
- would you also add all "Colonial" articles to these legal categories? If we were to accept former jurisdictions ("countries and territories") which had official languages to this tree, then yes. But as a community, we haven't yet formally made that decision. It's only items in some categories such as Grand Duchy of Finland in this one, or Qara Khitai in Category:Persian-speaking countries and territories, where certain former jurisdictions were already categorised by (official?) language. This was before the parent Category:Countries and territories by official language was renamed, and I started CfRing its children for renaming to Countries and territories where Fooian is an official language per WP:C2C. I didn't consider former jurisdictions at the time, I just wasn't aware of the potential grammatical or historical vs present issues that might result in. I do, however, think that former jurisdictions are legitimate items for these categories. I actually populated Category:Ukrainian-speaking countries and territories with former jurisdictions in order to save it from deletion per WP:SMALLCAT, but you have voiced similar concerns/objections there. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 08:33, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Ok, that is interesting, I was not aware of (or had forgotten about) this tree. This seems the more relevant tree; law is a mere trivial aspect of this topic which is primarily about demographics and language. By the way, would you also add all "Colonial" articles to these legal categories? For your own consistency you probably should, but it seems rather absurd to me.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
08:14, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- @
Nederlandse Leeuw: I do have a problem with the word "is" per se. The point of these categories is to understand the spread of a language outside its home country. Inclusion of former countries in the same territory may technically satisfy the category title, but it is totally irrelevant from a demographic / linguistic point of view.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:56, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Well history has a way of surprising us every day. ;) The Swedish-language impact on the history of Finland is huge. We may find that odd today, because of the
Languages of Finland,
- Comment: Added
List of municipalities of Finland in which Finnish is not the sole official language to the category.
Kaffet i halsen (
talk)
11:17, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- That was a good idea, thanks! Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 11:38, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
- Update siblings about Azerbaijani, Hungarian, Somali, and Tamil have recently been renamed to ...where Fooian is an official language for the same or similar reasons as in the rationale. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 15:10, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:16, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Rename and Purge This is much less subjective and more defining. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 01:02, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge. Next time, please use
WP:C2F.
(non-admin closure) –
LaundryPizza03 (
d
c̄)
04:56, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:RUSNANO to Category:Nanotechnology companies of Russia
- Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 ( talk) 15:15, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 18:33, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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- The result of the discussion was: merge to
Category:Former populated places in Turkey. –
Fayenatic
London
13:32, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:Unpopulated villages in Turkey to Category:Depopulated villages in Turkey
- Nominator's rationale: More accurate as the populations were forcibly removed. "Unpopulated" is a more vague term here. Semsûrî ( talk) 10:12, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment, it is not always clear from the article text if the village was forcibly depopulated.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
21:14, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- You're right. Three of the entries (out of seven) now lack the explicitness. I'll continue to look for more explicit mentions for the rest of them. Semsûrî ( talk) 16:01, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
- Would renaming to
Category:Ghost towns in Turkey be appropriate here? This is a bit of an odd category. Leaning towards deleting rather than the nominated rename. –
Aidan721 (
talk)
16:31, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
- Hmm, maybe the category can be deleted. I just thought it would have been great to have all the unpopulated villages categorized but oh well.
Semsûrî (
talk)
10:55, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
- I'm leaning to delete too. Marcocapelle ( talk) 20:47, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
- Hmm, maybe the category can be deleted. I just thought it would have been great to have all the unpopulated villages categorized but oh well.
Semsûrî (
talk)
10:55, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename as nom. Those I sampled had been depopulated during Turkish/Kurdish conflicts. "Village" sounds right, but they might be included in a ghost towns tree. Peterkingiron ( talk) 18:07, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename to
Category:Ghost towns in Turkey, solely for consistency without regards to whether they were forcibly evicted by
population transfer or otherwise. –
LaundryPizza03 (
d
c̄)
20:31, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
- But all of these are villages and not towns? Semsûrî ( talk) 12:05, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/ STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 16:29, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Alt Rename to Category:Ghost towns in Turkey per LaundryPizza03 and established parent Category:Ghost towns by country, or Merge to Category:Former populated places in Turkey per established parent Category:Former populated places by country.
- Although there is no parent like Category:Depopulated villages by country, there is a great number of singular "depopulated villages" categories for – you guessed it – very controversial conflict-related topics. Some examples:
- Category:Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War
- Category:Jewish villages depopulated during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War
- Category:Arab villages depopulated prior to the 1948 Arab–Israeli War
- Category:Greek Cypriot villages depopulated during the 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus
- Category:Turkish Cypriot villages depopulated after the 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus
- Category:Villages depopulated during the 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus
- Category:Villages depopulated during the Arab–Israeli conflict
- Category:Arab villages depopulated after the 1948 Arab–Israeli War
- Category:Jewish villages depopulated during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war
- Category:Lists of depopulated towns and villages of subdistricts of Mandatory Palestine
- Obviously, such categorisations are implicit/explicit accusations of war crimes / crimes against humanity by some other state or non-state actor. I would generally be in favour of Listify to allow WP:RS to be added for WP:V. We can't have baseless accusations of serious crimes without evidence. If, as it seems, these villages were "depopulated" during Turkish/Kurdish conflicts as Peterkingiron says, we need evidence, and Listify is the best option. Otherwise, I suggest we do not use the term "depopulated" here.
- The only one which doesn't appear to be controversial is Category:Villages in Norway (depopulated). This one might as well be called "Abandoned villages in Norway". Its parent is Category:Former populated places in Norway, which is part of the Category:Former populated places by country. Not sure what the difference is between "ghost towns" and "former populated places", except that the last one doesn't have to be a "town", thus satisfying Semsûrî's objection against "ghost towns". Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 17:52, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:13, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Merge to Category:Former populated places in Turkey per Nederlandse Leeuw. — Qwerfjkl talk 17:32, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- In agreement with Merge to Category:Former populated places in Turkey. My feeling is that 'ghost town' is kind of an Americanism (I could be wrong, but that's my feeling) and carries with it a certain connotation related to the American Old West. The 'former populated places' is by no means a perfect category as it makes no distinction between modern and ancient times; for instance, certainly Antioch is a formerly populated place, but it also has some current population related to the archeological activities going on there, albeit not likely a transient population and not "incorporated", but can we say that ancient cities were "incorporated" in the modern sense - I don't think so, myself. Regards --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 01:53, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 17:34, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Per WP:C2D main article List of countries and territories where Persian is an official language, and per WP:C2C parent Category:Countries and territories by official language. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 16:54, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete, outside Iran there is currently only Bahrein with a sizeable Persian-speaking minority (btw not an official language in Bahrein).
Marcocapelle (
talk)
19:30, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- That is not the question. The question is which countries and territories have Persian as an official language. In Afghanistan they call it Dari, but it is a variety of Persian. In Tajikistan they call it Tajik, but it is a variety of Persian. In Dagestan they call it Tat language (Caucasus), but it is a variety of Persian. That already makes 4, as mentioned in List of countries and territories where Persian is an official language. (The "Significant minority language" section should be removed btw because it is out of scope). So it can't be deleted as a SMALLCAT. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 20:58, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Update siblings about Azerbaijani, Hungarian, Somali, and Tamil have recently been renamed to ...where Fooian is an official language for the same or similar reasons as in the rationale. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 15:12, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:05, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Rename This is much less subjective and therefore more defining. Purge if needed. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 01:05, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename to
Category:Family trees of royalty and purge.
(non-admin closure)
Qwerfjkl
talk
11:23, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:Dynasty genealogy to Category:Family trees of royalty and nobility
- Nominator's rationale: "Dynasty genealogy" is not a term I have ever heard before, and it seems to not really reflect a lot of the articles and templates collected in it. ★Trekker ( talk) 12:56, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
Renameper nom: Awkward phrasing which doesn't do a great job clearly explaining the category at first glance (it's not even plural!) QuietHere ( talk | contributions) 14:58, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
- Changing vote to rename to Category:Noble family trees per Nederlandse Leeuw below. QuietHere ( talk | contributions) 03:38, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
- Alternative: rename to
Category:Family trees of royalty and move everything not about royalty to
Category:Family trees. This way the category can clearly be put in the royalty tree.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
16:36, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
- This seems smarter honestly. ★Trekker ( talk) 10:20, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- Alternative 2: Please, let's rename this to Category:Noble family trees to avoid all the problems we've had with the words "royalty" and "royal" in numerous other categories.
- Precedents: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2022_January_2#Ruling_families_of_counties_and_duchies and Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_April_22#Category:Nobles_of_Kievan_Rus.
- Ongoing: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_May_14#Category:Princes_in_Rus'.
- At
User:Nederlandse Leeuw/People from Kievan Rus' category tree#Rationale, I've explained further problems. Excerpt: I have come to the conclusion that the terms "royalty" and "royal houses" are pretty useless for categorisation. (...) "
royalty" refers only to the reigning king/queen (or higher: emperor/empress, tsar/tsarina etc.) and their immediate family:
the immediate family of a king or queen regnant, and sometimes his or her extended family
. Once the reigning monarch dies and the next monarch accedes, this may completely change who is now "royalty", just like the order of succession may change suddenly when a royal (including the monarch himself/herself) dies. Moreover, it's always possible for a dynasty to fall by being overthrown (during wars of succession or princely rebellions) by another noble family, whose core members then suddenly become "royalty" at the expense of the immediate family of the overthrown/previous monarch. That they are all nobility, however, is something that never changes until modern times when royalty and nobility are abolished. (...) Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 19:01, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
- rename to Category:Family trees of royalty and purge of any who are not royal (or imperial). People appear in these because of relationship to a monarch. We may need a "noble family trees" category, but we would need one for each country. In UK, there is a list article for each peerage, so that there is usually no family tree article as such, so that "noble family trees of UK" would probably be unnecessary. Peterkingiron ( talk) 15:30, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 22:22, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- In practice I am not seeing problems with "royalty", but I am also fine with splitting the category between Category:Noble family trees as a subcategory of Category:Family trees, and Category:Family trees of royalty as a subcategory of the previous. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:51, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 14:58, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Rename to Category:Family trees of royalty and purge of any who are not royal (or imperial), per others above. No idea if we need (or should have) Category:Family trees of nobility, so I'm neutral on whether that should be created as a split target. (However, I do oppose usage of the wording of Category:Noble family trees.) - jc37 12:52, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Manuscripts by area
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:European chronicles
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename.
(non-admin closure) –
LaundryPizza03 (
d
c̄)
04:56, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:Úrvalsdeild kvenna (football) to Category:Besta deild kvenna
- Propose renaming Category:Úrvalsdeild kvenna (football) players to Category:Besta deild kvenna players
- Propose merging Category:Úrvalsdeild Women into Category:Besta deild kvenna
- Propose renaming Category:Úrvalsdeild Women clubs to Category:Besta deild kvenna clubs
- Nominator's rationale: The league and its main article were renamed from " Úrvalsdeild kvenna (football)" to " Besta deild kvenna" in 2022. Categories should align accordingly. Additionally, Category:Úrvalsdeild Women duplicates Category:Úrvalsdeild kvenna (football) and should also be merged into the new category; its only contents are the same main article and Category:Úrvalsdeild Women clubs. - Socccc ( talk) 13:14, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: I intentionally did not nominate Category:Úrvalsdeild kvenna (football) players by team as it is separately up for CfD. If it is kept rather than deleted, it should be added to this request to rename it accordingly. - Socccc ( talk) 13:20, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Move all clear case of WP:C2D, they could be speedy moved. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 08:04, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 18:15, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- Speedy rename per Joseph. Giant Snowman 18:16, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Places of local interest needing cleanup
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Novels set in fictional villages
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Two-time VFL/AFL Premiership players
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename.
(non-admin closure)
Qwerfjkl
talk
14:11, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:21st-century viceregal rulers to Category:21st-century viceroys
- Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C Category:Viceroys. "Rulers" seems to have no added meaning or value here. It's almost never used in modern literature. The point seems to be that their title wasn't necessarily "viceroy", but so what? The category is about functions, not titles.
- I don't think upmerging per WP:SMALLCAT is necessary because it can be populated with, say, lots of items in Category:Viceroys in Australia. There is clear potential for growth, and this century is far from over. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 21:54, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename per nom, or rename to
Category:21st-century gouvernors-general because I think the term "viceroy" is no longer used. The only article in this category should be purged however:
Albert II, Prince of Monaco was very briefly
regent before he became monarch, not vice-roy. It is barely defining for him either.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
05:21, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- It is still used for Canada, Australia, New Zealand and a couple of other countries, although it is true that most or all of these seem to have switched to "Governor-General" or "Governor" in practice. I noticed that when I was creating and populating the Category:Viceregal consorts category. There is a Category:Canadian viceregal consorts, but for Australia and NZ they prefer "Spouses of Fooian Governors(-General)", e.g. Category:Spouses of New South Wales Governors. It seems that 'viceroy' is used more between this person and the British monarch, while 'governor(-general)' is used more between this person and the people they govern over, but I'd have to check that. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 06:34, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- By the way, there is a whole series of viceregal rulers by century.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
16:15, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- I know. I'm using this as a test case. Starting with a simple question to set a precedent, and then address a more complex one next instead of nominating 20 categories and getting a confused discussion. ;) Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 21:26, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose The category is part of an entire series of categories about
regents.
Dimadick (
talk)
08:35, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Are you sure? Regents are a different function; this category isn't in the
Category:Regents tree.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
21:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Perhaps you mean Category:20th-century regents of Greece and Category:19th-century regents of Greece? They seem to be miscategorised. "Regents" and "viceroys" are two different things. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 23:22, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- They are categories that I have been using frequently for years, and trying to expand when I can. They all include the same standardised template message: "This category is for any senior officials that act in the name of and as a representative of a monarch. Their function may be largely or wholly ceremonial and they may not be titled viceroy, but regent, governor-general, governor, lord lieutenant, etc." Most of the people included were regents, not viceroys. Some of these categories have been around since 2009, and have always focused on regents.
Dimadick (
talk)
00:02, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Okay, thanks for explaining, but I'm afraid that this definition/scope is not supported by
WP:RS.
Google Books shows it is extremely rare, only has passing mentions and all of them are at least 40 years old (
WP:AGEMATTERS; the category in question is about "viceregal rulers" in the 21st century, but no book has used that term since 1983). From what I can tell, half of them refer to Spanish colonial viceroys in the Americas, the other half refers in British or Sasanian viceroys in India or Persia. I do not see any "regents" here. Nor do I see anything which supports such a broad and vague definition such as "any senior officials that act in the name of and as a representative of a monarch." How is that not
WP:OR?
How is it "vandalism" for Marcocapelle to take this category out of "Regents" and "Governors-general"? How is the rest of your argument different from
WP:MERCY/
WP:ITEXISTS ("I've put a lot of work in it, and it has existed for a long time")? I understand that if I were in your position, I wouldn't like it either, and be disappointed, but I would eventually agree that this category tree doesn't seem to hold up under scrutiny. Cheers,
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
06:43, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- The whole tree should be split between
regents on the one hand and
governors or
viceroys on the other hand. They are completely different things.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
07:42, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Well said. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 21:00, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- The whole tree should be split between
regents on the one hand and
governors or
viceroys on the other hand. They are completely different things.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
07:42, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Okay, thanks for explaining, but I'm afraid that this definition/scope is not supported by
WP:RS.
Google Books shows it is extremely rare, only has passing mentions and all of them are at least 40 years old (
WP:AGEMATTERS; the category in question is about "viceregal rulers" in the 21st century, but no book has used that term since 1983). From what I can tell, half of them refer to Spanish colonial viceroys in the Americas, the other half refers in British or Sasanian viceroys in India or Persia. I do not see any "regents" here. Nor do I see anything which supports such a broad and vague definition such as "any senior officials that act in the name of and as a representative of a monarch." How is that not
WP:OR?
How is it "vandalism" for Marcocapelle to take this category out of "Regents" and "Governors-general"? How is the rest of your argument different from
WP:MERCY/
WP:ITEXISTS ("I've put a lot of work in it, and it has existed for a long time")? I understand that if I were in your position, I wouldn't like it either, and be disappointed, but I would eventually agree that this category tree doesn't seem to hold up under scrutiny. Cheers,
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
06:43, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Are you sure? Regents are a different function; this category isn't in the
Category:Regents tree.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
21:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Split -- Regents (who deputise for a king during incapacity) should not be in this category at all. I would prefer the tree to be something like "governor-general" or "governors" reflecting the actual titles. The former are the monarch's representative in dominions. Under them are provincial governors for (I think) Canadian and Australian provinces. For earlier periods, UK only used viceroy for India; also Lord Lieutenant for Ireland. Governors could also cover colonial governors. I think the Spanish had viceroys in New Spain. Peterkingiron ( talk) 20:25, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- @
Dimadick,
Nederlandse Leeuw, and
Peterkingiron: meanwhile most of the century categories seem to contain regents only, most governors have apparently been purged. So shall we rename this category now to
Category:21st-century regents and remove
Category:Governors and
Category:Viceroys as parent categories?
Marcocapelle (
talk)
18:47, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
- Agree for now. I expect all the 20th- and 21st-century rulers categories to be deleted anyway per the 2010 precedent, but we'll see. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 18:53, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:33, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: Rename to
Category:12 Metre class sailing competitions,
Category:420 (dinghy) class sailing competitions etc. –
Fayenatic
London 11:14, 29 June 2023 (UTC) –
Fayenatic
London
11:14, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:12 Metre competitions to Category:12 Metre class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:420 (dinghy) competitions to Category:420 class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:470 competitions to Category:470 class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:49er competitions to Category:49er class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:49er FX competitions to Category:49er FX class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:6 Metre competitions to Category:6 Metre class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Byte CII competitions to Category:Byte CII class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Cadet competitions to Category:Cadet class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Class40 competitions to Category:Class40 class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Dragon (keelboat) competitions to Category:Dragon class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Europe (dinghy) competitions to Category:Europe class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Finn competitions to Category:Finn class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:GC32 competitions to Category:GC32 class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Hobie 16 competitions to Category:Hobie 16 class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:IMOCA 60 competitions to Category:IMOCA 60 class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:J/24 competitions to Category:J/24 class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Laser (dinghy) competitions to Category:Laser class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Lightning (dinghy) competitions to Category:Lightning class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Mistral One Design competitions to Category:Mistral One Design class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Nacra 17 competitions to Category:Nacra 17 class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Optimist competitions to Category:Optimist class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:RS:X competitions to Category:RS:X class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Snipe competitions to Category:Snipe class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Soling competitions to Category:Soling class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Star (keelboat) competitions to Category:Star class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Sunfish competitions to Category:Sunfish class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Techno 293 competitions to Category:Techno 293 class competitions
- Nominator's rationale: Other categories related to Sailing by class ( Category:Sailors (sport) by class, Category:Olympic sailors by class, and Category:World champions in sailing by class) follows the proposed scheme. Kaffet i halsen ( talk) 11:35, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 03:37, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- We do not necessarily need to follow the same scheme for competitions as we have for people. It depends on common language. Marcocapelle ( talk) 04:54, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- I've now tried to look at the use outside Wikipedia but there is no tendency to support either (Boat) competitions or (Boat) class competitions. On Wikipedia it is a strong preference towards using (Boat) class, e.g. 470 class when talking about competitive sailing. Kaffet i halsen ( talk) 10:31, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose removal of dabs, per eg Lightning (dinghy), Category:Lightning (dinghy) (this is contrary to WP:C2C). There may be others that should have dabs; some look very ambiguous ( Category:Cadet (dinghy), as I thought; see Category:Sailing by class for more). Oculi ( talk) 12:56, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - first, I agree with User:Oculi, that we should not be removing the parenthetical dabs. As for adding "class" to all of these, I'm not sure. Category:Sailing by class, and its subcat Category:Sailing competitions by class both exist. But when I look at Sailing_(sport)#Handicap_racing, I'm not sure, since those are competitions which specifically are not "by class". And when I look at Category:Sailing competitions, as a reader, I'm not easily finding those. I don't know that a reader could even know where to start to look. So I dunno. But I guess my concern applies more to the tree than to the nominated cats specifically. Anyway, as for these, after looking at various articles on this, I think that they should be even more specific. So: Category:X class sailing competitions. Because there are other types of boat competitions. - jc37 21:00, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- I support such a solution. Further suggestions on how to categorise handicap sailing are welcome, but I guess they won't suit in this exact discussion. Kaffet i halsen ( talk) 10:31, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:19, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - My concerns about the tree aside, just to re-affirm what I said above, I support: Rename to Category:X class sailing competitions. And keeping the disambiguation parentheticals, per Oculi. - jc37 11:40, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: withdrawn. – Fayenatic London 12:25, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- Withdrawn by nominator. Marcocapelle ( talk) 21:08, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging
- Category:Afghan people of Kashmiri descent to Category:Afghan people of Indian descent
Category:Afghan people of Punjabi descent to Category:Afghan people of Indian descentCategory:American people of Azad Kashmiri descent to Category:American people of Indian descentCategory:American people of Bangladeshi descent to Category:American people of Indian descentCategory:American people of Bengali descent to Category:American people of Indian descent- Category:American people of Goan descent to Category:American people of Indian descent
- Category:American people of Gujarati descent to Category:American people of Indian descent
- Category:American people of Indian Tamil descent to Category:American people of Indian descent
- Nominator's rationale: delete, e.g. for American people with Indian ancestors the specific region in India where their ancestors lived is trivial for their own living in the United States.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:05, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- In making these nominations, can you please set out the number of articles in each category? In America, where there are relatively few people of Indian descent and they are mainly in professional classes, the melting pot may have erased differences. In Britain, where Indian and Pakistani immigration was largely for manual jobs, integration has been much less complete. Peterkingiron ( talk) 16:38, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support - per nom. Oculi ( talk) 12:45, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose This is much too sweeping a nom and in some cases utterly inaccurate. Azad Kashmir is the Pakistani sector of Kashmir; this also applies to Sindh, while Punjab is split between India and Pakistan. I would also oppose merger where a category is well populated. It may be appropriate to use "Indian" where the emigration took place before 1947, but not subsequently. Most immigration to Britain was 1950s and 1960s, while emigration to West Indies may have been in the 19th century (for sugar plantations); also to Africa, where Indians were imported to build railways. I would also oppose merger where a category is well populated. India is a country of many languages, so that the use of provincial demonyms is wholly appropriate where a category is well populated. Such people often retain links with their home provinces. This may be trivial in USA. It is not so in Britain. We had ethnic tension in Leicester recently, which was due to tensions arising from Indian politics. Peterkingiron ( talk) 16:34, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Azad Kashmir and Sindh are unfortunate cases which are in the tree of India. I will of course strike these nominations. The 2022 Leicester unrest was due to religious differences, not to regional differences. Marcocapelle ( talk) 17:33, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: Category:Canadian people of Bengali descent contains both Indians and Bangladeshis. Biharies in Bangladesh are a complex ethnic group called Stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh and are too complicated to merge into the Indian category. Vinegarymass911 ( talk) 19:01, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Then I will strike Category:Bangladeshi people of Bihari descent as well, leaving it for a separate nomination. I checked the 15 articles in Category:Canadian people of Bengali descent and none of them appears to be of Bangladeshi descent. Marcocapelle ( talk) 19:45, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 23:23, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Are you sure you want to merge "Bangladeshi descent" into Indian descent, even with Bangladesh being a present-day country? Why not merge "Pakistani descent" into "Indian descent", then? And if you're separating by country, please note that Bengalis and Punjabis are split, half in the present-day state of India, and half in Bangladesh / Pakistan. I am also notifying some related WikiProjects about this discussion. —
Lights and freedom (
talk ~
contribs)
00:37, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- Also I have no idea what is the purpose of
Category:Pakistani people of Indian descent. Does this refer to the broad region (Indian subcontinent), or the present day country? Merging
Category:Pakistani people of Bengali descent is questionable, since half of Bengal used to be part of Pakistan. And I don't know why you want to merge Rohingya descent into Indian descent, as the Rohingyas live mostly in Myanmar or Bangladesh. —
Lights and freedom (
talk ~
contribs)
00:45, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- The purpose of Category:Pakistani people of Indian descent is not any different from other nationality by descent categories, it is for Pakistani people with parents who migrated from India to Pakistan (after the split, obviously). Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:04, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- Also I have no idea what is the purpose of
Category:Pakistani people of Indian descent. Does this refer to the broad region (Indian subcontinent), or the present day country? Merging
Category:Pakistani people of Bengali descent is questionable, since half of Bengal used to be part of Pakistan. And I don't know why you want to merge Rohingya descent into Indian descent, as the Rohingyas live mostly in Myanmar or Bangladesh. —
Lights and freedom (
talk ~
contribs)
00:45, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Merging the "of Bangladeshi descent" and "of Bengali descent" categories into "of Indian descent" makes no sense. For example,
Rumaan Alam's parents emigrated from Bangladesh in the early 1970s. Bangladesh was not a region of India then, or likely at any time in their lives. There's no evidence that they were Indian. Why would we put him in
Category:American people of Indian descent? Bengal has at times been independent, at times part of India, at times been split between India and Pakistan, and is currently divided between Bangladesh and India. People who identify as being of Bengali descent might or might not be of Indian descent. --
Worldbruce (
talk)
04:38, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- I will strike Bengal, Bangladeshi, Punjabi, Tamil and Rohingya descent too. Bengal, Punjabi and Tamil may require a split nomination, but that is something for later. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:04, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose I see no benefit to these mergers. ★Trekker ( talk) 11:26, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose. What has been said above about the UK also holds in South Africa, where there were waves of Indian immigration from different regions, at different times and for different purposes. Those differences were magnified by apartheid and other racial inanities (try a Google Scholar search). I can't comment about the significance of regional origin in other countries, but generally I see no reason to merge well-populated categories. Jlalbion ( talk) 13:06, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
- Strong oppose As Lights and freedom mentioned, the application of the category "Pakistani people of Indian descent" in this context is itself a misnomer, because Pakistan and India were one landmass until 1947. Marcocapelle acknowledges that the Category:Pakistani people of Indian descent would therefore apply only to individuals who migrated from India to Pakistan "after the split". However, going through the Pakistani subcategories above, the individuals here are not Indian citizen emigrants to Pakistan, but rather Muhajirs who arrived in Pakistan during the partition (and their descendants) from the various provinces of India, a complex Pakistani ethnolinguistic community who in any case cannot be called "Indian" in the post-partition context. To ascribe them as 'Indian' would be to ascribe the millions who left Pakistan for India as 'Pakistani'. The Azad Kashmir nominations are also wholly inaccurate. Mar4d ( talk) 05:41, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:16, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose- Despite the nominator trying their best to change according to comments and votes they are still errors remaining. Take Category:Chinese people of Punjabi descent to Category:Chinese people of Indian descent, the Punjabi category has both Indians and Pakistanis, so merging it with Indian descent would be wrong. This is too big of a nomination to check every single entry. I would have no problem if the nom were to nominate them individually or in smaller manageable groups. Vinegarymass911 ( talk) 11:20, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you, I will do that. Marcocapelle ( talk) 21:08, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:People from Alta Loma, Rancho Cucamonga, California
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Tucana (constellation)
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Russian city-states
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 14:18, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:C2D main article
List of countries and territories where Malay is an official language, per
WP:C2C parent
Category:Countries and territories by official language, and partially per category description
This category lists countries and territories where Malay is used as either a first or native language or an official language.
Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 08:24, 18 June 2023 (UTC) - Malay/Indonesian: This category and its main page
List of countries and territories where Malay is an official language may have a similar issue as noted at
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 May 28#Category:Hindi-speaking countries and territories. We may need to exclude
Indonesia, because the
Indonesian language is
a standardized variety of Malay
, which may in practice differ significantly from the standardised varieties of Malay as used in Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, and the Cocos (Keeling) Islands. Thus, it might be incorrect/misleading to throw them all together as "Malay as an official language" (as with "Hindustani", which for official purposes is practically split in "Hindi" and "Urdu"). @ Austronesier: I couldn't possibly do without asking your linguist opinion here about this most prominent example of Austronesian languages. Thanks in advance! Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 08:32, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Rename - Countries do not speak, people do.
Category:Countries and territories by official language seems to have examples of both forms. I think a group nom might be a good idea. -
jc37
13:47, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- @
Jc37 What kind of group nom do you mean? If you mean bundling all children of
Category:Countries and territories by official language for a CfR, I decided not to do that because the circumstances are often too different to treat them all in one go (this is where bundles often fail). I consciously CfR'd them all separately, in planned stages, to increase the likelihood of reaching consensus in each individual case. So far, that appears to work quite well.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
19:31, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- PS: Almost all children that haven't been renamed yet are currently in CfR. A few exceptions have been deliberatedly postponed until a later stage for reasons I can get into if you're really interested.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
19:34, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Ah, ok. Thanks for the update : ) -
jc37
09:07, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- @ Jc37 You're welcome. It would have been a good suggestion otherwise. :) Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 01:29, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Ah, ok. Thanks for the update : ) -
jc37
09:07, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- PS: Almost all children that haven't been renamed yet are currently in CfR. A few exceptions have been deliberatedly postponed until a later stage for reasons I can get into if you're really interested.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
19:34, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- @
Jc37 What kind of group nom do you mean? If you mean bundling all children of
Category:Countries and territories by official language for a CfR, I decided not to do that because the circumstances are often too different to treat them all in one go (this is where bundles often fail). I consciously CfR'd them all separately, in planned stages, to increase the likelihood of reaching consensus in each individual case. So far, that appears to work quite well.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
19:31, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Rename and purge as needed to be less subjective. I'll defer to more knowledgable editors on including Indonesian. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
03:53, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- I tagged Austronesier already, they are quite knowledgeable. Unfortunately also very busy atm. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 01:26, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge. –
Fayenatic
London
10:38, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Singapore religious cases to Category:Law about religion in Singapore
- Nominator's rationale: category name Foo country "religious cases" is unique. Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1-2 entries. Estopedist1 ( talk) 05:31, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. There is also not a global religious case law category, as far as I can see. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:04, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 19:36, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Welfare state in the United Kingdom
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. –
Fayenatic
London
13:58, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose Deleting Category:Prix Louis Guilloux winners
- Nominator's rationale: WP:OCAWARD, WP:NONDEFINING
- The Louis-Guilloux Prize is a literary award from France given to individual books that reflect "the humane qualities of generous thought, refusing all dualism and all sacrifice of individuality in favour of ideological abstractions". This category groups authors who wrote the winning books but those biography articles don't treat this award as defining, generally listing it with other honours. The category contents are already listified right here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 00:43, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:47, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 19:38, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: Delete ( non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 19:23, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Per WP:C1, an empty category, WP:V, WP:DNWAUC, and presumably WP:OCAWARD
- Based on the parent category, I'm assuming that the Sahitya Akademi Bal Sahitya Puraskar Puraskar is an Indian literary award. (I Googled this and it's related to Sahitya Akademi but I'm not sure past that.) The only article in the category is Eli Ahmed which doesn't even mention thhe award--or Sahitya Akademi--so it should not be in the category. Indian topics are under-represented on English Wikipedia so this award may very well be notable, but the right place to add that content is in a list article with reliable sources. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 00:43, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
-
Comment: @
RevelationDirect, Hello. With regard to your proposal to remove the above category, I would like to comment that, I have created
Sahitya Akademi Bal Sahitya Puraskar and lists of recipients by languages. There is a bit of a mess in the title of the above category. Here the Puraskar is shown twice. If the category is to be retained, the title of the category has to be revised or the category has to be deleted and a new category Recipients of the Sahitya Akademi Bal Sahitya Puraskar or Recipients of the Bal Sahitya Puraskar has to be created.
- As i mentioned i created the list articles by languages. In which, 31 articles (mentioned below) are available where we can add the category. (Few have references and remaining, I have cross checked on Sahitya Akademi Website)
- Sudha Murty, Ramesh Parekh, Yoseph Macwan, Dhiruben Patel, Chandrakant Sheth, Hari Krishna Devsare, Bolwar Mahammad Kunhi, Na D'Souza, Sumatheendra Nadig, N. S. Lakshminarayan Bhat, Zareef Ahmad Zareef, S. Sivadas, N. P. Hafiz Mohamad, P. K. Gopi, Malayath Appunni, Gracy, Raghunath Paleri, Sethu (A. Sethumadhavan), Priya A. S., Dilip Prabhavalkar, Ratnakar Matkari, Dash Benhur, Karnail Singh Somal, Abhiraj Rajendra Mishra, H. R. Vishwasa, Sampadananda Mishra, Joba Murmu, M. L. Thangappa, Era Natarasan, Dasari Venkataramana.
- If the community decides to retain the category, then i will add it to above articles.
Snehrashmi (
talk)
07:35, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- @ Snehrashmi: Thank you very much for all your work! I would still favor removing the category as non-defining based on how the articles treat the awards but, if the community decides to keep, obviously it should be renamed. (Either way, we probably need a category to hold the lists.) I don't want to speak for the other editors below though so I'll ping them so they can re-evaluate their iVotes based on this new information. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 03:49, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
-
- Delete if only per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:48, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:SMALLCAT and WP:OCAWARD. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 19:37, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- @ Nederlandse Leeuw and Marcocapelle: Another editor (not the category creator) has created a main article on the award since I nominated the category. Does that change either of your iVotes? - RevelationDirect ( talk) 03:49, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- It makes no difference, it is still a case of
WP:OCAWARD. Nice that there is an article though!
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:23, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- Which main article? There are lots of Lists of Sahitya Akademi Award winners. Do you mean Bal Sahitya Puraskar?
- Whatever the case, that means the category has effectively been Listified, doesn't it? All the more reason that it is ready for deletion. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 08:42, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- The main article is now named "
Bal Sahitya Puraskar". Yes, it's now listified and I also think the category should still be deleted. Thanks for confirming both of your earlier iVotes! -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
23:20, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- You're welcome, thanks for notifying us of the development. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 01:25, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- The main article is now named "
Bal Sahitya Puraskar". Yes, it's now listified and I also think the category should still be deleted. Thanks for confirming both of your earlier iVotes! -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
23:20, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- It makes no difference, it is still a case of
WP:OCAWARD. Nice that there is an article though!
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:23, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 04:48, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: We don't categorize short stories through the year of setting. We don't even do it for novels. There aren't that many notable short stories so this is bound to be a
WP:SMALLCAT.
Pichpich (
talk)
23:29, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- If deleted, recategorize in
Category:Fiction set in 1922.
Gonnym (
talk)
10:54, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
- I do not agree. This tree should be used for fiction that is set in a clearly different time than when it was written. Marcocapelle ( talk) 11:35, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
- If deleted, recategorize in
Category:Fiction set in 1922.
Gonnym (
talk)
10:54, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. This happens to be a very trivial case: published in 1923, set in 1922. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:02, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:NARROWCAT. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 18:38, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 27#Category:Four Digit Wings of the United States Air Force
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. This is the only logical outcome now that WP:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_16#Emigrants_from_Ireland_(1801-1923) has closed as merge. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 04:52, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: A wholly un-needed chronological division of
Category:Irish people. All the contents are already adequately categorised, so no need to merge.
See also the related discussion at WP:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_16#Emigrants_from_Ireland_(1801-1923). BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 22:03, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Support, they are already in 19th- and 20th-century categories. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:05, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose - this depends on the outcome of the linked discussion.
Oculi (
talk)
23:20, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- It now has the subcat
Category:Members of the Parliament of the United Kingdom for Irish constituencies (1801–1922), which would not otherwise be adequately categorised.
Oculi (
talk)
12:45, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
- Utter nonsense. They were perfectly well categorised before. There is absolutely no benefit in chopping up the whole of : Category:Irish people just because of the life of a Parliament, whose members are already well-categorised. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 14:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- It now has the subcat
Category:Members of the Parliament of the United Kingdom for Irish constituencies (1801–1922), which would not otherwise be adequately categorised.
Oculi (
talk)
12:45, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose - this depends on the outcome of the linked discussion. Part of a wider scheme -
Category:Irish people by period. See also the Polish precedent -
Category:Polish people by period. It has 3 separate categories for 3 different regimes of the twentieth century; by the nom logic advanced above, you'd be obliged to say "Sure they're all just 20th century Polish people".
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
08:09, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
- A daft comparison. "Irish people" has had the same scope for centuries, and it is ridiculous to chop it up.
- The comparison with Poland is absurd: Poland did not exist as a nation from 1795 to 1918, or 1939-45, and post-1945 Poland had radically different boundaries to the the 1918-39 incarnation. None of that applies to "Irish people", and the 1922 creation of Northern Ireland is handled by the simple, stable solution of having Category:People from Northern Ireland as a subcat of both Category:Irish people and Category:British people. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 14:50, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- Tell that to the Poles. Their states may have evolved / dissolved over the centuries, but there were always a Polish nation. Didn't you write elsewhere that Irish people were Irish in 1799 and in 1802? Laurel Lodged ( talk) 16:54, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- Support - should be grouped by century not by period in the UK. Spleodrach ( talk) 15:50, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- Why not group by both? They're complimentary. Plus the periods don't neatly overlap at the end. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 16:56, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- Update The discussion at WP:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_16#Emigrants_from_Ireland_(1801-1923) ended in a merger. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 00:19, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
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Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 27#Category:Voodoo texts
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- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 04:53, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Duplicate of Category:Intellectual competitions, and a WP:SMALLCAT as only 1 entry (and that entry is invalid, as the article is for a person, not a competition). If kept, should be renamed to the proper capitalisation Category:International academic competitions Joseph 2302 ( talk) 17:02, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete as empty (discounting the article that does not belong here). Marcocapelle ( talk) 18:01, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
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Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 28#Category:Association football people by prefecture in Japan
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- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 04:54, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Very clearly not a defining feature of any people.
Di (they-them) (
talk)
16:02, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - I am pretty sure this got deleted at some point in the past as well. (Oinkers42) ( talk) 16:05, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete, for two articles it seems to be a defining characteristic, but two is not enough. Besides the context is very different. Marcocapelle ( talk) 18:12, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Bare feet are a part of these people's image in public consciousness, and there are RS to document it (say, Socrates is often referred to in books as "the barefoot philosopher", and Cesaria Evora was nicknamed "the Barefoot Diva"). -- GLTPRE ( talk) 19:02, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete I can't imagine the reader who would want an easy navigational pathway between Johnny Appleseed, Socrates, and Yardena Arazi. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 00:48, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- Listify. This lends itself better for a list than for a category. gidonb ( talk) 01:29, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. Yardena Arazi was also known to perform and be depicted barefoot. It's a big theme in her Hewiki entry. Her first single translates to barefoot girl. gidonb ( talk) 01:32, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete How do you define someone for this category? Barefoot when performing (if a performer), barefoot on certain occasions? LibStar ( talk) 01:35, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- delete I saw Iona Brown performing barefoot at the Kennedy Center; does she count? Sorry, this comes of as a trivial association. Mangoe ( talk) 03:59, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
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- The result of the discussion was: delete. Aside from the redundancy to Category:Films about summer camps, there was also a claim that it was less defining. (non-admin closure) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 04:55, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Redundant with the existence of Category:Films about summer camps. (Oinkers42) ( talk) 15:35, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom, but it would be good to check if some articles can be moved to Category:Films about summer camps before Category:Films set in summer camps gets deleted. Marcocapelle ( talk) 18:15, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: This is a tough one for me. Is a summer camp a geographical location, so it should be categorized similarly to Category:Films set in San Francisco, or is it a subject matter, so it should be categorized similarly to Category:Films about camping? DonIago ( talk) 21:25, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- comment This actually seems to be "films with summer camp scenes", as lots of the entries are mostly set in other locations as well. Mangoe ( talk) 03:04, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- That is also a relevant reason for deletion. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:15, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
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- The result of the discussion was: Delete This has been relisted twice, and no actual opposition to deletion has been provided in over a month ( non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 19:23, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Should follow the wider category tree of Category:Sportspeople by country of descent, which has many subcategories of sportspeople by nationality and country of descent (but does not split by specific sport). S.A. Julio ( talk) 10:24, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. S.A. Julio ( talk) 10:25, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- Question, is this about descent (i.e. did ancestors have Albanian nationality) or is it about ethnicity (i.e. the Albanian-speaking people who always have lived in what now constitutes North Macedonia)? Most articles are utterly vague about it and some articles do not mention an Albanian connection at all. Marcocapelle ( talk) 14:58, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- In fact, I am opposing this rename until this is clarified. See also Albanians in North Macedonia and Category:Albanians in North Macedonia. Marcocapelle ( talk) 08:04, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename and expand as per nom. Too narrow as it stands. Giant Snowman 18:17, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose -- There are a lot of Albanians outside Albania, for example Mother Theresa, who was from Kosovo. Nom is trying to make this an expatriate descent category, but it is probably not. This is a common issue with ethnicities within the area of the former Ottoman Empire. Peterkingiron ( talk) 15:56, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 01:56, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per
WP:OCEGRS:
people should only be categorized by ethnicity or religion if this has significant bearing on their career.
See also my Bruno Akrapović example at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 May 21#Category:Croat sportspeople from Bosnia and Herzegovina. He's not mentioned as a "Croat" anywhere, and is a very international person. We can't automatically assume ethnicity to be relevant for a footballer. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 22:58, 30 May 2023 (UTC) - Delete per Nl Leeuw. Technically
Category:Macedonian sportspeople of Albanian descent may still be created afterwards for Macedonian footballers with parents who clearly migrated from Albania, but I do not expect this to happen.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
05:27, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- Me neither. I suspect 'Albanian' here refers to citizens of North Macedonia whose native language is Albanian (c. 25% of the population), not whose parents were born in the country of Albania. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 18:50, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:34, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
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- The result of the discussion was: rename to
Category:Musical theatre television specials. –
Fayenatic
London
08:05, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Musical television specials to Category:Music television specials (or renaming to something more disambiguated)
- Nominator's rationale: These were originally separated with the rationale of a distinction between television specials that were staged broadcasts of theatrical musicals and television specials that were not, but based on the contents of the categories that's not what's actually happening. Instead, "musical" actually contains numerous entries that would belong in "music" rather than "musical" by that yardstick (such as Céline Dion and Liza Minnelli concerts). So even if separate categories are warranted here, the theatrical one would need to be purged of inappropriate entries and renamed for clarity — but as it stands, the names of these two categories aren't communicating a very clear distinction to begin with, and it's at best debatable whether the category system really needs to maintain the distinction at all. Bearcat ( talk) 22:56, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- Suggestion, rename to Category:Musicals on television and reverse the hierarchical relationship with Category:Musical television series. This way the content can be kept in the musicals tree. And, of course, move articles to Category:Music television specials when appropriate. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:56, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 01:59, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:32, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- comment These two categories seem to be made up of (by my reckoning) at least four different kinds of things, of which two are clearly TV stagings of musicals per se, and broadcast concerts. After that it gets murkier, as there are at least a couple of different things which aren't either of these two (e.g., Amahl and the Night Visitors is a made-for-TV opera, and there appear to be a number of variety shows in the list). I'm betting there are others (what's with the Peanuts special?). I'm having a hard time even coming up with an overarching category that describes all these things. Mangoe ( talk) 03:17, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- The latter is not reasonable. My earlier suggestion is to keep only the first kind of thing (musicals on TV) and move the remainder to Category:Music television specials as proposed by nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:20, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - The problem is that while the word Musical (especially when capitalised) is often a shorthand for saying Musical theatre production, it's not always clear that that is the meaning, especially when "Musical" is used as the first word of a sentence or title. I see Musical film, but I do not see Musical television. Which I suppose makes sense. I am very tempted to suggest that perhaps we may need to rename the tree of Category:Musicals. It is a subcat of Category:Musical theatre, and so should probably be renamed to Category:Musical theatre works, per WP:PRECISION. Noting too that the article is Musical theatre. - jc37 12:05, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - My above comments aside, if we just want to look at the tree of Category:Television musicals, and what I "think" the intended content is/was supposed to be, then I think the path forward is to Split Category:Musical television specials to Category:Musical theatre television specials and Category:Music television specials. - jc37 12:05, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Rename per Marcocapelle and jc37, and purge articles that don't fit to
Category:Music television specials (i.e. split between target and
Category:Music television specials).
Slight preferencce for jc37's target over Marcocapelle's. — Qwerfjkl talk 16:51, 5 July 2023 (UTC) - Oppose merge. Support renaming to Category:Musical theatre television specials per Jc37. 4meter4 ( talk) 01:24, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
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Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 28#Category:LeAnn Rimes
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- The result of the discussion was: no consensus.
(non-admin closure)
Qwerfjkl
talk
16:58, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Tsardom of Russia nuns to Category:Russian nuns
- Nominator's rationale: AFAIK, we don't have any categories "by country" for nuns. We only have "by nationality" categories for nuns. The Tsardom / Empire is the exception.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
08:35, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- @ Laurel Lodged we do, see Category:Kievan Rus' nuns (currently in CfR). Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 07:37, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 09:26, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Tsardom of Russia =/= Russian Federation. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 07:54, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 02:06, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- The tsardom isn't the federation, but Russian people were living in the tsardom as well as in the federation. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:54, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
-
Comment: I think that we need to first resolve the "by country" versus "by nationality" question posed by nom. Nom and I discussed this at a bit more length in the related CfM on
Category:Nuns from the Russian Empire. TL;DR: The
Category:People by country tree refers to country of residence, but at various points along this tree it has been inappropriately mixed up with the
Category:People by nationality tree. If we don't fix this problem first by clarifying that "by country" means "by country of residence", this problem will persist across English Wikipedia and make nominations like this difficult to decide on. Cheers,
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
07:22, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:27, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- As mentioned in another discussion, "by nationality" also includes by country of residence. We cannot check people's passports and the concept of a passport is fairly new anyway. I am not convinced that we should solve this ambiguity, it is just something to keep into account.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
18:26, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- No, there was no consensus in the Category:People by country CfR on what that category tree actually means. We are still figuring that out.
- One thing I did manage to establish was that Category:Dutch political prisoners should be Renamed Category:Political prisoners in the Netherlands; and it was. Because we're not so much interested in the nationality of the prisoners, but in the country they are being detained in.
- So now I CfR'd the whole Category:Political prisoners by country to Category:Political prisoners by country of detention. We might say it's a form of "people by country of temporary residence"; they "live" in a prison located in that country (whether coinciding with the country of their nationality or not) until the detention expires (or they die, or they are pardoned, or they escape etc.). Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 06:36, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
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- The result of the discussion was: rename/manual upmerge.
(non-admin closure)
Qwerfjkl
talk
17:00, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming
Category:Greek chronicles to
Category:Chronicles about Greece
- Re-parent from Category:Greek literature (by country) to Category:History books about Greece (by topic) and Category:Chronicles by topic
- Propose renaming
Category:Byzantine chronicles to
Category:Chronicles about the Byzantine Empire
- Re-parent from Category:Byzantine literature (by country) to History books about the Byzantine Empire (by topic) and Category:Chronicles by topic
- Propose renaming
Category:Greek chronicles to
Category:Chronicles about Greece
- Nominator's rationale: Category tree has been reorganised by language and by topic, see
Category talk:Greek chronicles#Categorisation by language and topic for the full background, explanation and process. See also other current CfRs concerning renaming Fooian chronicles to Chronicles about Fooland.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
11:58, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- PS: We could theoretically create an additional Category:Greek-language chronicles about Greece, by which "Greece" means the territory of the modern Hellenic Republic (excluding "Ancient Greek" and "Byzantine" areas in Asia Minor, southern Italy etc.). This would include the following 6 items: Leipziger Weltchronik (founding of Thebes), Lindos Chronicle (local history of Lindos on Rhodes), Chronicle of Monemvasia (purported history of early medieval mainland Greece), Chronicle of Ioannina (local history of Ioannina, Epirus), Chronicle of the Tocco ( Tocco family history of Epirus), and Chronicle of Galaxeidi (local history of Galaxidi, Phocis). But I'm worried that this category may be misunderstood or abused by people who interpret "Greece" more broadly than that, or that extending "Greece" before the 19th century may lead to accusations of WP:OR. So I haven't created it yet, and maybe we shouldn't. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 12:23, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support Byzantine per nom, manually merge Greek (excluding subcat) to parent categories per
WP:SMALLCAT.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
05:40, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- I'm open to this solution, especially if we decide that creating Category:Greek-language chronicles about Greece (which would be one of its two children) is a bad option for the reasons I have given. SMALLCAT is a relevant point here. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 07:20, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 5#Category:Chechen-speaking countries and territories
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 5#Category:Hindi-speaking countries and territories
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- The result of the discussion was: split. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 17:16, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: While there are some TV series in the category, there are also episodes of shows and TV specials. New name would more accurately represent categories scope.
JDDJS (
talk to me •
see what I've done)
16:05, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Appears to be following
Category:Parody television series' name scheme, as opposed to
Category:Parody television episodes'. Perhaps a split would be more helpful.
QuietHere (
talk |
contributions)
16:38, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- There would only be like 4 articles in the category if we split. JDDJS ( talk to me • see what I've done) 20:05, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Appears to be following
Category:Parody television series' name scheme, as opposed to
Category:Parody television episodes'. Perhaps a split would be more helpful.
QuietHere (
talk |
contributions)
16:38, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- With 4 articles about series and 8 about episodes, there is enough to split. – Fayenatic London 12:56, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
- Split to Category:Parody television series based on Star Wars and Category:Parody television episodes based on Star Wars per Fayenatic london. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 04:13, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:18, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
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- The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 17:29, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:C2C parent
Category:Countries and territories by official language, and per category description
This category lists countries and territories where Swedish is used as an official language.
Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 16:26, 28 May 2023 (UTC)- It looks that two out of five entries don't fit with is and probably don't fit with official either.
Kaffet i halsen (
talk)
16:56, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The historical
Grand Duchy of Finland and
Estonia under Swedish rule? Perhaps is is not grammatically correct. However, I checked at least the official status of the former, and German Wikipedia has an officially designated "excellent article" (Exzellente Artikel) on it:
de:Großfürstentum Finnland. It says
Das Schwedische bewahrte sich seine Position als Amts- und Verwaltungssprache auch unter der russischen Krone.
("Swedish also kept its position as language of administration and government under the Russian crown"). It continues saying that Finnish was recognised as an equal language of administration in 1902, and Russification efforts which began in 1900 were abandoned in 1906. About Estonia I'd have to check. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 18:19, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The historical
Grand Duchy of Finland and
Estonia under Swedish rule? Perhaps is is not grammatically correct. However, I checked at least the official status of the former, and German Wikipedia has an officially designated "excellent article" (Exzellente Artikel) on it:
de:Großfürstentum Finnland. It says
- It looks that two out of five entries don't fit with is and probably don't fit with official either.
Kaffet i halsen (
talk)
16:56, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- It is an odd category with both Finland and its predecessor in it, with Finnish islands rather being defined by the fact that Finnish is not an official language, and anything under Swedish rule for which it is trivial that Swedish was the official language. I'd say just Sweden and Finland would suffice, but then smallcat would become an issue.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
20:49, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Well history has a way of surprising us every day. ;) The Swedish-language impact on the history of Finland is huge. We may find that odd today, because of the
Languages of Finland,
Swedish [was] the main language of 5.2% of the population in 2020, (92.4% in the Åland autonomous province),
those "Finnish islands". But it isdown from 14% at the beginning of the 20th century (...). Swedish was the language of the administration until the late 19th century.
- You and Kaffet i halsen have a point that including former countries and territories may be a bit odd because of the word is, or because it may not be clear what the value is of categorising former countries and territories by official language. I must admit I hadn't really considered the implications of that yet until today. But official languages are a relatively modern phenomenon (just like state religions), and they should be verifiable aspects of former states.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
21:12, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- @
Nederlandse Leeuw: I do have a problem with the word "is" per se. The point of these categories is to understand the spread of a language outside its home country. Inclusion of former countries in the same territory may technically satisfy the category title, but it is totally irrelevant from a demographic / linguistic point of view.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:56, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- @ Marcocapelle The point of these categories is to understand the spread of a language outside its home country. Is it? I don't think so; we've got Category:Geographical distribution of languages for that. This CfR is about law. Namely, the legal status of a particular language in a particular jurisdiction ("countries and territories"). It is not about how many people speak it, or where, or what the supposed "home country of a language" (if such a thing does even exist) is. The point of renaming its parent Category:Countries and territories by language to Category:Countries and territories by official language was to eliminate the arbitrary/subjective WP:CROSSCATegorisation between demographics and law.
- ...totally irrelevant from a demographic / linguistic point of view. Yes, but
linguistics and
demographics are irrelevant when it comes to law. This CfR is about law. Cheers,
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
07:17, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Ok, that is interesting, I was not aware of (or had forgotten about) this tree. This seems the more relevant tree; law is a mere trivial aspect of this topic which is primarily about demographics and language. By the way, would you also add all "Colonial" articles to these legal categories? For your own consistency you probably should, but it seems rather absurd to me.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
08:14, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- @ Marcocapelle ( Category:Geographical distribution of languages) seems the more relevant tree; (it) is primarily about demographics and language. Why do you think so?
- law is a mere trivial aspect of this topic Well, its parent is Category:Countries and territories by official language.
- would you also add all "Colonial" articles to these legal categories? If we were to accept former jurisdictions ("countries and territories") which had official languages to this tree, then yes. But as a community, we haven't yet formally made that decision. It's only items in some categories such as Grand Duchy of Finland in this one, or Qara Khitai in Category:Persian-speaking countries and territories, where certain former jurisdictions were already categorised by (official?) language. This was before the parent Category:Countries and territories by official language was renamed, and I started CfRing its children for renaming to Countries and territories where Fooian is an official language per WP:C2C. I didn't consider former jurisdictions at the time, I just wasn't aware of the potential grammatical or historical vs present issues that might result in. I do, however, think that former jurisdictions are legitimate items for these categories. I actually populated Category:Ukrainian-speaking countries and territories with former jurisdictions in order to save it from deletion per WP:SMALLCAT, but you have voiced similar concerns/objections there. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 08:33, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Ok, that is interesting, I was not aware of (or had forgotten about) this tree. This seems the more relevant tree; law is a mere trivial aspect of this topic which is primarily about demographics and language. By the way, would you also add all "Colonial" articles to these legal categories? For your own consistency you probably should, but it seems rather absurd to me.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
08:14, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- @
Nederlandse Leeuw: I do have a problem with the word "is" per se. The point of these categories is to understand the spread of a language outside its home country. Inclusion of former countries in the same territory may technically satisfy the category title, but it is totally irrelevant from a demographic / linguistic point of view.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:56, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Well history has a way of surprising us every day. ;) The Swedish-language impact on the history of Finland is huge. We may find that odd today, because of the
Languages of Finland,
- Comment: Added
List of municipalities of Finland in which Finnish is not the sole official language to the category.
Kaffet i halsen (
talk)
11:17, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- That was a good idea, thanks! Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 11:38, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
- Update siblings about Azerbaijani, Hungarian, Somali, and Tamil have recently been renamed to ...where Fooian is an official language for the same or similar reasons as in the rationale. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 15:10, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:16, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Rename and Purge This is much less subjective and more defining. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 01:02, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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- The result of the discussion was: merge. Next time, please use
WP:C2F.
(non-admin closure) –
LaundryPizza03 (
d
c̄)
04:56, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:RUSNANO to Category:Nanotechnology companies of Russia
- Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 ( talk) 15:15, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 18:33, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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- The result of the discussion was: merge to
Category:Former populated places in Turkey. –
Fayenatic
London
13:32, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:Unpopulated villages in Turkey to Category:Depopulated villages in Turkey
- Nominator's rationale: More accurate as the populations were forcibly removed. "Unpopulated" is a more vague term here. Semsûrî ( talk) 10:12, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment, it is not always clear from the article text if the village was forcibly depopulated.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
21:14, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- You're right. Three of the entries (out of seven) now lack the explicitness. I'll continue to look for more explicit mentions for the rest of them. Semsûrî ( talk) 16:01, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
- Would renaming to
Category:Ghost towns in Turkey be appropriate here? This is a bit of an odd category. Leaning towards deleting rather than the nominated rename. –
Aidan721 (
talk)
16:31, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
- Hmm, maybe the category can be deleted. I just thought it would have been great to have all the unpopulated villages categorized but oh well.
Semsûrî (
talk)
10:55, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
- I'm leaning to delete too. Marcocapelle ( talk) 20:47, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
- Hmm, maybe the category can be deleted. I just thought it would have been great to have all the unpopulated villages categorized but oh well.
Semsûrî (
talk)
10:55, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename as nom. Those I sampled had been depopulated during Turkish/Kurdish conflicts. "Village" sounds right, but they might be included in a ghost towns tree. Peterkingiron ( talk) 18:07, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename to
Category:Ghost towns in Turkey, solely for consistency without regards to whether they were forcibly evicted by
population transfer or otherwise. –
LaundryPizza03 (
d
c̄)
20:31, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
- But all of these are villages and not towns? Semsûrî ( talk) 12:05, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/ STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 16:29, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Alt Rename to Category:Ghost towns in Turkey per LaundryPizza03 and established parent Category:Ghost towns by country, or Merge to Category:Former populated places in Turkey per established parent Category:Former populated places by country.
- Although there is no parent like Category:Depopulated villages by country, there is a great number of singular "depopulated villages" categories for – you guessed it – very controversial conflict-related topics. Some examples:
- Category:Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War
- Category:Jewish villages depopulated during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War
- Category:Arab villages depopulated prior to the 1948 Arab–Israeli War
- Category:Greek Cypriot villages depopulated during the 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus
- Category:Turkish Cypriot villages depopulated after the 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus
- Category:Villages depopulated during the 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus
- Category:Villages depopulated during the Arab–Israeli conflict
- Category:Arab villages depopulated after the 1948 Arab–Israeli War
- Category:Jewish villages depopulated during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war
- Category:Lists of depopulated towns and villages of subdistricts of Mandatory Palestine
- Obviously, such categorisations are implicit/explicit accusations of war crimes / crimes against humanity by some other state or non-state actor. I would generally be in favour of Listify to allow WP:RS to be added for WP:V. We can't have baseless accusations of serious crimes without evidence. If, as it seems, these villages were "depopulated" during Turkish/Kurdish conflicts as Peterkingiron says, we need evidence, and Listify is the best option. Otherwise, I suggest we do not use the term "depopulated" here.
- The only one which doesn't appear to be controversial is Category:Villages in Norway (depopulated). This one might as well be called "Abandoned villages in Norway". Its parent is Category:Former populated places in Norway, which is part of the Category:Former populated places by country. Not sure what the difference is between "ghost towns" and "former populated places", except that the last one doesn't have to be a "town", thus satisfying Semsûrî's objection against "ghost towns". Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 17:52, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:13, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Merge to Category:Former populated places in Turkey per Nederlandse Leeuw. — Qwerfjkl talk 17:32, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- In agreement with Merge to Category:Former populated places in Turkey. My feeling is that 'ghost town' is kind of an Americanism (I could be wrong, but that's my feeling) and carries with it a certain connotation related to the American Old West. The 'former populated places' is by no means a perfect category as it makes no distinction between modern and ancient times; for instance, certainly Antioch is a formerly populated place, but it also has some current population related to the archeological activities going on there, albeit not likely a transient population and not "incorporated", but can we say that ancient cities were "incorporated" in the modern sense - I don't think so, myself. Regards --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 01:53, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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- The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 17:34, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Per WP:C2D main article List of countries and territories where Persian is an official language, and per WP:C2C parent Category:Countries and territories by official language. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 16:54, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete, outside Iran there is currently only Bahrein with a sizeable Persian-speaking minority (btw not an official language in Bahrein).
Marcocapelle (
talk)
19:30, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- That is not the question. The question is which countries and territories have Persian as an official language. In Afghanistan they call it Dari, but it is a variety of Persian. In Tajikistan they call it Tajik, but it is a variety of Persian. In Dagestan they call it Tat language (Caucasus), but it is a variety of Persian. That already makes 4, as mentioned in List of countries and territories where Persian is an official language. (The "Significant minority language" section should be removed btw because it is out of scope). So it can't be deleted as a SMALLCAT. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 20:58, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Update siblings about Azerbaijani, Hungarian, Somali, and Tamil have recently been renamed to ...where Fooian is an official language for the same or similar reasons as in the rationale. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 15:12, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 15:05, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Rename This is much less subjective and therefore more defining. Purge if needed. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 01:05, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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- The result of the discussion was: rename to
Category:Family trees of royalty and purge.
(non-admin closure)
Qwerfjkl
talk
11:23, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:Dynasty genealogy to Category:Family trees of royalty and nobility
- Nominator's rationale: "Dynasty genealogy" is not a term I have ever heard before, and it seems to not really reflect a lot of the articles and templates collected in it. ★Trekker ( talk) 12:56, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
Renameper nom: Awkward phrasing which doesn't do a great job clearly explaining the category at first glance (it's not even plural!) QuietHere ( talk | contributions) 14:58, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
- Changing vote to rename to Category:Noble family trees per Nederlandse Leeuw below. QuietHere ( talk | contributions) 03:38, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
- Alternative: rename to
Category:Family trees of royalty and move everything not about royalty to
Category:Family trees. This way the category can clearly be put in the royalty tree.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
16:36, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
- This seems smarter honestly. ★Trekker ( talk) 10:20, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- Alternative 2: Please, let's rename this to Category:Noble family trees to avoid all the problems we've had with the words "royalty" and "royal" in numerous other categories.
- Precedents: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2022_January_2#Ruling_families_of_counties_and_duchies and Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_April_22#Category:Nobles_of_Kievan_Rus.
- Ongoing: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_May_14#Category:Princes_in_Rus'.
- At
User:Nederlandse Leeuw/People from Kievan Rus' category tree#Rationale, I've explained further problems. Excerpt: I have come to the conclusion that the terms "royalty" and "royal houses" are pretty useless for categorisation. (...) "
royalty" refers only to the reigning king/queen (or higher: emperor/empress, tsar/tsarina etc.) and their immediate family:
the immediate family of a king or queen regnant, and sometimes his or her extended family
. Once the reigning monarch dies and the next monarch accedes, this may completely change who is now "royalty", just like the order of succession may change suddenly when a royal (including the monarch himself/herself) dies. Moreover, it's always possible for a dynasty to fall by being overthrown (during wars of succession or princely rebellions) by another noble family, whose core members then suddenly become "royalty" at the expense of the immediate family of the overthrown/previous monarch. That they are all nobility, however, is something that never changes until modern times when royalty and nobility are abolished. (...) Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 19:01, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
- rename to Category:Family trees of royalty and purge of any who are not royal (or imperial). People appear in these because of relationship to a monarch. We may need a "noble family trees" category, but we would need one for each country. In UK, there is a list article for each peerage, so that there is usually no family tree article as such, so that "noble family trees of UK" would probably be unnecessary. Peterkingiron ( talk) 15:30, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 22:22, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- In practice I am not seeing problems with "royalty", but I am also fine with splitting the category between Category:Noble family trees as a subcategory of Category:Family trees, and Category:Family trees of royalty as a subcategory of the previous. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:51, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 14:58, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Rename to Category:Family trees of royalty and purge of any who are not royal (or imperial), per others above. No idea if we need (or should have) Category:Family trees of nobility, so I'm neutral on whether that should be created as a split target. (However, I do oppose usage of the wording of Category:Noble family trees.) - jc37 12:52, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Manuscripts by area
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:European chronicles
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename.
(non-admin closure) –
LaundryPizza03 (
d
c̄)
04:56, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:Úrvalsdeild kvenna (football) to Category:Besta deild kvenna
- Propose renaming Category:Úrvalsdeild kvenna (football) players to Category:Besta deild kvenna players
- Propose merging Category:Úrvalsdeild Women into Category:Besta deild kvenna
- Propose renaming Category:Úrvalsdeild Women clubs to Category:Besta deild kvenna clubs
- Nominator's rationale: The league and its main article were renamed from " Úrvalsdeild kvenna (football)" to " Besta deild kvenna" in 2022. Categories should align accordingly. Additionally, Category:Úrvalsdeild Women duplicates Category:Úrvalsdeild kvenna (football) and should also be merged into the new category; its only contents are the same main article and Category:Úrvalsdeild Women clubs. - Socccc ( talk) 13:14, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: I intentionally did not nominate Category:Úrvalsdeild kvenna (football) players by team as it is separately up for CfD. If it is kept rather than deleted, it should be added to this request to rename it accordingly. - Socccc ( talk) 13:20, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Move all clear case of WP:C2D, they could be speedy moved. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 08:04, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 18:15, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- Speedy rename per Joseph. Giant Snowman 18:16, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Places of local interest needing cleanup
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Novels set in fictional villages
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Two-time VFL/AFL Premiership players
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- The result of the discussion was: rename.
(non-admin closure)
Qwerfjkl
talk
14:11, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:21st-century viceregal rulers to Category:21st-century viceroys
- Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C Category:Viceroys. "Rulers" seems to have no added meaning or value here. It's almost never used in modern literature. The point seems to be that their title wasn't necessarily "viceroy", but so what? The category is about functions, not titles.
- I don't think upmerging per WP:SMALLCAT is necessary because it can be populated with, say, lots of items in Category:Viceroys in Australia. There is clear potential for growth, and this century is far from over. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 21:54, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
- Rename per nom, or rename to
Category:21st-century gouvernors-general because I think the term "viceroy" is no longer used. The only article in this category should be purged however:
Albert II, Prince of Monaco was very briefly
regent before he became monarch, not vice-roy. It is barely defining for him either.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
05:21, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- It is still used for Canada, Australia, New Zealand and a couple of other countries, although it is true that most or all of these seem to have switched to "Governor-General" or "Governor" in practice. I noticed that when I was creating and populating the Category:Viceregal consorts category. There is a Category:Canadian viceregal consorts, but for Australia and NZ they prefer "Spouses of Fooian Governors(-General)", e.g. Category:Spouses of New South Wales Governors. It seems that 'viceroy' is used more between this person and the British monarch, while 'governor(-general)' is used more between this person and the people they govern over, but I'd have to check that. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 06:34, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- By the way, there is a whole series of viceregal rulers by century.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
16:15, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- I know. I'm using this as a test case. Starting with a simple question to set a precedent, and then address a more complex one next instead of nominating 20 categories and getting a confused discussion. ;) Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 21:26, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose The category is part of an entire series of categories about
regents.
Dimadick (
talk)
08:35, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Are you sure? Regents are a different function; this category isn't in the
Category:Regents tree.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
21:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Perhaps you mean Category:20th-century regents of Greece and Category:19th-century regents of Greece? They seem to be miscategorised. "Regents" and "viceroys" are two different things. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 23:22, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- They are categories that I have been using frequently for years, and trying to expand when I can. They all include the same standardised template message: "This category is for any senior officials that act in the name of and as a representative of a monarch. Their function may be largely or wholly ceremonial and they may not be titled viceroy, but regent, governor-general, governor, lord lieutenant, etc." Most of the people included were regents, not viceroys. Some of these categories have been around since 2009, and have always focused on regents.
Dimadick (
talk)
00:02, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Okay, thanks for explaining, but I'm afraid that this definition/scope is not supported by
WP:RS.
Google Books shows it is extremely rare, only has passing mentions and all of them are at least 40 years old (
WP:AGEMATTERS; the category in question is about "viceregal rulers" in the 21st century, but no book has used that term since 1983). From what I can tell, half of them refer to Spanish colonial viceroys in the Americas, the other half refers in British or Sasanian viceroys in India or Persia. I do not see any "regents" here. Nor do I see anything which supports such a broad and vague definition such as "any senior officials that act in the name of and as a representative of a monarch." How is that not
WP:OR?
How is it "vandalism" for Marcocapelle to take this category out of "Regents" and "Governors-general"? How is the rest of your argument different from
WP:MERCY/
WP:ITEXISTS ("I've put a lot of work in it, and it has existed for a long time")? I understand that if I were in your position, I wouldn't like it either, and be disappointed, but I would eventually agree that this category tree doesn't seem to hold up under scrutiny. Cheers,
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
06:43, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- The whole tree should be split between
regents on the one hand and
governors or
viceroys on the other hand. They are completely different things.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
07:42, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Well said. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 21:00, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- The whole tree should be split between
regents on the one hand and
governors or
viceroys on the other hand. They are completely different things.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
07:42, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Okay, thanks for explaining, but I'm afraid that this definition/scope is not supported by
WP:RS.
Google Books shows it is extremely rare, only has passing mentions and all of them are at least 40 years old (
WP:AGEMATTERS; the category in question is about "viceregal rulers" in the 21st century, but no book has used that term since 1983). From what I can tell, half of them refer to Spanish colonial viceroys in the Americas, the other half refers in British or Sasanian viceroys in India or Persia. I do not see any "regents" here. Nor do I see anything which supports such a broad and vague definition such as "any senior officials that act in the name of and as a representative of a monarch." How is that not
WP:OR?
How is it "vandalism" for Marcocapelle to take this category out of "Regents" and "Governors-general"? How is the rest of your argument different from
WP:MERCY/
WP:ITEXISTS ("I've put a lot of work in it, and it has existed for a long time")? I understand that if I were in your position, I wouldn't like it either, and be disappointed, but I would eventually agree that this category tree doesn't seem to hold up under scrutiny. Cheers,
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
06:43, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Are you sure? Regents are a different function; this category isn't in the
Category:Regents tree.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
21:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Split -- Regents (who deputise for a king during incapacity) should not be in this category at all. I would prefer the tree to be something like "governor-general" or "governors" reflecting the actual titles. The former are the monarch's representative in dominions. Under them are provincial governors for (I think) Canadian and Australian provinces. For earlier periods, UK only used viceroy for India; also Lord Lieutenant for Ireland. Governors could also cover colonial governors. I think the Spanish had viceroys in New Spain. Peterkingiron ( talk) 20:25, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- @
Dimadick,
Nederlandse Leeuw, and
Peterkingiron: meanwhile most of the century categories seem to contain regents only, most governors have apparently been purged. So shall we rename this category now to
Category:21st-century regents and remove
Category:Governors and
Category:Viceroys as parent categories?
Marcocapelle (
talk)
18:47, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
- Agree for now. I expect all the 20th- and 21st-century rulers categories to be deleted anyway per the 2010 precedent, but we'll see. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 18:53, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:33, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: Rename to
Category:12 Metre class sailing competitions,
Category:420 (dinghy) class sailing competitions etc. –
Fayenatic
London 11:14, 29 June 2023 (UTC) –
Fayenatic
London
11:14, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:12 Metre competitions to Category:12 Metre class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:420 (dinghy) competitions to Category:420 class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:470 competitions to Category:470 class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:49er competitions to Category:49er class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:49er FX competitions to Category:49er FX class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:6 Metre competitions to Category:6 Metre class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Byte CII competitions to Category:Byte CII class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Cadet competitions to Category:Cadet class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Class40 competitions to Category:Class40 class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Dragon (keelboat) competitions to Category:Dragon class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Europe (dinghy) competitions to Category:Europe class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Finn competitions to Category:Finn class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:GC32 competitions to Category:GC32 class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Hobie 16 competitions to Category:Hobie 16 class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:IMOCA 60 competitions to Category:IMOCA 60 class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:J/24 competitions to Category:J/24 class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Laser (dinghy) competitions to Category:Laser class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Lightning (dinghy) competitions to Category:Lightning class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Mistral One Design competitions to Category:Mistral One Design class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Nacra 17 competitions to Category:Nacra 17 class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Optimist competitions to Category:Optimist class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:RS:X competitions to Category:RS:X class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Snipe competitions to Category:Snipe class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Soling competitions to Category:Soling class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Star (keelboat) competitions to Category:Star class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Sunfish competitions to Category:Sunfish class competitions
- Propose renaming Category:Techno 293 competitions to Category:Techno 293 class competitions
- Nominator's rationale: Other categories related to Sailing by class ( Category:Sailors (sport) by class, Category:Olympic sailors by class, and Category:World champions in sailing by class) follows the proposed scheme. Kaffet i halsen ( talk) 11:35, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 03:37, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- We do not necessarily need to follow the same scheme for competitions as we have for people. It depends on common language. Marcocapelle ( talk) 04:54, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- I've now tried to look at the use outside Wikipedia but there is no tendency to support either (Boat) competitions or (Boat) class competitions. On Wikipedia it is a strong preference towards using (Boat) class, e.g. 470 class when talking about competitive sailing. Kaffet i halsen ( talk) 10:31, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose removal of dabs, per eg Lightning (dinghy), Category:Lightning (dinghy) (this is contrary to WP:C2C). There may be others that should have dabs; some look very ambiguous ( Category:Cadet (dinghy), as I thought; see Category:Sailing by class for more). Oculi ( talk) 12:56, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - first, I agree with User:Oculi, that we should not be removing the parenthetical dabs. As for adding "class" to all of these, I'm not sure. Category:Sailing by class, and its subcat Category:Sailing competitions by class both exist. But when I look at Sailing_(sport)#Handicap_racing, I'm not sure, since those are competitions which specifically are not "by class". And when I look at Category:Sailing competitions, as a reader, I'm not easily finding those. I don't know that a reader could even know where to start to look. So I dunno. But I guess my concern applies more to the tree than to the nominated cats specifically. Anyway, as for these, after looking at various articles on this, I think that they should be even more specific. So: Category:X class sailing competitions. Because there are other types of boat competitions. - jc37 21:00, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- I support such a solution. Further suggestions on how to categorise handicap sailing are welcome, but I guess they won't suit in this exact discussion. Kaffet i halsen ( talk) 10:31, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:19, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - My concerns about the tree aside, just to re-affirm what I said above, I support: Rename to Category:X class sailing competitions. And keeping the disambiguation parentheticals, per Oculi. - jc37 11:40, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: withdrawn. – Fayenatic London 12:25, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- Withdrawn by nominator. Marcocapelle ( talk) 21:08, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging
- Category:Afghan people of Kashmiri descent to Category:Afghan people of Indian descent
Category:Afghan people of Punjabi descent to Category:Afghan people of Indian descentCategory:American people of Azad Kashmiri descent to Category:American people of Indian descentCategory:American people of Bangladeshi descent to Category:American people of Indian descentCategory:American people of Bengali descent to Category:American people of Indian descent- Category:American people of Goan descent to Category:American people of Indian descent
- Category:American people of Gujarati descent to Category:American people of Indian descent
- Category:American people of Indian Tamil descent to Category:American people of Indian descent
- Nominator's rationale: delete, e.g. for American people with Indian ancestors the specific region in India where their ancestors lived is trivial for their own living in the United States.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:05, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- In making these nominations, can you please set out the number of articles in each category? In America, where there are relatively few people of Indian descent and they are mainly in professional classes, the melting pot may have erased differences. In Britain, where Indian and Pakistani immigration was largely for manual jobs, integration has been much less complete. Peterkingiron ( talk) 16:38, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support - per nom. Oculi ( talk) 12:45, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose This is much too sweeping a nom and in some cases utterly inaccurate. Azad Kashmir is the Pakistani sector of Kashmir; this also applies to Sindh, while Punjab is split between India and Pakistan. I would also oppose merger where a category is well populated. It may be appropriate to use "Indian" where the emigration took place before 1947, but not subsequently. Most immigration to Britain was 1950s and 1960s, while emigration to West Indies may have been in the 19th century (for sugar plantations); also to Africa, where Indians were imported to build railways. I would also oppose merger where a category is well populated. India is a country of many languages, so that the use of provincial demonyms is wholly appropriate where a category is well populated. Such people often retain links with their home provinces. This may be trivial in USA. It is not so in Britain. We had ethnic tension in Leicester recently, which was due to tensions arising from Indian politics. Peterkingiron ( talk) 16:34, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Azad Kashmir and Sindh are unfortunate cases which are in the tree of India. I will of course strike these nominations. The 2022 Leicester unrest was due to religious differences, not to regional differences. Marcocapelle ( talk) 17:33, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: Category:Canadian people of Bengali descent contains both Indians and Bangladeshis. Biharies in Bangladesh are a complex ethnic group called Stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh and are too complicated to merge into the Indian category. Vinegarymass911 ( talk) 19:01, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Then I will strike Category:Bangladeshi people of Bihari descent as well, leaving it for a separate nomination. I checked the 15 articles in Category:Canadian people of Bengali descent and none of them appears to be of Bangladeshi descent. Marcocapelle ( talk) 19:45, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 23:23, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Are you sure you want to merge "Bangladeshi descent" into Indian descent, even with Bangladesh being a present-day country? Why not merge "Pakistani descent" into "Indian descent", then? And if you're separating by country, please note that Bengalis and Punjabis are split, half in the present-day state of India, and half in Bangladesh / Pakistan. I am also notifying some related WikiProjects about this discussion. —
Lights and freedom (
talk ~
contribs)
00:37, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- Also I have no idea what is the purpose of
Category:Pakistani people of Indian descent. Does this refer to the broad region (Indian subcontinent), or the present day country? Merging
Category:Pakistani people of Bengali descent is questionable, since half of Bengal used to be part of Pakistan. And I don't know why you want to merge Rohingya descent into Indian descent, as the Rohingyas live mostly in Myanmar or Bangladesh. —
Lights and freedom (
talk ~
contribs)
00:45, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- The purpose of Category:Pakistani people of Indian descent is not any different from other nationality by descent categories, it is for Pakistani people with parents who migrated from India to Pakistan (after the split, obviously). Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:04, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- Also I have no idea what is the purpose of
Category:Pakistani people of Indian descent. Does this refer to the broad region (Indian subcontinent), or the present day country? Merging
Category:Pakistani people of Bengali descent is questionable, since half of Bengal used to be part of Pakistan. And I don't know why you want to merge Rohingya descent into Indian descent, as the Rohingyas live mostly in Myanmar or Bangladesh. —
Lights and freedom (
talk ~
contribs)
00:45, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose Merging the "of Bangladeshi descent" and "of Bengali descent" categories into "of Indian descent" makes no sense. For example,
Rumaan Alam's parents emigrated from Bangladesh in the early 1970s. Bangladesh was not a region of India then, or likely at any time in their lives. There's no evidence that they were Indian. Why would we put him in
Category:American people of Indian descent? Bengal has at times been independent, at times part of India, at times been split between India and Pakistan, and is currently divided between Bangladesh and India. People who identify as being of Bengali descent might or might not be of Indian descent. --
Worldbruce (
talk)
04:38, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- I will strike Bengal, Bangladeshi, Punjabi, Tamil and Rohingya descent too. Bengal, Punjabi and Tamil may require a split nomination, but that is something for later. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:04, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose I see no benefit to these mergers. ★Trekker ( talk) 11:26, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose. What has been said above about the UK also holds in South Africa, where there were waves of Indian immigration from different regions, at different times and for different purposes. Those differences were magnified by apartheid and other racial inanities (try a Google Scholar search). I can't comment about the significance of regional origin in other countries, but generally I see no reason to merge well-populated categories. Jlalbion ( talk) 13:06, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
- Strong oppose As Lights and freedom mentioned, the application of the category "Pakistani people of Indian descent" in this context is itself a misnomer, because Pakistan and India were one landmass until 1947. Marcocapelle acknowledges that the Category:Pakistani people of Indian descent would therefore apply only to individuals who migrated from India to Pakistan "after the split". However, going through the Pakistani subcategories above, the individuals here are not Indian citizen emigrants to Pakistan, but rather Muhajirs who arrived in Pakistan during the partition (and their descendants) from the various provinces of India, a complex Pakistani ethnolinguistic community who in any case cannot be called "Indian" in the post-partition context. To ascribe them as 'Indian' would be to ascribe the millions who left Pakistan for India as 'Pakistani'. The Azad Kashmir nominations are also wholly inaccurate. Mar4d ( talk) 05:41, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:16, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose- Despite the nominator trying their best to change according to comments and votes they are still errors remaining. Take Category:Chinese people of Punjabi descent to Category:Chinese people of Indian descent, the Punjabi category has both Indians and Pakistanis, so merging it with Indian descent would be wrong. This is too big of a nomination to check every single entry. I would have no problem if the nom were to nominate them individually or in smaller manageable groups. Vinegarymass911 ( talk) 11:20, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you, I will do that. Marcocapelle ( talk) 21:08, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:People from Alta Loma, Rancho Cucamonga, California
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Tucana (constellation)
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Russian city-states
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 14:18, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:C2D main article
List of countries and territories where Malay is an official language, per
WP:C2C parent
Category:Countries and territories by official language, and partially per category description
This category lists countries and territories where Malay is used as either a first or native language or an official language.
Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 08:24, 18 June 2023 (UTC) - Malay/Indonesian: This category and its main page
List of countries and territories where Malay is an official language may have a similar issue as noted at
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 May 28#Category:Hindi-speaking countries and territories. We may need to exclude
Indonesia, because the
Indonesian language is
a standardized variety of Malay
, which may in practice differ significantly from the standardised varieties of Malay as used in Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, and the Cocos (Keeling) Islands. Thus, it might be incorrect/misleading to throw them all together as "Malay as an official language" (as with "Hindustani", which for official purposes is practically split in "Hindi" and "Urdu"). @ Austronesier: I couldn't possibly do without asking your linguist opinion here about this most prominent example of Austronesian languages. Thanks in advance! Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 08:32, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Rename - Countries do not speak, people do.
Category:Countries and territories by official language seems to have examples of both forms. I think a group nom might be a good idea. -
jc37
13:47, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- @
Jc37 What kind of group nom do you mean? If you mean bundling all children of
Category:Countries and territories by official language for a CfR, I decided not to do that because the circumstances are often too different to treat them all in one go (this is where bundles often fail). I consciously CfR'd them all separately, in planned stages, to increase the likelihood of reaching consensus in each individual case. So far, that appears to work quite well.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
19:31, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- PS: Almost all children that haven't been renamed yet are currently in CfR. A few exceptions have been deliberatedly postponed until a later stage for reasons I can get into if you're really interested.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
19:34, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Ah, ok. Thanks for the update : ) -
jc37
09:07, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- @ Jc37 You're welcome. It would have been a good suggestion otherwise. :) Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 01:29, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Ah, ok. Thanks for the update : ) -
jc37
09:07, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- PS: Almost all children that haven't been renamed yet are currently in CfR. A few exceptions have been deliberatedly postponed until a later stage for reasons I can get into if you're really interested.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
19:34, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- @
Jc37 What kind of group nom do you mean? If you mean bundling all children of
Category:Countries and territories by official language for a CfR, I decided not to do that because the circumstances are often too different to treat them all in one go (this is where bundles often fail). I consciously CfR'd them all separately, in planned stages, to increase the likelihood of reaching consensus in each individual case. So far, that appears to work quite well.
Nederlandse Leeuw (
talk)
19:31, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- Rename and purge as needed to be less subjective. I'll defer to more knowledgable editors on including Indonesian. -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
03:53, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- I tagged Austronesier already, they are quite knowledgeable. Unfortunately also very busy atm. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 01:26, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge. –
Fayenatic
London
10:38, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Singapore religious cases to Category:Law about religion in Singapore
- Nominator's rationale: category name Foo country "religious cases" is unique. Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1-2 entries. Estopedist1 ( talk) 05:31, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. There is also not a global religious case law category, as far as I can see. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:04, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 19:36, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 7#Category:Welfare state in the United Kingdom
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. –
Fayenatic
London
13:58, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- Propose Deleting Category:Prix Louis Guilloux winners
- Nominator's rationale: WP:OCAWARD, WP:NONDEFINING
- The Louis-Guilloux Prize is a literary award from France given to individual books that reflect "the humane qualities of generous thought, refusing all dualism and all sacrifice of individuality in favour of ideological abstractions". This category groups authors who wrote the winning books but those biography articles don't treat this award as defining, generally listing it with other honours. The category contents are already listified right here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 00:43, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:47, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 19:38, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: Delete ( non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 19:23, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Per WP:C1, an empty category, WP:V, WP:DNWAUC, and presumably WP:OCAWARD
- Based on the parent category, I'm assuming that the Sahitya Akademi Bal Sahitya Puraskar Puraskar is an Indian literary award. (I Googled this and it's related to Sahitya Akademi but I'm not sure past that.) The only article in the category is Eli Ahmed which doesn't even mention thhe award--or Sahitya Akademi--so it should not be in the category. Indian topics are under-represented on English Wikipedia so this award may very well be notable, but the right place to add that content is in a list article with reliable sources. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 00:43, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
-
Comment: @
RevelationDirect, Hello. With regard to your proposal to remove the above category, I would like to comment that, I have created
Sahitya Akademi Bal Sahitya Puraskar and lists of recipients by languages. There is a bit of a mess in the title of the above category. Here the Puraskar is shown twice. If the category is to be retained, the title of the category has to be revised or the category has to be deleted and a new category Recipients of the Sahitya Akademi Bal Sahitya Puraskar or Recipients of the Bal Sahitya Puraskar has to be created.
- As i mentioned i created the list articles by languages. In which, 31 articles (mentioned below) are available where we can add the category. (Few have references and remaining, I have cross checked on Sahitya Akademi Website)
- Sudha Murty, Ramesh Parekh, Yoseph Macwan, Dhiruben Patel, Chandrakant Sheth, Hari Krishna Devsare, Bolwar Mahammad Kunhi, Na D'Souza, Sumatheendra Nadig, N. S. Lakshminarayan Bhat, Zareef Ahmad Zareef, S. Sivadas, N. P. Hafiz Mohamad, P. K. Gopi, Malayath Appunni, Gracy, Raghunath Paleri, Sethu (A. Sethumadhavan), Priya A. S., Dilip Prabhavalkar, Ratnakar Matkari, Dash Benhur, Karnail Singh Somal, Abhiraj Rajendra Mishra, H. R. Vishwasa, Sampadananda Mishra, Joba Murmu, M. L. Thangappa, Era Natarasan, Dasari Venkataramana.
- If the community decides to retain the category, then i will add it to above articles.
Snehrashmi (
talk)
07:35, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- @ Snehrashmi: Thank you very much for all your work! I would still favor removing the category as non-defining based on how the articles treat the awards but, if the community decides to keep, obviously it should be renamed. (Either way, we probably need a category to hold the lists.) I don't want to speak for the other editors below though so I'll ping them so they can re-evaluate their iVotes based on this new information. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 03:49, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
-
- Delete if only per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:48, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:SMALLCAT and WP:OCAWARD. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 19:37, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
- @ Nederlandse Leeuw and Marcocapelle: Another editor (not the category creator) has created a main article on the award since I nominated the category. Does that change either of your iVotes? - RevelationDirect ( talk) 03:49, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- It makes no difference, it is still a case of
WP:OCAWARD. Nice that there is an article though!
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:23, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- Which main article? There are lots of Lists of Sahitya Akademi Award winners. Do you mean Bal Sahitya Puraskar?
- Whatever the case, that means the category has effectively been Listified, doesn't it? All the more reason that it is ready for deletion. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 08:42, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- The main article is now named "
Bal Sahitya Puraskar". Yes, it's now listified and I also think the category should still be deleted. Thanks for confirming both of your earlier iVotes! -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
23:20, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- You're welcome, thanks for notifying us of the development. Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 01:25, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
- The main article is now named "
Bal Sahitya Puraskar". Yes, it's now listified and I also think the category should still be deleted. Thanks for confirming both of your earlier iVotes! -
RevelationDirect (
talk)
23:20, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- It makes no difference, it is still a case of
WP:OCAWARD. Nice that there is an article though!
Marcocapelle (
talk)
06:23, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.