- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. (non-admin closure) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mello hi! ( 投稿) 16:46, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
William Schiøpffe
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- William Schiøpffe ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Article fails WP:GNG and WP:NMUSIC. References are all links to databases, no independent coverage. Claim to notability is weak, they played music with some famous people but that doesn't make them notable. Searched online and couldn't find any other sources to make them notable. I would have sent this article to draft because there's a good chance this article can be made to pass GNG and SNG but there is a policy against sending articles older than 90 days to draft. Dr vulpes ( 💬 • 📝) 21:37, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Dr vulpes ( 💬 • 📝) 21:37, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Draftify Would prefer to send this to draft so it can be improved. Dr vulpes ( 💬 • 📝) 21:38, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Denmark. Shellwood ( talk) 21:57, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - just because Jazz musicians did not use to create perfumes, undress, did influencing on social media or try to design fashion (cf. pars pro toto Jennie (singer), Rosé_(singer),... and all the rest), just because they kept a low profile, doesn't lessen their impact on Jazz history. Notability used to be defined by sheer musical achievement. Like playing with the greatest, being part of the band, having their names on LPs. Just because WP is otherwise crowded with subcomplex pop musicians who just happen to keep a social media account shouldn't lead anyone to believe that bloated articles about the personal life of shortlived self-proclaimed or "produced" artists should constitute the standard. -- Kku ( talk) 08:30, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- I've been doing this for a long time and this is one of the most useless votes I've ever seen. Just because you don't like pop music, that doesn't mean a token pop singer isn't notable, and that logic accomplishes nothing for the present discussion on Mr. Schiøpffe. See WP:OTHERSTUFF and most of WP:ATA, for starters. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( TALK| CONTRIBS) 14:18, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- Not all jazz musicians are notable. This dude isn't Oscar Peterson. Oaktree b ( talk) 17:29, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Notable since he has an entry in Grove Music Online: https://doi.org/10.1093/gmo/9781561592630.article.J686900 Piecesofuk ( talk) 13:00, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete - The music directory mentioned by the previous voter is just a brief notice that Mr. Schiøpffe existed and that he has some credits. Yes, he played with lots of important people but notability is
not inherited from them. Mr. Schiøpffe is only visible in the credits for other people's work and that is not enough for his own article here. Meanwhile, the nominator's recommendation to draftify is okay, but consider whether future improvement is likely. ---
DOOMSDAYER520 (
TALK|
CONTRIBS) 14:24, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- 380 words is hardly a brief notice: "Schiöpffe was regarded as one of the best European drummers of his era" Piecesofuk ( talk) 16:55, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment It sounds like this guy is important and people believe he could pass GNG. That's why I wanted to draft this article and not delete it to give people time to improve the article and maybe find sources in Danish that I couldn't find. If we can agree to sending this to draft to be improved I'm willing to commit to doing the AfC review of it to bring it back to mainspace and ensure it doesn't get lost or forgotten. Dr vulpes ( 💬 • 📝) 19:01, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- Draftify as the existing references in the article are poor but the Groves reference is promising and so there is a possibility the article can be improved, imv Atlantic306 ( talk) 20:31, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:03, 24 August 2022 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 08:31, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
- Comment there is an IMDb article on him, [1] GoldenBootWizard276 ( talk) 08:49, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
- Draftify. Besides the Grove Music Online ref, which is short but SIGCOV, none of the other refs are reliable or significant. Only one ref isn't enough to meet WP:GNG or WP:NMUSIC, though a listing in the authoritative Grove probably means that this article has good potential (sadly, I I can't find any more refs online, but there's probably offline ones), so IMO a draftification seems suitable. VickKiang ( talk) 06:09, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- Weak keep: I feel draftification would be a dubious outcome here; if sufficient sources cannot be identified at AfD while the article is in mainspace, it would just be deferring a slide towards the draft being deleted out of sight. I am reluctant about deleting articles about subjects on which a standard work such as Grove has an article. The one recording under his own name (
"Drum Colours", 1957) has left little trace outside listings, but insofar as there is a bylined biography of the subject in Grove (albeit rather brief), I feel it indicates he had some prominence in the music scene around the Baltic, a view bolstered by him recording as part of the European AllStars (
[2]) as well as with various visiting musicians. On balance, I am inclined to think it is better to keep this article.
AllyD (
talk) 07:23, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
- If new references came to light during this process I would absolutely withdraw the nomination as I have in previous nominations. I have a real concern about there being non-english sources out there hence why I felt sending to draft would be a better outcome than just a delete. As it stands it looks like we aren't going to have consensus so the point is kinda moot. Dr vulpes ( 💬 • 📝) 07:32, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. (non-admin closure) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mello hi! ( 投稿) 16:46, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
William Schiøpffe
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- William Schiøpffe ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Article fails WP:GNG and WP:NMUSIC. References are all links to databases, no independent coverage. Claim to notability is weak, they played music with some famous people but that doesn't make them notable. Searched online and couldn't find any other sources to make them notable. I would have sent this article to draft because there's a good chance this article can be made to pass GNG and SNG but there is a policy against sending articles older than 90 days to draft. Dr vulpes ( 💬 • 📝) 21:37, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Dr vulpes ( 💬 • 📝) 21:37, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Draftify Would prefer to send this to draft so it can be improved. Dr vulpes ( 💬 • 📝) 21:38, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Denmark. Shellwood ( talk) 21:57, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - just because Jazz musicians did not use to create perfumes, undress, did influencing on social media or try to design fashion (cf. pars pro toto Jennie (singer), Rosé_(singer),... and all the rest), just because they kept a low profile, doesn't lessen their impact on Jazz history. Notability used to be defined by sheer musical achievement. Like playing with the greatest, being part of the band, having their names on LPs. Just because WP is otherwise crowded with subcomplex pop musicians who just happen to keep a social media account shouldn't lead anyone to believe that bloated articles about the personal life of shortlived self-proclaimed or "produced" artists should constitute the standard. -- Kku ( talk) 08:30, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- I've been doing this for a long time and this is one of the most useless votes I've ever seen. Just because you don't like pop music, that doesn't mean a token pop singer isn't notable, and that logic accomplishes nothing for the present discussion on Mr. Schiøpffe. See WP:OTHERSTUFF and most of WP:ATA, for starters. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( TALK| CONTRIBS) 14:18, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- Not all jazz musicians are notable. This dude isn't Oscar Peterson. Oaktree b ( talk) 17:29, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Notable since he has an entry in Grove Music Online: https://doi.org/10.1093/gmo/9781561592630.article.J686900 Piecesofuk ( talk) 13:00, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete - The music directory mentioned by the previous voter is just a brief notice that Mr. Schiøpffe existed and that he has some credits. Yes, he played with lots of important people but notability is
not inherited from them. Mr. Schiøpffe is only visible in the credits for other people's work and that is not enough for his own article here. Meanwhile, the nominator's recommendation to draftify is okay, but consider whether future improvement is likely. ---
DOOMSDAYER520 (
TALK|
CONTRIBS) 14:24, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- 380 words is hardly a brief notice: "Schiöpffe was regarded as one of the best European drummers of his era" Piecesofuk ( talk) 16:55, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment It sounds like this guy is important and people believe he could pass GNG. That's why I wanted to draft this article and not delete it to give people time to improve the article and maybe find sources in Danish that I couldn't find. If we can agree to sending this to draft to be improved I'm willing to commit to doing the AfC review of it to bring it back to mainspace and ensure it doesn't get lost or forgotten. Dr vulpes ( 💬 • 📝) 19:01, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- Draftify as the existing references in the article are poor but the Groves reference is promising and so there is a possibility the article can be improved, imv Atlantic306 ( talk) 20:31, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:03, 24 August 2022 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 08:31, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
- Comment there is an IMDb article on him, [1] GoldenBootWizard276 ( talk) 08:49, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
- Draftify. Besides the Grove Music Online ref, which is short but SIGCOV, none of the other refs are reliable or significant. Only one ref isn't enough to meet WP:GNG or WP:NMUSIC, though a listing in the authoritative Grove probably means that this article has good potential (sadly, I I can't find any more refs online, but there's probably offline ones), so IMO a draftification seems suitable. VickKiang ( talk) 06:09, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- Weak keep: I feel draftification would be a dubious outcome here; if sufficient sources cannot be identified at AfD while the article is in mainspace, it would just be deferring a slide towards the draft being deleted out of sight. I am reluctant about deleting articles about subjects on which a standard work such as Grove has an article. The one recording under his own name (
"Drum Colours", 1957) has left little trace outside listings, but insofar as there is a bylined biography of the subject in Grove (albeit rather brief), I feel it indicates he had some prominence in the music scene around the Baltic, a view bolstered by him recording as part of the European AllStars (
[2]) as well as with various visiting musicians. On balance, I am inclined to think it is better to keep this article.
AllyD (
talk) 07:23, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
- If new references came to light during this process I would absolutely withdraw the nomination as I have in previous nominations. I have a real concern about there being non-english sources out there hence why I felt sending to draft would be a better outcome than just a delete. As it stands it looks like we aren't going to have consensus so the point is kinda moot. Dr vulpes ( 💬 • 📝) 07:32, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.