- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep DavidLeighEllis ( talk) 00:32, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
Torres (musician)
- Torres (musician) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Does not meet WP:MUSIC, WP:BIO, or WP:GNG. Note that I have nominated her album, TORRES (Album). Watch that AFD, if it closes as "MERGE TO ARTIST" and this closes as "DELETE" there will be a problem. Similar notice placed on that AFD. davidwr/( talk)/( contribs) 19:24, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
- Keep I see at least a few decent sources, including a review from Pitchfork Media. Ten Pound Hammer • ( What did I screw up now?) 21:23, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
- Keep This musician meets at least 3 of the criteria from WP:MUSIC, several of the general criteria from WP:BIO, and ALL of the criteria from the "general notability guideline" on WP:GNG, I.E. the musician has been the subject multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent from the musician or ensemble itself. For examples of these reliable sources, please see the reference list on the page in question. Stomachworm88 ( talk) 21:38, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Tennessee-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 22:45, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 22:45, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
- Keep. Plenty of sources in the article point to this artist meeting WP:MUSICBIO and WP:GNG. — sparklism hey! 07:39, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
- Weak keep. Don't just say " Yes, it's notable, there are sources, it meets WP:MUSBIO", but examine each one in turn, which gives us:
- Native Issue 12 didn't load for me successfully. I think a better source is needed
- pigeonsandplanes - what makes this a reliable source?
- Lasko - a source defined but not used
- Pitchfork - actually a YouTube video, self-published
- The Deli - okay, local news coverage not a particularly great source to pass WP:GNG or WP:MUSBIO but does count
- abubaker - a source defined but not used
- In your speakers - what makes this a reliable source?
- Listen Before You Buy - this looks self-published and they'll put up just about any band, notable or otherwise
- 2 x Nashville Scene - okay
- songkick.com - what makes this a reliable source?
- 2 x Pitchfork reviews - okay
- Beats Per Minute, Drowned in Sound, Pretty Much Amazing - what makes these reliable sources?
- Album of the year - a list of user reviews. Self published source
- Adding that lot up, by my standards, gives you coverage in 5 reliable sources. That's just about enough to tip it into notability, particularly since the odds are that more sources will appear in time (but see WP:TOOSOON and WP:CRYSTAL). Despite what Stomachworm88 claimed above, the article meets none of the "free pass" criteria in WP:MUSBIO, since her album was self-published and has not charted, and her "tours" are not notable enough to be written about in Rolling Stone. On a side note, "Scott decidedly crafted the distinct sound of her debut album" is very much WP:POV, so I've copyedited the article to tone things down a bit. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 08:24, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
- Comment by nominator: It is my intent to revisit Ritchie333's work above (I did something similar for the album, see Talk:TORRES (Album). Who knows, I may wind up withdrawing this or, if I am not convinced, re-asserting that the person fails WP:Notability. It's obvious already that I didn't do my homework before nominating this, and for that I apologize. Trouts and wet noodles accepted. davidwr/( talk)/( contribs) 14:53, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
- according to WP:NMUSIC, a musician must meet at least one of the guidelines listed there in order for her to be considered notable. this musician meets at least two of them, IE #1 and #4. so slim yes, but passing yes. and at least two of the references, pitchfork media and drowned in sound are listed as reliable in WP:ALBUM/SOURCE. we must keep Stomachworm88 ( talk) 17:45, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
- Exactly how does this reach criteria #4? That's (imho) for people like
Daryl Stuermer, who, while never appearing as an official member of
Genesis and not playing on their albums, achieved notability by being part of the regular touring line-up.
Ritchie333
(talk)
(cont) 11:21, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
- ok maybe this musician does not meet criterion #4, but she still does definitely meet criterion #1, which is the most important criterion. thus this article is not a legitimate candidate for deletion and we must keep. Stomachworm88 ( talk) 21:59, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
- Exactly how does this reach criteria #4? That's (imho) for people like
Daryl Stuermer, who, while never appearing as an official member of
Genesis and not playing on their albums, achieved notability by being part of the regular touring line-up.
Ritchie333
(talk)
(cont) 11:21, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep DavidLeighEllis ( talk) 00:32, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
Torres (musician)
- Torres (musician) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Does not meet WP:MUSIC, WP:BIO, or WP:GNG. Note that I have nominated her album, TORRES (Album). Watch that AFD, if it closes as "MERGE TO ARTIST" and this closes as "DELETE" there will be a problem. Similar notice placed on that AFD. davidwr/( talk)/( contribs) 19:24, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
- Keep I see at least a few decent sources, including a review from Pitchfork Media. Ten Pound Hammer • ( What did I screw up now?) 21:23, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
- Keep This musician meets at least 3 of the criteria from WP:MUSIC, several of the general criteria from WP:BIO, and ALL of the criteria from the "general notability guideline" on WP:GNG, I.E. the musician has been the subject multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent from the musician or ensemble itself. For examples of these reliable sources, please see the reference list on the page in question. Stomachworm88 ( talk) 21:38, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Tennessee-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 22:45, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 22:45, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
- Keep. Plenty of sources in the article point to this artist meeting WP:MUSICBIO and WP:GNG. — sparklism hey! 07:39, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
- Weak keep. Don't just say " Yes, it's notable, there are sources, it meets WP:MUSBIO", but examine each one in turn, which gives us:
- Native Issue 12 didn't load for me successfully. I think a better source is needed
- pigeonsandplanes - what makes this a reliable source?
- Lasko - a source defined but not used
- Pitchfork - actually a YouTube video, self-published
- The Deli - okay, local news coverage not a particularly great source to pass WP:GNG or WP:MUSBIO but does count
- abubaker - a source defined but not used
- In your speakers - what makes this a reliable source?
- Listen Before You Buy - this looks self-published and they'll put up just about any band, notable or otherwise
- 2 x Nashville Scene - okay
- songkick.com - what makes this a reliable source?
- 2 x Pitchfork reviews - okay
- Beats Per Minute, Drowned in Sound, Pretty Much Amazing - what makes these reliable sources?
- Album of the year - a list of user reviews. Self published source
- Adding that lot up, by my standards, gives you coverage in 5 reliable sources. That's just about enough to tip it into notability, particularly since the odds are that more sources will appear in time (but see WP:TOOSOON and WP:CRYSTAL). Despite what Stomachworm88 claimed above, the article meets none of the "free pass" criteria in WP:MUSBIO, since her album was self-published and has not charted, and her "tours" are not notable enough to be written about in Rolling Stone. On a side note, "Scott decidedly crafted the distinct sound of her debut album" is very much WP:POV, so I've copyedited the article to tone things down a bit. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 08:24, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
- Comment by nominator: It is my intent to revisit Ritchie333's work above (I did something similar for the album, see Talk:TORRES (Album). Who knows, I may wind up withdrawing this or, if I am not convinced, re-asserting that the person fails WP:Notability. It's obvious already that I didn't do my homework before nominating this, and for that I apologize. Trouts and wet noodles accepted. davidwr/( talk)/( contribs) 14:53, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
- according to WP:NMUSIC, a musician must meet at least one of the guidelines listed there in order for her to be considered notable. this musician meets at least two of them, IE #1 and #4. so slim yes, but passing yes. and at least two of the references, pitchfork media and drowned in sound are listed as reliable in WP:ALBUM/SOURCE. we must keep Stomachworm88 ( talk) 17:45, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
- Exactly how does this reach criteria #4? That's (imho) for people like
Daryl Stuermer, who, while never appearing as an official member of
Genesis and not playing on their albums, achieved notability by being part of the regular touring line-up.
Ritchie333
(talk)
(cont) 11:21, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
- ok maybe this musician does not meet criterion #4, but she still does definitely meet criterion #1, which is the most important criterion. thus this article is not a legitimate candidate for deletion and we must keep. Stomachworm88 ( talk) 21:59, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
- Exactly how does this reach criteria #4? That's (imho) for people like
Daryl Stuermer, who, while never appearing as an official member of
Genesis and not playing on their albums, achieved notability by being part of the regular touring line-up.
Ritchie333
(talk)
(cont) 11:21, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.