- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to List of Legion of Super-Heroes enemies. The "keep" opinions assert the existence of coverage in reliable sources, but this view must be disregarded because these sources are neither cited in the article nor in this discussion. Sandstein 08:00, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
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- Time Trapper ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Prod that became a redirect, and after short while was restored to a full article. Comic book character. The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) requirement. WP:BEFORE did not reveal any significant English-language coverage on Gnews, Gbooks or Gscholar. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:11, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:11, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:11, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:11, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Recurring villain covered in numerous sources such as Comics through Time: A History of Icons, Idols, and Ideas. Should be kept for attribution, development, improvement and reference per policies including
WP:ATD;
WP:IMPERFECT;
WP:NOTPAPER and
WP:PRESERVE.
Andrew🐉(
talk)
10:08, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Can you name those other sources? The one you mention can be previewed on Google Books here and does not seem to discuss the subject in depth. He is mentioned on three pages, first in passing, and then twice, briefly, with pure PLOT summary and no analysis. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:58, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of Legion of Super-Heroes enemies, which contains a minimum of information on him. I don't see any evidence this character is notable outside of the fiction. Argento Surfer ( talk) 16:30, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect - agreed, to List of Legion of Super-Heroes enemies - GizzyCatBella 🍁 02:17, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DMySon 03:38, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DMySon 03:38, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of Legion of Super-Heroes enemies per others. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 11:44, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep.
Andrew is entirely correct. This character was the subject of extensive print commentary, particularly with regard to the subject of the mutable nature of DC Comics continuity. That this material is not available online is no reason to discount it, and a more carefully tailored GBooks search shows that the character is rather ubiquitous in discussions of both the underlying series and related matters. WP:FICTION states that "Articles on fiction elements are expected to cover more about 'real-world' aspects of the element, such as its development and reception", and that is precisely the sort of coverage that can be turned up.
The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong! (
talk)
00:33, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- Could you link to this "extensive print commentary"? So far all I see is
WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES. --
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
01:58, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- Can I link to the (offline) print sources? Could you ask a coherent question? Could you, as a first step, provide us with the actual searches you ran to determine there were no Gbooks and Gscholar results? Because if you're going to refuse to accord good faith to editors who disagree with you, you don't deserve to have your unsupported assertions accepted on faith, either.
The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong! (
talk)
03:50, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- I run numerous queries on Google Scholar/Book and News. And as you claim 'offline sources exist' but can't be even bothered to quote them, well... it seems quite clear who did BEFORE and who didn't. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:39, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- Can I link to the (offline) print sources? Could you ask a coherent question? Could you, as a first step, provide us with the actual searches you ran to determine there were no Gbooks and Gscholar results? Because if you're going to refuse to accord good faith to editors who disagree with you, you don't deserve to have your unsupported assertions accepted on faith, either.
The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong! (
talk)
03:50, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- Could you link to this "extensive print commentary"? So far all I see is
WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES. --
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
01:58, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to List of Legion of Super-Heroes enemies. The "keep" opinions assert the existence of coverage in reliable sources, but this view must be disregarded because these sources are neither cited in the article nor in this discussion. Sandstein 08:00, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Time Trapper ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Prod that became a redirect, and after short while was restored to a full article. Comic book character. The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) requirement. WP:BEFORE did not reveal any significant English-language coverage on Gnews, Gbooks or Gscholar. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:11, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:11, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:11, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:11, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Recurring villain covered in numerous sources such as Comics through Time: A History of Icons, Idols, and Ideas. Should be kept for attribution, development, improvement and reference per policies including
WP:ATD;
WP:IMPERFECT;
WP:NOTPAPER and
WP:PRESERVE.
Andrew🐉(
talk)
10:08, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Can you name those other sources? The one you mention can be previewed on Google Books here and does not seem to discuss the subject in depth. He is mentioned on three pages, first in passing, and then twice, briefly, with pure PLOT summary and no analysis. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:58, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of Legion of Super-Heroes enemies, which contains a minimum of information on him. I don't see any evidence this character is notable outside of the fiction. Argento Surfer ( talk) 16:30, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect - agreed, to List of Legion of Super-Heroes enemies - GizzyCatBella 🍁 02:17, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DMySon 03:38, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DMySon 03:38, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
- Redirect to List of Legion of Super-Heroes enemies per others. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 11:44, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
- Keep.
Andrew is entirely correct. This character was the subject of extensive print commentary, particularly with regard to the subject of the mutable nature of DC Comics continuity. That this material is not available online is no reason to discount it, and a more carefully tailored GBooks search shows that the character is rather ubiquitous in discussions of both the underlying series and related matters. WP:FICTION states that "Articles on fiction elements are expected to cover more about 'real-world' aspects of the element, such as its development and reception", and that is precisely the sort of coverage that can be turned up.
The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong! (
talk)
00:33, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- Could you link to this "extensive print commentary"? So far all I see is
WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES. --
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
01:58, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- Can I link to the (offline) print sources? Could you ask a coherent question? Could you, as a first step, provide us with the actual searches you ran to determine there were no Gbooks and Gscholar results? Because if you're going to refuse to accord good faith to editors who disagree with you, you don't deserve to have your unsupported assertions accepted on faith, either.
The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong! (
talk)
03:50, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- I run numerous queries on Google Scholar/Book and News. And as you claim 'offline sources exist' but can't be even bothered to quote them, well... it seems quite clear who did BEFORE and who didn't. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:39, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- Can I link to the (offline) print sources? Could you ask a coherent question? Could you, as a first step, provide us with the actual searches you ran to determine there were no Gbooks and Gscholar results? Because if you're going to refuse to accord good faith to editors who disagree with you, you don't deserve to have your unsupported assertions accepted on faith, either.
The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong! (
talk)
03:50, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- Could you link to this "extensive print commentary"? So far all I see is
WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES. --
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
01:58, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.