- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to RuPaul's Drag Race. Ignoring the obvious meatpuppets. Anything worth merging to the redirect target is still available from the article history. Randykitty ( talk) 17:09, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
Stacy Layne Matthews
 | If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
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- Stacy Layne Matthews ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Tenuous notability. Fails WP:BIO. Most of the sources are about series or host. scope_creep Talk 23:01, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
- Keep Wrong - This person is notable - They appeared on more than 1 television show, created music with other notable people and has a large social media following. Remove the tag. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ratherbe2000 ( talk • contribs)
- Delete appearing on multiple television shows is not a default showing of notability. No sources that show notability. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 02:19, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- There are other contestants from this show that have the same type of notability as this one, and she's done more than TV anyway. And no sources? No sources. There's 20 - about the same as most of the other queens (some higher placing ones have less actually) Please... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ratherbe2000 ( talk • contribs)
- Comment None of them are notable. I plan to put every one up for deletion, with exceptions. The idea that they shown to be filmed, and make them notable. No. They are BLP article and they need sources. scope_creep Talk 13:01, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- They are absolutely notable based just on "they shown to be filmed" and they have other levels of notability other than TV shows. Stop being difficult. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ratherbe2000 ( talk • contribs)
- There are thousands of other more contentious pages worthy of deletion, but your specific targetting of the drag queens of RuPaul's Drag Race reads as thinly veiled discrimination. As you are specifically targeting drag queens based off your inherent beliefs, this deletion should be void. You are not doing this to benefit Wikipedia but to instead further your own bias agenda against them. Joeylevn ( talk) 03:00, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- As a neutral comment, this AfD if successful should restore it as a redirect. Naraht ( talk) 15:32, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
Delete. I see passing mentions in the context of appearances on the show, but nothing that qualifies as substantive coverage. -- Kinu t/ c 21:41, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- Per the discussion below, additional sources appear to have been found, but I do not have the time to evaluate everything fairly. Thus, I am changing my !vote to an abstention. -- Kinu t/ c 15:59, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- After looking at the discussed sources and the article in its current state, I feel that the notability criteria are still not met. Nonetheless, as I have already stricken my original !vote, I will simply state that I have no prejudice toward a redirect to an appropriate article as discussed below. -- Kinu t/ c 19:47, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
- Keep As a notable trans activist and drag queen, she is responsible for songs and spinoff episodes of her persona. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zombiewaldo ( talk • contribs) 01:03, 18 December 2018 (UTC) — Zombiewaldo ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Zombiewaldo ( talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 02:18, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 02:18, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Theatre-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 02:18, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Keep One of the most notable people to ever appear on Rupaul's Drag Race — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.7.92.205 ( talk) 11:40, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Keep This person is notable because of their media following, their activism and their recognition as a trans person of notice. Stacy appeared in multiple TV shows, produced content in multiple venues and is a recognized voice for both the trans and the drag communities. Simonecv ( talk) 02:27, 18 December 2018 (UTC) — Simonecv ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Simonecv ( talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.
- Since the article does not document the extent of their activism, that assertion can be struck. And where is their recognition as a trans person described? Quit loudly claiming things without adding cites. Shenme ( talk) 03:35, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Keep It has become clear that this cause for deletion is fueled by an inherent prejudice and discrimination against the drag queens of RuPaul's Drag Race. There are thousands of other more contentious pages worthy of deletion, but the specific targetting of the drag queens of RuPaul's Drag Race reads as thinly veiled discrimination. This deletion is not being proposed to benefit Wikipedia but to instead further a bias agenda against them. Therefore the cause for deletion is void. This figure has a notable enough career to have a wikipedia page which provides easy and accessible information on her career and activism. Joeylevn ( talk) 03:00, 18 December 2018 (UTC) — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Joeylevn ( talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion. Canvassed to this discussion? I'm a regular editor to all things related to RPDR. There are no grounds for this concern. Your argument is lacking. Joeylevn ( talk)
- Keep This person is a world famous entertainer and television personality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.176.247.176 ( talk) 03:16, 18 December 2018 (UTC) — 86.176.247.176 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that 86.176.247.176 ( talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.
- Keep There are less notable entertainers with pages Beautynumber2 ( talk) 04:56, 18 December 2018 (UTC) — Beautynumber2 ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Beautynumber2 ( talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.
- Comment I dont care what you say. The WP Afd doesnt count keep votes, it is a discussion, only a discussion. It is of no concern to me. Wikipedia is in the business of seeking impartial, disinterested third-party reliable sources. This article doesnt achieve that standard per WP:BIO. It is rank. scope_creep Talk 10:56, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- The best way to keep the article is to find a bunch of WP:SECONDARY sources. scope_creep Talk 10:57, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
You are not distinterested or third-party though. Joeylevn ( talk)
Weak Delete RedirectKeep or draftify per Naraht to allow author to find more reliable sources;most of these don't seem to be really sufficient.But, wow, this is clearly canvassing, and apparently somewhere outside of WP. Not cool. valereee ( talk) 13:34, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- There is a thread on the RuPaul's Drag Race subreddit about this AfD, which you can read here. Aoba47 ( talk) 21:07, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. valereee ( talk) 15:01, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Comment I'd like to just make sure everyone is aware that this topic might be at risk for brigading Oath2order (talk) 22:52, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- With comments there like "How do we destroy this user's life?" I'm just not appreciating the 'keeps' ... Shenme ( talk) 06:21, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- Comment I've gone through every reference. There are three that could show notability. The Vancouver Magazine reference is about Matthews. The EW.com "How Precious" piece is about Matthews. The VH1 News piece is about Matthews. So that's three, which maybe is enough. There are two that might be also usable to show notability -- Instinct Magazine called her the "best queen" and "the star of the entire series" here but I wasn't sure of that as a reliable source. Ditto The WOW Report, here which highlighted her as one of a series of posts about "celebrities" in attendance, also not sure of that source. The remainder are either own sources, blogs, or video clips of interviews/panel discussions/songs. valereee ( talk) 11:13, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- Joeylevn Instead of impugning people's motivations, find some sources and edit the article. You've never even edited this article, not even a single edit. That's how you save an article from AfD: you go find significant coverage in reliable sources and you insert it into the article. You aren't new at WP like most of these other keeps. You understand how this works. If this is someone who is notable, we need to prove notability, not slander other editors in the AfD. Scope creep's assertion is that someone with an agenda has made articles for every contestant on Drag Race, whether or not they're truly notable, and judging by the show's article he appears to have a very good point. If this one is one of the truly notable ones, find some sources. valereee ( talk) 11:32, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- Comment The band that Stacy Layne Matthews is in, is called AAA Girls. Their first album has 700k plays on Spotify, that is substantial is more than enought for to estalish the bona fides, if suitable references can found. scope_creep Talk 13:08, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- scope_creep I don't think she's in that band -- she was a featured artist in some of their recordings. valereee ( talk) 13:36, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- Comment Okay, so in June 2017 Thrillist, calling Drag Race "the closest gay culture gets to a sports league," ranked SLM #63
here of the show's then-113 contestants (very short mention). I'm not sure how to interpret that, though. Is it synthesis to argue that if Drag Race is gay culture's sports, that automatically means some number of the most-notable contestants are automatically notable even if by typical WP standards their notability might be questioned? I agree with the nom that not ALL contestants can possibly be notable, but maybe three instances of significant coverage in mainstream media (which I detailed above) are enough to pass notability?
valereee (
talk)
15:15, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- @
Valereee: The only sources that establish notability in this article is the
Gay Times and
Entertainment Weekly, the rest are just fluff sources, meant to make it seem that the article is notable.--
Biografer (
talk)
16:40, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- @
Biografer: That Gay Times article called her legendary. Is it possible that this person is notable enough in the gay community that she's notable enough? The Vancouver Magazine and VH1 pieces I thought were okay, too -- you disagree?
valereee (
talk)
17:05, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- @ Valereee: No. I just didn't noticed them in the wave of WOW and other non notable sources. :)-- Biografer ( talk) 17:10, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- @
Biografer: That Gay Times article called her legendary. Is it possible that this person is notable enough in the gay community that she's notable enough? The Vancouver Magazine and VH1 pieces I thought were okay, too -- you disagree?
valereee (
talk)
17:05, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- @
Valereee: The only sources that establish notability in this article is the
Gay Times and
Entertainment Weekly, the rest are just fluff sources, meant to make it seem that the article is notable.--
Biografer (
talk)
16:40, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- Keep: Notable trans activist and well known drag queen. Plenty of sources available on Stacy, more now considering her recent appearance on the current season of ALL Stars. Brocicle ( talk) 18:26, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Linguist111 my talk page 07:35, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Linguist111 my talk page 07:35, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
- Keep I think that the sources mentioned by valereee, The Vancouver Magazine, the EW.com piece, and the VH1 News are enough to establish WP:GNG. It also appears that she has a substantial fan base. RebeccaGreen ( talk) 11:48, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Keep Many of the articles are not just passing mentions and are substantial for GNG as large and respected publications. Passes GNG easily. –– Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs) 10:58, 31 December 2018 (UTC)STRIKING OUT PREVIOUS VOTE IN FAVOR OF A REDIRECT to where it was originally at RuPaul's Drag Race#Season 3 (2011), after reading new arguments I am persuaded to change my vote. The canvassing has gotten out of hand as well. –– Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs) 06:32, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 13:02, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Comment scope creep I'm in complete sympathy with your desire to AfD any of these that aren't notable, but I'm wondering if in this case you might have chosen at random one that actually was notable? valereee ( talk) 13:39, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Not at random, no. I review articles as part of
WP:NPP review process. It was on the NPP queue waiting for review, and I reviewed it. This is one about 100-200 odd that I reviewed over a 2-3 day period, and one of about 10 or 20 or so articles I sent to Afd, that I thought were non notable.
scope_creep
Talk
15:03, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Happy New Year.
scope_creep
Talk
15:05, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry scope creep that was poor word choice on my part -- I didn't actually mean to suggest you chose it literally at random. I stand corrected and apologize. :) And Happy New Year to you too! valereee ( talk) 17:59, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Happy New Year.
scope_creep
Talk
15:05, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Not at random, no. I review articles as part of
WP:NPP review process. It was on the NPP queue waiting for review, and I reviewed it. This is one about 100-200 odd that I reviewed over a 2-3 day period, and one of about 10 or 20 or so articles I sent to Afd, that I thought were non notable.
scope_creep
Talk
15:03, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Redirect to RuPaul's Drag Race. A source analysis which I shall provide below shows she's not really notable outside the series. Most of the sources cited are independent. I can't comment on their reliability because I'm unfamiliar with them. The significance of the coverage they give to her is questionable: they heavily mention her, but it is seemingly always in the context of her being on the RuPaul show, leading me to believe this is a case of passing notability, and a probably failure of WP:BLP1E. However, redirects are cheap, so pointing it to the TV show is probably the best bet. SITH (talk) 16:56, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Edit: I also want to point out that a lot, but not all, of the keep !votes appear to have been directed by a
Reddit mob.
SITH
(talk)
16:59, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Comment It would seem to me that by definition, both being a contestant on season 3 of RuPaul's Drag race and being on All Stars 4 seven years later, by definition is not BLP1E.
- Edit: I also want to point out that a lot, but not all, of the keep !votes appear to have been directed by a
Reddit mob.
SITH
(talk)
16:59, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Comment on relist – Nearly every vote and reason is for keep and it seems clear cut now. I'm surprised a second relist was done. –– Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs) 23:30, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
-
Redditaddict69 many of the keeps were clearly canvassing from Reddit. That doesn't really help get to consensus. It makes the opinions of anyone who comes in here without a significant AfD history look suspicious.
valereee (
talk)
23:37, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- @ Valereee: oh, my bad. I wasn’t aware of that. I know my username literally has Reddit in it but I do believe this is a keep. Didn’t see that post til just now. –– Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs) 11:24, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
-
Redditaddict69 many of the keeps were clearly canvassing from Reddit. That doesn't really help get to consensus. It makes the opinions of anyone who comes in here without a significant AfD history look suspicious.
valereee (
talk)
23:37, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
list of North Carolina-related deletion discussions. ––
Redditaddict69
(talk)
(contribs)
14:15, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
- Redditaddict69 No worries, I checked your AfD history when you first posted (lol, in no small part due to your username) so I knew you did have a significant AfD history and probably weren't one of those canvassed in from Reddit. So when you posted the second time, I knew it had to mean you hadn't seen the comments about the canvassing. It's just that there's been an article created for almost every contestant on RuPaul's Drag Race, and of course not ALL 150+ of them can be notable. This one I think is at least borderline, based on the three reliable sources with significant coverage. valereee ( talk) 14:26, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
- Delete - This page does not pass
WP:GNG. At best, this should redirect to the television show.
Skirts89 (
talk)
19:03, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
- Comment CharmayneBakke is making the same mistake many on the Reddit canvassing page have made -- they're looking at User:Johnpacklambert for some reason. JohnPackLambert didn't propose this article for deletion, they just supported the deletion. The page was nom'd by User:Scope creep who has ZERO on their page that would indicated homophobia. valereee ( talk) 17:07, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
Ugh, Scope Creep, are we really removing comments? I know it was a new account with few edits, all since this started, but I don't like seeing stuff removed once it's here. valereee ( talk) 17:09, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
Keep - I'm sorry that I accused the wrong person, but I still think the page should be kept because the person in question is known for more than just Drag Race, has a social media following in the 6-digits with verification, and largely connected to other notable people, in or out of Drag Race. CharmayneBakke ( Talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:13, 2 January 2019 (UTC)sock vote struck.-- Bbb23 ( talk) 18:36, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
-
CharmayneBakke what we need to see is someone saying, in a reliable source, that Matthews' social media following is larger than usual in the gay community or among drag queens. Notability has to have a source. You telling us it's large isn't enough; we need a source.
valereee (
talk)
17:17, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
- This isn't a reliable source, but just for making a point -- apparently Matthews' Instagram followers put her at #92 among the show's alums. That would make her not even notable among that group, much less among the larger groups of 'gay community' or even 'drag queens.'
here So even trying to find ANY source anywhere, I'm not finding that she seems to have an unusually large social following.
valereee (
talk)
17:32, 2 January 2019 (UTC)−
- Just as a note, for comparison, there are about 130 queens total who have been on RuPaul's drag race. (10 seasons, most of which have had either 12,13 or 14 queens). Her season had 13 contestants and she finished 8th, so her 92nd place seems actually low for a queen who had that many episodes of being on screen. Not all of the queens who have been on RPDR are notable in my opinion. Whether this one is, I honestly haven't decided. Naraht ( talk) 18:47, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
- This isn't a reliable source, but just for making a point -- apparently Matthews' Instagram followers put her at #92 among the show's alums. That would make her not even notable among that group, much less among the larger groups of 'gay community' or even 'drag queens.'
here So even trying to find ANY source anywhere, I'm not finding that she seems to have an unusually large social following.
valereee (
talk)
17:32, 2 January 2019 (UTC)−
-
CharmayneBakke what we need to see is someone saying, in a reliable source, that Matthews' social media following is larger than usual in the gay community or among drag queens. Notability has to have a source. You telling us it's large isn't enough; we need a source.
valereee (
talk)
17:17, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
- Comment – See WP:BLP1E – Does this apply here? She/he is only notable for that one appearance on Season 3? –– Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs) 06:54, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
- Keep. Canvassing aside, there seems to be just enough coverage to establish notability. This is definitely not a BLP1E situation, because we have coverage of not just her appearance on season 3 of Drag Race, but also her return years later for All Stars, her appearance on Teen Mom, and a live performance. -- RL0919 ( talk) 03:46, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
- Delete minor appearances only. The rest of it is just their PR, as usual with entertainers. A infinite number of PR placements in that or other field still = zero. DGG ( talk ) 04:22, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to RuPaul's Drag Race. Ignoring the obvious meatpuppets. Anything worth merging to the redirect target is still available from the article history. Randykitty ( talk) 17:09, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
Stacy Layne Matthews
|
| If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has
policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.
However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts:{{subst:
spa|username}}; suspected
canvassed users: {{subst:
canvassed|username}}; accounts blocked for
sockpuppetry: {{subst:
csm|username}} or {{subst:
csp|username}}. |
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Stacy Layne Matthews ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Tenuous notability. Fails WP:BIO. Most of the sources are about series or host. scope_creep Talk 23:01, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
- Keep Wrong - This person is notable - They appeared on more than 1 television show, created music with other notable people and has a large social media following. Remove the tag. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ratherbe2000 ( talk • contribs)
- Delete appearing on multiple television shows is not a default showing of notability. No sources that show notability. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 02:19, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- There are other contestants from this show that have the same type of notability as this one, and she's done more than TV anyway. And no sources? No sources. There's 20 - about the same as most of the other queens (some higher placing ones have less actually) Please... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ratherbe2000 ( talk • contribs)
- Comment None of them are notable. I plan to put every one up for deletion, with exceptions. The idea that they shown to be filmed, and make them notable. No. They are BLP article and they need sources. scope_creep Talk 13:01, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- They are absolutely notable based just on "they shown to be filmed" and they have other levels of notability other than TV shows. Stop being difficult. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ratherbe2000 ( talk • contribs)
- There are thousands of other more contentious pages worthy of deletion, but your specific targetting of the drag queens of RuPaul's Drag Race reads as thinly veiled discrimination. As you are specifically targeting drag queens based off your inherent beliefs, this deletion should be void. You are not doing this to benefit Wikipedia but to instead further your own bias agenda against them. Joeylevn ( talk) 03:00, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- As a neutral comment, this AfD if successful should restore it as a redirect. Naraht ( talk) 15:32, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
Delete. I see passing mentions in the context of appearances on the show, but nothing that qualifies as substantive coverage. -- Kinu t/ c 21:41, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- Per the discussion below, additional sources appear to have been found, but I do not have the time to evaluate everything fairly. Thus, I am changing my !vote to an abstention. -- Kinu t/ c 15:59, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- After looking at the discussed sources and the article in its current state, I feel that the notability criteria are still not met. Nonetheless, as I have already stricken my original !vote, I will simply state that I have no prejudice toward a redirect to an appropriate article as discussed below. -- Kinu t/ c 19:47, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
- Keep As a notable trans activist and drag queen, she is responsible for songs and spinoff episodes of her persona. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zombiewaldo ( talk • contribs) 01:03, 18 December 2018 (UTC) — Zombiewaldo ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Zombiewaldo ( talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 02:18, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 02:18, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Theatre-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 02:18, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Keep One of the most notable people to ever appear on Rupaul's Drag Race — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.7.92.205 ( talk) 11:40, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Keep This person is notable because of their media following, their activism and their recognition as a trans person of notice. Stacy appeared in multiple TV shows, produced content in multiple venues and is a recognized voice for both the trans and the drag communities. Simonecv ( talk) 02:27, 18 December 2018 (UTC) — Simonecv ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Simonecv ( talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.
- Since the article does not document the extent of their activism, that assertion can be struck. And where is their recognition as a trans person described? Quit loudly claiming things without adding cites. Shenme ( talk) 03:35, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Keep It has become clear that this cause for deletion is fueled by an inherent prejudice and discrimination against the drag queens of RuPaul's Drag Race. There are thousands of other more contentious pages worthy of deletion, but the specific targetting of the drag queens of RuPaul's Drag Race reads as thinly veiled discrimination. This deletion is not being proposed to benefit Wikipedia but to instead further a bias agenda against them. Therefore the cause for deletion is void. This figure has a notable enough career to have a wikipedia page which provides easy and accessible information on her career and activism. Joeylevn ( talk) 03:00, 18 December 2018 (UTC) — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Joeylevn ( talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion. Canvassed to this discussion? I'm a regular editor to all things related to RPDR. There are no grounds for this concern. Your argument is lacking. Joeylevn ( talk)
- Keep This person is a world famous entertainer and television personality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.176.247.176 ( talk) 03:16, 18 December 2018 (UTC) — 86.176.247.176 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that 86.176.247.176 ( talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.
- Keep There are less notable entertainers with pages Beautynumber2 ( talk) 04:56, 18 December 2018 (UTC) — Beautynumber2 ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Beautynumber2 ( talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.
- Comment I dont care what you say. The WP Afd doesnt count keep votes, it is a discussion, only a discussion. It is of no concern to me. Wikipedia is in the business of seeking impartial, disinterested third-party reliable sources. This article doesnt achieve that standard per WP:BIO. It is rank. scope_creep Talk 10:56, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- The best way to keep the article is to find a bunch of WP:SECONDARY sources. scope_creep Talk 10:57, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
You are not distinterested or third-party though. Joeylevn ( talk)
Weak Delete RedirectKeep or draftify per Naraht to allow author to find more reliable sources;most of these don't seem to be really sufficient.But, wow, this is clearly canvassing, and apparently somewhere outside of WP. Not cool. valereee ( talk) 13:34, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- There is a thread on the RuPaul's Drag Race subreddit about this AfD, which you can read here. Aoba47 ( talk) 21:07, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. valereee ( talk) 15:01, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- Comment I'd like to just make sure everyone is aware that this topic might be at risk for brigading Oath2order (talk) 22:52, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
- With comments there like "How do we destroy this user's life?" I'm just not appreciating the 'keeps' ... Shenme ( talk) 06:21, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- Comment I've gone through every reference. There are three that could show notability. The Vancouver Magazine reference is about Matthews. The EW.com "How Precious" piece is about Matthews. The VH1 News piece is about Matthews. So that's three, which maybe is enough. There are two that might be also usable to show notability -- Instinct Magazine called her the "best queen" and "the star of the entire series" here but I wasn't sure of that as a reliable source. Ditto The WOW Report, here which highlighted her as one of a series of posts about "celebrities" in attendance, also not sure of that source. The remainder are either own sources, blogs, or video clips of interviews/panel discussions/songs. valereee ( talk) 11:13, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- Joeylevn Instead of impugning people's motivations, find some sources and edit the article. You've never even edited this article, not even a single edit. That's how you save an article from AfD: you go find significant coverage in reliable sources and you insert it into the article. You aren't new at WP like most of these other keeps. You understand how this works. If this is someone who is notable, we need to prove notability, not slander other editors in the AfD. Scope creep's assertion is that someone with an agenda has made articles for every contestant on Drag Race, whether or not they're truly notable, and judging by the show's article he appears to have a very good point. If this one is one of the truly notable ones, find some sources. valereee ( talk) 11:32, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- Comment The band that Stacy Layne Matthews is in, is called AAA Girls. Their first album has 700k plays on Spotify, that is substantial is more than enought for to estalish the bona fides, if suitable references can found. scope_creep Talk 13:08, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- scope_creep I don't think she's in that band -- she was a featured artist in some of their recordings. valereee ( talk) 13:36, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- Comment Okay, so in June 2017 Thrillist, calling Drag Race "the closest gay culture gets to a sports league," ranked SLM #63
here of the show's then-113 contestants (very short mention). I'm not sure how to interpret that, though. Is it synthesis to argue that if Drag Race is gay culture's sports, that automatically means some number of the most-notable contestants are automatically notable even if by typical WP standards their notability might be questioned? I agree with the nom that not ALL contestants can possibly be notable, but maybe three instances of significant coverage in mainstream media (which I detailed above) are enough to pass notability?
valereee (
talk)
15:15, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
- @
Valereee: The only sources that establish notability in this article is the
Gay Times and
Entertainment Weekly, the rest are just fluff sources, meant to make it seem that the article is notable.--
Biografer (
talk)
16:40, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- @
Biografer: That Gay Times article called her legendary. Is it possible that this person is notable enough in the gay community that she's notable enough? The Vancouver Magazine and VH1 pieces I thought were okay, too -- you disagree?
valereee (
talk)
17:05, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- @ Valereee: No. I just didn't noticed them in the wave of WOW and other non notable sources. :)-- Biografer ( talk) 17:10, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- @
Biografer: That Gay Times article called her legendary. Is it possible that this person is notable enough in the gay community that she's notable enough? The Vancouver Magazine and VH1 pieces I thought were okay, too -- you disagree?
valereee (
talk)
17:05, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- @
Valereee: The only sources that establish notability in this article is the
Gay Times and
Entertainment Weekly, the rest are just fluff sources, meant to make it seem that the article is notable.--
Biografer (
talk)
16:40, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- Keep: Notable trans activist and well known drag queen. Plenty of sources available on Stacy, more now considering her recent appearance on the current season of ALL Stars. Brocicle ( talk) 18:26, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Linguist111 my talk page 07:35, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Linguist111 my talk page 07:35, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
- Keep I think that the sources mentioned by valereee, The Vancouver Magazine, the EW.com piece, and the VH1 News are enough to establish WP:GNG. It also appears that she has a substantial fan base. RebeccaGreen ( talk) 11:48, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Keep Many of the articles are not just passing mentions and are substantial for GNG as large and respected publications. Passes GNG easily. –– Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs) 10:58, 31 December 2018 (UTC)STRIKING OUT PREVIOUS VOTE IN FAVOR OF A REDIRECT to where it was originally at RuPaul's Drag Race#Season 3 (2011), after reading new arguments I am persuaded to change my vote. The canvassing has gotten out of hand as well. –– Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs) 06:32, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 13:02, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Comment scope creep I'm in complete sympathy with your desire to AfD any of these that aren't notable, but I'm wondering if in this case you might have chosen at random one that actually was notable? valereee ( talk) 13:39, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Not at random, no. I review articles as part of
WP:NPP review process. It was on the NPP queue waiting for review, and I reviewed it. This is one about 100-200 odd that I reviewed over a 2-3 day period, and one of about 10 or 20 or so articles I sent to Afd, that I thought were non notable.
scope_creep
Talk
15:03, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Happy New Year.
scope_creep
Talk
15:05, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry scope creep that was poor word choice on my part -- I didn't actually mean to suggest you chose it literally at random. I stand corrected and apologize. :) And Happy New Year to you too! valereee ( talk) 17:59, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Happy New Year.
scope_creep
Talk
15:05, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Not at random, no. I review articles as part of
WP:NPP review process. It was on the NPP queue waiting for review, and I reviewed it. This is one about 100-200 odd that I reviewed over a 2-3 day period, and one of about 10 or 20 or so articles I sent to Afd, that I thought were non notable.
scope_creep
Talk
15:03, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Redirect to RuPaul's Drag Race. A source analysis which I shall provide below shows she's not really notable outside the series. Most of the sources cited are independent. I can't comment on their reliability because I'm unfamiliar with them. The significance of the coverage they give to her is questionable: they heavily mention her, but it is seemingly always in the context of her being on the RuPaul show, leading me to believe this is a case of passing notability, and a probably failure of WP:BLP1E. However, redirects are cheap, so pointing it to the TV show is probably the best bet. SITH (talk) 16:56, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Edit: I also want to point out that a lot, but not all, of the keep !votes appear to have been directed by a
Reddit mob.
SITH
(talk)
16:59, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Comment It would seem to me that by definition, both being a contestant on season 3 of RuPaul's Drag race and being on All Stars 4 seven years later, by definition is not BLP1E.
- Edit: I also want to point out that a lot, but not all, of the keep !votes appear to have been directed by a
Reddit mob.
SITH
(talk)
16:59, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Comment on relist – Nearly every vote and reason is for keep and it seems clear cut now. I'm surprised a second relist was done. –– Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs) 23:30, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
-
Redditaddict69 many of the keeps were clearly canvassing from Reddit. That doesn't really help get to consensus. It makes the opinions of anyone who comes in here without a significant AfD history look suspicious.
valereee (
talk)
23:37, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- @ Valereee: oh, my bad. I wasn’t aware of that. I know my username literally has Reddit in it but I do believe this is a keep. Didn’t see that post til just now. –– Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs) 11:24, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
-
Redditaddict69 many of the keeps were clearly canvassing from Reddit. That doesn't really help get to consensus. It makes the opinions of anyone who comes in here without a significant AfD history look suspicious.
valereee (
talk)
23:37, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
list of North Carolina-related deletion discussions. ––
Redditaddict69
(talk)
(contribs)
14:15, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
- Redditaddict69 No worries, I checked your AfD history when you first posted (lol, in no small part due to your username) so I knew you did have a significant AfD history and probably weren't one of those canvassed in from Reddit. So when you posted the second time, I knew it had to mean you hadn't seen the comments about the canvassing. It's just that there's been an article created for almost every contestant on RuPaul's Drag Race, and of course not ALL 150+ of them can be notable. This one I think is at least borderline, based on the three reliable sources with significant coverage. valereee ( talk) 14:26, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
- Delete - This page does not pass
WP:GNG. At best, this should redirect to the television show.
Skirts89 (
talk)
19:03, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
- Comment CharmayneBakke is making the same mistake many on the Reddit canvassing page have made -- they're looking at User:Johnpacklambert for some reason. JohnPackLambert didn't propose this article for deletion, they just supported the deletion. The page was nom'd by User:Scope creep who has ZERO on their page that would indicated homophobia. valereee ( talk) 17:07, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
Ugh, Scope Creep, are we really removing comments? I know it was a new account with few edits, all since this started, but I don't like seeing stuff removed once it's here. valereee ( talk) 17:09, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
Keep - I'm sorry that I accused the wrong person, but I still think the page should be kept because the person in question is known for more than just Drag Race, has a social media following in the 6-digits with verification, and largely connected to other notable people, in or out of Drag Race. CharmayneBakke ( Talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:13, 2 January 2019 (UTC)sock vote struck.-- Bbb23 ( talk) 18:36, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
-
CharmayneBakke what we need to see is someone saying, in a reliable source, that Matthews' social media following is larger than usual in the gay community or among drag queens. Notability has to have a source. You telling us it's large isn't enough; we need a source.
valereee (
talk)
17:17, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
- This isn't a reliable source, but just for making a point -- apparently Matthews' Instagram followers put her at #92 among the show's alums. That would make her not even notable among that group, much less among the larger groups of 'gay community' or even 'drag queens.'
here So even trying to find ANY source anywhere, I'm not finding that she seems to have an unusually large social following.
valereee (
talk)
17:32, 2 January 2019 (UTC)−
- Just as a note, for comparison, there are about 130 queens total who have been on RuPaul's drag race. (10 seasons, most of which have had either 12,13 or 14 queens). Her season had 13 contestants and she finished 8th, so her 92nd place seems actually low for a queen who had that many episodes of being on screen. Not all of the queens who have been on RPDR are notable in my opinion. Whether this one is, I honestly haven't decided. Naraht ( talk) 18:47, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
- This isn't a reliable source, but just for making a point -- apparently Matthews' Instagram followers put her at #92 among the show's alums. That would make her not even notable among that group, much less among the larger groups of 'gay community' or even 'drag queens.'
here So even trying to find ANY source anywhere, I'm not finding that she seems to have an unusually large social following.
valereee (
talk)
17:32, 2 January 2019 (UTC)−
-
CharmayneBakke what we need to see is someone saying, in a reliable source, that Matthews' social media following is larger than usual in the gay community or among drag queens. Notability has to have a source. You telling us it's large isn't enough; we need a source.
valereee (
talk)
17:17, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
- Comment – See WP:BLP1E – Does this apply here? She/he is only notable for that one appearance on Season 3? –– Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs) 06:54, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
- Keep. Canvassing aside, there seems to be just enough coverage to establish notability. This is definitely not a BLP1E situation, because we have coverage of not just her appearance on season 3 of Drag Race, but also her return years later for All Stars, her appearance on Teen Mom, and a live performance. -- RL0919 ( talk) 03:46, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
- Delete minor appearances only. The rest of it is just their PR, as usual with entertainers. A infinite number of PR placements in that or other field still = zero. DGG ( talk ) 04:22, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.