- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Happy to restore the article for the purpose of merging content, if desired. —ScottyWong— 19:02, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
Santiago Porteiro
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- Santiago Porteiro ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Doesn't meet WP:GNG or WP:NMOTORSPORT. He competed in Formula 1 feeder series but didn't make it to International Formula 3000 (which was the GP2 Series' predecessor at the time for NMOTORSPORT Criteria 2). I wasn't able to find anything in my searches besides database entries, passing mentions in the race recaps, and a single mention in one dubious source about opening a new team for Spanish F4 2017 (which didn't even happen). Jovanmilic97 ( talk) 09:20, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Motorsport, and Spain. Jovanmilic97 ( talk) 09:20, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment - Alright alright alright... let me set this straight because I think you're getting a lot of stuff mixed up. First of all, Criteria 2 of WP:NMOTORSPORT should not and does not mean exclusively F3000/GP2/F2. These are just the main series the FIA favours as F1's primary feeder series, which doesn't mean there weren't more. Wikipedia is not the FIA's sock puppet so there is no reason to ignore the likes of the Trophées de France, the always-confused British F1, British Formula 3000, Auto GP, MSV F2 or most importantly Formula Renault 3.5. These were all "top-level feeder series" by definition, while not necessarily equally notable. Now, FR3.5 was essentially as important as GP2 in this era, in fact taking more drivers directly to F1, and it is where Santi Porteiro (that's his WP:COMMONNAME and the name with which you'll find more coverage of him) raced in. Or rather, in its predecessor, the World Series by Nissan—only difference with the former being the promoter, Jaime Alguersuari Sr.'s RPM Racing. I don't think this makes him notable, especially as his results were poor, but it's not as if he didn't make it to an important championship... The thing with Santi is his article isn't updated. He's not just a (former) racing driver, he's currently a decently-respected driver coach and manager, as well as the founder of Porteiro Motorsport (together with his more successful brother Félix Porteiro). The team has raced in the European F3 Open (present-day Euroformula) and its parent series International GT Open, and were indeed planning an expansion to F4 but backed out of it. However, what they're most known for is their collection of cars for use in private or public test days. They own cars from GT3, GT4 (primarily Mercedes), GP2 (both /08 and /11 I believe), GP3, 3.5, Regional, F4 and even World Series Lights (funnily enough, the series Santi won)... and they're quite busy testing them all year long. They've got deals going on with various F2/F3 teams (e.g. Campos and Charouz) and most of their drivers (Bolukbasi, Caldwell, Pizzi, Martí this year) prepare their seasons testing for Porteiro. So... to summarise: this is Santi's business now, it's pretty big and it's what he and Félix are known for in the industry. He is not a random, retired racing driver that has seemingly disappeared off the face of the earth. What establishes whether he warrants an article though is WP:SIGCOV, and I've been able to find these: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6]. It's not a lot of coverage, so I'm not voting keep just yet, but it's also not the clear-cut delete !vote that it appeared based on your description. A deeper WP:BEFORE search which I don't have time for at the moment could shed some more light on this. MSport1005 ( talk) 12:47, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
-
MSport1005 First of all, thank you for bothering to have a really extensive backstory research, it's really appreciated. It seems like you have a lot of general knowledge beyond just the straightforward facts about feeder series. I think we might need a talk page discussion about that NMOTORSPORT criteria 2, as in whether some (or all) of those championships should be applied, but as of now, I have no other way but to apply it as it stands and written. It'd be too ambiguous to take upon anything else before any consensus. About the sources, I found exactly the same things as you did in sources 1-3 and 6, which are passing mentions or recaps (something I've mentioned in the nomination). Haven't seen the airport thing (have in mind 4 and 5 are identically the same, just in different sites, so you should remove one of them), but ultimately the coverage is also not as deep as it might look at the first glance and is not directed to Porteiro himself. Seems like it might be worthy to create an article about Porteiro Motorsport with some deeper research, but I can't find anything that'd point me to say Santiago on his own is notable.
Jovanmilic97 (
talk) 16:49, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
- That's a fair interpretation, with the caveat that #1 is a recap but focuses more on the driver than the series, so while it's not extense, it's also not WP:ROUTINE. #4/#5 are indeed just one event covered by different outlets. I'd agree that, as it stands, the coverage isn't quite enough for GNG—in which case, merging Santi's page to Félix Porteiro or to a potential article on Porteiro Motorsport (which I support) could be a good idea. After all, all it is (in its current state) is a poor, outdated stub with nothing more than a lead and a couple of links. MSport1005 ( talk) 17:29, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
-
MSport1005 First of all, thank you for bothering to have a really extensive backstory research, it's really appreciated. It seems like you have a lot of general knowledge beyond just the straightforward facts about feeder series. I think we might need a talk page discussion about that NMOTORSPORT criteria 2, as in whether some (or all) of those championships should be applied, but as of now, I have no other way but to apply it as it stands and written. It'd be too ambiguous to take upon anything else before any consensus. About the sources, I found exactly the same things as you did in sources 1-3 and 6, which are passing mentions or recaps (something I've mentioned in the nomination). Haven't seen the airport thing (have in mind 4 and 5 are identically the same, just in different sites, so you should remove one of them), but ultimately the coverage is also not as deep as it might look at the first glance and is not directed to Porteiro himself. Seems like it might be worthy to create an article about Porteiro Motorsport with some deeper research, but I can't find anything that'd point me to say Santiago on his own is notable.
Jovanmilic97 (
talk) 16:49, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
- Delete Fails WP:SPORTBASIC and WP:GNG as it stands (the two being much the same these days), can't see anything above that changes that, TBH. Best Alexandermcnabb ( talk) 15:43, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 20:42, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
- Delete with only one source that is not the subject's website, we cannot technically meet GNG period because it requires multiple indepdent sources. However it does not look like the one source that is indepdent of the subject is of a qwuality to meet GNG either, so we need to delete. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 21:00, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
- Strong delete, we do not create articles to say
X person plays for Y team in Z sport
and say nothing else. >> Lil-unique1 ( talk) — 23:31, 27 July 2022 (UTC)- That is not how notability works. You just described what a stub is.
MSport1005 (
talk) 15:16, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
- A) This is such a stub, elegantly - if sparsely - described B) It fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTBASIC. The subject is not notable per today's guidelines. Best Alexandermcnabb ( talk) 16:19, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
- That is not how notability works. You just described what a stub is.
MSport1005 (
talk) 15:16, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Happy to restore the article for the purpose of merging content, if desired. —ScottyWong— 19:02, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
Santiago Porteiro
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Santiago Porteiro ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Doesn't meet WP:GNG or WP:NMOTORSPORT. He competed in Formula 1 feeder series but didn't make it to International Formula 3000 (which was the GP2 Series' predecessor at the time for NMOTORSPORT Criteria 2). I wasn't able to find anything in my searches besides database entries, passing mentions in the race recaps, and a single mention in one dubious source about opening a new team for Spanish F4 2017 (which didn't even happen). Jovanmilic97 ( talk) 09:20, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Motorsport, and Spain. Jovanmilic97 ( talk) 09:20, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment - Alright alright alright... let me set this straight because I think you're getting a lot of stuff mixed up. First of all, Criteria 2 of WP:NMOTORSPORT should not and does not mean exclusively F3000/GP2/F2. These are just the main series the FIA favours as F1's primary feeder series, which doesn't mean there weren't more. Wikipedia is not the FIA's sock puppet so there is no reason to ignore the likes of the Trophées de France, the always-confused British F1, British Formula 3000, Auto GP, MSV F2 or most importantly Formula Renault 3.5. These were all "top-level feeder series" by definition, while not necessarily equally notable. Now, FR3.5 was essentially as important as GP2 in this era, in fact taking more drivers directly to F1, and it is where Santi Porteiro (that's his WP:COMMONNAME and the name with which you'll find more coverage of him) raced in. Or rather, in its predecessor, the World Series by Nissan—only difference with the former being the promoter, Jaime Alguersuari Sr.'s RPM Racing. I don't think this makes him notable, especially as his results were poor, but it's not as if he didn't make it to an important championship... The thing with Santi is his article isn't updated. He's not just a (former) racing driver, he's currently a decently-respected driver coach and manager, as well as the founder of Porteiro Motorsport (together with his more successful brother Félix Porteiro). The team has raced in the European F3 Open (present-day Euroformula) and its parent series International GT Open, and were indeed planning an expansion to F4 but backed out of it. However, what they're most known for is their collection of cars for use in private or public test days. They own cars from GT3, GT4 (primarily Mercedes), GP2 (both /08 and /11 I believe), GP3, 3.5, Regional, F4 and even World Series Lights (funnily enough, the series Santi won)... and they're quite busy testing them all year long. They've got deals going on with various F2/F3 teams (e.g. Campos and Charouz) and most of their drivers (Bolukbasi, Caldwell, Pizzi, Martí this year) prepare their seasons testing for Porteiro. So... to summarise: this is Santi's business now, it's pretty big and it's what he and Félix are known for in the industry. He is not a random, retired racing driver that has seemingly disappeared off the face of the earth. What establishes whether he warrants an article though is WP:SIGCOV, and I've been able to find these: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6]. It's not a lot of coverage, so I'm not voting keep just yet, but it's also not the clear-cut delete !vote that it appeared based on your description. A deeper WP:BEFORE search which I don't have time for at the moment could shed some more light on this. MSport1005 ( talk) 12:47, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
-
MSport1005 First of all, thank you for bothering to have a really extensive backstory research, it's really appreciated. It seems like you have a lot of general knowledge beyond just the straightforward facts about feeder series. I think we might need a talk page discussion about that NMOTORSPORT criteria 2, as in whether some (or all) of those championships should be applied, but as of now, I have no other way but to apply it as it stands and written. It'd be too ambiguous to take upon anything else before any consensus. About the sources, I found exactly the same things as you did in sources 1-3 and 6, which are passing mentions or recaps (something I've mentioned in the nomination). Haven't seen the airport thing (have in mind 4 and 5 are identically the same, just in different sites, so you should remove one of them), but ultimately the coverage is also not as deep as it might look at the first glance and is not directed to Porteiro himself. Seems like it might be worthy to create an article about Porteiro Motorsport with some deeper research, but I can't find anything that'd point me to say Santiago on his own is notable.
Jovanmilic97 (
talk) 16:49, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
- That's a fair interpretation, with the caveat that #1 is a recap but focuses more on the driver than the series, so while it's not extense, it's also not WP:ROUTINE. #4/#5 are indeed just one event covered by different outlets. I'd agree that, as it stands, the coverage isn't quite enough for GNG—in which case, merging Santi's page to Félix Porteiro or to a potential article on Porteiro Motorsport (which I support) could be a good idea. After all, all it is (in its current state) is a poor, outdated stub with nothing more than a lead and a couple of links. MSport1005 ( talk) 17:29, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
-
MSport1005 First of all, thank you for bothering to have a really extensive backstory research, it's really appreciated. It seems like you have a lot of general knowledge beyond just the straightforward facts about feeder series. I think we might need a talk page discussion about that NMOTORSPORT criteria 2, as in whether some (or all) of those championships should be applied, but as of now, I have no other way but to apply it as it stands and written. It'd be too ambiguous to take upon anything else before any consensus. About the sources, I found exactly the same things as you did in sources 1-3 and 6, which are passing mentions or recaps (something I've mentioned in the nomination). Haven't seen the airport thing (have in mind 4 and 5 are identically the same, just in different sites, so you should remove one of them), but ultimately the coverage is also not as deep as it might look at the first glance and is not directed to Porteiro himself. Seems like it might be worthy to create an article about Porteiro Motorsport with some deeper research, but I can't find anything that'd point me to say Santiago on his own is notable.
Jovanmilic97 (
talk) 16:49, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
- Delete Fails WP:SPORTBASIC and WP:GNG as it stands (the two being much the same these days), can't see anything above that changes that, TBH. Best Alexandermcnabb ( talk) 15:43, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 20:42, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
- Delete with only one source that is not the subject's website, we cannot technically meet GNG period because it requires multiple indepdent sources. However it does not look like the one source that is indepdent of the subject is of a qwuality to meet GNG either, so we need to delete. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 21:00, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
- Strong delete, we do not create articles to say
X person plays for Y team in Z sport
and say nothing else. >> Lil-unique1 ( talk) — 23:31, 27 July 2022 (UTC)- That is not how notability works. You just described what a stub is.
MSport1005 (
talk) 15:16, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
- A) This is such a stub, elegantly - if sparsely - described B) It fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTBASIC. The subject is not notable per today's guidelines. Best Alexandermcnabb ( talk) 16:19, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
- That is not how notability works. You just described what a stub is.
MSport1005 (
talk) 15:16, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.