- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. And it looks like a good move to examine the article creator's other articles. Liz Read! Talk! 07:00, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Ruijin-class armed merchantman
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- Ruijin-class armed merchantman ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Dependence on unreliable source and - based on Google translation of said source - WP:OR. Cursory Google and Wikipedia Library search fails to turn up reliable sources. - RovingPersonalityConstruct ( talk, contribs) 07:41, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Military and China. Shellwood ( talk) 09:23, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment. The article does not impress, and lack of zh interwiki is not a good sign. But a BEFORE should be done in Chinese. Can anyone help? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:43, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment. Upon digging a bit further, I fear that this may be the tip of an iceberg. XdeLaTorre ( talk · contribs), who created this article, seems to have created a great many more articles like this over the past ten years. It's rather overwhelming. - RovingPersonalityConstruct ( talk, contribs) 19:46, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment Apparently "Ruijin" is a translation or transliteration of a US warship...? [1] This is confusing. Googling "Ruijin ship" ("瑞金船") doesn't seem to give anything about this one. My Mandarin is mediocre, though. Ovinus ( talk) 23:31, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 08:32, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: The sole citation, google-translated from the Chinese, says
- "Ruijin/ Xingguo/ Zunyi/ Handan/ Yancheng
- These five ships are all substitute gunboats converted from merchant ships or transport ships. In the early days of the establishment of the CCP Navy, due to the lack of regular combat ships, a large number of ships from the original China Merchants Bureau and various private shipping and fishing companies were requisitioned to install artillery as substitute gunboats (Also known as frigate); it belongs to the Seventh Fleet of the East China Navy of the Chinese Communist Party.
- Among them, the two ships "Ruijin" and "Xingguo" were originally small transport ships of the U.S. Navy. They were sold to China's state-owned China Merchants Shipping Company after the war and were named "Jiangtong" and "Jiangda" respectively. After the CCP won Nanjing and Shanghai, in order to Intensifying preparations for the offensive against Taiwan, the two ships were expropriated by the East China naval authorities and equipped with a land-use 105mm howitzer and two American 76.2mm anti-aircraft guns. Renamed "Ruijin" and "Xingguo" became gunboats.
- The "Ruijin" ship was sunk by four F-47 fighters of the National Air Force at 0652 on May 18, 1954 near Cao Xieyu in the waters of Zhejiang; due to the special significance of the name of Ruijin to the history of the CCP, it is reported that the CCP later compensated with Japan. The ship "Hui'an" was put into service in place of "Ruijin"."
- From this it appears that the 6 ships in the English WP article include the replacement ship, Hui'an (="Huaiyang", but the wikilink in the article goes to a geographical district, as do all 6 of the "PLAN name"s in the article's table). All the information in the English article beyond what is given in the cited text is at the moment WP:OR, or at least, the editor has forgotten to cite the sources used. The clue "(Also known as frigate)" might lead somewhere, or it might not, it's a very general term in English but it might be more specific in Chinese. All the launch, commissioned, and retired dates are vague in the extreme, barring the exact retired-sunk date for Ruijin which comes from the cited source: in short, the table is almost completely worthless. The same goes for the 8 bluelinks to "World War II" intended as date substitutes: these are vague to the point of non-existence (ignoring the ridiculous overlinking). I wonder where the data - 560 long tons, 180 ft length, 500 hp engine power etc come from - these don't look made up. Maybe User:XdeLaTorre could help us with that? If not, this will have to be deleted as OR. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 14:27, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete, at very least per WP:TNT. We have severe verifiability concerns and the author has so far been unresponsive ( User_talk:XdeLaTorre#Chinese_ship_articles). The similar ship articles should probably be scrutinized. Ovinus ( talk) 23:19, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete, per Ovinus and my discussion above - without reliable evidence, this is unsalvageable. I'd concur that all the similar ship articles may need to be checked for the same issue. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 08:38, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. And it looks like a good move to examine the article creator's other articles. Liz Read! Talk! 07:00, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Ruijin-class armed merchantman
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Ruijin-class armed merchantman ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Dependence on unreliable source and - based on Google translation of said source - WP:OR. Cursory Google and Wikipedia Library search fails to turn up reliable sources. - RovingPersonalityConstruct ( talk, contribs) 07:41, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Military and China. Shellwood ( talk) 09:23, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment. The article does not impress, and lack of zh interwiki is not a good sign. But a BEFORE should be done in Chinese. Can anyone help? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:43, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment. Upon digging a bit further, I fear that this may be the tip of an iceberg. XdeLaTorre ( talk · contribs), who created this article, seems to have created a great many more articles like this over the past ten years. It's rather overwhelming. - RovingPersonalityConstruct ( talk, contribs) 19:46, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment Apparently "Ruijin" is a translation or transliteration of a US warship...? [1] This is confusing. Googling "Ruijin ship" ("瑞金船") doesn't seem to give anything about this one. My Mandarin is mediocre, though. Ovinus ( talk) 23:31, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 08:32, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: The sole citation, google-translated from the Chinese, says
- "Ruijin/ Xingguo/ Zunyi/ Handan/ Yancheng
- These five ships are all substitute gunboats converted from merchant ships or transport ships. In the early days of the establishment of the CCP Navy, due to the lack of regular combat ships, a large number of ships from the original China Merchants Bureau and various private shipping and fishing companies were requisitioned to install artillery as substitute gunboats (Also known as frigate); it belongs to the Seventh Fleet of the East China Navy of the Chinese Communist Party.
- Among them, the two ships "Ruijin" and "Xingguo" were originally small transport ships of the U.S. Navy. They were sold to China's state-owned China Merchants Shipping Company after the war and were named "Jiangtong" and "Jiangda" respectively. After the CCP won Nanjing and Shanghai, in order to Intensifying preparations for the offensive against Taiwan, the two ships were expropriated by the East China naval authorities and equipped with a land-use 105mm howitzer and two American 76.2mm anti-aircraft guns. Renamed "Ruijin" and "Xingguo" became gunboats.
- The "Ruijin" ship was sunk by four F-47 fighters of the National Air Force at 0652 on May 18, 1954 near Cao Xieyu in the waters of Zhejiang; due to the special significance of the name of Ruijin to the history of the CCP, it is reported that the CCP later compensated with Japan. The ship "Hui'an" was put into service in place of "Ruijin"."
- From this it appears that the 6 ships in the English WP article include the replacement ship, Hui'an (="Huaiyang", but the wikilink in the article goes to a geographical district, as do all 6 of the "PLAN name"s in the article's table). All the information in the English article beyond what is given in the cited text is at the moment WP:OR, or at least, the editor has forgotten to cite the sources used. The clue "(Also known as frigate)" might lead somewhere, or it might not, it's a very general term in English but it might be more specific in Chinese. All the launch, commissioned, and retired dates are vague in the extreme, barring the exact retired-sunk date for Ruijin which comes from the cited source: in short, the table is almost completely worthless. The same goes for the 8 bluelinks to "World War II" intended as date substitutes: these are vague to the point of non-existence (ignoring the ridiculous overlinking). I wonder where the data - 560 long tons, 180 ft length, 500 hp engine power etc come from - these don't look made up. Maybe User:XdeLaTorre could help us with that? If not, this will have to be deleted as OR. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 14:27, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete, at very least per WP:TNT. We have severe verifiability concerns and the author has so far been unresponsive ( User_talk:XdeLaTorre#Chinese_ship_articles). The similar ship articles should probably be scrutinized. Ovinus ( talk) 23:19, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete, per Ovinus and my discussion above - without reliable evidence, this is unsalvageable. I'd concur that all the similar ship articles may need to be checked for the same issue. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 08:38, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.