- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:44, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
Rick Foster
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Doesn't have the success or sources to meet WP:GNG or WP:MUSICBIO. No suitable merge/redirect target. Also seems written as an advert, and has been in CAT:NN for 12 years. Boleyn ( talk) 20:34, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 21:11, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Oregon-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 21:11, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
- Comment for now. My first article as a beginning editor. Also unfortunately an editor with an obvious COI came and edited it. I believe the sources within the article demonstrate notability, but also appears on Billboard's charts [1], has long been published by Mel Bay [2], Reviewed by the Christian Herald (Christian Herald - Volume 103 - Page 76), written about in-depth in Frets magazine (Frets - Volume 6 - Page 48, 1984). His period of greatest success was the late 1970s and early 1980s, so most of this is unavailable digitally. Still, I'm not sure how GNG is not met, and I'm not sure how you define "success", as he has been touring the United States for 40 years, supporting himself with his playing. Certainly he isn't a rock star, or the latest internet meme... Warning: most of the newspapers.com results are obviously PR pieces handed to the Religion editor, they duplicate each other nearly word-for-word. 78.26 ( spin me / revolutions) 21:13, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
- Delete No indication of being notable. A local church guitarist who goes to gigs. It has a notability tag for more than a decade and no attempt has been made to update it with newer sources, because they don't exist. Fails WP:MUSICBIO and WP:SIGCOV. scope_creep Talk 10:13, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
- Weak Delete - The News Journal and Daily Courier sources look to me like they would contribute towards the subject meeting WP:GNG, but not quite to the extent that I'm persuaded to support a keep. The Orlando Sentinel source just mentions that he will be playing a free show, and the types of music that can be expected there. Watchlisting this as I may change my vote if further evidence of notablity is provided. I'd be interested to know more about the coverage in Frets. As for the honest comment that "most of the newspapers.com results are obviously PR pieces handed to the Religion editor, they duplicate each other nearly word-for-word" - I think that recycling of PR materials is very common across many types of newspaper/magazine/web articles; if they appear in a reliable source then I'm personally happy that they are OK. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose ( talk) 13:30, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
- Keep nominated for a Dove Award and has coverage in multiple reliable sources such as a dedicated Billboard piece and the Orlando Sentinel, passes WP:GNG in my view, Atlantic306 ( talk) 00:33, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
- Keep due to Billboard coverage and also keep in mind that lot's of news from that era is not available online. Lesliechin1 ( talk) 10:23, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
- Keep Regarding WP:MUSICBIO:
- 1: Yes
- 2: Yes, technically (at least #36 on Billboard's Inspirational LPs)
- 3: No
- 4: Not really, coverage on individual concerts of what appears to be a national tour '95 and '96, but no coverage of the tour itself.
- 5: I'm going no. Bread & Honey was a significant, but not major, label in the religious market in the mid 70s to early 90, but I actually don't think I could write an article about it. One of his albums was released on Chapel Records, but only one, so fails.
- 6: No
- 7: Only if you define the genre narrowly enough. The foremost representative of Christian fingerstyle guitar, yes, but that's not a notable topic.
- 8: Yes. The Dove Awards are the highest honor in American Christian music.
- 9: No
- 10: No
- 11: I don't think so. I wrote this article when brand new to wikipedia because I used to work at a Christian radio station. Foster's music received fairly heavy rotation. We were an influential station, and the trade magazine for Christian radio at the time used us to create their charts. It was not Billboard. I was not program director, and I paid little attention at the time, wish I knew what the name of that rag was, and had access to it now. If you listen to a station that plays "conservative" Christian music you are likely to hear Foster's music, but these type of stations almost never announce selections. So he has a nationwide radio audience, but not by a "network" other than possibly American Family Radio and Family Radio, but I can't prove any of this with sources currently available to me.
- 12: No
Regarding WP:GNG, here is an analysis of the sources currently in the article.
- 1. (Paul Baker, Billboard) Casual mention not conferring notability, used to classify genre and label he was with at time (his most successful period, also demonstrates that, unlike Edensong, it is not self-published). This is an indication of likely notability. Independent, reliable, but not SIGCOV so does not count toward GNG. That said, "local church guitarists" do not get casual mentions in Billboard as representatives of a genre, in the same class as Dino Kartsonakis and Roland Lundy, 2015 Gospel Music Hall of Fame inductee.
- 2. (Margaret Davie, Daytona Beach News Journal) Newspaper article about Foster. Independent, reliable, and SIGCOV. Counts toward GNG.
- 3. (Guitar and Lute Magazine, 1982) Review of Foster performance in secular magazine. Independent, reliable, and SIGCOV. Counts toward GNG.
- 4. (Orlando Sentinel, 1996) Casual mention announcing concert, used because it isn't a PR piece, used to support GMA Dove Award nomination claim. Independent
- 5. This is one of many similar pieces, signifying it was sent to the newspaper editor who ran it without a lot of modifications. See next section for further commentary.
- 6. (Frets magazine, 1989) Full album review in secular magazine, 1989. Independent, reliable, and SIGCOV, counts towards GNG.
So as the article currently stands, there are three sources counting towards GNG, and by most estimations that notability standard is met.
There are several available sources that are not in the article. As mentioned, there are several appearing as news articles in reliable sources, but which are clearly based upon material provided by Foster or his agent. They do not count toward GNG, but clearly refute the notion he is a "local church guitarist who goes to gigs". They include Santa Maria, California (Mar 1983); Santa Cruz, California (Jan 1987); Albany, Oregon (Jan 1987); Salem, Oregon (Jan 1990); Albany, Oregon (Mar 1991); Coos Bay, Oregon (Dec 1991); Ukiah, California (Jan 1992); Arroyo Grand, California (Jan 1992); Santa Clara, California (Feb 1992); Longview, Washington (Feb 1995); Arroyo Grand, California (Mar 1995); Lompoc, California (Mar 1995); Provo, UT (Mar 1995); San Pedro, California (Jan 1996); Jackson, Mississippi (Mar 1996); Lincoln, Nebraska (April 1996), and I quit looking through Newspapers.com after this, although there are more results. (and I am not counting the numerous concert announcements which expand the timeline and geographic scope of his touring career)
However, the following contain significant, independent, reliable coverage of Rick Foster:
- Christian Herald - Volume 104 - Page 12 (1981) - album review
- Grace Like a River by Christopher Parkening, page 91, talks about Foster's arrangement of "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" Parkening popularized.
- [3]
- [4]
this Billboard advertisement, while in and of itself not independent nor in-depth, indicates with almost certainty the existence of at least nine independent, in-depth, reliable sources which are not available online.
The following are of interest, but don't count towards establishing notability:
In any case, GNG is met, and therefore MUSICBIO as well. QED. 78.26 ( spin me / revolutions) 03:11, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
- Keep. Meets WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO. Bungstnk ( talk) 04:24, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:44, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
Rick Foster
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Rick Foster ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Doesn't have the success or sources to meet WP:GNG or WP:MUSICBIO. No suitable merge/redirect target. Also seems written as an advert, and has been in CAT:NN for 12 years. Boleyn ( talk) 20:34, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 21:11, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Oregon-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 21:11, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
- Comment for now. My first article as a beginning editor. Also unfortunately an editor with an obvious COI came and edited it. I believe the sources within the article demonstrate notability, but also appears on Billboard's charts [1], has long been published by Mel Bay [2], Reviewed by the Christian Herald (Christian Herald - Volume 103 - Page 76), written about in-depth in Frets magazine (Frets - Volume 6 - Page 48, 1984). His period of greatest success was the late 1970s and early 1980s, so most of this is unavailable digitally. Still, I'm not sure how GNG is not met, and I'm not sure how you define "success", as he has been touring the United States for 40 years, supporting himself with his playing. Certainly he isn't a rock star, or the latest internet meme... Warning: most of the newspapers.com results are obviously PR pieces handed to the Religion editor, they duplicate each other nearly word-for-word. 78.26 ( spin me / revolutions) 21:13, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
- Delete No indication of being notable. A local church guitarist who goes to gigs. It has a notability tag for more than a decade and no attempt has been made to update it with newer sources, because they don't exist. Fails WP:MUSICBIO and WP:SIGCOV. scope_creep Talk 10:13, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
- Weak Delete - The News Journal and Daily Courier sources look to me like they would contribute towards the subject meeting WP:GNG, but not quite to the extent that I'm persuaded to support a keep. The Orlando Sentinel source just mentions that he will be playing a free show, and the types of music that can be expected there. Watchlisting this as I may change my vote if further evidence of notablity is provided. I'd be interested to know more about the coverage in Frets. As for the honest comment that "most of the newspapers.com results are obviously PR pieces handed to the Religion editor, they duplicate each other nearly word-for-word" - I think that recycling of PR materials is very common across many types of newspaper/magazine/web articles; if they appear in a reliable source then I'm personally happy that they are OK. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose ( talk) 13:30, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
- Keep nominated for a Dove Award and has coverage in multiple reliable sources such as a dedicated Billboard piece and the Orlando Sentinel, passes WP:GNG in my view, Atlantic306 ( talk) 00:33, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
- Keep due to Billboard coverage and also keep in mind that lot's of news from that era is not available online. Lesliechin1 ( talk) 10:23, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
- Keep Regarding WP:MUSICBIO:
- 1: Yes
- 2: Yes, technically (at least #36 on Billboard's Inspirational LPs)
- 3: No
- 4: Not really, coverage on individual concerts of what appears to be a national tour '95 and '96, but no coverage of the tour itself.
- 5: I'm going no. Bread & Honey was a significant, but not major, label in the religious market in the mid 70s to early 90, but I actually don't think I could write an article about it. One of his albums was released on Chapel Records, but only one, so fails.
- 6: No
- 7: Only if you define the genre narrowly enough. The foremost representative of Christian fingerstyle guitar, yes, but that's not a notable topic.
- 8: Yes. The Dove Awards are the highest honor in American Christian music.
- 9: No
- 10: No
- 11: I don't think so. I wrote this article when brand new to wikipedia because I used to work at a Christian radio station. Foster's music received fairly heavy rotation. We were an influential station, and the trade magazine for Christian radio at the time used us to create their charts. It was not Billboard. I was not program director, and I paid little attention at the time, wish I knew what the name of that rag was, and had access to it now. If you listen to a station that plays "conservative" Christian music you are likely to hear Foster's music, but these type of stations almost never announce selections. So he has a nationwide radio audience, but not by a "network" other than possibly American Family Radio and Family Radio, but I can't prove any of this with sources currently available to me.
- 12: No
Regarding WP:GNG, here is an analysis of the sources currently in the article.
- 1. (Paul Baker, Billboard) Casual mention not conferring notability, used to classify genre and label he was with at time (his most successful period, also demonstrates that, unlike Edensong, it is not self-published). This is an indication of likely notability. Independent, reliable, but not SIGCOV so does not count toward GNG. That said, "local church guitarists" do not get casual mentions in Billboard as representatives of a genre, in the same class as Dino Kartsonakis and Roland Lundy, 2015 Gospel Music Hall of Fame inductee.
- 2. (Margaret Davie, Daytona Beach News Journal) Newspaper article about Foster. Independent, reliable, and SIGCOV. Counts toward GNG.
- 3. (Guitar and Lute Magazine, 1982) Review of Foster performance in secular magazine. Independent, reliable, and SIGCOV. Counts toward GNG.
- 4. (Orlando Sentinel, 1996) Casual mention announcing concert, used because it isn't a PR piece, used to support GMA Dove Award nomination claim. Independent
- 5. This is one of many similar pieces, signifying it was sent to the newspaper editor who ran it without a lot of modifications. See next section for further commentary.
- 6. (Frets magazine, 1989) Full album review in secular magazine, 1989. Independent, reliable, and SIGCOV, counts towards GNG.
So as the article currently stands, there are three sources counting towards GNG, and by most estimations that notability standard is met.
There are several available sources that are not in the article. As mentioned, there are several appearing as news articles in reliable sources, but which are clearly based upon material provided by Foster or his agent. They do not count toward GNG, but clearly refute the notion he is a "local church guitarist who goes to gigs". They include Santa Maria, California (Mar 1983); Santa Cruz, California (Jan 1987); Albany, Oregon (Jan 1987); Salem, Oregon (Jan 1990); Albany, Oregon (Mar 1991); Coos Bay, Oregon (Dec 1991); Ukiah, California (Jan 1992); Arroyo Grand, California (Jan 1992); Santa Clara, California (Feb 1992); Longview, Washington (Feb 1995); Arroyo Grand, California (Mar 1995); Lompoc, California (Mar 1995); Provo, UT (Mar 1995); San Pedro, California (Jan 1996); Jackson, Mississippi (Mar 1996); Lincoln, Nebraska (April 1996), and I quit looking through Newspapers.com after this, although there are more results. (and I am not counting the numerous concert announcements which expand the timeline and geographic scope of his touring career)
However, the following contain significant, independent, reliable coverage of Rick Foster:
- Christian Herald - Volume 104 - Page 12 (1981) - album review
- Grace Like a River by Christopher Parkening, page 91, talks about Foster's arrangement of "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" Parkening popularized.
- [3]
- [4]
this Billboard advertisement, while in and of itself not independent nor in-depth, indicates with almost certainty the existence of at least nine independent, in-depth, reliable sources which are not available online.
The following are of interest, but don't count towards establishing notability:
In any case, GNG is met, and therefore MUSICBIO as well. QED. 78.26 ( spin me / revolutions) 03:11, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
- Keep. Meets WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO. Bungstnk ( talk) 04:24, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.