- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. (non-admin closure) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mello hi! ( 投稿) 06:29, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Richmond County Public Schools
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Richmond County Public Schools ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
I prodded it with the following rationale: "The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline nor the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (companies) requirement. WP:BEFORE did not reveal any significant coverage on Gnews, Gbooks or Gscholar." It was deprodded by User:Lanierm24 with the following rationale "Added more citations.". The citations, however, are either not independent, just catalog information (failing WP:SIGCOV) or both. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:40, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Schools and Virginia. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:40, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:27, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. I've listed sources for improving this article on the talk page — there are 17 additional sources on Rappahannock High School for a new article. (The local newspaper is technically by subscription, but clearing your browser's cache, cookies, and browsing history lifts the subscription block for another couple of articles.) Even it its current pitiful state, this subject is notable, per [[WP:NEXIST].
— Grand'mere Eugene (
talk)
01:52, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- @
Grand'mere Eugene The notability of
Rappahannock High School is not the same as notability of the
Richmond County Public Schools. Perhaps the solution is to make an article about the notable school, and redirect this article there. Keep in mind
WP:NOTINHERITED.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
04:44, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- ??
Piotrus, Did you miss the 23 articles on Richmond County Public Schools that I listed on the
talk page, plus the 3 NCES sites to verify current enrollment stats? Sorry if my note above was not clear that I find that the Richmond County Public Schools article has enough sources meet GNG, because those sources exist. Secondarily, there are 17 additional articles on Rappahannock High that I didn't list, because of course that's a separate subject that also happens to be notable and should have an article, too.
— Grand'mere Eugene (
talk)
05:10, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- @
Grand'mere Eugene Right. The problem is that your list of potential sources is very much a
WP:GOOGLEHITS style list of all websites that mention those topics. A quick glance shows that many are not independent or don't meet
WP:SIGCOV. If you'd like to rescue this, rather than throwing three dozen or links, please select two-three best ones which meet
WP:RS and
WP:SIGCOV and present them here (tell us why SIGCOV is met, and why the source is reliable). This will be a much stronger argument.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
05:23, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- Friend
Piotrus, your "quick glance" analysis of the sources listed on
Talk:Richmond County Public Schools is sadly lacking in resemblance to reality. Twenty one articles are sourced to News on the Neck, a website that consolidates three local newspapers' coverage of the rural
Northern Neck peninsula: Northern Neck News,
Westmoreland News, and Northumberland Echo. Having three small newspapers is a little unusual in rural areas, but their consolidation on a website is a plus in terms of indexing. Their news stories are secondary and thorough, significant coverage; it appears reliable and neutral to me, as the articles cover both sides of a couple of contentious issues. There are two ERIC sources listed on the talk page that cover an older research project conducted on the arts curriculum in the district, also independent and reliable significant coverage. If you find it more reasonable, go ahead and pick any
three of these bona fide
reliable sources from the article as I have now revised it. Cordially,
— Grand'mere Eugene (
talk)
19:01, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
- Let me repeat: can you link here, directly, to two best sources? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:39, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
- Friend
Piotrus, your "quick glance" analysis of the sources listed on
Talk:Richmond County Public Schools is sadly lacking in resemblance to reality. Twenty one articles are sourced to News on the Neck, a website that consolidates three local newspapers' coverage of the rural
Northern Neck peninsula: Northern Neck News,
Westmoreland News, and Northumberland Echo. Having three small newspapers is a little unusual in rural areas, but their consolidation on a website is a plus in terms of indexing. Their news stories are secondary and thorough, significant coverage; it appears reliable and neutral to me, as the articles cover both sides of a couple of contentious issues. There are two ERIC sources listed on the talk page that cover an older research project conducted on the arts curriculum in the district, also independent and reliable significant coverage. If you find it more reasonable, go ahead and pick any
three of these bona fide
reliable sources from the article as I have now revised it. Cordially,
— Grand'mere Eugene (
talk)
19:01, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
- @
Grand'mere Eugene Right. The problem is that your list of potential sources is very much a
WP:GOOGLEHITS style list of all websites that mention those topics. A quick glance shows that many are not independent or don't meet
WP:SIGCOV. If you'd like to rescue this, rather than throwing three dozen or links, please select two-three best ones which meet
WP:RS and
WP:SIGCOV and present them here (tell us why SIGCOV is met, and why the source is reliable). This will be a much stronger argument.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
05:23, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- ??
Piotrus, Did you miss the 23 articles on Richmond County Public Schools that I listed on the
talk page, plus the 3 NCES sites to verify current enrollment stats? Sorry if my note above was not clear that I find that the Richmond County Public Schools article has enough sources meet GNG, because those sources exist. Secondarily, there are 17 additional articles on Rappahannock High that I didn't list, because of course that's a separate subject that also happens to be notable and should have an article, too.
— Grand'mere Eugene (
talk)
05:10, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- @
Grand'mere Eugene The notability of
Rappahannock High School is not the same as notability of the
Richmond County Public Schools. Perhaps the solution is to make an article about the notable school, and redirect this article there. Keep in mind
WP:NOTINHERITED.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
04:44, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Piotrus, see the first 2 paragraphs of
the article's section on Funding, supported by the following sources:
- "School Board weighs open district proposal". News on the Neck. Apr 17, 2013. Retrieved 2022-08-24.
- "Citizens overwhelmingly support no fees for school". News on the Neck. Jun 26, 2013. Retrieved 2022-08-24.
- "School Board decides open policy with no tuition". News on the Neck. Jul 17, 2013. Retrieved 2022-08-24.
The next source is a follow-up, a year later:
- "Richmond County supervisors approve schools' appropriation request 3-2". News on the Neck. Jul 16, 2014. Retrieved 2022-08-24.
Cheers! — Grand'mere Eugene ( talk) 05:38, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
- P.S. As I mentioned above, the cited newspaper is technically by subscription, but clearing your browser's cache, cookies, and browsing history lifts the subscription block for another couple of articles.
— Grand'mere Eugene (
talk)
05:51, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
- @
Grand'mere Eugene Thanks. I am afraid I'll remain unconvinced (and just let this discussion continue - let's see what others find). To me, the above is pretty much
WP:ROUTINE reporting, not unlike press releases, from a very local outlet (
News on the Neck). IMHO we are proving the existence of the entity (entities) discussed, but not their significance (as defined by
WP:GNG).
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
06:28, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks, Piotrus. I, too, welcome the opinions of other editors. — Grand'mere Eugene ( talk) 20:46, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
- @
Grand'mere Eugene Thanks. I am afraid I'll remain unconvinced (and just let this discussion continue - let's see what others find). To me, the above is pretty much
WP:ROUTINE reporting, not unlike press releases, from a very local outlet (
News on the Neck). IMHO we are proving the existence of the entity (entities) discussed, but not their significance (as defined by
WP:GNG).
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
06:28, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 12:36, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - It's a small school district in a rural area so the sourcing is going be rough. The editors on this page did a good job using all the sourcing that is available and making it work. Nweil ( talk) 20:58, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - the decision on whether or not to keep an article on a school district isn't based on NSCHOOL. It's based on the notability standards for units of government ( GEOLAND), because that's what a school district is in the United States. A unit of government; with fixed geographic boundaries, elected leaders and the power of taxation. 174.212.228.93 ( talk) 00:01, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. For years, when a school was found non-notable, the advice was to direct to the district article (if it existed), or to the locality if it did not. I am unaware of a school district article ever having been deleted. Per WP:GEOLAND, "Populated, legally recognized places are typically presumed to be notable, even if their population is very low". A school district is a legally recognized place, so we should keep them. Jacona ( talk) 17:08, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. (non-admin closure) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mello hi! ( 投稿) 06:29, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
Richmond County Public Schools
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Richmond County Public Schools ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
I prodded it with the following rationale: "The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline nor the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (companies) requirement. WP:BEFORE did not reveal any significant coverage on Gnews, Gbooks or Gscholar." It was deprodded by User:Lanierm24 with the following rationale "Added more citations.". The citations, however, are either not independent, just catalog information (failing WP:SIGCOV) or both. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:40, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Schools and Virginia. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:40, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:27, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. I've listed sources for improving this article on the talk page — there are 17 additional sources on Rappahannock High School for a new article. (The local newspaper is technically by subscription, but clearing your browser's cache, cookies, and browsing history lifts the subscription block for another couple of articles.) Even it its current pitiful state, this subject is notable, per [[WP:NEXIST].
— Grand'mere Eugene (
talk)
01:52, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- @
Grand'mere Eugene The notability of
Rappahannock High School is not the same as notability of the
Richmond County Public Schools. Perhaps the solution is to make an article about the notable school, and redirect this article there. Keep in mind
WP:NOTINHERITED.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
04:44, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- ??
Piotrus, Did you miss the 23 articles on Richmond County Public Schools that I listed on the
talk page, plus the 3 NCES sites to verify current enrollment stats? Sorry if my note above was not clear that I find that the Richmond County Public Schools article has enough sources meet GNG, because those sources exist. Secondarily, there are 17 additional articles on Rappahannock High that I didn't list, because of course that's a separate subject that also happens to be notable and should have an article, too.
— Grand'mere Eugene (
talk)
05:10, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- @
Grand'mere Eugene Right. The problem is that your list of potential sources is very much a
WP:GOOGLEHITS style list of all websites that mention those topics. A quick glance shows that many are not independent or don't meet
WP:SIGCOV. If you'd like to rescue this, rather than throwing three dozen or links, please select two-three best ones which meet
WP:RS and
WP:SIGCOV and present them here (tell us why SIGCOV is met, and why the source is reliable). This will be a much stronger argument.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
05:23, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- Friend
Piotrus, your "quick glance" analysis of the sources listed on
Talk:Richmond County Public Schools is sadly lacking in resemblance to reality. Twenty one articles are sourced to News on the Neck, a website that consolidates three local newspapers' coverage of the rural
Northern Neck peninsula: Northern Neck News,
Westmoreland News, and Northumberland Echo. Having three small newspapers is a little unusual in rural areas, but their consolidation on a website is a plus in terms of indexing. Their news stories are secondary and thorough, significant coverage; it appears reliable and neutral to me, as the articles cover both sides of a couple of contentious issues. There are two ERIC sources listed on the talk page that cover an older research project conducted on the arts curriculum in the district, also independent and reliable significant coverage. If you find it more reasonable, go ahead and pick any
three of these bona fide
reliable sources from the article as I have now revised it. Cordially,
— Grand'mere Eugene (
talk)
19:01, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
- Let me repeat: can you link here, directly, to two best sources? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:39, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
- Friend
Piotrus, your "quick glance" analysis of the sources listed on
Talk:Richmond County Public Schools is sadly lacking in resemblance to reality. Twenty one articles are sourced to News on the Neck, a website that consolidates three local newspapers' coverage of the rural
Northern Neck peninsula: Northern Neck News,
Westmoreland News, and Northumberland Echo. Having three small newspapers is a little unusual in rural areas, but their consolidation on a website is a plus in terms of indexing. Their news stories are secondary and thorough, significant coverage; it appears reliable and neutral to me, as the articles cover both sides of a couple of contentious issues. There are two ERIC sources listed on the talk page that cover an older research project conducted on the arts curriculum in the district, also independent and reliable significant coverage. If you find it more reasonable, go ahead and pick any
three of these bona fide
reliable sources from the article as I have now revised it. Cordially,
— Grand'mere Eugene (
talk)
19:01, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
- @
Grand'mere Eugene Right. The problem is that your list of potential sources is very much a
WP:GOOGLEHITS style list of all websites that mention those topics. A quick glance shows that many are not independent or don't meet
WP:SIGCOV. If you'd like to rescue this, rather than throwing three dozen or links, please select two-three best ones which meet
WP:RS and
WP:SIGCOV and present them here (tell us why SIGCOV is met, and why the source is reliable). This will be a much stronger argument.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
05:23, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- ??
Piotrus, Did you miss the 23 articles on Richmond County Public Schools that I listed on the
talk page, plus the 3 NCES sites to verify current enrollment stats? Sorry if my note above was not clear that I find that the Richmond County Public Schools article has enough sources meet GNG, because those sources exist. Secondarily, there are 17 additional articles on Rappahannock High that I didn't list, because of course that's a separate subject that also happens to be notable and should have an article, too.
— Grand'mere Eugene (
talk)
05:10, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
- @
Grand'mere Eugene The notability of
Rappahannock High School is not the same as notability of the
Richmond County Public Schools. Perhaps the solution is to make an article about the notable school, and redirect this article there. Keep in mind
WP:NOTINHERITED.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
04:44, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Piotrus, see the first 2 paragraphs of
the article's section on Funding, supported by the following sources:
- "School Board weighs open district proposal". News on the Neck. Apr 17, 2013. Retrieved 2022-08-24.
- "Citizens overwhelmingly support no fees for school". News on the Neck. Jun 26, 2013. Retrieved 2022-08-24.
- "School Board decides open policy with no tuition". News on the Neck. Jul 17, 2013. Retrieved 2022-08-24.
The next source is a follow-up, a year later:
- "Richmond County supervisors approve schools' appropriation request 3-2". News on the Neck. Jul 16, 2014. Retrieved 2022-08-24.
Cheers! — Grand'mere Eugene ( talk) 05:38, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
- P.S. As I mentioned above, the cited newspaper is technically by subscription, but clearing your browser's cache, cookies, and browsing history lifts the subscription block for another couple of articles.
— Grand'mere Eugene (
talk)
05:51, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
- @
Grand'mere Eugene Thanks. I am afraid I'll remain unconvinced (and just let this discussion continue - let's see what others find). To me, the above is pretty much
WP:ROUTINE reporting, not unlike press releases, from a very local outlet (
News on the Neck). IMHO we are proving the existence of the entity (entities) discussed, but not their significance (as defined by
WP:GNG).
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
06:28, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks, Piotrus. I, too, welcome the opinions of other editors. — Grand'mere Eugene ( talk) 20:46, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
- @
Grand'mere Eugene Thanks. I am afraid I'll remain unconvinced (and just let this discussion continue - let's see what others find). To me, the above is pretty much
WP:ROUTINE reporting, not unlike press releases, from a very local outlet (
News on the Neck). IMHO we are proving the existence of the entity (entities) discussed, but not their significance (as defined by
WP:GNG).
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
06:28, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 12:36, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - It's a small school district in a rural area so the sourcing is going be rough. The editors on this page did a good job using all the sourcing that is available and making it work. Nweil ( talk) 20:58, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - the decision on whether or not to keep an article on a school district isn't based on NSCHOOL. It's based on the notability standards for units of government ( GEOLAND), because that's what a school district is in the United States. A unit of government; with fixed geographic boundaries, elected leaders and the power of taxation. 174.212.228.93 ( talk) 00:01, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. For years, when a school was found non-notable, the advice was to direct to the district article (if it existed), or to the locality if it did not. I am unaware of a school district article ever having been deleted. Per WP:GEOLAND, "Populated, legally recognized places are typically presumed to be notable, even if their population is very low". A school district is a legally recognized place, so we should keep them. Jacona ( talk) 17:08, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.