- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 07:39, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
Purna Chandra Jamatia
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- Purna Chandra Jamatia ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Politician who does not meet WP:NPOL; the article was draftified and then cut&paste recreated by the draft creator. bonadea contributions talk 18:31, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
- Nominator's comment I have changed my opinion, see below. Leaving the nomination unstruck since there are !votes that agree with it. -- bonadea contributions talk 18:00, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, India, and Tripura. bonadea contributions talk 18:31, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Mccapra ( talk) 04:42, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
- Delete: Only Members of National or Sub-National Parliament are notable. He is only member of district council. 𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙♂️ Let's Talk ! 09:31, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
- Keep: Purna Chandra is an elected politician who passes
WP:NPOL.
122.161.65.92 (
talk) 04:20, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:NPOL says that politicians who have been members of legislative bodies at international, national, or state/province–wide office are notable but Jamatia has been member of legislative body at district level. 𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙♂️ Let's Talk ! 11:00, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
Delete As per NPOL this can still pass notability, if he has enough independent coverage. However, I can't find it. So delete per nom. Lordofhunter ( talk) 12:40, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
- Correct, and he is the state/province–wide office member and that is under State Government of India. Please check carefully the post. 122.161.65.92 ( talk) 12:43, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - the Chief Executive Member is clearly notable role. TTAADC is an autonomous body, which is in line with the requirements at WP:NPOL. --
Soman (
talk) 17:47, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
- To expand a bit - TTAADC is not just a district, it is a government with autonomy granted under the sixth schedule of the Constitution of India. TTAADC has legislative powers, akin to a subnational parliament. The CEM is the head of government in this entity. -- Soman ( talk) 13:32, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- Keep important to emphasise that not meeting NPOL is not grounds for deletion; NPOL is a positive test, passing NPOL allows for presumed notability. Not passing NPOL only means no presumed notability, no more or less, so one would need to establish whether or not the GNG applies. As for whather the Autonomous District Councils satisfy our classification as subnational parliaments - I'd probably agree. They clearly have more power than district level bodies and possess law making (as against regulatory) power. [1] Nevertheless, even if one does not accept that argument, the nomination makes no argument that the article's present sourcing fails the GNG.
References
-
^ Stuligross, David (1999).
"Autonomous Councils in Northeast India: Theory and Practice". Alternatives: Global, Local, Political. 24 (4): 497–525.
ISSN
0304-3754.
a third level of the Indian federal system: the autonomous district council (ADC) . Although Indian districts normally are merely administrative units without cultural content, ADCs - all of which are much larger than revenue districts and expand in one instance to include 26 million residents - are designed explicitly to provide representation to named ethnic communities. When India's constitution was promulgated in 1950, six regions comprising the bulk of the northeast Indian landmass were designated ADCs. These councils have less power than states but more than local gover- ments; they are intended to incorporate their predominantly tribal populations, as communities, into the Indian state. Analysis of India's innovative three-tiered federal arrangement deepens one's understanding of federal processes more generally
- Regards, -- Goldsztajn ( talk) 12:10, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I see two questions that need further clarification from this discussion 1) is an Autonomous District Council an entity that would pass WP:NPOL and 2) is the sourcing about the subject sufficient to pass WP:GNG?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Enos733 ( talk) 19:39, 15 December 2022 (UTC)- Question: @
Soman: and @
Goldsztajn:, using the diagram at
Administrative divisions of India#Tiers of India, where do
Autonomous administrative divisions of India fit?
S0091 (
talk) 17:41, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- I also posted a note at
WP:WikiProject India to solicit more input.
S0091 (
talk) 17:58, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- @
S0091 The quote above I provided from Stuligross notes the position of ADCs: below that of a state but above a district, although they technically have powers free from the state-level regulation and in judicial matters sit below the Supreme Court, rather than the state High Courts. The linked table is OR and mixes representational (ie elected) structures with administrative structures (eg the existing divisions are administrative organisational structures, not elected structures). The ADCs are 6th Schedule consitutionally mandated representative structures with law making powers; in many matters they are automous from state regulation and sit directly below national government. More details here:
The Sixth Schedule: The History of Tribal Autonomy in the Indian Constitution. Regards,
Goldsztajn (
talk) 23:13, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- @ Goldsztajn thanks, this is helpful. I still do not feel confident enough in my own understanding to provide a solid opinion but hopefully others will participate. There are a couple relevant AfC drafts, Draft:Suhel Debbarma and Draft:Jagadish Debbarma, which are impacted. The former I actually rejected, perhaps erroneously, and the latter is pending so I am interested in the outcome of this AfD. S0091 ( talk) 16:26, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
- @
S0091 The quote above I provided from Stuligross notes the position of ADCs: below that of a state but above a district, although they technically have powers free from the state-level regulation and in judicial matters sit below the Supreme Court, rather than the state High Courts. The linked table is OR and mixes representational (ie elected) structures with administrative structures (eg the existing divisions are administrative organisational structures, not elected structures). The ADCs are 6th Schedule consitutionally mandated representative structures with law making powers; in many matters they are automous from state regulation and sit directly below national government. More details here:
The Sixth Schedule: The History of Tribal Autonomy in the Indian Constitution. Regards,
Goldsztajn (
talk) 23:13, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- I also posted a note at
WP:WikiProject India to solicit more input.
S0091 (
talk) 17:58, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- Keep I agree with Goldsztajn. Autonomous District Councils satisfy Wikipedia's classification as subnational parliaments. They have more powers than a district level council. Gothamk ( talk) 03:14, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
- I lost track of this AfD discussion after nominating the article. Thank you, @ Soman: and @ Goldsztajn:, for your clarifications and explanations! Having read up on ADCs and their status, I would agree that an elected member of an ADC probably does meet WP:NPOL. (Btw, I see that my nomination appears to say that a politician has to meet WP:NPOL – I should have been clearer about the fact that I didn't think WP:BASIC was met.) Since there are "Delete" !votes I can't withdraw the nomination, but I'll change my own position to keep. -- bonadea contributions talk 18:00, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Striking my above delete vote based on the above explanation, and sharing how it is passing notability. Lordofhunter ( talk) 05:12, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 07:39, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
Purna Chandra Jamatia
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Purna Chandra Jamatia ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Politician who does not meet WP:NPOL; the article was draftified and then cut&paste recreated by the draft creator. bonadea contributions talk 18:31, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
- Nominator's comment I have changed my opinion, see below. Leaving the nomination unstruck since there are !votes that agree with it. -- bonadea contributions talk 18:00, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, India, and Tripura. bonadea contributions talk 18:31, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Mccapra ( talk) 04:42, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
- Delete: Only Members of National or Sub-National Parliament are notable. He is only member of district council. 𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙♂️ Let's Talk ! 09:31, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
- Keep: Purna Chandra is an elected politician who passes
WP:NPOL.
122.161.65.92 (
talk) 04:20, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:NPOL says that politicians who have been members of legislative bodies at international, national, or state/province–wide office are notable but Jamatia has been member of legislative body at district level. 𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙♂️ Let's Talk ! 11:00, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
Delete As per NPOL this can still pass notability, if he has enough independent coverage. However, I can't find it. So delete per nom. Lordofhunter ( talk) 12:40, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
- Correct, and he is the state/province–wide office member and that is under State Government of India. Please check carefully the post. 122.161.65.92 ( talk) 12:43, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - the Chief Executive Member is clearly notable role. TTAADC is an autonomous body, which is in line with the requirements at WP:NPOL. --
Soman (
talk) 17:47, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
- To expand a bit - TTAADC is not just a district, it is a government with autonomy granted under the sixth schedule of the Constitution of India. TTAADC has legislative powers, akin to a subnational parliament. The CEM is the head of government in this entity. -- Soman ( talk) 13:32, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- Keep important to emphasise that not meeting NPOL is not grounds for deletion; NPOL is a positive test, passing NPOL allows for presumed notability. Not passing NPOL only means no presumed notability, no more or less, so one would need to establish whether or not the GNG applies. As for whather the Autonomous District Councils satisfy our classification as subnational parliaments - I'd probably agree. They clearly have more power than district level bodies and possess law making (as against regulatory) power. [1] Nevertheless, even if one does not accept that argument, the nomination makes no argument that the article's present sourcing fails the GNG.
References
-
^ Stuligross, David (1999).
"Autonomous Councils in Northeast India: Theory and Practice". Alternatives: Global, Local, Political. 24 (4): 497–525.
ISSN
0304-3754.
a third level of the Indian federal system: the autonomous district council (ADC) . Although Indian districts normally are merely administrative units without cultural content, ADCs - all of which are much larger than revenue districts and expand in one instance to include 26 million residents - are designed explicitly to provide representation to named ethnic communities. When India's constitution was promulgated in 1950, six regions comprising the bulk of the northeast Indian landmass were designated ADCs. These councils have less power than states but more than local gover- ments; they are intended to incorporate their predominantly tribal populations, as communities, into the Indian state. Analysis of India's innovative three-tiered federal arrangement deepens one's understanding of federal processes more generally
- Regards, -- Goldsztajn ( talk) 12:10, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I see two questions that need further clarification from this discussion 1) is an Autonomous District Council an entity that would pass WP:NPOL and 2) is the sourcing about the subject sufficient to pass WP:GNG?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Enos733 ( talk) 19:39, 15 December 2022 (UTC)- Question: @
Soman: and @
Goldsztajn:, using the diagram at
Administrative divisions of India#Tiers of India, where do
Autonomous administrative divisions of India fit?
S0091 (
talk) 17:41, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- I also posted a note at
WP:WikiProject India to solicit more input.
S0091 (
talk) 17:58, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- @
S0091 The quote above I provided from Stuligross notes the position of ADCs: below that of a state but above a district, although they technically have powers free from the state-level regulation and in judicial matters sit below the Supreme Court, rather than the state High Courts. The linked table is OR and mixes representational (ie elected) structures with administrative structures (eg the existing divisions are administrative organisational structures, not elected structures). The ADCs are 6th Schedule consitutionally mandated representative structures with law making powers; in many matters they are automous from state regulation and sit directly below national government. More details here:
The Sixth Schedule: The History of Tribal Autonomy in the Indian Constitution. Regards,
Goldsztajn (
talk) 23:13, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- @ Goldsztajn thanks, this is helpful. I still do not feel confident enough in my own understanding to provide a solid opinion but hopefully others will participate. There are a couple relevant AfC drafts, Draft:Suhel Debbarma and Draft:Jagadish Debbarma, which are impacted. The former I actually rejected, perhaps erroneously, and the latter is pending so I am interested in the outcome of this AfD. S0091 ( talk) 16:26, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
- @
S0091 The quote above I provided from Stuligross notes the position of ADCs: below that of a state but above a district, although they technically have powers free from the state-level regulation and in judicial matters sit below the Supreme Court, rather than the state High Courts. The linked table is OR and mixes representational (ie elected) structures with administrative structures (eg the existing divisions are administrative organisational structures, not elected structures). The ADCs are 6th Schedule consitutionally mandated representative structures with law making powers; in many matters they are automous from state regulation and sit directly below national government. More details here:
The Sixth Schedule: The History of Tribal Autonomy in the Indian Constitution. Regards,
Goldsztajn (
talk) 23:13, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- I also posted a note at
WP:WikiProject India to solicit more input.
S0091 (
talk) 17:58, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- Keep I agree with Goldsztajn. Autonomous District Councils satisfy Wikipedia's classification as subnational parliaments. They have more powers than a district level council. Gothamk ( talk) 03:14, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
- I lost track of this AfD discussion after nominating the article. Thank you, @ Soman: and @ Goldsztajn:, for your clarifications and explanations! Having read up on ADCs and their status, I would agree that an elected member of an ADC probably does meet WP:NPOL. (Btw, I see that my nomination appears to say that a politician has to meet WP:NPOL – I should have been clearer about the fact that I didn't think WP:BASIC was met.) Since there are "Delete" !votes I can't withdraw the nomination, but I'll change my own position to keep. -- bonadea contributions talk 18:00, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Striking my above delete vote based on the above explanation, and sharing how it is passing notability. Lordofhunter ( talk) 05:12, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.