- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Fenix down ( talk) 13:56, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
Patryk Aleksandrowicz
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- Patryk Aleksandrowicz ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The subject seems to fail WP:NBIO and possibly WP:NFOOTY? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:06, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:06, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:06, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
- Delete non notable, theres nothing in the article that is reliable, verifiable, independent, he appears not to have played at higher levels -- Devokewater (talk) 11:18, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
- Delete does not even meet our already insanely overbroad notability criteria for footballers. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 19:22, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 10:36, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep - clearly meets WP:NFOOTBALL through dozens of appearances in the Greek leagues, tiers 1 and 3 ( Super League Greece and Football League Greece, both of which are listed at WP:FPL), as confirmed by Soccerway and 90minut, sources which are both already present in the article. So please tell me @ Piotrus: how you undertook WP:BEFORE; please tell me @ Devokewater: why you state there is nothing reliable, verifiable or independent when there is, or how he has not "played at higher levels" when he has; and please tell me @ Johnpacklambert: how he does not meet NFOOTBALL when he does? Article needs improving, for sure, but do not lie and say he doesn't meet NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 10:41, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Sources I have found, speaking neither Polish nor Greek -
this about Polish footballers in Greece,
this which seems to say he also made 3 appearances in the Polish top division...
Giant
Snowman
10:51, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Hi
Giant
Snowman there’s nothing to suggest that he is a notable footballer IMHO he is the equivalent of a UK non-league player, who has played a couple of games as a squad player in the lower echelons of football. He’s played in Greece, OK no disrespect but that’s like playing in the Scottish third division. --
Devokewater
(talk)
11:38, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- No, there is - he meets
WP:NFOOTBALL. He has made numerous appearances in a
WP:FPL - so he is notable, where a Scottish third division player would not be (because the Scottish 3rd division is not. FPL). If you cannot differentiate between the two then, respectfully, you should not be commenting on these kind of AFDs.
Giant
Snowman
11:40, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- On the contrary, we need more input from people who are not fans, i.e. have no CoI. It's is funny we tend to say "don't edit articles about your company or family" but we have no problems with fans of topic x creating policies which say "anything related to x is notable". -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:43, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- No, there is - he meets
WP:NFOOTBALL. He has made numerous appearances in a
WP:FPL - so he is notable, where a Scottish third division player would not be (because the Scottish 3rd division is not. FPL). If you cannot differentiate between the two then, respectfully, you should not be commenting on these kind of AFDs.
Giant
Snowman
11:40, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- (
edit conflict) Neither of the cites linked strikes me as particularly reliable, and I still don't see any coverage satisfying GNG. NFOOTY can be helpful in borderline cases, but right now this not appear to be borderline. --
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
11:43, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- @ Piotrus: - both are considered reliable and very widely used on Wikipedia. What about the other sources I have also found, given you failed to undertake BEFORE? Giant Snowman 14:01, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Hi
Giant
Snowman there’s nothing to suggest that he is a notable footballer IMHO he is the equivalent of a UK non-league player, who has played a couple of games as a squad player in the lower echelons of football. He’s played in Greece, OK no disrespect but that’s like playing in the Scottish third division. --
Devokewater
(talk)
11:38, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Sources I have found, speaking neither Polish nor Greek -
this about Polish footballers in Greece,
this which seems to say he also made 3 appearances in the Polish top division...
Giant
Snowman
10:51, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment I find it hard to believe he can be notable for playing for a club for which we lack an article. Especially after having seen so many articles on clubs with horrendously low sourcing. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 11:58, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- @ Johnpacklambert: - eh? He's played for a large number of clubs in top tier of Poland and Greece, we have articles about the clubs and the leagues, so why are you talking about 'a club for which we lack an article'? Giant Snowman 14:00, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep, copying over my rationale from the talk page, when I dePRODed this article back in July:
- "He meets NFOOTY through his appearances in four leagues that are listed at
WP:FPL: the Ekstraklasa in Poland and the Super League, Football League, and Gamma Ethniki in Greece. In total, he has played three matches in the Ekstraklasa (as shown at
this source) and 194 games in the three Greek leagues (as shown at
Soccerway and
90minut). For GNG, his
90minut profile lists several articles dating back to 2013. He has received coverage in
Gazeta Wyborcza, shown
here, as well as the papers in
Toruń, shown
here. In Greek, his name is "Πάτρικ Αλεξάντροβιτς", and a search of that (
on Google) turns up some 6,000 results as well."
Keskkonnakaitse (
talk)
14:06, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- IMHO, mentions in passing or niche portals. Btw, Gazeta.pl =/= Gazeta Wyborcza. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:29, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - Kijawianka team...hua? no brainer delete. - GizzyCatBella 🍁 04:11, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
- @
GizzyCatBella: sorry, what does that mean?
Giant
Snowman
21:20, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
- It’s the team he is playing now, very small, IV division, he did play for
Polonia Warsaw back in a day thou -
GizzyCatBella
🍁
01:24, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- That logic does not work. The fact he now plays for a minor team is irrelevant; what is relevant is his long career playing in top leagues for a number of years. By your logic former Presidents would not be notable! Giant Snowman 10:02, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- It’s the team he is playing now, very small, IV division, he did play for
Polonia Warsaw back in a day thou -
GizzyCatBella
🍁
01:24, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- @
GizzyCatBella: sorry, what does that mean?
Giant
Snowman
21:20, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep per NFOOTY pass. Microwave Anarchist ( talk) 00:08, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep - easily meets NFOOTY. I don't know why User:Piotrus hasn't withdrawn this nomination! Nfitz ( talk) 04:22, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep as pro-footballer meets NFOOTY.-- Bob not snob ( talk) 06:58, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep per arguments above. REDMAN 2019 ( talk) 14:37, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Fenix down ( talk) 13:56, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
Patryk Aleksandrowicz
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Patryk Aleksandrowicz ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The subject seems to fail WP:NBIO and possibly WP:NFOOTY? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:06, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:06, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:06, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
- Delete non notable, theres nothing in the article that is reliable, verifiable, independent, he appears not to have played at higher levels -- Devokewater (talk) 11:18, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
- Delete does not even meet our already insanely overbroad notability criteria for footballers. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 19:22, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 10:36, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep - clearly meets WP:NFOOTBALL through dozens of appearances in the Greek leagues, tiers 1 and 3 ( Super League Greece and Football League Greece, both of which are listed at WP:FPL), as confirmed by Soccerway and 90minut, sources which are both already present in the article. So please tell me @ Piotrus: how you undertook WP:BEFORE; please tell me @ Devokewater: why you state there is nothing reliable, verifiable or independent when there is, or how he has not "played at higher levels" when he has; and please tell me @ Johnpacklambert: how he does not meet NFOOTBALL when he does? Article needs improving, for sure, but do not lie and say he doesn't meet NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 10:41, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Sources I have found, speaking neither Polish nor Greek -
this about Polish footballers in Greece,
this which seems to say he also made 3 appearances in the Polish top division...
Giant
Snowman
10:51, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Hi
Giant
Snowman there’s nothing to suggest that he is a notable footballer IMHO he is the equivalent of a UK non-league player, who has played a couple of games as a squad player in the lower echelons of football. He’s played in Greece, OK no disrespect but that’s like playing in the Scottish third division. --
Devokewater
(talk)
11:38, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- No, there is - he meets
WP:NFOOTBALL. He has made numerous appearances in a
WP:FPL - so he is notable, where a Scottish third division player would not be (because the Scottish 3rd division is not. FPL). If you cannot differentiate between the two then, respectfully, you should not be commenting on these kind of AFDs.
Giant
Snowman
11:40, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- On the contrary, we need more input from people who are not fans, i.e. have no CoI. It's is funny we tend to say "don't edit articles about your company or family" but we have no problems with fans of topic x creating policies which say "anything related to x is notable". -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:43, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- No, there is - he meets
WP:NFOOTBALL. He has made numerous appearances in a
WP:FPL - so he is notable, where a Scottish third division player would not be (because the Scottish 3rd division is not. FPL). If you cannot differentiate between the two then, respectfully, you should not be commenting on these kind of AFDs.
Giant
Snowman
11:40, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- (
edit conflict) Neither of the cites linked strikes me as particularly reliable, and I still don't see any coverage satisfying GNG. NFOOTY can be helpful in borderline cases, but right now this not appear to be borderline. --
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
11:43, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- @ Piotrus: - both are considered reliable and very widely used on Wikipedia. What about the other sources I have also found, given you failed to undertake BEFORE? Giant Snowman 14:01, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Hi
Giant
Snowman there’s nothing to suggest that he is a notable footballer IMHO he is the equivalent of a UK non-league player, who has played a couple of games as a squad player in the lower echelons of football. He’s played in Greece, OK no disrespect but that’s like playing in the Scottish third division. --
Devokewater
(talk)
11:38, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Sources I have found, speaking neither Polish nor Greek -
this about Polish footballers in Greece,
this which seems to say he also made 3 appearances in the Polish top division...
Giant
Snowman
10:51, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment I find it hard to believe he can be notable for playing for a club for which we lack an article. Especially after having seen so many articles on clubs with horrendously low sourcing. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 11:58, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- @ Johnpacklambert: - eh? He's played for a large number of clubs in top tier of Poland and Greece, we have articles about the clubs and the leagues, so why are you talking about 'a club for which we lack an article'? Giant Snowman 14:00, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep, copying over my rationale from the talk page, when I dePRODed this article back in July:
- "He meets NFOOTY through his appearances in four leagues that are listed at
WP:FPL: the Ekstraklasa in Poland and the Super League, Football League, and Gamma Ethniki in Greece. In total, he has played three matches in the Ekstraklasa (as shown at
this source) and 194 games in the three Greek leagues (as shown at
Soccerway and
90minut). For GNG, his
90minut profile lists several articles dating back to 2013. He has received coverage in
Gazeta Wyborcza, shown
here, as well as the papers in
Toruń, shown
here. In Greek, his name is "Πάτρικ Αλεξάντροβιτς", and a search of that (
on Google) turns up some 6,000 results as well."
Keskkonnakaitse (
talk)
14:06, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
- IMHO, mentions in passing or niche portals. Btw, Gazeta.pl =/= Gazeta Wyborcza. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:29, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
- Delete - Kijawianka team...hua? no brainer delete. - GizzyCatBella 🍁 04:11, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
- @
GizzyCatBella: sorry, what does that mean?
Giant
Snowman
21:20, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
- It’s the team he is playing now, very small, IV division, he did play for
Polonia Warsaw back in a day thou -
GizzyCatBella
🍁
01:24, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- That logic does not work. The fact he now plays for a minor team is irrelevant; what is relevant is his long career playing in top leagues for a number of years. By your logic former Presidents would not be notable! Giant Snowman 10:02, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- It’s the team he is playing now, very small, IV division, he did play for
Polonia Warsaw back in a day thou -
GizzyCatBella
🍁
01:24, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- @
GizzyCatBella: sorry, what does that mean?
Giant
Snowman
21:20, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep per NFOOTY pass. Microwave Anarchist ( talk) 00:08, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep - easily meets NFOOTY. I don't know why User:Piotrus hasn't withdrawn this nomination! Nfitz ( talk) 04:22, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep as pro-footballer meets NFOOTY.-- Bob not snob ( talk) 06:58, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep per arguments above. REDMAN 2019 ( talk) 14:37, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.