- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. I closed this a week ago with the following rationale: "The result was delete. Several of the "keep" votes are clearly not based in policy: I see people citing NMUSIC#1, yet no SIGCOV has been provided; I also see people citing NMUSIC 5, and yet the article does not seem to show that any album has been released, let alone one on a major label (yes, I can see she has appeared as a singer on film soundtracks; that's not the same thing)."
I relisted it upon request, yet the consensus has only gotten clearer since then.
Vanamonde (
Talk) 19:49, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
Parul Mishra
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- Parul Mishra ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
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Was tagged for notability for a couple of weeks without improvement. Moved to draftspace, but was objected to and moved back to mainspace, again without improvement. They have no awards, charting, touring, and no other notable songs besides the one that she seems to have just been hired to sing. I don't see them meeting WP:MUSICBIO. At this point, the song she's most known for is a 5 episode web series called Aspirants. Right now sourced by puff pieces from sources which are not deemed reliable when it comes to show business articles. Fails WP:GNG. Onel5969 TT me 22:19, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, and Uttar Pradesh. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 22:28, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete it looks like the editor was provided with plenty of opportunities to meet either WP:SINGER or WP:GNG since original review and the next move is deletion, given it fails on both. It seems that several short articles from ETimes, an entertainment platform of Times of India, are erroneously identified as Times of India in footnotes and are not used to support any claims of notability (current sources 1 to 4 are included as citations for the first sentence of the lead introducing the subject). Some more recent sources include a blog and a YouTube video, failing WP:V. Ppt91 ( talk) 02:33, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
- STRONG KEEP The source is meeting the criteria WP:MUSICBIO or WP:SINGER numbered 1,5,6 and 9. The source have more than two albums/songs on a major record label like T-Series, Big Music, Zee Studios.
The source has won reality show which was judged by non other than Oscar award winner and Composer A. R. Rahman himself and gave source the first major break. In one of the reference, he himself praising the source. Times of India reference provided where the Padma Vibhushan (The second highest civilian award of India) winner Birju Maharaj praising her albums. In another reference, Indian composer Louis Banks is impressed with the source and her singing talent. List of awards included one by the Government of India. If all this does not seems enough then 99% of the article of Wikipedia must be deleted. I strongly against the deletion of this Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Risu43 ( talk • contribs) 04:28, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
- Well that's a bit silly to imply that this person is more notable than 99% of Wikipedia. Notable people praising someone does not make the person being praised notable. "
has won reality show..
" - Are you referring to the contest hosted by a radio station ("Fever 104 SING WITH A.R. RAHMAN CONTEST")? "List of awards included one by the Government of India.
" - It looks like this was a scholarship, but I'm having trouble finding a mention of it. Hey man im josh ( talk) 19:56, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
- Well that's a bit silly to imply that this person is more notable than 99% of Wikipedia. Notable people praising someone does not make the person being praised notable. "
- Delete: I dug into this a good bit and I agree with the nomination. Fails to meet
WP:MUSICBIO at this point in time.
Hey man im josh (
talk) 19:20, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
- Hi, Give your justification why not meeting WP: Music. If you look carefully, it say - " Musicians or ensembles (this category includes bands, singers, rappers, orchestras, DJs, musical theatre groups, instrumentalists, etc.) may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria.".
- -Song named "Hai Kamaal" from movie Thalaivii is on T-Series, one of the best record label of India.
- - Song named "Nazdeekiyan" from movie Hum Bhi Akele Tum Bhi Akele is on Zee Music Company, another famous record label.
- - Song named " Ishq Ada" from movie Ada... A way of Life is on Big Music.
- All these justify criteria numbered 5 of WP: Music.
- Further more The times of India and other references provided are reliable source independent of the subject which justify criteria numbered 1 of WP: Music.
- Risu43 ( talk) 04:46, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Many sources. NYC Guru ( talk) 12:21, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. There's enough, I believe. BoyTheKingCanDance ( talk) 02:48, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Taking Out The Trash ( talk) 03:25, 17 February 2023 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 06:05, 24 February 2023 (UTC)- Delete I agree with the discussion above, the sources seem to be misrepresented, having a listing on a gov't website doesn't imply notability. Rest of the items seem as trivial, I don't see any at-length discussion about this person. MUSIC not met.
Oaktree b (
talk) 14:38, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
- @ Oaktree b could you please answer the below points:
- - What do you mean by at-length discussion? Are you expecting a newspaper to write an essay on the source?
- - Have you ever read what is written in WP: Music? What is the criteria under which a musician/singer can be consider notable as per WP: Music.?
- Now to answer you, the source is clearly meeting criteria no 1, 5, 6 and 8 of WP: Music. already elaborated above in details.
- The reference numbered 1 to 6 are all detailed article and are not just trivial.
- So could you please give a second thought on your viewpoint!! Thanks! Risu43 ( talk) 18:47, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete I agree with the discussion above, the sources seem to be misrepresented, having a listing on a gov't website doesn't imply notability. Rest of the items seem as trivial, I don't see any at-length discussion about this person. MUSIC not met.
Oaktree b (
talk) 14:38, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
deletion sorting lists for the following topics:
Music and
India.
Spiderone
(Talk to Spider) 11:20, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, we'd expect some sort of an article on the person, not just name drops. An essay is what we could use for notability. MUSIC is having a charted single, a gold album, multi-sales awards and the like. This wiki article doesn't have any of those.
Oaktree b (
talk) 00:34, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
- @ Oaktree b could you please go through WP: Music. again. I guess you overlooked one of the key vital point: At least one of the criteria is sufficient to establish the notability under WP: Music.
- Let me cite the phase directly from WP: Music.
- "
Musicians or ensembles (this category includes bands, singers, rappers, orchestras, DJs, musical theatre groups, instrumentalists, etc.) may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria
". - Repeating again, the source is clearly meeting criteria no 1, 5, 6 and 8 of WP: Music.
- The source is not that rich enough to pay the newspaper to write an essay on her. Generally Musicians/Singer are known by their work, so any article covering their work is same as covering about the source specifically. If you go through the articles bit more carefully and also the articles in Hindi language, you will understand that it's not just a name drop, it happens to discuss the source in few lines subject to her work.
- Having said that, if all the references are put together, this makes a good case for WP:NBASIC.
- Thanks! Risu43 ( talk) 05:01, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, we'd expect some sort of an article on the person, not just name drops. An essay is what we could use for notability. MUSIC is having a charted single, a gold album, multi-sales awards and the like. This wiki article doesn't have any of those.
Oaktree b (
talk) 00:34, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: Concur with the reasoning by Ppt91 and nominator. There's some ref-bombing around the award, but questionable if the award is notable (no article here) enough to help meet NBIO/NMUSIC. Parts of the discography aren't sourced, including the first album (with only a single song?). Nothing in article body about the albums and having reviews from notable reviewers would be helpful to show their work being noticed. There's a lot of passing mentions in the sources, but more is needed and it's just not here from good quality sources.
Ravensfire (
talk) 22:01, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Ravensfire,
- Naushaad Sangeet Samman award is one of the prestigious regional award given by Govt of UP. Renowned and world famous artistes like Ustad Amjad Ali Khan, Kalyanji- Anandji, Khayyam, Pt Shiv Kumar sharma, Hema Malini, Rekha Bhardwaj, Sonu Nigam, Talat Aziz etc have been awarded with this prestigious award. To answer you, yes it is notable enough to meet NBIO/NMUSIC.
- Also as per NMUSIC, At least one of the criteria is sufficient to establish the notability and the source is clearly meeting criteria no 1, 5, 6 and 8.
- Hence meeting WP:MUSICBIO.
- Tell me one singer/musician's Wikipedia where ALL the discography are sourced. Please provide me just one.
- Times of India reference provided where the Padma Vibhushan (The second highest civilian award of India) winner Birju Maharaj praising her albums. In another reference, Indian composer Louis Banks is impressed with the source, her albums and her singing talents.
- So I disagree with your comment - Nothing in article body about the albums and having reviews from notable reviewers would be helpful to show their work being noticed.
- In additional to that, WP: ANYBIO allows that if the depth of the coverage in any of the given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability. I believe there is enough non-trivial mentions to allow for an article on this subject.
-
Risu43 (
talk) 04:23, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
- NMUSIC 1 - maybe, at best. A lot of passing mentions, interviews and fluff which doesn't meet this.
- NMUSIC 5 - not met, no sourced information in article about which label released the albums and some searches suggest the second one is independent. The first has, according to the article, one song - that does not make an album.
- NMUSIC 6 - nothing in article to support this.
- NMUSIC 8 - sorry, a non-notable regional award is NOT a major award at the level listed in the article.
- As NMUSIC notes, meeting the criteria MAY be notable. Taking the article as a whole, it's just not there for this person. And please read WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS - we're talking about this article, and issues with this article, I know quite well there are a lot of other poor quality articles pushed by fans and PR groups associated with artists. Can't fix that here, you're more than welcome to nominate other articles for deletion that you feel aren't up to par. Ravensfire ( talk) 16:48, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde ( Talk) 16:24, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
Comment: I don't know why few people enjoy deleting articles. It's means wasted efforts of author who put hell lots of time on doing the research work on subject, editors and even reviewers. Yeah I understand that crap should be removed but people should not come so hard and show some humility as Wikipedia article is always work-in-progress and never completed. I believe in expanding the Wikipedia with good articles and content. Having said that I like to highlight few things as this is the final listing.
1. WP:MUSICBIO #1 is meeting along with GNG/SIGCOV. Please find the below reliable independent reference which show significant coverage.
2. WP:MUSICBIO #10 and #5: Had sung in movies like Ada... A Way of Life] (music is on Big Music record level) , Hum Bhi Akele Tum Bhi Akele (music on Zee Music Company), Thalaivii (music on T-Series), and few web series like Aspirants, Flames. All these movies and web series are notable and have Wikipedia articles and their music are on renowned music label. Besides she has been a part of few reality show like Sa Re Ga Ma Pa 2012 and MTV Rock On which are again notable and have their Wikipedia page too WP:REALITYSINGER.
3. WP:MUSICBIO 8#: Awarded with Naushaad Sangeet Samman award presented by Department of Culture, Government of Uttar Pradesh. Renowned and world famous artistes like Ustad Amjad Ali Khan, Kalyanji-Anandji, Khayyam, Shivkumar Sharma, Hema Malini, Rekha Bhardwaj, Sonu Nigam, Talat Aziz etc have been awarded with this prestigious award, all being notable and Wikipedia have their pages. According to few editors only music awards like Grammy, Juno, Mercury, Choice or Grammys award are notable, so if that the case then India and many more country don't have any notable music awards..?? I like to bring it to your attention that the awards mentioned above should be treated as an example and not as a final list of music award across global. Naushaad Sangeet Samman award is a notable award and every year more 30-40 independent reliable newspaper cover this award which itself demonstrate the notability.
4. A Google search of the Subject Parul Mishra , shows significant search results. Moreover the subject has been listed on IMDb, Spotify , Apple Music, JioSaavn, Hungama , Wynk. Subject also have a verified Facebook page . All these show some notability.
5. Song listings available on MusicBrainz which again demonstrate some sort of notability as per Resources section in WP:MUSIC.
So as per WP: ANYBIO and WP:NBASIC, combining all these, results in a significant notability, allowing an article on the subject. Risu43 ( talk) 17:39, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Hi. You might want to drop the
WP:STICK, it's not helping your cause.
Onel5969
TT me 22:53, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Hi, I am not saying anything in air. Whatever I have mentioned, I hv cited Wikipedia policy.
- So request you to go through those before voting, be it WP:MUSICBIO #10 or #5.
- And please don't Control+F in the newspaper articles rather try to read the entire content.
Risu43 (
talk) 03:54, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
- Risu43, you do know that practically any artist can get listed on streaming music services even if no one listens to their work. And you can create your own bio on IMDB, I've seen IMDB profiles of a lot of people who have YouTube channels (or "actors" who have no films/TV series listed at all) so it is not evidence of notability either. Liz Read! Talk! 04:31, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
- Delete The award not a notable award. Not sure if it's a state government award either. UP dept of culture has no mention of this award on their website
[1]. It's probably linked to
Awadh Samman (also likely a non-notable award, falsely claiming to be a state government award). Even if it is a government award, it's just a regional award, with no significant coverage. There's nothing else in the article, to establish notability. —
hako9 (
talk) 19:20, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
-
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]
[6]
[7]
[8]
[9]
[10]
[11]
[12] for your reference.
Risu43 (
talk) 10:05, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Getting an award is not tantamount to significant coverage, especially when it is a non-notable award. You can produce a 100 more sources mentioning her getting this award. It would still not warrant an article. —
hako9 (
talk) 15:01, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- I don't see why it is not meeting notability as per
Wikipedia:Notability (awards and medals). Please provide your justification.
Risu43 (
talk) 15:50, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Exclusionary Criteria #3 - The award is granted for promotional reasons by promotional entities.
- Or, if you consider this a government award
- Exclusionary Criteria #4 -The award has been created by a local government and the award is generally unknown outside of that local government's area.
- That essay btw, is relevant for arguing about the notability of the award itself. It is possible that an individual who is granted this non-notable award, may himself/herself be notable for reasons other than being the recipient of this award. In which case, you need to point out why is this individual notable. All you have argued is that she got this award, so she is notable. —
hako9 (
talk) 16:08, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Who is the promotional entities here according to you?
- You can go through the my comment where I presented by argument why she is notable aligned with Wikipedia policy and guidelines and have cited appropriate references. You might have misunderstood brother.
Risu43 (
talk) 16:25, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
Who is the promotional entities here according to you?
The organiser of the Awadh Festival, i.e Hunar Creations Craft Association in this case.You can go through the my comment where I presented by argument why she is notable
I did. Unfortunately, I reached a different conclusion. — hako9 ( talk) 16:54, 11 March 2023 (UTC)- According to the government website reference
[13], the Awadh Mahotsav (Festival) is organised by UP Tourism, UP state cultural department and UPSNA in association with Govt of Uttar Pradesh and Govt of India.
Risu43 (
talk) 17:19, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Is Awadh Sammaan or Naushaad Sammaan, or whatever it's called, even mentioned on
[14] or
[15] ? All of this is a moot point btw. I would still vote delete, in case this is a government recognized award, since it's just a local award. It is
WP:NOTEWORTHY enough to be mentioned in the article, but getting this award doesn't establish notability in itself. —
hako9 (
talk) 17:44, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- I beg to differ here. If a award recognized by a government of a country is not enough to be notable then I have nothing to say. I have already presented my case with proper references, aligned with Wikipedia policy and guideline and combining all the references cited results in a significant notability, allowing an article on the subject as per WPNBasic and WPANYBIO. I took the responsibility of improving this page on time to time base but I am against the deletion of he page. Risu43 ( talk) 17:56, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Is Awadh Sammaan or Naushaad Sammaan, or whatever it's called, even mentioned on
[14] or
[15] ? All of this is a moot point btw. I would still vote delete, in case this is a government recognized award, since it's just a local award. It is
WP:NOTEWORTHY enough to be mentioned in the article, but getting this award doesn't establish notability in itself. —
hako9 (
talk) 17:44, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- According to the government website reference
[13], the Awadh Mahotsav (Festival) is organised by UP Tourism, UP state cultural department and UPSNA in association with Govt of Uttar Pradesh and Govt of India.
Risu43 (
talk) 17:19, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- I don't see why it is not meeting notability as per
Wikipedia:Notability (awards and medals). Please provide your justification.
Risu43 (
talk) 15:50, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Getting an award is not tantamount to significant coverage, especially when it is a non-notable award. You can produce a 100 more sources mentioning her getting this award. It would still not warrant an article. —
hako9 (
talk) 15:01, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
-
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]
[6]
[7]
[8]
[9]
[10]
[11]
[12] for your reference.
Risu43 (
talk) 10:05, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. I closed this a week ago with the following rationale: "The result was delete. Several of the "keep" votes are clearly not based in policy: I see people citing NMUSIC#1, yet no SIGCOV has been provided; I also see people citing NMUSIC 5, and yet the article does not seem to show that any album has been released, let alone one on a major label (yes, I can see she has appeared as a singer on film soundtracks; that's not the same thing)."
I relisted it upon request, yet the consensus has only gotten clearer since then.
Vanamonde (
Talk) 19:49, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
Parul Mishra
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Parul Mishra ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Was tagged for notability for a couple of weeks without improvement. Moved to draftspace, but was objected to and moved back to mainspace, again without improvement. They have no awards, charting, touring, and no other notable songs besides the one that she seems to have just been hired to sing. I don't see them meeting WP:MUSICBIO. At this point, the song she's most known for is a 5 episode web series called Aspirants. Right now sourced by puff pieces from sources which are not deemed reliable when it comes to show business articles. Fails WP:GNG. Onel5969 TT me 22:19, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, and Uttar Pradesh. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 22:28, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete it looks like the editor was provided with plenty of opportunities to meet either WP:SINGER or WP:GNG since original review and the next move is deletion, given it fails on both. It seems that several short articles from ETimes, an entertainment platform of Times of India, are erroneously identified as Times of India in footnotes and are not used to support any claims of notability (current sources 1 to 4 are included as citations for the first sentence of the lead introducing the subject). Some more recent sources include a blog and a YouTube video, failing WP:V. Ppt91 ( talk) 02:33, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
- STRONG KEEP The source is meeting the criteria WP:MUSICBIO or WP:SINGER numbered 1,5,6 and 9. The source have more than two albums/songs on a major record label like T-Series, Big Music, Zee Studios.
The source has won reality show which was judged by non other than Oscar award winner and Composer A. R. Rahman himself and gave source the first major break. In one of the reference, he himself praising the source. Times of India reference provided where the Padma Vibhushan (The second highest civilian award of India) winner Birju Maharaj praising her albums. In another reference, Indian composer Louis Banks is impressed with the source and her singing talent. List of awards included one by the Government of India. If all this does not seems enough then 99% of the article of Wikipedia must be deleted. I strongly against the deletion of this Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Risu43 ( talk • contribs) 04:28, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
- Well that's a bit silly to imply that this person is more notable than 99% of Wikipedia. Notable people praising someone does not make the person being praised notable. "
has won reality show..
" - Are you referring to the contest hosted by a radio station ("Fever 104 SING WITH A.R. RAHMAN CONTEST")? "List of awards included one by the Government of India.
" - It looks like this was a scholarship, but I'm having trouble finding a mention of it. Hey man im josh ( talk) 19:56, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
- Well that's a bit silly to imply that this person is more notable than 99% of Wikipedia. Notable people praising someone does not make the person being praised notable. "
- Delete: I dug into this a good bit and I agree with the nomination. Fails to meet
WP:MUSICBIO at this point in time.
Hey man im josh (
talk) 19:20, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
- Hi, Give your justification why not meeting WP: Music. If you look carefully, it say - " Musicians or ensembles (this category includes bands, singers, rappers, orchestras, DJs, musical theatre groups, instrumentalists, etc.) may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria.".
- -Song named "Hai Kamaal" from movie Thalaivii is on T-Series, one of the best record label of India.
- - Song named "Nazdeekiyan" from movie Hum Bhi Akele Tum Bhi Akele is on Zee Music Company, another famous record label.
- - Song named " Ishq Ada" from movie Ada... A way of Life is on Big Music.
- All these justify criteria numbered 5 of WP: Music.
- Further more The times of India and other references provided are reliable source independent of the subject which justify criteria numbered 1 of WP: Music.
- Risu43 ( talk) 04:46, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Many sources. NYC Guru ( talk) 12:21, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. There's enough, I believe. BoyTheKingCanDance ( talk) 02:48, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Taking Out The Trash ( talk) 03:25, 17 February 2023 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 06:05, 24 February 2023 (UTC)- Delete I agree with the discussion above, the sources seem to be misrepresented, having a listing on a gov't website doesn't imply notability. Rest of the items seem as trivial, I don't see any at-length discussion about this person. MUSIC not met.
Oaktree b (
talk) 14:38, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
- @ Oaktree b could you please answer the below points:
- - What do you mean by at-length discussion? Are you expecting a newspaper to write an essay on the source?
- - Have you ever read what is written in WP: Music? What is the criteria under which a musician/singer can be consider notable as per WP: Music.?
- Now to answer you, the source is clearly meeting criteria no 1, 5, 6 and 8 of WP: Music. already elaborated above in details.
- The reference numbered 1 to 6 are all detailed article and are not just trivial.
- So could you please give a second thought on your viewpoint!! Thanks! Risu43 ( talk) 18:47, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete I agree with the discussion above, the sources seem to be misrepresented, having a listing on a gov't website doesn't imply notability. Rest of the items seem as trivial, I don't see any at-length discussion about this person. MUSIC not met.
Oaktree b (
talk) 14:38, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
deletion sorting lists for the following topics:
Music and
India.
Spiderone
(Talk to Spider) 11:20, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, we'd expect some sort of an article on the person, not just name drops. An essay is what we could use for notability. MUSIC is having a charted single, a gold album, multi-sales awards and the like. This wiki article doesn't have any of those.
Oaktree b (
talk) 00:34, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
- @ Oaktree b could you please go through WP: Music. again. I guess you overlooked one of the key vital point: At least one of the criteria is sufficient to establish the notability under WP: Music.
- Let me cite the phase directly from WP: Music.
- "
Musicians or ensembles (this category includes bands, singers, rappers, orchestras, DJs, musical theatre groups, instrumentalists, etc.) may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria
". - Repeating again, the source is clearly meeting criteria no 1, 5, 6 and 8 of WP: Music.
- The source is not that rich enough to pay the newspaper to write an essay on her. Generally Musicians/Singer are known by their work, so any article covering their work is same as covering about the source specifically. If you go through the articles bit more carefully and also the articles in Hindi language, you will understand that it's not just a name drop, it happens to discuss the source in few lines subject to her work.
- Having said that, if all the references are put together, this makes a good case for WP:NBASIC.
- Thanks! Risu43 ( talk) 05:01, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, we'd expect some sort of an article on the person, not just name drops. An essay is what we could use for notability. MUSIC is having a charted single, a gold album, multi-sales awards and the like. This wiki article doesn't have any of those.
Oaktree b (
talk) 00:34, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: Concur with the reasoning by Ppt91 and nominator. There's some ref-bombing around the award, but questionable if the award is notable (no article here) enough to help meet NBIO/NMUSIC. Parts of the discography aren't sourced, including the first album (with only a single song?). Nothing in article body about the albums and having reviews from notable reviewers would be helpful to show their work being noticed. There's a lot of passing mentions in the sources, but more is needed and it's just not here from good quality sources.
Ravensfire (
talk) 22:01, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Ravensfire,
- Naushaad Sangeet Samman award is one of the prestigious regional award given by Govt of UP. Renowned and world famous artistes like Ustad Amjad Ali Khan, Kalyanji- Anandji, Khayyam, Pt Shiv Kumar sharma, Hema Malini, Rekha Bhardwaj, Sonu Nigam, Talat Aziz etc have been awarded with this prestigious award. To answer you, yes it is notable enough to meet NBIO/NMUSIC.
- Also as per NMUSIC, At least one of the criteria is sufficient to establish the notability and the source is clearly meeting criteria no 1, 5, 6 and 8.
- Hence meeting WP:MUSICBIO.
- Tell me one singer/musician's Wikipedia where ALL the discography are sourced. Please provide me just one.
- Times of India reference provided where the Padma Vibhushan (The second highest civilian award of India) winner Birju Maharaj praising her albums. In another reference, Indian composer Louis Banks is impressed with the source, her albums and her singing talents.
- So I disagree with your comment - Nothing in article body about the albums and having reviews from notable reviewers would be helpful to show their work being noticed.
- In additional to that, WP: ANYBIO allows that if the depth of the coverage in any of the given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability. I believe there is enough non-trivial mentions to allow for an article on this subject.
-
Risu43 (
talk) 04:23, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
- NMUSIC 1 - maybe, at best. A lot of passing mentions, interviews and fluff which doesn't meet this.
- NMUSIC 5 - not met, no sourced information in article about which label released the albums and some searches suggest the second one is independent. The first has, according to the article, one song - that does not make an album.
- NMUSIC 6 - nothing in article to support this.
- NMUSIC 8 - sorry, a non-notable regional award is NOT a major award at the level listed in the article.
- As NMUSIC notes, meeting the criteria MAY be notable. Taking the article as a whole, it's just not there for this person. And please read WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS - we're talking about this article, and issues with this article, I know quite well there are a lot of other poor quality articles pushed by fans and PR groups associated with artists. Can't fix that here, you're more than welcome to nominate other articles for deletion that you feel aren't up to par. Ravensfire ( talk) 16:48, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde ( Talk) 16:24, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
Comment: I don't know why few people enjoy deleting articles. It's means wasted efforts of author who put hell lots of time on doing the research work on subject, editors and even reviewers. Yeah I understand that crap should be removed but people should not come so hard and show some humility as Wikipedia article is always work-in-progress and never completed. I believe in expanding the Wikipedia with good articles and content. Having said that I like to highlight few things as this is the final listing.
1. WP:MUSICBIO #1 is meeting along with GNG/SIGCOV. Please find the below reliable independent reference which show significant coverage.
2. WP:MUSICBIO #10 and #5: Had sung in movies like Ada... A Way of Life] (music is on Big Music record level) , Hum Bhi Akele Tum Bhi Akele (music on Zee Music Company), Thalaivii (music on T-Series), and few web series like Aspirants, Flames. All these movies and web series are notable and have Wikipedia articles and their music are on renowned music label. Besides she has been a part of few reality show like Sa Re Ga Ma Pa 2012 and MTV Rock On which are again notable and have their Wikipedia page too WP:REALITYSINGER.
3. WP:MUSICBIO 8#: Awarded with Naushaad Sangeet Samman award presented by Department of Culture, Government of Uttar Pradesh. Renowned and world famous artistes like Ustad Amjad Ali Khan, Kalyanji-Anandji, Khayyam, Shivkumar Sharma, Hema Malini, Rekha Bhardwaj, Sonu Nigam, Talat Aziz etc have been awarded with this prestigious award, all being notable and Wikipedia have their pages. According to few editors only music awards like Grammy, Juno, Mercury, Choice or Grammys award are notable, so if that the case then India and many more country don't have any notable music awards..?? I like to bring it to your attention that the awards mentioned above should be treated as an example and not as a final list of music award across global. Naushaad Sangeet Samman award is a notable award and every year more 30-40 independent reliable newspaper cover this award which itself demonstrate the notability.
4. A Google search of the Subject Parul Mishra , shows significant search results. Moreover the subject has been listed on IMDb, Spotify , Apple Music, JioSaavn, Hungama , Wynk. Subject also have a verified Facebook page . All these show some notability.
5. Song listings available on MusicBrainz which again demonstrate some sort of notability as per Resources section in WP:MUSIC.
So as per WP: ANYBIO and WP:NBASIC, combining all these, results in a significant notability, allowing an article on the subject. Risu43 ( talk) 17:39, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Hi. You might want to drop the
WP:STICK, it's not helping your cause.
Onel5969
TT me 22:53, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Hi, I am not saying anything in air. Whatever I have mentioned, I hv cited Wikipedia policy.
- So request you to go through those before voting, be it WP:MUSICBIO #10 or #5.
- And please don't Control+F in the newspaper articles rather try to read the entire content.
Risu43 (
talk) 03:54, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
- Risu43, you do know that practically any artist can get listed on streaming music services even if no one listens to their work. And you can create your own bio on IMDB, I've seen IMDB profiles of a lot of people who have YouTube channels (or "actors" who have no films/TV series listed at all) so it is not evidence of notability either. Liz Read! Talk! 04:31, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
- Delete The award not a notable award. Not sure if it's a state government award either. UP dept of culture has no mention of this award on their website
[1]. It's probably linked to
Awadh Samman (also likely a non-notable award, falsely claiming to be a state government award). Even if it is a government award, it's just a regional award, with no significant coverage. There's nothing else in the article, to establish notability. —
hako9 (
talk) 19:20, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
-
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]
[6]
[7]
[8]
[9]
[10]
[11]
[12] for your reference.
Risu43 (
talk) 10:05, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Getting an award is not tantamount to significant coverage, especially when it is a non-notable award. You can produce a 100 more sources mentioning her getting this award. It would still not warrant an article. —
hako9 (
talk) 15:01, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- I don't see why it is not meeting notability as per
Wikipedia:Notability (awards and medals). Please provide your justification.
Risu43 (
talk) 15:50, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Exclusionary Criteria #3 - The award is granted for promotional reasons by promotional entities.
- Or, if you consider this a government award
- Exclusionary Criteria #4 -The award has been created by a local government and the award is generally unknown outside of that local government's area.
- That essay btw, is relevant for arguing about the notability of the award itself. It is possible that an individual who is granted this non-notable award, may himself/herself be notable for reasons other than being the recipient of this award. In which case, you need to point out why is this individual notable. All you have argued is that she got this award, so she is notable. —
hako9 (
talk) 16:08, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Who is the promotional entities here according to you?
- You can go through the my comment where I presented by argument why she is notable aligned with Wikipedia policy and guidelines and have cited appropriate references. You might have misunderstood brother.
Risu43 (
talk) 16:25, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
Who is the promotional entities here according to you?
The organiser of the Awadh Festival, i.e Hunar Creations Craft Association in this case.You can go through the my comment where I presented by argument why she is notable
I did. Unfortunately, I reached a different conclusion. — hako9 ( talk) 16:54, 11 March 2023 (UTC)- According to the government website reference
[13], the Awadh Mahotsav (Festival) is organised by UP Tourism, UP state cultural department and UPSNA in association with Govt of Uttar Pradesh and Govt of India.
Risu43 (
talk) 17:19, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Is Awadh Sammaan or Naushaad Sammaan, or whatever it's called, even mentioned on
[14] or
[15] ? All of this is a moot point btw. I would still vote delete, in case this is a government recognized award, since it's just a local award. It is
WP:NOTEWORTHY enough to be mentioned in the article, but getting this award doesn't establish notability in itself. —
hako9 (
talk) 17:44, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- I beg to differ here. If a award recognized by a government of a country is not enough to be notable then I have nothing to say. I have already presented my case with proper references, aligned with Wikipedia policy and guideline and combining all the references cited results in a significant notability, allowing an article on the subject as per WPNBasic and WPANYBIO. I took the responsibility of improving this page on time to time base but I am against the deletion of he page. Risu43 ( talk) 17:56, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Is Awadh Sammaan or Naushaad Sammaan, or whatever it's called, even mentioned on
[14] or
[15] ? All of this is a moot point btw. I would still vote delete, in case this is a government recognized award, since it's just a local award. It is
WP:NOTEWORTHY enough to be mentioned in the article, but getting this award doesn't establish notability in itself. —
hako9 (
talk) 17:44, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- According to the government website reference
[13], the Awadh Mahotsav (Festival) is organised by UP Tourism, UP state cultural department and UPSNA in association with Govt of Uttar Pradesh and Govt of India.
Risu43 (
talk) 17:19, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- I don't see why it is not meeting notability as per
Wikipedia:Notability (awards and medals). Please provide your justification.
Risu43 (
talk) 15:50, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Getting an award is not tantamount to significant coverage, especially when it is a non-notable award. You can produce a 100 more sources mentioning her getting this award. It would still not warrant an article. —
hako9 (
talk) 15:01, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
-
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]
[6]
[7]
[8]
[9]
[10]
[11]
[12] for your reference.
Risu43 (
talk) 10:05, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.