- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. North America 1000 14:28, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
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- Musk family ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
After having done a quick scan through of this page and checking sources it seems readily apparent that this article shouldn't really exist. The only content is basically that you'd really expect to find on the "Musk (disambiguation)" page in terms of links to articles of people with the same surname with a short summary. Instead now all you see is only Elon Musk and then a link to this page, just complicating the process and in effect making other articles less prominent artificially.
So far, despite existing for more than a year, there has been little addition of content or subject scope that would necessitate the need for an article on a prominent "family", such as the Kennedys or Bushes for example where the detail of them as families stretches back into the 1800s in terms of family prominence in cultural/political life.
As a result I would suggest that this article be deleted and the list of "notable members" be instead moved to the disambiguation page. Apache287 ( talk) 01:10, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - Move "notable members" to the disambiguation page, per nominator above. This is just a small list of six of Elon's immediate family members, who already have stand-alone articles. There's no reason to have a stand alone list. — Maile ( talk) 02:59, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, South Africa, Canada, and United States of America. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 08:57, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete and moving "notable members" to the disambiguation page would be the best solution. TH1980 ( talk) 02:11, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Agreed with TH1980 - move the blue link members to Musk (disambiguation). Resonant Distortion 15:49, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - Considering that there are 6 notable family members listed, all with articles, I don't see why this should be any less acceptable as an article than Rockefeller family, Kennedy family, Roosevelt family, Cuomo family, Walton family, Bush family or many others. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 18:00, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
- So far, the Musks are only about the current generation. They are wealthy, but nothing suggests they are a dynasty. And other than Elon, their contributions really have no great affect on our culture. The Bush family are a political dynasty whose actions have had impacts on both our economy and our foreign relations, including the responsibility of putting us back on our feet after the 9-11 attacks. The Rockefellers, Kennedys and Roosevelts were dynasties whose individual and collective contributions re-shaped this country and its culture, and in the case of the Kennedys, are still at it. The Roosevelts, collectively and as individuals, changed our culture. It can certainly be argued that America was in such dire straits after the
Wall Street Crash of 1929 that the country was vulnerable to a political overthrow by a foreign government. FDR's four administrations put people to work and moved us forward.
— Maile (
talk)
03:50, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
- There are actually two generations represented with articles, not just one. Jahaza ( talk) 23:10, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
- So far, the Musks are only about the current generation. They are wealthy, but nothing suggests they are a dynasty. And other than Elon, their contributions really have no great affect on our culture. The Bush family are a political dynasty whose actions have had impacts on both our economy and our foreign relations, including the responsibility of putting us back on our feet after the 9-11 attacks. The Rockefellers, Kennedys and Roosevelts were dynasties whose individual and collective contributions re-shaped this country and its culture, and in the case of the Kennedys, are still at it. The Roosevelts, collectively and as individuals, changed our culture. It can certainly be argued that America was in such dire straits after the
Wall Street Crash of 1929 that the country was vulnerable to a political overthrow by a foreign government. FDR's four administrations put people to work and moved us forward.
— Maile (
talk)
03:50, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to Musk (disambiguation) to keep history. Sebbog13 ( talk) 19:00, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. It may end up being a
WP:PERMASTUB, but I think it satisfies
WP:NLIST. There is coverage on
his children (even tho it should largely be excluded for the kids' privacy), or
his parents as part of a family. But generally, there looks to be enough coverage on the family unit to warrant a page. There's some extra info that can't be included in a DAB page, namely the ancestral origins.
SWinxy (
talk)
02:37, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
- Hi, just to say on the ancestral origins there's only one source on that and it's both paywalled and non-English so I can't confirm it. However, before nominating for deletion, there were other claims in that section that turned out all to be non-reliable. So really at most it appears to be a point of trivia than substantial reporting. Apache287 ( talk) 16:52, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. These are the times when I wish I could act on my own opinion but this discussion is clearly divided right now.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:38, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep For better or worse the topic meets GNG or NLIST however you choose to consider the article: [1] [2] [3] — siro χ o 06:21, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to Musk (disambiguation). As it stands, this is superfluous. -- Elmidae ( talk · contribs) 16:53, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
- Rename Musk (surname), add non-family members ( Jack Musk, Simon Musk) and get rid of most of the text? Clarityfiend ( talk) 07:51, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - I don't think it's an issue. Every person here has an article and it seems to be a perfectly valid list. More could be added for each additional family member and more members could be added if that's the concern, but that just needs an improvement tag, not a deletion.
KatoKungLee (
talk)
00:30, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
- The point though is precisely that it's just a list, in which case it'd be better deleted/merged with the disambiguation page unless there's credible attempts to actually improve it into an article on the family proper. Apache287 ( talk) 14:53, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
- Liz, I'm kinda curious on what your opinion is. SWinxy ( talk) 01:56, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
- SWinxy, I have to be careful. When I first started closing AFDs, I could be glib in my closure statement and that got me brought to Deletion Review which is to admins what being called to ANI is to editors. I was accused of "super voting" so it's best to keep my opinions to myself. If I have a strong opinion, I participate in the discussion and don't handle closures. Liz Read! Talk! 06:35, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - I'd like to point out that the reason they had their own family page, just like Bush, Walton, Cuomo family is because they are relatively notable in their own right with well-known connection across mainstream media to deserve such page. HarryAnsyah ( talk) 02:55, 1 August 2023 (UTC) — HarryAnsyah ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. North America 1000 14:28, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Musk family ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
After having done a quick scan through of this page and checking sources it seems readily apparent that this article shouldn't really exist. The only content is basically that you'd really expect to find on the "Musk (disambiguation)" page in terms of links to articles of people with the same surname with a short summary. Instead now all you see is only Elon Musk and then a link to this page, just complicating the process and in effect making other articles less prominent artificially.
So far, despite existing for more than a year, there has been little addition of content or subject scope that would necessitate the need for an article on a prominent "family", such as the Kennedys or Bushes for example where the detail of them as families stretches back into the 1800s in terms of family prominence in cultural/political life.
As a result I would suggest that this article be deleted and the list of "notable members" be instead moved to the disambiguation page. Apache287 ( talk) 01:10, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - Move "notable members" to the disambiguation page, per nominator above. This is just a small list of six of Elon's immediate family members, who already have stand-alone articles. There's no reason to have a stand alone list. — Maile ( talk) 02:59, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, South Africa, Canada, and United States of America. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 08:57, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete and moving "notable members" to the disambiguation page would be the best solution. TH1980 ( talk) 02:11, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Agreed with TH1980 - move the blue link members to Musk (disambiguation). Resonant Distortion 15:49, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - Considering that there are 6 notable family members listed, all with articles, I don't see why this should be any less acceptable as an article than Rockefeller family, Kennedy family, Roosevelt family, Cuomo family, Walton family, Bush family or many others. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 18:00, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
- So far, the Musks are only about the current generation. They are wealthy, but nothing suggests they are a dynasty. And other than Elon, their contributions really have no great affect on our culture. The Bush family are a political dynasty whose actions have had impacts on both our economy and our foreign relations, including the responsibility of putting us back on our feet after the 9-11 attacks. The Rockefellers, Kennedys and Roosevelts were dynasties whose individual and collective contributions re-shaped this country and its culture, and in the case of the Kennedys, are still at it. The Roosevelts, collectively and as individuals, changed our culture. It can certainly be argued that America was in such dire straits after the
Wall Street Crash of 1929 that the country was vulnerable to a political overthrow by a foreign government. FDR's four administrations put people to work and moved us forward.
— Maile (
talk)
03:50, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
- There are actually two generations represented with articles, not just one. Jahaza ( talk) 23:10, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
- So far, the Musks are only about the current generation. They are wealthy, but nothing suggests they are a dynasty. And other than Elon, their contributions really have no great affect on our culture. The Bush family are a political dynasty whose actions have had impacts on both our economy and our foreign relations, including the responsibility of putting us back on our feet after the 9-11 attacks. The Rockefellers, Kennedys and Roosevelts were dynasties whose individual and collective contributions re-shaped this country and its culture, and in the case of the Kennedys, are still at it. The Roosevelts, collectively and as individuals, changed our culture. It can certainly be argued that America was in such dire straits after the
Wall Street Crash of 1929 that the country was vulnerable to a political overthrow by a foreign government. FDR's four administrations put people to work and moved us forward.
— Maile (
talk)
03:50, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to Musk (disambiguation) to keep history. Sebbog13 ( talk) 19:00, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. It may end up being a
WP:PERMASTUB, but I think it satisfies
WP:NLIST. There is coverage on
his children (even tho it should largely be excluded for the kids' privacy), or
his parents as part of a family. But generally, there looks to be enough coverage on the family unit to warrant a page. There's some extra info that can't be included in a DAB page, namely the ancestral origins.
SWinxy (
talk)
02:37, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
- Hi, just to say on the ancestral origins there's only one source on that and it's both paywalled and non-English so I can't confirm it. However, before nominating for deletion, there were other claims in that section that turned out all to be non-reliable. So really at most it appears to be a point of trivia than substantial reporting. Apache287 ( talk) 16:52, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. These are the times when I wish I could act on my own opinion but this discussion is clearly divided right now.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:38, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep For better or worse the topic meets GNG or NLIST however you choose to consider the article: [1] [2] [3] — siro χ o 06:21, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to Musk (disambiguation). As it stands, this is superfluous. -- Elmidae ( talk · contribs) 16:53, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
- Rename Musk (surname), add non-family members ( Jack Musk, Simon Musk) and get rid of most of the text? Clarityfiend ( talk) 07:51, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - I don't think it's an issue. Every person here has an article and it seems to be a perfectly valid list. More could be added for each additional family member and more members could be added if that's the concern, but that just needs an improvement tag, not a deletion.
KatoKungLee (
talk)
00:30, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
- The point though is precisely that it's just a list, in which case it'd be better deleted/merged with the disambiguation page unless there's credible attempts to actually improve it into an article on the family proper. Apache287 ( talk) 14:53, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
- Liz, I'm kinda curious on what your opinion is. SWinxy ( talk) 01:56, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
- SWinxy, I have to be careful. When I first started closing AFDs, I could be glib in my closure statement and that got me brought to Deletion Review which is to admins what being called to ANI is to editors. I was accused of "super voting" so it's best to keep my opinions to myself. If I have a strong opinion, I participate in the discussion and don't handle closures. Liz Read! Talk! 06:35, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - I'd like to point out that the reason they had their own family page, just like Bush, Walton, Cuomo family is because they are relatively notable in their own right with well-known connection across mainstream media to deserve such page. HarryAnsyah ( talk) 02:55, 1 August 2023 (UTC) — HarryAnsyah ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.