- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Press Your Luck scandal. I see a rough consensus that these two articles should be Merged. I've seen hundreds of AFDs at this point and have never seen one closed as a "reverse merge" as the target article would have to be tagged, the creator notified and be included in an AFD nomination. Once this AFD is closed, the scope of a Merge can be discussed on the article talk page. Liz Read! Talk! 01:19, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
Michael Larson
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- Michael Larson ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
WP:BLP1E. Jax 0677 ( talk) 23:02, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
- Merge with
Press Your Luck scandal. Per
WP:BLP1EWP:BIO1E there should not be two separate articles. Walsh90210 ( talk) 00:28, 22 June 2024 (UTC) - Redirect as all of the reliable sources and verifiable content at Michael Larson has already been incorporated into Press Your Luck scandal. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 00:37, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
keep BLP1E does not apply. He is not alive. And the article has substantial information about him beyond his winning strategy. JoshuaZ ( talk) 01:29, 22 June 2024 (UTC)An additional comment: Since Jax 0677 has decided in a somewhat idiosyncratic way to express skepticism about the above (see edit history of this page), I'll note that the article has a whole section titled "Later life, death, and legacy." JoshuaZ ( talk) 02:17, 22 June 2024 (UTC)Changing opinion to redirect. Fourthords's comments below are convincing. JoshuaZ ( talk) 16:18, 22 June 2024 (UTC)- I assumed the nominator meant WP:BIO1E, which does apply. Also, all of this article's verifiable content (including the 11% not stemming from the PYL event) is already to be found at the article about the overall event— Press Your Luck scandal. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 02:53, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television, Crime, Games, Florida, and Ohio. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:33, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Press Your Luck scandal, if only because there's little left to merge. The history may be useful for attribution purposes, though, and keeping the history around is useful for tracking how we wrote about this subject years in the past. As for Larson's article, it's now redundant to the scandal article. - BRAINULATOR9 ( TALK) 19:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- Merge. I mean, it was already merged in practice, but still.
PARAKANYAA (
talk)
12:21, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- Reply - I am OK with a merge or redirect. -- Jax 0677 ( talk) 23:29, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Whatever is done here, please remember to move
Michael Larson (disambiguation) to the title,
Michael Larson, when this is all over.
BD2412
T
16:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- No, Michael Larson would continue to be a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT, unless you want to open an RFD. 162 etc. ( talk) 20:59, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- Reverse merge and redirect Press Your Luck scandal to Michael Larson. (This concern is slightly lessened if the article moves from its current POV title, but that's being argued in a RM currently, and I'd still prefer the reverse merge.) It doesn't make much sense to have two separate articles, yes, but this is the more relevant article and the better title. This is not a BIO1E case, this was actually the more notable article if only one is kept - see arguments in the earlier RM discussion. Many sources discuss the topic simply by Michael Larson's name and not by the episode or by "scandal", e.g. [1]. SnowFire ( talk) 05:46, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, '''[[ User:CanonNi]]''' ( talk • contribs) 03:04, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- Merge with Press Your Luck scandal. Just finished reading the scandal article. All the pertinent information is there. — Maile ( talk) 13:40, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: Sourcing seems fine, it's in older sources but talks about this person. Bit of a scandal later in life, but he's notable for the win on the show and what happened after. Oaktree b ( talk) 16:19, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep and merge
Press Your Luck scandal back in, per
SnowFire. A
RM to move "Michael Larson" to "Press Your Luck scandal" was closed as "not moved". This whole "write a content fork, then nominate the old article for deletion" strategy feels like an end-run around that RM.
Sceptre (
talk)
02:43, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- As the extant article was and is an
over-detailed
pseudo-biography containing
original research and
un- and mis-sourced claims about someone
notable for only one event, I began writing the event-based article on or before 2 Feb 2023 (per the cited sources in the
original version of the article. The request to move the BIO1E was instigated at 15:54 UTC on 22 March 2024 by
TenPoundHammer (
talk ·
contribs), by which time I had been writing the event article for at least thirteen months, even saying in that very discussion,
I began writing a Press Your Luck scandal from whole cloth to ensure 100% citation to reliable sources. I'm seven (of 22) sources deep in it right now, and was probably going to spend another month or so before ready to bring live.
Furthermore, this AFD was begun by Jax 0677 ( talk · contribs). Given all this, I'm unsure how any involved editor can be so plainly accused of what you claim. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 03:25, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- As the extant article was and is an
over-detailed
pseudo-biography containing
original research and
un- and mis-sourced claims about someone
notable for only one event, I began writing the event-based article on or before 2 Feb 2023 (per the cited sources in the
original version of the article. The request to move the BIO1E was instigated at 15:54 UTC on 22 March 2024 by
TenPoundHammer (
talk ·
contribs), by which time I had been writing the event article for at least thirteen months, even saying in that very discussion,
- Merge Sourcing is fine and meets our inclusion guidelines. Coverage is over a wide enough time WP:BLP1E doesn't really apply. But I think the material is better covered by us as an event article rather than a BLP. Hobit ( talk) 17:56, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Press Your Luck scandal. I see a rough consensus that these two articles should be Merged. I've seen hundreds of AFDs at this point and have never seen one closed as a "reverse merge" as the target article would have to be tagged, the creator notified and be included in an AFD nomination. Once this AFD is closed, the scope of a Merge can be discussed on the article talk page. Liz Read! Talk! 01:19, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
Michael Larson
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Michael Larson ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
WP:BLP1E. Jax 0677 ( talk) 23:02, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
- Merge with
Press Your Luck scandal. Per
WP:BLP1EWP:BIO1E there should not be two separate articles. Walsh90210 ( talk) 00:28, 22 June 2024 (UTC) - Redirect as all of the reliable sources and verifiable content at Michael Larson has already been incorporated into Press Your Luck scandal. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 00:37, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
keep BLP1E does not apply. He is not alive. And the article has substantial information about him beyond his winning strategy. JoshuaZ ( talk) 01:29, 22 June 2024 (UTC)An additional comment: Since Jax 0677 has decided in a somewhat idiosyncratic way to express skepticism about the above (see edit history of this page), I'll note that the article has a whole section titled "Later life, death, and legacy." JoshuaZ ( talk) 02:17, 22 June 2024 (UTC)Changing opinion to redirect. Fourthords's comments below are convincing. JoshuaZ ( talk) 16:18, 22 June 2024 (UTC)- I assumed the nominator meant WP:BIO1E, which does apply. Also, all of this article's verifiable content (including the 11% not stemming from the PYL event) is already to be found at the article about the overall event— Press Your Luck scandal. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 02:53, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television, Crime, Games, Florida, and Ohio. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:33, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Press Your Luck scandal, if only because there's little left to merge. The history may be useful for attribution purposes, though, and keeping the history around is useful for tracking how we wrote about this subject years in the past. As for Larson's article, it's now redundant to the scandal article. - BRAINULATOR9 ( TALK) 19:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- Merge. I mean, it was already merged in practice, but still.
PARAKANYAA (
talk)
12:21, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- Reply - I am OK with a merge or redirect. -- Jax 0677 ( talk) 23:29, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Whatever is done here, please remember to move
Michael Larson (disambiguation) to the title,
Michael Larson, when this is all over.
BD2412
T
16:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- No, Michael Larson would continue to be a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT, unless you want to open an RFD. 162 etc. ( talk) 20:59, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- Reverse merge and redirect Press Your Luck scandal to Michael Larson. (This concern is slightly lessened if the article moves from its current POV title, but that's being argued in a RM currently, and I'd still prefer the reverse merge.) It doesn't make much sense to have two separate articles, yes, but this is the more relevant article and the better title. This is not a BIO1E case, this was actually the more notable article if only one is kept - see arguments in the earlier RM discussion. Many sources discuss the topic simply by Michael Larson's name and not by the episode or by "scandal", e.g. [1]. SnowFire ( talk) 05:46, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, '''[[ User:CanonNi]]''' ( talk • contribs) 03:04, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- Merge with Press Your Luck scandal. Just finished reading the scandal article. All the pertinent information is there. — Maile ( talk) 13:40, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: Sourcing seems fine, it's in older sources but talks about this person. Bit of a scandal later in life, but he's notable for the win on the show and what happened after. Oaktree b ( talk) 16:19, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep and merge
Press Your Luck scandal back in, per
SnowFire. A
RM to move "Michael Larson" to "Press Your Luck scandal" was closed as "not moved". This whole "write a content fork, then nominate the old article for deletion" strategy feels like an end-run around that RM.
Sceptre (
talk)
02:43, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- As the extant article was and is an
over-detailed
pseudo-biography containing
original research and
un- and mis-sourced claims about someone
notable for only one event, I began writing the event-based article on or before 2 Feb 2023 (per the cited sources in the
original version of the article. The request to move the BIO1E was instigated at 15:54 UTC on 22 March 2024 by
TenPoundHammer (
talk ·
contribs), by which time I had been writing the event article for at least thirteen months, even saying in that very discussion,
I began writing a Press Your Luck scandal from whole cloth to ensure 100% citation to reliable sources. I'm seven (of 22) sources deep in it right now, and was probably going to spend another month or so before ready to bring live.
Furthermore, this AFD was begun by Jax 0677 ( talk · contribs). Given all this, I'm unsure how any involved editor can be so plainly accused of what you claim. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 03:25, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- As the extant article was and is an
over-detailed
pseudo-biography containing
original research and
un- and mis-sourced claims about someone
notable for only one event, I began writing the event-based article on or before 2 Feb 2023 (per the cited sources in the
original version of the article. The request to move the BIO1E was instigated at 15:54 UTC on 22 March 2024 by
TenPoundHammer (
talk ·
contribs), by which time I had been writing the event article for at least thirteen months, even saying in that very discussion,
- Merge Sourcing is fine and meets our inclusion guidelines. Coverage is over a wide enough time WP:BLP1E doesn't really apply. But I think the material is better covered by us as an event article rather than a BLP. Hobit ( talk) 17:56, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.