- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete with the option to userfy if someone is interested. Vanamonde ( Talk) 06:50, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
- Nobody ever returned the page to my userspace for updating pending reinstatement, as I requested at the end of the deletion discussion. Lulu Sun has now fulfilled one of the tennis notability requirements by winning her first ITF 60K title, and will add a second on Monday or Tuesday when she plays her first round match at the WTA 250 tournament in Rabat, Morocco.
- I therefore request that the page be restored, as the lack of notability was the only reason for the deletion. Yetanotherkiwi ( talk) 12:14, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Lulu Sun ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Looks to fail WP:NTENNIS upon checking player pages linked in article. Review of other sources show WP:GNG is not met. ~ BlueTurtles | talk 03:51, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. – Lord Bolingbroke ( talk) 04:55, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Tennis-related deletion discussions. – Lord Bolingbroke ( talk) 04:55, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Switzerland-related deletion discussions. – Lord Bolingbroke ( talk) 04:55, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 06:35, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. W C M email 07:28, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
- Comment The article have some coverage, like this https://texassports.com/news/2021/7/11/womens-tennis-lulu-sun-wins-itf-25k-lisbon-singles-title.aspx And also, her stats can be found on https://www.itftennis.com/en/players/lulu-sun/800401004/sui/wt/s/overview/ Oloriebi 08:05, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Could you please advise WHY you think that this particular page should be deleted. You've written "...am not sure that it is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia in its current form." What changes do you believe need to be made to make it suitable (assuming that you have something in mind other than the notability guidelines)? Lulu Sun has at least been a junior Grand Slam runner-up. She has also won multiple ITF 25K titles, and is this year's NCAA tennis doubles champion (although I haven't yet added those details into the article). These credentials far exceed many other tennis players who have articles about them in Wikipedia. It would seem pointless to delete this article, only to reinstate it in (for example) three months after she competes in a tournament that qualifies her under the notability guidelines (she has already played in two WTA 125K events). I would also point out that she has a page in the German Wikipedia which considerably predates the one I created in the English version.
Yetanotherkiwi (
talk)
07:27, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Yetanotherkiwi, apologies for the automated vague notice that was generated on your talk page. I've nominated the page to be deleted based on the notability guidelines of English Wikipedia, specifically, for tennis players that would be WP:NTENNIS. The linked article has 6 criteria for tennis players to meet to be notable enough for a page. To note, she would need to win a 50/100k ITF title or an 125K WTA title which has not occurred yet. To not lose your progress in the article, you can request for the article to be undeleted when she meets the threshold or work on it in your userspace for the time being.
- In regards to a page on German Wikipedia, I'm unfamiliar with their notability guidelines but I would note that each language Wikipedia project has different criteria and guidelines for notability. Hopefully this clarifies your questions. Thanks, ~
BlueTurtles |
talk
08:37, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
BlueTurtles: While I appreciate your position, she doesn't have to win a 50K+ tournament - she also meets the guidelines if she plays in the main draw of a WTA International (or higher) level tournament. Are you restricting your suggested page deletion to Lulu Sun, or are you suggesting that other pages about different tennis players also be deleted? There are literally hundreds of other players with pages who, on this basis, are even less worthy than Lulu Sun to be recognised by Wikipedia. However, by having a Wikipedia page, anyone with an interest in that player can find their most relevant details in one place. It's a public service that is much appreciated by anyone who uses Wikipedia on a regular basis. Even though those pages may also fall short of being "worthy" if the criteria are being strictly adhered to, what is the point of deleting such pages if they otherwise comply completely with Wikipedia's terms and conditions?
Yetanotherkiwi (
talk)
09:57, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
Yetanotherkiwi, could you provide me with a link to Lulu Sun playing in the main draw of a WTA International or higher level tournament? I was unable to find one (only WTA125). Also, note that page deletions are considered on a case by case basis, I've only nominated this because I happened to find it. ~
BlueTurtles |
talk
10:40, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
BlueTurtles:She hasn't YET played in the main draw at a higher level than WTA125. While I appreciate that deletions are considered on a case by case basis, you also need to be seen to be consistent. If you want to delete this page you need to put up every other similar page for consideration as well. Just because you "happened to find it" doesn't seem like a compelling reason to nominate the page for deletion. I consider that the combination of her junior career, ITF 25K performances AND her NCAA title, taken in totality, make her notable enough for her page to continue to exist.
Yetanotherkiwi (
talk)
17:24, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
Yetanotherkiwi, please see
WP:WHATABOUTX and
WP:ALLORNOTHING in regards to consistency and drawing comparisons to other articles. Any articles that don't seem to meet notability guidelines can be nominated for deletion. ~
BlueTurtles |
talk
03:06, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
- @ BlueTurtles: If the decision is made to delete the article, I would like it transferred to my userspace to be kept pending resubmission once any of the notability guidelines have been met. I don't want to spend hours recreating the page from scratch once this happens. Yetanotherkiwi ( talk) 12:39, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
Yetanotherkiwi, please see
WP:WHATABOUTX and
WP:ALLORNOTHING in regards to consistency and drawing comparisons to other articles. Any articles that don't seem to meet notability guidelines can be nominated for deletion. ~
BlueTurtles |
talk
03:06, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
BlueTurtles:She hasn't YET played in the main draw at a higher level than WTA125. While I appreciate that deletions are considered on a case by case basis, you also need to be seen to be consistent. If you want to delete this page you need to put up every other similar page for consideration as well. Just because you "happened to find it" doesn't seem like a compelling reason to nominate the page for deletion. I consider that the combination of her junior career, ITF 25K performances AND her NCAA title, taken in totality, make her notable enough for her page to continue to exist.
Yetanotherkiwi (
talk)
17:24, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
Yetanotherkiwi, could you provide me with a link to Lulu Sun playing in the main draw of a WTA International or higher level tournament? I was unable to find one (only WTA125). Also, note that page deletions are considered on a case by case basis, I've only nominated this because I happened to find it. ~
BlueTurtles |
talk
10:40, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
BlueTurtles: While I appreciate your position, she doesn't have to win a 50K+ tournament - she also meets the guidelines if she plays in the main draw of a WTA International (or higher) level tournament. Are you restricting your suggested page deletion to Lulu Sun, or are you suggesting that other pages about different tennis players also be deleted? There are literally hundreds of other players with pages who, on this basis, are even less worthy than Lulu Sun to be recognised by Wikipedia. However, by having a Wikipedia page, anyone with an interest in that player can find their most relevant details in one place. It's a public service that is much appreciated by anyone who uses Wikipedia on a regular basis. Even though those pages may also fall short of being "worthy" if the criteria are being strictly adhered to, what is the point of deleting such pages if they otherwise comply completely with Wikipedia's terms and conditions?
Yetanotherkiwi (
talk)
09:57, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
🌀
Locomotive207-
talk
🌀
01:53, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- Userfy to allow Yetanotherkiwi (or other interested editors) to keep working on the article until notability can be established via WP:NTENNIS or WP:GNG. This could be a WP:TOOSOON case, or it could be a case where a tennis player is good but not quite good enough; only time will tell. Iffy★ Chat -- 10:19, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete with the option to userfy if someone is interested. Vanamonde ( Talk) 06:50, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
- Nobody ever returned the page to my userspace for updating pending reinstatement, as I requested at the end of the deletion discussion. Lulu Sun has now fulfilled one of the tennis notability requirements by winning her first ITF 60K title, and will add a second on Monday or Tuesday when she plays her first round match at the WTA 250 tournament in Rabat, Morocco.
- I therefore request that the page be restored, as the lack of notability was the only reason for the deletion. Yetanotherkiwi ( talk) 12:14, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Lulu Sun ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Looks to fail WP:NTENNIS upon checking player pages linked in article. Review of other sources show WP:GNG is not met. ~ BlueTurtles | talk 03:51, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. – Lord Bolingbroke ( talk) 04:55, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Tennis-related deletion discussions. – Lord Bolingbroke ( talk) 04:55, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Switzerland-related deletion discussions. – Lord Bolingbroke ( talk) 04:55, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 06:35, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. W C M email 07:28, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
- Comment The article have some coverage, like this https://texassports.com/news/2021/7/11/womens-tennis-lulu-sun-wins-itf-25k-lisbon-singles-title.aspx And also, her stats can be found on https://www.itftennis.com/en/players/lulu-sun/800401004/sui/wt/s/overview/ Oloriebi 08:05, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Could you please advise WHY you think that this particular page should be deleted. You've written "...am not sure that it is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia in its current form." What changes do you believe need to be made to make it suitable (assuming that you have something in mind other than the notability guidelines)? Lulu Sun has at least been a junior Grand Slam runner-up. She has also won multiple ITF 25K titles, and is this year's NCAA tennis doubles champion (although I haven't yet added those details into the article). These credentials far exceed many other tennis players who have articles about them in Wikipedia. It would seem pointless to delete this article, only to reinstate it in (for example) three months after she competes in a tournament that qualifies her under the notability guidelines (she has already played in two WTA 125K events). I would also point out that she has a page in the German Wikipedia which considerably predates the one I created in the English version.
Yetanotherkiwi (
talk)
07:27, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Yetanotherkiwi, apologies for the automated vague notice that was generated on your talk page. I've nominated the page to be deleted based on the notability guidelines of English Wikipedia, specifically, for tennis players that would be WP:NTENNIS. The linked article has 6 criteria for tennis players to meet to be notable enough for a page. To note, she would need to win a 50/100k ITF title or an 125K WTA title which has not occurred yet. To not lose your progress in the article, you can request for the article to be undeleted when she meets the threshold or work on it in your userspace for the time being.
- In regards to a page on German Wikipedia, I'm unfamiliar with their notability guidelines but I would note that each language Wikipedia project has different criteria and guidelines for notability. Hopefully this clarifies your questions. Thanks, ~
BlueTurtles |
talk
08:37, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
BlueTurtles: While I appreciate your position, she doesn't have to win a 50K+ tournament - she also meets the guidelines if she plays in the main draw of a WTA International (or higher) level tournament. Are you restricting your suggested page deletion to Lulu Sun, or are you suggesting that other pages about different tennis players also be deleted? There are literally hundreds of other players with pages who, on this basis, are even less worthy than Lulu Sun to be recognised by Wikipedia. However, by having a Wikipedia page, anyone with an interest in that player can find their most relevant details in one place. It's a public service that is much appreciated by anyone who uses Wikipedia on a regular basis. Even though those pages may also fall short of being "worthy" if the criteria are being strictly adhered to, what is the point of deleting such pages if they otherwise comply completely with Wikipedia's terms and conditions?
Yetanotherkiwi (
talk)
09:57, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
Yetanotherkiwi, could you provide me with a link to Lulu Sun playing in the main draw of a WTA International or higher level tournament? I was unable to find one (only WTA125). Also, note that page deletions are considered on a case by case basis, I've only nominated this because I happened to find it. ~
BlueTurtles |
talk
10:40, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
BlueTurtles:She hasn't YET played in the main draw at a higher level than WTA125. While I appreciate that deletions are considered on a case by case basis, you also need to be seen to be consistent. If you want to delete this page you need to put up every other similar page for consideration as well. Just because you "happened to find it" doesn't seem like a compelling reason to nominate the page for deletion. I consider that the combination of her junior career, ITF 25K performances AND her NCAA title, taken in totality, make her notable enough for her page to continue to exist.
Yetanotherkiwi (
talk)
17:24, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
Yetanotherkiwi, please see
WP:WHATABOUTX and
WP:ALLORNOTHING in regards to consistency and drawing comparisons to other articles. Any articles that don't seem to meet notability guidelines can be nominated for deletion. ~
BlueTurtles |
talk
03:06, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
- @ BlueTurtles: If the decision is made to delete the article, I would like it transferred to my userspace to be kept pending resubmission once any of the notability guidelines have been met. I don't want to spend hours recreating the page from scratch once this happens. Yetanotherkiwi ( talk) 12:39, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
Yetanotherkiwi, please see
WP:WHATABOUTX and
WP:ALLORNOTHING in regards to consistency and drawing comparisons to other articles. Any articles that don't seem to meet notability guidelines can be nominated for deletion. ~
BlueTurtles |
talk
03:06, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
BlueTurtles:She hasn't YET played in the main draw at a higher level than WTA125. While I appreciate that deletions are considered on a case by case basis, you also need to be seen to be consistent. If you want to delete this page you need to put up every other similar page for consideration as well. Just because you "happened to find it" doesn't seem like a compelling reason to nominate the page for deletion. I consider that the combination of her junior career, ITF 25K performances AND her NCAA title, taken in totality, make her notable enough for her page to continue to exist.
Yetanotherkiwi (
talk)
17:24, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
Yetanotherkiwi, could you provide me with a link to Lulu Sun playing in the main draw of a WTA International or higher level tournament? I was unable to find one (only WTA125). Also, note that page deletions are considered on a case by case basis, I've only nominated this because I happened to find it. ~
BlueTurtles |
talk
10:40, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
- @
BlueTurtles: While I appreciate your position, she doesn't have to win a 50K+ tournament - she also meets the guidelines if she plays in the main draw of a WTA International (or higher) level tournament. Are you restricting your suggested page deletion to Lulu Sun, or are you suggesting that other pages about different tennis players also be deleted? There are literally hundreds of other players with pages who, on this basis, are even less worthy than Lulu Sun to be recognised by Wikipedia. However, by having a Wikipedia page, anyone with an interest in that player can find their most relevant details in one place. It's a public service that is much appreciated by anyone who uses Wikipedia on a regular basis. Even though those pages may also fall short of being "worthy" if the criteria are being strictly adhered to, what is the point of deleting such pages if they otherwise comply completely with Wikipedia's terms and conditions?
Yetanotherkiwi (
talk)
09:57, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
🌀
Locomotive207-
talk
🌀
01:53, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- Userfy to allow Yetanotherkiwi (or other interested editors) to keep working on the article until notability can be established via WP:NTENNIS or WP:GNG. This could be a WP:TOOSOON case, or it could be a case where a tennis player is good but not quite good enough; only time will tell. Iffy★ Chat -- 10:19, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.